The main problem for lapis is not her stats or growths, those are good. It's her joining time, she joins right on the chapter you get your first 2 master seals, if u use one right away she will be strong, but usually at that point you have 2 or 3 units that are already 10 or 11, that you like and plan to use. Usually Chloe, Louis or Alear. So that makes it so that people usually don't pay attention to her.
@@radityapoerwanto7018 More like only one does. Diamant generally works better with axes when you invest into him. So the only unit that powercreeps her is Kagetsu, who powercreeps everyone because of his good growths and insane bases.
While in the past Base class mattered a lot, with no need to grind weapon ranks its actually suboptimal to NOT reclass your units into the best class for them. Lapis has fantastic internal stats, and by that I mean stats not tied to her base class of sword fighter. Once you move her out of it she is instantly completely viable and with the highest speed growth in a game where doubling is a luxury, on maddening at least, she is useful. People are just stuck with the ideas the funny pitfall man told them years ago and discount her immediately at first glance but will probably soon adapt to how these new game mechanics work and start thinking in terms of what reclass is the best for which unit. What I'm basically trying to say is tier lists for this game are a mess and will be for a long time, to truly even attempt it objectively you would have to factor in every class on every character including the different growths and class bases each one then gives them which would be near impossible to do accurately.
There are a lot of units you can fix by making them a Berserker first and letting them get good hp and str growths and then reclass them into what you want them to be.
Word. I thought Framme was just an early game staffbot you benched because her offense was so bad, until I realized just how cheap it was to forge the fist art upgrades. Turns out her offense is pretty good, it's just the Iron-Body art she starts with that sucks. Promoted her to martial master and had Flashing Fists +4 by the time I reached chapter 7, and on Maddening she was one-rounding every foot unit that wasn't armored, and without a counterattack due to the brave-like nature of fist weapons. This included sword fighters, which nobody was even close to doubling at that point. All this on top of her staff and chain guard utility turned her one of the most versatile units on my team.
Funny pitfall man also makes vids about units that get under/overrated and talks about first impressions, and I think lapis is an easy shoe-in for the obligatory eventual engage unit, due to the awful first impression the games gives you of her.
I agree and add to that the possible Emblem Ring combinations and skill inheritance. It's impossible right now to know to factor in all of the possible combinations. I'm going to try out Lapis soon as this sounds fun and I haven't used her.
Lapis has good speed, which is the most important stat in the game. She can snowball easily on the right classes. I also make an argument for Hero, both for chain attacks but also for the ability to wield two weapons.
I went through my first maddening run without guides and ran Lapis with Lyn, then when I started diving into the community afterwards I was surprised people didn't really like her as much as I did. She pulled off so many important plays for me
I have had a similar experience with Boucheron. At the start it was really rough, but I found sigurd worked really well with him. And then he continued doing better as i went along. Berserker Boucheron has been such a clutch for me. My first unit to reach tier 2 level 20. And then i reclassed him to warrior since he reached speed cap there. And I get that he has middling strength growth, but fixed mode is wonderful. And with a brave axe now, he does even better. But personla experience means nothing, and this is the first time i run through it so, it is likely i would have seen better performance elsewhere
to be fair, you can get kagetsu to wyvern and he would be doing the same thing without needing a master seal, however, since katgetsu is like top of S tier, being worse than him does not mean bad at all lol. I argue only panette and merrin have the insane base stat impact of kagetsu on arrival.
@@ElijahLotusShield Both merrin at kagetsu has 20 level ups with of growths, but their interal levels is not 20 is 15-17 ive heard. Ontop of kagetsu having the highest personal growths in the game.
@@ElijahLotusShield less by 5, which is offset by the 5 free levels of stats he just has from existing. As suposedly he come with internal level 15 but with 20 levels with of level up stats.
I never understood why Lapis was so under-rated in your earlier vids and, especially, in your comments. Lapis was always good for me, both on crit builds and a Hero Assist build. I think I'm going to try making her into a tank of some kind in my fourth Maddening run (not running her on my third run because I'm doing magic only) just to see how she does (since she's obviously good as Swordmaster, Hero, and Wyvern).
Never really understood the Lapis hate. Her only problem is that she gets overshadowed by later joining characters. Done 2 maddening playthroughs using her and she’s always been a good combat unit.
The thing is for people like me, there was a lot of hype around using her before the game came out and then you realize she is completely outclassed at everything. 2 chapters into getting her lmao. That doesn't mean she is not *usable* but it does mean she is *not optimal*. And that was very disappointing for a lot of fans. I won't say it's hate, but I do tend to point out that she is just a worse Kagetsu in almost every way
@@degreeskelvin3025 I feel like us old time FE fans hyper focus on "optimal play" instead of just having fun with a new fire emblem game. I'm not saying optimal play isn't fun but I think you get my point
It's not a matter about being outclassed. I use units based on like rather than 'oh they have better base stats' unless they're totally unusable. I tried using Lapis and she always had like pathetic Str growth. I tried her as Swordmaster and Sword Flier, both she'd tickle enemies even feeding her tons of kills, she was on par with the others in terms of levels. I didn't try on Wyvern but, her biggest issue is obviously her sad str, and might be THE ONLY WAY to make her usable without dumping every single stat item on her.
Just think a lot of the problem is the first run through engage there are some units that perform just fine in their standard classes, Lapis is not one of them. Kept in sword fighter path she feels super underwhelming and she requires a different class like wyvern but on first playthrough and not knowing how to allocate some of the finite resources in game/optimal emblem ring use it makes it pretty easy to write her off. That's really the great thing about Engage, the customization is great.
cause you're starved for sword users and when you get her you immediately get diamut and later kagettsu and if you're just looking for someone to fill that sword role then kagettsus stats are so blessed he immediately takes her job
I think the biggest people hate Lapis is because she has to compete with Alear and Diamant as a sword unit and she comes with a Blade, which causes players to try and use her with the Blade, but she doesn’t have the durability to make use of it.
When i took Lyn off my Ivy I felt like she was under performing compared to my other units but then i gave her dire thunder with a thunder +3 tome and she started killing shit very easily while cantering away. when i gave her thunder +5 she became one my most reliable units that i can just send out to snipe enemies even bosses and pull back to safety. she went from Lindwurm lvl 2 - 17 pretty damn quickly
It’s funny, I’ve been a massive advocate for lapis but recently I’ve been wondering if she fits on a team. Theirs at least 7-8 Solm/Elysian that are optimal to run, meaning you can bring very few characters out of the early game. An example team would be;kagestu, Ivy, Pandreo,Fogado,Merrin, Pannete, Hortensia, and goldmary. Adding in alear and Chloe you end up with two deployment slots, one should probably go to a mage (Anna/Citrine/Celine), this means lapis is in competion with units like Zelkov and Timerra. She also has the downside of low Sp, competion for emblem rings, and she needs a master seal that makes either alear or Anna good, or makes Chloe juggernaut from chapter 7. All in all I think Lapis is good but arguably suboptimal, and her viability is very tied to how good you consider her competion to be.
I think the frustration is the perspective on how people view some units in the game. The perspective shouldn’t be: “Unit X is good, but this unit exist so it doesn’t matter therefore said unit is bad.” Regardless if a unit is objectively better or not doesn’t devalue them being viable in a play through when they fulfill their role consistently.
People don't like that she doesn't crit much if she's in a group, BUT as a wyvern, she mostly flies out and kills isolated units for me anyway. And when she is grouped, she's trying to tank. The extra +10 Avoid is a seriously nice passive in that case. She's not my absolute favorite, but she's popped off in both my Hard and Maddening games so far.
All things considered I adore using Lapis. She is very much similar to Nephenee from PoR to me. So many units in this game feel odd in particular ways in that classes have contradicting starts and wanting to second seal.
I am doing my third maddening run and trying units that I didn’t use in the previous ones. I found out that actually most units are playable with the right investment. Units like lapis and Boucheron are actually not bad.
Whenever I have a physical unit that seems to be underperforming, I just reclass them to warrior or wyvern knight and that generally fix the issue. those 2 class is just that good. Most memorable was my first maddening run and I had yunaka damage fell off super hard after chapter 20, i reclass her to warrior and she was doing work all the way till end of 26.
