The Tattooed Mormon: Al Fox
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- "Judge not, that ye be not judged." You've likely heard that scripture in the book of Matthew, but actually living it can be a different story. We learn a poignant lesson from a young woman who has on occasion been "judged by her cover". Meet Al Fox, a woman has come to be known as "The Tattooed Mormon".
Nice story of one humble soul turning to the Lord, there is so much that all members could learn from this lady. That is what God wants and not the hypocrisy that we see so much among religious people.
DM MD HA
1) i don't know why you assume i don't know what i am talking about; i have been a member all my life, most of which were 150% dedicated to callings, mission service and a temple marriage. i've read the BoM 8 times in my lifetime.
2) i never used the words "homophobic", i spoke of "equality", which gays and women get neither in the church. i know the rhetoric of how women are "eqaul" but they in fact are not.
[cont...]
I'm definitely not a spokesperson but I can help answer your question. The underwear are called garments. I'm not entirely sure of there purpose (I haven't been through the temple) but you always wear them (except swimming etc.) and you don't want to show them so it keeps you modest. (They're like a lightweight mesh t-shirt and some shorts). The baptisms for the dead are done by living in place of the dead person. They
beautiful girl I am proud of you!!!
[...cont.] furthermore, we dragged our feet until the bitter end with blacks and the priesthood only to land with the inevitable: to let them be equal, and all we had to do (apparantly) was ask. we should have been spearheading black equality but instead we dragged our feet until we were forced to ask for the revelation. wonder how many other crises of faith we could avert if we just asked in the first place.
I believe the LDS church has a very clear stance on gays.
There's a little bit of gay in all of us. 🧡💛💙❤💚💜
This is a wonderful and lovely testimony. This is a great story and her courage is evident. Al Fox is a lovely person.
Inspiring. Not a lot of those who have been members all of their lives understand, how frustrating and difficult it is to be the only convert in your family.
wait you said it frustrating and difficult because she is only convert LOL WHY did you say that?
Colin Henderson Read the history.
That's a little presumptuous, Colin. .. If you've been through a friends conversion, you know what it feels like to relearn life.
I understand and totally agree Colin. I'm the only member in my family and from a totally different culture. It's frustrating to have to explain your decision, and it's hard when a lot of people in church can't relate to some of your life experiences. I was judged a lot in the beginning and almost left the church. 10 years in and I'm glad I remained. There are still a lot of things I don't understand but I'll keep holding on. Super excited to be marrying my awesome fiance who I met at church in a few months!
Congrats on the wedding and sticking and standing by your faith is so awesome..Im also a recent convert and recently baptized, confirmed, recieved priesthood...tough conversion but hearing your story really helped...congrats on everything
I wonder is you are still active - you know, after all the love bombing subsided and the judgement and control set in......
I don't have any tattoos, but my prayers were answered the same way. Ditto for my brother, sister and mother. Not so much with my dad, but he was baptized. I had a bad experience with evil spirits on my mission and it scared the living daylights out of me. When you experience both, you can certainly tell the difference. Don't mind the idiots, keep your eye on the prize and don't lose your spunk! It's all true.
I'm brown and I have always been judged by Mormons
Al, you are such a HUGE inspiration to me. I want me faith to be as big as yours. Not trying to be rude to all of the"haters" or anything but please keep your comments to yourselves. I understand that you have the freedom of speech, (if you live in America at least)but please it might bring people down. It's ok if you don't believe in god. That's your opinion. But please don't say rude or hurtful things. Thank you. I really hope you understand.😊
I love her testimony and excitement. Some people are just meant to be Mormons, like her I'm one of those people. The church is truly amazing when you are connected to the spirit of Jesus Christ. Its teaching and everything around you fall into place when that bond and partnership is made with Jesus Christ. I love being a part of the restore gospel of Jesus Christ.
Wow, as a black man I'm surprised because the Mormons discriminated against black people and did until the NAACP threatened to sue, then suddenly the profit got the 'word' blacks are equal but different...gee whiz. Then and only then did they allow black people to hold office. But until then we were taught that black people were fence sitters and cursed. I'm amazed you would even play into their hands and actually give them money to continue the hate. But it's your choice....sheeple.
Lisa Babcock You are a confused, lost soul. Unfortunately some of us are never meant to see our Heavenly Father again. This life is the time to make that happen. I am a tattooed, multiple offense, EX-badman. I found the gospel of Jesus Christ 3 years ago, when I was looking at 25 years in prison. I gave myself to him and his church completely and was forgiven of my trespasses. I served NO TIME and was cleared of all charges. He is a forgiving and Merciful God. I have NEVER been judged by anyone in the Mormon Church. When I was having my tattoo's lasered off I was told it didn't matter. They loved me no matter HOW I looked. I never cried or cared for my fellow man until I was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Now it breaks my heart to see so many lost brothers and sisters in this country. You have it soooo easy. We have members that WALK 4 days one way in AFRICA to hear the word of GOD on Sunday.
