My wife’s grandfather was a nose gunner in the B-17 “King Malfunction II “ and was shot down over Germany. When he jumped out of his plane it was literally the first time he had ever used a parachute. He told the story of how he pulled his cord and nothing happened, he then pulled his reserve and nothing happened. It wasn’t until he started beating and pulling on his chute pack did it finally open. He vividly recalled the Germans shooting at him as he was coming down. After being held at pitchfork by civilians he was captured and spent the rest of the war as a POW in prison camps. After he was liberated he returned to duty and retired from the air force years later. Everyone that knew him said he was the most genuine, kind man they had ever met. I hope I’m half the man he was.
@@tkimmons85 nice. I have an enormous amount of respect for those who serve and especially those who fought in the Second World War. And I’m sure that you have lived up to his expectations.
World War Wings you aslo stated the the FLAK Jacket was useless at stopping the 20mm of a BF-109 missing what the jacket was used and intednded for stopping FLAK shrapnel. Good video though and i like that you said "bf-109" NOT "ME-109"
@Seve Johnstone "Me 109" was an erroneous term used to name the Bf 109, mostly because of a demand by the RLM in 1944 that all new aircraft bear initials from the chief designer's name in the production name of the aircraft, which is why the Me 262 isn't called the Bf 262 and the Me 410 isn't called the Bf 410.
When I was in the Air Force in the early 70’s, one of my civilian tech school instructors (he was retired Air Force) had survived the downing of the B-24 he was the Radioman on. He was only survivor, and said that was because they had just dropped their load and the bomb bay doors were still open. He heard someone yell out “Bandits Twelve O’Clock”! Then heard and felt an explosion up front. The plane immediately went into roll. They were trained if that happened it was everyman for himself because your pilots are probably dead. He always wore his belly chute and jumped from the bomb bays he was right behind as soon as the plane made its first roll. Once his chute opened he last saw his Liberator still rolling as it passed into a low cloud deck. No one else got out. If the plane was rolling as it went down it was almost impossible to get out of, let alone put on a chute. The centrifugal force would through you against the wall of the plane.
The other question asked about parachutes was " How long do i have to pull the cord before I hit the ground?" The answer was, "The rest of your life son, the rest of your life." LOL
This video unsuccessfully scratches the surface of the Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress. First, the 25 - 33% return rate must refer to the odds of surviving 25 missions, not a single mission. Loss rate for most missions when you include 1943-1945 was less than 4 percent per mission. Second, flak was the real threat throughout 1943-1945 as Bf-109 fighters were scarcely to be found near the "bomber boxes" by April 1944 due to fuel and pilot shortages. Flak vest was quite helpful in most circumstances faced by bomber crews. For in-depth coverage of WWII aviation, see Bismarck channel on RUclips with ruclips.net/video/-v5aMayFrRE/видео.html as a great starter.
Good response Samuel. 1943 missions, not a lot of crews made the 25 mission mark. 1944 Early, many crews made it. 1944 Late, most crews made it, 1945 nearly all crews made it. In fact, many bombers flew with reduced crews as the defensive guns were seldom needed as the fighter threat had been largely defeated. Flak vests and helmets helped lots vs Flak shell bits. Nothing will save you from a .50 cal or larger hit. YES, the THUNDERBOLTs in late 1943-mid 1944 did the most to reduce the quantity and quality of LW pilots facing the bombers. The MUSTANG was just the last few nails in the coffin. The Germans lacked domestic oil production which hobbled everything that they did or could do. Who won the war? The countries with oil (or unfettered access to oil)! USA, USSR, and the British Empire. The vid gives the maximum altitude. Combat flying altitudes were 22k-24k ft. No coincidence that this was just above the altitude where performance of the Fw190 started to fall off rapidly.
@@68RatVette Not to mention most experienced German pilots had either been killed or shot down and captured over the eastern front and during the air battles over the English channel. I believe too Bf109's had smaller fuel tanks so their operation times were very small compared to a Spitfire or Thunderbolt. The just couldn't really engage in dogfights. Especially since during the times after 1943 most of the pilots were very inexperienced and going up against hardened veterans of the allied airforces.
Samuel Thompson, Those statistics were at the time when the long-range P-51 Mustang escort fighters were not yet available at the time. When the P-51s were available to provide the B-17s on a round-trip escort protection, the lost rate decreased significantly.
@@spreadeagled5654 I don't know what this video meant about a "25 - 33% return rate." The loss rates for the absolute worst American missions like the two Schweinfurt raids of 1943 were about 25% which to me would mean a 75% return rate. This blew my mind - the RUclipsr that I hugely respect for his serious mechanical and historical credibility makes a very compelling case that the P-47 Thunderbolt with the upgraded 1944 drop tanks could escort 8th Air Force bombers to Berlin. However, I suspect that by mid-1944, most of the P-47's had been reassigned as very effective, low-altitude fighter-bombers, leaving bomber escort duty to the P-51's. Here is Part 6 of a series Greg has been posting. ruclips.net/video/aCLa078v69k/видео.html
The yellow vest isn't a Flak vest, it's a actually a life vest, the flak vest looks like the big vests they give you at the dentist when you get an X Ray
Jack Dawes Flak vest are typically bigger and thicker than the vest you get to protect from radiation and I think he just chose that picture cuz it’s the only picture with all the details and stuff
I had the opportunity to fly in one of them at an air show. I was absolutely shocked at how cramped and small it was inside. The guys who flew in these had balls of steel. All my respect. I was a grunt in Vietnam, I’ll take the ground any day. After the first mission flying in those I would’ve went awol. And the poor guy in the ball turret? Holy shit. If you’ve never been inside one try and do it. It will give you a whole new perspective on what they went through
My father was a tail gunner for 30 missions. Interesting fact, the vast majority of the crew would use an OD towel in lieu of the ol' silk scarf. The towel soaked up the slobber from the masks, the silk scarf did not. Also, flack vests were usually placed on the floor to protect from errant flack from below. The flack vest you are showing appears to be a life vest. Good video, I like the pacing and style, plus it's narrated by a human, which is a big plus. Keep it going. Thanks.
