Extra expense, would still require additional machining to prep block for sleeves, probably would still want to pin them, would have to completely redo the hone job (far more time than what Is shown in this repair), and would additionally have to drill the compression release holes and drill/tap the spark plug holes again (which we didn’t have to redo w/ this repair) Far more labor for a repair that in our opinion would not be any better.
@@JAMSIONLINE You guys look like the real deal, and know what your doing. Had a 340 Chrysler block sleeved and two of them dropped while making a pass at the drag strip, I’m just gun shy when it comes to resleeving, especially half sleeves, that all.
Thanks! Yeah it was maybe a toss up. I’m very happy with the finished product. I never use loctite on valve seats. I see your point about heat transfer, it makes sense. I’m curious if you know of any actual studies that have been done regarding the actual difference in heat transfer when loctite is used vs not? It would be interesting to see some hard data on it. Like I said, definitely makes sense, I just am curious of to how significant the findings would be,
Yea im just glad they are honest bc the shops round where I live wouldn't have cared and when it blew up they say oh well its on u. I hate the shops round here
When I started, an older guy in the shop would walk up to me and say stuff like this all the time. My boss was a very talented machinist and taught me a lot but Scott (the guy that encouraged me)... that's the guy who gets credit for my ability to get stuff done. Another favorite is "do you know the difference between an experienced machinist and a newbie? The old guy knows how to fix his mistakes."
Love the confidence behind your decision and willingness to back it up with a warranty. That's doing business right. Good on you for taking care of the customer!
I wish more people would realize how important it is to own up to mistakes and make things right i guarantee here at the end of the day everyone is happy
It was good of them to own up to their mistake, but their fix was no more then a professional cobble job. That’s why they gave it a life time warranty.
If I were the owner of this block I wouldn’t accepted the workaround unless the warranty covered labor to get the block back into their facility PLUS lost production that equipment would have directly impacted.
@@judd_s5643 u gotta remember this is an antique tractor motor that is probably going into a restored tractor and will never see hard work if any work at all
Heat expansion will be different at the lower part of the cylinder, you’ve got three different metals at two different temperature ranges expanding at different times and ranges.. I dunno guys . . . 🤷🏻♂️ I’d be pretty pissed if this was my cylinders, You Should have started again:
The biggest mistake I saw was John Deere designing the engine where the oil ring comes so close to the bottom of the cylinder . Your initial repair was flawless (1/4 to 3/16 retention at bottom of cylinder). The amazing aspect to me (46 years as automotive/diesel machinist- now retired) was the precision with which you recentered on the bore .If I could line back on a cylinder within .002/.003 I was well within the tolerances of my boring bar . All in all , a job well done !
I'm a retired engineer from a German run Tool & die shop with over 40 years experience in mold building for Fortune 100 companies & a car nut (BMW's) since 1996 (25 years) 1. Your reaching out to your customer is top notch. Honest! 2. your repair & warranty is top notch! This repair should work for a life time, in my opinion. This is a 2 cylinder JD tractor, not a high performance BMW. Great job, Great video, great honesty. Keep up the good work. Not too many honest people around any more.
It was my tractor I'd want new sleeves. A warranty doesn't mean much when you need the tractor now and your the the one that has to tear apart your tractor again.
It's a two-cylinder John Deere. The worst service it will probably see is a couple of parades every year. Doubtful that it would be used in a critical farm application.
I’m glad you’re willing to warranty that work BUT... you do realize that if something goes wrong... your warranty is a tiny thing in the shear amount of work required to fix that... right? The poor owner will be stuck working a LOT just to get that block back to you. That guy paid for a job to be done right and he should get a job dome right... doesn’t matter what your(and dads) feelings are. I thought you guys were more professional and I’m shocked you were so willing to save a couple bucks that you are quick to shaft your customer. Shame on you
Nic and Jim took the initiative to contact their customer after reading comments from their video regarding the original repair and its potential for failure. So they could fix it and provide a lifetime warranty on said repair not only shows professionalism but integrity. They are providing the same quality service; my great-grandfather, great-uncle, grandfather, and uncle, provided all of their customers for years until the untimely death of my uncle. When the family then closed the doors for good on Stockwell Manufacturing in Greybull, Wyoming.
@@juanitasthoughts I mean... they absolutely should contact the customer and cause the customer even more delay and cost and have them bring it back to the shop after THEY made a mistake. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees here. Great people make mistakes... but it’s how you deal with those mistakes that defines you. Don’t try to justify the actions of the channel owner by somehow trying to say they made things right by calling the customer to notify them of their poor work... and the remedy to the aforementioned poor work is to do even poorer work with a bandaid. But hey... that’s ok because they will WARRANTY it... right? 😂 people 🤦♂️
@@TsunauticusIV that engine will run better and longer than it ever did from new with the precise honing that they put on those cylinder sleeve. Obviously you've never run a John Deere two cylinder much less own one. They run is about 700 RPM with a cast-iron piston and very loose tolerances this thing will be a perfect repair and never have a problem with it. A high-end race car entirely different Beast. A two-cylinder John Deere with 5 to 1 compression and 700 RPM that will burn basically anything you run through it for fuel is not going to be a problem.
I wish more would put up video's like this................Cigar puffing old head in the first machine shop I worked at told me that the real creativity comes when you try to fix a screw up, and trust me, they happen everywhere. Most who only see the final product often never know they even happen.
While your repair I am sure will last. And your machine work is spot on. But I think you missed the mark on doing the right thing. First the man didn't pay you for a two piece sleeve. And secondly ask yourself if the guy came into your shop first and asked u just to repair the bad section of the liner. You wouldn't I sure u recommend doing the whole sleeve. You should just done it right and replaced both sleeves and all the other things on your dime
It doesn't have to please everyone. I bet the customer doesn't give a damn what some bloke on the other end of the world thinks. And yes, the lifetime warranty alone is the opposite of a giant red flag. Maybe that's a green flag?
