Could the Mini Actually Outrun the Alfa in Real Life?
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- Опубликовано: 12 авг 2021
- The Italian Job movie with Michael Caine was fantastic, but I've always wandered about the car chase, was the 1960 Mini Cooper really fast enough to outrun the Alfa Romeo Giulia? and which is a better buy and is going to appreciate more in the future?
The clips form the original movie are copyright of Paramount Pictures and were downloaded from Movieclips: • The Italian Job (1969)... 
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Have owned both. The mini feels and drives like a go-kart. You simply floor it, drive it at a corner, lift for a tiny moment as you turn in and then floor it some more. It will under or over steer depending on tires, road surface, how well your "lift off flick" worked and so on. It is fast because it weighs 600kg and corners stupidly well, not because it is "fast". It is too light to get big hp down.
The Alfa is a different critter and has to be driven differently. Where the mini is gasping and thrashing at 4500rpm, the Alfa is just getting going. Let the revs drop below 3000 and you're failing to drive it how it was meant to be driven. HARD. So, floor it through each gear to 7000rpm and keep it above 3500, using the throttle to brake and set the car up at the extreme, harder for over steer, lift gently to wash speed off with understeer. Corners require a sharp stab of the brakes just as you turn in, to settle the car's "roll", then use the throttle to hold it on the edge of traction once you have picked your line. If you are at say, 5000 rpm, on entry, a quick life off will set it up. The Alfa will not bounce like the mini or bump steer, it is VERY physical to drive whereas the Mini is so small that you have no room to be chucked about.
Which would I have now? The Alfa for sure. The mini is comparatively crude, loud and harsh and only gets more so as you add go-faster stuff. The Alfa can be made to really handle and really go and still maintain a civilised driving demeanour in traffic and on long motorway runs.
Only the original basic Mini was around 600kgs; that Rover Mini is nearer 700kgs.
I've owned Minis and I own a '69 Alfa.
The fastest long-distance journeys I've ever made were by Mini.
Loved to drive my Alfa Giulia Super ... It was really the nicest car to be in. The only problems I had with it, were due to rust, when it got older. Pleasant memories ...
The 2000 gt veloce does not really need to be pushed. The smaller engines maybe.
Dude, your should seriously try writing a book. This brief description made me feel like I was actually driving!!
Lot of patriotic love for the mini but That Alfa is utterly utterly gorgeous
Totally agree, a stunning looking car, it has flair.
took the words out my mouth
Nope, it actually looks like a turtle....fugly thing😳😳
@@mixerD1- you nailed it!! Rubbish video, with a patriotic tendency. Alfa is waaaaayyy better than the Mini, and yes, it is gorgeous.
@@anonimalombardafabbricaaut7824
Perhaps you should have gone to speck savers ! 😂😂
Hi all. It was my Giulia that @number27 uses in the film. As so many of you like it, I thought you might like a few details:
Italian car, delivered new to Tivoli
Originally Dutch Blue, believed repainted about 3/4 years ago in Olive Green metallic
Standard matching numbers 1600 twin cam engine with twin Weber 40DCOEs
Alfaholics fast road springs with Koni red and yellow dampers. Rear ARB delete. New bushes/trailing arms
Alfaholics/Maxilite Tz/Ti style wheels in 5.5 x 15" and 185/65 Pirelli tyres
Front seat belts in red by Quickfit Safety Belt Services
New Nardi Classic 360mm wooden steering wheel with black spokes
Fitted, fettled and set up by Ian Ellis and DTR European Sportscars
That is a beautiful Giulia! Very tastefully done mods always enhance the original, only wish more owners took that kind of care in making changes. Well done!
I love the look of your Giulia. Beautiful colour and tastefully done modifications. I instantly thought from looking at the alloy wheels that the car may have been fettled by Alfaholics. Really lovely looking example.
What a BEAUTY 😍🏁
I bought my Olive Green Giulia 1600 with my first real pay check. After driving it for a mile, I thought "this is it, I will never need another car". Almost 40 years later I still own it, and may one day give it the Alfaholics treatment it deserves.
that car is beautiful mate!
It's a cliche that old cars have more driving feel than newer ones for a reason- it's almost universally true. By refining cars for so long we also create a situation where the driver becomes further and further removed from the raw mechanical effort and makeup of these machines. The goal has been almost to hide the noise and feeling from the uncouth oily whirring bits to the occupants. So no modern car can replicate the old school feel of a gently trembling steering wheel, the feedback from the pedals, the excited jolt that you feel in the palm of your hand on the gear lever as the drivetrain rocks about and engages. Sure it's rose tinted misty eyed nonsense to a point. The height of nostalgia. I do know for a fact it is far easier to smile driving an old car than a new one.
Agree and very well analysed! thanks for watching
True - until you drive a decent new car.
Old school cars were drivers cars , modern cars you just steer them
Old school is best school 🚸
@@ianmangham4570 that's what my Grandpa used to tell my Dad , then my Dad used to tell me n now I keep telling my son 🤣
Throw a thousand pounds of lead in the boot to simulate gold bars, then let’s see how the mini does 😉. I don’t think it would outrun a bicycle in that condition.
my sentiment exactly
Interesting......
But it may go round corners better, 'cos the Mini is very nose heavy.
For balance - there was a 15 minute section of the film explaining this... the Minis were fettled 'Cooper' style and these cars consistently won motorsport events in the 60's, so context. Anyone who has been in Police Traffic (yes) knows that the patrol cars are poor, particularly beat cars, run 24/7 into the ground, sloppy gear boxes, out of tune in 3 weeks due to urban stop / start use. And they are bog standard cars due to the cost of running / replacing them (wear and accidents). We once killed an MG Maestro in 3 weeks - it fell apart. My domestic car (Cavalier SRi 130) at the time was better than the work beat cars, by a country mile.
Italian cars in the 60s through 80s were not renowned for their reliability either. If you owned an Alpha, Lancia or Fiat at the time you would understand this. All of them rotted from the inside out, all had electrical problems and regular failures due to cheap build and parts. The Fiat Supermiafiori was great... whilst it was running and not at the dealers, again.
