I was born in 95 but didn't play around with it until I was about 4 or 5. I decided I was doing my due diligence (I guess anyways; I was a child) and was moving folders to the Recycle Bin. Needless to say, I was impressed at both my mother for not getting angry at me, and her using MS-DOS to restore the WINDOWS folder.
I have insight on this. Um, they're either incompetent when it comes to windows. Or, they're the kind who can just, fix everything, make it into a live server, connect multiple computers, media box, ect. Knows the codes for error, if its the graphics card, cpu, ram, motherboard, powersupply, under violated, or volted, history of the chips, connectors, etc. You name it. But also think you're incompetent and that windows is not for the end user to use, also, the best version is enterprise, yada yada powershell better.
Windows 11 has similar issues to Windows 10, the most famous with the Start menu freezing or crashing. Microsoft dont know whats causing it. Unreliable Microsoft are.
TBH you can't do anything with that crappy old windows 98, windows 10 and 11 were great even better than piece of crap unoptimized windows 7.. some times truth hurts bro and you've blinded by nostalgia and that's the problem..My PC feels like a beast after watching old windows OS builds..
On the flip side, I'm elated to know the younger folk are interested and learning about older systems. '98 was a fun system back then to have, I miss the theming it had.
I have a dedicated Windows 98 PC that I use for retro games, software, and I connect it to the internet from time to time, mostly to do retro web browsing via the internet archive. Never had any problems. It can't even connect to most modern sites (and probably vise-versa) because it's so outdated. It's probably like you said, security by obscurity. Anyone looking to hack computers doesn't really have a reason to target Win9x anymore.
@redpheonix1000 Very true. I have an old Dell Windows XP laptop, and even with an (outdated) anti virus installed my router has blocked various threats.
Weird to think I used to install games on DOS 5.0 and 98 seemed like a huge improvement over Win 95. And this man was not even born when 98 was out. I feel ancient.
I'm actually quite interested in how 2000 SP4 vs XP RTM vs fully updated XP would end up, if there were any patches that actually made a difference in the long run
I remember that W2K SP0 would be infected before you finished updating it. This was with a DSL modem directly connected to the internet. You had to remember to only connect to the internet *after* everything was set up and firewalled. I used the ZoneAlarm firewall back in those days.
XP SP2 and later is going to win by virtue of the included firewall that is active by default . I'd expect 2000 SP4 to be slightly better than XP RTM by virtue of having four years of security patches over the original XP. Early XP may still win out if the original and more limited "Internet Connection Firewall" is enabled. This was rarely done in practice, so it's arguably an artificial setup. Third party firewalls like ZoneAlarm were more commonly used.
@@AndreDeLimburger With the ports exposed I’m pretty sure yes. EternalBlue is also a big issue on XP and 2000, though some versions of XP famously got the patch not all computers have it.
He is running Windows 7 under Proxmox which is a virtualization OS based on Debian. I believe he is accessing the Win7 installation using Remmina or from the Proxmox "console". He appears to be viewing it with a Linux flavor running KDE.
I remember in college connecting unpatched version of xp to the internet for the first time and got what felt like hundreds of malware in minutes. This was in the 00’s.
@@Fra93TheGrande probably, or could have been something special about the college network, it had one of the fastest internet connections at the time but maybe it was insecure.
@@mho...32 bit shouldn't be too hard but 16 bit becomes unbearable. Feeding an 16 bit OS a 32 bit image would be like giving a cola to a victorian child
@@anon7149 first of all: victorian age children where well acquainted with cocaine(cola) 😅 and being a 90s teenager, i still have a bunch 16/32 bit games in a box somewhere, its not that outlandish! all these modern systems just dont know how to deal with many of them unfortunately, if you dont use emulators!...and even then its a tough pill to swallow for modern systems in any case!
@@anon7149 well, some stupid snowflake censored/deleted my reply, because it talked about the historic fact of cola's original ingredient, being well known to children in the victorian age🙄 ...... but being a 90s teenager, i still own a bunch of old 32/16 bit programs in a box somewhere ^^ and basically none of them can be used/run on any modern machine! even emulators struggle sometimes to execute a 16 bit one on modern machines!...but they are still out there 😆
hackers before: I got into your pc, internet, bank account, stole your files, and corrupted your bios, bye bye hackers nowdays: click herez to get robux but there is still lots of vulnerable software, and it is still possible to hack into any device
You need to port forward past your NAT. Your router is blocking any external connections to your internal IP. Unless you visit a bad site or initiate a bad connection from your host nothing is going to happen unless you are already comprised on your network. Having an old operating system is only dangerous if you actually use it.
I assume you mean by Expose as in connect directly to the internet without a router firewall. Because router firewalls pretty much stop everything unless you're visiting websites with that Windows 98 browser.
@@alandobrowski2876 I have a piece of test equipment that runs Windows XP embedded and I've not any issues. But for safety, I blocked the internet to that device at the router.
That's why Windows 98 is the better operating system. You might not even going to need anti virus if malware evolves where it can't run on 9x systems. If you want to use a 9x operating system I choose 98. Because it's the most stable and more designed for the internet. The one mars probe even still operates on Windows 98.
@1:17 you could install it into a different folder if you wanted to break 70% of all software out there. At one point I had a system without a C: - so much stuff just broke...
On windows 98, SMB is not turned on by default. You need to turn it on via the control panel networking applet. One thing to try is to install Microsoft PWS. Could the content you serve affect whether or not you get "hacked"?
Takes me back to the good old days. For a while with Windows 2000/XP there was the sasser worm, like you would expose any PC running Windows 2000 to the internet and it was a matter of minutes until lsass.exe was exploited.
Sasser is from 2004, Windows 2000 received its last update in 2017 so it must have been the RTM version of 2k that got infected. WinXP received its last updates in 2019, both are immune to the Sasser worm. So all these people who connect WinXP or 2k to the internet do it with the release version. Probably for clicks.
98 was still vulnerable to certain DoS which was patched in 98SE (which to my recollection had NO ports open upon install). I remember back in the day working on 98SE and it was more secure than anything else - however - I had hacked the kernal, removed fiolog.vxd and enabled NTFS and other things, and bundled it into the installation. Quite sure the vanilla 98SE was the more "secure out of the box" of all windows to date.