That really is even more hard to imagine doing especially in these times and with the weapons now that could really kill this kind of bomber vs what it was up against in WW2.
1:43 Excuse me? During WW2 _loss_ rates of more than 8% for single missions were not sustainable, anything above 10% would trigger a review and the 16% loss rate on Schweinfurt-Regensburg is remembered as an unmitigated disaster. Single mission return rates would typically be around 95%. (Which is still increadibly leathal, given you need to fly ~30 missions each with a 5% chance to become a casulty).
No, that is to simplistic of an approach. Operation Chastise, the Dambusters raid had a loss rate of 42%, so over twice the loss rate of an unmitigated disaster. Don't that anybody would call the Dambusters raid an unmitigated disaster, times two.
@@jamesfinlay8180 Operation Chastise was a very specific niche operation conducted by a specialist unit with extensive preparation and training. It's far from representative for the air war. And even that is still pretty far from the 25% return(!) rate claimed in the video.
@@awfullygenericname6783 To be fair, Id rather get pierced by an AP round, than have my body turned into a fine red mist sprayed all over the inner fuselage
WE HAD US P ILOTS STAY WITH US WHEN ON LEAVE THEN ONE DAY THEY DID NOT RETURN AND WE COULDNT FIND OUT ANYTHING ABOUT THEM CAPT SMITH WAS ONE HIS NAME HAD ORIGINALLY BEEN SMIT AND THE OTHER JOE WAS A NORWEGIAN CO PILOT WE TRIED AFTER THE WAR TO GET INFO FROM US AUTHORITIES SO WE COULD WRITE ABOUT THEM TO THEIR FAMILIES BUT NEVER COULD GET THAT INFO.
I've been in the cockpit of a B-17. At 6'2" I can say he must've barely fit. I had a book when I was a kid it mentioned an F-18 pilot who was 6'9". I'm not sure I'd trust those straps on the ejection seat to pull my legs back if I needed to eject.
I was friends with a 94-year old woman who served at the Colorado Air Force base where the B-17 crews trained. She said they were mostly short and cocky and when you see WWII leather flight jackets in museums you'll notice that most are rather small in size. I have been and flown in B-17s several times and at 6' tall and with a build I have difficulty getting by the top turret's base and through the bomb bay catwalk.
My Dad flew in a B-17 during 1944 - 1945. He was the Radio man. Now, His right arm was 2 inches shorter than his left arm and he was a lefty. And the parachutes had the rip cord handle on the left side so you needed to have a strong right arm to pull it. Well... on his 15th mission, after the bomb run, the B-17 was on its way out of German territory when it was hit by fire from a German fighter and disabled. The pilot was able to keep the plane flying until it got into Belgium air space and then issued the get out order. My dad, along with his crew jumped. On the way down, my dad used his right arm to try to pull the rip cord but the strength just wasn't there. He was unable to pull his rip cord. With the ground getting closer he thought quickly and brought his left hand up to his right arm and pulled downward. The parachute deployed and he, along with his crew, landed safely in Belgium. They found a farm house where they were fed and given a place to sleep and were reunited with their unit and returned safely to England.
For support of the following please see Freeman's series of books on the 8th AF. I have know idea what the video means by their return stats of 25-33%, Prior to the arrival of the Merlin-engined P-51B/C/D long-range escort fighter these numbers could mean the chance of a crew completing its 25 mission tour of duty. The 8th AF's goal was an aircraft return rate per mission of 90 % plus. There were a significant number of missions in mid to late 1943 where the return rate was less than 70%. Of that number a further 30 % of the original strike force were damaged beyond repair. The October 1943 raid on Schweinfurt was especially bloody. It is well chronicled by both Freeman and in Martin Caidin's BLACK THURSDAY.
All non- pilot crew would assemble amidships for takeoff and landing to make it the center of gravity. Yes, you could access the tail gun position, not necessarily easy, but doable, not only the tail wheel but camera equipment was mounted back there to take strike photo's. The "G" had what I think was called the "Cheyenne" turret- like mount which afforded a greater field of fire than the earlier models which were simply pair of guns mounted on a swivel. My father was a tail gunner, he flew this and earlier models, he said the "G" was much better thanks to the waist gun windows that cut down on the wind that would come blasting down the fuselage and exit out through his position, he stated the electric suits never could keep up with the chill factor and it was always bitterly cold back there. He also said it was the loneliest station being so remote from the rest of the crew, even the ball turret gunner had company. Additionally, it was his job to give an element position and strike report- for obvious reasons- so he was one busy guy back there. And finally, after a mission one day the crew was over the channel near home, gathered amidships and bs'ing- it was considered "safe skies"- when a lone wolf ME or FW jumped them, he said all hell broke loose with everybody scrambling to get back to their station, he said he managed to give the guy a good "Stitching" when he made another pass, and flew off.
As you mentioned the yellow “flak vest,” you highlighted the “Mae west,” which is not a flak vest at all, but an inflatable life vest for water survival. The actual flak vest is a heavy vest/apron worn over the entire flight suit/gear for protection against flak shrapnel, and not intended for protection against 20mm cannon shells anyway.
Where do you get the 25 % - 33 % loss figure? The heaviest single mission % loss figure I'm aware of was Second Schweinfurt, where some 22 % of the B-17s that took off were shot down or crash-landed (17 more were scrapped). The average loss per sortie during the worst period of the war, the unescorted deep penetration missions from July-October 1943, was 9.3 %, not "25-33%". 25-33 % is a relevant statistic, I recall, but it was more like the average chance a B-17 crewman had of completing all 25 missions without becoming a casualty during the worst period of the war. The chances were pretty good you wouldn't be becoming back whole, if at all.