Robert Metcalf, I am not confused, I know exactly what I'm doing and thinking, and I'm certainly NOT a lost soul. You are the confused one in this matter. I've been a member of the Mormon church over 40 years, studied it, and have family members that are high ranking members, so I DO know what I'm talking about. Joseph Smith was jailed for being a fraud, and he admitted it, look it up! Not in church documents that have been doctored, but look in history books and the true documents. Mormons have a brutal and terrible history as do most religions. If you think they don't judge you, that tells me how much you don't know about the church. Smile in your fact kind of people. I was also in foster care in the church and lived in many homes of Mormons and was also abused by my so called foster parents. This is also documented.
But Robert, if this keeps you on the straight and narrow and keeps you from committing anymore crimes, I say bully for you and keep it up. That is the reason religions were thought up to keep certain people in order.
I am what is known in the world as a freethinker. We don't allow fairy tales to rule our world, we don't believe in the special friend in the sky that knows every hair on your head, and watches everything you do (creepy).
Don't worry about me my dear, worry about yourself. I've never been arrested, I volunteer many hours a week to the homeless and food banks, I'm very much loved by all those around me I'm a grandmother to 7 and I have a wonderful full life. I've entertained thousands throughout my career as a circus clown, and am very satisfied with my time here on earth. So I wish you a good life and hope you are happy with your new born again life.
A very happy Jack Mormon!
Lisa Babcock There are NO high ranking members......
Lisa Babcock If you are so happy and content with your life, why are you looking into the LDS church, watching a related video, and taking time arguing with everyone about it????????
What a lovely lady! No matter what church, or what tattoo, Jesus Christ taught us to treat everyone with love and respect. I love how she doesn't put others down, or let others put her down, either. Even in the face of criticism, she smiles and keeps moving forward in what she knows is right. All of us, regardless of our spirituality, can learn from her.
I am not a Mormon. But I just teared up watching and listening to her story.
How Coincidental. I also was born in New York (1953). I was brought up Mormon, but decided to leave for very good doctrinal reasons. You were also born in New York, and you were not brought up Mormon, but decided to join. Interesting how people can come to vastly different conclusions based on presumably the same evidence. But I find that God is still there, the purpose for life is still there, the afterlife is still there, even though there is no need to adhere to any systematized worship system. Tell me Al, why have you turned comments off on your videos? It would be really interesting to engage in discussions. BTW, nice tattoos.
She's an inspiration.. I've been a member since birth.. My GG Grandfather was in the first pioneer group that went into the Salt Lake Valley.. I've not lived my religion in years.. still don't but she's made me stop and think... thank you Miss Fox..
David...try...no one is asking you to be perfect or live a lie, ie going to church but having weaknesses. I left the church for 24 years but I am back now. I do the best I can, I have my problems, if anyone judges you remember that God does truly know you and loves you even, and especially in your weaknesses. If you need more remember that I love you and I am rooting for you too..:) I hope you read this and have a great day. There are several return missionaries, senior and younger missionaries I know in the Salt Lake valley, I could put you in touch with them if you want good people who won't judge you. E-mail me @ dr.mikeguiglotto@gmail.com if you want.
michael guiglotto Thank you so much.. I have local missionaries who stop by my sculpting studio... all the time. Great gentlemen.. I'm doing great.. and keep improving.. that's all any of us can do. I suggest you edit your comment though and delete your email.. or you'll be getting a lot of bothersome emails.. lol
David Lemon,
Hi!! I hope you are doing well. I don't know if this will help you, but I'm a convert to the church. I just started a RUclips channel to share my story with my family. You are welcome to come and watch my videos. Good luck to you and God Bless!! ❤❤❤
"Let your light so shine!"
I have a couple of small and hidden tattoos and was LDS when I got them and am still LDS and have a testimony of the Gospel. I have to say that I'm relieved to see Al Fox as a representative of the LDS church because I've felt looked down upon at times because I got tattoos. I think the concern has more to do with how the world and other Christians view tattoos more than anything. However, I honestly feel like it shouldn't be focused on in general.
Al, you're such an inspiration!
I am also a Mormon with tattoos, so happy to have seen this :)
MS-13 tattoos on face seem to be discouraged though
@@drjeffriessaysldsisatheolo7366 dude your past doesn't dictate your relationship with the Father. Why let others Influence your life?
