If you like seeing the "Big Blows" on Sherman Hill, I'm sure you'll like seeing the double diesels Union Pacific fielded next! See DD35 and DD40 locomotives: ruclips.net/video/wYCaC3DxLIY/видео.html
They were reliable - to a point. The evolution of the plastics industry raised the cost of the bunker C they used for fuel. But that wasn't the problem. GE Schenectady had turbine blades from these units on display in the building 53 entrance. In spite of the intake filters, coal cinders from the roadbed and assisting steam power still got through and you could see the damage they did to the blades, like they did to boiler flues.
I remember running #26 up Sherman Hill in the summer of '58. Really miss the old girl, but man! Putting these into full run with a 6,000 ton train in tow was like a jet engine taking off in terms of how loud it was. Thanks for bringing back old memories!
Been there done that...I loved/love steam and was torn when things began to change...Steam vs Diesel is like Land line vs Cell I guess you can't get away with the old for long....
My grandparents lived in Laramie, WY for many years beginning in the 1930s, I believe, and up until 1967 when my grandfather passed away. In the 1950s, during visits to my grandparents' home, my dad and my grandpa used to take me downtown to the viaduct that ran over the UP tracks so we could watch all the big UP steam locos and the earlier model turbines departing for the trip up "the hill". It was great fun. On the viaduct you could feel the heat generated and be completely "consumed" by the steam and smoke. It made me a lifelong railroad fan!
My grampa and my dad both worked for the UP. I was born in Cheyenne and lived across from the switch yards. I remember one summer they brought a steam engine on streets to the park. Kept taking the track from behind and putting it the next length in front. Great memories attached to the sounds and sights of steam. Thank you for the videos...
I completed 38 years service on the railways in Australia , since early retirement watching material like this is bittersweet , I suppose nostalgia is always like that , great days when you could say you were a real "railway man" , I don't think that title can be applied today in the same spirit .
Has turbine generators are incredibly inefficient unless that exhaust heat can be captured. It’s done in CCGT power plants but there would not be enough space on a rail loco.
@Dave5843-d9m Gas turbines are reasonably efficient at maximum load. Not as efficient as CCGT, but nothing is. They were reasonable compared to medium-speed diesels of the day, bearing in mind that one of these did the job of SIX GP7s. Turboprops had no problem matching the cost efficiency of diesels in aviation, for example. But, turbines are horrible at low power outputs and idle, so they only make sense if you're really going flat-out all the time (like aviation). Diesel is the opposite. They make peak efficiency at ~70% output but are still very efficient down low. A 15L Cummins semi truck engine uses about half the fuel at idle as a 6L gas V8. All this is why the 8500 series turbines had onboard diesel prime movers for yard moves, and let the diesel or steam helpers do all the work when the going was easy. They went away when their fuel ceased to be free, and when it no longer took 6 diesels to replace one turbine. The maintenance and purchase cost of a turbine is more than a diesel, so while it was cheaper than 6 GP7s (especiallywith free fuel), it was not cheaper than 3 SD40s. Bearing in mind, a turbine is an A-B set with a tender. Also, a heat recovery system is not too large to put in a train. Chrysler put a heat recovery cycle turbine into a CAR in the 1960. Some steam trains ran their whole exhaust through condensers to recover water, which is a similar packaging challenge to doing thermal recovery on a turbine. But compared to buying a couple more SD40s off the rack, the custom one-off UP-only engineering wasn't worth it. Heck, even steam really did still fare pretty well against diesel in real total cost, but not if you're the only one on earth still buying 20 of them.
You know...I see a lot of videos like this where the people posting it basically forget about it and never interact with the comment section. I want to take a moment and thank Railfan Depot for interacting with many of us here in the comments, Good on you. BTW, love the video as well. :)
Nice video, I grew up In Ogden Utah at the time Union Pacific used the turbines. I recall seeing them at the head of most any freight train in Weber or Echo canyon. In the early to mid 1950's, it was not unusual to see an east bound freight with a turbine on the point and a Challenger helper pushing at the rear. I have many fond memories of these mighty machines.
Indeed, they are mighty machines! We have some video of the turbines in Echo Canyon. Maybe we can dig that up and make another RUclips video with those clips. Thanks!!
The stories that the old guys tell about these units are pretty impressive. One story tells of one of these giants melting part of a highway overpass. One of my favorites is how Union Pacific decided to take one of the things to Los Angeles. Yeah, that only happened once...
I remember as a young man listening to the old steam engines when my family visited hickory flat Mississippi. Then later on i remember those more modern engines going down the track. I really like the roar of those turbine engines.
That is some rather special footage - a friggin' Challenger being used *as a switching locomotive* for an early turbine. Alot of the MU lashups were originally because the turbines had a nasty habit of flaming out, especially in the tunnels on the eastern side of Wyoming. The diesels would keep the train rolling long enough for the turbines to get out of the tunnels and do a restart, then they'd take over again. They also provided switching power, since the turbines had exactly two settings: "Off" and "Katy Bar the Door". (Or "suck" and "blow" if the conductor wasn't in earshot). It was also why they originally split the units; the head unit of the last-generation turbines had a small prime mover to roll it during switching maneuvers.
Sure would be Great if UP would restore a "Big Blow" and add it to the Heritage / Steam fleet along with the E-units. Great Video - Thank You, and greatly appreciate all the work you put into all your train videos!! Thanks again.
I never knew these were so successful... Like a lot of strange locos, I figured they just built a couple and retired them after a few years... These things had a *long* run! Would be nice if UP restored one of these as well someday?
Wow... would that be fantastic!! Never say never I suppose but turbines are not the PR coup that the Big Boy will be. Steam is ingrained into our history as a country.
