Slingshot maneuvers work because they borrow momentum from the planetary body's orbit. Since SE planets are static, no effective slingshot is possible. To speed up, you slingshot with the direction of the orbit, to slow down, you do the reverse. Cool video! -DE
I would even add that gravity decrease at a linear (instead of quadratic in real life ?) pace in SE. So you probably can't do much realistic maneuvres.
Isn't he technically making a course change? He enters at one angle, and leaves at another, using no thrust energy for course correction. In that sense, gravity-assisted course change is absolutely possible in Space Engineers - just not speed correction, as you noted.
I think the reason you gained speed at the end of the slingshot was because you were using your gyroscopes to look around with the ship. This sometimes messes with the speed of the craft, especially with the dampers off.
@@AndrewmanGaming but that you had to use the gyros is a interesting thing because it looks like even that is realistic in space engineers. if you orbit you wont change your facing direction with the orbit angel as i know.
Purely theoretically, slingshot maneuvers in space engineers do work. But not with planets. They do however, work as intended (Almost) with gravity generators that are moving. Tried it myself using a character first, later with artificial mass blocks.
Great video with pretty accurate science! The 1m/s+ speed difference in the game experiment is likely due to Space Engineers' planet non-homogeneous gravity well, created by rugged terrain. The terrain above acceleration phase may be slightly higher and closer to the trajectory of the space ship then the terrain above deceleration phase. thus, space ship received more gravitational force during acceleration, causes it gain a little bit more in final speed.
The only type of gravity assist you can ever do in space engineers is the change in direction, since there's no orbital mechanics in the game (the planets don't orbit the Sun) and thus you can't increase/decrease speed relative to the Sun (which was the speed you were expecting to change)
The great thing about this maneuver is that you can change the direction of flight without the need for thrust. So it still makes sense to use it in space Engineers.
Let me clear abit about slingshot that "space people do". Its not gravity alone that you require to do slingshot ( gravity assist) its relative speed energy and gravity that planet transfers to your spacecraft when you slingshot behind the planet. If you go infront of planet your speed decreases so your speed energy transfers to the planets speed making planet go faster. Space engineers only have gravity on static planet which is why its not possible to gain speed. I might not be fully right but this is how i see it.
You're basically right. The way I always look at it is, if the planet/moon/any other object with mass is stationary, you basically just fall into the gravity well and then use all that energy to go back up again. But if the planet is moving, you start falling down, but at the same time the planet and its gravity well is moving away from you, so you need to use less energy to get out than you got from falling. It's basically what you said but for me personally looking at it with the concept of gravity wells is a lot more intuitive so I'm putting this down here.
you can gain speed from slingshot manouvers in space engineers (I think ). but not with planets. Try it with spherical gravitationalgenerators that are movving fast and try to add something from their velocity
It could also be interesting to make an orbitting sattelite around a sph. gravity gen. And if he gets a signal he uses a little thrust pulse to initiate a slingshot manouver to get to the koordinates. That would take insane programming and physic knowledge but maybe somethink greate as a community project if the community gets bigger.
Next video try the action/reaction principle. Throw stuff from a spacecraft using different techniques and try to gain speed through that. Like irl in space if you throw a space you not only give this stone speed the stone also gives you speed. I hope u understand what I mean. That would be a great video and not as impossible as all them "dig out a whole planet" suggestions lol.
One important point is, that the spacecraft also takes away some of that energy from the planet to accelerate. Just like in your example with the train and the ball, the train would transfere a tiny bit of it's energy to the ball, but since the train is so massive compared to the ball, it's barely noticable. Meaning that if you'd perform enough slingshot manuevers on the same planet (we're talking trillion of maneuvers with giant spacecrafts) you'd slow down the planets orbital speed. Or if you take a large stellar object and fling it into the same direction as you'd do for a slingshot maneuver, you'd disturb the planet's orbital speed immensely (Try it in Universe Sandbox). :)
This is true! It's crazy to think about but then everything in space is crazy. For instance, gravity as we know it exists in such a way that the gravity created by me is effecting (very insignificantly) every single star in every single galaxy in the universe!
How about how much weight can a small parachute stop? I've had small ships weight 500k+ coming through atmosphere at 350 and it stops instantly. If you put a parachute on a landing gear and attach it to a big ship, how much weight will it hold?
The slingshot maneuvers use the gravitation, the rotation and the self-movement of the planet. In Spaceengineer, a planet has only gravity. Thus, only changes in direction would be possible but no acceleration or deceleration.
@@deltacx1059 Only gravity is a problem. Because the object must re-use the extra kinetic energy it has received through the gravitational pull to move out of the gravitational field. So there is no speed gain at the end. The extra gain in swing-by maneuvers results from the transfer of a tiny fraction of the kinetic energy as well as the rotational energy of the planet. With static planets without rotation and proper motion, no swing-by maneuver can be performed, but at most a change of direction.
I like to think about gravity assists outside of the context of the planet. If the spacecraft is fast enough that it whizzes behind the planet’s orbit without being captured, it will gain speed. If the planet is going left to right and the spacecraft comes in from below, throughout their entire interaction the spacecraft is being pulled to the right. It starts falling toward the planet but the planet is moving out of the way.
