30 Day Grip Training Experiment - 25,000 reps a week
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2024
- Have you heard of CARCing? 🤔 It's been around for decades in some form or another, but recently it has become really popular among a number of elite climbers and coaches. Could CARCing be the future?
You may have heard of ARC training, which is short for ‘Aerobic, Respiration and Capillarity’ training. It is to rock climbing what a Zone 2 run is to a mountaineer. It enables climbers to develop the base fitness that climbing performance relies on.
ARC training requires climbing for long periods of time on easy terrain which can be a mental challenge. The term CARCing was defined by Lattice coach Jonny Kydd after he started integrating his ARCing while on long car journeys to work on his project most weeks. This is why the ‘C’ was added, in his bid for efficiency and maximising performance, he swapped climbing practice for light grip training while in the car. 🚗
(⚠️ Please note that we would advise against any form of training whilst driving - see our disclaimer below ⚠️)
But CARCing, due to it being so far from rock climbing practice, is not well established as a form of training.
So, in typical Lattice Training fashion, we set about to devise an experiment to see if CARCing was truly worth the hype! In just 4 weeks, Lattice coach Josh Hadley did over 17 hours of CARCing to see if it improved his endurance… 100, 250 reps later the results are quite incredible. 😲
Will you be adding CARCing to your training routine?
0:43 What is Carcing
3:05 Why Carcing
4:25 My Experiment
5:35 My Testing
7:38 The Results
11:58 Should you Carc?
⚠️ DISCLAIMER: Please note that although we advocate the use of light grip training (and have adopted the term CARCing for this), we do not recommend or advise that you perform CARCing whilst driving any form of vehicle. The contents of this video are for informational purposes only. By watching this video, you agree that any actions you take as a result of the information or content provided are entirely at your own risk and Lattice Training Limited shall not be responsible for the loss, or damage, of or to any property or to any person arising from the same.
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A bit of extra context to how my endurance improved in these 4 weeks.
Day 1. My Critical Force was 31.4%. This is below the average score for 8a/5.13b which is 34%
Day 30. My Critical Force was 38.5%. This was above the average score for 8b/5.13d which is 38%
These numbers are personalised to my height and gender.
You're on the same Level as Agnus Kille with 38,9%. Go get him Tiger!
Well, and you have to match his 98,5% MVC :D
This also puts Stefanos 64,5% into perspective....
@@Miura.Powers Haha yeah. If only my fingers were that strong. I'm working on it 😂
I still can't believe Stefano's score. I'd like to test Séb Bouin too!
@@LatticeTraining It's a shame that you guys switched to the force plate for MVC, now i can't compare my self anymore :D
yeah, seb would be wild. Can you imagine him being around 40% and we all realize his technique is impeccable? :D
I'd like to know if it improved your deadhang time, but of course need two hands to verify
@@eman1989z you have his MVC, thats basicly deadhang.
I'm honored my desk grips made it into the video!
I love it😂
This is the kind of content we need.
I feel we need more context regarding how effective that increase is relative to other training methods.
Thank for the feedback. I was trying to keep it short where possible but a great point. I'll pin a comment that should add a bit more context to how much my critical force improved by!
If CARCing doesn't sound good what about something like edging? Since you are mimicking pulling on an edge for long periods of time without quite reaching that high intensity zone where you can't maintain.
sus
😂
This is a very good one imho. Another alternative I'd like to suggest would be "Hold Play".
im actively edging while watching this
😂😂😂
Might be good to note that you are talking about percentage _points_, increasing your CF from 31.4% to 38.5% is a 22.6% increase!
Glad I saw this comment, that was very misleading in the video
Now that’s a significant improvement
I am CARCing while watching this video
same
For the injury worries I always wonder how manual labour factors in to training like this. I've never seen a construction worker warm up their wrists and hands: we just showed up (hopefully sober), chugged a cup and a half of coffee with the morning cigarette and grabbed the the tools we needed for the day. Then it's 6-12 hours of laying bricks, drilling holes or tightening nuts. Repeat for 5 days a week, ~45 weeks a year, 30-ish years total with generally little to no finger injuries. Quite some messed up elbow, shoulder and hip joints though.
As for a name: call it barking. Barely Aerobic Resistance-training, Kinda.
Really interesting study and results! Thanks for the effort & great content
Cars are aid
clothes are aid
Haha- LFG! c’ARC’ing lyfe 💪. If anyone wants to hear more on this- check out my episode with Ollie from a while back. Thanks for donating your left forearm to science to this Josh!