I'm often amazed when people get up in arms over connecting your ancient machines to the internet. After a certain point, malware developers cease targeting those old platforms. You don't see anything targeting Win9x because nobody builds malware for the 9x kernel anymore, if you installed something like KernelEx (an NT compatibility layer for 9x) you might get some issues, because malware IS built for the NT kernel, but that's likely the only instance where you may see issues. The same can likely be said for MacOS 7-9, nobody targets those systems because NOT ONLY are they outdated operating systems that nobody runs anymore, but they also run on a vastly different architecture than most current computers on the market. Connecting NT-based systems to the internet with no firewall is suicide, though.
Completely and confidently incorrect. Malware hosts to this day scan for old OSes precisely because of their use in important outdated equipment. Connecting anything older than windows 7 to the Internet without a strict whitelist firewall WILL result in infection. Usually within a day. Windows 7 is also questionable at this point.
@@skycaptain95 So... about that. I have a PowerMac G4, an iMac G3, and a Windows 98SE machine that regularly stay connected to the internet, and occasionally run for days on end. I have NEVER had any sort of malware on those systems. None of those operating systems are particularly chatty, they don't run many network services, and with any decent firewall (even just the basic one your normal consumer router provides) there's very little chance of an infection unless you're stupid and try to browse untrusted sites with outdated browsers. I have network services I want to access on those machines to pull applications from my Unraid server, and I haven't had any issues at all. Now, if we're talking fully exposing the systems to the internet, with no firewall, or hell, just a direct connection to your modem, then yes, that is a colossally stupid move, and you WILL get an infection sooner rather than later. But this isn't true if you're doing it like I, a normal human bean, does it. Hypothetically, it opens me up to malware. Realistically, it just lets my legacy systems use my network services.
@@skycaptain95 Well, youtube decided to eat my previous attempt at a reply, but the short version is: If you have even a semi-competent firewall (even the one your basic consumer router provides) this isn't an issue. I have multiple classic MacOS machines, and a Win98SE machine that are regularly connected to my network to gain access to locally hosted network services, that have never gained any sort of malware by doing so. If you're connecting it directly, without a firewall, then yes, that's a colossally dumb move, but with a firewall? Pretty safe, actually. Outdated NT based OSes are where dragons lie, because those OSes have far more active network services that might connect themselves to the internet, and thus be infected remotely. Win9x and MacOS 7-9 don't really have those issues, some of them have updaters, but those are easily disabled. Is it something I'd recommend everyone do? Hell no. But is it as disastrously, cataclysmically dangerous as everyone says? Also no.
However there might be lots of legacy systems running very old OS's and no one's had the bravery to upgrade their os's... It does happen. LArge companies sometimes hide dirty secrets like a business critical application that's been running for 25 years, the source code was lost years ago and thus no one dares touch it...
@@MasterFrag91 yes, a strict whitelist firewall is really the best protection you can get (aside from not being a dumbass). We don't fundamentally disagree.
He maybe french-canadian because I do speak similarly as I am french canadian myself and learn from different countries ways to speak english while english canadian don’t have this problem cause it’s settled. But yeah he’s from canada on his profile.
In the early 2000s I found thousands of Win98 machines that were directly exposed to the internet without a router or firewall. I was scanning the IP range of my local ISP for port 139 and found a lot of hosts that could be accessed via Windows Explorer (not IE). I could mount remote partitions (incl. drive c with full access), I could even send data to their printers. In a nutshell....it was fun, a lot of fun. Then more people used XP and routers. My script-kid-hacking-skills were no longer working.
It might surprise you to know that many people did that on purpose. We weren’t really concerned about security at that time. (See Microsoft ActiveX) So we thought it was really cool to share a common WORKGROUP on the Internet and explore each other’s shares! We’d share stuff on our machines inside corporate networks too. I learned about some of the best Web Comics that way.
I had internets only since 2004 when ADSL got more popular in my country (Poland) and due to mostly performance/memory reasons I and almost everyone I knew still used Windows 98SE/Me and it was the case for quite a while. Some people did use modems to access internets as it was the cheapest available option. To be honest I didn't experience any issues whatsoever being behind NAT and only at he very beginning trying to use InternetExplorer - it would quickly devolve in to pop-up hell and computer slowing down in to a crawl. After switching to Mozilla (FF wasn't even a thing a the time funnily enough - and when it was it sucked balls so yeah... ) and then quickly to faster Opera I literally didn't have any issues with attacks or malware. BTW. You can still use Mozilla browser as SeaMonkey and funnily enough there is use case for it over FF - MacType support. At least for secondary browser that isn't Chromium based (note: there is only Cent browser that supports MacType) SeaMonkey does a good job at lower memory requirements and modern web standard support.
There's some ancient information out on the web about that. People claim that IBM used to have hardware designed to limitlessly and arbitrarily nest virtual machines.
It's probably going to work, but you'll have massive CPU overhead And some VM software (such as Connectix/Microsoft Virtual PC and I think Hyper-V as well) can actually refuse to start if they detect they're running in a VM
Yeah, cool video. I still remember my family's old Windows 98 PC with a 600 MHz Pentium 3 and 128 MB RAM. It was the first machine I tried out Haskell on.
i think my favorite part of his videos over time is watching eric's accent transition from a british accent into more of a north american accent overtime (compare his download button videos to now), it's sounding more and more north american it's just interesting to hear an accent change between the two really quickly (he can sound british and north american within the same sentence sometimes and that is jarring)
As i know virtual box is free even for commercial use but extension packs isn't. unless the company even proactive chasing for using virtualbox without expansion packs.
@@albi2k88 I think some trainee downloaded Oracle VM from Oracle site and Oracle sales dug out company contacts and started to bombard that company is using unlicensed software and how many licenses you gonna buy..
Ahh. I remember back in the day subnet scanning for ftp sites and getting /etc/passwd and using jack the ripper so I could telnet in. Encryption sure messed everything up. I blame AOL getting internet access.
Not only is SMTP actively blocked, it's required by law. You have to sign an agreement with your ISP in order to get that port opened up for sending. I think it's part of the CAN-SPAM act.
