One thing we didn’t touch on in this video: the environmental impact of each jacket. For many years, companies have used long-chain fluorocarbon-based treatments for DWR. While super effective and highly durable, the by-product of this type of DWR is toxic and persists in the environment. Companies like Patagonia have been searching for alternatives, but as of yet the best bet is a slightly altered version of this treatment that’s more environmentally friendly, though far from perfect. The alternative to DWR would be a non-woven jacket like the Frogg Toggs - but non-woven materials are WAY less durable than woven, and so the entire jacket winds up in the landfill far sooner. Also not environmentally friendly. If this has you feeling bummed out, don’t be. Outdoor companies are investing heavily in research into better DWR treatments. In the meantime, just care for your gear and patch it as needed - regardless of which jacket you buy.
Wouldn't another reason for the price difference be Patagonia's commitment to fair trade labor practices causing a significant increase off the price to manufacture? A major plus, in my opinion!
please do not buy new waterproof clothing from patagonia, if anything, look for a used one or get stuff from companies that do not use 'forever chemicals' (PFCs) which are cancerogenic
@@elizabethdodson8691 That might be a factor, but I think the brand name is really the issue... If Patagonia sold air there'd be a least a 40% markup over other _air sellers._
A couple things I use in addition to a nice rain jacket is unlined non-insulating rain mitts (if it's cold and my gloves are in danger of soaking through), with or without insulating gloves under them, and a billed cap for keeping rain off my glasses. When it's warmer, I find the hood acts like a sweat box, and I get much better ventilation if I keep the hood down and put on a rain hat instead. Yes, that is extra pieces of gear but they do make the rain hiking experience far less miserable for me, and I recommend everyone give them a shot if they can.
Plus one for using a hat in the rain! I pretty much always hike with a hat anyway, so it’s not any extra weight for me anyway. Even with it being a goretex hat, I’ve never had any times where it’s been too hot to wear.
I've known Frogg Togg to run large because it was to be more accommodating to more bulkier clothing, under the shell. This worked well for me when riding a motor cycle with thicker, more-protective clothing.
I think it is worth mentioning the Patagonia warranty. I had a 10yr old Patagonia rain coat that started to delaminate after very light use - I live in San Diego. That jacket lost its ability to repel water so I ordered an on sale Columbia jacket for around $20. The Columbia jacket kept the rain off but it felt like wearing a trash bag. Fabric was not breathable and it did not have the pit zips - it did have wrist velcros and pockets... so maybe a better choice than the Frogg Toggs. But then, on a whim, I reached out to Patagonia, who gave me a $200ish credit for my old jacket. They apologized for the failure of their product (even though it was over 10 years old), and I got an new Patagonia rain jacket. Put that thing to good use over the 2022/2023 San Diego record wet winter and I can absolutely say that it is worth the money! This falls into the buy it for life category for me and it is infinitely more comfortable doing things like taking the pup for a walk on those rainy days! Environmental impact aside, a breathable rain jacket is a real quality of life improvement. Here's to hoping the future leads to more environmentally conscious breathable waterproof fabrics.
I was gonna call BS on the "light use" until I saw you copped that you went through the Amazonian rainforest conditions of San Diego this year. Seattle has NOTHIN on us. I just argued above that this was a great company and not like the NIKE's out there. You just put the nail in the coffin on that one. That makes you a customer for life...good on them.
I had a similar, but negative experience with Patagonia warranty on their toreent shell H2No jacket that delaminated. After the fabric wouldn't hold the water and weird stains appeared on the inside, I contacted Patagonia and they've acknowledged the known delamination issue. Instead of offering me a new jacket, they asked for the copy of original receipt. That was unexpected, and after I couldn't find it, they offered me a gift certificate in the lowest amount that this jacket was ever sold (probably at the end of the season) - $68. That certificate was only goid at their stores. The only decent thing I was able to buy with that amount, after adding $10 of my own money is a himing shirt(which I love btw). Needless to say, I never bought another Patagonia item and switched to Arc'teryx whose warranty and support has been awesome.
I just got a brand new Slate Sky in Wavy blue in a medium.. I had a five year old Rainshadow I got in large and was always to big. They actually send me a label to return my Rainshadow. Upon receipt they were like pick any other rain jacket $200 or less and we got you. I seriously paid nothing. $200 for two professional jackets. The customer service was amazing, better than Apple. Just buy Patagonia with one caveat. They make clothing for lanky people like the girl here in the video (she’s not exactly lanky) I am however. Amy cousin who’s kinda bigger seems to not dig Patagonia and I think it’s the slimmer/trimmer fit. Columbia makes great cheaper rain year if you’re a big dude. The watertight II is great for light rain. Anyways.
Pit zips are so underrated! Idaho is beautiful. We miss the Miranda bloopers at the end of your videos! I love my basic Marmot Precip. Maybe a follow-up video on how to care for your rain jacket (or waterproof gear)? Specific washes to use, causes for delamination, etc. Nothing worse than pulling your rain jacket out of the closet and have it literally be falling apart and flaking. Great video Miranda and Team!
Thirding the excellence of the Precip. I'm fat and my Precip Eco is a 2X, but it only weighs 8.7oz, so the difference between that and the Frogg Toggs is ridiculously minimal.
Marmot precip is a great middle ground. It’s packable (light), has full features (hood stuffs into collar, pit zips, adjustable sleeves and hood, etc), waterproof, and inexpensive. You can usually find these of clearance somewhere for about $60.
I have both a Frog Toggs and a high end rain jacket; love them both. Which one goes depends on forecast. Frog Toggs biggest shortcoming is lack of ventilation. However, don't sell the water proofing short as I have tested mine in shower and stayed totally dry.
In terms of lasting for years: I bought my Torrentshell in 2016, and worn it lots. I've washed and renewed the DWR a handful of times, but otherwise no issues whatsoever. it's great.
@@peaksandpaws wash the jacket with soap flakes (or Nikwax Tech Wash), rinse, then wash it again with Nikwax TX Direct. I'll say to mind your expectations though. It'll never be as good as it was from the factory now. Say what you like about PFCs (they're really bad, no doubt), but modern DWRs just aren't as good.
I'm still wearing my Early Winters GoreTex shell from 198X. I just touch it up with DWR every Fall. Wear it skiing, climbing, hiking, winter backpacking. Summertime rainwear is a poncho, also used as a tarp to sleep under, it's more effective in PNW non-winter weather.
I have used the Frogg Togg poncho for years. Also I survived a hurricane with it and used it as a slight extra insulation during a snow storm. It does require some gentle care. As a side I also had a high end rain jacket. So my conclusion is to get both. The light weight for ul backpacking and the other one for no worries backpacking.
I bought the Torrentshell last year after doing a ton of research, wanting to get a good, durable rain jacket that would work for daily life and outdoor adventures. It was only around $150 when I bought it so a bit less expensive and so far I have loved it! A great feature that Miranda didn’t mention is it zips into its own pocket for easy storage!
I recently bought the torrent shell after hiking with a cheaper rain jacket for years. My first hike with the torrent shell I discovered what it feels like to be dry. 😂 I'm also in the PNW with its 6 months of rain.
I love the torrentshell! I’ve worn it skiing and stayed super warm, I’ve worn it during downpours and stayed totally dry, and I’ve worn it rowing out in the rain and the pit zips helped me keep from overheating! It’s definitely expensive, but my parents got it for me as a Christmas gift which was awesome
The regular Frogg Toggs is the way to go in my opinion. I have the OR Helium that I always take backpacking and will always take until it fails one day. I just spent so much on the OR I'm taking it. It does pack down a lot smaller than the Toggs but I keep it on the outside of the pack anyway so size doesn't matter. If you don't have the money to blow just buy the Frogg Toggs. Many through hikers have backpacked an entire through hikes with it, with a few patch jobs but still.
OR Helium (and Outdoor Research products in general) beats Patagonia in all ways. But one thing that is especially important for me - it's quiet. Torentshell and Precip were both driving me crazy because of how squicky and loud are they
I actually just got the Torrentshell in November! I haven't spent a long time out in it but I have been out fairly briefly in very heavy rain and I stayed nice and dry without the sweaty dampness I get from my Gore-Tex jacket. My family and I have also had Frogg Togg rain suits for many years! They mostly live in our camping kit so they're always handy, but we also take them on hikes because they're lightweight and wonderfully effective. We've had the same suits for multiple years and its true they do have some small tears, but they're ungodly ugly anyway so that doesn't matter much - most of our holes are in spots where the rain doesnt cause much issue. We have like XL or 2XL and they're massively oversized so I haven't had the shallow hood issue; if anything the hood is always falling over your face. We cut the bottoms off of the pants too. All that is to say, Frogg Toggs aren't pretty, but they're fantastic for what they are - cheap, effective, and truly waterproof - but of course there are downsides to anything so cheap!
As you say, I always carry the Frogg Toggs rain jacket at the bottom if my packs as emergency gear when rain is unlikely or insignificant. It’s light, compacts well, and is cheap. I save my higher quality jackets - heavier and bulkier - for hikes and backpacks where rain and snow are likely to be serious. That has worked well for my 50 years of hiking and backpacking, although years ago I carried a cheap poncho for situations where my Frogg Toggs now suffices.