@@Railfandepot Yeah, I hear you... But after seeing the beautiful restoration on #4014, I am convinced their guys can do almost anything! Plus, there is so much more experience in jet turbine technology today.
Getting a turbine running would be pretty easy. If I've read correctly, it was basically an LM1500, which is based on the J79 F-4 Phantom engine and still a very common and popular industrial engine. Just go out and buy one and bolt it in. Problem is you can't take it anywhere, because if it was too loud for the 1960s, imagine taking it into Los Angeles today! Besides, 844 is overkill for a passenger excursion, 4014 is double overkill, and a Big Blow would never get out of Notch 2. Lol.
That last scene with the two era's of trains on the same climb, very cool and dam that Loco made smile, although the turbine sailing past assisted, that ol steam machine was putting some serious power to the ground. That's legend stuff there🙏
I had a family member who was a UP engineer working out of Ogden. He was Turbine qualified and absolutely loved those GE Turbine units.Especially the 3 unit combo's. Fast, strong pullers and dependable.
I spent many days here in SE Wyoming and Sherman Hill! My Late Brother In Law William Bill Riley Sr operated out of NP Nebraska to Cheyenne Wyoming, he even operated UP8444 and is Posthumously received the Golden Spike Award!
One of the most interesting rail videos I have ever seen. In fact, never seen anything like it. Steam with turbines? Turbines with diesel engines, many of them B units? Just a rail fan's delight. Thank you!
The problem concrete has with heat is because it always contains water. If you heat concrete too much the water inside starts to vaporize, expands and the water vapor blasts of parts of the concrete surface. This is also what happens in the case of tunnel fires.
Fantastic video! Union Pacific is my favorite railroad behind the Pennsylvania, they had such an incredible assortment of motive power. I so wish we did like the days of old and experimented with varying types of powerplants!
Good videos, thanks for sharing them. One common misconception is that turbine-steam double-heading was done to move heavy trains. They did not do this for several reasons, primarily because of a union agreement that resulted in significant penalties (double pay) if tonnage exceeded the rating for a single locomotive. In fact, double heading was done simply to reposition engines to other terminals for maintenance or due to power imbalances. This has been mentioned several times in recent articles in UP Historical Society's magazine, The Streamliner.
Mark, yes - the turbines, and other UP power of the time, were built with increasing horsepower ratings exactly so trains did not need more than one engine (unless in a helper situation). Design requirements for the Big Boy, for instance, were to get that high horsepower/traction so that one engine could handle a train by itself over the Wasatch Range. -Tim
Didn't it just, Big boy was hammer down! Turbine might be loudest but you just can't beat the visual sight of steam in action along with that piston stroke sound
A Big Boy and Turbine. Now that an “Odd Couple.” I love the turbines! Can’t help but speculate on a return to gas turbine testing with today’s technology and software programs. And, if there were a few of the double units still laying around as test beds.
Turbines and steam... what a combination! If they could get the fuel efficiency up and noise level down it would certainly be something to see! Thanks for watching. -DeAnn
Union Pacific has had so many different power combos through the years and has never been afraid to try new technology. The U50's with the aluminum wiring fiasco causing fires to the 3 versions of the turbines! The Super Turbines are definitely my favorite behind the Big Boys and Challengers! I can't wait for Scale Trains to start their new production run of Super Turbines in HO Scale!! Great channel! I really enjoy it!
@@Railfandepot yes indeed scale trains actually is creating the model they were two guys who actually used to work for athearn and they ventured out on their own and probably got in a little deeper than they thought producing the super turbine as their first model but as I understand it the first production run had a little bit of an issue with some of the connections and stuff with the motors handsome reliability issues as well but the second run that they're going to produce this year is supposed to be a lot better so we will have to see all I know is I want to get my order in as soon as possible I emailed them to get updates
So far, this is the best collection of Turbine clips that I have seen/found. This is my first acquaintance with your site. I'll go back to see what I've been missing.
My father was a railroader during the 1940's and 50's, so it's in my DNA so to speak. I came very close to becoming a railroader myself, but chose to drive a big rig instead, but i still love to watch trains in real time or in videos. My nephew does as well.
I was wondering if there was any footage of the turbines. They were some dirty old working fools. What a classic scene to see them hooked up to the steamers. I can imagine what the fuel costs would be to operate those things today. Thanks for sharing, I knew there was a good reason to subscribe.
The fuel costs would be insane, today. Gas turbines are very inefficient -- they only made sense at the time because the bunker-C oil they ran on was basically a waste product of the oil industry. Nowadays, they refine it further to make it into useful products, so the fuel is as expensive as any other oil product.
I am always amazed how the engineers could make all those different engines run at exactly the same speed. If one is pulling at a different speed you would get buffeting and break couplers or derailments.
I remember seeing Amtrak running a turbine in Ann Arbor, Mi in the 70's. I think it was Chicago to Detroit route. i don't know where else they were. I remember standing on the bridge above them sometimes when they would come through.
Yep, those were the Turboliners. There were a couple of designs, 6 sets were even delivered with European style couplers and buffers. They were a much different design than the UP turbines. They also ran on the "Empire Corridor" in New York.
You guys have made the start of my 2019 a good one I used to have the original VHS tape of The Battle Up Sherman Hill. Just ordered the DVD version form your website. HAPPY NEW YEAR :)
Thank you for the order... I am sure you will not be disappointed. We had the show digitally remastered by a pro - from the original master - and it looks great!!
Excellent Video, Thank you. I read they have one at the Union Illinois Train Museum, I'll seek it out next time I go there. On a side note, go to the Train Museum in Union Illinois, it's awesome. They even built a track around the facility and I got to ride in an old Steam Train.