Could you please tell me in which episode it appeared? Please leave a link
ruclips.net/video/ozWO0L1auSI/видео.htmlsi=3LhgKT5wXKqlzLRe
Interesting experiment and fun video, but there are some pretty big statistical issues (I also acknowledge some of the qualifications that were made):
Sample size of one - results aren't generalizable.
Only one measurement before and after for each test (as presented in video) - no account for variability (in arm strength, tiredness, injury, etc, etc).
No randomization or blinding - potential bias.
Using one arm as control - assumes both arms react the same.
Low statistical power - hard to detect real effects.
More participants and multiple measurements would improve reliability.
Sorry for being the fun police :(
This is what you would call a case study if it was done by real scientists.
The purpose is to cheaply and clearly demonstrate the basis for a hypothesis.
Using one side as control is a pretty common method in exercise science.
And the actual change observed would qualify as significant, all things considered.
"I now have a passionate hatred for this thing!"
Sounds like success to me! :)
Very interesting study, and nicely carried out.
I am carcing with my right hand since I was a teenager for about once or twice a day. it's noticeably stronger so I guess it works.
Bro
One part getting stronger, another part getting weaker. Sacrifices have to be made. 🫡
Awesome work as always, data driven, insight fueled... A thought on this one though...
I think this subject could use a healthy section on repetitive stress injury cause and prevention.
Really fun to see a little controlled experiment done like this with someone who has access to testing facilities
The beauty of actually arcing is getting in movement practice with it. So you get technique practice and endurance gains.
Agreed. Just not practical for everyone. As a new dad I only get to the gym 2x a week at the moment and I like to have a short board session when I go. But I'd like to prepare for sport climbing in the autumn and this method gives me hope.
glad theres a good study to back up my decision to avoid these things for my climbing career. ive had a lot of people suggest to me to check these kind of tools out, and ive always turned them away. ultimately, just like everything else, there is no short cut. to get better at the thing you gotta do the thing. goes with art, exercise, and day to day activities. if youre focused on getting better, noticing the things that are holding you back, and actively working on your weaknesses, youll get better. simple as
Are you referring to this video as the study? If so, how did this video back up your decision to avoid this method?
what is the study?
Soo well explained, cheers for quality video! Also would be very interesting to know if this helps with injury prevention in the fingers.
I took a hand trainer with me for a 2 week bus round trip. Got me so bad inflammation that I couldn’t boulder for 2 weeks. 😅
I’d also be interested in your power based measurements after having a power training phase, when the endurance training phase that had come before it included carcing, since the slower twitch fibers work to give the faster twitch fibers more endurance over the long run
I'm surprised you didn't see and effect of
"The Cross-Education Phenomenon" - Cross education is the process whereby training of one limb gives rise to enhancements in the performance of the opposite, untrained limb.
PET-ing, passive endurance training
wouldn't trust that from a cat
Now that one of your arms has a significantly higher critical force than the other, it would be interesting to try one of those 2-handed endurance tests on a hangboard and see the difference in feeling between your arms as you go. An instant comparison of what more critical force feels like!
Regarding the grip trainer being uncomfortable for long periods, I’ve found that using it backwards (fingers on the side your palm is intended to be on) significantly more comfortable, to the point I would say I have no discomfort over long periods :)
Yes I actually move it back to front and also upside down in each orientation, and with full hand or just fingers. I don't really get though why the 'standard' shape is as it is
Taping the handles is a game changer
The control hand also getting stronger might be a demonstration of the cross-education effect!
For people reading this review, it's okay, it's normal to feel lonely sometimes, if you're going through tough times, keep trying, but never give up, I wish you great success in your health, love, and happiness!
Carpal tunnel speedrun
100% lol, one way ticket to overuse city
Yep I had this concern. I don't recommend jumping in at 3 hours a week. And I think more appropriate tools probably exist. Rice bucket? But I think if you build up slowly anything is possible. I like the anecdote from a builder in the comments. My volume was nothing compared to what some builders, bricklayer or scaffolders do. Our grip is very adaptable.
Hey Josh, great video! I know you mentioned intensity quantification is difficult but for people who might want to try to replicate, is there some way you can quantify the amount of force you were squeezing against for an hour? Maybe the grip machine has a value for how much force is needed to close it?