@@timothyfloogle I think this is the correct approach. I do not know any Latter-day Saints who received tattoos after joining the Church. Those who find the Church after receiving their tattoos can have them removed, or just get on with their lives. I had my own removed, but that is an expensive proposition. Anyway, it is much better to receive the tattooed member into fellowship than to make them feel somehow unworthy. Besides, the tattoos will be gone in the resurrection.
But you're also a heretic named after an occult symbol. So there's that.
@@bashpr0mpt244 Of course, that is just your opinion...
she was in my high school class
why does she have tattoo
Her testimony of her conversion is very similar to my own. I love this video !
I'm a recent convert, just this past summer. I can definitely relate.
What a cute story good on Al Fox and the mormon missionaries who helped her out when she was looking for something in her life.
lmao I think you just like to hear yourself talk. I bet you reread all your posts and gloat over them. I'm not sure how you deemed my post as useless drivel; I made a statement which IMHO is quite accurate. You spout off what you've come to decide is pretty damn great and can't see past it. I believe you've been called out a few times as having not studied anything outside standard LDS works, yet no answer. So--what have you studied outside Correlated doctrines and manuals?
I know the book of mormon is a testament of our Savior Jesus christ and he is at the head of this church. I know he hears our prayers and love each of us very VERY MUCH! I will never ever forget the price he paid for me. I will always be indebted to him for his ultimate sacrifice.
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
(New Testament | 1 John 4:11)
wow, how the hell you came to that conclusion is beyond me. we were discussing two separate issues. in one, you claimed that you can discern the difference between the "real Spirit" and that of the "imitation", or that of the devil. i asked: how can you possibly be able to discern the two when Joseph Smith himself couldn't even always discern? you are so certain that the spirit has testified to your heart but the bottom line is: EVERYONE feels the same way you do about their own conviction
Sven,
God is the Same yesterday, today and forever! in the old testement Homosexuality was an obination unto god, it was the same in the new testament, and it is still today. Do you honestly think that just because some very messed up people enjoy doing filthy things that we can go to God and say look dude, it is time to change! Who are we to tell god he has to change! He wrote the rules, and it is our JOB to obey them.
Solomon didn't take the wives of other men, nor did he send men out on missions and then marry those men's wives.
Additionally, Joseph didn't support his wives temporally. He left that to their husbands and families.
See the difference?
And no, I don't think Joseph's actions were anything but adultery.
And no, I don't think it's OK that the church hides this part of its history.
"I've felt looked down upon at times because I got tattoos"
Exactly. The Church has come out specifically against tattoos and multiple piercings & those with them are judged because their appearance is proof positive of disobedience in the LDS context. I knew a tattoo artist w/ full sleeves who joined the Church & always felt judged. In 100 degree weather he'd wear long sleeves shirts to avoid it. My Dad had a tattoo from the Navy and was once told in the 60s it would keep him from the temple.
For all are sons and daughters unto God....John 3/16
As I said before. Ignore the ignorant and uneducated. There will always be naysayers and disbelievers. They are a dime a dozen, and their comments are worth exactly what you pay for them.
Psuedo educated *
Great to meet you Al. What a wonderful testimony and conversion story. God is real. He does bless those who are honest in heart. God bless.
finally, something from you that's concrete: you've received your confirmation and i've chosen a different path. if you look back, the only thing i was responding to was your words of certainty that your religion is the "right" religion, or the "true" religion and that it is all-encompassing "truth". there is no Truth with a capital T, the only thing that is true is what you have come to believe in your heart, and that is for you. that does not make the Church "true" for everyone else.
This is a wonderful encounter with the Lord :)
I think God loves us so much that He does not waste an opportunity to give his love.
In human terms that might be attached to something like a book which contains truth from the Bible, but which also says things opposite to what the Bible has declared since the beginning.
People, please just read the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Nothing else. This is all you need in Life. Anything that says something opposite to that is not true.
What a sweetheart. Bless her. Oh, for the day when people are not judged outwardly, but by their works. I believe Al will be an ambassador for the LDS Church in a big way. :)
God I hope not, forget about the tattoos, she is just way over the top obnoxious - deep down you know I speak the truth, who could really handle be around all of that for more than 10 minutes.....I think it is about time we all face some facts: We are members of a pretty whacked-out religion that is run by a bunch of homophobic old men who are so afraid of being criticized that they sign off on excommunicating someone who is trying to end the practice of Bishops asking children sexual questions. Things are so bad that we gravitate towards someone like this because we hope it will let others see us as being more mainstream. The truth is, the entire deal is a house of cards. Hardly anyone who is active actually believes in any of this lunacy, yet they go through the motions out of fear of the potential consequences.....
I had a bishop with a entire back tattoo several years ago. He was a convert as well, really cool gentleman.