I love how we have so many people in the comments explaining how gravity assists work and why they wouldnt work in SE by repeating the same information in the video
“Space people” probably use complicated and precise calculations that take months to complete and check, resulting in the absolute minimum possible variables and inaccuracies. Just like we don’t usually train and learn years worth of engineering or piloting before we play this game, we don’t usually go through such calculations. We just make sure we have enough thrusters, and hope like hell that we don’t run out of fuel.
You could still make use of the oberth effect if you fire your engines during the maneuver. Because your engine thrust is always the same but kinetic energy is proportional to the square of the velocity, your engines are actually more "powerful" at a higher speed, and you get more kinetic energy for the same amount of fuel. And you carry that extra energy when you leave the gravity well. To make use of this, all you have to do is accelerate forwards (or backwards if you want to slow down) just before your altitude starts increasing again. Accelerating fowards by 10 m/s down there will net you a larger increase when you get back to deep space, and the same goes for braking.
I think that your explanation of the slingshot manuver is pretty good for people who dont know anything about it, but I would had like to see asterisc when simplifing it.
The thing is he said some wrong stuff, you don’t gain gravity or any of that, a gravity assist is done by gaining a little bit of kinetic orbital energy from the desired planet, and you trade some of your energy and the planet gives some of its energy to you, but you gain a lot more. You don’t gain energy from just gravity alone. This is also impossible to do in space engineers because to do a gravity assist, successfully, the planet needs to be orbiting. But planets in SE don’t orbit, nothing orbits other than some players who use the unlimited speed mod. “But the day and night cycle” no that’s just the sun being part of a skybox, there is no sun.
Haha well tbh I wasn't really simplifying it in the explanation. I explained just about as much as I know about it. Did I forget to mention some key aspects of the physics involved?
Funny you should mention that! I have a few videos on the channel from awhile ago on KSP. Also I did a KSP stream on Twitch just a few days ago and I finally managed to orbit! KSP is pretty fun but also really complicated.
@@AndrewmanGaming true its quite hard to get into but once you do it gets really fun when you plan cool spacecrafts to have multiple stages to get into moons or planets and back Like building space station that can fuel your spaceship at Earth orbit then you fly to another planet where you have another station waiting to refuel again for journey back after you land to planet and collect some science. of course need to send more fuel to those stations or you can go and mine ores and turn them into fuels.
I just thought of a fun thing to test. How long can a ship be? If such an extremely long ship was to be made, how would gyro placement affect it? (does having gyros only in the back make it turn differently than in the center?) And how fast would you move if the control seat was on the end of the ship while it is turning?
I remember seeing a video a while back of someone trying to break space engineers with the unlimited speed mod. After a bunch of weird sh*t he decided to paste a black hole in front and to the right of his ship. After the game caught up his ship was moving away from the black in the opposite direction at the same rate of speed it was before.
Hey man I know it's been over a year but do you think that you can revisit your orbiting a planet video would love to see you make a true orbiting satellite without any human intervention like you can launch it put it into orbit and it will stay there would love to see you try to do that pretty please
Slingshotting does not affect your velocity. It’s the same when it enters and leaves. What it does is change the direction you’re traveling in relation to the mass you were previously orbiting and depending upon which direction you slingshot it can either raise or lower your orbit. There’s more to it but yea
Neat ! I binged all episodes lol... And It's been 1 month since the last BR stream. I really like your content compared to other SE youtubers, I feel like it's because you are speaking casually and normally like you would IRL (Not that I know you IRL lol) and that really puts me at ease and calms my nerves. I've been doing alot of things IRL and it stressing me out like crazy but thx to you I can actually relax. Anyway thank you so much for all this, I can't thank you enough. I'll also buy the Tier 4 in patreon not long from now. edit; typo
@@johnderat2652 0.0 No one has ever bought the tier 4! It would have me make a personalized drawing for you. For real though, thanks for the kind words! I'm glad these videos help you out. I'll try to keep being as casual as possible :)
You can't slingshot since that requires planetary motion, but gravity assist maneuvers are totally possible since you can use the gravity of a planet to change your velocity vector. NASA's OSIRIS REX uses this type of gravity assist maneuver during it's mission. And in your video you should have taken note of your velocity vector as the best use of gravity assists is actually redirecting the course of your spacecraft. Thus the maneuver was a success
In order to use a sling shot, the planets have to be moving. In SE, the planets are in stationary fixed positions therefore no, you cant slingshot. It will change your direction but thats it. Also 100ms is definitely not enough for a sling shot maneuver stock game.
By the laws of physics it's impossible to slingshot and gain speed from a static body. The gravity experienced towards and away is equal. However, in saying this, losing weight on exit (i.e. burning fuel with boosters) allows a speed increase due to the reduced gravity on the lighter exit.
Nice vid. If u had put waypoints at start and finish, you could have calculated (using trigonometri) how big you deviation from the original course had been
I know this is super old, but if the train operator sees the ball bounce off at 60m/sec, then to the thrower, it would be moving at 110m/sec (60 for the bounce plus 50 for the speed of the train). The train would slow down by the amount of energy needed to accelerate the ball that much, which is negligible for this exercise.