I agree with Bill. That's a lot of work and extra risk to do all that extra work. It seems it would be the easiest and best solution to just bore out those incorrect sleeves and install a new set properly. Plus that repair will always be in question. Why not just do it right and forget about it.
God Bless the family run Small American business owner and employees. This is how you grow. Principles matter. Honesty is everything. We are all human and we all make mistakes. It's what you do after you make one that really matters and these guys have it down!
Awesome job and that's great that you share all your mistakes in this fashion. I agree the repair is probably going to hold up no problem. Although if it was mine I would be a little uneasy about it. With all the expansion and contraction of the cylinder over many years I feel like those little plugs could come loose. But then again I'm kind of a lunatic with my own stuff. Anyway, superb fix to an unfortunate mistake.
I have to say so many people overlook the fact that you not only manned up to your mistakes but you filmed it and showed it to the world... Thats freaking AWESOME Thank you for showing us that your quality of workmanship and your quality as a man is truly of the highest quality... Best of support from South Africa love the videos please make more its super relaxing to watch thanks
A wise man once said it takes a good man to admit to his mistakes. You did exactly that. You explained the situation, you took responsibility for what was done, and you empathized it was a "learning experience". That's amazing! I work in the automotive industry and its rough. I fortunately enough work for a reputable company with a very nice owner. He prides himself on his reputation and would rather loose out on a $2k job to keep the customer happy. Many other shops wouldnt care and change the customer anyways, not admit to their wrong-doings, and move on with their day like nothing every happened. I love watching your content. You seem like good people. Keep up all the amazing work
The Saturday Night Joke A man with no enemies Toward the end of the Sunday service the minister asked, "How many of you have forgiven your enemies?" 80% held up their hands. The minister then repeated his question. All responded this time, except one man, Walter Barnes. The minister said, "Walter, are you not willing to forgive your enemies?" "I don't have any," he replied gruffly. "That is very unusual. How old are you?" "Ninety-eight," he replied. The congregation stood up and clapped their hands. "Oh, Walter, would you please come down in front and tell us all how a person can live ninety-eight years and not have an enemy in the world?" Walter tottered down the aisle, stopped in front of the pulpit, turned around, faced the congregation, and said, "I outlived all them assholes." Then he calmly returned to his seat.
The Deere is back! Yay its gonna get fixed propper. You guys are dedicated to doin the job right and thats amazing! Shit happens as they say and no ones perfect. Keep being awesome and treating customers right!
I didn't catch it watching the earlier vid and I'm a Deere guy. I've heard of it more then once! Glad you found it and repaired it. I was surprised by the choice of repair but I can't see how it would be any problem at all!
I judge shops by the quality of their work, but I judge them even more on how they deal with their mistakes. Mistakes are bound to happen and how you deal with them is what makes or breaks a customer relationship. Top notch stuff right here.
@@WheatMillington I'm just talking about how he dealt with the mistake, and I'm guessing he communicated with the customer on the fix, offered the guarantee and customer was OK with it.
Being this transparent makes you stand out from the crowd. It’s the next best feeling off heartwarming, I commend you and your father’s decision to communicate with the customer and get the job done completely when things get sideways, as they do.
As a 43 year mechanic I've been in many engines and machining controversies. MLS head gasket surface ra. Is a much more likely real world scenario than thermal properties of sleeve expansion dissimilarities, especially because the customer has full knowledge of the repair. Manufacturers save many blocks with matching issues with overbore and select fit pistons. Innovation in overcoming an issue is to be commended as inventors have thousands of failures to success ratios at times... Edison's bulb filament comes to mind. Kudos for having the guts to stand up to the internet basement machinists who couldn't center a boring bar! My hats off to you and your Father!
Honda motorcycles have crank bearing shells to suit the upper and lower crank case and rod bearing halves. They are mixed and matched at the factory for the best fit.
We all make mistakes and you owned up to it and made it right.Be honest about this situation and admitting you made a mistake makes you a great person. The repair turned out great.Love watching your work.Thanks for sharing.👍👍👍👍☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
If that were mine I would have wanted it done again properly. Interesting solution but it's not what he paid for. Will you do a video if it comes back? I wouldn't think it will fail catastrophically but over time I can see oil passing scrapers because of uneven wear in a couple of areas.
First of all this is a two cylinder john deer, not some high rpm high dollar race engine. And if the customer is satisfied with what they did your opinion doesn't mean a hill of shit.
Coming from a family of inventors who designed, made, and manufactured farm equipment in Greybull, Wyoming a machine shop will always smell like home! Thanks Nic and Jim for sharing your craft! And don't be surprised if you end up with my Chevelle's little 283 small block for some additional TLC. 😉
It was said Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. You guys stepping up to fix a mistake before this engine was back in the tractor and standing behind your work for the customer is just first class.👍👍 The man who claims to know it all is a liar. Looking forward to learn more from your channel. Thanks for sharing
Model A runs at 975 R P M. Has a 5.5 inch bore (as was done) and a 6.75 inch stroke. Those engines do run slow compared to any modern engine. Most old tractors are now a hobby doing parades and such and not worked hard anymore, would like to know if this is the case with this one though. I own a john deere B and an mt. Got to love that 2 cylinder sound.
We had the same problem on a model B, we actually had the engine assembled and running when we noticed a tick, after inspection that’s what we found the oil ring hitting the sleeve seat, engine builder took good care of us and re sleeved it for us
You did ok! Chit happens! The repair you did makes no trouble at all in the thermal issue! I have or use to work on a lot of CAT Engines like the 941/951/977/ D8 etc and "some" times we had to do the same thing you did, and never never had and issue, some of those engines were working 10 hours a day per month over a full year and happy as ever!