I am working at a graphic firm, and we are well equiped with new machines but we still have 2 machines from early 2000, one is working on windows 95, other one on windows 98 its a blessing working on those systems
Your video looks quite good. What did you use to record this? when I try OBS studio on Win 98 VM I get blurry video and bad colors but you somehow have all text readable and even this red X icon on process explorer doesn't blend into gray but stays red.
To be fair, ReactOS barely runs ANYTHING properly. I love the idea of ReactOS, but it's clear that it'll never really go anywhere, it hasn't in the decade and a half I've been watching. you're better off just using any given Linux distro with Wine.
@@MasterFrag91 please dont shit on ReactOS. the work they have done is absolutely insane considering they had to reverse engineer dos, ntoskernel, and then windows apis, which is hard. wine is a much easier approach as it just converts windows api calls to linux/mac/android ones.
@@BakaTheSussy I wouldn't say I'm shitting on it, the work they've done is pretty crazy, but I can both admire the progress they've made, while simultaneously believing it won't go anywhere. It's a cool project, but it's effectively been in development for 28 years, and barely has compatibility for even Win9x programs, still has very little hardware compatibility, and even worse driver compatibility. As cool as it is, I suspect it will only ever be a niche experimental OS that no-one ever ACTUALLY uses.
@@MasterFrag91 last time i checked reactos was running xp era game pretty well. also there literly making there own binary compatble with windows os from litteral scrach thats not easy. where not talking a compatibility layer like wine but full native support.
Running a virtual machine with such an outdated VirtualBox version is a huge risk, because it will probably carry some nasty vulnerabilities which could enable attackers to breakout of the virtualized environment. This can lead to a situation where they will be able to aceess or attack your host machine. You were lucky...
If I was Microsoft, I would secretely scan the Internet for versions of Windows too unpopular and obsure to attract real hackers (or too sparce for speading a net worm). And then I would remotely exploit their vulnerabilities in order to freeze/reboot them. Thus anybody who wanted to achieve "security by obsurity" by using ancient Windows would experience nearly constant crashes and reboots the second they connect to the Internet
Sweet, I'm going back to Win98! Fingers crossed for Win2k, I absolutely loved that version. Close second favourite to Vista (no I'm not joking!) Back in the day it definitely wasn't safe, I remember getting net send spam messages on the Win2k NAS/torrent box I set up in my student house in about 2002 😂
Sorry, dude but this video is BS MS propaganda. They just want you to upgrade to the buggy and terrible Vista, but if you properly patch 98, you can still properly use it in 2007. Heck, Valve said Steam would stop working but it STILL WORKS!
or use xp if you still used a computer that couldn't run xp or 2000 in 2007 the internet would be way too laggy .i know we used it in school in 2007 and 95 too and only stopped in 2010
Yes, a modern residential router will block all these requests and you won't get infected from the Internet in this way. If other systems on your home network are malicious they could still get in. And of course if you use programs which access the network you could be opening a threat vector.
Did you enable File and Print Sharing from Control Panel > Network? (or right-clicking Network Neighborhood and choosing Properties). SMB is disabled unless this is done. If you didn't, it might be worth redoing this.
Were any online viruses ever written for Windows 3.1 or OS Warp 2? I know 3.1 had rudementary internet access with a browser and I don't know much about OS Warp
On Windows 3.1 with dial-up internet, you had a 3rd party TCP/IP stack, such as Trumpet. Windows for Workgroups 3.11 supported network cards, but initially no TCP/IP. There was an update installing a TCP/IP stack.
Nested virtualisation I guess requires guest OS cooperation? I can run the latest Debian at reasonable speeds, but I tried old Windows and OPENSTEP and it was absolutely atrocious. This was in Vbox in PVE on Skylake , other configurations may vary?
3:00 Frogfind would be more useful than google in this case. Frogfind is a search engine made specifically for old systems. Will work on IE3.0 which will run on Windows 3.11 which was the first windows version with native networking. You did have to install a browser from a CD, but it will work even in 2024. Likely very hard on a VM though. I did it on a real computer running DOS and 3.11.
That's such good news! That means I can still use my Windows 98 machine for DOS gaming, and being able to use the internet to download applications for it. 😅
so if i use a virtual machine with a simulated dial up connection and connect to the internet and just open up firefox and do nothing i will get infected and is proto web safe to use as in can i not get virus's on it because i want a safe way to use internet and email on win 98 for fun and i want to know what apps and settings to use
if im right then windows 7 was directly connected to the internet not behind any router right? and vbox was bridgin windows7's internet to the 98 vm meaning it effectively becomes a router of sorts and windows 7 does have a firewall so my theory is that it blocked all the incoming connections to any port FOR the 98 vm so nothing was able to get in you should also test vista
Man, you should had used PCem or 86Box. You put yourself trough a lot of pain trying to use VMWare (would had been the equally bad with VirtualBox). If curious, it was so slow because you where running in VGA mode with 16 colours, and VMWare sucks at translating that to whatever you use on your computer. Actually, a pointer, VMware just sucks in general, specially if you want to test older software :P
having started my pc saga on win3.11, its always fun to the old ui again ;) but lets be honest here.... what kind of bob would still write/keep-online tools to infect 25+ year old operating systems?!
2000 was getting infected extremely rapidly when exposed to the Internet some years ago. Problem got solved by home routers blocking inbound connections.
I was hoping you showed the install; I was bord one day and decided to install 98 on a DDr3 computer with a quadcore. It made me giggle to see the timer start at like 54min and then run the min down faster than seconds. will take 54..32...19...5 done.
maybe i am missing something why not just buy an old desktop load 98 on it and expose it. it would be closer to real world that way..who cares if the HDD gets infected..when done just wipe it or throw it away the HDD....is it because you would not be able to do screen capture?
Malware can be spread from an infected device to other devices in the network if it's sophisticated enough. He could probably set up a repeater and isolated Internet connection for it though.
this is super scary lolol so this happens on only older versions or any version if the firewall is off? also isnt win 7 also vulnerable? its out of service for so long now
I had this Windows 7 because I was trying to see if it would work on 7. It doesn't seem to (a few days with nothing). Exposed to the internet with no firewall, it seems to have the most trouble on XP. It requires that the OS have some vulnerability, and that malware is actively out their trying to exploit it. Plenty of XP worms still going around, 98 and earlier don't have a lot of open ports.