You could explain slingshot speed differences by simply saying that since the planet is moving, you spend more / less time gaining speed by dropping than losing it by flying back out, couldn't you?
Technically it doesn’t lose all the gravity because while you are in the planets gravitational field you start gaining speed therefore when you exit you will pass the 2nd half of gravity much faster than you came in at so the gravity couldn’t pull back its original gravity fully back
Let's say you start entering the gravity with a speed of 10m/s. You gain speed so by the time you reach your halfway point, where you start leaving the gravity, your speed is at 50m/s. It might seem like you would leave the gravity much faster because now you're going quite a bit faster than before but you have to remember that the whole time you're leaving the gravity, your speed is decreasing. You come out of the gravity at the same 10 m/s that you started at! If you want to try this out on your own, take a marble on a string. Let it lie at rest. Call this point the "midpoint" of the gravity. It's where your acceleration will go from positive to negative. Now raise the marble up on one side. Call this the point where you 'enter' the gravity. Release the marble. It will quickly gain speed as it falls toward that midpoint, but once it reaches that midpoint and starts 'leaving' the gravity, it will slow down until it reaches 0m/s at almost the same height as you dropped it from originally!
28 seconds in and i can say: no you can't, the planets do not move BUT the oberth effect should work. for a gravity assist, the only way would be to have an artificial mass on the ship and passing next to an other ship that has some gravity generators (without colliding... probably need modded generators...) and is heavier and moving, so you do a fly by, that will change your speed ever so slightly.
well replying to my self... it might not work for the oberth effect... i have been playing for too long with the orbital mod installed and forgot there is no orbit in the game... so just pointing strait at is better than orbiting close to add more speed...
I think I know why you gained speed in the slingshot you did. You were travelling faster on the way out of the gravity than on the way in to it so the game logic says you lose less speed because you spent less time in the gravity field and lost less speed as a result
thats not how a slingshot maneuver works, you still need to thrust and the periapsis of the orbital arch, if you dont thrust you lose the same speed you gained when you leave
no you dont have to use thrusters really depends on the final orbit you want to achieve. for example look at cassini the engine was only use for orbital insertions and lining it up with the next gravity assist
A prediction before I see the end: you can't get a gravity assist from a SE planet because SE planets aren't orbiting anything, they are static objects pinned in space. Gravity assists work by robbing the planet of velocity thru the gravity interaction of it an a spacecraft in a solar reference frame... which doesn't exist in SE. The thing is that if you are approaching a planet from behind its solar orbit, it is "falling away" from you and you spend a (much) longer time accelerating toward it than you spend exiting its hill sphere, this slows the planet (by a ridiculously tiny ammount) and transfers that momentum to the spacecraft... in that solar reference frame. But since SE dosent have a solar reference frame, I predict that your craft will have the same speed exiting the hill sphere (or planet's gravity) as it had entering; The planet is static, no momentum is transferred, and the planet pulls on the craft for the same intensities for the same duration going in as coming out.
In SE gravity falls off at r^-7. Set the falloff in Sandbox.sbc to 2 to get r^-2, which it should be if SE were set in 3D space as the graphics suggest. But of course the sun in SE is infinitely far away, and yet the same sun itself orbits all the planets and all the asteroids at the same rate in a measurably finite length of time. XD Caveat: this would only make the gravity more realistic, but won't help with the manoeuvre.
the thing is the gravity in SE dosen't work as the gravity in our wolrd, because of that the slingshot efect dosent has a great efect in the vessel, no curvature, no slingshot
So Space Engineers theoretically had an error of 0.2% on the second test. There should have been no speed gain (as already explained by several people in the comments).
Not sure who was actually wondering this since orbital mechanics isn't really a thing (edit: in SE, I'm no flat earther lol)... Gravity assists only work thanks to the motion of the planets. SE planets don't move.
NOTE: I'm typing before seeing the video (watching now) and hearing the outcome. EDIT: Aaaaaand .... I see you understand the problem already. :) I don't think slingshots would work in SE, atleast not the speed change parts. As I understand how slingshooting to gain speed works, is that the craft takes into account the direction the planet is moving to add more speed to the craft. Slowing down could possibly work, but I think it probably won't. As for directional change, yes, if you come in fast enough you can change the direction. :)
I was a little worried for a moment that you misunderstood how the slingshot maneuver worked but then you addressed it at the end Although you can't gain speed you should still be able to use the slingshot maneuver in space engineers for changing trajectory at least I'm not great at science but your math with the ball and train seems wrong if the conductor sees the ball going away at 60 m/s and he is still traveling towards it at 50 m/s that would mean the ball is traveling 110 m/s... shouldn't the conductor see the ball traveling away at 10 m/s after bouncing?