Just finished my Maddening run a few days ago and I was using Lapis as Wyvern and later became Griffin. She became one of my hard carry end game who was able to dodge most things in the game, including the final boss
@@williamt8234 Wyvern Panette functions either as the best crit build thanks to flying mobility, a high strength bonking build without the low skill on other high strength classes, or a better Ivy with Lyn. Speed is really easy to work around. Gryphon is a little bit weird. It ends up not being quite fast or strong enough. Not that she's bad in it, she isn't bad on any physical class, but I like Wyvern better.
With this games limited resources I try and use my master/second seals more conservatively. I could use a second seal on a mediocre unit to make them good, but I could also use the seal on a good unit to make them better. It's kind of like the discussion of why should I give boots to a general so they can maybe keep up, when I can give it to a flier and make them better. I want to get the most out of my resources.
@AncientSpark Too much babysitting. The game gives you 2 second seals. Why would I make lapis a wyvern when I could make kagetsu one when he is good right from the get go? With 5 master seals you have alot of competition still. Alear, Louis, Chloe, maybe a healer, diamant, Alcryst, amber, citrine, are all better candidates who want a master seal. You can try to make your favorite character good, but having to go through multiple resources to get there sets them back from units who require less effort. Some units reclassed may be slightly better in the end game, but I prefer units who can actually get me there without becoming a tedious chore to train. It's why I can't rank a character like Vander as the worst, he contributes so much in the early game.
I wonder how she is as a Great Knight mix tank. With her speed she would be less likely to be doubled while in Great Knight, plus she boosts speed cap by 3 if you invest enough to get her there. She may also have a decent chance to avoid attacks with the help of her passive. Having not too high defense and avoid means enemies might target her. Where as if she had too much avoid or defense they would ignore her. Maybe give her a skill to boost speed to get over some doubling thresholds later in the game.
Again, like I said in your Guide video for her, I agree Wyvern is her best (aesthetically too) and her speed is the secret sauce. It enables her to be good a variety of setups. Wyvern is just so braindead easy to setup. Very little investment like you said. But you still gotta try her in a backup class, use a break weapon like Steel Blade +4 engraved for +Avo. She can now Dodge Tank, break, and wrack up damage with Dual Assist+. My favorite builds are those that give me more bang for my buck. Why have just a tank when the tank can add passive damage in all combats near it? Or better, it can also break opponents for Warrior damage and safe dives. I still want to see in practice on Sage as a speedy avo mage, or using Lief on Wyvern/Warrior/Zerker to be a Quad Brave user. Lots of fun things she can do with that personal 55 Speed growth.
This is how I handled lapis on my very first playthrough, it just seemed optimal: fliers are busted, gives her more strength, she's got nuts speed, and she's cute as hell. Gave her an engraved killer sword and she mopped up.
My questions for her is how does she compare this way to someone like Merrin or Kagetsu using a second seal right when you get them? Cause like sure she's serviceable and a solid unit this way. But is she worth the slot over Chloe, Merrin or Kagetsu? And is she worth the early master seal over units like Chloe, Anna, Alear, Alcryst and maybe Jean? Like I love this style of video about making the most of the unit if you want to use them. But I'd like a part or a separate video explaining how worth it will it be and is it worth the opportunity cost of getting them online if you only care for "optimal gameplay"
She's honestly identical to Chloé in performance at the cost of 1 extra second seal. You use her the same way and get the same results. Lapis will have slightly higher strength, Chloé will have slightly higher speed. So just use whichever character you like better, or use both.
I use her as a wolf knight with lucinas ring and she is a really good bond shield User for cavalary units. Her passive is also quite good for it and having dual assist as a unit which also User daggers is really good to poison enemys
After playing through the game 4 times on maddening, with all 4 times using Lapis as Warrior, Wyvern, Swordmaster, and now in my latest playthrough Hero, I can say that Hero was the class where Lapis performed the best for me, since she was fast enough and hit hard enough to absolutely trivialize the midgame, and by the time her damage started to fall off in the lategame, she was still a great backup bot who was fast enough to dodge attacks and keep brave assist online for longer while letting my healers worry about other characters who need the healing more. Wyvern was great during the midgame and VERY late into the game when I let her overlevel a bit, but generally there was a good 4 chapters where her damage was struggling and she wasn't able to keep up as a dps. Said chapters were Chapters 21-25... considering these chapters are extremely hard I was not a fan of one of my main dps units underperforming... Warrior was pretty decent but she just underperformed in comparison to other warriors I used in my other playthroughs, and while longbow spam was fun, Hero Lapis was just the better backup bot. Swordmaster Lapis was the best, I loved doubling endgame fliers for 0 damage!
A LOT of units only look bad because they are in the WRONG class by default. Lapis Anna Fogado Clanne (mage knight is ok, but his growths make him better as a pure physical unit) Arguably Etie wants to be a warrior
That here is the most important point.... with no investment you get Merrin who is practically the same unit as invested in Lapis. The one deciding factor should be if you want to run fancy S swords on a Griffon endgame...which Lapis and Kag could do but Merrin can't.
I think A tier is pretty reasonable, and she's one of my favorite units. She can be a monster in early-mid game with some small investment, and be competent endgame with it. Her biggest flaw is just that there's a few (kagetsu*cough*) units that simply outclass her in stats so they're better, but lapis herself is still very good. As for early master seals, I feel like you should only commit to 3 early game units max, maybe 4? Because eventually it takes so long to get another seal that units fall behind due to leveling in their base class too long. My current Chloe had that issue and is now just not great going into endgame, because she was like 18 or 19 by the time I master sealed her. To that end, if lapis is one of your 3-4 units, I don't feel like it's a huge investment to use, more like a decision, and pretty fast after ch11 and your 4th seal you get some very strong units some who are already in an advanced class, like Panette.
My first playthrough was blind maddening and i had her in her default infantry>hero thing, and she still ended up being one of my best units. I didn't even know people thought she was bad tbh
I am impressed and I am so happy to see a functional Lapis. My only concern is that 60% speed might fall off at some point compared to something like Berserker or Warrior where she gets more speed and the same/more strength? It isn't bad of course, but will she be unable to double a lot of the endgame enemies she could on a faster class? One thing that is an objective fact is that Lapis is a better Wyvern than Jean. Jean on Wyvern only has 50% speed growth while Lapis maintains 60% due to her solid base. While his growths everywhere else are better, missing the higher speed benchmark really hurts him and it means he will struggle to double on the class which is more important that having a little more of other stats.
Wolf Knight Lapis with a silver dagger (levin sword backup for armoured units) and micaiah engraved, you become an insane dodge tank and an S tier carry all game, the beauty of her passive is that you can choose to have or not to have 10% avoid which ends up being the difference of 8% hit and 0% hit. You slap on Lucina ring on her and call it a day (daggers apply poison stacks from chain attacks, they are the best lucina ring users). Lapis always doubles with a high might weapon like an upgraded silver dagger so she always does pretty good damage as a frontline unit. Framme I stand by her being S tier. She is immediately useful being your only healer and remains useful with helping alear be a dodge tank, and as a sage (mage knight when you are speed capped) she is a decent thoron poke user and can double on maddening with fixed growths using bolganone so her damage output is pretty good. Panette obvious and immediate S tier. Give her Lyn's ring and she kills everything she touches. Seadall obvious S tier. Healer, buffer, dancer, can tank some hit, he does it all. Anna is better on random growths and that makes her S tier. On fixed growths she is not quite of a monster, but still one shots fliers and can kill armoured units as radiant bow bow knight Anna. The utility of nuking every flier she sees is better than mage knight, especially since you can give her Claude's ring and give her 2-3 range radiant bow and 2-4 range long bow. No matter what tho, she is needed to make back some gold, especially on maddening. Jean is S tier as long as you know what you are doing. The most fun for him was as a general especially if you are using Tiki's ring. Louis still S tier. Hard carries early, slightly awkward during the mid game, then picks back up for the late game on Maddening. If you use Soren's Ring, his ring can allow you to force taunt on an ally making the Maddening AI to attack 0 damage / 0% hit units.
I think it's so funny your updated tier list you were comparing Anna to alot of units (have always loved anna!) And you mentioned her again I said out loud "can't go a video without mentioning Anna huh?" Just in a fun harmless way 🤣
Lapis is a fairly solid unit just by virtue of her availability. Since she joins before you get mugged from your rings, she has time to pick up lance or axe proficiency from Leif, as well as Build +3 or even Canter from Sigurd if you can somehow manage it. This lets her quickly get into a flying class like Wyvern while Kagetsu has to wait until after chapter 13 when he can bond with Ike.