This girl rocks! The church Is true whether we want it to be or not.
she has pretty tattoos...and is beautiful, fun and articulate...nothing would be a better advertisement than her,
Thank you for sharing your conversion story. Through watching this, I could feel your testimony of our Father in Heaven
People living in Cedar City Utah INCLUDING NON-MORMONS Need to Watch This Video, As They Have A Problem Of Judging People By Their Cover >:( Look Up My Young Adult Daughter, & How She Has OVERCOME Her Problems & Has AS GREAT A TESTIMONY As Any In General Conference I Have Ever Heard :D
Seems like she didn't come to Jesus out of repentance , she came for the good it would do her social life ( Humanism )
She made a "Beautiful" decision that only SHE can make!
This lady is socially inadequate.
The church is false. And she left the church l.
I found Al a few years ago and read about her story. .and I truly see God shining through her. What an Inspiring young woman.
If they don't like us or our religion, why do they spend so much of their time here??? Must not have anything better to do with their lives.
What makes you think we spend 'so much' time here?
ixlnxs hahahahahahaha. There are always stupid negative comments from tons of people like you. All you want to do is either find falseness in the church and it's doctrine or just to be annoying and don't you deny it! Serious...
rick bachman. Because u send missionaries to people's doors to size up and shame women, AND I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE!
Maybe it is because there is just so much to bust chops over.....I mean come on, quit taking yourself so seriously, we are part of a religion that is getting ready to excommunicate someone because they were vocal about the need for Bishop's to stop asking sex related question of children.....I am a member, active, and have a temple recommend - but things are really bad with the Church these days - perhaps we all could stand a little critiquing.
Because I'm not a convert and they didn't seek me out I can't hold certain callings because I have a clean well groomed beard and tattoos. I've been faithful my whole life, served an honorable mission, paid tithing and fast offerings without fault. Why am I being judged. I'm about to walk away from this and no one even cares. I told my Bishop how I felt and he suddenly stopped talking to me to the point of completely avoiding eye contact with me making for a really awkward situation. I feel like I'm diseased and yet he still talks about the atonement and forgiveness. What did I do wrong to deserve this? This has been my whole life in every decision I ever made and now I'm being ignored like I'm dirty. This lady is made as a hero because she has tattoos and was a convert.
I'm hoping you've stayed in the church, Jeffery, and you've talked to your bishop, but even if you haven't you're always welcome to continue to chat with me. I pray the Lord gives you peace and continues to call you home to Him.
Jeffery Hall Jeffrey,
You know that certain callings in the church such as working in the temple require that you not have a beard. If you have a medical condition then.with a doctors excuse you can. As for the tattoo's situation, we all wear white long-sleeved shirt when we bless or pass the Sacrament and can have beards.
Your comment about her "being a hero.in the church because of her tattoos" sounds like your envious of the attention she's garnering and you think you are not.
Don't feed these religious bigots the spoiled food they desire.
I've been a member.of the church for 45 years and have known many many members who made the choice to tattoo their bodies and serve faithfully in the church without discrimination or being held back from callings. The Lord has a dress code so that we honor Him inside and outside of the Temple and chapel. As you and I honor that I testify that we will be blessed for it.
May God bless you in your continued journey on your covenant path.
@@stevebond727200 well said , I really wanted to hear is because I’m a member and I’m all tattooed up , I was going to leave the church but after reading your comment I feel good
Here's a question...is she better off now that she wears clothes like a conservative republican woman? Why not come on the show in t-shirt and jeans? Why? Because maybe she'd still be judged. How far does this go folks?
I love her story, I am glad she found happiness.
You are awesome! Keep the Faith and keep going. I find it ironic that you find this amazing truth and then your so called friends want nothing to do with it. I love your strength
They are done for non Mormon family, distant relatives, or anyone. They are basically baptized so that they can choose to accept the gospel if they want to in heaven. Hope that helps :)
This wonderful young woman changed my life 3 years ago when my great aunt showed me this video. After I watched the restoration DVD, I was like holy cow, this had answered my questions about God still speaking to us! But then I looked at all my tattoos and I said "Aunt Carol how could I ever be accepted in the LDS community, I have 16 tattoos!" She smiled kindly and said "So does this young woman. You are still a daughter of Heavenly Father." I was recently baptized this year as well! It was so wonderful for her to share her testimony for those of us out there who believe but who also have tattoos. She was meant to be who she was to inspire those people that they too, can be baptized, loved and accepted by the Latter-Day Saint family!
That’s awesome!!!! I’m so proud of you!