The only decent cars in the British cops back in the day were the Police 'Specials' like the Rover 3500 V8 Vitesse models we had fitted with fuel injection, touring car suspension and an air kit (Tom Walkinshaw consulting). These were typically 100 BHP above stock Rover V8s and used for special duties such as armed response and diplomat protection. I once did Leeds ring road to Sheffield centre (Yorkshire, England) in 12 minutes on a shout for an armed robbery. They were our secret weapon, typically un-marked and with Heckler & Koch MP5s in the boot. Two running per shift, day and night.
So to go back to the point, a Cooper mini, even with gold in the rear, would wipe the floor with a tired, clapped out Italian beat car.
It they put the actual weight thats quoted in the film the car would of bottomed out and the tyres would burst
Great video. My dad worked at Cowley and the first car I remember was a mini in the 60s. The most memorable, however, was our Guilia 1300. In ‘72 we went to Barcelona in it towing a caravan. Took the hovercraft to France too. I remember the Veglia clocks and the twin cam engine - classic.
Wow, what great memories!! Thanks Paul!!
Bear in mind that the mini used in this video is in fact the Multi point fuel injected model from the late 90s which has a significantly less powerful engine than the model used in the Italian job, which was a Cooper S. different era, different engine. Amongst other differences
Another big difference is who's driving those Mini's. No shade at all on number27, but there are very few drivers who have ever possessed the pure driving talent of Rémy Julienne. He could perform miracles in even the lowest powered cars (like the Citroen 2CV in For Your Eyes Only)
I had a modified 1275 Cooper S back in the day which I used as a 'fast road' car. It produced about 95 HP at the crank which was pretty good back then for a road going Mini. The 45 DCOE it was fitted with was on a good straight manifold so it protruded right back into the passenger compartment and sounded glorious. The thing revved out to about 8k . The cam was produced locally (NZ), an LR1 I think, which did bugger all below about 3 and a half before suddenly kicking-in and catapulted the car into hyper-drive. The combination of induction noise, straight-cut gearbox whine and exhaust made it impossible to hear anything below shouted conversation. When driven at max revs, which is to say all the time, it was a mind-altering experience. It was such a joyous fun little car.
I will have to disagree with you Jack. There was never a time when Alfa made terrible cars......, mostly, they just made cars terribly.
........now, BL on the other hand did make some terrible cars, terribly.
@@marksbikeexports5123 If they got made at all. ;)
Well said sir, from a true Alfaholic.
....try to drive a simple Vintage"Giulia-1,6-S"-sedan, and you'll feel again the lost -"pure-pleasure" of "driving"!!!
Early Alfas...Rust. Rust. Rust.
Your comparison, here, has evoked great responses from like-minded enthusiasts.
I am minded to recount a short story, tho it's not Alfa versus Mini.
It was 1970. I was driving an old Simca Aronde (slowly) back from Brighton to Devon. A small-ish roundabout was ahead on the dual carriageway. I heard and was then passed by a very rapid Porsche 911. It sounded wonderfull. The driver dropped a gear and twitched it through the roundabout with a squeak of rear tyres as he accelerated out and away.
As this was happening I heard the scream of a mini in hot pursuit. From the sound and pace it must have been either a 1071S or similar and with straight-cut gears. I recall a smell of Castrol R as he passed.
The driver simply threw it through the roundabout for all he was worth and in doing so made up some yards against the Porsche.
I watched with a grin as they disappeared . It was no contest but great to view.
Thank you for your video & best to all.
These memories will last thoughout our long years of dementia and confinement. I once drove from Plymouth to Glencoe in a Rover 3500S. In some ways, it was a heavy car, but nobody ever beat me away from the traffic lights, and though I was a gentleman in those days, and never abused the engine, keeping it below 4000 rpm, I would race anybody when not on a motorway. After Glasgow, I was caught up by 2 Renault 5s, early edition, standard cars, not the hot hatches that came later. Lightweight, front wheel drive. I held them off for mile after mile along a classic road, narrow, and even narrower when crossing culverts across Rannoch Moor. Eventually, they got the better of me, they were just easier to drive fast in twisty narrow roads, and first one and then the other overtook me. I felt that I had defended well, and perhaps a better driver, with a younger car, could have beaten them, but I arrived in Glencoe with a smile on my face.
@@helloxyz yes, sorry i'm so behind here. I have driven the 3500S, not my own though. So much better, I thought, with the manual g/box and a fine car too. Happy memories for sure. Best etc.,
That 105 Giulia is stunning! I was never knocked out by the cars used in the film, but that’s a humdinger!
Black fiat dino coupes, have got to be the best baddie cars in any film.
@@danielnightingale8085 those black Dinos are gorgeous!
@@simonhodgetts6530 whats funny is if you watch the bluray they are all different colours when the doors open. Also Mr beckerman doesnt make it all the way to the river with the miura, he falls out half way down 😂
@@danielnightingale8085 What's even more impressive is how Beckerman got to the tunnel in the first place. You can quite clearly see that when it's pushed over the edge there is no engine or gearbox in it :) Apparently it was just a bodyshell
@@jonathanwells10 magic miura😂
Many years ago, when I was still at school, so it must've been around 1973, a friend of my neighbour's older brother had a red Cooper S with a cut down roof, a 1340cc engine and wider wheels with flared wheel arches. I think it had twin Webers on it and a straight cut gearbox. It whined a lot and sounded fantastic. I recall being told that it would reach the end of the speedo, 120 MPH and that the owner was a tall chap, like yourself, so the front seats were really cut down affairs which looked to have zero padding. All of that group were Mini owners and all were hotted up, to a varying degree.
The Giulia is one of my favorite cars of all time! They just look so nice, everything fits together, great engine, lovely interior. wow!
How lucky I was, I've owned an Italian Innocenti Cooper 1300 and a Giula 1300 Super.
The Giulia was more of an all rounder, I could do 160 km with 4 guys going on wintersport, the Innocenti handled like it was on rails.
They still are in my top-3 of best cars I ever owned.
OK, so what's the third one? 😁
My old mum had one of the first 850cc 1959 mini’s which she acquired in its 15th year…She loved that car and when it could be repaired and body welded no more, she still kept the registration. Mum has long gone, but my old Fiesta now has that ‘59 plate!😊
I bought a new Giulia in 1968, put unadjustable Konis on it and 10-to 1 CR pistons. Did a season of Novice Racing at a good track near Vancouver. Had two 101 Alfas before and other Alfas subsequent.
The Giulia was and still is a remarkably good car. That the suspension was set up to cover from just the driver to a full load of passengers and luggage ended up with too much understeer.