Really great video! I had never read or heard much about the turbines so I always thought they must not have been very successful. I am surprised they were so successful! I would like to have seen one. Again, great video !!
Turbines, Big Boys and First and Second Generation diesels... you are correct, a great time to be a railfan on Sherman Hill. Thanks for watching! -DeAnn
I remember watching the New Turbines being tested on General Electric's test tracks when I was young in 1955 to 1958 I grew up on outskirts of Erie Pa what a site to see they wore
@@Railfandepot G'day, Our part of the country, Townsville is best to visit in April/August that's our Winter, but still 30 degrees Celcius. Too Bloody hot the rest of the year. Cheers, Denis.
I live in Cheyenne Wyoming and I see lots of trains going east and west. About a month ago I saw a long train going west, it had three engines in front, one in the middle and one at the end. I think that's the most engines I've seen on one train. Oh and on May 4th the Big Bow engine will roll onto the tracks under its own power!
Neat I had no clue that turbines existed other than the UAC turbo train. I dont expect them to come back though, Im sure modern ones are more than efficient enough but I suspect we will instead see pushes to things like trains running on LNG or when into populated areas the eventual push to somehow electrify freight lines and use bi mode locomotives.
We're happy to provide this video! The entire DVD is very interesting... includes steam and the double diesels on the hill too. rfd.vido/Battle Sherman
Like a lot of things, the turbines were a huge success...until they weren't. The complexity of the machines combined with their different kind of fuel, meant they could only be on certain assigned routes. Then the price of their fuel, Bunker C Fuel Oil, started to rise at about the same time that more diesels we're coming out and the obvious flexibility of multiple unit lash-ups became more important than the power of one turbine.
I wonder if gas turbines would be more economical today? When you consider that a gas turbine can run on just about any kind of combustible fuel, why not? Some railroads have converted their diesel-electrics to run on compressed natural gas (methane), and they could easily run on liquefied propane. Even used motor oil wouldn't be a problem, albeit it would probably need to be thinned with an alcohol fuel to be atomized properly, such as methanol or ethanol. And then there's kerosene.
@@Erzahler I I'm not an expert in this, but I wonder if emissions doesn't play a part in this. What kind of emissions would we expect from a turbine that can burn almost anything?
@@Erzahler Bunker C is the cheapest fuel, so running it on more expensive blends would not be practical. Besides, gas turbine engines are only efficient at top speed; they're gas-guzzlers at lower speeds.
@@Greatdome99 I would think a locomotive would always run a turbine at optimal speed, as trains are just using the engine to spin a generator arent they?
@@Erzahler Gas turbines have the problem they consume almost the same amount of fuel with half the load compared to full load. Diesels are better in this behalf, their efficiency declines less if the engines don't run on full load. The only thing which is cheaper to run are electric locos, but they need a more expensive infrastructure.
Fantastic footage there. I do like these older trains more than the newer stuff. That is some impressive power at 8500hp per turbine train. I think the most hp that our trains had in the 1960's was the Hawker Sidderley "Kestrel" that was a prototype for the UK and then was demonstrated in Europe before it ended its days scrapped somewhere in Russia. I have subscribed and please keep up the great videos. All the best from Northern Ireland.
I was in the 7 grade in grade school .. Living in a small town St. Mary's KS. 25 miles west of Topeka . on hw 24 .. And UP RR . Denver line .. Well a diesel electric locomotive engines derailed at St Mary's elevator so there was a crew there working for about 4 days getting the locomotive lift it back up and hauled out of there and then that train cars set there for almost another week then one day I was walking home from school about 3:30 in the afternoon when I came up to the crossing and where the train had the engine derailed at ..and right then along came this great big huge locomotive that was just kind of strange how it maneuvering itself around it hook up to the train and then it backed up and got some of the other cars that were in between where the streets crossings is splitting apart about four times you know and then they got ready to go and this thing was huge man !!!🐳 and it wasthat big whirlybird you know and I didn't know what it was till 2009 ..I never seen one before or dance. but they start giving that thing some gas and it started 😯 roaring and they gave it more gas and started roaring even harder and then they gave it a whole bunch more gas and then the whole neighborhood was shaking that in my guts from trembling and I tell you what it was😃 it was awesome and I never forgot that and that was back in about in the late fall of .1969
I love it, absolute raw power on the rails. Good thing the EPA did not exist then otherwise these locomotives would not have seen the light of day. Great video, thank you.
I was called out to work on one of these power unit back around the year 2002. It wasn't the turbine itself but rather the diesel engine used as a pony engine to start the power turbine at local municipality, It was using as supplement electrical energy during peak times in the summer. The engine used was a Cummins 8 cylinder v engine. I think it was a 555 or else the 802. Wasn't so much the power needed but rather the RPMs needed from the diesel and the cummins V engines turned the highest RPMs in diesel mfg's up then and now ,, Less exotics custom builds for tractor pulls and such. Even at 3000 or 3500, I can't really remember ( I think it was taken past red line normally) it barely capable of turning the old loco turbine fast enough for a good start up. I know with the electric motors they produce now with variable speed without the need for a slip clutch or a hydraulic torque converter system would be just what the engineers need to eliminate that old Cummins boat anchor,, that is if the price for the electric motor would justify a purchase like that? Kinda miss turning wrenches on unique jobs like that,, Almost as interesting as a 1935 tow boat that needed work done to its clutches for the propulsion. Spent most of its life in San Francisco bay as a harbor tug but now is living in the Illinois river and used by the Dept. of Natural Resources to transport farm implements via a river barge to an Island on the river. The Island is planted with corn so the wild ducks can have their fill,, and the hunters can bag fat ducks.