I had similar experience with Mormon Sisters in Kirtland, Ohio. It was completely unexpected, and a miracle to me. When the Holy Spirit talked to me it was completely compelling. Chin up Sister Fox, I am Muslim and they took me, and, I stilll wear Hijab and am absolutely Mormon and Heavenly Father loves me. Alhumduallah !!!
It has been 6 years since I met the sisters in Kirtland. I experienced great healing with the Mormons. It's over with them now. It breaks my heart that the sisters worked so hard to get me to join the church, but the General Authority works very hard to get rid of us. The way they violate the provisions of the Atonement finally just broke me. I'll never be good enough for them, but I'm pretty sure that God accepts me.
You're not alone. Don't be surprised if in a few years you learn that Al Fox has left the LDS church. Mormon celebrities have left before.
Khadijah Brown that is amazing! I served as a sister missionary in Kirtland Visitor's Center!
I was there in March, April and May of 2011. I loved the church but the nonsense that the GA does with people like me just hurt too much. I've effectively left now and it is heartbreaking. They ignore what the Bible says about people like me in Matt 19:12 and Isaiah 56:4-5, making some of the most lame excuses imaginable. They even said that the Book of Mormon preempted the Bible. I looked and the JS version of the Bible did not touch the parts of the Bible I am referring to. If you are genetically normal, they will never bother you. I hope that you have a good life with them.
M. Russell Nelson is a physician and should understand these things. But I guess he is too busy helping to hold up the statue quo, for the sake of Mormon money.
Recently a Mormon "celebrity", Nikki Yaste, resigned from the LDS church. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if some day Al Fox gets disillusioned and leaves, too. Right now she's too busy enjoying her celebrity status in the church.
Myself, I have been reading the Bible a great deal, in translations much more up-to-date than the 1611 King James. I have learned that it is far superior to the Book of Mormon. Also much greater than the D&C and the PoGP.
Inspiring, beautiful woman!
Come to New Zealand where Tattooes are part of the New Zealand Maori culture. Sometimes how we judge ourselves is more detrimaental to our spirit than how others may judge us.
" But you can't cherry pick, either you accept the whole, or discard the whole." -- it's statements like this that cause me to question whether you have ever studied anything outside the standard works and approved manuals of the church. the brethren don't agree with you, sorry to say. counsel is slowly shifting towards cherry-picking, as long as you stayLDS*com.
there indeed are more inspiring books in the world, you just have to pick them up and read them.
you misunderstand my requirement of fact and proof. actually i thrive on the unknown; questions that have no answers. i love philosophy and theories and speculation. i love wonder. the church makes a bold claim to have the only "true church" and you can't make that claim without backing it up, so i challenge those who condemn the rest of the world (ref. Alma 4:6-14) because they can't seem to get on board a ship full of holes that have been plugged with cloth.
[...cont]
"...Joseph did not know how it was, so he enquired of the Lord about it, and behold the following revelation came through the stone: 'Some revelations are of God: some revelations are of men: and some revelations are of the devil.' So we see that the revelation to go to Toronto and sell the copyright was not of God, but was of the devil or of the heart of man."
those are David Whitmer's words, not mine. there is no second-hand witness, nor did i make any of the above statements.
furthermore, you say "Joseph got one wrong" but don't accept it as such is your perogative. it doesn't change the fact that Joseph admitted he had a revelation he thought was from God but actually was of the devil. that says something about the elusiveness of the Spirit, and imho you are just as succeptible. that's my whole point, that YOU feel the spirit the way that speaks to your soul no differently (or very diff.) than someone else feels the Spirit in the way that speaks to THEIR soul.
second, you said that God works in his own time, not on man's "stop-watch". this is not true, both in the issue of blacks and the priesthood and polygamy. within polygamy, we see God's "commandment" being rejected by the body of the church--"they weren't ready" for the commandment. either way, God's will did not prevail for over a decade.
in the issue of the blacks: God's policy eventually changed--how? by the world ASKING. revelation doesn't seem to always come in "God's time".
also, you kinda sidestepped my response to your (to paraphrase) God does things in HIS time, not by our stop-watch.
let me refresh your memory:
then why was polygamy, which was God's "guidance" rejected by the body of the church for over a decade (even though the Inner Circle was doing it anyway)? clearly it was not by God's stopwatch--if it was God's will it should have been commanded openly regardless of what the church "thought".
your rhetoric rationale almost doesn't dignify a response. God is not the same now as he was yesterday--tell me the God of the OT is the same God as the NT? hellfire, vengeance and damnation vs. love, kindness and forgiveness? come one man. even the doctrines of the church have changed immensely-- the LDS church today isn't even the same church Joseph set up. rethink your stinkin' thinkin', boss.