'Some of the worst hiking weather that you can possibly experience'- Cuts to literally every hike I've had the UK xD . If you wanna test out your rain gear, get yourself to Wales, rain is almost as garunteed as daylight!
Brother we feel you up in Seattle lmao. I ride MTB and hike year round. You absolutely need to spend up on quality gear to enjoy it year round. But once you get your setup dialed in it can almost be more enjoyable at times. That feeling of being the only one at a beautiful viewpoint that's normally busy in the summer is awesome.
Torrentshell is a jacket that I could recommend if you only want one that works in most occasions and holds up for years. I really like my torrentshell for downpours, icy rain and wet snowfall. It is my go-to for worst weather. And pit zips are awesome. But, if the weather is milder and not much chance of hours of rain or snowstorms, a lighter jacket like frogg togs would be nicer to carry around "just in case".
I have both the REI Rainier and the Marmot Precip. They work great for western Oregon weather and pack down small enough to toss in any bag, including my fishing kit, and I spent less than $75 for each.
Headed to Alaska, researching outerwear for rain. Frogg Toggs are on my list but this video makes me rethink it, I definitely love me some pockets!! May have time to add some in, as I’m a pretty good seamstress.
Miranda .. you are a breath of fresh air for your generation. I am impressed you have found your niche in the world which shares your love for the outdoors. The positively joyous presentation of your material is endearing. People in so many different ways can be a voice of their generation .. and you are someone not only who I follow, but also my daughter and granddaughter.
I have the frogg togg xtreme lite and I find it to be a pretty good middle road for a budget rain jacket. It usually costs around $50, but you get something more durable and light weight, and it has pockets which one of them acts as a stuff pocket. Mine hasn't gone through a full season of hiking/backpacking, but I am finding it to be a nice addition to my layering system, despite there being the same issue with breathability as the cheaper model.
Worth checking out the frogg toggs Xtreme lite jacket. More durable, better featured like pockets and peaked hood and better fitting as well as lighter than the usual one but with all the same benefits. If it had pit zips it would be pretty much perfect.
Awesome video! Would have loved to see a middle of the road jacket tested along with these. Although I'm glad you mentioned some in the video as that's really helpful. I ended up going with a small cottage company for my rain jacket. I wanted something lightweight and didn't want a DWR coating to maintain. Plus I didn't want to spend $200. I landed on a LightHeart Gear rain jacket. It's got a nice hood with cinch, Velcro wrist closures, huge pit zips and pockets. Plus it only weighs about 6oz and and cost me $125. Without being breathable it can get warm in hot weather, but those huge pit zips really help. As for durability... I've been unfortunate enough to crash my bicycle in the rain and slid more than a few feet down the sidewalk and to my surprise, the jacket only ended up with a very small hole literally burned through it from the friction of being between my body and the pavement. I'd say that's pretty darn good.
Thanks for the great video with your honest feed back on both jackets. I came across this video at the exact right time as my wife and I have been trying to upgrade or hiking gear and we have had a VERY wet spring and summer this year. We don't let rain stop us from enjoying the beauty of the outdoors, but we would like to be as comfortable as possible when we are out hiking.
I’ve been using frog togs for 5 years in Colorado summer camping. I just bought my third set a couple of weeks ago, I’m getting two seasons out of them. I’ll buy 8 of them before I get to the Patagonia price.. couple tips: get the larger size, yes they do rip easily. Get a set for your kids and keep them on even after rain stops, they inevitably will sit on wet ground and soak their pants even once the rain stops. The pants are invaluable, they’re well worth it!
i've had several frogg toggs. the build quality is highly inconsistent but, i've found the heavier ones tend toward better . i had an ultra light set that came apart at the seams coming out of the package
Good review. You hit on the key point - which is application. In AZ where I live and spend a lot of time outdoors, I just have no use for something like the Patagonia. The rain is typ[ically short and sporadic with the exception of the monsoon. Then warmth is not really an issue - it's plenty hot, but keeping dry through the storm until the evening when it all stops until the next afternoon. WHen it gets cold, then you need different gear altogether.
I keep a Storm Racer in my pack, it’s very light, very trustworthy. It’s my usual very cold & rainy/snowy running shell, but it stays with me for emergencies. If I’m leaving home on a rainy day it’s my 3L Rainshadow, which still looks & performs like new after a few years. The bit of stretch & aqua guard zips add comfort and value. Upgrading all shells to 3L w PFC free DWR & 100% recycled shell fabric was a great move Patagonia made. A 3L shell lasts so much longer & feels less sticky/plasticy on bare skin in warmer temps. Pit zips are a must, if you’re wet inside from sweat it defeats the purpose. The Storm Racer has a whole chest ventilation panel w the double zip config, so it’s my usual “fast n feather light” hiking & scrambling shell as well. If either takes significant damage I’ll just send them back for repair. If you send something back several times staying true to keeping it out of the landfill they’ll likely offer a replacement for the current version or it’s equal, & recycle the old one. The performance, durability & warranty justify the price. The SR was sent to me as a tester, but if I had paid the $270 MSRP it would’ve been worth the investment, especially since I don’t just run in it. The Torrentshell’s 3L upgrade made it more of a legit shell, not just a rain jacket, so it can take quite a bit more than many will take it for. The overall durability & versatility’s been enhanced. And again, if you get a bit overzealous with it they’ll happily repair or replace & recycle.
i dont understand why frogg togs doesnt just add pit zips or better yet full length pit zips to their jackets, they would instantly be the most popular item on the market
I'm not a hiker or backpacker, but I do ride an ebike to get around all year round in every kind of weather in western NY. Having used some very nice membrane-based rain shells, these days I've mostly gone old-school: Waxed cotton. My experience with membrane-based shells is that after a few years the DWR has worn off and the membrane has degraded and no matter what you do to them they never work as well after that point. Plus I've had wet backpack straps force water back through the membrane. A decent waxed cotton jacket, though, you can reproof over and over and over, and each time it will protect you just as well as new, and you can keep doing it until the fabric disintegrates. The down sides are that it is on the heavier side, it's warm for summer wear, and it doesn't breath super well (though a light fabric lining does a decent job preventing condensation).
I think a better comparison of the two would be to use the Frogg Togg most comparable to the Patagonia. I'd venture to guess you'd still see a big difference in price and yet regardless of the outcome the information may be more valuable to the more budget minded consumers.
yeah they have a few different lines of jackets. I forget which one I got, but it had pockets, and it lasted for years before it wore out. It proved itself more waterproof and longer lasting than gore-tex jackets I've owned. They are loud, stiff and uncomfortable, those are the main downsides.
Scottish weather means we walk in a lot of rain, and sometimes in sleet (that soft, sticky, drenching near-snow). My favourite waterproof for horrible weather is a child size black, mesh-lined, 4000 hydrostatic head thing I bought second hand. It is not very breathable or lightweight but it is reliable. I've found a more expensive, more breathable version soaked through in heavy rain in our lovely British weather. I've just invested in a lined, heavy OEX raincoat which is more breathable but seems to stay waterproof and which has pit zips.
$200 is not really that expensive for a good rain jacket. $500+ now that's expensive! But Patagonia do make some nice gear. And the $100 price range just doesn't keep me dry for long, an hour maybe at most.
Love my Marmot Precip. Pit zips are a dealbreaker in warmer weather. I will stick my arms out of them creating like a waterproof vest. It looks silly but it's cooling. Also internal and external pockets, adjustable hood and cuffs, packs into its own pocket. Fantastic for the price, especially during a marmot sale.
Frogged tog is good for most folks, unless you're going through heavy briars it will hold up fine, packs well too. Not really windproof, keep that in mind.
I have an REI rain jacket that is 24 years old and still works great. The middle layer of extruded Teflon (Gortex) breathes water vapor out and keeps liquid water out. I live in Arizona, so we don't get rain every day, but torrential downpours are the occasional possibility. This jacket predates DWR, of which I'm glad, and don't understand the need for DWR if the middle layer is already waterproof. Also, DWR breaks down over a number of years and becomes a disgusting sticky surface. You can scrub it off with a detergent solution, but I'd rather not have it in the first place. So I'm happy with my old Gortex jacket which comes down to just above the knees and has extra long sleeves, hood, chin guard, vent holes with velcro to open or close, and several pockets inside and out. That being said, I ALWAYS have a $3 rain poncho in my hiking pack, and will use that for the lighter rains.
I bought the Frogg Togg jacket as my first purchase of rain gear a few years ago. I quickly found out I didn't like it for any sort of outdoor activities where I'm actually moving around or doing stuff. I think its more suited for very short term use or maybe like at a ballgame or something.
Frog toggs isn’t bad. I used mine for a few months and used it as a splash top in April last year while kayaking on the rogue river for four days-it did keep me almost completely dry. You do have to re-treat it VERY often though-I pretty much had to re-treat the DWR after every use. I invested in a goretex jacket by Rapha and I’ve had it for about seven months now and it hasn’t wet out yet even in the PNW rainforests. Invest in goretex while it’s on sale. I wish it had pit zips though since I get very sweaty.
I have a AUD$600 Macpac rain jacket. I put it through its paces in New Zealand in February and it did not disappoint. I LOVE IT and truly believe it was worth every cent. It rained on and off the whole 2 weeks we were there but were still able to do all of the hikes we had planned. It even held out -4degC winds!