I think we see exactly that at the 43 second mark. It is either a Big Boy or a Challenger right behind the turbine going into Hermosa Tunnel. Check it out: ruclips.net/video/spngeetQfRI/видео.html
If you like seeing the "Big Blows" on Sherman Hill, I'm sure you'll like seeing the double diesels Union Pacific fielded next! See DD35 and DD40 locomotives: ruclips.net/video/wYCaC3DxLIY/видео.html
M325 moise
will we get to see the coal turbine as well?
@@michaelplumb298 I am not sure I have any footage of that experimental engine. It never made it to production... but it was a great experiment!
They were reliable - to a point. The evolution of the plastics industry raised the cost of the bunker C they used for fuel. But that wasn't the problem. GE Schenectady had turbine blades from these units on display in the building 53 entrance. In spite of the intake filters, coal cinders from the roadbed and assisting steam power still got through and you could see the damage they did to the blades, like they did to boiler flues.
I have the reverser plus throttle lever off of #13.
I remember running #26 up Sherman Hill in the summer of '58. Really miss the old girl, but man! Putting these into full run with a 6,000 ton train in tow was like a jet engine taking off in terms of how loud it was. Thanks for bringing back old memories!
Thanks for sharing your memory! I'll bet that was indeed a LOUD locomotive!
Just curious, did you guys have to wear ear protection? That had to be bad for your hearing even though you were in the cab.
@@b3j8 It wasn't required, but most of us did. It was incredibly loud!
@@Railfandepot Holy cow. You better believe it.
@@foxtrot7747 I believe it! Thanks for the reply!
Steam engines and jet engines together. What a time it must have been to see that transition in person !
I agree! 1950 to 1970 would have been a railfan's dream!
It was!!!
That was an amazing site, huge steam and a turbine!
Been there done that...I loved/love steam and was torn
when things began to change...Steam vs Diesel is like Land line vs Cell
I guess you can't get away with the old for long....
Hobby Electronics my uncle’s layout is a midwest road, CB&Q circa 1950-1965 so he can run steam and diesel.
The Union Pacific has a thing for operating the most powerful locomotives available.
If America were a vehicle, it'd be a UP loco.
Big. Powerful and you can not ignore us.
@@jed-henrywitkowski6470 it's just a product of geography.
That's what happens when yo ass have to climb wasatch grade
The Headliner Train Of UP Is The Legendary Historical "Big Boy", #4014.
My grandparents lived in Laramie, WY for many years beginning in the 1930s, I believe, and up until 1967 when my grandfather passed away. In the 1950s, during visits to my grandparents' home, my dad and my grandpa used to take me downtown to the viaduct that ran over the UP tracks so we could watch all the big UP steam locos and the earlier model turbines departing for the trip up "the hill". It was great fun. On the viaduct you could feel the heat generated and be completely "consumed" by the steam and smoke. It made me a lifelong railroad fan!
That sounds like the ultimate railfan experience...especially since you could do it with your father and grandfather. 😀 Thanks for the note. - DeAnn
@William Sullivan Sounds like great memories! :-) -DeAnn
My grampa and my dad both worked for the UP. I was born in Cheyenne and lived across from the switch yards. I remember one summer they brought a steam engine on streets to the park. Kept taking the track from behind and putting it the next length in front. Great memories attached to the sounds and sights of steam. Thank you for the videos...
I completed 38 years service on the railways in Australia , since early retirement watching material like this is bittersweet , I suppose nostalgia is always like that , great days when you could say you were a real "railway man" , I don't think that title can be applied today in the same spirit .
What a great career!! There are a lot of railway men (and women) working the rails today.
Biggest p.r. issue with these were the noise, but an awesome example of U.P. 's commitment to exploring all technology available to them
when the cost of bunker c fuel went up it was no longer cost effective to run them
Has turbine generators are incredibly inefficient unless that exhaust heat can be captured. It’s done in CCGT power plants but there would not be enough space on a rail loco.
And diesel locomotive hp went up by the late 60s. Those little f units got replaced by much more powerful engines.
@Dave5843-d9m Gas turbines are reasonably efficient at maximum load. Not as efficient as CCGT, but nothing is. They were reasonable compared to medium-speed diesels of the day, bearing in mind that one of these did the job of SIX GP7s. Turboprops had no problem matching the cost efficiency of diesels in aviation, for example. But, turbines are horrible at low power outputs and idle, so they only make sense if you're really going flat-out all the time (like aviation). Diesel is the opposite. They make peak efficiency at ~70% output but are still very efficient down low. A 15L Cummins semi truck engine uses about half the fuel at idle as a 6L gas V8. All this is why the 8500 series turbines had onboard diesel prime movers for yard moves, and let the diesel or steam helpers do all the work when the going was easy.
They went away when their fuel ceased to be free, and when it no longer took 6 diesels to replace one turbine. The maintenance and purchase cost of a turbine is more than a diesel, so while it was cheaper than 6 GP7s (especiallywith free fuel), it was not cheaper than 3 SD40s. Bearing in mind, a turbine is an A-B set with a tender.
Also, a heat recovery system is not too large to put in a train. Chrysler put a heat recovery cycle turbine into a CAR in the 1960. Some steam trains ran their whole exhaust through condensers to recover water, which is a similar packaging challenge to doing thermal recovery on a turbine. But compared to buying a couple more SD40s off the rack, the custom one-off UP-only engineering wasn't worth it. Heck, even steam really did still fare pretty well against diesel in real total cost, but not if you're the only one on earth still buying 20 of them.
Wow. Turbines, diesels, challengers all slaving up the grade - totally outstanding!! Thanks.
Thank you for watching! :-) - DeAnn
You know...I see a lot of videos like this where the people posting it basically forget about it and never interact with the comment section. I want to take a moment and thank Railfan Depot for interacting with many of us here in the comments, Good on you.