WWII, when technology at its best was half met/understood. Men, cramped up into tiny spaces, not just the bombers, but the fighters as well. I understand being born into country/political righteousness/favoritism, but war sucks, and outside off being told what to do, most enemies, could probably be friends. In 10 years every soldier of WWII will be gone. Maybe a few children might remember early stories, but the soldiers will be gone. No more live video recordings, or told stories from grandpa, to grandchild. Just whatever( limited) videos exist. So, to all soldiers, thank you for serving, friend or foe. Respect, and love. All sides had an amazing story to tell.
Just out of curiously, if they had to go to the bathroom, where did they go ?, I'm assuming some sought of built in thingy in their flight suit, but it is never mentioned ?.
My great grandpa worked one one of those. He was the bottom ball turret. He would tell me how he could look straight down at the ground. He’s a really cool grandpa
I was fortunate enough to fly on one at an air show. The men who served on those were amazing. One thing you forgot was to include the weight of the huge balls those brave men had!!!
My father was a left waist gunner on a B24 and some of the stories he told of how crew that was so badly wounded that they would not survive to return to base, had parachutes put on them by the rest of the crew and dropped out of the bomb bay to parachute in to German hands, in order to survive. Also sometimes crew traded gear with British crew and as he did, and found that British gear did not fit the American chutes, US harnesses had 4 attachment points English harnesses had 5. He found that out the hard way when he had to jump when his plane was shot down, he made it but had to get the chute attached with one hand, he had been hit with flak fragments and had his nose almost removed and left arm broken and when he landed he broke both legs, and spent six months in a German air force hospital and then 2 years in a pow camp.
RIP (2006) my father, Lt. Stanley P. Friedman, bombardier in the 8th Air Corps, 1943-45. 36 missions and "not a scratch on him" even when the entire crew had to bail out over England in the fog after a mission. All survived, "airplane complete destruction." His best words imparted to me about life after wartime when facing difficulties: "If I can get through the war, I can get through this." He also said "And I'd do it again." He was one tough son-of-a-bitch!
Also wanted to add: When the order of "Bail out!" was given in the B-17 as the plane ran out of fuel, one guy put his chute on like all the others but froze - he wouldn't or couldn't jump, he was just paralyzed with fear. My Dad said there was no time to talk to him or convince him to jump. Instead, two guys just grabbed him and threw him out of the airplane! He was fine. They all were fine, no injuries.
"The Wrong Stuff" is a really great autobiographical book written by a former B-17 co-pilot, Truman Smith. A truly funny, exciting, matter-of-fact yet also touching book about overcoming adversity. As a 20-year-old inexperienced US bomber pilot, away from home for the first time, Smith describes all the 1001 things that can go south in a hurry, when ten young men with no experience are put in a worn-out, rusty B-17. Broken hydraulic and electrical systems, insufficient heating in the extreme cold of 10,000 feet, and ten scared big boys in uniform - a potentially deadly mix, even without the enemy flak and fighters. Despite all this "wrong stuff, 2nd Lt. Truman Smith manages not only to stay alive and sane. He also retain his sense of humor, comradeship and to focus on his real mission: to lose his virginity! A mission that may prove even more daunting than 35 combat mission in the skies over Europe!?
A: that yellow thing you pointed to as a flag vest was actually it a inflatable lifesaver called the Mae West and inflated using a little CO2 cartridge.
Quick note that at some point during the war they must've started training men to jump out of the planes and use their chutes, and how to land safely so they werent injured. I know this because it was my grandfather's job to train them on it. He spent a good portion of his WW2 military service doing this. Maybe not everyone was trained, but many were.
My great grandfather was a tail gunner and he had a piece of flak fly into his left knee he was decommissioned after the incident but worked at a munitions factory
My great grandfather bombed German weapons factories with one of those. He and his crew nearly died on his 25th mission. My grandpa had a huge amount of shrapnel in his foot (he was the pilot) and in a dogfight in the same mission, he nearly lost the whole left wing of the b-17. Then after my grandfather was sent back to the states, he never saw the plane again because it was repaired and then another crew used it and was shot out of the sky and into the ocean.
Add to the liitle time to get out, the fact that you likely be pulling overwhelming and swiftly changing Gs. I got to ride in one a couple years back, and at 6', 200lbs, I could barely squeeze into the top turret or rear turret positions (forget the ball turret.) Although the WW2 kids were likely smaller, they were probably my size with their equipment. I don't really see how anyone could help them if they were shot and wounded. What a hell of a way to fight a war.
Those "unstylish 40lbs vests" saved god knows how many lifes. It was far more likely that you'd be struck by shrapnel from an airburst than take a direct hit from a 20mm autocannon.
Pearl Harbor* The Japanese Zero was around for a long time before the Pearl Harbor attack and extensively used in the Sino-Japanese war. It was feared by many even before US Involvement in the war. It'd be an interesting topic to do a video on. I'm very happy you're triggered :).
Kamikaze attacks weren't used until very late in the war when they knew they had no chance of winning. They were also done by planes specifically made for Kamikaze attacks were NOT the Mitsubishi A6M series.
My grandfather was in Bitish Army during WW2. He escaped the Japanese by driving a jeep from Burma to India and due to long drive he had a permanent neck injury. I'm from Bangladesh.
Please could you make a similar video on the crew of a Lancaster. These guys flew at night. During the winter months of 1943 to '44, RAF Bomber Command attacked Berlin in a sustained effort to bring the war to an end. Flak, icing, fog, full moon, airborne radar, grown radar, heavily armed nightfighters, target indicators, Pathfinders, Bomber Stream, radio counter measures, IFF, Gee, Oboe, 4,000lb cookie, H2s radar, Schrager Musik. The difference between what the 8th AF crews experienced to that of RAF BC was vast. So I think you should help folks in the USA understand what these guys went through. It was a different kind of hell. Ta.