Thanks for the honest review. I've seen so many testimonials concentrating on the weight, over comfort and utility. For a humble suggestion, try a Buffalo-Systems Mountain Shirt next to skin. No underlayers. Made in Sheffield England, its a windshirt and pile fleece combined and essentially acts as a wetsuit in wet weather.
My current Goretex is US military surplus. Dirt cheap, excellent protection, much lighter than my REI Goretex, plus really cool camo patterns. I'd love to see some reviews of military surplus gear compared to typical recreational hiking gear.
If you really wanted pockets and a good hood was that the right model of Froggtoggs for this comparison? You should have used the FROGG TOGGS Classic Pro Action Waterproof Rain Jacket. I have Pro Action ($29) version and it comes with me on bad weather backpacking. My expensive OR Gortex Jacket stays home.
I have a Froggy Toggs rain coat l bought at least 15 years ago and it has pockets and a slightly extended hood . I guess they're cutting cost these days but it's still in fine condition. As infrequently as l need it I think it's the better deal .
the pato is the best purchase ever, not only for hiking but everyday. Here in melbourne we have four seasons in one day and it just works. I've have mine for 3 years and it looks brand new still. Highly highly recommend
First thing: Love this video! I own the a Patagonia Torrent Shell and even though it is expensive, I live in the PNW and use it all the time. I don't think I could do a rain jacket without pit zips moving forward. Second thing: Miranda, if you have or are vomiting that color of pink without eating something that pink, please seek medical attention! lol
I tried out the Torrentshell at home and found it more crinkly and less breathable than the REI XeroDry jacket… so it went back. The REI rain jacket was more comfortable to wear, too. I tried FroggToggs too and sold them - very hot, uncomfortable and crinkly! But cheap and light. Definitely a race-off.
Would have loved to see you compare patagonia or frogg toggs to a zpacks or lightheart gear rain jacket, which are more cottage ultralight companies to compare durability because they would have been a similar price point to patagonia.
I just tried the Frogg Xtreme Lite (mens). I has more feature like zip pockets, but the one thing I can't get over is that it smells like a tent. It also has a fire melt warning, and an "oils will damage this" warning. idk, if you were looking for an occasional use thing to wear to a concert, or leave in your camper for emergencies or something, maybe. I can't imagine running errands in it, or why I would want it just for camping if it's not fire-pit safe. I don't like my Eddie Bauer version, but at least I can duck into a grocery store without smelling like a coleman tent.
I got my marmot jacket a few years ago for a trip to Costa Rica and have gotten tons of use out of it and will wear it for years. Just used it for a 5k run in iffy weather.Highly recommend.
Great comparison and not knocking either for their attributes for certain situations. I have a Marmot…whatever you said…I’ve only used it a couple of times because a. I try to avoid backpacking in the rain, b. If there is a chance, I have an emergency poncho. That said, I first time snowshoe backpacked and brought my North Face shell as I was certain the day out was going to be snow/rain and I didn’t completely trust the Marmot. It was and am so glad I had absolute water proof protection and many of the Patagonia features. My only fail were my REI waterproof gloves. Not waterproof. Also want to shout out about my ULA Circuit pack, not an affiliate, just like it so far. No protection for it and though they won’t say waterPROOF, everything stayed dry in my pack. That was with about 5 hours of slush pounding down on it.
These gear testing videos are awesome! Not going to lie, I have the Arc'terix rain jacket and it's amazing! But I also really like the old REI eVent jacket (which they don't have anymore).
FroggToggs also has quite a variety of styles as well. For $40 there’s the RiverToads, a BIG step up. And then there’s their FTX, which is arguably on par with the Patagonia, but still half the price. They also have other colors if you don’t like pink. So much FUD.
I have both! I absolutely love my Patagonia Torrentshell but also have a couple of Frogg Toggs for emergency inclement weather but honestly I really don't care for the feel of the FT's.
I have a Frogg Toggs poncho I have for just short trips with chances for rain. It is waterproof, but it is thin and weak in strength. It is totally not breathable as they claim. I do love it for the cost however and the pack size. For real rain days, I have a Snugpak enhanced partol poncho. This poncho kicks most others. It cost what seven of the FTs cost but comes with sleeves and hand holds. It also has a big front pocket. No water gets through it, but it is a little hot on humid hot days in my area. If you are in cold weather, the Snugpak even has an insulated liner you can purchase and it will keep you very warm. The true pluses for both is they cover your pack and your legs some. No more putting on a wet pack after the rain stops. (I wear drover coats for city shopping time rain events.) Just something for others to think about for ponchos than the conventional rain wear. Try/test a few, Miranda. I loved this vid and it taught me that if I buy a rain jacket, it will be a buy once cry once event. Thanks for all the great content Miranda and crew!
I've been looking at the patagonia for years but couldn't decide if it was worth it... this video is super helpful! I've loved my REI Rainier jacket for the past 5 or so years - it's a similar shape and features of the patagonia. I'll probably upgrade to the patagonia one after my REI one lived its' life.
I like Frogg Toggs for a lightweight shell when I'm fishing. My shell has pockets, too. It works much better than Gore-Tex. I've put my Frogg shell through the ringer in very tough conditions and it doesn't leak even after stuffing it in and out of a vest hundreds of times and hiking miles through streamside brush in heavy rain. You can even repair rips with duct tape! I'm on my 2nd one. The 1st one lasted 5yrs before it wore out. At this price point, I'll go with Frogg Toggs every time. I'd be scared to death to rip a $200 jacket on a spruce limb or some such obstacle.
7:08 I don't know why they did that. Even without a beanie the hood does not provide enough frontal coverage. I got around the "no brim hood" with a baseball cap though. I bought my Frogg Togg for recreational cycling. The hood fits under my helmet to keep the cold rain from running down my neck and back. In that way, a brim isn't necessary as it would start to block my view. There are other more durable options I could have bought, but they were more expensive and I just don't cycle that much in the rain to justify the purchase.
I'm really liking the Mountain Hardwear Goretex Paclite shell, it's ridiculously light and disappears in my pack until I need it. The fact that it packs down so small means I don't really have to worry about it taking up a lot of space in my small motorcycle bag, and can easily go on top of my protective jacket when rain inevitably comes on one of my Oregon country rides.
I use this one too for riding a bicycle to and from work. I think it is the “Exposure 2” by MHW but is also the GoreTex PacLite material. Super easy to bring with you every day everywhere.
My Frog Toggs has pockets but it is several years old. I use as something to throw in my pack and also in my car if needed. The Patagonia looks like a good choice though for a thru-hike or longer hike.
I miss the Miranda bloopers at the end too! I have a frog toggs jacket and pants that I’ve had for a few years and they work pretty well. It’s a men’s jacket that’s a bit oversized so the hood and sleeves cover everything. The thing I don’t love about frogg toggs is the massive amount of space they take up in your pack. They do not pack down small but they have kept me dry so far. And I like that you don’t get sweat underneath the jacket like you do in other rain jackets.
I look at the Frogg Toggs as something to use when going ultra light. When I want to keep my base weight under 10 lbs. you don't get better until you get some of those experimental materials that cost over $300 for the jacket. Mine has done well in the rain and does pretty good as a wind breaker. I wouldn't use it for a rugged hike, or a survival situation.
I’ve been using Frog Togs Ultralight since Kimberly Clark first brought it out as DryDucks. They don’t seem like they would be durable, but one set did an AT truhike with only one small tape patch. I have never had the fitting problem you talked about. The Frog Togs breathe so well that I put it on to escape mosquitoes and my sweat damp clothing dries out. The DWR on fabric raingear ALWAYS fails and then the fabric doesn’t breathe at all.
I have the Patagonia men's version. I bought it to replace my old Northface jacket. I like it for fit and comfort. The only things I would improve are the good visit section needs to be bigger for glasses wearers - remedied by wearing a cap. The other thing is the zip sometimes catches on the zip cover. And there is of course the longevity of the laminate material. The reason I replaced my NF was it started to delaminate after years of use. For that reason I would consider upgrading to the goretex Patagonia as it has a material not affecting the laminate water resistance and the zips do not need a cover which eliminates the zip catching.
Yeah so I've got the 15 euro (or IDK, super cheap) decathlon rain jacket and to be honest im super happy with it. It's a little bit plastig bag-y (polyester with silicon I think), but it works very well for me. I mostly use it while cycling, because it's light and small and it does not really keep my dry (i sweat like a pig while cycling, with or without the jacket. The jacket is water proof), but it keeps me warm, that combined with merino layers works very well, for me, all year round. It kinda has this ventilation ports which work way better than fancy expensive (and bad foe the environment) goretex-ish materials. The jacket also lasted me for at least 3 years now, without any durability issues.
I love my Mammut Wenaha, but I don't think they are sold any longer! The stiff visor is a MUST. I hiked two days of the Camino in a crappy rain jacket with no visor and had to look down most of the time, which hurt my neck. Huge must for me with a rain jacket!
I've had the Frogg Toggs Ultralight Rain Suit (jacket and pants) since 2017. No problems with either. I rarely use them, but often have them with me. They usually just stay in my truck for emergencies and then I toss them in my camping gear.