BTW, love the video as well. :)
You are most welcome... we are railfans too, so we enjoy the comments and the back and forth.
Nice video, I grew up In Ogden Utah at the time Union Pacific used the turbines. I recall seeing them at the head of most any freight train in Weber or Echo canyon. In the early to mid 1950's, it was not unusual to see an east bound freight with a turbine on the point and a Challenger helper pushing at the rear. I have many fond memories of these mighty machines.
Indeed, they are mighty machines! We have some video of the turbines in Echo Canyon. Maybe we can dig that up and make another RUclips video with those clips. Thanks!!
I wish I could have seen that. i live in Ogden and enjoy the train museum there.
This type of channel is the way to create more rail fans. Keep up the good work, and thank you!
Thanks!! We're going to keep it up... more railfans is great!!
The stories that the old guys tell about these units are pretty impressive. One story tells of one of these giants melting part of a highway overpass. One of my favorites is how Union Pacific decided to take one of the things to Los Angeles. Yeah, that only happened once...
Lol
Yes cities in California literally banned them for noise
I remember as a young man listening to the old steam engines when my family visited hickory flat Mississippi. Then later on i remember those more modern engines going down the track. I really like the roar of those turbine engines.
Were they as loud as others have said? Thank you for watching! -DeAnn
That is some rather special footage - a friggin' Challenger being used *as a switching locomotive* for an early turbine.
Alot of the MU lashups were originally because the turbines had a nasty habit of flaming out, especially in the tunnels on the eastern side of Wyoming. The diesels would keep the train rolling long enough for the turbines to get out of the tunnels and do a restart, then they'd take over again. They also provided switching power, since the turbines had exactly two settings: "Off" and "Katy Bar the Door". (Or "suck" and "blow" if the conductor wasn't in earshot). It was also why they originally split the units; the head unit of the last-generation turbines had a small prime mover to roll it during switching maneuvers.
Yes, those turbines could go out .. and then be "re-lit" all on the fly!
Sure would be Great if UP would restore a "Big Blow" and add it to the Heritage / Steam fleet along with the E-units. Great Video - Thank You, and greatly appreciate all the work you put into all your train videos!! Thanks again.
I fell in love with trains at age 10 on a trip from Cedar Rapids to Portland Oregon in the Domeliner. Wow! What a feeling. Thanks!
My first train was an O Scale from my Dad when I was very, very young. Since then I graduated to 1:1 scale. :-)
Nothing like the sound of those turbines. Unique. The original power for our HST was the same, utterly unique, equally memorable
I never knew these were so successful... Like a lot of strange locos, I figured they just built a couple and retired them after a few years... These things had a *long* run! Would be nice if UP restored one of these as well someday?
Wow... would that be fantastic!! Never say never I suppose but turbines are not the PR coup that the Big Boy will be. Steam is ingrained into our history as a country.
@@Railfandepot Yeah, I hear you... But after seeing the beautiful restoration on #4014, I am convinced their guys can do almost anything! Plus, there is so much more experience in jet turbine technology today.
Would be nice. The turbines are way cooler than the Centennials and they do keep that DDA40 running.
One of the last batch of Turbines is sitting near Ogden UT railway station.
Getting a turbine running would be pretty easy. If I've read correctly, it was basically an LM1500, which is based on the J79 F-4 Phantom engine and still a very common and popular industrial engine. Just go out and buy one and bolt it in. Problem is you can't take it anywhere, because if it was too loud for the 1960s, imagine taking it into Los Angeles today! Besides, 844 is overkill for a passenger excursion, 4014 is double overkill, and a Big Blow would never get out of Notch 2. Lol.
That last scene with the two era's of trains on the same climb, very cool and dam that Loco made smile, although the turbine sailing past assisted, that ol steam machine was putting some serious power to the ground. That's legend stuff there🙏
This is DeAnn... what can I say? I agree!
I had a family member who was a UP engineer working out of Ogden. He was Turbine qualified and absolutely loved those GE Turbine units.Especially the 3 unit combo's. Fast, strong pullers and dependable.
And they sure are interesting! I'll bet he some great stories!
Man that sound of those turbines plus emds together must bin awsome wish I could have seen here it in person.
I understand those turbines could be LOUD! :-)
@@Railfandepot Loud does not describe the sound of the big turbine. Close to standing behind a 747 at full take off power.
The loudness of the diesel engines was nothing compared to the loudness of the turbine's exhaust!
4321grp io I'm shure they did drown out the emds
4321grp guys it's like whow the EMDs drown out the GEs.
I spent many days here in SE Wyoming and Sherman Hill!
My Late Brother In Law William Bill Riley Sr operated out of NP Nebraska to Cheyenne Wyoming, he even operated UP8444 and is Posthumously received the Golden Spike Award!
Great scenes of the turbines!
Thank you for the note!! - DeAnn
A turbine and 3 diesels... Must've been a great sound
You'd never hear the diesels. It would be like three kazoos next to a chainsaw!
Impressive video!!! These turbine locomotives were powerful and my guess is, they were also extremely reliable....Awesome footage!!!
One of the most interesting rail videos I have ever seen. In fact, never seen anything like it. Steam with turbines? Turbines with diesel engines, many of them B units? Just a rail fan's delight. Thank you!
You are most welcome! Thanks for watching. - DeAnn
I read somewhere they were hell on tunnels. The turbine exhaust was so hot blowing on the roof of the tunnels, it would blast off chunks of concrete.
Interesting, I've not heard that... But I can certainly see that happening!!
The problem concrete has with heat is because it always contains water. If you heat concrete too much the water inside starts to vaporize, expands and the water vapor blasts of parts of the concrete surface.