oh? then why was polygamy, which was God's "guidance" rejected by the body of the church for over a decade (even though the Inner Circle was doing it anyway)? clearly it was not by God's stopwatch--if it was God's will it should have been commanded openly regardless of what the church "thought".
as far as "personal revelation" goes, i think you need to reflect upon the notion that personal revelation is relative, not difinitive, which is what terms you and the church think in.
oh please. my point is the only thing you have telling you that being gay is a "sin" is your cultural upbringing which is based on closed-minded dogma that most likely is misinterpreted in the first place. when i asked for scriptural reference it was somewhat rhetorical because what you would present as "scripture" most likely isn't even what original context intended, let alone what God intended. Have you had a personal revelation that being gay is against God's will?
again, you just made my point--just because it's true for YOU does not mean it's true for everyone. it is true to YOU because of the way it makes you feel, but it is still not "TRUTH" it is your BELIEF. you believe that anyone can know it's "true" simply by getting a burning in the bosom--i agree with you, though i also argue that you can apply the same test with ANYTHING. feelings do not mean truth, they mean faith and belief. Truth must be have facts to back it up, otherwise it's not truth
you do realize that with this rationale you just supported what i'm saying. your belief is YOUR BELIEF, not truth, and there is no way to say it's truth. not that your analogy really is significant. but if you want to go that line of thinking, you just made my point. i never said JS was a fraud, first off, and second history is NOT my bias. it is fact there are 4 different versions of the first vision--i didn't make up the 4 accounts, JS did.
[...cont] now apply that to an atheist setting... and atheist approaches a disenchanted member of the church or Christian, someone having doubts about Christ. the atheist can relate and empathize and encourage that God is not the answer, but science is. this seems to make sense to the faith-broken, it resounds with his soul (feels the "Spirit") and the atheist then tells him that is his conscience telling him it's true. the testimony has been gained in the same way, just a different outcome.
[...cont] now apply that to an atheist setting... and atheist approaches a disenchanted member of the church or Christian, someone having doubts about Christ. the atheist can relate and empathize and encourage that God is not the answer, but science is. this seems to make sense to the faith-broken, it resounds with his soul (feels the "Spirit") and the atheist then tells him that is his conscience telling him it's true. the testimony has been gained in the same way, just a different outcome.
[...cont] let me demonstrate my point: i as missionary went out into the field. the only people i talked to were those SEARCHING for something, so already these people NEEDED something. i bring them something new and fresh. they have a spiritual experience in which i then identify the "Spirit" and that "Spirit" is telling them that what i say is true. i've done nothing more than attach a biased label to a spiritual experience to an open mind who is searching for something new.
faith is not all that matters, otherwise anyone else having "faith" in any cause is justified, and you and i both know that can be both rewarding and very dangerous. you say that if you want to find doubt, you'll find it--i say the same is true about finding "truth" through faith. if you look for the numbers, codes, ciphers, facts... you'll find it. you can justify your "knowledge" with a feeling of faith, but it is not knowledge, it is merely belief and strong conviction.
well, no clearer than the fact that God the Father and Jesus actually DID NOT visit Joseph in the first vision--that was only in the final revised edition many many years later. read the actual original accounts of the First Vision and you'll see it was not clear at all who came to visit him. you are happy with his vision because it is refined into a picture perfect event. but didn't actually happen the way it officially got written down. there is more confusion than truth in that actual event
"...as long as they stay abstinent." so i suppose you think that sexuality is not a major part of a loving relationship? stay abstinent? how would youfeel if you were told you could have all of God's blessings as long as you never could get married, have a loving sexual relationship and a family together with the person you loved? it's ridiculous and deep down you know it. Gays have NO solution or opportunity to have many of the wonderful things of God's plan--abstinence or misery.
only for tribal reasons. At first I thought he was pulling my leg but he told to google seach, "skin deep" from the 1986 and 2001 new era magazines. So I checked it up online and sure enough in both of those issues talks but how it's appropriate in that part of the world to have tribal tattoos b/c it's for leadership and tradition, while in North America people get tattoos b/c it's a fad thing to do and it comes and goes. So what happens if say one hundred years for now and tattoos do
This is something I don't get about the LDS church about the principle on tattoos. I grew up mormon in Utah my whole life and went to church almost every week. When I was in young men's my church leaders used to slam us all the time about the word of wisdom and the law of chastity. Something that they did stressed was tattoos and seriously frowned upon b/c it's worldly and God would not like it. So a few months ago somebody told me that the Pacific Islanders are allowed to have tattoos but
[...cont] not to mention the church had a "clear stance" on polygamy--that it was NOT policy or doctrine yet Joseph, Heber C and the inner circle were all practicing it anyway, unbeknownst to the rest of the world and church. Smith and the inner circle were all practicing it at the time of the release of the article on Marriage officially denouncing polygamy and was then ex-communicated for it because joseph really WAS practicing it.