For a little bit more, the Frogg Toggs Xtreme Lite is a really good rain layer. If you're leaning towards the basic Frogg Toggs Ultra-Lite jacket, spend a little more for the Xtreme Lite. Mine has lasted me years (albeit with light hiking and fishing use)
I go with Frogg Togg all day long. Basically, all rain gear is a sauna if you are in motion. Also, a woman will have a different result because men sweat, women glisten. It comes down to this: If you are in a boat fishing, or in camp - not moving much, save yourself the bucks and get the Froggs. Buy them oversize and cut off the stupid elastic wrist closure. The added ventilation is great because no matter what your body is doing, it is likely your hands and arms will be in motion. Froggs are essentially Tyvek, the house weather wrap you see before the siding goes on. Wind breaking is excellent. Virtually no added bulk over insulating layers - unlike a parka. No, it's not very rip resistant, but for the price, carry a spare. They crush down to nothing. My last jacket lasted an entire season of outings in the Wet Side of Washington.
That was a fair assessment of the two, but Frogg Toggs does make better ones also and much cheaper. The jacket I have is a Frogg Toggs' a light weight material, a non-woven fabric which is waterproof, breathable, and wind proof with deep zip pockets, Velcro cuffs, a roll-up hood with visor, and cords to tighten around your face that stores in the back pocket. The front has a heavy-duty zipper, with a heavy flap that folds over zipper and snaps closed. It does not have pit zips, but since I have had this jacket for some time now, I don't remember the cost and I don't know exactly what the shell material consists of but seems sturdy, and warm to wear and ranger green my favorite color. But it does run big too as mine is a Large, and a full-length parka-cut.
The main reason I don't use frogg toggs is comfort. It feels like wearing a tarp. Fit and feature issues aside, I would trust them to keep me dry in an absolute downpour better though. In my experience DWR soaks through eventually. The cheap ones like the REI one I tried do so it in MINUTES, but the more expensive ones are reliable unless you're in a hurricane for hours. I use Kuiu which seems very comparable to the patagonia. High-end hunting gear is made for very demanding people, so I find it works great for hiking and backpacking also, and usually cheaper than the better hiking/backpacking brands. Main problem is style if you care about that. Drab color solids is the best you can hope for, my pants only came in camo.
My raingear is a poncho! Its a €45ish from decathlon, i like that it sits over my pack and is longer for my legs as well, and flappy enough for ventilation + I use it as a groundsheet under my tarp :) the hood is definitely not perfect, but i pair it with my sun cap. Wearing a suncap in the rain is a trick i picked up as a delivery driver, can definitely recommend it! Most people already carry or have one anyways, and its also awesome to drape a bugnet over in more 'buggy' areas
I bought the very first frog togs back before they even put a zipper on the front wore them out over a decade. Bought another set and am still using them 18 years later. I do use them for three seasons only though.
I have worn my frog toggs for several years with no tears. I took them (includes the pants) on the John Muir Trail, into the desert, into the mountains. I made pit vents by opening the side seam and installing velcro tabs on both jacket and pants. I wear a billed visor under the hood which keeps the rain out of my face. I can't afford the expensive brand name gear so am very happy with my frog togs.
Great video! Just as the point you made at the end of the video with the Frogg Toggs being meant more as an emergency rain shell and the Patagonia being the more reliable rain jacket, it's why I have two rain jackets. I got something more durable than the Frogg Toggs and use the Outdoor Research Helium as my ultralight rain shell for backpacking and day hikes, and use my Patagonia Calcite, very similar in features to the Torrentshell, as my everyday rain jacket.
I just edited my comment as realized it's actually the Patagonia Calcite Jacket, which is a GORE-TEX shell, that I have. not the Rainshadow. I recall part of the reason I went with it over the Torrentshell was because it also had a chest pocket which is really nice to have on a everyday jacket. I'm also in the PNW and it's held up really well to the frequent rain here.
@@rockjays7926 sweet! I’ll likely buy one of those. I’m in San Diego but have friends in PNW and wanted to buy one that’d be good for PNW. Which is the most breathable of the ones you own for jogging in rain?
I was so upset when I got a tear on my Patagonia jacket 😢 It’s great quality but really high price. I used azengear repair patches to fix that hole. Surprisingly, it worked great! So far I’ve washed the jacket several times and the patch is still there.
I'm so sorry you got a hole in your jacket, but HECK YES to repairing it!! If that patch ever fails, send the jacket in to Patagonia and they can repair it for you!
My experience is quite opposite. I had some expensive high end rain jackets. All were good for a day with hard rain. But for a longer period of rain, like three or four days, all my expensive jackets failed and I was totaly drenched. Frogg Togg on the other hand, never failed on me, I had a hike in the black forrest with 9 days non-stop rain with my cheap Frogg Togg and a rainskirt on me and I was bone dry. The hood needs to wear a cap with a shield under it and it is perfect. After every longer hike, I have some small holes in my Frogg Togg but I just tape it from inside with a piece of luko tape and this holds perfectly. Rips can be repaired in the same way. I swapped mine out for a new one after six years if use. Not to mention the difference in weight and packsize. For me Frogg Togg or Poncho is the best choice. The combo Frogg Togg and Umbrella is hard to beat for every weather.
I've never even seen membrane hold up for a whole day of rain 😅. Maybe it's gotten a lot better in recent years though, haven't really used any since my army days.
I have a black diamond liquid point shell that I got on sale last year ($150) to replace the one I got as a birthday present in middle school (10+ years ago😂). I still wear the old one but replaced because the permanent mud and dinge looked kind of gross and it wetted out after 2 hours in heavy rain. Goretex but has enormous vents in the armpits for the sweaty people out there. Love finding things that work great for less $$!
You should check out Lightheart gear. I use a rain skirt and combo shoulder/pack cover in warm weather and stay very cool. If its cold I will put a rain jacket on under. The system prevents wet through on shoulders. I have never found a rain jacket that doesn’t wet through and is breathable in all day use.
I’ve never tried Frog Toggs, but I had a Patagonia rain jacket and it was great for standing around in the bad weather for about three years. First it was always too hot for me, so I’d pretty much always have the pit zips open, and I’d get pretty sweaty, then the DWR wore off and it would wet through quickly, (I reapplied it, with Nikwax, but that didn’t last a ton of time) then the layers came delaminated and started flaking off and the inner laminated layers also wore off in high-friction zones, like my neck line and the cuffs. I felt like I could never wear it accept for standing around in foul weather because it was so hot. It was a fine jacket but I didn’t replace it with another Patagonia.
I have a thick oversided rain poncho stuffed in the water pouch in my bag it was in expensive and can cover me and the back completely in the event of torrential rain or multiday rain because most jackets under $300 eventually start leaking after more than a few days soaked. Also frog togs are on the same level of water proof as a light wind breaker in my book and that's a better use of your money they snag so easily that they start leaking after an hour or so. Also forgot to mention that regular non waterproof jackets that aren't waterproof but water resistant make a huge difference my 32° jacket from costco I've taken everywhere including snow vs my north face mid layer can't block wind is slightly lighter but effectively useless unless I'm summer camping was 3 times as much.
One thing we didn’t touch on in this video: the environmental impact of each jacket. For many years, companies have used long-chain fluorocarbon-based treatments for DWR. While super effective and highly durable, the by-product of this type of DWR is toxic and persists in the environment. Companies like Patagonia have been searching for alternatives, but as of yet the best bet is a slightly altered version of this treatment that’s more environmentally friendly, though far from perfect.
The alternative to DWR would be a non-woven jacket like the Frogg Toggs - but non-woven materials are WAY less durable than woven, and so the entire jacket winds up in the landfill far sooner. Also not environmentally friendly.
If this has you feeling bummed out, don’t be. Outdoor companies are investing heavily in research into better DWR treatments. In the meantime, just care for your gear and patch it as needed - regardless of which jacket you buy.
Fjallraven leads the pack in this regard.
Wouldn't another reason for the price difference be Patagonia's commitment to fair trade labor practices causing a significant increase off the price to manufacture? A major plus, in my opinion!
please do not buy new waterproof clothing from patagonia, if anything, look for a used one or get stuff from companies that do not use 'forever chemicals' (PFCs) which are cancerogenic
I have an old Frogg Toggs ultralite with lots of duct tape on it. It's still usable.
@@elizabethdodson8691 That might be a factor, but I think the brand name is really the issue... If Patagonia sold air there'd be a least a 40% markup over other _air sellers._
I prefer the Frogg Toggs because I like to say “frogg toggs”.
You’re fired.
@@MirandaGoesOutside Alright, well... guess I gotta go beg MrBeast for a job now.
😂 I love that!! Frogg Toggs Frogg Toggs Frogg Toggs!😀 You're right, it IS fun!!
🐸 Toggs !!!!!!
Me too
A couple things I use in addition to a nice rain jacket is unlined non-insulating rain mitts (if it's cold and my gloves are in danger of soaking through), with or without insulating gloves under them, and a billed cap for keeping rain off my glasses. When it's warmer, I find the hood acts like a sweat box, and I get much better ventilation if I keep the hood down and put on a rain hat instead. Yes, that is extra pieces of gear but they do make the rain hiking experience far less miserable for me, and I recommend everyone give them a shot if they can.
Plus one for using a hat in the rain! I pretty much always hike with a hat anyway, so it’s not any extra weight for me anyway. Even with it being a goretex hat, I’ve never had any times where it’s been too hot to wear.