I started on the very lowest setting on this devise. I think it might say 5kg but I doubt that is accurate. Because this is essentially threshold training, the intensity will be need to be very individual. It will matter how strong and how fit you are. And these can be quite independent. For example, Jonny Kydd mentioned at the beginning of the vid is WAY stronger than me. But his relative endurance was half what mine was. So I might be training at a higher resistance than him for the same relative outcome.
Something I noticed made a big difference was the cadence too. If I started to get a bit too pumped I just slowed down until it felt right. I think going of perceived intensity is best but it takes some awareness and experience that comes with years of training. A cheap digital feedback tool is the future for this stuff. But I personally don't want an edge, ergonomics is everything when you are using it for 60-90 minutes at time.
When I started climbing, my fingers looked really weak. I kind of came up with a similar concept, squeezing a grip trainer around 1000 times per day, most days, and noticed a significant improvement in my climbing. From climbing 5b to my first 6a top-ropes. Intuition says this is more of a thing that would benefit beginners, though.
i would say for beginners, go climbing and no training, maybee some pull ups. If you go from 5b to 6a only with your fingers then work on your technic and footwork and you will go from 6a to 6c lead. I got from 5b to 7b in two years without any Hangboard Session or anything. Now i'm at this point where i need to work for fingerstrenght etc.
let's call it pumping
I've used a gyro ball while watching tv with a similar idea in mind - might keep the loads more balanced across flexors, extensors, etc...way more enjoyable and comfortable than a gripper. Powerball Titan is a good one. So if you get tired of CARCing you can play with your powerballs 😆
I remember playing with one of these years ago. Are they not quite noisy? Maybe they have got better since then.
@@LatticeTraining This a is great point - they can be noisy when you rap them up to higher RPMs. This is a good argument for getting the Titan which is heavy and has a lot more resistance...staying below the lactate threshold with that one requires slower RPMs...also nicely built and I do remember it being noticeably more quite when I first upgraded to it from a prior one I had. I had a plastic one that eventually cracked...downside of metal one is it's not gonna be robust to dropping (bend and throw off balance etc). All that said, still gonna make some noise.
Judging by the drop in power, I'd guess that the main adaptation you achieved was converting a lot of fast twitch muscle fibers to slow twitch.
I've tried this in the past but found it to be hard to keep focus on over time. I've theorized that using a TENS unit on your forearm could have the same impact, but completely passively and no attention required after you apply the pads. If you can set the intensity to contract your forearm muscles correctly I think it could work? Feel free to try it on your other arm and even things back out! 🤣
I found taping the handles with climbing tape mostly solves the comfort thing
🙌
"Jorking it"
I've been jorking it for 17 hours
Fantastic video I’ve got to work out of town and I have to drive for 5 hours so I know what I’ll be doing while driving
I would like to see if the difficulty to compress the spring was harder, and you did say 5-10 mins at a stronger grip... Would this also train your contact strength, rate of force development etc.
After all we don't climb for an hour and we need the muscles to move more blood, so if you recreated a slightly more challenging grip what would the results of that look like?
I know this as "grease the groove" by repeatedly doing lower intensity motions
I prefer volume to hangboard training, but maybe Ive reached my limits without specific training or better technique. Usually end up injuring a finger or wrist whenever I try to push beyond v8 range. Im curious to give this a try, its easy to fit during the day.
I have some TheraPutty on my Desk for playing around and squeezing in calls and so on. THis is quite comfortable, as it is not a rigid training device. Maybe a more comfortable way for "Carcing"
Does it translate to climbing though is it effective i just started getting into armlifts and pinchblocks maybe i can add this too
Have you tried turning it spring facing you ? I find it more comfortable by fitting better in my palm. But in my case the friction becomes an issue quite early
I did try that. I swapped it around to all 4 orientations quite regularly to change up the position.
Grippers - at least some - are rated in terms of their difficulty, e.g., the popular Captains of Crush grippers, and a #1 COC gripper is rated at 140 pounds. Is the gripper you use rated in this way?
The type of gripper he has has a screw at the top and you can tighten or loosen the gripper to your preferred resistance level
Is there a way to gauge the statistical significance of these changes? I assume you take the same data for yourself semi regularly. How do the changes compare in general? Or perhaps sig levels aren't even relevant given how variable your training might be long-term?