"very clear", well now, that can certainly be debated, but that's beside the point anyway. the point is, the church's "stance" on blacks was quite clear, as well if you would do some history research on words from Brigham Young, J. Fielding Smith and others. they were quite "clear" that blacks would "never" hold the priesthood, but here they are with no restrictions. Mark my words, the church will change; they will have to, just like they had to with blacks.
what scholarly support do you have that the "first five books" of the OT aren't incorrectly translated, anyway? you can't use any of the modern translations OR KJV to support your claim, as they are 1) grossly mistranslated 2) translated and arranged so as to support the dogma of Christianity, specifically that of the Catholic church, which if you examine history on the early church knows THAT can't be trusted. aside from that, there is no strong passage explicitly stating SS marriage can't be.
but.... you didn't present it. all you did was paraphrase the "first 5 books" of the bible (which says nothing about gays, marriage being between man and woman only, etc.), and besides that you are using not only filtered mentality and rationale but you are using a book that has completely been obliterated on actual meaning, if there is any literal meaning. point me to evidence that specifically states that marriage CAN'T be between same sex genders in God's eyes.
more from J. Fielding: "Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race"
B. Young: ""Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so" (Journal of Discourses, 10:110)"
sure sounds like it was a sin to be black to me.
From Joseph Fielding Smith: "there is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient; more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less" (Doctrines of Salvation 1:61)"
whoa, hold the phone--blacks were never have considered to have sinned?? clearly you have not read the words of your olden-day prophets such as Joseph F Smith and Brigham Young, among others. they made it very clear that blacks were inferior, less faithful in the pre-existence and that it was an abhorrance to mix with them.
as far as homosexuality being a sin, can you show me a solid scripture detailing this? take into consideration the mistranslation of the Bible, too.
[...cont]
as far as being gay being a "sin" can you lead me to one strong evidence where God says this? considering the deconstruction Christianity (and i mean all of it) has done to changing and mistranslating the Bible, even the couple of verses that ALLUDE to it are far from strong.
mark my words, gays and marriage will change the same way blacks and priesthood did--inevitably through a "revelation" when the church is forced to anyway. why not be ahead and just ask God?
I'm a lds woman in the church w/ same gender attractions, I believe I fit the bill completely of who you assume & call unequal in the LDS church, but I feel completely loved & equal to men in the church. This church speaks of our boundless equality & if you all spent more time in studying it instead of picking at it you would know that. We're not homophobic we're sin-phobic sex outside of marriage is wrong. We follow God, I follow God. Ask & ye shall receive God's truth mormonsandgays. org :)
JS should've gotten his answers while reading his Bible... that's how God communicates with us... anything that contradicts His WORD, is not from Him... the very fact that JS claimed to see both Father &Son makes passages such as Deut6:4, Isa44:6&8, 45:5&6, John1:18 etc, etc, seem untrustworthy... It's imperative to know that we CAN trust God's Word... BTW, there are several different versions of WHO appeared when he asked those questions... (doesn't sound very trustworthy or reliable to me)...
So that we could come to know God on a more intimate level, God took on our human nature via Mary, so yes, that nature prayed to His higher divine nature, His Soul, called the Father (also, as example for US, to always turn to the Lord in our own times of trial). ...After defeating one temptation after another (the ultimate one being the passion of the cross), He'd completely overcome the nature that had come thru' Mary & become one with God... that's why He said what He said in Matt28:18...
this is a great concept--so why can't we ask for gays and women to be equal in the church, just like JS did about which church to join, blacks and the priesthood, etc.?? for a church of "continued revelation" and one based on the concept of "if ye lack wisdom, let him ask of God that giveth liberally and upbraideth not", we sure seem to be in the dark on some silly modern-day issues that could easily be clarified if we simply asked.
JS is the ONLY one who claimed to have seen TWO Gods, separate &distinct... Phillip was just trying to be shown the Father, visually... Like you, he had trouble realizing that he WAS seeing the Father in front of him... Jesus was the fulfillment of Isa9:6 "Unto us a child is born... (who’d be, among other things) Everlasting FATHER..." Jesus is the visible body, the Father the invisible Soul, &the Holy Spirit the activity of love going forth to save all humanity. Three aspects of ONE God…
When we elevate our own desires above God's, we make "gods" of ourselves... David did that when he decided to take another man's wife to bed, deceive Bathsheba's husband when he found she was w/child, &kill Uriah when his deception failed. He broke many commandments by overriding God. He committed adultery, he lied, he killed... That's what it means when it says to have no other gods before Me. Everyone's GOD is that which he LOVES above all else. Isa45:5&6&21&22 couldn't be clearer...