Depends on their hypervisors. You can easily go three layers deep if you play your cards right. QEMU or KVM are good starting points whereas the likes of VirtualBox or VirtualPC should only be used in the last step unless you accelerate them heavily.
Malicious servers scan the internet for vulnerable IPs 24/7, as outdated computers are still in service for banking, medical, or personal use (among other things). The IPv4 address space is very large, but not so large that a botnet cannot comb through it. Especially when they know which blocks are likely to contain their targets.
@@skycaptain95 the IPv4 space is indeed large, however its mostly mapped too so the scanners can ignore all the datacenters and webservers and go straight to scanning end users.
@@skycaptain95 odd how my reply got blocked by YT...all I said was the address space is well known and they can skip all the businesses, datacenters, webservers and go straight for home users.
@@cours458 Yes. There are only 4 billion possible IPv4 addresses. If you only scan 1000 IPs per second it will only take about 40 days to scan the entire Internet. If you have a botnet it will go even faster, and of course there are thousands of entities doing this.
I do not see where the problem is. I used windows 98 with internet without any problem. If you want to run it get an intel pentium cpu. If you want to emulate it, you probably will not run. As the latest version works with multi core multithread processors. Assembler subsets that did not exist in 1998.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
"the operational system is older than I am" I feel so old. I got the physical version upon launch
I still remember using MS DOS, Windows 3.1, 95, 98, Millennium (never used 2000) and later iterations. When he said that i felt like an ancient mummy.
Aight unc
I was born in 95 but didn't play around with it until I was about 4 or 5. I decided I was doing my due diligence (I guess anyways; I was a child) and was moving folders to the Recycle Bin. Needless to say, I was impressed at both my mother for not getting angry at me, and her using MS-DOS to restore the WINDOWS folder.
Me too... I remember upgrading from 95. I was like 14 at the time but still...
I actually got 3.1. Not at launch, but it was before 95 existed, and only because I didn't had a computer in 1992. I am older than that still 🥲
next video: what happens if you expose yourself to a Microsoft employee
Dr mario
@@poochychin 💀 what?
I have insight on this. Um, they're either incompetent when it comes to windows.
Or, they're the kind who can just, fix everything, make it into a live server, connect multiple computers, media box, ect. Knows the codes for error, if its the graphics card, cpu, ram, motherboard, powersupply, under violated, or volted, history of the chips, connectors, etc. You name it. But also think you're incompetent and that windows is not for the end user to use, also, the best version is enterprise, yada yada powershell better.
You get an invite to Little Saint James 2: James Harder if they know Bill.
😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
Up next: Exposing an abacus to the internet in 2024.
that beads it !
Exposing enigma to the internet. 😆
Abacus: 🦠🧫🤧😷🤒🦠🧫🦠🧫
😂😂😂
Yes, I learned in the first grade to use one during math. This was in Germany.
Microsoft: We've got problems. They hate windows 11 so much they're trying to downgrade to 98.
Windows 11 has similar issues to Windows 10, the most famous with the Start menu freezing or crashing. Microsoft dont know whats causing it. Unreliable Microsoft are.
TBH you can't do anything with that crappy old windows 98, windows 10 and 11 were great even better than piece of crap unoptimized windows 7.. some times truth hurts bro and you've blinded by nostalgia and that's the problem..My PC feels like a beast after watching old windows OS builds..
@@FloatSamplesGT710 maybe is cuz its from the 1998s 💀 anit no way your trying to ego boost with poop windows 11 spy ware 💀
@@YeahImFormula any windows from windows 1.0 to windows 7 is dogshit 💩💀
@@FloatSamplesGT710no windows 11 is dog shit windows 9X and Windows 2000-10 and windows 3.1X is better
"This operating system is older than I am"... and suddenly I just felt a whole lot older than I already felt
Well a video made by a dumb teenager that does not know what is he doing and googles everything
Same. Grew up with Windows 3.1, 95 and 98. I thought Eric is a fellow Millennial or a Gen Xer.
Same lol I started learning front end in 99 so I remember installing win 98 from win 95! 😅
cp/m here :\
On the flip side, I'm elated to know the younger folk are interested and learning about older systems. '98 was a fun system back then to have, I miss the theming it had.
I have a dedicated Windows 98 PC that I use for retro games, software, and I connect it to the internet from time to time, mostly to do retro web browsing via the internet archive. Never had any problems. It can't even connect to most modern sites (and probably vise-versa) because it's so outdated. It's probably like you said, security by obscurity. Anyone looking to hack computers doesn't really have a reason to target Win9x anymore.
Another reason is that you're also probably connecting it behind a firewall (your router), which does most of the blocking work already.
Negative IQ comment.
@redpheonix1000 Very true. I have an old Dell Windows XP laptop, and even with an (outdated) anti virus installed my router has blocked various threats.
its well known he infects his own pcs. i dought there is any dos/windows 98 virus even still active.
Until now....moooohahahahaaa!!
You forgot to imitate those dial up modem beeps verbally
Fun fact: not everyone heard dial up modem beeps. Especially when you are younger than Win98.
Weird to think I used to install games on DOS 5.0 and 98 seemed like a huge improvement over Win 95. And this man was not even born when 98 was out. I feel ancient.
I’m born in 2003 and I wish I was born before 1990 so I could experience the technological revolution that was happening haha
I'm actually quite interested in how 2000 SP4 vs XP RTM vs fully updated XP would end up, if there were any patches that actually made a difference in the long run
Are Blaster and Sasser still around?
I remember that W2K SP0 would be infected before you finished updating it. This was with a DSL modem directly connected to the internet. You had to remember to only connect to the internet *after* everything was set up and firewalled. I used the ZoneAlarm firewall back in those days.
@@moardargons8160 so did xp gold
XP SP2 and later is going to win by virtue of the included firewall that is active by default . I'd expect 2000 SP4 to be slightly better than XP RTM by virtue of having four years of security patches over the original XP. Early XP may still win out if the original and more limited "Internet Connection Firewall" is enabled. This was rarely done in practice, so it's arguably an artificial setup. Third party firewalls like ZoneAlarm were more commonly used.