Just wanted to point out what you were calling the flack vest is not the flak fast it is the Mae West vest which is a life preserver which would be blown up with two CO2 cartridges so they could float in the ocean
Everyone should watch The Cold Blue (2018). Think it was dangerous to be exposed to lack of oxygen, freezing temperatures, enemy flak and enemy fighters shooting at you? Try just getting airborne with a full bomb load, then swirling up to meet the rest of your squadron without hitting one another, then making a bombing run in broad daylight and if you survived your flight over enemy territory, you still had to make it home...sometimes without one or two engines, missing part of your tail, and full of all kinds of holes.
The B-17 isn't exactly my personal favorite WW2 bomber. But the *real* problem with using the B-17 is not the plane itself, it was the problem of fighter escort protection, and the B-17 was supposed to solve this particular problem as it had those .50 Caliber Machine guns and so it was felt that a fighter escort protection wasn't needed for the B-17, and consequently all B-17 Bombing Raids had no fighters to protect it. This problem was solved when the P-51D Mustang was invented as it had the range to protect the Allied Bombers.
If you think the WWII humor regarding the defective parachute is that bad, I have a friend who was a former Army helicopter pilot who flew CH-47 Chinooks and UH-1 Hueys during the Vietnam War. He told me that the pilots were instructed by their flight manuals and also were verbally told by their flight instructors: if the helicopter is disabled for any reason in an emergency, they are to “exit the aircraft.” OK, we are to “exit the aircraft.” What???? With the aircraft on fire and at 3,000-5,000 ft. altitude with no parachute? (Chopper crews don’t have parachutes) Yeah right! Very funny, for those who are being shot at while doing the flying! That’s Vietnam era humor at its best/worst! He said that was “very funny” indeed as he was shot down 3 times with severe injuries during the Vietnam War and suffered PTSD for years afterwards and wanted nothing to do with aviation. Not even to fly on an airplane today. Yeah, “very funny” indeed! 😡.
One of the factors that increases mortality of bomber crews is the size of the aircraft bullets and that they had hours to get to home if they needed medical help.
Great video but you got a couple things wrong but the biggest one was the b-29 it called the superfortress as the stratofortress is a bigger plane with turbine jets on.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
My wife’s grandfather was a nose gunner in the B-17 “King Malfunction II “ and was shot down over Germany. When he jumped out of his plane it was literally the first time he had ever used a parachute. He told the story of how he pulled his cord and nothing happened, he then pulled his reserve and nothing happened. It wasn’t until he started beating and pulling on his chute pack did it finally open. He vividly recalled the Germans shooting at him as he was coming down. After being held at pitchfork by civilians he was captured and spent the rest of the war as a POW in prison camps. After he was liberated he returned to duty and retired from the air force years later. Everyone that knew him said he was the most genuine, kind man they had ever met. I hope I’m half the man he was.
My father was a B17 pilot. Respect for all veterans.
www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/4107
Here is a link to the bomber :)
His name was Lloyd Duke?
@@TR0X3N yes
@@tkimmons85 nice.
I have an enormous amount of respect for those who serve and especially those who fought in the Second World War. And I’m sure that you have lived up to his expectations.
1:15
To be fair, no personal armor ever created could stop a 20mm cannon round, not even with todays tech.
Seriously... those things didn't "cut through". They absolutely obliterated.
I literally laughed when he said that.
Bf 109 G6 had 30 mm cannon.
@@ulise89 And later variants that have those same 30 mm cannons on the wings XD. So, Over kill?
ulisse Pavalache And a 3inch cannon. 😆😆😆😆😆 Boom!
today i got a chance to fly in one of these. it was amazing. truly.
That's so awesome...wow..so jealous..
Спппомриртмомроииоииооопо
Where's the video you scrub
Just now I bombed a place from a spaceship. It was dreamlike. Really.
Made a knucklehead mistake. B-29 Superfortress, not Stratofortress. We know the difference, but you know...
World War Wings i had to watch it twice to find that
World War Wings you aslo stated the the FLAK Jacket was useless at stopping the 20mm of a BF-109 missing what the jacket was used and intednded for stopping FLAK shrapnel.
Good video though and i like that you said "bf-109" NOT "ME-109"
@Seve Johnstone "Me 109" was an erroneous term used to name the Bf 109, mostly because of a demand by the RLM in 1944 that all new aircraft bear initials from the chief designer's name in the production name of the aircraft, which is why the Me 262 isn't called the Bf 262 and the Me 410 isn't called the Bf 410.
As an AM2 and a 40 year old, life long aviation nut, I can honestly say, at a point it all frames and models start to blend. xD
World War Wings 0:02 sorry if im just nitpicking but did you see the tail gunners gun?
When I was in the Air Force in the early 70’s, one of my civilian tech school instructors (he was retired Air Force) had survived the downing of the B-24 he was the Radioman on. He was only survivor, and said that was because they had just dropped their load and the bomb bay doors were still open. He heard someone yell out “Bandits Twelve O’Clock”! Then heard and felt an explosion up front. The plane immediately went into roll. They were trained if that happened it was everyman for himself because your pilots are probably dead. He always wore his belly chute and jumped from the bomb bays he was right behind as soon as the plane made its first roll. Once his chute opened he last saw his Liberator still rolling as it passed into a low cloud deck. No one else got out. If the plane was rolling as it went down it was almost impossible to get out of, let alone put on a chute. The centrifugal force would through you against the wall of the plane.
B-24 Liberator, The Flying Coffin
The other question asked about parachutes was " How long do i have to pull the cord before I hit the ground?"