Of course "again with Abraham"...D&C132:34,35,&65 takes the Lord's name in vain by saying God commanded ABRAHAM to take another wife! It's good to know what God's commandments are (John14:15), so we can KEEP them... Don't remember polygamy being one of the ten! This life is a growing time... no one is expected to be perfect... Abraham set a good example by always trying to do what he thought was God's will... it's that innocent, willing attitude that God wants to encourage, be "father" to us...
Isaiah also says a lot about there being only ONE God (Isa44:8 &24,45:5&6&21&22etc, etc)... Do you believe HIM, or do you believe Joseph's "first" vision that took him over a decade to settle on, &was NOT the way he first reported it in his only handwritten account? ...A lot of mainline Christians don't understand it either, but JS damaged any possible future understanding for MORMONS, by saying he SAW what no one else in biblical history had seen: the father &son in separate&distinct bodies...
There's a difference between God "allowing" certain human missteps, &attributing the misdeed to GOD, saying He COMMANDED it... In the case of Abraham, the supposed command by God just isn't there! Sorry to sound like a broken record, but it was SARAI'S idea... Continue to excuse &worship the god of Joseph Smith... I'll continue to defend &worship the God who does NOT command polygamy, the God who says "treat others as you would be treated" (Matt7:12), &warns of false Christs (Matt24:5)...
The MORMON church defames the gospel of Christ by believing He would COMMAND something so against everything He stands for... When someone like Joseph Smith says he speaks for Christ, it's up to us to use our discernment to see if that's true. Deut13 explains the reason we're given these challenges: God is testing us to see if we love the Lord our God w/all our heart &soul. The God I love w/all my heart &soul did NOT command polygamy as claimed in D&C132:34,35&65... Matt19:4-6 is God's ideal...
Do you really think Sarai would've "outed Abraham for adultery and he'd have been stoned to death"? Did Emma "out Joseph for adultery &have him stoned to death?" She had far greater reason for feeling betrayed (over 30 for JS, only Hagar for Abram). Besides, it was SARAI'S idea, NOT God’s command! Matt19:4-6 makes clear God's ideal 4marriage. You might want to read Deut13 to find how you're following a god you have not known, one who COMMANDS polygamy, promises exaltation (D&C132:20), etc, etc~
D&C132:43,35&65 says god COMMANDED polygamy... Checking w/Gen16 reveals it was SARAI'S idea, NOT commanded by God. Solomon may have practiced polygamy but it wasn't by command of God. If you were truly followers of Jesus Christ as the name of your church implies, you would've heeded His words in Matthew 19:4-6. ...Mormons may think they've been given a true picture (the father &son are actually TWO separate entities, etc), but in fact their "revelations" have led them AWAY from God's truth...
Then you find out that Joseph Smith married 34 women, many of which were teen-aged girls and one as young as 14 years old.
He also married the wives of eleven other men. He would send men out on missions and then marry those missionaries' wives. Orson Hyde's wife married Joseph when Orson was on his mission to Jerusalem. Henry Jacobs' story is the same.
Joseph simply took these men's lives as his (in bed), yet didn't support them temporaly. Looking objectively, its just plain adultery.
I apologize for any confusion. I was limited to 500 characters and wasn't done with my point. haha! I was just reading the specifics on the LDS church's stance on tattoos and piercings and I believe I found the word "disfigurement." I disagree with that in most cases. I'm right there with you in wondering whether or not she would have been allowed to serve a full-time mission. It's one of the only things I've disagreed with the church standards on...
Who told your dad that he couldn't go to the temple with a Navy tattoo? Certainly that person was mistaken unless the standards have changed. My grandpa was asked to be a bishop back in the 50's or 60's and he smoked and drank (he was an LDS member only in membership, he only joined for my grandma)! They actually seemed more lax back then about some things than they are now.
I have a couple questions, in no way am I trying to be mean or poke fun etc, I just don't know and was curious. What are the underwear y'all wear, seriously. I've heard people talk about it and I was wondering what, or even if y'all do have to wear them, what are they for? I've been told y'all also baptize dead people(?) do you really do that? Before the funeral? I hope I wasn't offensive, I apologize if I was, it wasn't my intention.
I wonder if Ms Fox would have been allowed to serve a full time mission had she wanted to. Knowing the Church's view on tattoos I suspect 'Tattooed Mormons' while good for PR and the I'm a Mormon campaign aren't acceptable for representitives of the the Church. Sorry but my skeptical side thinks Al Fox and her appearance is accepted in Mormonism only as they serve to promote the Church.