Technically conservation of energy doesnt apply to gravity. Gravity is not an energy, per say, it is the result of space time curving around matter. Its like if you roll a ball down a hill. The ball is much faster than normal, but gravity caused it to change potential energy to kinetic. So you should expect to go a little faster in your space craft if you did this on a non revolving planet. Youre trading your potential energy (you sitting outside the gravity well) to kinetic (entering and leaving the gravity well)
It’s not ”SE being SE”, it’s the result of using Eulers method to calculate the new position and speed of objects together with having a fixed cut off point where the gravity ends. Had they used a runge-kutta method or some other method which preserves energy in the system and not put a hard limit on where the gravity ends there would have been a much smaller difference. But that’s just computationally wasteful in a game, so no game does that.
The transfer of energy from a train to a tennis ball is similar to the transfer of energy from a planet to a spacecraft. With the train, direct contact transfers the energy. With the planet, gravity transfers the energy.
@@AndrewmanGaming I thought it was a funny quote and failed to put a good emoji on it. :) It was hilarious in my head. I have a good understanding of slingshots (AKA gravity assists) after doing dozens of them in KSP. I hadn't considered the lack of orbital energy in Space Engineers. I don't think orbital mechanics would add anything to the game really. This was a pretty good explanation of gravity assist overall.
If the ball bounces at 60 m/s from the perspective of the train, shouldn't its speed from your perspective be 110 m/s? I find it easier to understand the slingshot maneuver by thinking of it as using a planet to bend your orbit a bit, rather than having to do so by accelerating or decelerating. The end result is the same.
Actually yeah, you're right. If the ball hits the train at 10m/s , the driver will see it coming and going at 60m/s and thus the ball will be moving at 110 m/s from the thrower's perspective. I forgot how to do elastic collisions there :)
slingshot would not work in SE by definition, because AFAIK Space engineers does not have moving planets. The thing driving this slingshot is the planet's momentum. Without it, in the ideal case you would have exactly the same speed escaping the planet's influence as you would have when you were approaching it.
@@AndrewmanGaming Well, you sir have convinced me to add said mod to my game, it's pretty awesome, as was the video. Keep up the amazing work & consider me subbed 👍
@@drag0nmare Thanks! Quick warning with speed mods, they cause weird behavior with things that hit the ground going too fast. Like drop pods will go through the ground 9/10 times.
Slingshot maneuvers work because they borrow momentum from the planetary body's orbit. Since SE planets are static, no effective slingshot is possible.
To speed up, you slingshot with the direction of the orbit, to slow down, you do the reverse.
Cool video! -DE
Thanks for the explanation DE! I probably could have asked you instead of doing all that research on how it works!
I would even add that gravity decrease at a linear (instead of quadratic in real life ?) pace in SE. So you probably can't do much realistic maneuvres.
Isn't he technically making a course change? He enters at one angle, and leaves at another, using no thrust energy for course correction. In that sense, gravity-assisted course change is absolutely possible in Space Engineers - just not speed correction, as you noted.
I think the reason you gained speed at the end of the slingshot was because you were using your gyroscopes to look around with the ship. This sometimes messes with the speed of the craft, especially with the dampers off.
Ahhh, that makes sense!
@@AndrewmanGaming but that you had to use the gyros is a interesting thing because it looks like even that is realistic in space engineers. if you orbit you wont change your facing direction with the orbit angel as i know.
@@apppelll3189 correct
Purely theoretically, slingshot maneuvers in space engineers do work. But not with planets. They do however, work as intended (Almost) with gravity generators that are moving. Tried it myself using a character first, later with artificial mass blocks.
You should've built an actual slingshot...
Great vid!
Haha that thought never crossed my mind! But it could go pretty well with another episode I'm planning so thx for the suggestion!
Great video with pretty accurate science!
The 1m/s+ speed difference in the game experiment is likely due to Space Engineers' planet non-homogeneous gravity well, created by rugged terrain. The terrain above acceleration phase may be slightly higher and closer to the trajectory of the space ship then the terrain above deceleration phase. thus, space ship received more gravitational force during acceleration, causes it gain a little bit more in final speed.
bullshit
The only type of gravity assist you can ever do in space engineers is the change in direction, since there's no orbital mechanics in the game (the planets don't orbit the Sun) and thus you can't increase/decrease speed relative to the Sun (which was the speed you were expecting to change)
The great thing about this maneuver is that you can change the direction of flight without the need for thrust. So it still makes sense to use it in space Engineers.
Let me clear abit about slingshot that "space people do". Its not gravity alone that you require to do slingshot ( gravity assist) its relative speed energy and gravity that planet transfers to your spacecraft when you slingshot behind the planet. If you go infront of planet your speed decreases so your speed energy transfers to the planets speed making planet go faster. Space engineers only have gravity on static planet which is why its not possible to gain speed. I might not be fully right but this is how i see it.
Bless is Kerbal Space Program for teaching us how gravity works in space 😂
You're basically right. The way I always look at it is, if the planet/moon/any other object with mass is stationary, you basically just fall into the gravity well and then use all that energy to go back up again. But if the planet is moving, you start falling down, but at the same time the planet and its gravity well is moving away from you, so you need to use less energy to get out than you got from falling.
It's basically what you said but for me personally looking at it with the concept of gravity wells is a lot more intuitive so I'm putting this down here.
11:43 Uses an F18 as a space craft.
If only we could.