Very honest shop I must say. However, I think they should have resleeved entire length. Seems like a lot more work to pin them. They are slow speed engines so it will probably last. Warranty is ok, but how many times you want to take it apart? Lot of time involved
Owning up to a mistake shows more integrity than most other shops are even capable of doing. As stated we are all human and mistakes are a part of life just making sure to do the right thing is the hardest part of making the mistake! Correcting it is the easy part after admitting it......
Why not just do the right thing, get new sleeves and start over. You messed up you could at least make it right. I’m not happy you are doing all these weirdo things to save some cash. I hope you sleep well. You know that in your heart that the sleeve gap however small will diminish the ring life and you still are going to send it out the door.
All is good that ends well. Nice job. I'm not a machinist but a auto tech for over 40 years and have a very good friend that owns a machine shop an seen him do some things like that to fix other machine shops mistakes and worked fine. Stay safe guys
I think that at least the community help catch the issue before it could have been bad. But we are all human and we should be nice and help others. Excellent video and lesson.
I completely respect the honesty and transparency. How would someone be able to get into machining? I live in Canada and want to learn this craft more and more
You know, a making a mistake is only a bad thing if you don't learn from it. And luckily, the swarm intelligence of youtube pointed that out to you. I mean, it's almost like crowdsourced QC. As always, thanks for the video!
If only most of the machining and engine shops were like you all instead of some. I onced had my 454 big block upper piston ring go pass the cylinder edge and warped the head. The Engine shop blamed me for pushing the engine too much to produce HP. I never went back to them. They did all engine assembling.
It would be interesting to see how this fix works over the life of engine. I'm sure we won't be around to find out unless something goes wrong in a dramatic fashion.
@@AzureCrux My interest is if the meeting point will make for an unusual wear point. It would be great if it could be cut at a rounded angle but that's not a very easy thing to do. I have seen blocks wear uneven just because the metal wasn't as hard in a particular area. Was really weird.
@@wolvenar I assume that they are using the same sleeve as what they used for the upper section, or at least the same material, so in theory it shouldn’t matter, but who knows, stranger things have happened. Though, if I remember correctly, the pistons for this engine are very tall, so the only thing actually passing over the meeting point will be the oil control ring, so probably a little less likely to wear strangely there
@@benr4677 I get that they are the same. But there is going to be a little bit of density difference in that spot. Worse is if somehow the ring catches. I would guess it will work fine for a long long time. It would just be interesting to see how it turned out after a long life.
OLÁ. Assisti seu belo trabalho de retífica de cilindros. Quanto ao encamisamento o processo utilizado me parece muito ULTRAPASSADO. ABRAÇOS... Roberto Udo Krapf
Harbor Freight: Some of their stuff is ok (SOME) and know the technology behind their stuff is frequently stolen. Be prudent -- Harbor Freight probably is okay for infrequent use but not long lasting or strong.
Great job! I know everyone's going to say "why not resleeve" but I think that repair will last a lifetime. Those old JD's are such low rpm engines anyway, again beautiful workmanship Nick.
Well done! First thought I had was why not remove the sleeves, bore out the stops and just fit new sleeves? But I wasn’t there and you’ve done a helluva lot more machining than I have? This looks great! I wouldn’t hesitate to use that block in my tractor…
*"A PERSON WHO NEVER MAKES MISTAKES, NEVER LEARNS. THEY ARE THERE TO TEACH A LESSON, NOT TO POINT FINGERS OR RUN AWAY FROM IT."* so many whining manchilds these days.. Especially for a fellow machinist, youre not always paid to get the good parts, youre also paid to innovate and improvise to revive the dead or out of tolerance parts, that will test your mettle and ingenuity.
I’m guessin you decided to put a half sleeve in cause it will only face up to the stroke of the lower oiled ring. Therefore the transition line won’t come into play with the upper rings. OK that’s showing you’re thinking…..but wouldn’t it have been easier to simply re-sleaze the entire bore and then you also would have to justify your fix.
I think it’s just great to see such Humble, Wonderful People such as you both!! God Bless You, keep on being Honest, and you will be more successful than you can even imagine!!
What a lot of folks commenting don't understand is that the JD Model A was what's called a "Poppin' Johnny" because it's "redline" was under 1,000 rpm. With a bore/stroke of 5.50x6.50 inches it had 309 cid and was rated at about 20 horsepower. Those engines would forgive a lot.
BVA Hydraulics are top quality equipment, I feel it's even better than Enerpac in value and quality. I'm slowly switching my equipment over to BVA as needed.
~~~ YOUNG MAN, YOU ARE DEAD ON w/YOUR THINKING AND YOUR VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE APPLICATION ON THIS FIX...YOU WILL DO WELL w/THAT ATTITUDE...BE PROUD !!! ~~~
We all human,,and occasionally have to lick our calf over,, Ain't it just ain't it 😎 lols....You did the right thing...that is the end game and show's who you are..... thanks 😎
I think you guys did a fine job on fixing your mistake. To be honest this machine runs all of about 900 RPM maximum and if the owner was going back to standard bore instead of .125 over the likely hood is that this will only be a parade tractor and its days of field work are long over with. Probably be lucky to see 20 hours of use a year, but I am sure the block will hold up to whatever use it gets.
Probably will not find out but how did the repair hold up two years later as I just watched the video in Dec of 2023. I would venture to say the engine is still pop popping away to this day. Thanks for the interesting content.