This is also what happens in the case of tunnel fires.
Fantastic video! Union Pacific is my favorite railroad behind the Pennsylvania, they had such an incredible assortment of motive power. I so wish we did like the days of old and experimented with varying types of powerplants!
Yes, both the UP and PRR liked to experiment with motive power!
Good videos, thanks for sharing them. One common misconception is that turbine-steam double-heading was done to move heavy trains. They did not do this for several reasons, primarily because of a union agreement that resulted in significant penalties (double pay) if tonnage exceeded the rating for a single locomotive. In fact, double heading was done simply to reposition engines to other terminals for maintenance or due to power imbalances. This has been mentioned several times in recent articles in UP Historical Society's magazine, The Streamliner.
Mark, yes - the turbines, and other UP power of the time, were built with increasing horsepower ratings exactly so trains did not need more than one engine (unless in a helper situation). Design requirements for the Big Boy, for instance, were to get that high horsepower/traction so that one engine could handle a train by itself over the Wasatch Range. -Tim
The steam/turbine side by side at the end gave me goose bumps! Good stuff.
Thanks!!
Didn't it just, Big boy was hammer down! Turbine might be loudest but you just can't beat the visual sight of steam in action along with that piston stroke sound
Those diesels are awesome looking with those extra tenders
Thanks for watching! I agree, and those are BIG tenders! - DeAnn
When I saw UP 26 I jumped for joy since I live in Utah and see it when I go to Ogden. It was cool seeing it in action.
I came on your channel by accident. I was not aware of these turbine beasts! Great video! I am subscribed and I rang the train bell! Thanks!
Thank you!! We will try not to disappoint!!
Same here cheers
It just blows me away that we can and have invented and built these incredible creations.😊
My favourite locomotive, what a machine with all that effortless power, makes me misty eyed almost.
A Big Boy and Turbine. Now that an “Odd Couple.” I love the turbines! Can’t help but speculate on a return to gas turbine testing with today’s technology and software programs. And, if there were a few of the double units still laying around as test beds.
Turbines and steam... what a combination! If they could get the fuel efficiency up and noise level down it would certainly be something to see! Thanks for watching. -DeAnn
Union Pacific has had so many different power combos through the years and has never been afraid to try new technology. The U50's with the aluminum wiring fiasco causing fires to the 3 versions of the turbines! The Super Turbines are definitely my favorite behind the Big Boys and Challengers! I can't wait for Scale Trains to start their new production run of Super Turbines in HO Scale!! Great channel! I really enjoy it!
Thanks for the nice words about the channel! :-) I did not know a Turbine was scheduled for model production. I will need to get in line!!
Jeffrey Ford Scaletrains are rerunning the UP turbine? When was this announced? Thanks.
@@Railfandepot yes indeed scale trains actually is creating the model they were two guys who actually used to work for athearn and they ventured out on their own and probably got in a little deeper than they thought producing the super turbine as their first model but as I understand it the first production run had a little bit of an issue with some of the connections and stuff with the motors handsome reliability issues as well but the second run that they're going to produce this year is supposed to be a lot better so we will have to see all I know is I want to get my order in as soon as possible I emailed them to get updates
That turbine engine might have been rolling along faster with other helper units, but 844 was running unassisted up the hill. Awesome stuff
Agreed!!! :-)
These gas turbines could outpull any steam locomotive. 844 might have been unassisted but that’s because it wasn’t pulling near the weight.
844 is definitely the coolest and fastest locomotive in the fleet
So far, this is the best collection of Turbine clips that I have seen/found. This is my first acquaintance with your site. I'll go back to see what I've been missing.
Thanks! We have several videos just about ready to upload.. So there will be more! 😀
My father was a railroader during the 1940's and 50's, so it's in my DNA so to speak. I came very close to becoming a railroader myself, but chose to drive a big rig instead, but i still love to watch trains in real time or in videos. My nephew does as well.
I've had the opportunity to be with the crew of a working steam locomotive and made more than one trip on the Texas State Railroad. Long live Big Boy!
You are a lucky guy!!
I enjoyed every trip and also was able to help ready a locomotive for the day's run. Steam rules.
Aren't you glad Big Boy 4014 is back alive after it's 60 year slumber? It's iconic to the US as much as the Shinkensen trains are to Japan.
Oh yes! I'm still in a little bit of disbelief!! But, seeing is believing... We have a film crew there and how to have new video soon.
Thanks for the very interesting video. I have to say the sound of the turbine engines is weird and unsettling!
I was wondering if there was any footage of the turbines. They were some dirty old working fools. What a classic scene to see them hooked up to the steamers. I can imagine what the fuel costs would be to operate those things today. Thanks for sharing, I knew there was a good reason to subscribe.
Thank you! We'll try to give you even more reasons to be happy that you subscribed! :-)
The fuel costs would be insane, today. Gas turbines are very inefficient -- they only made sense at the time because the bunker-C oil they ran on was basically a waste product of the oil industry. Nowadays, they refine it further to make it into useful products, so the fuel is as expensive as any other oil product.
Excellent footage. Many thanks.
Thank you for watching!!
Union Pacific's thirty 8500hp gas turbines were delivered between August 1958 and June 1961. The first to be retired were the first four
what an incredible video. Wish i was older to have seen some of these incredible locomotives.
Yep. These are a sight to behold in film, they must have been truly a wonder in person!
I am always amazed how the engineers could make all those different engines run at exactly the same speed. If one is pulling at a different speed you would get buffeting and break couplers or derailments.
The diesel electrics and even the turbine are all connected and controlled by the lead cabs.
I remember seeing Amtrak running a turbine in Ann Arbor, Mi in the 70's. I think it was Chicago to Detroit route. i don't know where else they were. I remember standing on the bridge above them sometimes when they would come through.