😂
If you're average height or above, you couldn't even fit in the cockpit. I could, being a dismal 4'11"...
you can gain speed from slingshot manouvers in space engineers (I think ). but not with planets. Try it with spherical gravitationalgenerators that are movving fast and try to add something from their velocity
It could also be interesting to make an orbitting sattelite around a sph. gravity gen. And if he gets a signal he uses a little thrust pulse to initiate a slingshot manouver to get to the koordinates. That would take insane programming and physic knowledge but maybe somethink greate as a community project if the community gets bigger.
Next video try the action/reaction principle. Throw stuff from a spacecraft using different techniques and try to gain speed through that. Like irl in space if you throw a space you not only give this stone speed the stone also gives you speed. I hope u understand what I mean. That would be a great video and not as impossible as all them "dig out a whole planet" suggestions lol.
So many "dig a whole planet" suggestions and I technically already did that a few videos ago!!!
One important point is, that the spacecraft also takes away some of that energy from the planet to accelerate. Just like in your example with the train and the ball, the train would transfere a tiny bit of it's energy to the ball, but since the train is so massive compared to the ball, it's barely noticable.
Meaning that if you'd perform enough slingshot manuevers on the same planet (we're talking trillion of maneuvers with giant spacecrafts) you'd slow down the planets orbital speed. Or if you take a large stellar object and fling it into the same direction as you'd do for a slingshot maneuver, you'd disturb the planet's orbital speed immensely (Try it in Universe Sandbox). :)
This is true! It's crazy to think about but then everything in space is crazy. For instance, gravity as we know it exists in such a way that the gravity created by me is effecting (very insignificantly) every single star in every single galaxy in the universe!
Love this series
Definitely deserves more attention
How about how much weight can a small parachute stop? I've had small ships weight 500k+ coming through atmosphere at 350 and it stops instantly. If you put a parachute on a landing gear and attach it to a big ship, how much weight will it hold?
The power of Clang compels you!
(or compels your craft to gain a random number of metres-per-second for no obvious reason)
This would have been the perfect video to include a sponsor where you can learn stuff
"...... and if you'd like to learn more about space and gravity, SkillShare would be perfect for you!" If only the sponsors knew I exist :)
@@AndrewmanGaming Exactly! I have forgotten the name of the sponsor
As a KSP player, this game looks a bit intriguing. The game physics would probably make me cry tho. :D
The slingshot maneuvers use the gravitation, the rotation and the self-movement of the planet.
In Spaceengineer, a planet has only gravity.
Thus, only changes in direction would be possible but no acceleration or deceleration.
No all you need is gravity and it's called a gravity assist.
@@deltacx1059
Only gravity is a problem.
Because the object must re-use the extra kinetic energy it has received through the gravitational pull to move out of the gravitational field.
So there is no speed gain at the end.
The extra gain in swing-by maneuvers results from the transfer of a tiny fraction of the kinetic energy as well as the rotational energy of the planet.
With static planets without rotation and proper motion, no swing-by maneuver can be performed, but at most a change of direction.
It depends on how the game calculates it in real life sure but some games don't handle it like that
I like to think about gravity assists outside of the context of the planet.
If the spacecraft is fast enough that it whizzes behind the planet’s orbit without being captured, it will gain speed. If the planet is going left to right and the spacecraft comes in from below, throughout their entire interaction the spacecraft is being pulled to the right. It starts falling toward the planet but the planet is moving out of the way.
I subbed because I wanna see your tests give Marek Rosa a stroke when the SE community starts asking for realistic zero-g physics .... 🤣
That's a feature for Space Engineers 2!
Could you build a clang drive? I'd like to see one made by you. Really good explanation of the maneuver though.
I love how we have so many people in the comments explaining how gravity assists work and why they wouldnt work in SE by repeating the same information in the video
Shanee Bahera likely a knee jerk reaction about people misunderstanding rocket science.
You should have called this, Do gravity assisted maneuvers work.... I thought you were going to build an actual slingshot
It probably didn't help that I put an actual slingshot in the thumbnail. I've renamed the title to say Gravity Assist to be more clear.
@@AndrewmanGaming you serious?
No slingshoting without orbits.
It's not Kerbal Space Program
That sign tho! Liked.
Can you see how big you can make a working space craft
“Space people” probably use complicated and precise calculations that take months to complete and check, resulting in the absolute minimum possible variables and inaccuracies.
Just like we don’t usually train and learn years worth of engineering or piloting before we play this game, we don’t usually go through such calculations. We just make sure we have enough thrusters, and hope like hell that we don’t run out of fuel.
Meanwhile in Kerbal Space Program
Wait... so what if we make a ship that have a gravity generator with super high range and also moving?
In theory might work as a slingshot.Only in theory though.
Appearently it does according to the people in the comments.
You could still make use of the oberth effect if you fire your engines during the maneuver. Because your engine thrust is always the same but kinetic energy is proportional to the square of the velocity, your engines are actually more "powerful" at a higher speed, and you get more kinetic energy for the same amount of fuel. And you carry that extra energy when you leave the gravity well.