This was one of your most interesting videos. I would have never even thought of fixing the cylinder bore this way. Obviously a John Deere two lunger engine turns very low rpm. If this would have been a car or motorcycle engine that turns high rpm’s, would you still be confident with a repair like this?
didnt read comments at all , but a 61 yrs old in farm and construction who owned a small size engine shop , GOOD REPAIR . by the time installed , and bore final fit , with such a solid boring system , peeps wont be able to even SEE the joint . NEXT , compression ratio about 6;1 and LONG piston to guide . this end is oil cooled as well AND this oil ring is to keep oil OUT of bore from slosh and splash to assist the normal because a laydown engine . should be fine . i wood be curious , oh wait ... pinned?? and locktite ?? never going to be a problem . you done overkill . koool
This might be a silly question, but RUclips is well known for its friendly comment sections: After honing, when the hones are pulled from the bore, are the hones retracted in any way? If not, do you risk a set of longitudinal scratches in the bore?
I wouldn't be happy as a customer with this repair. Put new sleeves in and do it right. I have been an ASE master tech for years. I wouldn't accept this from our machine shop. Warranty on machine work doesn't pay labor to do something twice. We all make mistakes, it's how you fix them that counts. I have lots of experience that came from several mistakes. I don't like cobble jobs, and I hate doing something twice.
Why not put a magnet in a sandwich bag. On the cardboard box. Held on by another magnet in a bag, to catch the chips. Then just open and remove the magnet and the chips fall off! You can stick them everywhere chips fly . Even use Ring magnets or washer magnets on thick copper wire inside a bag with a larger magnet bon the end of the wire to attach it to something, to operate like a snake light, only being a snake magnet, so it can reach out and collect chips! Or even possibly catch clips and screws that get away !
Great job. I built a 700inch motor. Machinist made some little mistakes that caused huge damage. Wud have been $300 with honesty. The lie Cost $5000 and Didnt make it past dyno time. It is worth it to be honest.
Glad yaw are honest , I’ve been to a couple of machine shops over the years that weren’t honest and I been to good shops with bad employees , one drilled a hole into the water jacket that leaked out of the header , Vernon made good . But I had to tear down and clean parts .
Well, you were honest with the customer that you F'ed but that is a spooky fix. Like a fresh bored 2 stroke cylinder that didn't get the new edges chamfered, if he uses it hard, I hope the bottoms don't push out the back, ouch! If I happened to buy that and found out, I'd be pissed if the seller said it was overhauled & done professionally.
As a mechanic and machinist now retired. I would not repair this block this way , think of cost and time of doing all this work and BS versus just punching out the sleeves and installing new ones to the correct length. No matter what they do theirs going to be a lip in the cylinders that the piston rings will ride over. Also when I installed sleeves we would freeze them and wipe the inside of the block with a locking compound called Mooretight , it’s a gray liquid compound that would totally lock the sleeves. I don’t know it Mooretight is still available and I’m not sure if it’s still available today. I’m not a big fan of dry driving a sleeves into a engine block at all. My procedure step by step is to freeze the sleeves with dry ice , or vary cold freezer, or liquid nitrogen and at the same time putting a 150 watt light bulb in the cylinder to warm up the block then wipe the inside of the cylinder with Mooretight or now a days maybe some loctite bearing 680 compound then install the sleeves one at a time with a driver and hammer or press but generally speaking the sleeves will go in a lot easier then just doing a static hard drive press at room temperature.
Amazing repair, but why not get a new set of sleeves and start over?
Extra expense, would still require additional machining to prep block for sleeves, probably would still want to pin them, would have to completely redo the hone job (far more time than what Is shown in this repair), and would additionally have to drill the compression release holes and drill/tap the spark plug holes again (which we didn’t have to redo w/ this repair)
Far more labor for a repair that in our opinion would not be any better.
@@JAMSIONLINE You guys look like the real deal, and know what your doing. Had a 340 Chrysler block sleeved and two of them dropped while making a pass at the drag strip, I’m just gun shy when it comes to resleeving, especially half sleeves, that all.
@@andrewevans1658 if I was an actual engine machinist I would have started over.
Thanks! Yeah it was maybe a toss up. I’m very happy with the finished product.
I never use loctite on valve seats. I see your point about heat transfer, it makes sense. I’m curious if you know of any actual studies that have been done regarding the actual difference in heat transfer when loctite is used vs not? It would be interesting to see some hard data on it.
Like I said, definitely makes sense, I just am curious of to how significant the findings would be,
@@andrewevans1658 it is Andrew, I would have never guessed a repair could be made like that, hopefully it holds up.
A machinist who has never made a mistake has never run a machine.
Yea im just glad they are honest bc the shops round where I live wouldn't have cared and when it blew up they say oh well its on u. I hate the shops round here
Words to live by.. its either run them all dead parts w/o knowing it or run dead once and never again..
When I started, an older guy in the shop would walk up to me and say stuff like this all the time. My boss was a very talented machinist and taught me a lot but Scott (the guy that encouraged me)... that's the guy who gets credit for my ability to get stuff done. Another favorite is "do you know the difference between an experienced machinist and a newbie? The old guy knows how to fix his mistakes."
That and or never did a thing I hate admit it but I have had few
@@94XJ an experienced machinist knows how to fix his mistakes, a Master machinist knows how to fix his mistakes and get the customer to pay for them.
Love the confidence behind your decision and willingness to back it up with a warranty. That's doing business right. Good on you for taking care of the customer!
and showing the whole world! Great integrity...
Exactly. Ignore the moaners.
I wish more people would realize how important it is to own up to mistakes and make things right i guarantee here at the end of the day everyone is happy
And he now have more business than before :)
It was good of them to own up to their mistake, but their fix was no more then a professional cobble job. That’s why they gave it a life time warranty.
Yeah! If nothing bad happened, so what? In the end, it just shows that you're honest.
If I were the owner of this block I wouldn’t accepted the workaround unless the warranty covered labor to get the block back into their facility PLUS lost production that equipment would have directly impacted.
@@judd_s5643 u gotta remember this is an antique tractor motor that is probably going into a restored tractor and will never see hard work if any work at all
Heat expansion will be different at the lower part of the cylinder, you’ve got three different metals at two different temperature ranges expanding at different times and ranges..