Yep, those were the Turboliners. There were a couple of designs, 6 sets were even delivered with European style couplers and buffers. They were a much different design than the UP turbines. They also ran on the "Empire Corridor" in New York.
And from Chicago to St. Louis.
I could only imagine the noise that they make! I bet they had a prodigious thirst, probably prodigious squared!
Hi from NZ,
Anthony
You are correct on both counts... they were loud...and thirsty!
You guys have made the start of my 2019 a good one I used to have the original VHS tape of The Battle Up Sherman Hill. Just ordered the DVD version form your website. HAPPY NEW YEAR :)
Thank you for the order... I am sure you will not be disappointed. We had the show digitally remastered by a pro - from the original master - and it looks great!!
Wow, thanks for making this awesome UP Turbine Video! I like it when the turbine is paired with a Big Boy steamer. 🤩
I heard that UP used them in Los Angeles for a brief period, but people complained about the noise and so that was short-lived.
They were loud everywhere!😉👍 Thanks for watching. -DeAnn
Excellent Video, Thank you. I read they have one at the Union Illinois Train Museum, I'll seek it out next time I go there. On a side note, go to the Train Museum in Union Illinois, it's awesome. They even built a track around the facility and I got to ride in an old Steam Train.
I've also heard great things about the Illinois Train Museum! Thanks for confirming. -DeAnn
Nice to see these older locomotives in action Keep them coming.
We plan on it! In the hopper right now is old film from Chicago's trolley days and another 4014 tribute. Lots more coming! :-)
Really great video! I had never read or heard much about the turbines so I always thought they must not have been very successful. I am surprised they were so successful!
I would like to have seen one.
Again, great video !!
So glad you enjoyed the video! :-) - DeAnn
“The Big Blows” 😍😍These are my favorite O-scale trains in my collection.
great video
great cleavage
The pure heaven of the sound of the Big Boy.
Awesome clip. Thanx for posting!
James, DeAnn here... thanks for the compliment and thanks for watching!
Big blows aside Big Boys on Sherman Hill whar a time for tail fans thanks for uploading and to Union Pacific
Turbines, Big Boys and First and Second Generation diesels... you are correct, a great time to be a railfan on Sherman Hill. Thanks for watching! -DeAnn
Turbines combined with BIG BOY? With THAT much power you could pull a mountain!
Wow, tts just great, I wish I would have seen them pull
Thanks for bringing back memories from many years ago watching the “big blow” engines in Cheyenne WY in the late 1960’s
10,000 HP? That's beast mode!
My best memories with that kind of locomotive, my home was near the railroad in my city.
I remember watching the New Turbines being tested on General Electric's test tracks when I was young in 1955 to 1958 I grew up on outskirts of Erie Pa what a site to see they wore
That was a great place to be for a railfan!!
Exemplary railfan vid. Well done and thanks very much!
We enjoy bringing you these videos! - DeAnn
Great video. The 8500 turbines are now my favorite locomotives. I wish I was alive back then to see them run
Thanks! They are amazing machines! I think we have 3 DVDs on the turbines. They are all good sellers.
Those GP9B's are so cool! They ran the GP9B'S with the DD40X also
I always liked B units, nothing but power, no control, no extras... Just power.
All that needs to be said is amazing power 10K HP capable of hauling 735 cars on level track. Really enjoyed the video
Nice to see some different views of Big boy steam engines.
Yes... and in vintage film!
Great action film footage, thank you.
Great Video showing Union Pacific in it's Glory Days. A Happy new subscriber. Cheers from Australia. Denis.
Thanks Dennis! Australia is on the bucket list for me!
@@Railfandepot G'day, Our part of the country, Townsville is best to visit in April/August
that's our Winter, but still 30 degrees Celcius. Too Bloody hot the rest of the year.
Cheers, Denis.
@@Railfandepot when you visit Ozzie come to Lake Conjola 2539 NSW We don't have trains here but the weather is great all the time of the year Cheers
I live in Cheyenne Wyoming and I see lots of trains going east and west. About a month ago I saw a long train going west, it had three engines in front, one in the middle and one at the end. I think that's the most engines I've seen on one train. Oh and on May 4th the Big Bow engine will roll onto the tracks under its own power!
Yep... lots and lots of trains use that mainline!!
I especially like the veranda. Wouldn't it be awesome to see one today?
Yep! It would be one of the top things on my "wish I could see on the tracks today..." list.
Neat I had no clue that turbines existed other than the UAC turbo train. I dont expect them to come back though, Im sure modern ones are more than efficient enough but I suspect we will instead see pushes to things like trains running on LNG or when into populated areas the eventual push to somehow electrify freight lines and use bi mode locomotives.
There have been some tests already on LNG fuel. I suspect that will be looked at even more strongly as environmental regulations are tightened. -Tim
I had a Video about Sherman Hill years ago but i lost it thanks for sharing this Railfan Depot
We're happy to provide this video! The entire DVD is very interesting... includes steam and the double diesels on the hill too. rfd.vido/Battle Sherman
Very Nice Video !
Thank you for the kind words!!
So cool to see the Big Boy helping out the newer generation equipment.
Like a lot of things, the turbines were a huge success...until they weren't.
The complexity of the machines combined with their different kind of fuel, meant they could only be on certain assigned routes. Then the price of their fuel, Bunker C Fuel Oil, started to rise at about the same time that more diesels we're coming out and the obvious flexibility of multiple unit lash-ups became more important than the power of one turbine.