The answer was, "The rest of your life son, the rest of your life." LOL
This video unsuccessfully scratches the surface of the Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress. First, the 25 - 33% return rate must refer to the odds of surviving 25 missions, not a single mission. Loss rate for most missions when you include 1943-1945 was less than 4 percent per mission. Second, flak was the real threat throughout 1943-1945 as Bf-109 fighters were scarcely to be found near the "bomber boxes" by April 1944 due to fuel and pilot shortages. Flak vest was quite helpful in most circumstances faced by bomber crews. For in-depth coverage of WWII aviation, see Bismarck channel on RUclips with ruclips.net/video/-v5aMayFrRE/видео.html as a great starter.
Thanks for the link
Good response Samuel.
1943 missions, not a lot of crews made the 25 mission mark.
1944 Early, many crews made it.
1944 Late, most crews made it,
1945 nearly all crews made it.
In fact, many bombers flew with reduced crews as the defensive guns were seldom needed as the fighter threat had been largely defeated.
Flak vests and helmets helped lots vs Flak shell bits. Nothing will save you from a .50 cal or larger hit.
YES, the THUNDERBOLTs in late 1943-mid 1944 did the most to reduce the quantity and quality of LW pilots facing the bombers. The MUSTANG was just the last few nails in the coffin. The Germans lacked domestic oil production which hobbled everything that they did or could do. Who won the war? The countries with oil (or unfettered access to oil)! USA, USSR, and the British Empire.
The vid gives the maximum altitude. Combat flying altitudes were 22k-24k ft. No coincidence that this was just above the altitude where performance of the Fw190 started to fall off rapidly.
@@68RatVette Not to mention most experienced German pilots had either been killed or shot down and captured over the eastern front and during the air battles over the English channel. I believe too Bf109's had smaller fuel tanks so their operation times were very small compared to a Spitfire or Thunderbolt. The just couldn't really engage in dogfights. Especially since during the times after 1943 most of the pilots were very inexperienced and going up against hardened veterans of the allied airforces.
Samuel Thompson, Those statistics were at the time when the long-range P-51 Mustang escort fighters were not yet available at the time. When the P-51s were available to provide the B-17s on a round-trip escort protection, the lost rate decreased significantly.
@@spreadeagled5654 I don't know what this video meant about a "25 - 33% return rate." The loss rates for the absolute worst American missions like the two Schweinfurt raids of 1943 were about 25% which to me would mean a 75% return rate. This blew my mind - the RUclipsr that I hugely respect for his serious mechanical and historical credibility makes a very compelling case that the P-47 Thunderbolt with the upgraded 1944 drop tanks could escort 8th Air Force bombers to Berlin. However, I suspect that by mid-1944, most of the P-47's had been reassigned as very effective, low-altitude fighter-bombers, leaving bomber escort duty to the P-51's. Here is Part 6 of a series Greg has been posting. ruclips.net/video/aCLa078v69k/видео.html
Boeing was like: ok we made these 12,730 B-17s what should we do now?
That one guy at work: how about just ONE more B-17!
The yellow vest isn't a Flak vest, it's a actually a life vest, the flak vest looks like the big vests they give you at the dentist when you get an X Ray
Jack Dawes Flak vest are typically bigger and thicker than the vest you get to protect from radiation and I think he just chose that picture cuz it’s the only picture with all the details and stuff
I had the opportunity to fly in one of them at an air show. I was absolutely shocked at how cramped and small it was inside. The guys who flew in these had balls of steel. All my respect. I was a grunt in Vietnam, I’ll take the ground any day. After the first mission flying in those I would’ve went awol. And the poor guy in the ball turret? Holy shit. If you’ve never been inside one try and do it. It will give you a whole new perspective on what they went through
cruising altitude for most missions were lower however at around 25,000 feet
This video taught me that being in a B-17 during WW2 was more hardcore than I imagined
don't sweat it, an excellent video... thanks for the post... rip to all who served on both sides of that terrible conflict.
Mark Bowles no actually, rip the allies, the axis powers were the ones who started the war and killed many many people.
TheRMSway ignorant. WW2 was a product of WW1...do some reading kid.
@@legokid-_-6902 a lot of people on the axis were just following orders
My great grandfather was a b17 pilot
KingGeorgeV's Kingdom my great grandfather was part of a german aa crew that shot down many b-17s
Foxy fox my grandfather was in the Vietnamese war and he got shot down while getting deployed. He didn’t even have a chance 😣
Just kiddin' my great grandfather lost his leg in the finnish winter war
Another Random Channel neither did my great grandfather. His leg froze and it had to be cut off during finnish winter war
My great grandfather was an SS officer or something. fucking nazi family tree.
My father was a tail gunner for 30 missions. Interesting fact, the vast majority of the crew would use an OD towel in lieu of the ol' silk scarf. The towel soaked up the slobber from the masks, the silk scarf did not. Also, flack vests were usually placed on the floor to protect from errant flack from below. The flack vest you are showing appears to be a life vest. Good video, I like the pacing and style, plus it's narrated by a human, which is a big plus. Keep it going. Thanks.
That really is even more hard to imagine doing especially in these times and with the weapons now that could really kill this kind of bomber vs what it was up against in WW2.
1:43 Excuse me? During WW2 _loss_ rates of more than 8% for single missions were not sustainable, anything above 10% would trigger a review and the 16% loss rate on Schweinfurt-Regensburg is remembered as an unmitigated disaster. Single mission return rates would typically be around 95%. (Which is still increadibly leathal, given you need to fly ~30 missions each with a 5% chance to become a casulty).
No, that is to simplistic of an approach. Operation Chastise, the Dambusters raid had a loss rate of 42%, so over twice the loss rate of an unmitigated disaster. Don't that anybody
would call the Dambusters raid an unmitigated disaster, times two.
@@jamesfinlay8180 Operation Chastise was a very specific niche operation conducted by a specialist unit with extensive preparation and training. It's far from representative for the air war. And even that is still pretty far from the 25% return(!) rate claimed in the video.
@@SeriousStrategyGamer Yes exactly, to judge the success of a mission other issues must be considered, not just loss rate.