(if) you can get them, the salomon bonatti flip mitts are amazing.
I was fortunate enough to get a Patagonia Torrent Shell Jacket at a Seattle Goodwill for $30. I love this comparison.
I've known Frogg Togg to run large because it was to be more accommodating to more bulkier clothing, under the shell. This worked well for me when riding a motor cycle with thicker, more-protective clothing.
I think it is worth mentioning the Patagonia warranty. I had a 10yr old Patagonia rain coat that started to delaminate after very light use - I live in San Diego. That jacket lost its ability to repel water so I ordered an on sale Columbia jacket for around $20. The Columbia jacket kept the rain off but it felt like wearing a trash bag. Fabric was not breathable and it did not have the pit zips - it did have wrist velcros and pockets... so maybe a better choice than the Frogg Toggs. But then, on a whim, I reached out to Patagonia, who gave me a $200ish credit for my old jacket. They apologized for the failure of their product (even though it was over 10 years old), and I got an new Patagonia rain jacket. Put that thing to good use over the 2022/2023 San Diego record wet winter and I can absolutely say that it is worth the money! This falls into the buy it for life category for me and it is infinitely more comfortable doing things like taking the pup for a walk on those rainy days! Environmental impact aside, a breathable rain jacket is a real quality of life improvement. Here's to hoping the future leads to more environmentally conscious breathable waterproof fabrics.
Nice I’m from inland empire and was finally going to cough up spending on a jacket especially now that we in June jackets go on sale
Own the Patagonia. Buy once, cry once, absolutely applies. It’s expensive; but, it’s good, so far best I’ve owned. I’m 67 yo.
I was gonna call BS on the "light use" until I saw you copped that you went through the Amazonian rainforest conditions of San Diego this year. Seattle has NOTHIN on us. I just argued above that this was a great company and not like the NIKE's out there. You just put the nail in the coffin on that one. That makes you a customer for life...good on them.
I had a similar, but negative experience with Patagonia warranty on their toreent shell H2No jacket that delaminated.
After the fabric wouldn't hold the water and weird stains appeared on the inside, I contacted Patagonia and they've acknowledged the known delamination issue. Instead of offering me a new jacket, they asked for the copy of original receipt. That was unexpected, and after I couldn't find it, they offered me a gift certificate in the lowest amount that this jacket was ever sold (probably at the end of the season) - $68.
That certificate was only goid at their stores. The only decent thing I was able to buy with that amount, after adding $10 of my own money is a himing shirt(which I love btw).
Needless to say, I never bought another Patagonia item and switched to Arc'teryx whose warranty and support has been awesome.
I just got a brand new Slate Sky in Wavy blue in a medium.. I had a five year old Rainshadow I got in large and was always to big. They actually send me a label to return my Rainshadow. Upon receipt they were like pick any other rain jacket $200 or less and we got you.
I seriously paid nothing. $200 for two professional jackets. The customer service was amazing, better than Apple. Just buy Patagonia with one caveat. They make clothing for lanky people like the girl here in the video (she’s not exactly lanky) I am however. Amy cousin who’s kinda bigger seems to not dig Patagonia and I think it’s the slimmer/trimmer fit.
Columbia makes great cheaper rain year if you’re a big dude. The watertight II is great for light rain. Anyways.
Pit zips are so underrated! Idaho is beautiful. We miss the Miranda bloopers at the end of your videos! I love my basic Marmot Precip. Maybe a follow-up video on how to care for your rain jacket (or waterproof gear)? Specific washes to use, causes for delamination, etc. Nothing worse than pulling your rain jacket out of the closet and have it literally be falling apart and flaking. Great video Miranda and Team!
I love my Marmot which was $90.
Thirding the excellence of the Precip. I'm fat and my Precip Eco is a 2X, but it only weighs 8.7oz, so the difference between that and the Frogg Toggs is ridiculously minimal.
Marmot precip is a great middle ground. It’s packable (light), has full features (hood stuffs into collar, pit zips, adjustable sleeves and hood, etc), waterproof, and inexpensive. You can usually find these of clearance somewhere for about $60.
@LisaBlooper Bro! Take a breather!😂😂
I have both a Frog Toggs and a high end rain jacket; love them both. Which one goes depends on forecast. Frog Toggs biggest shortcoming is lack of ventilation. However, don't sell the water proofing short as I have tested mine in shower and stayed totally dry.
In terms of lasting for years: I bought my Torrentshell in 2016, and worn it lots. I've washed and renewed the DWR a handful of times, but otherwise no issues whatsoever. it's great.
How do you renew the DWR? Because I have a rain jacket from The North Face that used to be really great, but now it isn't waterproof at all anymore.
@@peaksandpaws wash the jacket with soap flakes (or Nikwax Tech Wash), rinse, then wash it again with Nikwax TX Direct.
I'll say to mind your expectations though. It'll never be as good as it was from the factory now. Say what you like about PFCs (they're really bad, no doubt), but modern DWRs just aren't as good.
@@Jedwoods Great! Thank you so much. I'll look into that stuff.
I'm still wearing my Early Winters GoreTex shell from 198X. I just touch it up with DWR every Fall. Wear it skiing, climbing, hiking, winter backpacking. Summertime rainwear is a poncho, also used as a tarp to sleep under, it's more effective in PNW non-winter weather.
I have used the Frogg Togg poncho for years. Also I survived a hurricane with it and used it as a slight extra insulation during a snow storm. It does require some gentle care. As a side I also had a high end rain jacket. So my conclusion is to get both. The light weight for ul backpacking and the other one for no worries backpacking.
I bought the Torrentshell last year after doing a ton of research, wanting to get a good, durable rain jacket that would work for daily life and outdoor adventures. It was only around $150 when I bought it so a bit less expensive and so far I have loved it! A great feature that Miranda didn’t mention is it zips into its own pocket for easy storage!
The Rainshadow was a slightly better version that stretched and looked better but for some reason they quit making them. They were only like $20 more.
I recently bought the torrent shell after hiking with a cheaper rain jacket for years. My first hike with the torrent shell I discovered what it feels like to be dry. 😂 I'm also in the PNW with its 6 months of rain.
I love the torrentshell! I’ve worn it skiing and stayed super warm, I’ve worn it during downpours and stayed totally dry, and I’ve worn it rowing out in the rain and the pit zips helped me keep from overheating! It’s definitely expensive, but my parents got it for me as a Christmas gift which was awesome
The regular Frogg Toggs is the way to go in my opinion. I have the OR Helium that I always take backpacking and will always take until it fails one day. I just spent so much on the OR I'm taking it. It does pack down a lot smaller than the Toggs but I keep it on the outside of the pack anyway so size doesn't matter. If you don't have the money to blow just buy the Frogg Toggs. Many through hikers have backpacked an entire through hikes with it, with a few patch jobs but still.
I’ve had my OR Helium for seven years now and it’s the best I’ve had hands down. When it fails I’ll probably try to buy another of the same one 😅
OR Helium (and Outdoor Research products in general) beats Patagonia in all ways. But one thing that is especially important for me - it's quiet. Torentshell and Precip were both driving me crazy because of how squicky and loud are they
I actually just got the Torrentshell in November! I haven't spent a long time out in it but I have been out fairly briefly in very heavy rain and I stayed nice and dry without the sweaty dampness I get from my Gore-Tex jacket. My family and I have also had Frogg Togg rain suits for many years! They mostly live in our camping kit so they're always handy, but we also take them on hikes because they're lightweight and wonderfully effective. We've had the same suits for multiple years and its true they do have some small tears, but they're ungodly ugly anyway so that doesn't matter much - most of our holes are in spots where the rain doesnt cause much issue. We have like XL or 2XL and they're massively oversized so I haven't had the shallow hood issue; if anything the hood is always falling over your face. We cut the bottoms off of the pants too. All that is to say, Frogg Toggs aren't pretty, but they're fantastic for what they are - cheap, effective, and truly waterproof - but of course there are downsides to anything so cheap!
I have the Torrentshell and that thing kept me completely dry while walking around a few waterfalls in Iceland! It’s a great jacket!
The newer 3-layer model of the Torrentshell is one of the most durable and by far the best under $200 rain gear around for men women and children
As you say, I always carry the Frogg Toggs rain jacket at the bottom if my packs as emergency gear when rain is unlikely or insignificant. It’s light, compacts well, and is cheap. I save my higher quality jackets - heavier and bulkier - for hikes and backpacks where rain and snow are likely to be serious.
That has worked well for my 50 years of hiking and backpacking, although years ago I carried a cheap poncho for situations where my Frogg Toggs now suffices.
Eddie Bauer rain 🌧️ jackets are good they have a few different ones and there’s always a sale some just under 100 bucks
'Some of the worst hiking weather that you can possibly experience'- Cuts to literally every hike I've had the UK xD . If you wanna test out your rain gear, get yourself to Wales, rain is almost as garunteed as daylight!
Brother we feel you up in Seattle lmao. I ride MTB and hike year round. You absolutely need to spend up on quality gear to enjoy it year round. But once you get your setup dialed in it can almost be more enjoyable at times. That feeling of being the only one at a beautiful viewpoint that's normally busy in the summer is awesome.
Torrentshell is a jacket that I could recommend if you only want one that works in most occasions and holds up for years.