In 2009, I bought a very good Giulia and put a "warm" 2L in. Got some good advice from an engineer in Portland Oregon who had raced them for decades. He advised removing the rear sway bar, installing 500 pound springs up front, keeping the stock springs at the rear and using Koni "Reds". The latter set at 2-"ticks" firm up front and the rears at full "soft".
Compared to the 101s and other 105s I had owned, this Giulia turned in so quickly that I was concerned about too much oversteer.
Phone "Dave" and asked if it needed a stiffer front bar?
The response was "Just drive it hard and get used to it".
Best handling Alfa I ever had and was particularly good on back roads with uneven surfaces.
Ciao
I’m not sure it’s quite an apples to apples comparison - a 90s, fuel injected Mini on wide low-profile tyres, vs the Alfa still running taller tyres and on carbs. In like-for-like racing, the Alfa and the Mini are comparable - the Mini has the advantage on very twisty or wet surfaces - the Alfa on flowing, fast surfaces. Where I believe the Alfa shines is that it has so much in common with the exotica (Ferrari, Lamborghini etc) of the time in construction. All cars rusted in the 60s and 70s - Alfa got caught up in the Lancia Beta horror show.
Plus, a fwd car vs a rear wheel drive ?? Obviously, apples vs oranges !
The Mini is a closed go kart, the Alfa, a talented but traditionnal car.
No contest.
Well that Alfa had an "Alfaholics-package", look at the wheels and the ride height it is not exactly standard. IMO the older Minis (with the 10 inch wheels) ride better and also have even better road holding. They are lower than the 12- and 13 inch cars. Would have had 75HP at 640Kg. The Alfa would have 98HP and 1040KG. No doubt which one would be quicker.
@@mariopizzamanmario8563 The Mk1 used in the film had 55bhp. By the time you throw two people into each car, the power-to-weight is, as near as dammit, the same. The Alfa, with more power and that slippery shape, will have a higher top speed but the Mini is lighter overall and will be more nimble. I’ve raced a lot of Minis in my 1969 Alfa Giulia coupe - none of us are standard but we’re front runners under our particular regs. They are incredibly nimble (almost too nimble for a race circuit, bizarrely, as it’s almost wasted) and, in the wet, very little can touch them. On an open circuit (Thruxton, Silverstone, etc), I’m quicker. On more twisty, smaller circuits (Knockhill, Anglesey, etc) it’s very close. Through the streets of Turin, I have no doubt the Mini would triumph - on the open road, I think it’s a wash.
@@meanredspider Yes I have raced vs Alfas too... the thing is though, in the Italian Job it is 1 person in the Mini and two policemen in the Alfa. :-)
@@mariopizzamanmario8563 Plus all the gold in the boot...
The Mini is, and always was, one of the best thiings to throw down a country lane. I've had five over the years so I'm not exactly unbiased. If you haven't driven an original Mini then you really, really should. Be warned though, it will make anything else feel slow witted and stodgy in the handling department.
Give me a Hillman Imp over a Mini for your country road!
@@saxon-mt5by Oh no, not for me. Mini every time. Sorry.
Except a Lotus 7 and a and an updated GT Junior? And a few others
@@nigelfisher3756 Still the Mini, especially when you take cost into account.
My dad bought an early Mini - after the Morris Traveller (early one with 948cc engine) was retired. Before that it had been a Jowett Bradford - the only cars he had any affection for. After that it was into the colourless world of Cortinas and such.
My father had a Giulia and my mother a Mini. I drove them both fairly regularly when I was 18 which was 60 years ago. The Giulia won hands down, the Mini couldn’t be driven in rain because the distributor was just behind the “radiator “ grille and totally unprotected, the cords that opened the doors constantly broke, the straight gear lever was like a pudding spoon and the boot was useless. Most of these problems got sorted but the car should never have been released like that. The Giulia however, though in a much higher price bracket, was class and just as good to drive as the Mini but in a different way.
I now drive a Giulietta Super 150bhp Multiair which if you think about it is in a way an amalgam of the concept behind the two cars.
Agreed. Driving my Mini at speed in driving rain did many bad things.
@@raypurchase801 I had a mini 50yrs odd years ago we used fit a little piece of metal on the grill in front of the distributor no trouble in the rain PROBABLY buy Alfa
today if i can find one that had not rusted away
@@robertsmith9810 All true.
@@robertsmith9810 there's is a few for sale in Cyprus that are mint check the greek sites out, like the greek auto trader.
My 1st car was a mini and I've owned a few Alfas over the last 50 years. I never had a problem with rain in England with a mini and correctly adjusted the gear shift was fine. I loved my Alfas but they were not perfect.
when I was a kid, having lived in Germany most of my life, I can assure you that the Alfa is by far the faster car. I suspect the mini may have just beaten the Alfa in a city environment tearing around like a go kart, but on the Autobahn over here these Alfas nearly always ripped past everything. Once in a while you'd see an Alfa Romeo Giulia Super 1.6 which had a top speed of 179 km/h which back then (I'd see them still hacking up and down the Autobahn in the late 70s), would just fly past everything. Minis back then had a top speed of less than 90 mph, i.e. less than 140 km/h. A Ford Cortina 1.6 "Super" only managed 87.5 mp/h!
a 1275 cooper s of the day would manage 100mph, so more than the 90mph you state, which would be for a lesser cooper, say a 998 or 970s. On a good B road, the Alfa would be dropped fairly easily. On motorway, sure, the alfa would be gone as top speed in a mini was never a strong point, but that's not what they are about.
@@markburton8303 well I agree. The mini concept was, as far as I know, a solution to a problem, i.e. being able to drive around in a car so compact it made e.g. London city driving a breeze, park anywhere get through where larger cars couldn't etc. and be fuel efficient.
@@cosmicdebris2223 exactly. It was a car for the people in line with the ethos of the beetle and designed to combat the fuel crisis of the time, while being more practical than the bubble car, which Alec Issigonis hated!
It's context. How fast is a chicken? Not very... now go try to catch one... The Mini is a chicken....
The Alfa's may have given BMW a run for their money.
Out of those two i'd take the Guilia, it's a gorgeous thing, if you had a 60's MK1 1275 Cooper S there it''d be a much harder choice, although basically the same shell (with internal door hinges and wind up windows etc) the 60's Cooper S is a different wee beast to the 90's car, although the 90's car is nice the original 60's S (and 998 Coopers) are just glorious with bags more character.