I dunno guys . . . 🤷🏻♂️
I’d be pretty pissed if this was my cylinders,
You Should have started again:
Agreed. There is no water jacket where the “repair” interfaces with the good. Seems it will be a piston ring chipping machine.
You don't know what you don't know. Glad it was caught early. How can you beat a lifetime warranty?
You cant, unless the company would happen to go out of buisness.
Always very true
The biggest mistake I saw was John Deere designing the engine where the oil ring comes so close to the bottom of the cylinder . Your initial repair was flawless (1/4 to 3/16 retention at bottom of cylinder). The amazing aspect to me (46 years as automotive/diesel machinist- now retired) was the precision with which you recentered on the bore .If I could line back on a cylinder within .002/.003 I was well within the tolerances of my boring bar . All in all , a job well done !
In every industry, the true sign of a craftsman is how fast he can correct a mistake.
Better yet, a true craftsman doesn't make mistakes, they simply discover a new way NOT to do it.
Fun fact: this applies to medicine too! Ask your next surgeon about their last quick fix 👌🏼
Or hide it.
Medics bury their mistakes.
Guessing finding the parts are very difficult. That engine is very low rpm so I’m guessing the repair will last beyond your lifetime. Good video
I'm a retired engineer from a German run Tool & die shop with over 40 years experience in mold building for Fortune 100 companies & a car nut (BMW's) since 1996 (25 years) 1. Your reaching out to your customer is top notch. Honest! 2. your repair & warranty is top notch! This repair should work for a life time, in my opinion. This is a 2 cylinder JD tractor, not a high performance BMW. Great job, Great video, great honesty. Keep up the good work. Not too many honest people around any more.
It was my tractor I'd want new sleeves. A warranty doesn't mean much when you need the tractor now and your the the one that has to tear apart your tractor again.
It's a two-cylinder John Deere. The worst service it will probably see is a couple of parades every year. Doubtful that it would be used in a critical farm application.
I'm impressed that you guys shared your mistake with everyone and made it right and your business with thrive for doing business the way y'all do.
Very impressed as well
I’m glad you’re willing to warranty that work BUT... you do realize that if something goes wrong... your warranty is a tiny thing in the shear amount of work required to fix that... right? The poor owner will be stuck working a LOT just to get that block back to you. That guy paid for a job to be done right and he should get a job dome right... doesn’t matter what your(and dads) feelings are. I thought you guys were more professional and I’m shocked you were so willing to save a couple bucks that you are quick to shaft your customer. Shame on you
Nic and Jim took the initiative to contact their customer after reading comments from their video regarding the original repair and its potential for failure. So they could fix it and provide a lifetime warranty on said repair not only shows professionalism but integrity.
They are providing the same quality service; my great-grandfather, great-uncle, grandfather, and uncle, provided all of their customers for years until the untimely death of my uncle. When the family then closed the doors for good on Stockwell Manufacturing in Greybull, Wyoming.
@@juanitasthoughts I mean... they absolutely should contact the customer and cause the customer even more delay and cost and have them bring it back to the shop after THEY made a mistake. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees here. Great people make mistakes... but it’s how you deal with those mistakes that defines you. Don’t try to justify the actions of the channel owner by somehow trying to say they made things right by calling the customer to notify them of their poor work... and the remedy to the aforementioned poor work is to do even poorer work with a bandaid. But hey... that’s ok because they will WARRANTY it... right? 😂 people 🤦♂️
@@TsunauticusIV that engine will run better and longer than it ever did from new with the precise honing that they put on those cylinder sleeve. Obviously you've never run a John Deere two cylinder much less own one. They run is about 700 RPM with a cast-iron piston and very loose tolerances this thing will be a perfect repair and never have a problem with it. A high-end race car entirely different Beast. A two-cylinder John Deere with 5 to 1 compression and 700 RPM that will burn basically anything you run through it for fuel is not going to be a problem.
I wish more would put up video's like this................Cigar puffing old head in the first machine shop I worked at told me that the real creativity comes when you try to fix a screw up, and trust me, they happen everywhere. Most who only see the final product often never know they even happen.
Tool and Die maker for 45 years tell my trainees everyone makes mistakes but being creative to solve mistake is where true learning comes from.
While your repair I am sure will last. And your machine work is spot on. But I think you missed the mark on doing the right thing. First the man didn't pay you for a two piece sleeve. And secondly ask yourself if the guy came into your shop first and asked u just to repair the bad section of the liner. You wouldn't I sure u recommend doing the whole sleeve. You should just done it right and replaced both sleeves and all the other things on your dime
You're a good boy. Take care off your father. It's great and inspiring to see families working together. God bless. From Australia.
mistakes are just a learning curve.... Honest people are worth their weight in Gold.. My opinion
I'll agree that it won't please everyone, but the repair will be perfectly fine. Very good of you to give them a lifetime warranty on it 👍
It doesn't have to please everyone. I bet the customer doesn't give a damn what some bloke on the other end of the world thinks. And yes, the lifetime warranty alone is the opposite of a giant red flag. Maybe that's a green flag?
I agree with Bill. That's a lot of work and extra risk to do all that extra work. It seems it would be the easiest and best solution to just bore out those incorrect sleeves and install a new set properly. Plus that repair will always be in question. Why not just do it right and forget about it.
God Bless the family run Small American business owner and employees. This is how you grow. Principles matter. Honesty is everything. We are all human and we all make mistakes. It's what you do after you make one that really matters and these guys have it down!
Awesome job and that's great that you share all your mistakes in this fashion. I agree the repair is probably going to hold up no problem. Although if it was mine I would be a little uneasy about it. With all the expansion and contraction of the cylinder over many years I feel like those little plugs could come loose. But then again I'm kind of a lunatic with my own stuff. Anyway, superb fix to an unfortunate mistake.