Lapis also has an early hero niche- you want that class skill asap and she can get there very early without any second seal with just a little bond points. Her combat suffers due to not being a wyvern, but I really like having the double chain attacks around this early
Very refreshing to hear someone say "the burden of proof". I for one thought she was decent she is Chloe with a tiny bit more strength and a tiny bit less speed.
I just have to say that several units you get early, including Lapis, but also Amber, or Etie but also even someone like Clanne (though he is notorious for getting to 10 and doing anything with early) - if you give them the "wyvern" or "griffon" treatment as Chloe easily gets by default because of her starting class - become effective and snowballing units through chaps 9-11 because they got that master+second seal into promoted class early and hence perform and get more kills on those maps. With early promotions it's less the character but more the advanced class that is doing the heavy lifting.
I was planning my first maddening run last might and was peeping bases and brain storming Lapis was a surprise discovery for me for how potentially good she could be on wyvern and im heavily considering using her, if not on this one than my next
Alear is probably still A off the back of being a walking/flying +3 true damage and utilizing Dual Support better than anyone since they can A support the whole cast.
I was using Lapis as a Sword Master at first. But I switched her to Paladin after a bit, since my Second Seals were just sitting around in the shop. She lost some speed in exchange for better every thing else, in both class bases and growth rates. In particular, 70% Speed alongside 50% Defense had me do a double take. Especially with fixed growths. I also find it too hard to say no to Knife chain attacks from a Wolf Knight with Lucina for the easy poison stacks. And since that also gives Bonded Shield 100% block rates for cavalry units, I made her a 4th cavalry unit so I could have three of them make a wall to block enemies. Still have her doing the same gameplan she was doing as a Sword Master though. She inherited Marth's avoid boosting skills from the earlygame, and is currently running around with a Sigurd engraved Steel Sword and a Micaiah engraved Silver Blade. She dodges just about everything aimed at her and proceeds to either kill enemies outright or chunk them for more than half of their HP. On another note, describing Lapis as Chloe's little sister put a cute image in my head. And now I see Lapis getting together a huge amount of potatoes for Chloe to use as part of her folk food meals.
I’d love a guide on just how to just practice get better I lost my hard classic run so I’m doing it on normal but I feel like that won’t be fun due to the higher hit rates you get and near the end it’s basically 100% hit rate
You brought up master seal usage at some point, and it made me wonder, do you have any interest in doing a video covering Master Seal usage? I feel like I’m always torn on who to use my early game ones on. I want to use them on units like Jean, Anna, Lapis, and other units I want to second seal, but then I feel like my Alear, Chloe, and a few others fall off hard.
Lapis actually has rather solid bases held back by mediocre growths. Wyvern fixes those growths. I run sword and axe Wyvern on Lapis and she's extremely effective. She's pretty much identical to Chloé, with the only difference being that she needs a second seal.
My Lapis got screwed by leveling her up in her base class and screwed again by failing to get her a weapon proficiency other than sword, which left her sword locked and stuck in swordmaster. I think this is why a lot of people hate on her because you have to invest some Emblem time on her or some Bond fragments to get her access to the good classes.
I think the problem is that Lapis doesn't immediately show how good she is in her starting chapter. During my playthrough I already had units filling the niches she could have filled.
I think the problem is that she joins too early and kagetsu is fucking top tier and performs better than her by that point however once she maxed out both her and kagetsu are basically the same unit I would S rank her on a trials tier list but A on maddening is actually acceptable so long you keep investing on her she can be really powerful. The problem is people don't really want to work their units in maddening basically the PoR mentality of early units being fully replaceable
I made her a Hero in my maddening run. Best decision I made. She can tank surprisingly and double and her build is high. Idk how I made her good but it worked
Lapis is *good* Lapis is basically the #2 at most things. She's never #1. She can fill pretty much whatever role you need an extra of; but she's pretty much never going to be your BEST unit. The reddit has a pretty good thread showing Lapis is comparison to other units in the same class or similar. She's basically always #2; never the standout. She's good. She's not great. She's a swiss army knife. I mean, being a worse Chloe isn't a bad thing. You're a worst version of maybe the best character in the game.
True, he does require more XP early game while Lapis promotes instantly but he would be good on Wyvern due to his stats. Wyvern basically fixes high speed low STR units.
I love Lapis. She takes a little bit of additional care, but I keep saying, her speed is really valuable. On a side note, if an enemy has more than 20% to hit on maddening, I assume they are going to hit. Edit: It's also worth mentioning that you didn't take advantage of Lapis' personal skill. The counter attacks might have missed her with the +10 avoid.
On my first run I kept her on marth with sword master and everything only had 20 hit rate on her with a killing age so she would kill on enemy phase. Armor units would fall with Marth rapier. Haven’t tried her on wyvern that’s my next approach
Was thinking about making her a Paladin to have S rank and some solid growths all around. But this Video made me go Wyvern. Gonna try Paladin next run!
Speaking of which, do you think Wolf Knight Alear with Lucina could be busted? It'd make her into a backup unit that could poison through chain attacks, and she supports with everyone, so bonded shield will be at its strongest. I'm thinking about using it in my next maddening run. I imagine I'll put her through a class with better strength growths first, such as Warrior or Berserker, and then switch into WK.
Boucheron's not bad. Just next stage you get Panette that has as much base str and his attack with the longbow. And a point or two behind of speed, with 17 extra hp and more Def and more res. That's the saddest thing to me. I'd love my early axe bro if he didn't look like a wet noodle after investing in him compared to the free version they just hand you. I feel he wants to be this fast axe user that uses heavy weapons and doubles cause he's fast and thicc, but it just never materializes.
Lapis gives the same impression that units like Alear give intially. Swords hit like wet tissues in this Game on Maddening. On my first run, I initially had a low impression of even Kagetsu since he was hitting 2s with a Wo Dao as a Swordmaster.
It's true, this game really emphasizes hitting high ATK values so swords are a disadvantage, not to mention they once again don't have a 1-2 range physical option unlike Lances and axes
I never understand the Lapis hate. It's kinda ridiculous. She's my favorite character the whole game even though I do think she has some obvious shortcomings. It mainly comes down to her defense and res sucking. Shes the literally definition of a glass cannon. But she can snowball very well if put into the right classes. My first playthrough on Hard I used Lapis as Swordmaster and she literally had base 144 avo end game with like 48 SPD on Lyn's ring. If I used Marth, she probably coulda had more Avoid. Literally could solo like 8 to 10 enemies no problem besides chain attacks. My current Maddening run, I have her as Hero and she's still slaying. And I mean, come on, she's adorable, damnit. Idk, never understood the hate. She's saved my ass so many times than I can count whenever I needed someone to tank.
She could probably do well, but if you're going to run a halberdier I would choose someone with good strength and bad speed like panette to make use of pincer attack. I'm sure it would be good though
While she might be good as a wyvern knight (if you give her the +3 speed from lyn that you never mention at any point). I am pretty certain she was given insane favouritism to be able to get that master seal, at the point she did. To have hit level 4 in wyvern knight she would have got of one you first 3 master seals. As chloe is lapis but better chloe gets one of the 3. Anna will get the master seal from her chapter. This leaves a single master seal which if we assume your tier list is order within the teirs means that alear, alcyrst and jean would all have to forfeit taking a master seal for lapis to be able to become a wyvern knight. If were assuming you have infinite money and seals cause of relay trial then maybe she is better, but it is important to take note of the fact that for lapis to be good as you say she wants to become a wyvern knight which is dificult without steal a better units master seal. If she doesnt get one of the first 3 master seals her validity as a wyvvern knight is somewhat debatable since kagetsu can just join and become one instead. More likely its units with a good base speed growth are good as wyvern knight as their base speed is sufficient to offset the lower speed growth on wyverns. This means clanne or framme could have been good wyvern knights if they hadnt be stuck in classes with no speed growth for 10 levels. Actually on looking at level 10 clanne you reclass him to wyvern knight hes gonna gonna be a faster slightly less damaging version of lapis. Obviously the on factor in favour of lapis over the other units is that she comes in at level 10 so you get a net exp gain using her over a wyvern riding clanne.