The Cooper S is by far the best option for appreciation. Wee worth spending some more money and buying the Cooper S in the first instance.
and the steering, in the alfa is sloppy in the middle, because it has a steering box,..not a rack, just needs adjusting
@@ukmusichero True, had a few American cars (here in Scotland) and the box always seems to wear in the straight ahead position.
@@Markycarandbikestuff that's is because the steering wheell spends most of it lime in the straight ahead position,...or there abouts
Fun facts from Downunder: In the 1967 Bathurst 500 (still Australia's toughest motor race), two privateer Alfa 105 GTVs (with the same 1600 underpinnings as the Giulia) finished 3rd and 4th - outright - behind two Ford-factory entered V8 Falcon GTs. The Alfas finished half a second and 2.5 seconds behind the winning Falcon after 500 miles. A Mini Cooper won its class too, but was 14th overall. The only Giulia finished 5th in its class behind a bunch of V8 Falcons (class was based on RRP, not engine size) but was 23rd overall.
But... the Giulia Super Ti from the same "privateer" team (Alec Mildren Racing) actually won the 1965 Sandown 6 hour race outright (similar sort of race to Bathurst) , beating a Lotus Cortina with a Mini Cooper finishing third - 14 laps down on the Giulia. Even the Lotus Cortina was four laps behind the Alfa.
Which is a pretty like for like comparison.
Someone lent me this race with the Giulia Ti, lotus Cortina and the mini , is it available on dvd 📀 please?
@@johnchurch4705 not sure if you can get the whole race on DVD but there is a great program from the time about the race on you tube.
@@johnphaceas7434 would you know what it’s called please so I could find it on here to watch?
@@johnchurch4705 easy - just search for Sandown Six Hour Race 1965. Its only 22 minutes long.
@@johnphaceas7434 thank you 😊.
Your pronunciation of Alec Issigonis had me in stitches 😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣
I had a 1975 1.8 Alfetta GTV 2 door (in the same metallic green as the car in this video) which was launched when the Giulia 105 2 door was still in production (both basically shared the same mechanicals). I *loved* that car and it was a thrill every time I drove it. At the time I thought it looked so much better than the older style 105 but now, looking at online examples for sale, I think that 105 2 door coupe has aged really well and looks so classy while the Alfetta - if any are left! - now looks of its time, very 70s.
I thought FWD originated with Citroen’s traction avante’
Indeed, though mini added transverse engine, gearbox in sump etc and showed it could make small cars work
In part, the Citroen was the first, mass market popular front-wheel drive, but the Mini was the one that brought together the key packaging features noted by Peter Hurst. It was definitely 20 years more advanced over the Traction Avanf in construction and other areas too. Driven both many times, and the Mini feels much more modern.
There were the fwd Cord models in the USA in the 1930s as well, but were upmarket cars unlike the Mini and Traction Avant.
What a fantastic idea for a video 👍 Great work! Loved the video😎
Thank you very much, really glad you enjoyed it!!
I think the Mini will continue to appreciate in value more reliably; that lack of refinement and driver involvement is what everyone will crave when there are wall-to-wall soulless electric cars everywhere!
Same for the Alfa: their prices will go skyrocket
Brilliant down to earth documentary - you are good at this stuff. Makes me think I need an Alfa one day.
My Grandma owned Giulias in the Sixties and early Seventies. While I never regarded the Giulia as pretty, it was a wonderful car. If you had to ride a Mini for a a very long distance you would soon long to ride in a Giulia. Those two cars cannot really be compared at all. An Italian friend of mine told me about a highway police Giulia that was shown to him by a friend. They had an over te top tuned racing engine in it. They said this vehicle could outrun about everything on the higway at the time. But the maximum life span of the engine was about 3500 km!
The Mini had a couple of important features you didn't go into, one was the engine. The designer wanted a 600cc engine but management would not approve making it. They insisted he use the 800cc engine they were making for the Austin A40. This was rather oversized for such a small car and gave it sparkling performance even in stock form. The other feature was the 10 inch wheels, it was the first car to have them and they were crucial to getting so much passenger room in a small package.
Mr Danforth - as a matter of fact, the first Mini prototypes used the 948cc version of the A-series, and it was capable of > 90mph. But it had the carbs at the back and the exhaust at the front, plus they thought that was a bit much. So they turned the motor around and dropped the capacity to the 848 we know and love - the combination of smaller capacity and the additional idler and whatnot to get the gearbox to rotate the right way led to a 10-15mph drop in top speed.
I come from a family of Alfa Romeo drivers (I mean of the classic Alfa Romeos of the times before 72).
My Grandmother used to own and drive several Giulias. The only Alfa Romeo left in our family is a 67 Spider. This car is mechanically identical to the Giulia but much more attratctive.
The Giulia was by no means a beauty, but she was a comfortable and sporty car. Alfa Romeos love to be driven in higher rpms. Then the sportiness of the car begins to show.
We should not forget that this type of Alfa Romeo engine paired with a 5 speed was already available in the Midfifties!
I remember a friend who owned an old Cooper and he used tor drive it hard! I was quite impressed by the performance of the car.
But it was a hard ride and everytime he let the gaspedal go, the stench of gasoline inside the car was so strong that I worried the interior might explode as I used to smoke while riding as a passenger.
Back in the late seventies I've owned both of them. First the mini in the 1275 version. Could drive it like a cart, but a drive longer than a hour was to painfull for my back (I'm 6'5") and I swapped it back for my original car, the Capri 2.0 DOHC series 1.5 (Larger head and rearlights). Working nextdoor to an Alfa dealer, I managed to exchange the Capri for a Giulia Super. This was the best car so far and loved every minute with her. After she was wrecked by a VW transporter ignoring the signs, several other cars, BMW, Citroën, DAF and back to Alfa with a few 33's a 155, a 146 and finally the GT. Such a shame Alfa doesn't get the sales they deserve. They make really good, non rusting and reliable cars for many years.
I drove a giulia 7 years as a dailey, but it was lowered, had high comp pistons and hot camsafts,it was fast
Sounds awesome!!
Great original content, enjoyed this! Next up you need to get your hands on a AM DB5 and a Ferrari 355 to see if the AM can out run the 355 in Goldeneye!