It's not how good you are, it's how good you fix your mistakes! Nice job.
One of the really great carpenters that I apprenticed for told me the exact same thing! Forty years later it's still fresh in my mind.
I have to say so many people overlook the fact that you not only manned up to your mistakes but you filmed it and showed it to the world... Thats freaking AWESOME
Thank you for showing us that your quality of workmanship and your quality as a man is truly of the highest quality... Best of support from South Africa love the videos please make more its super relaxing to watch thanks
A wise man once said it takes a good man to admit to his mistakes. You did exactly that. You explained the situation, you took responsibility for what was done, and you empathized it was a "learning experience". That's amazing!
I work in the automotive industry and its rough. I fortunately enough work for a reputable company with a very nice owner. He prides himself on his reputation and would rather loose out on a $2k job to keep the customer happy. Many other shops wouldnt care and change the customer anyways, not admit to their wrong-doings, and move on with their day like nothing every happened.
I love watching your content. You seem like good people. Keep up all the amazing work
The Saturday Night Joke
A man with no enemies
Toward the end of the Sunday service the minister asked, "How many of you have forgiven your enemies?"
80% held up their hands.
The minister then repeated his question. All responded this time, except one man, Walter Barnes.
The minister said, "Walter, are you not willing to forgive your enemies?"
"I don't have any," he replied gruffly.
"That is very unusual. How old are you?"
"Ninety-eight," he replied. The congregation stood up and clapped their hands.
"Oh, Walter, would you please come down in front and tell us all how a person can live ninety-eight years and not have an enemy in the world?"
Walter tottered down the aisle, stopped in front of the pulpit, turned around, faced the congregation, and said, "I outlived all them assholes."
Then he calmly returned to his seat.
The Deere is back! Yay its gonna get fixed propper. You guys are dedicated to doin the job right and thats amazing! Shit happens as they say and no ones perfect. Keep being awesome and treating customers right!
I didn't catch it watching the earlier vid and I'm a Deere guy. I've heard of it more then once! Glad you found it and repaired it. I was surprised by the choice of repair but I can't see how it would be any problem at all!
Thats why you buy Red.
@@Bill-xc8le Everybody has their preference. I prefer the color of money so at least I know where it went LOL
@@weirddeere lol!!
I judge shops by the quality of their work, but I judge them even more on how they deal with their mistakes. Mistakes are bound to happen and how you deal with them is what makes or breaks a customer relationship. Top notch stuff right here.
You'd be happy with this patch-up job when you paid for a re-sleeve?
@@WheatMillington I'm just talking about how he dealt with the mistake, and I'm guessing he communicated with the customer on the fix, offered the guarantee and customer was OK with it.
Being this transparent makes you stand out from the crowd. It’s the next best feeling off heartwarming, I commend you and your father’s decision to communicate with the customer and get the job done completely when things get sideways, as they do.
As a 43 year mechanic I've been in many engines and machining controversies. MLS head gasket surface ra. Is a much more likely real world scenario than thermal properties of sleeve expansion dissimilarities, especially because the customer has full knowledge of the repair. Manufacturers save many blocks with matching issues with overbore and select fit pistons. Innovation in overcoming an issue is to be commended as inventors have thousands of failures to success ratios at times... Edison's bulb filament comes to mind. Kudos for having the guts to stand up to the internet basement machinists who couldn't center a boring bar! My hats off to you and your Father!
Honda motorcycles have crank bearing shells to suit the upper and lower crank case and rod bearing halves. They are mixed and matched at the factory for the best fit.
We all make mistakes and you owned up to it and made it right.Be honest about this situation and admitting you made a mistake makes you a great person. The repair turned out great.Love watching your work.Thanks for sharing.👍👍👍👍☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
If that were mine I would have wanted it done again properly.
Interesting solution but it's not what he paid for.
Will you do a video if it comes back?
I wouldn't think it will fail catastrophically but over time I can see oil passing scrapers because of uneven wear in a couple of areas.
100% agree. I appreciate how honest he is but I expect what I pay for. It's always different when the cock ups are on your engine block.
@@Rick-fs9wc Yes, I guess the guy is a dealer so doesn't care
Agreed. This should gave been a full resleave. Clever fix, will work, but, was done to cut shop expense wich makes it BS
First of all this is a two cylinder john deer, not some high rpm high dollar race engine. And if the customer is satisfied with what they did your opinion doesn't mean a hill of shit.
@@Sawmods Wow, a little sensitive???? Have a nice day!
Coming from a family of inventors who designed, made, and manufactured farm equipment in Greybull, Wyoming a machine shop will always smell like home!
Thanks Nic and Jim for sharing your craft!
And don't be surprised if you end up with my Chevelle's little 283 small block for some additional TLC. 😉
Shoot I was just near greybull . Beautiful bullys btw
Love the old tractors on here as I’ve said before. Looks like a solid repair that will give the owner another 60 years of service
It was said Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. You guys stepping up to fix a mistake before this engine was back in the tractor and standing behind your work for the customer is just first class.👍👍 The man who claims to know it all is a liar. Looking forward to learn more from your channel. Thanks for sharing
Model A runs at 975 R P M. Has a 5.5 inch bore (as was done) and a 6.75 inch stroke. Those engines do run slow compared to any modern engine. Most old tractors are now a hobby doing parades and such and not worked hard anymore, would like to know if this is the case with this one though. I own a john deere B and an mt. Got to love that 2 cylinder sound.
We had the same problem on a model B, we actually had the engine assembled and running when we noticed a tick, after inspection that’s what we found the oil ring hitting the sleeve seat, engine builder took good care of us and re sleeved it for us
You did ok! Chit happens! The repair you did makes no trouble at all in the thermal issue! I have or use to work on a lot of CAT Engines like the 941/951/977/ D8 etc and "some" times we had to do the same thing you did, and never never had and issue, some of those engines were working 10 hours a day per month over a full year and happy as ever!