To be fair, very few things could stop an AP 20mm.
NeedsMoreBoosters ap against aircrafts is pretty useless they used HE
@tbone9513
If I remember correctly, they usually use Minengeschoss.
@@awfullygenericname6783 I have one out back somewhere.
maus be like:
@@awfullygenericname6783 To be fair, Id rather get pierced by an AP round, than have my body turned into a fine red mist sprayed all over the inner fuselage
My grandfather flew a B-17. Crazy that he was 6'4 and still able to get in the cockpit.
I'd only be impressed if he got into the ball turret.
WE HAD US P ILOTS STAY WITH US WHEN ON LEAVE THEN ONE DAY THEY DID NOT RETURN AND WE COULDNT FIND OUT ANYTHING ABOUT THEM CAPT SMITH WAS ONE HIS NAME HAD ORIGINALLY BEEN SMIT AND THE OTHER JOE WAS A NORWEGIAN CO PILOT WE TRIED AFTER THE WAR TO GET INFO FROM US AUTHORITIES SO WE COULD WRITE ABOUT THEM TO THEIR FAMILIES BUT NEVER COULD GET THAT INFO.
I've been in the cockpit of a B-17. At 6'2" I can say he must've barely fit. I had a book when I was a kid it mentioned an F-18 pilot who was 6'9". I'm not sure I'd trust those straps on the ejection seat to pull my legs back if I needed to eject.
@@9HighFlyer9 -No way, his head would have been out of the canopy
I was friends with a 94-year old woman who served at the Colorado Air Force base where the B-17 crews trained. She said they were mostly short and cocky and when you see WWII leather flight jackets in museums you'll notice that most are rather small in size. I have been and flown in B-17s several times and at 6' tall and with a build I have difficulty getting by the top turret's base and through the bomb bay catwalk.
The "Flak Vest" is a mae west, a life jacket. The flak vest was an apron that would be an OD color or sometimes black.
Trivia: Anybody know why it was called a Mae West? 😘
@@afghosting8772 it made you look like you had tits
Very good video.
Hello from BRAZIL 🇧🇷.
0:34 The B-29 was called the Superfortress. The Stratofortress is the B-52.
My Dad flew in a B-17 during 1944 - 1945. He was the Radio man. Now, His right arm was 2 inches shorter than his left arm and he was a lefty. And the parachutes had the rip cord handle on the left side so you needed to have a strong right arm to pull it.
Well... on his 15th mission, after the bomb run, the B-17 was on its way out of German territory when it was hit by fire from a German fighter and disabled. The pilot was able to keep the plane flying until it got into Belgium air space and then issued the get out order. My dad, along with his crew jumped. On the way down, my dad used his right arm to try to pull the rip cord but the strength just wasn't there. He was unable to pull his rip cord. With the ground getting closer he thought quickly and brought his left hand up to his right arm and pulled downward. The parachute deployed and he, along with his crew, landed safely in Belgium. They found a farm house where they were fed and given a place to sleep and were reunited with their unit and returned safely to England.
For support of the following please see Freeman's series of books on the 8th AF. I have know idea what the video means by their return stats of 25-33%, Prior to the arrival of the Merlin-engined P-51B/C/D long-range escort fighter these numbers could mean the chance of a crew completing its 25 mission tour of duty. The 8th AF's goal was an aircraft return rate per mission of 90 % plus. There were a significant number of missions in mid to late 1943 where the return rate was less than 70%. Of that number a further 30 % of the original strike force were damaged beyond repair. The October 1943 raid on Schweinfurt was especially bloody. It is well chronicled by both Freeman and in Martin Caidin's BLACK THURSDAY.
Really underrated channel. Keep it up!
All non- pilot crew would assemble amidships for takeoff and landing to make it the center of gravity. Yes, you could access the tail gun position, not necessarily easy, but doable, not only the tail wheel but camera equipment was mounted back there to take strike photo's. The "G" had what I think was called the "Cheyenne" turret- like mount which afforded a greater field of fire than the earlier models which were simply pair of guns mounted on a swivel. My father was a tail gunner, he flew this and earlier models, he said the "G" was much better thanks to the waist gun windows that cut down on the wind that would come blasting down the fuselage and exit out through his position, he stated the electric suits never could keep up with the chill factor and it was always bitterly cold back there. He also said it was the loneliest station being so remote from the rest of the crew, even the ball turret gunner had company. Additionally, it was his job to give an element position and strike report- for obvious reasons- so he was one busy guy back there. And finally, after a mission one day the crew was over the channel near home, gathered amidships and bs'ing- it was considered "safe skies"- when a lone wolf ME or FW jumped them, he said all hell broke loose with everybody scrambling to get back to their station, he said he managed to give the guy a good "Stitching" when he made another pass, and flew off.
As you mentioned the yellow “flak vest,” you highlighted the “Mae west,” which is not a flak vest at all, but an inflatable life vest for water survival. The actual flak vest is a heavy vest/apron worn over the entire flight suit/gear for protection against flak shrapnel, and not intended for protection against 20mm cannon shells anyway.
The B-17 remains to be my favorite aircraft in the world
Where do you get the 25 % - 33 % loss figure? The heaviest single mission % loss figure I'm aware of was Second Schweinfurt, where some 22 % of the B-17s that took off were shot down or crash-landed (17 more were scrapped). The average loss per sortie during the worst period of the war, the unescorted deep penetration missions from July-October 1943, was 9.3 %, not "25-33%".
25-33 % is a relevant statistic, I recall, but it was more like the average chance a B-17 crewman had of completing all 25 missions without becoming a casualty during the worst period of the war. The chances were pretty good you wouldn't be becoming back whole, if at all.
Good video!
Good Work.
B: the percentages you quoted were some of the things they estimated about total loss of an aircraft Squadron not the other way around.