I really like my torrentshell for downpours, icy rain and wet snowfall. It is my go-to for worst weather. And pit zips are awesome.
But, if the weather is milder and not much chance of hours of rain or snowstorms, a lighter jacket like frogg togs would be nicer to carry around "just in case".
Thanks for the deal on LMNT. I’ve been wanting to try it but didn’t want a full box of an untried flavor. This is perfect!
I love my Eddie Bauer Cloud Cap. Packs into it's own pocket, lightweight, and great in rain.
I have both the REI Rainier and the Marmot Precip. They work great for western Oregon weather and pack down small enough to toss in any bag, including my fishing kit, and I spent less than $75 for each.
Headed to Alaska, researching outerwear for rain. Frogg Toggs are on my list but this video makes me rethink it, I definitely love me some pockets!! May have time to add some in, as I’m a pretty good seamstress.
If I could find warmth plus rainproof with pockets, even better for evening when not hiking.
i can’t decide between the Marmor Precip and the Torrentshell. What you think about the Precip in comparison to the Torrentshell?
Miranda .. you are a breath of fresh air for your generation. I am impressed you have found your niche in the world which shares your love for the outdoors. The positively joyous presentation of your material is endearing. People in so many different ways can be a voice of their generation .. and you are someone not only who I follow, but also my daughter and granddaughter.
I have the frogg togg xtreme lite and I find it to be a pretty good middle road for a budget rain jacket. It usually costs around $50, but you get something more durable and light weight, and it has pockets which one of them acts as a stuff pocket. Mine hasn't gone through a full season of hiking/backpacking, but I am finding it to be a nice addition to my layering system, despite there being the same issue with breathability as the cheaper model.
Worth checking out the frogg toggs Xtreme lite jacket. More durable, better featured like pockets and peaked hood and better fitting as well as lighter than the usual one but with all the same benefits. If it had pit zips it would be pretty much perfect.
Awesome video! Would have loved to see a middle of the road jacket tested along with these. Although I'm glad you mentioned some in the video as that's really helpful. I ended up going with a small cottage company for my rain jacket. I wanted something lightweight and didn't want a DWR coating to maintain. Plus I didn't want to spend $200. I landed on a LightHeart Gear rain jacket. It's got a nice hood with cinch, Velcro wrist closures, huge pit zips and pockets. Plus it only weighs about 6oz and and cost me $125. Without being breathable it can get warm in hot weather, but those huge pit zips really help. As for durability... I've been unfortunate enough to crash my bicycle in the rain and slid more than a few feet down the sidewalk and to my surprise, the jacket only ended up with a very small hole literally burned through it from the friction of being between my body and the pavement. I'd say that's pretty darn good.
Thanks for the great video with your honest feed back on both jackets. I came across this video at the exact right time as my wife and I have been trying to upgrade or hiking gear and we have had a VERY wet spring and summer this year. We don't let rain stop us from enjoying the beauty of the outdoors, but we would like to be as comfortable as possible when we are out hiking.
I’ve been using frog togs for 5 years in Colorado summer camping. I just bought my third set a couple of weeks ago, I’m getting two seasons out of them. I’ll buy 8 of them before I get to the Patagonia price.. couple tips: get the larger size, yes they do rip easily. Get a set for your kids and keep them on even after rain stops, they inevitably will sit on wet ground and soak their pants even once the rain stops. The pants are invaluable, they’re well worth it!
i've had several frogg toggs. the build quality is highly inconsistent but, i've found the heavier ones tend toward better . i had an ultra light set that came apart at the seams coming out of the package
Great video (as usual)! Many thanks to Miranda and all the crew!
Good review. You hit on the key point - which is application. In AZ where I live and spend a lot of time outdoors, I just have no use for something like the Patagonia. The rain is typ[ically short and sporadic with the exception of the monsoon. Then warmth is not really an issue - it's plenty hot, but keeping dry through the storm until the evening when it all stops until the next afternoon. WHen it gets cold, then you need different gear altogether.
I keep a Storm Racer in my pack, it’s very light, very trustworthy. It’s my usual very cold & rainy/snowy running shell, but it stays with me for emergencies. If I’m leaving home on a rainy day it’s my 3L Rainshadow, which still looks & performs like new after a few years. The bit of stretch & aqua guard zips add comfort and value. Upgrading all shells to 3L w PFC free DWR & 100% recycled shell fabric was a great move Patagonia made. A 3L shell lasts so much longer & feels less sticky/plasticy on bare skin in warmer temps. Pit zips are a must, if you’re wet inside from sweat it defeats the purpose. The Storm Racer has a whole chest ventilation panel w the double zip config, so it’s my usual “fast n feather light” hiking & scrambling shell as well. If either takes significant damage I’ll just send them back for repair. If you send something back several times staying true to keeping it out of the landfill they’ll likely offer a replacement for the current version or it’s equal, & recycle the old one. The performance, durability & warranty justify the price. The SR was sent to me as a tester, but if I had paid the $270 MSRP it would’ve been worth the investment, especially since I don’t just run in it.
The Torrentshell’s 3L upgrade made it more of a legit shell, not just a rain jacket, so it can take quite a bit more than many will take it for. The overall durability & versatility’s been enhanced. And again, if you get a bit overzealous with it they’ll happily repair or replace & recycle.
i dont understand why frogg togs doesnt just add pit zips or better yet full length pit zips to their jackets, they would instantly be the most popular item on the market
I'm not a hiker or backpacker, but I do ride an ebike to get around all year round in every kind of weather in western NY. Having used some very nice membrane-based rain shells, these days I've mostly gone old-school: Waxed cotton. My experience with membrane-based shells is that after a few years the DWR has worn off and the membrane has degraded and no matter what you do to them they never work as well after that point. Plus I've had wet backpack straps force water back through the membrane.
A decent waxed cotton jacket, though, you can reproof over and over and over, and each time it will protect you just as well as new, and you can keep doing it until the fabric disintegrates. The down sides are that it is on the heavier side, it's warm for summer wear, and it doesn't breath super well (though a light fabric lining does a decent job preventing condensation).
I think a better comparison of the two would be to use the Frogg Togg most comparable to the Patagonia. I'd venture to guess you'd still see a big difference in price and yet regardless of the outcome the information may be more valuable to the more budget minded consumers.
yeah they have a few different lines of jackets. I forget which one I got, but it had pockets, and it lasted for years before it wore out. It proved itself more waterproof and longer lasting than gore-tex jackets I've owned. They are loud, stiff and uncomfortable, those are the main downsides.
Scottish weather means we walk in a lot of rain, and sometimes in sleet (that soft, sticky, drenching near-snow). My favourite waterproof for horrible weather is a child size black, mesh-lined, 4000 hydrostatic head thing I bought second hand. It is not very breathable or lightweight but it is reliable. I've found a more expensive, more breathable version soaked through in heavy rain in our lovely British weather. I've just invested in a lined, heavy OEX raincoat which is more breathable but seems to stay waterproof and which has pit zips.
$200 is not really that expensive for a good rain jacket. $500+ now that's expensive! But Patagonia do make some nice gear. And the $100 price range just doesn't keep me dry for long, an hour maybe at most.
Love my Marmot Precip. Pit zips are a dealbreaker in warmer weather. I will stick my arms out of them creating like a waterproof vest. It looks silly but it's cooling. Also internal and external pockets, adjustable hood and cuffs, packs into its own pocket. Fantastic for the price, especially during a marmot sale.
Ya i took mines to Taiwan, which can be hot, and rain all sudden, and or if you go hike the mountains.😃 It's also decently light and packable
i can’t decide between the Marmor Precip and the Torrentshell. What you think about the Precip in comparison to the Torrentshell?
"They're hiking in underwear with half a toothbrush"
LMAO!
Frogged tog is good for most folks, unless you're going through heavy briars it will hold up fine, packs well too. Not really windproof, keep that in mind.
I have an REI rain jacket that is 24 years old and still works great. The middle layer of extruded Teflon (Gortex) breathes water vapor out and keeps liquid water out. I live in Arizona, so we don't get rain every day, but torrential downpours are the occasional possibility. This jacket predates DWR, of which I'm glad, and don't understand the need for DWR if the middle layer is already waterproof. Also, DWR breaks down over a number of years and becomes a disgusting sticky surface. You can scrub it off with a detergent solution, but I'd rather not have it in the first place. So I'm happy with my old Gortex jacket which comes down to just above the knees and has extra long sleeves, hood, chin guard, vent holes with velcro to open or close, and several pockets inside and out. That being said, I ALWAYS have a $3 rain poncho in my hiking pack, and will use that for the lighter rains.
You should do more of these educational comparisons that highlight important gear differences; I dig it.
Its not an educational comparison, its a commercial for Patagonia. She didnt even order the right size Frogg then complained it was too small...
I still have my Helly Hanson bought 15 years ago and it is still going good..... just 😊
I live in Scotland...so rain 🌧️
I bought the Frogg Togg jacket as my first purchase of rain gear a few years ago. I quickly found out I didn't like it for any sort of outdoor activities where I'm actually moving around or doing stuff. I think its more suited for very short term use or maybe like at a ballgame or something.