A few years ago myself and other Alfa fans drove down to Italy. Alfa's of various ages but mainly modern, except 1. The car you were driving Jack. This by far had the most attention from the general public especially in Italy. Locals were all over it. A great restoration.👌
Two cracking cars..Love yester year cars...Great wee video..
Brilliant information and a great video to watch, really liked Jacks presentation.
Thank you Andrew!!
Loved this video.. Great idea Jack👍You can't beat a stripped out mini on 10inch wheels running a Hot A series.. Unbeatable on Twisty roads 😁
Hey thanks Super Seven 7!!
The Mini’s transverse engine resulted in the distributor coil and spark plugs being the front just behind the grill and they were prone to electrical problems in the wet.
When the Italian Job first came out and we saw the Minis crossing the weir it raised a few eyebrows of mini owner because it was pretty obvious they had been specially modified for the film.
It is unlikely a production mini would have made it to the other side!
Great vid. I've owned many Alfas and Minis. Still have a 63 Mini Minor and 65 Cooper I drive all the time. Just wonderful.
You say the wider wheels and arches were done for aspheric’s.
In fact they where added because of rallying.
When the minis were re homologated in the 1990’s they discovered the tyres available wouldn’t fit and the range didn’t include snow or gravel tyres.
13” wheels also allowed bigger brakes to be fitted.
Really interesting, thanks for pointing that out Alec!!
Aesthetics. The use of the Sportpack wide arches and alloys had nothing to do with rallying. 12 inch 'narrow' wheels were standard on the 1275GT from 1974 and were put onto all the mainstream Mini's in 1984 when they gained the 1275GT's bigger 8.4 inch disc brakes in place of their all round drums. At this point the narrow plastic flared arches were introduced as a mainstream item too. Previously they had been available on the 1979 Mini 1100 Special to cover the wider alloy wheels that model came with. The brakes then remained unaltered all the way through to end of production in 2000. The Cooper reboot came along in 1990 and bodily was a standard Mini (with narrow black arches) fitted with a single carb'd 1275cc engined essentially taken from the MG Metro. That engine then gained single point injection in 1992. When the BMW owned Rover Group facelifted the Mini in 1996 (multipoint injection, front mounted radiator and an airbag were the highlights) that was when the Sportpack wide arches and [very heavy] attractive alloy wheels were made available. No motorsport homologation reasoning was behind this, it was simply an option pack. They'll grip for days on those wheels but the handling is quite leaden compared to a standard "narrow" car. Personally I like the look but it's a very Marmite choice. As for values, I am very very sceptical of the £15-£20k possible value for a 1996-2000 Mk6 MPi, unless its a low miles car with a genuine Cooper aftermarket kit (because bear in mind there was no factory S car, only a standard Cooper - which by '96 was relegated to being a trim level and had the exact same engine as the standard Mini). I suppose an ultra low mile last of the line Cooper Sport 500 could be around that money. And the reason a taller person finds the late cars rather cramped is that from late 1992 (if memory serves), Rover fitted much chunkier seats based on those from the Metro, which are far comfier if your under 6 foot tall, but severely compromise the driving position compared to the older much thinner pews.
worked at a rover dealer when this model came out, if you went for the wide wheel package - you lost 6mph off the top speed, due to greater air resistance, and rolling resistance.
bmw wanted the mini to make a profit for the first time in its entire life, so it went up £5k for this model, as they were expensive to build [labour intensive]. people moaned, but still bought them all up.
the noise [drive by] regulations were really hard to meet, so they moved the radiator to the front to absorb noise, and massively dropped the diff ratio to slow the engine down to pass the test. the car was also raised up to get a catalyst underneath the floor without it scraping the ground. brake pads previously only lasted 6000 miles on minis, so harder pads were fitted, which needed a servo fitting - not easy under a mini bonnet, the brackets are a work of art. fuel injection + airbag were to pass regs, along with headrests + locking seat runners [ fastened at back to floor] it was almost impossible to get into the back seats on this model, as the headrests hit the roof when tilting the seat.
the wide wheel/tyre package made it totally undriveable in snow, it could not turn a corner when pulling out of a junction, and special "split tread" tyres were made specifically for this car.
basically those wheels were for asthetics only, nowt to do with rallying or brake discs, they looked good + hid the gap under the wheelarches off the reqd jack-up for the cat. standard wheeled cars drove much better , and were faster.
@@smithp573 if you read the book Last of the works mini’s it clearly states the reason they developed the sports pack arches.
It was so they could use wider rubber.
They were creating a group A spec car that was going to tackle the world rally championship which was cancelled by Rover after they entered the 1996 Monte Carlo rally.
To homologate the cars they had to sell the kit on the road cars
@@alecbayford7881 I'm no expert when it comes to Minis, so either story could be true; all I will say is don't believe everything you read in books - even the experts can get things wrong!
Brilliant video! I remember the 2019 London Classic Car Show that I attended (and filmed) had an Italian Job stand marking the 50 year anniversaryof the film, no Carabinieri Alfa sadly. I would love to own a 105 series Alfa Romeo coupe; an added Alfaholics handling pack will be the icing on the cake!
Thanks Henry, I’d love one too!!
Owned a 2006 Mini JCW supercharged version. Stock other than some minor suspension upgrades. I think is was rated at 207-210 hp. Being so light this thing would fly. And the supercharger whin was pure music to my heads.
Awesome vid. Still luv the looks of those 105.
My first car was a 63 Austin Mini 850. Loved that car. Drove almost 700 km to Expo 67 in Montreal with 4 large guys in it and camping gear on the top. Two complains, the rubber bushing coming from the firewall would wear with the result the engine and thereby the gear shift would flip about. Secondly the sitting position was such that to control the gas petal you had to bend your foot well back at the ankle with a resulting pain in the ankle on long trips. Great on icey roads put it in a 4 wheel slide sideways drift and drive out. Flat tire, two guys hold it up on one side and take off wheel. Broke a fuel line going into a snow drift and replaced twith a Chrysler brake line.
Great film as usual........but every car enthusiast should be able to pronounce Issigonis, its the law. Get practising, there's a test on Monday morning!