WWII, when technology at its best was half met/understood. Men, cramped up into tiny spaces, not just the bombers, but the fighters as well. I understand being born into country/political righteousness/favoritism, but war sucks, and outside off being told what to do, most enemies, could probably be friends. In 10 years every soldier of WWII will be gone. Maybe a few children might remember early stories, but the soldiers will be gone. No more live video recordings, or told stories from grandpa, to grandchild. Just whatever( limited) videos exist. So, to all soldiers, thank you for serving, friend or foe. Respect, and love. All sides had an amazing story to tell.
great videos.. could you also include factuals in metric system? thx
There are two types of countries: those that use the metric system and those that have sent men to the moon.
Gary Odle metric system > every other system you bitch
Has your nation sent men to the moon with your petty metric system? No.
USA landed to the moon thanks to german technology, and germans use metric system.
Gary Odle I suggest you check your facts, NASA uses the metric system and did so when they sent men to the moon.
Just out of curiously, if they had to go to the bathroom, where did they go ?, I'm assuming some sought of built in thingy in their flight suit, but it is never mentioned ?.
You deserve a subscription
can you do a video on the Mitsubishi A6M Zero?
My great grandpa worked one one of those. He was the bottom ball turret. He would tell me how he could look straight down at the ground. He’s a really cool grandpa
Keep doing videos in this style.
I was fortunate enough to fly on one at an air show. The men who served on those were amazing. One thing you forgot was to include the weight of the huge balls those brave men had!!!
Would the BF109’s 7.7 mils go through the vest?
My father was a left waist gunner on a B24 and some of the stories he told of how crew that was so badly wounded that they would not survive to return to base, had parachutes put on them by the rest of the crew and dropped out of the bomb bay to parachute in to German hands, in order to survive.
Also sometimes crew traded gear with British crew and as he did, and found that British gear did not fit the American chutes, US harnesses had 4 attachment points English harnesses had 5. He found that out the hard way when he had to jump when his plane was shot down, he made it but had to get the chute attached with one hand, he had been hit with flak fragments and had his nose almost removed and left arm broken and when he landed he broke both legs, and spent six months in a German air force hospital and then 2 years in a pow camp.
RIP (2006) my father, Lt. Stanley P. Friedman, bombardier in the 8th Air Corps, 1943-45. 36 missions and "not a scratch on him" even when the entire crew had to bail out over England in the fog after a mission. All survived, "airplane complete destruction." His best words imparted to me about life after wartime when facing difficulties: "If I can get through the war, I can get through this." He also said "And I'd do it again." He was one tough son-of-a-bitch!
Also wanted to add: When the order of "Bail out!" was given in the B-17 as the plane ran out of fuel, one guy put his chute on like all the others but froze - he wouldn't or couldn't jump, he was just paralyzed with fear. My Dad said there was no time to talk to him or convince him to jump. Instead, two guys just grabbed him and threw him out of the airplane! He was fine. They all were fine, no injuries.
"The Wrong Stuff" is a really great autobiographical book written by a former B-17 co-pilot, Truman Smith. A truly funny, exciting, matter-of-fact yet also touching book about overcoming adversity. As a 20-year-old inexperienced US bomber pilot, away from home for the first time, Smith describes all the 1001 things that can go south in a hurry, when ten young men with no experience are put in a worn-out, rusty B-17. Broken hydraulic and electrical systems, insufficient heating in the extreme cold of 10,000 feet, and ten scared big boys in uniform - a potentially deadly mix, even without the enemy flak and fighters. Despite all this "wrong stuff, 2nd Lt. Truman Smith manages not only to stay alive and sane. He also retain his sense of humor, comradeship and to focus on his real mission: to lose his virginity! A mission that may prove even more daunting than 35 combat mission in the skies over Europe!?
A: that yellow thing you pointed to as a flag vest was actually it a inflatable lifesaver called the Mae West and inflated using a little CO2 cartridge.
im just curious, does each of the 10 man bomber crew carries a pistol? or only the commander of the plane carried one?
At 0:35 the B-29 is the Superfortress not stratofortress
Quick note that at some point during the war they must've started training men to jump out of the planes and use their chutes, and how to land safely so they werent injured. I know this because it was my grandfather's job to train them on it. He spent a good portion of his WW2 military service doing this. Maybe not everyone was trained, but many were.
1:17 Understatement of the century. I think if you took a direct hit from a 20mm you would just explode.
My great grandfather was a tail gunner and he had a piece of flak fly into his left knee he was decommissioned after the incident but worked at a munitions factory
My great grandfather bombed German weapons factories with one of those. He and his crew nearly died on his 25th mission. My grandpa had a huge amount of shrapnel in his foot (he was the pilot) and in a dogfight in the same mission, he nearly lost the whole left wing of the b-17. Then after my grandfather was sent back to the states, he never saw the plane again because it was repaired and then another crew used it and was shot out of the sky and into the ocean.
0:33 it wasn't the B-29 Stratofortress , it was the B-29 SuperFortress, the StratoFortress is the B-52
Add to the liitle time to get out, the fact that you likely be pulling overwhelming and swiftly changing Gs.
I got to ride in one a couple years back, and at 6', 200lbs, I could barely squeeze into the top turret or rear turret positions (forget the ball turret.) Although the WW2 kids were likely smaller, they were probably my size with their equipment. I don't really see how anyone could help them if they were shot and wounded. What a hell of a way to fight a war.
Informative! Great channel you got here. Please do one of the He-162, if you can. Thanks!
Those "unstylish 40lbs vests" saved god knows how many lifes. It was far more likely that you'd be struck by shrapnel from an airburst than take a direct hit from a 20mm autocannon.
B-29 Superfortress. The Stratofortress is the B-52. With this fundamental error how do we know the rest of the information is correct?