To make use of this, all you have to do is accelerate forwards (or backwards if you want to slow down) just before your altitude starts increasing again. Accelerating fowards by 10 m/s down there will net you a larger increase when you get back to deep space, and the same goes for braking.
That space ship looks very nice
"Clang energy"
Perfect
Good explanation of the science...good video.. :)
Remember that entry and exit angles are very much different in real slingshots. Exit angles are very shallow, whilst entry angles are steaper
I think that your explanation of the slingshot manuver is pretty good for people who dont know anything about it, but I would had like to see asterisc when simplifing it.
The thing is he said some wrong stuff, you don’t gain gravity or any of that, a gravity assist is done by gaining a little bit of kinetic orbital energy from the desired planet, and you trade some of your energy and the planet gives some of its energy to you, but you gain a lot more. You don’t gain energy from just gravity alone. This is also impossible to do in space engineers because to do a gravity assist, successfully, the planet needs to be orbiting. But planets in SE don’t orbit, nothing orbits other than some players who use the unlimited speed mod. “But the day and night cycle” no that’s just the sun being part of a skybox, there is no sun.
Haha well tbh I wasn't really simplifying it in the explanation. I explained just about as much as I know about it. Did I forget to mention some key aspects of the physics involved?
I'm pretty sure some slingshot maneuvers involve thrusting into the gravity well to increase speed or up the well to slow down.
Dream game: SE + KSP.
Nice job liked the vid and liked the simple animations deff helped to explain it
This never once crossed my mind to do this in SE. I wonder if after watching this can we get an ship to orbit in SE
12:00 DONT STAND ON THE TRACKS KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you so much, Andrew :-)
Good explanation...
Hey you should play Kerbal Space Program at least once
true, then he would learn what we space people do :D
Funny you should mention that! I have a few videos on the channel from awhile ago on KSP. Also I did a KSP stream on Twitch just a few days ago and I finally managed to orbit! KSP is pretty fun but also really complicated.
@@AndrewmanGaming true its quite hard to get into but once you do it gets really fun when you plan cool spacecrafts to have multiple stages to get into moons or planets and back
Like building space station that can fuel your spaceship at Earth orbit then you fly to another planet where you have another station waiting to refuel again for journey back after you land to planet and collect some science. of course need to send more fuel to those stations or you can go and mine ores and turn them into fuels.
@@TheAmethyz That does sound pretty cool!
Since SE planets don’t move a gravity assist isn’t possible, but you should test if the oberth effect works.
I just thought of a fun thing to test. How long can a ship be? If such an extremely long ship was to be made, how would gyro placement affect it? (does having gyros only in the back make it turn differently than in the center?) And how fast would you move if the control seat was on the end of the ship while it is turning?
That's an interesting idea! Maybe you could make a super fast turning ship with that!
I remember seeing a video a while back of someone trying to break space engineers with the unlimited speed mod. After a bunch of weird sh*t he decided to paste a black hole in front and to the right of his ship. After the game caught up his ship was moving away from the black in the opposite direction at the same rate of speed it was before.
Was that by any chance my video? I did something really similar a few videos ago and had the same effect!
jesus I was on my toe tips the whole time because I though he was gonna hit an asteroid xD
Great Video, such a great job
So then to get slingshotting to work; couldn't you have a gravity generator rotating like a tether ball and slingshot around that?
Hey man I know it's been over a year but do you think that you can revisit your orbiting a planet video would love to see you make a true orbiting satellite without any human intervention like you can launch it put it into orbit and it will stay there would love to see you try to do that pretty please
Slingshotting does not affect your velocity. It’s the same when it enters and leaves. What it does is change the direction you’re traveling in relation to the mass you were previously orbiting and depending upon which direction you slingshot it can either raise or lower your orbit. There’s more to it but yea
That is called a gravity assist
Dude. Good vid,
In the example the ball will go back to you at 110 m/s. 60 seen from the trains perspective plus 50 of the train speed.
Came for space engineers. Stayed for physics
Space Engineers BR map ?
And when will episode 12 of your let's play gonna release ?
I really should get back to that map lol. Ep 12 will probably be released on Thursday or Friday.
Neat ! I binged all episodes lol...
And It's been 1 month since the last BR stream. I really like your content compared to other SE youtubers, I feel like it's because you are speaking casually and normally like you would IRL (Not that I know you IRL lol) and that really puts me at ease and calms my nerves. I've been doing alot of things IRL and it stressing me out like crazy but thx to you I can actually relax. Anyway thank you so much for all this, I can't thank you enough.
I'll also buy the Tier 4 in patreon not long from now.
edit; typo
@@johnderat2652 0.0 No one has ever bought the tier 4! It would have me make a personalized drawing for you. For real though, thanks for the kind words! I'm glad these videos help you out. I'll try to keep being as casual as possible :)
Would have been awesome to put a start from and finish gps marker to see the advance of transfer
You can't slingshot since that requires planetary motion, but gravity assist maneuvers are totally possible since you can use the gravity of a planet to change your velocity vector. NASA's OSIRIS REX uses this type of gravity assist maneuver during it's mission. And in your video you should have taken note of your velocity vector as the best use of gravity assists is actually redirecting the course of your spacecraft. Thus the maneuver was a success
In order to use a sling shot, the planets have to be moving. In SE, the planets are in stationary fixed positions therefore no, you cant slingshot. It will change your direction but thats it.