It's not all that insane. Lapis might not be one of the best three candidates for these early master seals, but she's probably something like a shared fourth place. Assuming Anna automatically gets the second seal is a little dubious, imho. Anna is pretty good, but she's very far from being a priority unit the way Chloé is. Much more replaceable, and she takes a few levels post promotion to truly become worth it. The Kagetsu situation is the same as usual, where he's better but there is little reason not to just run around with three godly wyverns instead of four. The competition isn't about being the best, but about being one of the 12 best, or close enough. I don't think he's arguing for her being top tier, but she's defo a pretty well performing unit. I think a lot of people assumed she was worse than she really is because of the usual archetype of units like Hana, Marisa or Mia that get overhyped because they're cute and thus people hyperinvest but in actuality are pretty mediocre.
I think the reason people undervalue her is that fallacy from back in the GBA era where people thought you only need "the best" of a particular class. But Chloe, Lapis, and Kagetsu are all good in similar ways, so why not use all three? I feel like a lot of the unit quality judgment people makes in this game is based on characters who are put in bad base classes (Anna's a good example), not the character in a vacuum.
I don't think that's particularly true anymore. Plenty of people consider Marcus, Isadora, and Sain really good in FE7. Those who hate pre promotes consider Sain and Lowen pretty serviceable. I find the bigger issue is that class changing just takes a lot of time to develop. It's easy to see why Sain or Marcus are good. They can only be 1 class no matter what you do. Since Shadow Dragon, you can end up in multiple different paths, and that makes it harder to rate a unit. For example, to me, Sedgar is incredible on Shadow Dragon because I made him a General. To someone else, he's trash because Castor is a better horseman. This carries into Engage. As a swordmaster, you don't really want more than one imo, but as fliers, you can have a full team of them and it wouldn't hurt you.
As people figure out the game more, the meta leans to: 1. Speed is the best stat (obviously - this is true of almost every FE game). 2. Best class for physical high speed is Wyvern because of the mobility, strength boost, and overall growth/base spread. I used Kagetsu as a Swordmaster at first until chapter 17, switched him to a Wyvern, and he immediately went from busted to borderline God-tier. You could easily convince me you're supposed to have 7 physical + magic Wyverns in an optimal maddening run (Alear, Kagetsu, Chloe, Merrin, Panette, Ivy, Hortensia) and I'd belive you.
Shes a hero for me with Lucinas ring as of ch.23. But, I've been considering making her a lance+sword wyvern I inherited build+3 from leif and gave her a forged steel axe with sigurds engraving and she does heavy damage or ORKOs even without alears passive. Not to mention I run a hand axe with dual assist+ with brave assist so even her existing benefits such a large area of maps its insane Idk why the build skills are ignored overall when they're so cheap that you can get build +3 before chapter 11
This extends to every unit before solm, but even if lapis’ stats are competitive, theres still an SP disadvantage. If you didn’t inherit spd+3 what would she have 861? timerra’s trio next chapter come with 1500
lapis joins in chapter 7, which is 5 whole chapters before timerra/panette/Merrin join. She also has the entirety of chapter 13 as panette/merrin don’t get SP and Timerra is mostly on break duty. Plus two paralogues show up before chapter 13. She also can get canter early with some planning.
Lapis on Warrior was my best unit (along with Diamont) in my first run. I’m doing my second run now, and I can’t imagine doing a run without her. For me personally, she’s S tier. Btw, she very much outshined my Chloe who was a Wyvern, not to say Chloe was bad, just that Lapis was better in my first run.
Steel sword with the Macaiah engrave is the closest you can get for Lapis in the early game to as close to 90-100 as possible without going over. Then whenever combat starts her ability procs and she and she pops off
For one Second Seal, I'll take anyone - especially Lapis - as a 2nd Chloé any day. In this particular case with Lapis, would you still run Kagetsu (considering everyone's main argument about his base stats, etc.)? If so, how?
I've noticed a lot of the people shitting on Lapis just say "well kagetsu is better so you shouldn't use her lol" but it's just such a stupid argument. Yeah, no shit Kagetsu is gonna be better than her, he's gonna outclass every other unit in the game in basically every stat at joining. If you could fill your team with Kagetsus that'd obviously be optimal, but you only have one, and if you want other fast moderately bulky/strong units for Wyverns, Heros, etc. Lapis is a solid fit for that slot. Same argument goes for all warriors being outclassed by Panette, all mages competing with Pandreo, etc, but sword units have had it worst from what I've seen.
Comparing Clanne to boucheron, then taking about Lapis being good is insane to me. She has 5% higher Str growth than bouch, and 10% more speed (but -15 build, so less effective speed). Also, one rounding things on ch12 in a Wyvern class is not a benchmark of utility.
>Wyvern Knight is an OP class an has been since GBA. Hell, even engage has Sacred Stones "oops all wyvern and great knights" problem. Wyvern is so good that they made GALEFORCE to even the flying classes in awakening. You could put anna and her silly magic growth on wyvern and it would be good, not really an argument Air Raid is actually one of the better class skills, too.
We could, I tend not to reach out and just focus on making videos. I don't necessarily consider myself an FEtuber though I have covered a bunch of other games and am currently working on Atomic Heart weapon/build guides :) Also doing System Shock remake which ships this month (hopefully, was delayed an entire year previously)
I think anyone that comes at 10 instantly ready to promote probably is decent, it’s just deciding who gets your master seals and what’s the best class to take advantage of their growths It’s a shame tho, some of the early game units actually have good potential but maddening doesn’t give you the structure to see some of them. Alfred actually turned extremely great for me in hard mode, but it was a bit of a struggle in the mid game. Then eventually he got fast enough and his defense growth caught up made him crazy tank I’d love to see some sort of light new game+ like with an unlocked store and keeping whatever bond rings you craft to see what kind of stuff you could do like that
Lapis as a wyvern: red armor is awesome > can actually be good
Lapis is peak design. She looks good in all clases.
@@pableitor2009 the only acceptable hero is Goldmary because she's the only one who doesn't look horrendous
Peak Fashion Emblem for real
The main problem for lapis is not her stats or growths, those are good. It's her joining time, she joins right on the chapter you get your first 2 master seals, if u use one right away she will be strong, but usually at that point you have 2 or 3 units that are already 10 or 11, that you like and plan to use. Usually Chloe, Louis or Alear. So that makes it so that people usually don't pay attention to her.
Yep, and then when you thought you had a chance to use her... Better units joins you.
@@radityapoerwanto7018 More like only one does.
Diamant generally works better with axes when you invest into him.
So the only unit that powercreeps her is Kagetsu, who powercreeps everyone because of his good growths and insane bases.
@@Raydr62at least she doesn't have to wait 6 chapters to get canter
Dripped out in the red wyvern armor too
only downside is bye-bye midriff.
While in the past Base class mattered a lot, with no need to grind weapon ranks its actually suboptimal to NOT reclass your units into the best class for them. Lapis has fantastic internal stats, and by that I mean stats not tied to her base class of sword fighter. Once you move her out of it she is instantly completely viable and with the highest speed growth in a game where doubling is a luxury, on maddening at least, she is useful. People are just stuck with the ideas the funny pitfall man told them years ago and discount her immediately at first glance but will probably soon adapt to how these new game mechanics work and start thinking in terms of what reclass is the best for which unit.
What I'm basically trying to say is tier lists for this game are a mess and will be for a long time, to truly even attempt it objectively you would have to factor in every class on every character including the different growths and class bases each one then gives them which would be near impossible to do accurately.
There are a lot of units you can fix by making them a Berserker first and letting them get good hp and str growths and then reclass them into what you want them to be.
Word. I thought Framme was just an early game staffbot you benched because her offense was so bad, until I realized just how cheap it was to forge the fist art upgrades. Turns out her offense is pretty good, it's just the Iron-Body art she starts with that sucks. Promoted her to martial master and had Flashing Fists +4 by the time I reached chapter 7, and on Maddening she was one-rounding every foot unit that wasn't armored, and without a counterattack due to the brave-like nature of fist weapons. This included sword fighters, which nobody was even close to doubling at that point. All this on top of her staff and chain guard utility turned her one of the most versatile units on my team.