I wonder if gas turbines would be more economical today? When you consider that a gas turbine can run on just about any kind of combustible fuel, why not? Some railroads have converted their diesel-electrics to run on compressed natural gas (methane), and they could easily run on liquefied propane. Even used motor oil wouldn't be a problem, albeit it would probably need to be thinned with an alcohol fuel to be atomized properly, such as methanol or ethanol. And then there's kerosene.
@@Erzahler I I'm not an expert in this, but I wonder if emissions doesn't play a part in this. What kind of emissions would we expect from a turbine that can burn almost anything?
@@Erzahler Bunker C is the cheapest fuel, so running it on more expensive blends would not be practical. Besides, gas turbine engines are only efficient at top speed; they're gas-guzzlers at lower speeds.
@@Greatdome99 I would think a locomotive would always run a turbine at optimal speed, as trains are just using the engine to spin a generator arent they?
@@Erzahler Gas turbines have the problem they consume almost the same amount of fuel with half the load compared to full load. Diesels are better in this behalf, their efficiency declines less if the engines don't run on full load.
The only thing which is cheaper to run are electric locos, but they need a more expensive infrastructure.
Fantastic footage there. I do like these older trains more than the newer stuff. That is some impressive power at 8500hp per turbine train. I think the most hp that our trains had in the 1960's was the Hawker Sidderley "Kestrel" that was a prototype for the UK and then was demonstrated in Europe before it ended its days scrapped somewhere in Russia.
I have subscribed and please keep up the great videos.
All the best from Northern Ireland.
More videos are coming! We had to take a break.. because our camera broke. :-(
Wonderful video of the turbines!
Many thanks, Bruce. Thank you for watching!! -DeAnn
Nice! Man, I sure love these turbines, especially the Big Blows and the Verandas! I hope we can see Coal Turbine #80 someday.
Outstanding Units , tremendous power .
Wow. Love the history, very interesting. Thanks for sharing 👍
Glad you enjoyed it! More videos up now and more on the way. Thank you for watching! -DeAnn
@@Railfandepot 😀
I was in the 7 grade in grade school .. Living in a small town St. Mary's KS. 25 miles west of Topeka . on hw 24 .. And UP RR . Denver line ..
Well a diesel electric locomotive engines derailed at St Mary's elevator so there was a crew there working for about 4 days getting the locomotive lift it back up and hauled out of there and then that train cars set there for almost another week then one day I was walking home from school about 3:30 in the afternoon when I came up to the crossing and where the train had the engine derailed at ..and right then along came this great big huge locomotive that was just kind of strange how it maneuvering itself around it hook up to the train and then it backed up and got some of the other cars that were in between where the streets crossings is splitting apart about four times you know and then they got ready to go and this thing was huge man !!!🐳 and it wasthat big whirlybird you know and I didn't know what it was till 2009 ..I never seen one before or dance. but they start giving that thing some gas and it started 😯 roaring and they gave it more gas and started roaring even harder and then they gave it a whole bunch more gas and then the whole neighborhood was shaking that in my guts from trembling and I tell you what it was😃 it was awesome and I never forgot that and that was back in about in the late fall of .1969
Yep, that's how operaters described the turbines... It earned them the nickname "Big Blows".
I love the roaring sound of the turbines. It's too bad that I never experienced it first hand. Aarre Peltomaa
I understand it was LOUD. :-) -DeAnn
I love it, absolute raw power on the rails. Good thing the EPA did not exist then otherwise these locomotives would not have seen the light of day. Great video, thank you.
Thank you for the kind words! :-)
I dont understand why they still arent in use,they say they where noisy but the sd40 sond much louder and the turbines had much power
Because they were terribly inefficient, costly to maintain and the cheap fuel that made them worthwhile got too expensive.
But will start in the cold
I was called out to work on one of these power unit back around the year 2002. It wasn't the turbine itself but rather the diesel engine used as a pony engine to start the power turbine at local municipality, It was using as supplement electrical energy during peak times in the summer.
The engine used was a Cummins 8 cylinder v engine. I think it was a 555 or else the 802. Wasn't so much the power needed but rather the RPMs needed from the diesel and the cummins V engines turned the highest RPMs in diesel mfg's up then and now ,, Less exotics custom builds for tractor pulls and such.
Even at 3000 or 3500, I can't really remember ( I think it was taken past red line normally) it barely capable of turning the old loco turbine fast enough for a good start up. I know with the electric motors they produce now with variable speed without the need for a slip clutch or a hydraulic torque converter system would be just what the engineers need to eliminate that old Cummins boat anchor,, that is if the price for the electric motor would justify a purchase like that?
Kinda miss turning wrenches on unique jobs like that,, Almost as interesting as a 1935 tow boat that needed work done to its clutches for the propulsion. Spent most of its life in San Francisco bay as a harbor tug but now is living in the Illinois river and used by the Dept. of Natural Resources to transport farm implements via a river barge to an Island on the river.
The Island is planted with corn so the wild ducks can have their fill,, and the hunters can bag fat ducks.
Interesting work! And, it sounds like the tow boat is doing well in "retirement". :-) - DeAnn
Fascinated by the designation of the gas turbine otherwise known as the "Big Blow".
Beautiful piece thank you big boy honkhonk
O had only heard of these GIANT'S, unroll I saw them here. Thank You.
You are most welcome. :-)
amazing video thank you
Pure delight! Thank you!
A gas turbine combined with a big boy? That lash up would be incredible to see.
I think we see exactly that at the 43 second mark. It is either a Big Boy or a Challenger right behind the turbine going into Hermosa Tunnel. Check it out: ruclips.net/video/spngeetQfRI/видео.html
One of my favorite locomotives
0_o
Up 4014 + Up 26 + Up 26b and 26c = strongest locomotive power ever in the U.S.A. xD
You should head down to Ogden, we just painted UP 26 and she doesn't look quite like she's been left in the open for decades.