@@AndreDeLimburger With the ports exposed I’m pretty sure yes. EternalBlue is also a big issue on XP and 2000, though some versions of XP famously got the patch not all computers have it.
Bro is running windows 98 inside of windows 7 inside of... *W H A T*
Their host OS is most likely Linux because of the use of KDE's kwin and Konsole at some points of the video
Makes me feel like I'm in the Matrix.
@@system128the host os is proxmox, he said so in the video, the kde you see is because he is using a web kvm to see the vm
He is running Windows 7 under Proxmox which is a virtualization OS based on Debian. I believe he is accessing the Win7 installation using Remmina or from the Proxmox "console". He appears to be viewing it with a Linux flavor running KDE.
@@system128 yeah i think Proxmox is linux
I remember in college connecting unpatched version of xp to the internet for the first time and got what felt like hundreds of malware in minutes. This was in the 00’s.
That shouldn't have happened with a firewall
@@Fra93TheGrande probably, or could have been something special about the college network, it had one of the fastest internet connections at the time but maybe it was insecure.
XP I believe is the most hacked version of Windows ever. @@Fra93TheGrande
@@ares106You might have had the firewall off, I think it was off by default before service pack 2 but I couldn't tell you. Never lived that time.
It was probably more because IE5 than XP. You can use XP just fine with supported browsers and not get any malware.
I get the message, we should all switch to windows 98 to stay safe on the internet.
"only" issue with that is to find 16/32bit programs!
@@mho...32 bit shouldn't be too hard but 16 bit becomes unbearable. Feeding an 16 bit OS a 32 bit image would be like giving a cola to a victorian child
@@anon7149 first of all: victorian age children where well acquainted with cocaine(cola) 😅
and being a 90s teenager, i still have a bunch 16/32 bit games in a box somewhere, its not that outlandish! all these modern systems just dont know how to deal with many of them unfortunately, if you dont use emulators!...and even then its a tough pill to swallow for modern systems in any case!
@@anon7149 well, some stupid snowflake censored/deleted my reply, because it talked about the historic fact of cola's original ingredient, being well known to children in the victorian age🙄 ......
but being a 90s teenager, i still own a bunch of old 32/16 bit programs in a box somewhere ^^ and basically none of them can be used/run on any modern machine! even emulators struggle sometimes to execute a 16 bit one on modern machines!...but they are still out there 😆
It's only safe because no-one uses it?
Maybe the hackers were the friends we made along the way
hackers before: I got into your pc, internet, bank account, stole your files, and corrupted your bios, bye bye
hackers nowdays: click herez to get robux
but there is still lots of vulnerable software, and it is still possible to hack into any device
those were little happy accident encounters
You need to port forward past your NAT. Your router is blocking any external connections to your internal IP. Unless you visit a bad site or initiate a bad connection from your host nothing is going to happen unless you are already comprised on your network. Having an old operating system is only dangerous if you actually use it.
I assume you mean by Expose as in connect directly to the internet without a router firewall. Because router firewalls pretty much stop everything unless you're visiting websites with that Windows 98 browser.
Yuh that's the idea
DMZ.
It's not just the firewall, the local network is behind a nat.
@@alandobrowski2876 I have a piece of test equipment that runs Windows XP embedded and I've not any issues. But for safety, I blocked the internet to that device at the router.
9x is safer than NT these days
Pretty much. They're too different and nobody is using an internet connected 9x PC for anything important.
That's why Windows 98 is the better operating system. You might not even going to need anti virus if malware evolves where it can't run on 9x systems. If you want to use a 9x operating system I choose 98. Because it's the most stable and more designed for the internet. The one mars probe even still operates on Windows 98.
@@Nic98SE Your name is make sense
@@selami32 Haha.
@@Nic98SE me is arguably more stable depending on the hardware you're using.
@1:17 you could install it into a different folder if you wanted to break 70% of all software out there. At one point I had a system without a C: - so much stuff just broke...
SE = Second Edition and not Server Edition ;)
SE = Sports Edition
SE = Superior Edition
On windows 98, SMB is not turned on by default. You need to turn it on via the control panel networking applet. One thing to try is to install Microsoft PWS. Could the content you serve affect whether or not you get "hacked"?
Takes me back to the good old days.
For a while with Windows 2000/XP there was the sasser worm, like you would expose any PC running Windows 2000 to the internet and it was a matter of minutes until lsass.exe was exploited.
still a thing if you connect a clean win xp these days!
it happened in his 2000 video almost instantly :'D
Sasser is from 2004, Windows 2000 received its last update in 2017 so it must have been the RTM version of 2k that got infected. WinXP received its last updates in 2019, both are immune to the Sasser worm. So all these people who connect WinXP or 2k to the internet do it with the release version. Probably for clicks.
98 was still vulnerable to certain DoS which was patched in 98SE (which to my recollection had NO ports open upon install). I remember back in the day working on 98SE and it was more secure than anything else - however - I had hacked the kernal, removed fiolog.vxd and enabled NTFS and other things, and bundled it into the installation. Quite sure the vanilla 98SE was the more "secure out of the box" of all windows to date.
- Running windows 98 in VM.
- Host machine has Windows 7!
Brother I...
yeah....
- Host machine is a VM.
I'm often amazed when people get up in arms over connecting your ancient machines to the internet. After a certain point, malware developers cease targeting those old platforms. You don't see anything targeting Win9x because nobody builds malware for the 9x kernel anymore, if you installed something like KernelEx (an NT compatibility layer for 9x) you might get some issues, because malware IS built for the NT kernel, but that's likely the only instance where you may see issues. The same can likely be said for MacOS 7-9, nobody targets those systems because NOT ONLY are they outdated operating systems that nobody runs anymore, but they also run on a vastly different architecture than most current computers on the market.
Connecting NT-based systems to the internet with no firewall is suicide, though.
Completely and confidently incorrect. Malware hosts to this day scan for old OSes precisely because of their use in important outdated equipment. Connecting anything older than windows 7 to the Internet without a strict whitelist firewall WILL result in infection. Usually within a day. Windows 7 is also questionable at this point.
@@skycaptain95 So... about that. I have a PowerMac G4, an iMac G3, and a Windows 98SE machine that regularly stay connected to the internet, and occasionally run for days on end.