Funny pitfall man also makes vids about units that get under/overrated and talks about first impressions, and I think lapis is an easy shoe-in for the obligatory eventual engage unit, due to the awful first impression the games gives you of her.
I agree and add to that the possible Emblem Ring combinations and skill inheritance. It's impossible right now to know to factor in all of the possible combinations. I'm going to try out Lapis soon as this sounds fun and I haven't used her.
I love your approach, no coddling just straight facts and effective reasoning and results
Lapis has good speed, which is the most important stat in the game. She can snowball easily on the right classes. I also make an argument for Hero, both for chain attacks but also for the ability to wield two weapons.
Same but that outfit is just horrendously bad on her I just can't.
Speed is the easiest stat to make up for in this game
I went through my first maddening run without guides and ran Lapis with Lyn, then when I started diving into the community afterwards I was surprised people didn't really like her as much as I did. She pulled off so many important plays for me
I have had a similar experience with Boucheron. At the start it was really rough, but I found sigurd worked really well with him. And then he continued doing better as i went along. Berserker Boucheron has been such a clutch for me. My first unit to reach tier 2 level 20. And then i reclassed him to warrior since he reached speed cap there. And I get that he has middling strength growth, but fixed mode is wonderful. And with a brave axe now, he does even better. But personla experience means nothing, and this is the first time i run through it so, it is likely i would have seen better performance elsewhere
I had her as a great knight for most of my playthrough and she’s like my second best unit, I love her
I just master sealed her into hero asap and she turned out great. A little squishy but she still got good spd and str growths
Never thought I’d see the day over kagetsu, great job play testing builds !
to be fair, you can get kagetsu to wyvern and he would be doing the same thing without needing a master seal, however, since katgetsu is like top of S tier, being worse than him does not mean bad at all lol. I argue only panette and merrin have the insane base stat impact of kagetsu on arrival.
@@ElijahLotusShield Both merrin at kagetsu has 20 level ups with of growths, but their interal levels is not 20 is 15-17 ive heard. Ontop of kagetsu having the highest personal growths in the game.
@@XenithShadow kagetsu i think have less growth rate than anna, but yeah kagetsu have one of thehighest for sure, he is about top of s tier.
@@ElijahLotusShield less by 5, which is offset by the 5 free levels of stats he just has from existing. As suposedly he come with internal level 15 but with 20 levels with of level up stats.
I never understood why Lapis was so under-rated in your earlier vids and, especially, in your comments. Lapis was always good for me, both on crit builds and a Hero Assist build. I think I'm going to try making her into a tank of some kind in my fourth Maddening run (not running her on my third run because I'm doing magic only) just to see how she does (since she's obviously good as Swordmaster, Hero, and Wyvern).
Good video! I just finished a maddening draft run using wyvern Lapis and she was really good until the end of the game
Never really understood the Lapis hate. Her only problem is that she gets overshadowed by later joining characters. Done 2 maddening playthroughs using her and she’s always been a good combat unit.
The thing is for people like me, there was a lot of hype around using her before the game came out and then you realize she is completely outclassed at everything. 2 chapters into getting her lmao.
That doesn't mean she is not *usable* but it does mean she is *not optimal*. And that was very disappointing for a lot of fans. I won't say it's hate, but I do tend to point out that she is just a worse Kagetsu in almost every way
@@degreeskelvin3025 I feel like us old time FE fans hyper focus on "optimal play" instead of just having fun with a new fire emblem game. I'm not saying optimal play isn't fun but I think you get my point
It's not a matter about being outclassed. I use units based on like rather than 'oh they have better base stats' unless they're totally unusable. I tried using Lapis and she always had like pathetic Str growth. I tried her as Swordmaster and Sword Flier, both she'd tickle enemies even feeding her tons of kills, she was on par with the others in terms of levels.
I didn't try on Wyvern but, her biggest issue is obviously her sad str, and might be THE ONLY WAY to make her usable without dumping every single stat item on her.
Just think a lot of the problem is the first run through engage there are some units that perform just fine in their standard classes, Lapis is not one of them. Kept in sword fighter path she feels super underwhelming and she requires a different class like wyvern but on first playthrough and not knowing how to allocate some of the finite resources in game/optimal emblem ring use it makes it pretty easy to write her off.
That's really the great thing about Engage, the customization is great.
cause you're starved for sword users and when you get her you immediately get diamut and later kagettsu and if you're just looking for someone to fill that sword role then kagettsus stats are so blessed he immediately takes her job
You forgot the best part - her Wyvern armor looks good AF in that red and black.
I think the biggest people hate Lapis is because she has to compete with Alear and Diamant as a sword unit and she comes with a Blade, which causes players to try and use her with the Blade, but she doesn’t have the durability to make use of it.
When i took Lyn off my Ivy I felt like she was under performing compared to my other units but then i gave her dire thunder with a thunder +3 tome and she started killing shit very easily while cantering away. when i gave her thunder +5 she became one my most reliable units that i can just send out to snipe enemies even bosses and pull back to safety. she went from Lindwurm lvl 2 - 17 pretty damn quickly
It’s funny, I’ve been a massive advocate for lapis but recently I’ve been wondering if she fits on a team. Theirs at least 7-8 Solm/Elysian that are optimal to run, meaning you can bring very few characters out of the early game. An example team would be;kagestu, Ivy, Pandreo,Fogado,Merrin, Pannete, Hortensia, and goldmary.
Adding in alear and Chloe you end up with two deployment slots, one should probably go to a mage (Anna/Citrine/Celine), this means lapis is in competion with units like Zelkov and Timerra. She also has the downside of low Sp, competion for emblem rings, and she needs a master seal that makes either alear or Anna good, or makes Chloe juggernaut from chapter 7.
All in all I think Lapis is good but arguably suboptimal, and her viability is very tied to how good you consider her competion to be.
I think the frustration is the perspective on how people view some units in the game. The perspective shouldn’t be: “Unit X is good, but this unit exist so it doesn’t matter therefore said unit is bad.” Regardless if a unit is objectively better or not doesn’t devalue them being viable in a play through when they fulfill their role consistently.
Lapis is best girl and best unit.
Facts, no opinions
People don't like that she doesn't crit much if she's in a group, BUT as a wyvern, she mostly flies out and kills isolated units for me anyway. And when she is grouped, she's trying to tank. The extra +10 Avoid is a seriously nice passive in that case.
She's not my absolute favorite, but she's popped off in both my Hard and Maddening games so far.
All things considered I adore using Lapis. She is very much similar to Nephenee from PoR to me.
So many units in this game feel odd in particular ways in that classes have contradicting starts and wanting to second seal.
I am doing my third maddening run and trying units that I didn’t use in the previous ones. I found out that actually most units are playable with the right investment. Units like lapis and Boucheron are actually not bad.
Whenever I have a physical unit that seems to be underperforming, I just reclass them to warrior or wyvern knight and that generally fix the issue. those 2 class is just that good. Most memorable was my first maddening run and I had yunaka damage fell off super hard after chapter 20, i reclass her to warrior and she was doing work all the way till end of 26.
Just finished my Maddening run a few days ago and I was using Lapis as Wyvern and later became Griffin. She became one of my hard carry end game who was able to dodge most things in the game, including the final boss
I feel they don't give you enough master seals early to mid game.
We now need a wyvern only maddening run with rankings on who is the ultimate wyvern rider
It is Kagetsu.
It's either Kagetsu or Panette.
@@banriswirl6414 Panette is weird since she wants killer bow more and does not have enough speed as a wyvern.
She might be better Griffon though because Kagetsu is short on Str?
@@williamt8234 Wyvern Panette functions either as the best crit build thanks to flying mobility, a high strength bonking build without the low skill on other high strength classes, or a better Ivy with Lyn.
Speed is really easy to work around.
Gryphon is a little bit weird. It ends up not being quite fast or strong enough. Not that she's bad in it, she isn't bad on any physical class, but I like Wyvern better.
With this games limited resources I try and use my master/second seals more conservatively. I could use a second seal on a mediocre unit to make them good, but I could also use the seal on a good unit to make them better.
It's kind of like the discussion of why should I give boots to a general so they can maybe keep up, when I can give it to a flier and make them better. I want to get the most out of my resources.