Frog toggs isn’t bad. I used mine for a few months and used it as a splash top in April last year while kayaking on the rogue river for four days-it did keep me almost completely dry. You do have to re-treat it VERY often though-I pretty much had to re-treat the DWR after every use. I invested in a goretex jacket by Rapha and I’ve had it for about seven months now and it hasn’t wet out yet even in the PNW rainforests. Invest in goretex while it’s on sale. I wish it had pit zips though since I get very sweaty.
I’m team umbrella! Well, both actually, do an ultralight rain jacket and an ultralight umbrella👍
I have a AUD$600 Macpac rain jacket. I put it through its paces in New Zealand in February and it did not disappoint. I LOVE IT and truly believe it was worth every cent. It rained on and off the whole 2 weeks we were there but were still able to do all of the hikes we had planned. It even held out -4degC winds!
Thanks for the honest review. I've seen so many testimonials concentrating on the weight, over comfort and utility.
For a humble suggestion, try a Buffalo-Systems Mountain Shirt next to skin. No underlayers. Made in Sheffield England, its a windshirt and pile fleece combined and essentially acts as a wetsuit in wet weather.
the barbie pink color is my favorite and I need more outdoor companies to make more stuff in pink.
My current Goretex is US military surplus. Dirt cheap, excellent protection, much lighter than my REI Goretex, plus really cool camo patterns. I'd love to see some reviews of military surplus gear compared to typical recreational hiking gear.
Especially since some outdoor gear brands have government contracts.
My go to waterproof jacket is the Paramo Alta. Its warmer and heavier, but if you have to rely on something working its always the one I go for.
Always entertaining. Thanks for the fun, educational video.
If you really wanted pockets and a good hood was that the right model of Froggtoggs for this comparison? You should have used the FROGG TOGGS Classic Pro Action Waterproof Rain Jacket. I have Pro Action ($29) version and it comes with me on bad weather backpacking. My expensive OR Gortex Jacket stays home.
I have a Froggy Toggs rain coat l bought at least 15 years ago and it has pockets and a slightly extended hood . I guess they're cutting cost these days but it's still in fine condition. As infrequently as l need it I think it's the better deal .
That Patagonia jacket is awesome I have a marmont jacket Gore-Tex pretty much just like that
the pato is the best purchase ever, not only for hiking but everyday. Here in melbourne we have four seasons in one day and it just works. I've have mine for 3 years and it looks brand new still. Highly highly recommend
First thing: Love this video! I own the a Patagonia Torrent Shell and even though it is expensive, I live in the PNW and use it all the time. I don't think I could do a rain jacket without pit zips moving forward.
Second thing: Miranda, if you have or are vomiting that color of pink without eating something that pink, please seek medical attention! lol
I tried out the Torrentshell at home and found it more crinkly and less breathable than the REI XeroDry jacket… so it went back. The REI rain jacket was more comfortable to wear, too. I tried FroggToggs too and sold them - very hot, uncomfortable and crinkly! But cheap and light. Definitely a race-off.
The torrentshell gets less crinkly over time. It's bombproof as well.
Would have loved to see you compare patagonia or frogg toggs to a zpacks or lightheart gear rain jacket, which are more cottage ultralight companies to compare durability because they would have been a similar price point to patagonia.
I just tried the Frogg Xtreme Lite (mens). I has more feature like zip pockets, but the one thing I can't get over is that it smells like a tent. It also has a fire melt warning, and an "oils will damage this" warning. idk, if you were looking for an occasional use thing to wear to a concert, or leave in your camper for emergencies or something, maybe. I can't imagine running errands in it, or why I would want it just for camping if it's not fire-pit safe. I don't like my Eddie Bauer version, but at least I can duck into a grocery store without smelling like a coleman tent.
I got my marmot jacket a few years ago for a trip to Costa Rica and have gotten tons of use out of it and will wear it for years. Just used it for a 5k run in iffy weather.Highly recommend.
Great comparison and not knocking either for their attributes for certain situations. I have a Marmot…whatever you said…I’ve only used it a couple of times because a. I try to avoid backpacking in the rain, b. If there is a chance, I have an emergency poncho. That said, I first time snowshoe backpacked and brought my North Face shell as I was certain the day out was going to be snow/rain and I didn’t completely trust the Marmot. It was and am so glad I had absolute water proof protection and many of the Patagonia features. My only fail were my REI waterproof gloves. Not waterproof. Also want to shout out about my ULA Circuit pack, not an affiliate, just like it so far. No protection for it and though they won’t say waterPROOF, everything stayed dry in my pack. That was with about 5 hours of slush pounding down on it.
These gear testing videos are awesome! Not going to lie, I have the Arc'terix rain jacket and it's amazing! But I also really like the old REI eVent jacket (which they don't have anymore).
FroggToggs also has quite a variety of styles as well. For $40 there’s the RiverToads, a BIG step up. And then there’s their FTX, which is arguably on par with the Patagonia, but still half the price.
They also have other colors if you don’t like pink.
So much FUD.
I have both! I absolutely love my Patagonia Torrentshell but also have a couple of Frogg Toggs for emergency inclement weather but honestly I really don't care for the feel of the FT's.
I have a Frogg Toggs poncho I have for just short trips with chances for rain. It is waterproof, but it is thin and weak in strength. It is totally not breathable as they claim. I do love it for the cost however and the pack size.
For real rain days, I have a Snugpak enhanced partol poncho. This poncho kicks most others. It cost what seven of the FTs cost but comes with sleeves and hand holds. It also has a big front pocket. No water gets through it, but it is a little hot on humid hot days in my area. If you are in cold weather, the Snugpak even has an insulated liner you can purchase and it will keep you very warm.
The true pluses for both is they cover your pack and your legs some. No more putting on a wet pack after the rain stops. (I wear drover coats for city shopping time rain events.)
Just something for others to think about for ponchos than the conventional rain wear. Try/test a few, Miranda. I loved this vid and it taught me that if I buy a rain jacket, it will be a buy once cry once event. Thanks for all the great content Miranda and crew!
I've been looking at the patagonia for years but couldn't decide if it was worth it... this video is super helpful! I've loved my REI Rainier jacket for the past 5 or so years - it's a similar shape and features of the patagonia. I'll probably upgrade to the patagonia one after my REI one lived its' life.
I got the torrent shell and love it!
I like Frogg Toggs for a lightweight shell when I'm fishing. My shell has pockets, too. It works much better than Gore-Tex. I've put my Frogg shell through the ringer in very tough conditions and it doesn't leak even after stuffing it in and out of a vest hundreds of times and hiking miles through streamside brush in heavy rain. You can even repair rips with duct tape! I'm on my 2nd one. The 1st one lasted 5yrs before it wore out. At this price point, I'll go with Frogg Toggs every time. I'd be scared to death to rip a $200 jacket on a spruce limb or some such obstacle.
7:08 I don't know why they did that. Even without a beanie the hood does not provide enough frontal coverage. I got around the "no brim hood" with a baseball cap though.
I bought my Frogg Togg for recreational cycling. The hood fits under my helmet to keep the cold rain from running down my neck and back. In that way, a brim isn't necessary as it would start to block my view.
There are other more durable options I could have bought, but they were more expensive and I just don't cycle that much in the rain to justify the purchase.
I'm really liking the Mountain Hardwear Goretex Paclite shell, it's ridiculously light and disappears in my pack until I need it. The fact that it packs down so small means I don't really have to worry about it taking up a lot of space in my small motorcycle bag, and can easily go on top of my protective jacket when rain inevitably comes on one of my Oregon country rides.
I use this one too for riding a bicycle to and from work. I think it is the “Exposure 2” by MHW but is also the GoreTex PacLite material. Super easy to bring with you every day everywhere.
My Frog Toggs has pockets but it is several years old. I use as something to throw in my pack and also in my car if needed. The Patagonia looks like a good choice though for a thru-hike or longer hike.
I miss the Miranda bloopers at the end too! I have a frog toggs jacket and pants that I’ve had for a few years and they work pretty well. It’s a men’s jacket that’s a bit oversized so the hood and sleeves cover everything. The thing I don’t love about frogg toggs is the massive amount of space they take up in your pack. They do not pack down small but they have kept me dry so far. And I like that you don’t get sweat underneath the jacket like you do in other rain jackets.
I'm seeing a number of requests in the comments for the bloopers at the end to return! Okay - we can make that happen. 😊
MontBell Versalite...best rain jacket I have ever used. I find the 3 layer jackets to be far too warm and heavy in all but the coldest of conditions.
I look at the Frogg Toggs as something to use when going ultra light. When I want to keep my base weight under 10 lbs. you don't get better until you get some of those experimental materials that cost over $300 for the jacket. Mine has done well in the rain and does pretty good as a wind breaker. I wouldn't use it for a rugged hike, or a survival situation.
I’ve been using Frog Togs Ultralight since Kimberly Clark first brought it out as DryDucks. They don’t seem like they would be durable, but one set did an AT truhike with only one small tape patch. I have never had the fitting problem you talked about. The Frog Togs breathe so well that I put it on to escape mosquitoes and my sweat damp clothing dries out. The DWR on fabric raingear ALWAYS fails and then the fabric doesn’t breathe at all.
I have the Patagonia men's version. I bought it to replace my old Northface jacket. I like it for fit and comfort. The only things I would improve are the good visit section needs to be bigger for glasses wearers - remedied by wearing a cap. The other thing is the zip sometimes catches on the zip cover. And there is of course the longevity of the laminate material. The reason I replaced my NF was it started to delaminate after years of use. For that reason I would consider upgrading to the goretex Patagonia as it has a material not affecting the laminate water resistance and the zips do not need a cover which eliminates the zip catching.