Isso-Gonis.. got it now! 😄
@@Number27 Ha!.....top work
Every time I would get the giulia, alfas are very very good cars but the mostly have been mistreated, had hard lifes and minis also root. Choose the alfa every time!! 🇮🇹🍀🇮🇹
Awesome cars. I think the Mini will outlast simply because of it iconic design. Very nice video. Keep up the good work.
Love your comment "if you just drive the modern stuff you're missing out"! All the more reason to get in the shed and work on my Bugeye!
Why didn't you test a '68 Cooper 'S' like they used in the film? I owned three of these (Mk.11's) in the 70's and they were incredible, memorable beasts. The standard 1275 'S' had 76bhp, the 998 Cooper was 55bhp. Also they would have been much lighter than the one you drove. Jack, please, Alec Issigonis designed the Mini!
but the minis in the movie would've been heavier by all the gold they stuffed into the boot, and the roll cages
The Alfa needs to have the 4 pot ring out. I think the Alfa is more rewarding trying to find the 10/10 than the mini, at least it seems so from your driving.
Mini wasnt much more ground breaking. That alfa had a monocoque, crumple zones, a transaxle, 5 speed, hemispherical heads, and dual overhead cams in the early 1960’s the mini was an engine turned sideways by comparison.
The alfa is a piece of artwork, call Italian cars good or bad, but they have always been stylish.
Oh that Giulia! Just stunning! I own one myself, it really is quality. Very solid car, pity about the rust that affected so many of them. You said another thing there that resonates with me: Jewel like. Such is many things, the gear change, the instruments, the click of the seat belt buckles, the engine, those Dellorto carbs. I could go on. The Mini isn't bad either, but I am really biased here.
Wow, enjoy your Giulia!! Hoping to get one sometime!!
This car is on Weber 40s. Glad you like my car 👍
@@christophergavin9188 You have a stunning car! Those wheels and Alfaholics suspension package are very tasteful upgrades. Lovely steering wheel as well.
@@christophergavin9188
Swapped my 69 Mini Cooper for a 72 giulia with 2.0 nord engine (I still have the 1.3 engine) both cars are brilliant, back roads for minis autostradas for Alfa, love them both, I think I’m going to get a mini as well though at some because I miss it. P.S my Alfa has trick bits from Alfaholics like yours (kinda)
This must be 'The Italian Job' nostalgia month in Ol' Blighty. It was only a few days ago that I watched Iain Tyrells' re-enactment of the opening scenes showing the actual Muira in the film being punted around the original road in the movie ( -Stelvio- -Pass- St Bernard Pass ). I'm sure I am going to enjoy your vid also Jack. 👍
Just re-watched that Iain Tyrell re-inactment today!!
That’s awesome, thanks Lazarus!!
@@Number27 Don't, his singing is cringeworthy.
St Bernard Pass not Stelvio.
@@geoffsaunders4960 Ah ... thanks. I stand corrected. www.theitalianjob.com/the_film_locations_italy.htm
The Classic Mini is simply a class act. People come and talk to you when you park a classic mini and tell you when they had one. It may not be as sophisticated as the Alfa, but it wins hands down for me.
Had a few minis, always great fun as you felt that the car was part of you! The downside of this was you felt every bump as it was less refined. A great second car though for short journeys.
Thanks Jack, must be great to drive a car you don't then have to work on?! 😂
That Mini may have got cramped quite quickly for you!
It is nice to be able to drive and then give back the keys!!
Would have been nicer or better to have as near a copy of them as possible. The Mini you have is far different than the one from the movies and the same with the Alfa! Mini wins for nimbleness and size in the city scenes, but the Alfa would have had them in the higher speed. Overall the period cars were a good cinematic match up for the overall chase.
Very true. The 10 inch wheels of the originals give the car a noticeably different look. The stripes and interior tweaks just seem unnecessary and make it a bit twee.
As a lad, I dabbled from time to time in the Turin-bullion-robbery game. And I have to tell you this, young man: Nothing handles with two hundredweight of bullion in the boot. Those Minis were an absolute shocker. Once they were full of gold, they didn't accelerate, didn't steer and didn't stop.
I'll say this for the Carbonee... for the Carrabon.... I'll say thos for Italian coppers: They was hard, but they was fair. You always knew where you was with old constable Giancarlo.
In the end, we ditched the Minis for Lancias: Faster, roomier and less conspicuous in an Italian urban setting.
And still FWD, but better with a few bars of gold on the boot.
..Jesus, I keep coming back to this video...that olive green Giulia is soooo beautiful... Man, the Giulia was AND STILL IS such an incredible car.
Those are fun cars...
I would have the Alfa hands down but rust is and always has been the enemy of both cars I think a problem that has never been rectifyed
I had a 1969 1275cc Cooper S loved it! After 1 year took the engine out fitted it with race spec '649' camshaft port and polished cylinder head 1.5 inch SU carbs fitted with proper exhaust headers and straight Abarth exhaust. Absolute blast to drive!
What a fantastic video, so enjoyable to watch. Many thanks.
That’s a lovely looking Alfa , love the colour 👌. There is a guy that lives in our village he drives a red mini Mayfair on a c reg but it has a turbo super bike engine in it!
It really confuses you when you see it drive past and your eyes see a mini but your ears hear a super bike! Great video Jack 👍
Thanks Ryan, that Mini Mayfair sounds awesome!
I was just thinking the 1.4 l from the modern 500 Abarth would probably work really well in a classic Mini.
@@Surestick88 That would be good, I think some people have put Honda Civic 2.0 type R engines in them also…….. bet that would wake you up on a morning 😂
Although I preferred the looks of the Alfa, I bought a Fulvia Coupé after driving both. And I prefer RWD... There's something with the rear suspension of that Alfa I really didn't like.
Would like to see a comparison to a BMW 2002; my first car.
Love a Fulvia!!
There’s not much between the Giulia and the Fulvia - both fabulous cars with masses of history. I’d take the Alfa for what it gives - which is more than just the drive. As an appreciating classic the Fulvia is well worth a place on any petrolhead’s drive.
I will never forget my first go in a mini, it was like a go cart on roundabouts, no brakes just throw it in. Luckily the owner and myself swapped seats just before we got into Swansea at midnight, Nee Naa Nee Naa, blue lights all around. Not this time Mr. Plod
The Mini is one of those cars you can have so much fun and keep your licence. One of my all time favourite cars.