I appreciate that you stepped up and called first. This is why I follow you.
Very honest shop I must say. However, I think they should have resleeved entire length. Seems like a lot more work to pin them. They are slow speed engines so it will probably last. Warranty is ok, but how many times you want to take it apart? Lot of time involved
Owning up to a mistake shows more integrity than most other shops are even capable of doing. As stated we are all human and mistakes are a part of life just making sure to do the right thing is the hardest part of making the mistake! Correcting it is the easy part after admitting it......
"Do not judge me by my successes, judge me by how I've learned and grew by the mistakes I made"
I absolutely love this video. Seeing how you would actually fix a machining mistake is fascinating.
Cant see an issue if the compression rings don't pass below join, but in saying that, i would have opted to for full lengh sleeve.
I applaud you stepping up, contacting the customer and making things right!!!
Why not just do the right thing, get new sleeves and start over. You messed up you could at least make it right. I’m not happy you are doing all these weirdo things to save some cash. I hope you sleep well. You know that in your heart that the sleeve gap however small will diminish the ring life and you still are going to send it out the door.
I'm glad to see that you guys found a way to correct the problem and are being honest about what happened. The repair looks beautiful!
All is good that ends well. Nice job. I'm not a machinist but a auto tech for over 40 years and have a very good friend that owns a machine shop an seen him do some things like that to fix other machine shops mistakes and worked fine. Stay safe guys
I think that at least the community help catch the issue before it could have been bad.
But we are all human and we should be nice and help others.
Excellent video and lesson.
I completely respect the honesty and transparency. How would someone be able to get into machining? I live in Canada and want to learn this craft more and more
I always teach my apprentices to own their work. Good or bad.
If you aint learning at some point your lying.
Integrity = respect
I like your fix if it were mine I would be very happy with it with the press fit loctite plus the pins those sleeves WIIL stay put
Wow!!!...that was a good catch on the commentors part...your fix is interesting!!!... I'm learning when you guys do!!👍👍👍😊😎
Craftsmanship and honesty. The two are inseparable. Always be proud of what you do.
You know, a making a mistake is only a bad thing if you don't learn from it. And luckily, the swarm intelligence of youtube pointed that out to you. I mean, it's almost like crowdsourced QC.
As always, thanks for the video!
Can't even see the join! Nice repair.
Your honesty and showing your repair is educational and appreciated
If you never made a mistake you have never did anything. I like using sleeves with a flange ontop and then counter bore the top of the block.
Oh yea I forgot I love your chip containment system...
Honesty is the best policy.
Great Video!!!! Great Honesty!!!
You live and you learn shout out to these guys for acknowledging they messed up and making it right! Super great guys
If only most of the machining and engine shops were like you all instead of some. I onced had my 454 big block upper piston ring go pass the cylinder edge and warped the head. The Engine shop blamed me for pushing the engine too much to produce HP. I never went back to them. They did all engine assembling.
It would be interesting to see how this fix works over the life of engine. I'm sure we won't be around to find out unless something goes wrong in a dramatic fashion.
It’s press fit, cut to the correct dimensions and joked true with the rest. Block will crack before this repair fails.
@@AzureCrux My interest is if the meeting point will make for an unusual wear point. It would be great if it could be cut at a rounded angle but that's not a very easy thing to do. I have seen blocks wear uneven just because the metal wasn't as hard in a particular area. Was really weird.
@@wolvenar I assume that they are using the same sleeve as what they used for the upper section, or at least the same material, so in theory it shouldn’t matter, but who knows, stranger things have happened. Though, if I remember correctly, the pistons for this engine are very tall, so the only thing actually passing over the meeting point will be the oil control ring, so probably a little less likely to wear strangely there
@@benr4677 I get that they are the same. But there is going to be a little bit of density difference in that spot. Worse is if somehow the ring catches. I would guess it will work fine for a long long time. It would just be interesting to see how it turned out after a long life.
I think it will be fine. Also just curious, how did you camouflage all the duct tape!!! 😂 Sorry I'm being a youtube dumba**
Something I learned from my dad “it’s only a mistake if you don’t fix it” also my dad says “ if you’re not getting better, you’re getting worse”
OLÁ. Assisti seu belo trabalho de retífica de cilindros. Quanto ao encamisamento o processo utilizado me parece muito ULTRAPASSADO. ABRAÇOS... Roberto Udo Krapf
Harbor Freight: Some of their stuff is ok (SOME) and know the technology behind their stuff is frequently stolen. Be prudent -- Harbor Freight probably is okay for infrequent use but not long lasting or strong.
She’ll be golden! When you’re doing engines on a daily basis and not an arm chair guy little boo boos will happen.
Great job! I know everyone's going to say "why not resleeve" but I think that repair will last a lifetime. Those old JD's are such low rpm engines anyway, again beautiful workmanship Nick.
Well done! First thought I had was why not remove the sleeves, bore out the stops and just fit new sleeves? But I wasn’t there and you’ve done a helluva lot more machining than I have? This looks great! I wouldn’t hesitate to use that block in my tractor…
*"A PERSON WHO NEVER MAKES MISTAKES, NEVER LEARNS. THEY ARE THERE TO TEACH A LESSON, NOT TO POINT FINGERS OR RUN AWAY FROM IT."* so many whining manchilds these days..
Especially for a fellow machinist, youre not always paid to get the good parts, youre also paid to innovate and improvise to revive the dead or out of tolerance parts, that will test your mettle and ingenuity.
I’m guessin you decided to put a half sleeve in cause it will only face up to the stroke of the lower oiled ring. Therefore the transition line won’t come into play with the upper rings. OK that’s showing you’re thinking…..but wouldn’t it have been easier to simply re-sleaze the entire bore and then you also would have to justify your fix.