@AncientSpark Too much babysitting. The game gives you 2 second seals. Why would I make lapis a wyvern when I could make kagetsu one when he is good right from the get go?
With 5 master seals you have alot of competition still. Alear, Louis, Chloe, maybe a healer, diamant, Alcryst, amber, citrine, are all better candidates who want a master seal. You can try to make your favorite character good, but having to go through multiple resources to get there sets them back from units who require less effort.
Some units reclassed may be slightly better in the end game, but I prefer units who can actually get me there without becoming a tedious chore to train. It's why I can't rank a character like Vander as the worst, he contributes so much in the early game.
I wonder how she is as a Great Knight mix tank. With her speed she would be less likely to be doubled while in Great Knight, plus she boosts speed cap by 3 if you invest enough to get her there. She may also have a decent chance to avoid attacks with the help of her passive. Having not too high defense and avoid means enemies might target her. Where as if she had too much avoid or defense they would ignore her. Maybe give her a skill to boost speed to get over some doubling thresholds later in the game.
Again, like I said in your Guide video for her, I agree Wyvern is her best (aesthetically too) and her speed is the secret sauce. It enables her to be good a variety of setups. Wyvern is just so braindead easy to setup. Very little investment like you said.
But you still gotta try her in a backup class, use a break weapon like Steel Blade +4 engraved for +Avo. She can now Dodge Tank, break, and wrack up damage with Dual Assist+. My favorite builds are those that give me more bang for my buck. Why have just a tank when the tank can add passive damage in all combats near it? Or better, it can also break opponents for Warrior damage and safe dives.
I still want to see in practice on Sage as a speedy avo mage, or using Lief on Wyvern/Warrior/Zerker to be a Quad Brave user. Lots of fun things she can do with that personal 55 Speed growth.
This is how I handled lapis on my very first playthrough, it just seemed optimal: fliers are busted, gives her more strength, she's got nuts speed, and she's cute as hell. Gave her an engraved killer sword and she mopped up.
My questions for her is how does she compare this way to someone like Merrin or Kagetsu using a second seal right when you get them? Cause like sure she's serviceable and a solid unit this way. But is she worth the slot over Chloe, Merrin or Kagetsu? And is she worth the early master seal over units like Chloe, Anna, Alear, Alcryst and maybe Jean?
Like I love this style of video about making the most of the unit if you want to use them. But I'd like a part or a separate video explaining how worth it will it be and is it worth the opportunity cost of getting them online if you only care for "optimal gameplay"
She's honestly identical to Chloé in performance at the cost of 1 extra second seal. You use her the same way and get the same results. Lapis will have slightly higher strength, Chloé will have slightly higher speed. So just use whichever character you like better, or use both.
I use her as a wolf knight with lucinas ring and she is a really good bond shield User for cavalary units. Her passive is also quite good for it and having dual assist as a unit which also User daggers is really good to poison enemys
After playing through the game 4 times on maddening, with all 4 times using Lapis as Warrior, Wyvern, Swordmaster, and now in my latest playthrough Hero, I can say that Hero was the class where Lapis performed the best for me, since she was fast enough and hit hard enough to absolutely trivialize the midgame, and by the time her damage started to fall off in the lategame, she was still a great backup bot who was fast enough to dodge attacks and keep brave assist online for longer while letting my healers worry about other characters who need the healing more.
Wyvern was great during the midgame and VERY late into the game when I let her overlevel a bit, but generally there was a good 4 chapters where her damage was struggling and she wasn't able to keep up as a dps. Said chapters were Chapters 21-25... considering these chapters are extremely hard I was not a fan of one of my main dps units underperforming...
Warrior was pretty decent but she just underperformed in comparison to other warriors I used in my other playthroughs, and while longbow spam was fun, Hero Lapis was just the better backup bot.
Swordmaster Lapis was the best, I loved doubling endgame fliers for 0 damage!
Can't argue with those results. She does have one of the best speed growths in the game. Glad to see her shine!
A LOT of units only look bad because they are in the WRONG class by default.
Lapis
Anna
Fogado
Clanne (mage knight is ok, but his growths make him better as a pure physical unit)
Arguably Etie wants to be a warrior
I think 3/4 of the class wants to be warriors lol. The number of units that get auto upgrade B bows on warrior is just silly.
I love Lapis!!! ❤️
I guest the question of running her on wyvern or merrin is the running question
That here is the most important point.... with no investment you get Merrin who is practically the same unit as invested in Lapis. The one deciding factor should be if you want to run fancy S swords on a Griffon endgame...which Lapis and Kag could do but Merrin can't.
I think A tier is pretty reasonable, and she's one of my favorite units. She can be a monster in early-mid game with some small investment, and be competent endgame with it. Her biggest flaw is just that there's a few (kagetsu*cough*) units that simply outclass her in stats so they're better, but lapis herself is still very good.
As for early master seals, I feel like you should only commit to 3 early game units max, maybe 4? Because eventually it takes so long to get another seal that units fall behind due to leveling in their base class too long. My current Chloe had that issue and is now just not great going into endgame, because she was like 18 or 19 by the time I master sealed her. To that end, if lapis is one of your 3-4 units, I don't feel like it's a huge investment to use, more like a decision, and pretty fast after ch11 and your 4th seal you get some very strong units some who are already in an advanced class, like Panette.
Lapis the goat! Griffin knight first run and paladin this run. Absolutely fantastic. Her speed and avo is so good
My first playthrough was blind maddening and i had her in her default infantry>hero thing, and she still ended up being one of my best units. I didn't even know people thought she was bad tbh
I am impressed and I am so happy to see a functional Lapis. My only concern is that 60% speed might fall off at some point compared to something like Berserker or Warrior where she gets more speed and the same/more strength? It isn't bad of course, but will she be unable to double a lot of the endgame enemies she could on a faster class?
One thing that is an objective fact is that Lapis is a better Wyvern than Jean. Jean on Wyvern only has 50% speed growth while Lapis maintains 60% due to her solid base. While his growths everywhere else are better, missing the higher speed benchmark really hurts him and it means he will struggle to double on the class which is more important that having a little more of other stats.
Wolf Knight Lapis with a silver dagger (levin sword backup for armoured units) and micaiah engraved, you become an insane dodge tank and an S tier carry all game, the beauty of her passive is that you can choose to have or not to have 10% avoid which ends up being the difference of 8% hit and 0% hit. You slap on Lucina ring on her and call it a day (daggers apply poison stacks from chain attacks, they are the best lucina ring users). Lapis always doubles with a high might weapon like an upgraded silver dagger so she always does pretty good damage as a frontline unit.
Framme I stand by her being S tier. She is immediately useful being your only healer and remains useful with helping alear be a dodge tank, and as a sage (mage knight when you are speed capped) she is a decent thoron poke user and can double on maddening with fixed growths using bolganone so her damage output is pretty good.
Panette obvious and immediate S tier. Give her Lyn's ring and she kills everything she touches.
Seadall obvious S tier. Healer, buffer, dancer, can tank some hit, he does it all.
Anna is better on random growths and that makes her S tier. On fixed growths she is not quite of a monster, but still one shots fliers and can kill armoured units as radiant bow bow knight Anna. The utility of nuking every flier she sees is better than mage knight, especially since you can give her Claude's ring and give her 2-3 range radiant bow and 2-4 range long bow. No matter what tho, she is needed to make back some gold, especially on maddening.
Jean is S tier as long as you know what you are doing. The most fun for him was as a general especially if you are using Tiki's ring.
Louis still S tier. Hard carries early, slightly awkward during the mid game, then picks back up for the late game on Maddening. If you use Soren's Ring, his ring can allow you to force taunt on an ally making the Maddening AI to attack 0 damage / 0% hit units.
I think it's so funny your updated tier list you were comparing Anna to alot of units (have always loved anna!) And you mentioned her again I said out loud "can't go a video without mentioning Anna huh?" Just in a fun harmless way 🤣
Lapis is a fairly solid unit just by virtue of her availability. Since she joins before you get mugged from your rings, she has time to pick up lance or axe proficiency from Leif, as well as Build +3 or even Canter from Sigurd if you can somehow manage it. This lets her quickly get into a flying class like Wyvern while Kagetsu has to wait until after chapter 13 when he can bond with Ike.