The Giulia used by the carabinieri in the 60s were supercharged. They would have blown the doors off the minis even without the boot full of gold! 😁
No way.no supercharged were ever used in Giulia Super 1600.they were mildly tuned and,later on,Police used the larger 1750 engine
@@claudioperotti9439 giulia super ti
No, my uncle drove Carabinieri's Giulias in 60s and 70s and They werent supercharged. Ti stands for Turismo Internazionale.
@@francis8062 in which country?not in Italy for sure.the only supercharged Giulia were the prototype Giulia GTA SA which was a mess of unreliability.so it's impossible that an engine like that were used for an hard every day use
@@francis8062 I know they weren't all supercharged but I read that some special pursuit cars were.
Unfortunatley, for Country pride, passion and "Sporty Heart" DNA i would stuck with Giulia all the way,
Well Said
I'm from the UK, I've owned various Alfa's 146,155,164 and now a GQV, I've never owned a mini but driven quite a few, I'd rather push my Alfa than own a Mini! fortunately I've never needed to, unlike a few of the Mini's. LOL 😆
@@551moley owned proudly both 155 and 146: they were such undeservingly underrated...
@@MOSSFEEN Apologize for my statement but i'm very biased, having the 11th commandment: thou hath no other car than Alfa Romeo.
Or "Thou shall not..."? However...
@@Matteo-ks6fn I've loved all the Alfa's, my misses had the 146Ti, I had the 155V6 2.5, I bought it with 80k miles, then converted it to LPG and did 100k miles at close to the economy of a Diesel, roughly equivalent to 45mpg cost wise, The 146Ti felt the most lively, she then had a 164Ts, that felt a bit weak by comparison, She's had a Golf GTD for over 10 years and always said it lacked that "va va voom" hence the GQV now, sadly I've been in various Van's since parting with the 155.
I owned and raced Minis for a long time. Still have a 1976 Clubbie with a Honda B16A2 conversion. Also had a 1600 GTV Alfa back in 68/69 - the most comfortable touring car I ever sat in, round town or at speed on country roads. And I got to experience Nuvolari's Ghost in the Alfa, frightening to start with, but fun when understood. But not as fun as a Cooper S.
You'd have to have them both in your garage or forever regret not having the other when the mood took. I have had neither of these exactly. I had a mini 1000, incredible fun, never under powered, and the old fashioned 'over cam head' engine was fine. I also had a couple of later Alfas (Alfetta GTVs) so I get what you were trying to say about the handling and steering, they are lovely beasties. The Alfettas were rear transaxles and de-dion tube whereas the105 series cars are live axles, they would feel similar I think but the lower unsprung weight for the Alfettas may have enabled a more supple ride for no loss of control (I'm guessing).
Probably the mini if it wasn’t lugging around a load of gold bricks in the boot
Brilliant video idea :)
However, I can't avoid pointing out that the Cx of 0.34 often cited for the Giulia saloon was a typing error. The Giulia was pretty slippery for its time, but not so much! 0.43 is closer to the truth.
Very interesting! Thanks for clarification.
However your videos are very good so you may have the facts but I have never seen a figure that high for them
@@shanedusautoy3661 Thank you for your appreciation. My source is an interview of a former Alfa Romeo engineer, Domenico Chirico. Here's the quote, translated from the Italian original using Google: "the Cx was 0.43, today it's funny but at the time it was awesome. Only the Citroen DS and a Porsche were better."
Is legendary here in Italy too, especially in Turin :D The roof track is on FIAT building..
Back in the 70's I was about to buy my neighbour's Cooper S, before sealing the deal, he smashed it side on into a tree (drunk) the front was almost 45 degrees to the rear. He got injured and banned. Game over.
Had something similar happen to me but with a Sunbeam Lotus on a V plate. It was a company car , the guy who drove it had been drinking so a mate of his drove it home and lost it in rain on a double bend when he discovered that flooring the 2.2 twin cam the way he’d floor his 998cc fiesta wasn’t a great idea, he froze and the spinning lotus undressed herself of front panels along with caved in sides . I actually had tears in my eyes when I went to see the wreck. I’ll never own one now 😭
That mini isn't a proper mini it's on thirteen in wheels .. and the 2:7 diff let's it down . A true comparison would be a mk 2 mini Cooper
That would have been preferable but this isn’t supposed to be a forensic comparison, rather a bit of fun. I’m not in a position to be able to pick exactly the.cars I want for videos.. have to make do with what I can get hold of! Thanks for watching!
@@Number27 dont get me wrong, it was still a top comparison so keep up the good work Jack,
Loved the video but a Mini with hydrolastic suspension would handle much better and less 'bumpy'
A 1990 RSP Cooper that came on 12 inch wheels with a 3.44 diff as standard is the most fun you can have on four wheels! Exhilarating even at low speeds!
My reading suggested it was mk1 Coopers in the film - not that we should be pedantic because it’s all a bit of fun.
Great flashback - minis rusted too unfortunately but hey that Giulia is way more sophisticated but the Mini was so advanced for its class comparison difficult as both have their pros and cons but both huge fun 👍
Definitely, thanks Malcolm!!
My personal automotive "wet dream" would be having both of those cars.
Jack, my first car in 1984 was an eight-year-old Mini GTS, which was unique to South Africa and Leyland SA's answer to the Cooper S which, for whatever reason, we didn't receive here. It was based on the 1275E, so had that shape. With twin carbs and a banana-branch exhaust, it was actually more potent than the Cooper S. Properly quick and I used to out-drag many a more powerful car in the mid-80s, and of course she was a real go-kart in the twisties! She looked sensational too in a kinda sapphire blue with silver GT stripes down the sides and across the bonnet - I absolutely adored that little car and was only thinking yesterday how I'd love to get one again someday... Thanks for a wonderful channel mate, one of my favourites!✌🏼
Thanks buddy.. interesting to know about the SA version!!
@@Number27 it would be so cool if, one day, you can do a video on classics, like the Mini GTS, unique to South Africa - the Ford-approved Basil Green Capri Perana, BMW 745i (with the M1 engine), Alfa GTV 3.0, Ford Sierra XR8, BMW 333i and 325iS, Kadett GSi 16V SuperBoss, to name a few - at times we had to make do, and most times, did better! Hey, make a holiday out of it!
Gets out of a 21 year old mini into a 49 year old Alfa, says Alfa feels like a much older car😂.