I think it’s just great to see such Humble, Wonderful People such as you both!! God Bless You, keep on being Honest, and you will be more successful than you can even imagine!!
What a lot of folks commenting don't understand is that the JD Model A was what's called a "Poppin' Johnny" because it's "redline" was under 1,000 rpm. With a bore/stroke of 5.50x6.50 inches it had 309 cid and was rated at about 20 horsepower. Those engines would forgive a lot.
At least you admitted you made a mistake and showed how to fix it. Great job
BVA Hydraulics are top quality equipment, I feel it's even better than Enerpac in value and quality. I'm slowly switching my equipment over to BVA as needed.
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YOUNG MAN, YOU ARE DEAD ON w/YOUR THINKING AND YOUR VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE APPLICATION ON THIS FIX...YOU WILL DO WELL w/THAT ATTITUDE...BE PROUD !!!
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The important part of making a mistake, is taking the responsibility for it, which you did nicely. Great work.
Beautiful. That tractor, with proper maintenance, will run forever with that repair. Good job!
I like the cardboard box to keep the chips off the floor!
Took a couple of cuts before it was like “okay enough of this” 🤣 chips were everywhere lol
@@JAMSIONLINE Abom78 has entered the chat
We all human,,and occasionally have to lick our calf over,, Ain't it just ain't it 😎 lols....You did the right thing...that is the end game and show's who you are..... thanks 😎
I think you guys did a fine job on fixing your mistake. To be honest this machine runs all of about 900 RPM maximum and if the owner was going back to standard bore instead of .125 over the likely hood is that this will only be a parade tractor and its days of field work are long over with. Probably be lucky to see 20 hours of use a year, but I am sure the block will hold up to whatever use it gets.
Probably will not find out but how did the repair hold up two years later as I just watched the video in Dec of 2023. I would venture to say the engine is still pop popping away to this day. Thanks for the interesting content.
This was one of your most interesting videos. I would have never even thought of fixing the cylinder bore this way. Obviously a John Deere two lunger engine turns very low rpm. If this would have been a car or motorcycle engine that turns high rpm’s, would you still be confident with a repair like this?
didnt read comments at all , but a 61 yrs old in farm and construction who owned a small size engine shop , GOOD REPAIR . by the time installed , and bore final fit , with such a solid boring system , peeps wont be able to even SEE the joint . NEXT , compression ratio about 6;1 and LONG piston to guide . this end is oil cooled as well AND this oil ring is to keep oil OUT of bore from slosh and splash to assist the normal because a laydown engine . should be fine . i wood be curious , oh wait ... pinned?? and locktite ?? never going to be a problem . you done overkill . koool
It's not a f**k up if you can fix it. That's the difference between a mechanic and a craftsman. Keep doing the right thing 👍👊🙏✌️
This might be a silly question, but RUclips is well known for its friendly comment sections:
After honing, when the hones are pulled from the bore, are the hones retracted in any way? If not, do you risk a set of longitudinal scratches in the bore?
I wouldn't be happy as a customer with this repair. Put new sleeves in and do it right. I have been an ASE master tech for years. I wouldn't accept this from our machine shop. Warranty on machine work doesn't pay labor to do something twice. We all make mistakes, it's how you fix them that counts. I have lots of experience that came from several mistakes. I don't like cobble jobs, and I hate doing something twice.
Why not put a magnet in a sandwich bag. On the cardboard box. Held on by another magnet in a bag, to catch the chips. Then just open and remove the magnet and the chips fall off! You can stick them everywhere chips fly . Even use Ring magnets or washer magnets on thick copper wire inside a bag with a larger magnet bon the end of the wire to attach it to something, to operate like a snake light, only being a snake magnet, so it can reach out and collect chips! Or even possibly catch clips and screws that get away !
Adults own up to mistakes, charlatans leave their customers to pay for them. Excellent repair and good business practice. Keep up the good work.
Not many shops would admit to a mistake. Thanks for your honesty and the repair looks amazing, great work!!
Great job. I built a 700inch motor. Machinist made some little mistakes that caused huge damage. Wud have been $300 with honesty. The lie Cost $5000 and Didnt make it past dyno time. It is worth it to be honest.
Glad yaw are honest , I’ve been to a couple of machine shops over the years that weren’t honest and I been to good shops with bad employees , one drilled a hole into the water jacket that leaked out of the header , Vernon made good . But I had to tear down and clean parts .
Yea when you think about it you have no reason to cop any flack for this repair that looks perfectly sound to me it's not the business end anyway.
Well, you were honest with the customer that you F'ed but that is a spooky fix. Like a fresh bored 2 stroke cylinder
that didn't get the new edges chamfered, if he uses it hard, I hope the bottoms don't push out the back, ouch!
If I happened to buy that and found out, I'd be pissed if the seller said it was overhauled & done professionally.
As a mechanic and machinist now retired. I would not repair this block this way , think of cost and time of doing all this work and BS versus just punching out the sleeves and installing new ones to the correct length. No matter what they do theirs going to be a lip in the cylinders that the piston rings will ride over. Also when I installed sleeves we would freeze them and wipe the inside of the block with a locking compound called Mooretight , it’s a gray liquid compound that would totally lock the sleeves. I don’t know it Mooretight is still available and I’m not sure if it’s still available today. I’m not a big fan of dry driving a sleeves into a engine block at all. My procedure step by step is to freeze the sleeves with dry ice , or vary cold freezer, or liquid nitrogen and at the same time putting a 150 watt light bulb in the cylinder to warm up the block then wipe the inside of the cylinder with Mooretight or now a days maybe some loctite bearing 680 compound then install the sleeves one at a time with a driver and hammer or press but generally speaking the sleeves will go in a lot easier then just doing a static hard drive press at room temperature.
Rock solid business model, make a mistake....admit you were wrong....then fix it! Good way to retain customers!!!!