**visor not visit - sorry the autocorrect jumped in there
I have the Torrentshell and l’m verry happy with it!
Yeah so I've got the 15 euro (or IDK, super cheap) decathlon rain jacket and to be honest im super happy with it. It's a little bit plastig bag-y (polyester with silicon I think), but it works very well for me. I mostly use it while cycling, because it's light and small and it does not really keep my dry (i sweat like a pig while cycling, with or without the jacket. The jacket is water proof), but it keeps me warm, that combined with merino layers works very well, for me, all year round.
It kinda has this ventilation ports which work way better than fancy expensive (and bad foe the environment) goretex-ish materials.
The jacket also lasted me for at least 3 years now, without any durability issues.
I love my Mammut Wenaha, but I don't think they are sold any longer! The stiff visor is a MUST. I hiked two days of the Camino in a crappy rain jacket with no visor and had to look down most of the time, which hurt my neck. Huge must for me with a rain jacket!
I've had the Frogg Toggs Ultralight Rain Suit (jacket and pants) since 2017. No problems with either. I rarely use them, but often have them with me. They usually just stay in my truck for emergencies and then I toss them in my camping gear.
Oh and I'm not afraid of putting a bike tire patch on my rain jacket to deal with a tiny hole, but I never have needed to. No holes yet.
For a little bit more, the Frogg Toggs Xtreme Lite is a really good rain layer.
If you're leaning towards the basic Frogg Toggs Ultra-Lite jacket, spend a little more for the Xtreme Lite. Mine has lasted me years (albeit with light hiking and fishing use)
I go with Frogg Togg all day long. Basically, all rain gear is a sauna if you are in motion. Also, a woman will have a different result because men sweat, women glisten.
It comes down to this: If you are in a boat fishing, or in camp - not moving much, save yourself the bucks and get the Froggs. Buy them oversize and cut off the stupid elastic wrist closure. The added ventilation is great because no matter what your body is doing, it is likely your hands and arms will be in motion.
Froggs are essentially Tyvek, the house weather wrap you see before the siding goes on. Wind breaking is excellent. Virtually no added bulk over insulating layers - unlike a parka. No, it's not very rip resistant, but for the price, carry a spare. They crush down to nothing.
My last jacket lasted an entire season of outings in the Wet Side of Washington.
That was a fair assessment of the two, but Frogg Toggs does make better ones also and much cheaper. The jacket I have is a Frogg Toggs' a light weight material, a non-woven fabric which is waterproof, breathable, and wind proof with deep zip pockets, Velcro cuffs, a roll-up hood with visor, and cords to tighten around your face that stores in the back pocket. The front has a heavy-duty zipper, with a heavy flap that folds over zipper and snaps closed. It does not have pit zips, but since I have had this jacket for some time now, I don't remember the cost and I don't know exactly what the shell material consists of but seems sturdy, and warm to wear and ranger green my favorite color. But it does run big too as mine is a Large, and a full-length parka-cut.
The main reason I don't use frogg toggs is comfort. It feels like wearing a tarp. Fit and feature issues aside, I would trust them to keep me dry in an absolute downpour better though. In my experience DWR soaks through eventually. The cheap ones like the REI one I tried do so it in MINUTES, but the more expensive ones are reliable unless you're in a hurricane for hours. I use Kuiu which seems very comparable to the patagonia. High-end hunting gear is made for very demanding people, so I find it works great for hiking and backpacking also, and usually cheaper than the better hiking/backpacking brands. Main problem is style if you care about that. Drab color solids is the best you can hope for, my pants only came in camo.
My raingear is a poncho! Its a €45ish from decathlon, i like that it sits over my pack and is longer for my legs as well, and flappy enough for ventilation + I use it as a groundsheet under my tarp :) the hood is definitely not perfect, but i pair it with my sun cap. Wearing a suncap in the rain is a trick i picked up as a delivery driver, can definitely recommend it! Most people already carry or have one anyways, and its also awesome to drape a bugnet over in more 'buggy' areas
Good luck beating the Torrent shell. I was never completely dry in a rain jacket untill I got one
I bought the very first frog togs back before they even put a zipper on the front wore them out over a decade. Bought another set and am still using them 18 years later. I do use them for three seasons only though.
I have worn my frog toggs for several years with no tears. I took them (includes the pants) on the John Muir Trail, into the desert, into the mountains. I made pit vents by opening the side seam and installing velcro tabs on both jacket and pants. I wear a billed visor under the hood which keeps the rain out of my face. I can't afford the expensive brand name gear so am very happy with my frog togs.
Great video! Just as the point you made at the end of the video with the Frogg Toggs being meant more as an emergency rain shell and the Patagonia being the more reliable rain jacket, it's why I have two rain jackets. I got something more durable than the Frogg Toggs and use the Outdoor Research Helium as my ultralight rain shell for backpacking and day hikes, and use my Patagonia Calcite, very similar in features to the Torrentshell, as my everyday rain jacket.
What do you like better about the Rainshadow than the torrent shell reviewed here?
I just edited my comment as realized it's actually the Patagonia Calcite Jacket, which is a GORE-TEX shell, that I have. not the Rainshadow. I recall part of the reason I went with it over the Torrentshell was because it also had a chest pocket which is really nice to have on a everyday jacket. I'm also in the PNW and it's held up really well to the frequent rain here.
@@rockjays7926 sweet! I’ll likely buy one of those. I’m in San Diego but have friends in PNW and wanted to buy one that’d be good for PNW. Which is the most breathable of the ones you own for jogging in rain?
I was so upset when I got a tear on my Patagonia jacket 😢 It’s great quality but really high price. I used azengear repair patches to fix that hole. Surprisingly, it worked great! So far I’ve washed the jacket several times and the patch is still there.
I'm so sorry you got a hole in your jacket, but HECK YES to repairing it!! If that patch ever fails, send the jacket in to Patagonia and they can repair it for you!
Well, there's also a middle ground. I've been wearing my 50€ Quechua jacket for three years now and it's been pretty great.
My experience is quite opposite.
I had some expensive high end rain jackets. All were good for a day with hard rain. But for a longer period of rain, like three or four days, all my expensive jackets failed and I was totaly drenched.
Frogg Togg on the other hand, never failed on me, I had a hike in the black forrest with 9 days non-stop rain with my cheap Frogg Togg and a rainskirt on me and I was bone dry. The hood needs to wear a cap with a shield under it and it is perfect.
After every longer hike, I have some small holes in my Frogg Togg but I just tape it from inside with a piece of luko tape and this holds perfectly. Rips can be repaired in the same way. I swapped mine out for a new one after six years if use.
Not to mention the difference in weight and packsize.
For me Frogg Togg or Poncho is the best choice. The combo Frogg Togg and Umbrella is hard to beat for every weather.
I've never even seen membrane hold up for a whole day of rain 😅. Maybe it's gotten a lot better in recent years though, haven't really used any since my army days.
I have a black diamond liquid point shell that I got on sale last year ($150) to replace the one I got as a birthday present in middle school (10+ years ago😂). I still wear the old one but replaced because the permanent mud and dinge looked kind of gross and it wetted out after 2 hours in heavy rain.
Goretex but has enormous vents in the armpits for the sweaty people out there.
Love finding things that work great for less $$!
The Patagonia Houdini might have made a more ligical comparison, I believe it actually weight a little less than the FT (I could be wrong).
The Houdini is only water resistant, not waterproof! I wanted to compare two truly waterproof coats. But I love my Houdini for light rain!
@@MirandaGoesOutside That makes sense, I thought it was a rainshell but I was wrong!
You should check out Lightheart gear. I use a rain skirt and combo shoulder/pack cover in warm weather and stay very cool. If its cold I will put a rain jacket on under. The system prevents wet through on shoulders. I have never found a rain jacket that doesn’t wet through and is breathable in all day use.
I’ve never tried Frog Toggs, but I had a Patagonia rain jacket and it was great for standing around in the bad weather for about three years. First it was always too hot for me, so I’d pretty much always have the pit zips open, and I’d get pretty sweaty, then the DWR wore off and it would wet through quickly, (I reapplied it, with Nikwax, but that didn’t last a ton of time) then the layers came delaminated and started flaking off and the inner laminated layers also wore off in high-friction zones, like my neck line and the cuffs. I felt like I could never wear it accept for standing around in foul weather because it was so hot. It was a fine jacket but I didn’t replace it with another Patagonia.
You could have, patagonia could well have sent you a replacement
I have a thick oversided rain poncho stuffed in the water pouch in my bag it was in expensive and can cover me and the back completely in the event of torrential rain or multiday rain because most jackets under $300 eventually start leaking after more than a few days soaked. Also frog togs are on the same level of water proof as a light wind breaker in my book and that's a better use of your money they snag so easily that they start leaking after an hour or so.
Also forgot to mention that regular non waterproof jackets that aren't waterproof but water resistant make a huge difference my 32° jacket from costco I've taken everywhere including snow vs my north face mid layer can't block wind is slightly lighter but effectively useless unless I'm summer camping was 3 times as much.
Always love to see a Miranda video!