I have NEVER had any sort of malware on those systems. None of those operating systems are particularly chatty, they don't run many network services, and with any decent firewall (even just the basic one your normal consumer router provides) there's very little chance of an infection unless you're stupid and try to browse untrusted sites with outdated browsers.
I have network services I want to access on those machines to pull applications from my Unraid server, and I haven't had any issues at all.
Now, if we're talking fully exposing the systems to the internet, with no firewall, or hell, just a direct connection to your modem, then yes, that is a colossally stupid move, and you WILL get an infection sooner rather than later. But this isn't true if you're doing it like I, a normal human bean, does it.
Hypothetically, it opens me up to malware. Realistically, it just lets my legacy systems use my network services.
@@skycaptain95 Well, youtube decided to eat my previous attempt at a reply, but the short version is: If you have even a semi-competent firewall (even the one your basic consumer router provides) this isn't an issue. I have multiple classic MacOS machines, and a Win98SE machine that are regularly connected to my network to gain access to locally hosted network services, that have never gained any sort of malware by doing so.
If you're connecting it directly, without a firewall, then yes, that's a colossally dumb move, but with a firewall? Pretty safe, actually. Outdated NT based OSes are where dragons lie, because those OSes have far more active network services that might connect themselves to the internet, and thus be infected remotely. Win9x and MacOS 7-9 don't really have those issues, some of them have updaters, but those are easily disabled.
Is it something I'd recommend everyone do? Hell no. But is it as disastrously, cataclysmically dangerous as everyone says? Also no.
However there might be lots of legacy systems running very old OS's and no one's had the bravery to upgrade their os's... It does happen. LArge companies sometimes hide dirty secrets like a business critical application that's been running for 25 years, the source code was lost years ago and thus no one dares touch it...
@@MasterFrag91 yes, a strict whitelist firewall is really the best protection you can get (aside from not being a dumbass). We don't fundamentally disagree.
Humans when only AI can interact with OS: “Why did we move on so far from Windows 98?”
Why does your accent swing from the UK to Australia via Canada and North America?
His accent is a mix of all sorts. I can't figure it out.
I am so confused with the accent
@@TheAtomicZombie10 He's Canadian apparently which would be my first guess, though his accent does seem to switch around a lot.
my guess would be he immigrated to another country so his accent has gotten kinda mixed up
He maybe french-canadian because I do speak similarly as I am french canadian myself and learn from different countries ways to speak english while english canadian don’t have this problem cause it’s settled. But yeah he’s from canada on his profile.
In the early 2000s I found thousands of Win98 machines that were directly exposed to the internet without a router or firewall. I was scanning the IP range of my local ISP for port 139 and found a lot of hosts that could be accessed via Windows Explorer (not IE). I could mount remote partitions (incl. drive c with full access), I could even send data to their printers. In a nutshell....it was fun, a lot of fun.
Then more people used XP and routers. My script-kid-hacking-skills were no longer working.
good old days
they also started dumping telnet.
It might surprise you to know that many people did that on purpose. We weren’t really concerned about security at that time. (See Microsoft ActiveX) So we thought it was really cool to share a common WORKGROUP on the Internet and explore each other’s shares! We’d share stuff on our machines inside corporate networks too. I learned about some of the best Web Comics that way.
I had internets only since 2004 when ADSL got more popular in my country (Poland) and due to mostly performance/memory reasons I and almost everyone I knew still used Windows 98SE/Me and it was the case for quite a while. Some people did use modems to access internets as it was the cheapest available option. To be honest I didn't experience any issues whatsoever being behind NAT and only at he very beginning trying to use InternetExplorer - it would quickly devolve in to pop-up hell and computer slowing down in to a crawl. After switching to Mozilla (FF wasn't even a thing a the time funnily enough - and when it was it sucked balls so yeah... ) and then quickly to faster Opera I literally didn't have any issues with attacks or malware.
BTW. You can still use Mozilla browser as SeaMonkey and funnily enough there is use case for it over FF - MacType support. At least for secondary browser that isn't Chromium based (note: there is only Cent browser that supports MacType) SeaMonkey does a good job at lower memory requirements and modern web standard support.
next video: what happen if you actually the Microsoft itself
Really like your content, unique and educational, no bloat in your videos either which is common nowadays
"...but this operating system is older then I am." yeah just hit me right in the old age why dont ya....
2:35 You just gave me the dumbest idea. Now i want to find out what would happen if i ran a VM inside a VM inside a VM and so on
Druaga1 has made a video on that
... nothing much? just a laggy mess
There's some ancient information out on the web about that. People claim that IBM used to have hardware designed to limitlessly and arbitrarily nest virtual machines.
It's probably going to work, but you'll have massive CPU overhead
And some VM software (such as Connectix/Microsoft Virtual PC and I think Hyper-V as well) can actually refuse to start if they detect they're running in a VM
"Hey everyone, Druaga 1 here."
Any slightly outdated OS offered to the internet without a NAT router or firewall.
who would target 98. its self infection for the sakes of a video.
Yeah, cool video. I still remember my family's old Windows 98 PC with a 600 MHz Pentium 3 and 128 MB RAM. It was the first machine I tried out Haskell on.
i think my favorite part of his videos over time is watching eric's accent transition from a british accent into more of a north american accent overtime (compare his download button videos to now), it's sounding more and more north american
it's just interesting to hear an accent change between the two really quickly (he can sound british and north american within the same sentence sometimes and that is jarring)
Channel description says he is from Canada.
Is not Windows 7 adding a security layer between your Virtual Machine and the Internet as it has an integrated firewall?
What is this accent man? Sounds like your Canadian who's been living in the UK for a while.
there are only 11 windows's how do you have the 98th one?
You're joking right
lul good one
inb4 windows 2000
Dont download Oracle VM from company IP or Oracle starts to threaten you
As i know virtual box is free even for commercial use but extension packs isn't. unless the company even proactive chasing for using virtualbox without expansion packs.
@@albi2k88 I think some trainee downloaded Oracle VM from Oracle site and Oracle sales dug out company contacts and started to bombard that company is using unlicensed software and how many licenses you gonna buy..
thank you for going through all the pain of setting this up!