Lapis also has an early hero niche- you want that class skill asap and she can get there very early without any second seal with just a little bond points. Her combat suffers due to not being a wyvern, but I really like having the double chain attacks around this early
That and she also has supports with Bucheron who benefits from having her as a backup.
Finally someone with clout making a case for my girl Lapis!
Very refreshing to hear someone say "the burden of proof". I for one thought she was decent she is Chloe with a tiny bit more strength and a tiny bit less speed.
I just have to say that several units you get early, including Lapis, but also Amber, or Etie but also even someone like Clanne (though he is notorious for getting to 10 and doing anything with early) - if you give them the "wyvern" or "griffon" treatment as Chloe easily gets by default because of her starting class - become effective and snowballing units through chaps 9-11 because they got that master+second seal into promoted class early and hence perform and get more kills on those maps. With early promotions it's less the character but more the advanced class that is doing the heavy lifting.
I was planning my first maddening run last might and was peeping bases and brain storming
Lapis was a surprise discovery for me for how potentially good she could be on wyvern and im heavily considering using her, if not on this one than my next
Seems to me that any physical unit is good on Wyvern. I even had reasonable lucky with Alfred after second sealing to Wyvern.
Alear is probably still A off the back of being a walking/flying +3 true damage and utilizing Dual Support better than anyone since they can A support the whole cast.
TLDR: 90% of units want to be on Wyvern just like in three houses lmao
I was using Lapis as a Sword Master at first. But I switched her to Paladin after a bit, since my Second Seals were just sitting around in the shop. She lost some speed in exchange for better every thing else, in both class bases and growth rates. In particular, 70% Speed alongside 50% Defense had me do a double take. Especially with fixed growths.
I also find it too hard to say no to Knife chain attacks from a Wolf Knight with Lucina for the easy poison stacks. And since that also gives Bonded Shield 100% block rates for cavalry units, I made her a 4th cavalry unit so I could have three of them make a wall to block enemies.
Still have her doing the same gameplan she was doing as a Sword Master though. She inherited Marth's avoid boosting skills from the earlygame, and is currently running around with a Sigurd engraved Steel Sword and a Micaiah engraved Silver Blade. She dodges just about everything aimed at her and proceeds to either kill enemies outright or chunk them for more than half of their HP.
On another note, describing Lapis as Chloe's little sister put a cute image in my head. And now I see Lapis getting together a huge amount of potatoes for Chloe to use as part of her folk food meals.
Not me just now learning that you can use Trade to just swap the stale unit's equipped weapon!!!
My guy. I hadn't even thought about using trade to re-equip a resting unit 😮
I’d love a guide on just how to just practice get better I lost my hard classic run so I’m doing it on normal but I feel like that won’t be fun due to the higher hit rates you get and near the end it’s basically 100% hit rate
You brought up master seal usage at some point, and it made me wonder, do you have any interest in doing a video covering Master Seal usage? I feel like I’m always torn on who to use my early game ones on. I want to use them on units like Jean, Anna, Lapis, and other units I want to second seal, but then I feel like my Alear, Chloe, and a few others fall off hard.
Lapis actually has rather solid bases held back by mediocre growths.
Wyvern fixes those growths. I run sword and axe Wyvern on Lapis and she's extremely effective. She's pretty much identical to Chloé, with the only difference being that she needs a second seal.
My Lapis got screwed by leveling her up in her base class and screwed again by failing to get her a weapon proficiency other than sword, which left her sword locked and stuck in swordmaster. I think this is why a lot of people hate on her because you have to invest some Emblem time on her or some Bond fragments to get her access to the good classes.
I think the problem is that Lapis doesn't immediately show how good she is in her starting chapter. During my playthrough I already had units filling the niches she could have filled.
The video we all needed. #PinkHairMeta
I believe in Lapis supremacy ♥
She’s extremely easy to make into a dodge tank with her personal and a avoid engrave
I think the problem is that she joins too early and kagetsu is fucking top tier and performs better than her by that point however once she maxed out both her and kagetsu are basically the same unit I would S rank her on a trials tier list but A on maddening is actually acceptable so long you keep investing on her she can be really powerful.
The problem is people don't really want to work their units in maddening basically the PoR mentality of early units being fully replaceable
I made her a Hero in my maddening run. Best decision I made. She can tank surprisingly and double and her build is high. Idk how I made her good but it worked
Lapis is *good*
Lapis is basically the #2 at most things. She's never #1. She can fill pretty much whatever role you need an extra of; but she's pretty much never going to be your BEST unit. The reddit has a pretty good thread showing Lapis is comparison to other units in the same class or similar. She's basically always #2; never the standout.
She's good. She's not great. She's a swiss army knife. I mean, being a worse Chloe isn't a bad thing. You're a worst version of maybe the best character in the game.
Boucheron is high hp, dex, speed, and build so he has potential and he has a good passive that is easy to proc, only need lucina ring
True, he does require more XP early game while Lapis promotes instantly but he would be good on Wyvern due to his stats. Wyvern basically fixes high speed low STR units.
Make a video for best possible 10 man unit
Always use her in my playthroughs, she fills the dodgetank role, so that Kagetsu can focus on critical builds.
I love Lapis. She takes a little bit of additional care, but I keep saying, her speed is really valuable. On a side note, if an enemy has more than 20% to hit on maddening, I assume they are going to hit.
Edit: It's also worth mentioning that you didn't take advantage of Lapis' personal skill. The counter attacks might have missed her with the +10 avoid.
On my first run I kept her on marth with sword master and everything only had 20 hit rate on her with a killing age so she would kill on enemy phase. Armor units would fall with Marth rapier. Haven’t tried her on wyvern that’s my next approach
Was thinking about making her a Paladin to have S rank and some solid growths all around. But this Video made me go Wyvern. Gonna try Paladin next run!
You know what, I'll try using Lapis with this on my next maddening playthrough.
You should try running Warrior Kagetsu or Merrin. I've heard it works really well.
Speaking of which, do you think Wolf Knight Alear with Lucina could be busted? It'd make her into a backup unit that could poison through chain attacks, and she supports with everyone, so bonded shield will be at its strongest.
I'm thinking about using it in my next maddening run. I imagine I'll put her through a class with better strength growths first, such as Warrior or Berserker, and then switch into WK.
Boucheron's not bad. Just next stage you get Panette that has as much base str and his attack with the longbow. And a point or two behind of speed, with 17 extra hp and more Def and more res. That's the saddest thing to me. I'd love my early axe bro if he didn't look like a wet noodle after investing in him compared to the free version they just hand you. I feel he wants to be this fast axe user that uses heavy weapons and doubles cause he's fast and thicc, but it just never materializes.
Lapis gives the same impression that units like Alear give intially.
Swords hit like wet tissues in this Game on Maddening. On my first run, I initially had a low impression of even Kagetsu since he was hitting 2s with a Wo Dao as a Swordmaster.
It's true, this game really emphasizes hitting high ATK values so swords are a disadvantage, not to mention they once again don't have a 1-2 range physical option unlike Lances and axes
I never understand the Lapis hate. It's kinda ridiculous.
She's my favorite character the whole game even though I do think she has some obvious shortcomings. It mainly comes down to her defense and res sucking. Shes the literally definition of a glass cannon. But she can snowball very well if put into the right classes.
My first playthrough on Hard I used Lapis as Swordmaster and she literally had base 144 avo end game with like 48 SPD on Lyn's ring. If I used Marth, she probably coulda had more Avoid. Literally could solo like 8 to 10 enemies no problem besides chain attacks.
My current Maddening run, I have her as Hero and she's still slaying. And I mean, come on, she's adorable, damnit. Idk, never understood the hate. She's saved my ass so many times than I can count whenever I needed someone to tank.
I honestly would have thought your favorite unit was Chloe.
Ayo wtf I did not think of using trading like that. So much for break mechanic
Lets say I was never a fan of Wyvern knights , would Lapis still be good on the next best thing (growth wise) , Halberdier?
She could probably do well, but if you're going to run a halberdier I would choose someone with good strength and bad speed like panette to make use of pincer attack. I'm sure it would be good though
I can say she makes a good warrior. Haven't tried her in halberdier.
While she might be good as a wyvern knight (if you give her the +3 speed from lyn that you never mention at any point). I am pretty certain she was given insane favouritism to be able to get that master seal, at the point she did.