Can you do a video on what made the Japenese Zero special? Thanks :D
killing pearl-harbers american marines
Pearl Harbor*
The Japanese Zero was around for a long time before the Pearl Harbor attack and extensively used in the Sino-Japanese war. It was feared by many even before US Involvement in the war. It'd be an interesting topic to do a video on.
I'm very happy you're triggered :).
Kamikaze attacks perhaps?
Kamikaze attacks weren't used until very late in the war when they knew they had no chance of winning. They were also done by planes specifically made for Kamikaze attacks were NOT the Mitsubishi A6M series.
well if u know all answers do a video about it =P
Name of the music?
I have seen two of these aircraft one on fire and over Naperville Illinois then one in a museum on the highway
My grandfather was in Bitish Army during WW2. He escaped the Japanese by driving a jeep from Burma to India and due to long drive he had a permanent neck injury. I'm from Bangladesh.
My son flew a B-17.
destinationpsp nice
How old are you exactly?
destinationpsp.
You must be goddamn old.
If you had a son at 20 years old... and he became 19 so you’re around 110 years old
Plausible
are you on your second life
Cool facts; like it was...
Man, those boys were real brave men!
For those asking for metric equivalents: 287 mph = 461.88 kph; 35000 ft = 10668 metres; 10000 feet = 3048 metres; -40 is -40 in both C and F!
It's the b-29 Superfortress and the b-52 Stratofortress, not sure which one your were talking about but assuming b-29
thank you
Background music ??
Please could you make a similar video on the crew of a Lancaster.
These guys flew at night. During the winter months of 1943 to '44, RAF Bomber Command attacked Berlin in a sustained effort to bring the war to an end. Flak, icing, fog, full moon, airborne radar, grown radar, heavily armed nightfighters, target indicators, Pathfinders, Bomber Stream, radio counter measures, IFF, Gee, Oboe, 4,000lb cookie, H2s radar, Schrager Musik.
The difference between what the 8th AF crews experienced to that of RAF BC was vast.
So I think you should help folks in the USA understand what these guys went through. It was a different kind of hell.
Ta.
Just wanted to point out what you were calling the flack vest is not the flak fast it is the Mae West vest which is a life preserver which would be blown up with two CO2 cartridges so they could float in the ocean
DO MORE STUFF!
Everyone should watch The Cold Blue (2018). Think it was dangerous to be exposed to lack of oxygen, freezing temperatures, enemy flak and enemy fighters shooting at you? Try just getting airborne with a full bomb load, then swirling up to meet the rest of your squadron without hitting one another, then making a bombing run in broad daylight and if you survived your flight over enemy territory, you still had to make it home...sometimes without one or two engines, missing part of your tail, and full of all kinds of holes.
The B-17 isn't exactly my personal favorite WW2 bomber. But the *real* problem with using the B-17 is not the plane itself, it was the problem of fighter escort protection, and the B-17 was supposed to solve this particular problem as it had those .50 Caliber Machine guns and so it was felt that a fighter escort protection wasn't needed for the B-17, and consequently all B-17 Bombing Raids had no fighters to protect it. This problem was solved when the P-51D Mustang was invented as it had the range to protect the Allied Bombers.
If you think the WWII humor regarding the defective parachute is that bad, I have a friend who was a former Army helicopter pilot who flew CH-47 Chinooks and UH-1 Hueys during the Vietnam War. He told me that the pilots were instructed by their flight manuals and also were verbally told by their flight instructors: if the helicopter is disabled for any reason in an emergency, they are to “exit the aircraft.”
OK, we are to “exit the aircraft.” What???? With the aircraft on fire and at 3,000-5,000 ft. altitude with no parachute? (Chopper crews don’t have parachutes) Yeah right! Very funny, for those who are being shot at while doing the flying! That’s Vietnam era humor at its best/worst! He said that was “very funny” indeed as he was shot down 3 times with severe injuries during the Vietnam War and suffered PTSD for years afterwards and wanted nothing to do with aviation. Not even to fly on an airplane today.
Yeah, “very funny” indeed! 😡.
One of the factors that increases mortality of bomber crews is the size of the aircraft bullets and that they had hours to get to home if they needed medical help.
Do Lancaster
At 0:35 it a superfortress not stratofortress
Great video but you got a couple things wrong but the biggest one was the b-29 it called the superfortress as the stratofortress is a bigger plane with turbine jets on.
1:10 nothing Can stop a 20mm and be light enough for a man to carry
My Great Uncle was the Navigator on one of those. He helped drop bombs over Germany
Expected rates of return were 25-33%? Did you just make the video up as you went along?
That is true
"Statistics at the time showed that each crew member had an average of a 1 in 4 chance of making it or about 12 to 14 missions."
B29 stratofortress?
B29 was nicknamed superfortress, not stratofortress, but great video!
THIS GUY IS VERY SMART
That remark about the parachute isn't true. I once had a parachute not open for me and when I tried to return it they did not give me a new one.
Your voice is zo cool
They also had flak helmets.
B29 *SUPERFORTRESS* the stratofortess was the b52.
nice
The 29 is the super fortress and the 52 is the stratofortress
BEEE SEVENTH BAWMERR!
12,731 produced at $240,000.00 each equals 3.3 million dollars? What am I missing here.
$240,000.00 per B-17 then would = $3.3 million dollars per B-17 now= a perfectly USELESS STATISTIC (lol)
I felt so bad learning that the return rate was 25-33% and the crew was usually 19-20 yo.
You mean b29 super fortress
My great grandfather was a copilot if a B-29 super fortress and crash landed in the Yellow Sea
B-29 is not stratofortress it is super fortress
Damm what a badass plane
Wait, the B-52 is called Stratofortress, and the B-29 was called the Superfortress, i'ma right?
Seems like you talked about crew wear not the actual bomber. Still interesting
19. holy shit! Makes sense doe
Ain't the B-29 called the superfortress and the B-52 is the stratofortress?
and he ain't gonna jump no more!
Awsome vid keep it up
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