Standard 60’s Cooper 0-60 in 19 secs add 1/4 ton of gold in the boot you’ll be lucky to get it to drive out of the garage.
Don’t forget though that the minis in the Italian job were specials with rear wheel drive with a specially reinforced boot . Being two modifications mentioned in the film.
Have on good authority that instead of replacing the minis crashed on practice, they were rebuilt onto a cut and shut lotus cortina floor pan!
This is the problem I have with this vid. There's no like-for-like comparison. I own newer Alfas and love'em. I've also owned a 1275 GT 1977 Mini - both give smiles per mile.
I had both. The Alfa was about 20 years ahead in terms of everything. That mini you are driving is not period correct.
that´s my point
@Uncle Gilbert lets talk about the new Rover instead ,what?what about triumph? what ?did germans bought and destroyd such good english brands? jaguar to. oh, theres nothig to say
The first all Mini race was held at Brands Hatch shortly after the car was first shown at the London Motor Show in 59. Top saloon drivers were invited along with a sprinkling of F1 drivers to take part. The cars were the basic 750 unit as John Cooper had yet to get his hands on one and they were on standard road tyres. The grid was decided on numbers being picked out of a hat so no one had the advantage of getting around the circuit for a practice session although I think some of the F1 drivers managed to entice dealers into giving them a test drive on normal roads.
The cars were lined up for the start and Graham Hill was seen out of his car and talking to each driver in turn through the grid much to the consternation of the starter and the BBC TV commentator. He finally returned to his car and started up, the starter raised the Union Flag (no lights in those days!), the engines revved and the flag dropped.
Immediately every car REVERSED about 5 yards! They all stopped, selected 1st and the race was on!
Needless to say no quarter was given, bodywork was bashed, a few wheels fell off and I believe one was rolled onto its roof. I hate to think how much this promotional race cost Austin/Morris but the world fell on love with the little rollerskate!
Great to see those 50s/60s icons and to get your personal feel with them. There must be something about Alfa’s of this era. Did bring my purist Austin Mini 1000 City E from UK to Germany and started to conserve/restore it for the future. Even my 42hp version is so much fun on b-roads and riding it in the city. Even kids realise there is something special about it...nothing comparable out there.
I’ve got a tip from a friend: you should try Citroen GS or BX, he just adores them so much
Thanks Patrick, I definitely need to try a Bx!!
“Get the wheels in line….”
I miss my sports pack..😢
Then put your brakes on or we'll be in the cab
Put yer foot daan, you’ll lose ‘em easy!!!
I could eat a horse, hahaha
No way the mini can outrun the Alfa. That Alfa engine and exhaust sounds gorgeous.
The first time I ever saw The Italian Job in the ‘60s we drove to the cinema in my dad’s 1965 970 Austin Cooper S. The family car was a 1967 Alfa Romeo Giulia Super, HWV 933E. I was hooked. The Giulia Super was a fantastic car and we went across Europe in it including a 5000 mile round trip to southern Greece. Our car’s previous owner was the ex racing driver then garage owner Rob Walker. It was white with his trademark dark blue roof. I’ve still got my Corgi model painted in those colours. Both dad and I had AlfaSuds later on and they too were fantastic cars. The 970S was an interesting homologation special but I never really got into minis.
I've owned Lamborghinis and fast Porsches, but the most fun i have had is in classic stock minis.
I learnt to drive on a mini, however, the thing for me i never jelled with it. To me it felt cheap and just nothing special. On the other hand although i had a bunch of classic Fiats and still own my ‘69 AC 124 sport which is special, having owned 5 105 series Alfa’s, 1750 GTV, Berlina and 3 Giulia’s (still have my latest Giulia), plus have driven plenty of 105s over the years, to me they are in such a different league to the mini, in the way it looks, feels to drive and the fun factor. I am
glad i only paid $6500 for my current Giulia as i know how much they have appreciated over the past few years, just as GTVs and spiders have. The Giulia is such a cool car.
You couldn’t have picked a worse mini, sport pack on 13’s don’t handle and with the 2.7 diff they can’t get out of their own way, should have picked a 10” wheeled S
There aren't too many genuine Cooper S Minis knocking about anymore, and even less who are actually driven. They're all mostly rich boy toys that never get used now.
Not sure how you expect Jack to just manifest someone with a Cooper S to just give him the keys to one.
@@MrManBuzz plenty of people have built replicas, just like myself
Both these cars are great icons! You should also review a Lancia Fulvia HF Fanalone sometime…
The childish side of me is still waiting for a Top Gear/The Grand Tour good old-fashioned drag race
A Giulia Super with some Alfaholics parts could be a great replacement for your GTA. I don't think your Alfa engine had the duel Webers, which would have been a better option and a more balanced competition to the Mini. It is hard to compensated for the Mini's low weight unless you play with the Alfa's horsepower...but you have much much more fun driving it.
Giulia has dual Webers
The mighty Mini, best car ever made.
The Mini won the Monte Carlo 4 years in a row but was disqualified in 66 I think due to a headlight technicality
I LOVE the Italian Job! I watch it every time it comes on, I bet 75 times now.
Jack, before I watch.....The Minis in 1969 were pictured as 1275mkIII, they were, actually (when running) mkIIs with the 1071 engine (my favorite setup). I don't care which is quicker in a straight line, twisty a sorted Mini will beat anything up to Focus ST (or equivalent 2wd spec). I've owned Alfa and Mini. I choose Mini!
Interesting to hear that,, Thanks for watching Will!
Focus ST? My Alfa 147 1.6 out turns those, well it out turns everything that runs up at me in the bends, most underrated car going the 147, I call it the MX-5 slayer.
Has to be the Alfa all day, every day. It’s a thing of beauty and the engineering is sublime. The Mini is pretty horrid in comparison.
Makes me cry a bit when people use a post 1986 mini to substitute for a pre 1972 example. They just got less and less beautiful through that period (headrests stopped the seats tilting far enough to get in the back, loss of the central dial, wheels too big, sport pack that slowed the car down...)
During lockdown 1 & 2, I rebuilt my 1400cc Oselli powered 1981 Minivan, looks completely standard outside, with uprated everything, fairly big cam, goes like stink, far quicker than I am brave enough to drive. Its a bastard to drive, no power steering (of course), but I love it. A well tuned Giulia would be quicker on the straight, but the mini would keep up on windy roads.