To have hit level 4 in wyvern knight she would have got of one you first 3 master seals. As chloe is lapis but better chloe gets one of the 3. Anna will get the master seal from her chapter.
This leaves a single master seal which if we assume your tier list is order within the teirs means that alear, alcyrst and jean would all have to forfeit taking a master seal for lapis to be able to become a wyvern knight.
If were assuming you have infinite money and seals cause of relay trial then maybe she is better, but it is important to take note of the fact that for lapis to be good as you say she wants to become a wyvern knight which is dificult without steal a better units master seal.
If she doesnt get one of the first 3 master seals her validity as a wyvvern knight is somewhat debatable since kagetsu can just join and become one instead.
More likely its units with a good base speed growth are good as wyvern knight as their base speed is sufficient to offset the lower speed growth on wyverns.
This means clanne or framme could have been good wyvern knights if they hadnt be stuck in classes with no speed growth for 10 levels.
Actually on looking at level 10 clanne you reclass him to wyvern knight hes gonna gonna be a faster slightly less damaging version of lapis.
Obviously the on factor in favour of lapis over the other units is that she comes in at level 10 so you get a net exp gain using her over a wyvern riding clanne.
It's not all that insane. Lapis might not be one of the best three candidates for these early master seals, but she's probably something like a shared fourth place. Assuming Anna automatically gets the second seal is a little dubious, imho. Anna is pretty good, but she's very far from being a priority unit the way Chloé is. Much more replaceable, and she takes a few levels post promotion to truly become worth it.
The Kagetsu situation is the same as usual, where he's better but there is little reason not to just run around with three godly wyverns instead of four. The competition isn't about being the best, but about being one of the 12 best, or close enough.
I don't think he's arguing for her being top tier, but she's defo a pretty well performing unit. I think a lot of people assumed she was worse than she really is because of the usual archetype of units like Hana, Marisa or Mia that get overhyped because they're cute and thus people hyperinvest but in actuality are pretty mediocre.
I think the reason people undervalue her is that fallacy from back in the GBA era where people thought you only need "the best" of a particular class. But Chloe, Lapis, and Kagetsu are all good in similar ways, so why not use all three?
I feel like a lot of the unit quality judgment people makes in this game is based on characters who are put in bad base classes (Anna's a good example), not the character in a vacuum.
I don't think that's particularly true anymore. Plenty of people consider Marcus, Isadora, and Sain really good in FE7. Those who hate pre promotes consider Sain and Lowen pretty serviceable.
I find the bigger issue is that class changing just takes a lot of time to develop. It's easy to see why Sain or Marcus are good. They can only be 1 class no matter what you do. Since Shadow Dragon, you can end up in multiple different paths, and that makes it harder to rate a unit.
For example, to me, Sedgar is incredible on Shadow Dragon because I made him a General. To someone else, he's trash because Castor is a better horseman.
This carries into Engage. As a swordmaster, you don't really want more than one imo, but as fliers, you can have a full team of them and it wouldn't hurt you.
Relay trial farm and you'll have enough seals for everyone before ch11 lol doesn't mean you should but you can lol
As people figure out the game more, the meta leans to:
1. Speed is the best stat (obviously - this is true of almost every FE game).
2. Best class for physical high speed is Wyvern because of the mobility, strength boost, and overall growth/base spread.
I used Kagetsu as a Swordmaster at first until chapter 17, switched him to a Wyvern, and he immediately went from busted to borderline God-tier. You could easily convince me you're supposed to have 7 physical + magic Wyverns in an optimal maddening run (Alear, Kagetsu, Chloe, Merrin, Panette, Ivy, Hortensia) and I'd belive you.
Shes a hero for me with Lucinas ring as of ch.23. But, I've been considering making her a lance+sword wyvern
I inherited build+3 from leif and gave her a forged steel axe with sigurds engraving and she does heavy damage or ORKOs even without alears passive. Not to mention I run a hand axe with dual assist+ with brave assist so even her existing benefits such a large area of maps its insane
Idk why the build skills are ignored overall when they're so cheap that you can get build +3 before chapter 11
Speed+3 is similar in cost and you get it CH12 onward, you get the same effect + more AVO
I also Master Sealed her into a Wyvern Knight as I wanted more flying units, with sword avo/ Marth she’s practically untouchable
This extends to every unit before solm, but even if lapis’ stats are competitive, theres still an SP disadvantage. If you didn’t inherit spd+3 what would she have 861? timerra’s trio next chapter come with 1500
lapis joins in chapter 7, which is 5 whole chapters before timerra/panette/Merrin join. She also has the entirety of chapter 13 as panette/merrin don’t get SP and Timerra is mostly on break duty. Plus two paralogues show up before chapter 13. She also can get canter early with some planning.
Lapis on Warrior was my best unit (along with Diamont) in my first run. I’m doing my second run now, and I can’t imagine doing a run without her. For me personally, she’s S tier.
Btw, she very much outshined my Chloe who was a Wyvern, not to say Chloe was bad, just that Lapis was better in my first run.
A lot of people just get see Kagetsu a couple maps later and go "well i guess i don't need Lapis then".
Being as good as Alear isn’t terribly hard. Looking forward to trying wyvern Lapis.
Like what I mean by "doesn't mean you should" is while seals are farmable xp on maddening isn't.
Steel sword with the Macaiah engrave is the closest you can get for Lapis in the early game to as close to 90-100 as possible without going over. Then whenever combat starts her ability procs and she and she pops off
For one Second Seal, I'll take anyone - especially Lapis - as a 2nd Chloé any day.
In this particular case with Lapis, would you still run Kagetsu (considering everyone's main argument about his base stats, etc.)? If so, how?
I've noticed a lot of the people shitting on Lapis just say "well kagetsu is better so you shouldn't use her lol" but it's just such a stupid argument. Yeah, no shit Kagetsu is gonna be better than her, he's gonna outclass every other unit in the game in basically every stat at joining. If you could fill your team with Kagetsus that'd obviously be optimal, but you only have one, and if you want other fast moderately bulky/strong units for Wyverns, Heros, etc. Lapis is a solid fit for that slot. Same argument goes for all warriors being outclassed by Panette, all mages competing with Pandreo, etc, but sword units have had it worst from what I've seen.
Comparing Clanne to boucheron, then taking about Lapis being good is insane to me. She has 5% higher Str growth than bouch, and 10% more speed (but -15 build, so less effective speed).
Also, one rounding things on ch12 in a Wyvern class is not a benchmark of utility.
>Wyvern Knight is an OP class an has been since GBA. Hell, even engage has Sacred Stones "oops all wyvern and great knights" problem. Wyvern is so good that they made GALEFORCE to even the flying classes in awakening.
You could put anna and her silly magic growth on wyvern and it would be good, not really an argument Air Raid is actually one of the better class skills, too.
i want you, linkking, and choops on a video arguing about your tiers. that would be some good chaotic content 😂
Unlikely to happen, FE tuber community is a gated community as far as I can tell
@@IcedCoffeeGaming That fucking sucks, I would have loved that too, especially on engage that has so many mechanics
@@IcedCoffeeGaming That's a bummer, it used to not be that way :/
@@IcedCoffeeGaming you and Michael wasko are solid contenders to your own duo video of some kind.
We could, I tend not to reach out and just focus on making videos.
I don't necessarily consider myself an FEtuber though I have covered a bunch of other games and am currently working on Atomic Heart weapon/build guides :)
Also doing System Shock remake which ships this month (hopefully, was delayed an entire year previously)
Lapis is my S class, she was Op for me dodging every enemy attack and one hitting ever enemy as sword master
Okay but you could do the same thing with Diamant, or have him sword griffin and his strength is high enough growth for that too
Sure, in my 6th run I will try it
I think anyone that comes at 10 instantly ready to promote probably is decent, it’s just deciding who gets your master seals and what’s the best class to take advantage of their growths
It’s a shame tho, some of the early game units actually have good potential but maddening doesn’t give you the structure to see some of them.
Alfred actually turned extremely great for me in hard mode, but it was a bit of a struggle in the mid game.
Then eventually he got fast enough and his defense growth caught up made him crazy tank
I’d love to see some sort of light new game+ like with an unlocked store and keeping whatever bond rings you craft to see what kind of stuff you could do like that
yeah i like her shes good
I love her