Windows 9x uses something called LANMAN so by default, Modem NT Operating Systems can't talk to it however you can enabled LANMAN support though.
Leave an old Linux distro exposed to the Internet next.
Ahh. I remember back in the day subnet scanning for ftp sites and getting /etc/passwd and using jack the ripper so I could telnet in. Encryption sure messed everything up. I blame AOL getting internet access.
@@djksfhakhaks good o' days
nothing will happen, it will work
@@noJobProgrammer imagine being such a fanboi of anything so much that you believe its unbackable.
@@noJobProgrammer OLD linux distro, like Ubuntu 12.04 or Debian 3. No firewalls no nothing, just a base install exposed to the internet
'the wired'
lain jumpscare
Would you consider doing one of these tests on Vista? Or would it be a waste of time?
Hey bro, good to see this video got some views, I hope more people find your channel. It's pretty cool!
Was there a reason for not simply using an old PC?
Hardware will most likely not be compatible
Can you even connect windows 95?
I've got a feeling your voice sounds like it's either heavy AI denoised or you are using a voice changer trained to immitate your own voice.
My thoughts were hes a Brit who's moved to the US
Not only is SMTP actively blocked, it's required by law. You have to sign an agreement with your ISP in order to get that port opened up for sending. I think it's part of the CAN-SPAM act.
lol
If it's running in a datacentre, it may already just have it unblocked
I've not seen that on my home ISP in the UK
@@stevec00ps Well it's a US law, so not entirely surprised :) I guess I should have been specific, sorry!
@@LunaticEdit Interesting!
i assume you have an isolated network with all ports open, how would you go about setting something like this up?
I am working at a graphic firm, and we are well equiped with new machines but we still have 2 machines from early 2000, one is working on windows 95, other one on windows 98 its a blessing working on those systems
Win98 was the OS where I learned most of my computing skills.
Your video looks quite good. What did you use to record this? when I try OBS studio on Win 98 VM I get blurry video and bad colors but you somehow have all text readable and even this red X icon on process explorer doesn't blend into gray but stays red.
"Operating system is older than I am." Bro, you just made me feel old af.
ReactOS! The heckers may think it’s Windows 2000 but it might not really run the viruses properly 😂
To be fair, ReactOS barely runs ANYTHING properly.
I love the idea of ReactOS, but it's clear that it'll never really go anywhere, it hasn't in the decade and a half I've been watching. you're better off just using any given Linux distro with Wine.
@@MasterFrag91 please dont shit on ReactOS. the work they have done is absolutely insane considering they had to reverse engineer dos, ntoskernel, and then windows apis, which is hard. wine is a much easier approach as it just converts windows api calls to linux/mac/android ones.
@@BakaTheSussy I wouldn't say I'm shitting on it, the work they've done is pretty crazy, but I can both admire the progress they've made, while simultaneously believing it won't go anywhere.
It's a cool project, but it's effectively been in development for 28 years, and barely has compatibility for even Win9x programs, still has very little hardware compatibility, and even worse driver compatibility.
As cool as it is, I suspect it will only ever be a niche experimental OS that no-one ever ACTUALLY uses.
@@MasterFrag91 last time i checked reactos was running xp era game pretty well. also there literly making there own binary compatble with windows os from litteral scrach thats not easy. where not talking a compatibility layer like wine but full native support.
Running a virtual machine with such an outdated VirtualBox version is a huge risk, because it will probably carry some nasty vulnerabilities which could enable attackers to breakout of the virtualized environment. This can lead to a situation where they will be able to aceess or attack your host machine. You were lucky...
was waitting for this one
If I was Microsoft, I would secretely scan the Internet for versions of Windows too unpopular and obsure to attract real hackers (or too sparce for speading a net worm). And then I would remotely exploit their vulnerabilities in order to freeze/reboot them. Thus anybody who wanted to achieve "security by obsurity" by using ancient Windows would experience nearly constant crashes and reboots the second they connect to the Internet
You mean, like any off-the-shelf laptop with Windows 11?
its windows 98 it does that on its own.
How do you open close program without control alt delete? I used control alt end and it didn't work.
What os are you running on your actual machine? That theme is beautiful
Sweet, I'm going back to Win98! Fingers crossed for Win2k, I absolutely loved that version. Close second favourite to Vista (no I'm not joking!)
Back in the day it definitely wasn't safe, I remember getting net send spam messages on the Win2k NAS/torrent box I set up in my student house in about 2002 😂
Sorry, dude but this video is BS MS propaganda. They just want you to upgrade to the buggy and terrible Vista, but if you properly patch 98, you can still properly use it in 2007. Heck, Valve said Steam would stop working but it STILL WORKS!
Based time traveler
So weird seeing a 2007 comment that's not 17 years old
What a cool time traveller (he doesn't know what based mean)
I’ve always wanted to see a time traveler, I can cross it off my bucket list now
or use xp if you still used a computer that couldn't run xp or 2000 in 2007 the internet would be way too laggy .i know we used it in school in 2007 and 95 too and only stopped in 2010
So how did people send viruses through chat rooms or msgs back in the day??
I love the Serial Expirements Lain refrences: admin@navi, the wired 🤣
Huh... I thought it would get hacked directly! :D
Thanks for the video!
Uh, sooo, if my Windows 9x and XP machines are behind a router/firewall and I have a gray IP, they won't get infected?
Yes, a modern residential router will block all these requests and you won't get infected from the Internet in this way. If other systems on your home network are malicious they could still get in. And of course if you use programs which access the network you could be opening a threat vector.
@@eDoc2020 thank you for your reply!
Did you enable File and Print Sharing from Control Panel > Network? (or right-clicking Network Neighborhood and choosing Properties). SMB is disabled unless this is done. If you didn't, it might be worth redoing this.
I was using AOL to go online under Windows 3.11, but I suppose you can't really connect the OS to the internet in quite the same way?
Were any online viruses ever written for Windows 3.1 or OS Warp 2? I know 3.1 had rudementary internet access with a browser and I don't know much about OS Warp
On Windows 3.1 with dial-up internet, you had a 3rd party TCP/IP stack, such as Trumpet.