Also 100ms is definitely not enough for a sling shot maneuver stock game.
100 m/s is the speed limit for all ships in the stock game
By the laws of physics it's impossible to slingshot and gain speed from a static body. The gravity experienced towards and away is equal. However, in saying this, losing weight on exit (i.e. burning fuel with boosters) allows a speed increase due to the reduced gravity on the lighter exit.
Is kerbal space program on disc
Try to make a clang propelled craft. I would like to see you try.
Space Engineers physics should be allowing a simulated gravity braking (shame, since an actual orbit based on gravity strength would have been fun)
Nice vid.
If u had put waypoints at start and finish, you could have calculated (using trigonometri) how big you deviation from the original course had been
the ball would be traveling at 110 m/s: 60 m/s relative to the train plus 50 m/s from the moving frame of refrence
Yesss, you're right. I made a mis-calculation there. Thanks for correcting!
Quick questions what are your specs And what is your editor
Specs: Ryzen 7 1800x, GTX 1070, 16Gb DDR4 RAM @ 2666 (I think), +other stuff
Editor: Adobe Premiere
@@AndrewmanGaming thanks
You gotta get closer to the planet
I know this is super old, but if the train operator sees the ball bounce off at 60m/sec, then to the thrower, it would be moving at 110m/sec (60 for the bounce plus 50 for the speed of the train). The train would slow down by the amount of energy needed to accelerate the ball that much, which is negligible for this exercise.
Oh yes, this is a good point. The ball would be moving much much faster for the thrower.
"Clang energy", hehe.
You could explain slingshot speed differences by simply saying that since the planet is moving, you spend more / less time gaining speed by dropping than losing it by flying back out, couldn't you?
Cool.
Can you build an artificial planet with gravity?
You forgot about artificial mass, could make a slingshot viable.
Technically it doesn’t lose all the gravity because while you are in the planets gravitational field you start gaining speed therefore when you exit you will pass the 2nd half of gravity much faster than you came in at so the gravity couldn’t pull back its original gravity fully back
Let's say you start entering the gravity with a speed of 10m/s. You gain speed so by the time you reach your halfway point, where you start leaving the gravity, your speed is at 50m/s. It might seem like you would leave the gravity much faster because now you're going quite a bit faster than before but you have to remember that the whole time you're leaving the gravity, your speed is decreasing. You come out of the gravity at the same 10 m/s that you started at!
If you want to try this out on your own, take a marble on a string. Let it lie at rest. Call this point the "midpoint" of the gravity. It's where your acceleration will go from positive to negative. Now raise the marble up on one side. Call this the point where you 'enter' the gravity. Release the marble. It will quickly gain speed as it falls toward that midpoint, but once it reaches that midpoint and starts 'leaving' the gravity, it will slow down until it reaches 0m/s at almost the same height as you dropped it from originally!
28 seconds in and i can say: no you can't, the planets do not move BUT the oberth effect should work.
for a gravity assist, the only way would be to have an artificial mass on the ship and passing next to an other ship that has some gravity generators (without colliding... probably need modded generators...) and is heavier and moving, so you do a fly by, that will change your speed ever so slightly.
well replying to my self... it might not work for the oberth effect... i have been playing for too long with the orbital mod installed and forgot there is no orbit in the game... so just pointing strait at is better than orbiting close to add more speed...
I think I know why you gained speed in the slingshot you did. You were travelling faster on the way out of the gravity than on the way in to it so the game logic says you lose less speed because you spent less time in the gravity field and lost less speed as a result
thats not how a slingshot maneuver works, you still need to thrust and the periapsis of the orbital arch, if you dont thrust you lose the same speed you gained when you leave
finally ! thx
no you dont have to use thrusters really depends on the final orbit you want to achieve. for example look at cassini the engine was only use for orbital insertions and lining it up with the next gravity assist
Thumbs up and reaction because ptoduction value of voyager
0:48 So a flyby.
A prediction before I see the end: you can't get a gravity assist from a SE planet because SE planets aren't orbiting anything, they are static objects pinned in space. Gravity assists work by robbing the planet of velocity thru the gravity interaction of it an a spacecraft in a solar reference frame... which doesn't exist in SE. The thing is that if you are approaching a planet from behind its solar orbit, it is "falling away" from you and you spend a (much) longer time accelerating toward it than you spend exiting its hill sphere, this slows the planet (by a ridiculously tiny ammount) and transfers that momentum to the spacecraft... in that solar reference frame.
But since SE dosent have a solar reference frame, I predict that your craft will have the same speed exiting the hill sphere (or planet's gravity) as it had entering; The planet is static, no momentum is transferred, and the planet pulls on the craft for the same intensities for the same duration going in as coming out.
!video nice ,still .well oh ,eh .up this brought already posters many that out turns ,Huh
Why’d you use rotors in the first place?