Windows for Workgroups 3.11 supported network cards, but initially no TCP/IP. There was an update installing a TCP/IP stack.
for Windows 3.1 definitely but OS Warp 2 probably not because it was so obscure or at least not many
Wait, are you not behind a firewall or router with this?
No. That's the whole purpose of the video.
There's no need, nothing bad will happen.
First install Win98SE. Upgrade Internet Exploder. Install Firefox. Install Unofficial Service Pack.
for me its
install win98se - install autopatcher - run autopatcher - patch everything - install kernelex - install kernelex updates - install firefox
You should see if the Windows 7 VM got infected by anything that escaped the 98 VM!
Nested virtualisation I guess requires guest OS cooperation? I can run the latest Debian at reasonable speeds, but I tried old Windows and OPENSTEP and it was absolutely atrocious.
This was in Vbox in PVE on Skylake , other configurations may vary?
You may get better results using 86box or pcem for Windows 9x and dos, as they emulate more era appropriate hardware.
3:00
Frogfind would be more useful than google in this case. Frogfind is a search engine made specifically for old systems. Will work on IE3.0 which will run on Windows 3.11 which was the first windows version with native networking. You did have to install a browser from a CD, but it will work even in 2024. Likely very hard on a VM though. I did it on a real computer running DOS and 3.11.
It seems like your VM Host (windows 7) looks like it got infected first, and was chattering a bit
what
when
@@1993MAZDAMIATA this dude spitting nonsense lol
That's such good news! That means I can still use my Windows 98 machine for DOS gaming, and being able to use the internet to download applications for it. 😅
so if i use a virtual machine with a simulated dial up connection and connect to the internet and just open up firefox and do nothing i will get infected and is proto web safe to use as in can i not get virus's on it because i want a safe way to use internet and email on win 98 for fun and i want to know what apps and settings to use
1:30 "My Compute" does not compute!
Love this kind of content so I will subscribe
Now you can play Sim City 2000.
I was looking for this comment.
if im right then windows 7 was directly connected to the internet not behind any router right? and vbox was bridgin windows7's internet to the 98 vm meaning it effectively becomes a router of sorts and windows 7 does have a firewall so my theory is that it blocked all the incoming connections to any port FOR the 98 vm so nothing was able to get in
you should also test vista
He was using VirtualBox bridged networking. This picks up packets before they even have a chance to get touched by Windows 7's firewall.
This man is a tech nerd and been a tech nerd is cool
Man, you should had used PCem or 86Box. You put yourself trough a lot of pain trying to use VMWare (would had been the equally bad with VirtualBox).
If curious, it was so slow because you where running in VGA mode with 16 colours, and VMWare sucks at translating that to whatever you use on your computer.
Actually, a pointer, VMware just sucks in general, specially if you want to test older software :P
having started my pc saga on win3.11, its always fun to the old ui again ;)
but lets be honest here.... what kind of bob would still write/keep-online tools to infect 25+ year old operating systems?!
Maybe generic pings and similar, as well as ppl checking is rarely used machines are being booted
2:44 try writing a modern website and make it work on IE4-IE10, thats what u call a true nightmare
2000 was getting infected extremely rapidly when exposed to the Internet some years ago. Problem got solved by home routers blocking inbound connections.
I was born when this ops came out i feel old
I was hoping you showed the install; I was bord one day and decided to install 98 on a DDr3 computer with a quadcore. It made me giggle to see the timer start at like 54min and then run the min down faster than seconds. will take 54..32...19...5 done.
maybe i am missing something why not just buy an old desktop load 98 on it and expose it. it would be closer to real world that way..who cares if the HDD gets infected..when done just wipe it or throw it away the HDD....is it because you would not be able to do screen capture?
Malware can be spread from an infected device to other devices in the network if it's sophisticated enough. He could probably set up a repeater and isolated Internet connection for it though.
"this operating system is older than i am so it should be fine" 😂
Would prefer to see you using the original hardware. I believe in you.
I want a part 3, but with Win 7 or win 8, I don't know if you already did it, I'm a new sub haha ^^"
What happens if you expose win3.11 to the internet?
this is super scary lolol
so this happens on only older versions or any version if the firewall is off? also isnt win 7 also vulnerable? its out of service for so long now
I had this Windows 7 because I was trying to see if it would work on 7. It doesn't seem to (a few days with nothing). Exposed to the internet with no firewall, it seems to have the most trouble on XP.
It requires that the OS have some vulnerability, and that malware is actively out their trying to exploit it. Plenty of XP worms still going around, 98 and earlier don't have a lot of open ports.
@@EricParker is this a patched win7 or RTM?
Bro exposing Windows 98 to internet in 2024 on Windows 7 already connected to internet
nested virtualization is insane.
Depends on their hypervisors. You can easily go three layers deep if you play your cards right.
QEMU or KVM are good starting points whereas the likes of VirtualBox or VirtualPC should only be used in the last step unless you accelerate them heavily.
I must be old too. Windows 98 seemed new and exciting at the time. After Honeywell mainframes Win98 really was amazing.
why you are using nested virtualization
Love these vids my guy, good work
I don't understand? what is attacking you? you are not browsing the internet, to attack you they need your ip
Malicious servers scan the internet for vulnerable IPs 24/7, as outdated computers are still in service for banking, medical, or personal use (among other things).
The IPv4 address space is very large, but not so large that a botnet cannot comb through it. Especially when they know which blocks are likely to contain their targets.
@@skycaptain95 the IPv4 space is indeed large, however its mostly mapped too so the scanners can ignore all the datacenters and webservers and go straight to scanning end users.
@@skycaptain95 odd how my reply got blocked by YT...all I said was the address space is well known and they can skip all the businesses, datacenters, webservers and go straight for home users.
@@skycaptain95 they just try random ip then try know vulnerabilities if a machine awnser?, that's so crazy
@@cours458 Yes. There are only 4 billion possible IPv4 addresses. If you only scan 1000 IPs per second it will only take about 40 days to scan the entire Internet. If you have a botnet it will go even faster, and of course there are thousands of entities doing this.
My genuine response to the title of the video : it gets traumatized
I do not see where the problem is. I used windows 98 with internet without any problem. If you want to run it get an intel pentium cpu. If you want to emulate it, you probably will not run. As the latest version works with multi core multithread processors. Assembler subsets that did not exist in 1998.