It.... looked cool! I wanted the solar panels to move like they do on the ISS :)
Yeah it did that was cool, just asking cause it messed up with speed
@@howdo8342 Yeah I should probably refrain from using Klang's instruments of destruction in builds that exist to showcase game physics XD
AndrewmanGaming lol Klang strikes again
yee
In SE gravity falls off at r^-7. Set the falloff in Sandbox.sbc to 2 to get r^-2, which it should be if SE were set in 3D space as the graphics suggest.
But of course the sun in SE is infinitely far away, and yet the same sun itself orbits all the planets and all the asteroids at the same rate in a measurably finite length of time. XD
Caveat: this would only make the gravity more realistic, but won't help with the manoeuvre.
the thing is the gravity in SE dosen't work as the gravity in our wolrd, because of that the slingshot efect dosent has a great efect in the vessel, no curvature, no slingshot
It’s not that, it’s that nothing orbits in SE, you need the planet to be orbiting in order to do a gravity assist
And then you die because you're standing in the middle of the tracks.
So Space Engineers theoretically had an error of 0.2% on the second test. There should have been no speed gain (as already explained by several people in the comments).
Not sure who was actually wondering this since orbital mechanics isn't really a thing (edit: in SE, I'm no flat earther lol)... Gravity assists only work thanks to the motion of the planets. SE planets don't move.
NOTE: I'm typing before seeing the video (watching now) and hearing the outcome.
EDIT: Aaaaaand .... I see you understand the problem already. :)
I don't think slingshots would work in SE, atleast not the speed change parts.
As I understand how slingshooting to gain speed works, is that the craft takes into account the direction the planet is moving to add more speed to the craft.
Slowing down could possibly work, but I think it probably won't.
As for directional change, yes, if you come in fast enough you can change the direction. :)
I was a little worried for a moment that you misunderstood how the slingshot maneuver worked but then you addressed it at the end
Although you can't gain speed you should still be able to use the slingshot maneuver in space engineers for changing trajectory at least
I'm not great at science but your math with the ball and train seems wrong if the conductor sees the ball going away at 60 m/s and he is still traveling towards it at 50 m/s that would mean the ball is traveling 110 m/s... shouldn't the conductor see the ball traveling away at 10 m/s after bouncing?
Technically conservation of energy doesnt apply to gravity. Gravity is not an energy, per say, it is the result of space time curving around matter. Its like if you roll a ball down a hill. The ball is much faster than normal, but gravity caused it to change potential energy to kinetic. So you should expect to go a little faster in your space craft if you did this on a non revolving planet. Youre trading your potential energy (you sitting outside the gravity well) to kinetic (entering and leaving the gravity well)
Can you make a bomb that destroys bunker?
It’s not ”SE being SE”, it’s the result of using Eulers method to calculate the new position and speed of objects together with having a fixed cut off point where the gravity ends.
Had they used a runge-kutta method or some other method which preserves energy in the system and not put a hard limit on where the gravity ends there would have been a much smaller difference. But that’s just computationally wasteful in a game, so no game does that.
Wow many Nasa workers in here...
you should go at 7.12 km/s in real life at 1500km, i dont know on space engineers
So, slingshot maneuvers are like getting hit by a train.
The transfer of energy from a train to a tennis ball is similar to the transfer of energy from a planet to a spacecraft. With the train, direct contact transfers the energy. With the planet, gravity transfers the energy.
@@AndrewmanGaming I thought it was a funny quote and failed to put a good emoji on it. :) It was hilarious in my head. I have a good understanding of slingshots (AKA gravity assists) after doing dozens of them in KSP. I hadn't considered the lack of orbital energy in Space Engineers. I don't think orbital mechanics would add anything to the game really. This was a pretty good explanation of gravity assist overall.
@@dustinandrews89019 Orbital mechanics would add atleast one thing to the game - lots and lots of LAGGGGG XD
If the ball bounces at 60 m/s from the perspective of the train, shouldn't its speed from your perspective be 110 m/s?
I find it easier to understand the slingshot maneuver by thinking of it as using a planet to bend your orbit a bit, rather than having to do so by accelerating or decelerating. The end result is the same.
Actually yeah, you're right. If the ball hits the train at 10m/s , the driver will see it coming and going at 60m/s and thus the ball will be moving at 110 m/s from the thrower's perspective. I forgot how to do elastic collisions there :)
Hey Andrew you should make a kerbal space program series
That's not a bad idea!
Dude, how many hours of Space Engineers do you have?
481 today :)
AndrewmanGaming oh my Buddha
slingshot would not work in SE by definition, because AFAIK Space engineers does not have moving planets. The thing driving this slingshot is the planet's momentum. Without it, in the ideal case you would have exactly the same speed escaping the planet's influence as you would have when you were approaching it.
Exactly
These would be good if you were trying to change direction in the game instead of just trying to go faster
I presume you're using the speed mod?
Yesss
@@AndrewmanGaming Well, you sir have convinced me to add said mod to my game, it's pretty awesome, as was the video. Keep up the amazing work & consider me subbed 👍
@@drag0nmare Thanks! Quick warning with speed mods, they cause weird behavior with things that hit the ground going too fast. Like drop pods will go through the ground 9/10 times.