I think we'd need multiple trials or multiple subjects to calculate statistical significance. Maybe we could determine effect size? But I think it would be misleading in a way, to suggest this is rigorously scientific.
I have done this test a fair amount. But it's quite a brutal test so I have gone over a year without testing. If it helps, the past couple of years I've hovered around the same level of endurance as my pre-test. With work life and being new Dad I've mostly bouldered and not been worried about getting fit. I've been a bit higher (CF) in the past, about 34%. But never as high as 38%. And my previous 34% peak was during a season of sport climbing.
why do you ask for statistical significance if you clearly don't fully understand what it means? Statistical "significance" is not the be all end all even in a scientific studies and it's based on an arbitrary threshold of one of several popular methods of statistical analysis
I have a question, was Josh said in the video that one should not pump on the forearm while doing the activity? Or I misunderstood?
Because I think continuous squeezing for an hour leads to pump
Yes that is correct. Do NOT get pumped. This is comparable to a runner going for a light/recover run.
difference of open hand and open crimp?
If you use a Ring, you can train both arms at the same time :)
But if you do 1h at the time, 3 times a week on your left arm. Doesn't that mean your forearms will be equal in strength and endurance?
I'd be curious if you could do the same type of intensity but with a rotating circuit of hand movements to avoid some of the repeptive stress...like have grippers, finger extensors, and a putty ball...I have had some irritation doing the carc'ing with the band is why I ask...or perhaps such a circuit might even yield more improved results it is relates to on the wall climbing as it is more varied...unfortunately/obviously adding more implements makes it less simple to fit into the week.
I agree more thought needs to go into the tools used. I actually want to try it again with a simple foam ball. Like a stress ball. It feels like it would support all the joints and load the hand evenly.
Can you test gooning next?
*pumping iron*
Like the arnie movie?
when i bought these things, when i started climbing, i felt like it made my sessions worse, because i somewhat overtrained. in my opinion these training devices doesn't transfer to any griptype, not even pinches. i also bought one with single finger "buttons". this was even worse, the fingers were quite in pain. hangboard still seems to be the king.
Yes totally agree. Not very useful for training climbing strength. But the intention here is to develop a dense capillary bed and more mitochondria, to enhance blood flow and aerobic energy production. This improves recovery and endurance. So you'd only likely notice a difference on long sport climbs or during rest periods.
Blood flow work
He chose the right arm for the controll arm because it was already ahead in strength. Now he is balanced..
The aim was not to build strength, it was to build endurance.
Me gustaria probarlo para ver y testar si hay mejoras o perdidas en mi y tener mas ejemplos. Si podrias comentarme como hacerlo un poco mas especifico. Gracias y que grandes video subis.
What I did was ~1 hour, 3x per week. Nothing more complex than that.
@@LatticeTraining perfecto sabes decirme la carga que tenia el aparato que utilizas. Es que como no se ingles, me entero poco y como lo subtitulos no son completamente perfecto pues... jajaja pero sino me enterado mal sigues con tus rutinas normales pero añadiendo esto verdad?
Y muchas gracias por contestar tan rapidoo!
I put an old sock around one side of the trainer, so my palm doesn't get red so easily.
I don't know how the RFD measurement works, but just looking at the data for the 'after' for the carcing arm it's completely flat in the start compared to the other ones and seems very similar once it starts rising. Could it be that the measurement started a bit too early? It looks to me like the whole graph should be shifted to the left.
Good spot. I did see this too and double checked. I believe it is just the graph that is wrong and the measurement was taken from the first upward inflection.
Can you do it again with grip holding instead of rapid squeezing?
Passive Aerobic Respiratory Capillary PARCing
Muscle endurance training
Seems like a lot of squeezing a grip. I have one of those orange 30kg grips. I squeeze it. I found it hard to start, now I can crush it. I wasn't even able to entertain pinching it closed and now am close. --++ Do you think having a manual job might help. Being on the tools all day?? That is like hours of low intensity work
It should just be called ''arcing", "hand triggering" or "pistol gripping". Can't use edging, which is already taken. Just look it up in the urban dictionary.
do edging next
New name proposal : Squeezemaxxing
How can you isolate the effect to this and not other training?
My right arm acted as the control and did zero Carcing. Other than the Carcing on my left, all other training remained the same. So the change in endurance in my left arm can fairly confidently be attributed to the Carcing. Can you think of any confounding variables?
@@LatticeTraining 1. The critical force test itself has variance on the day. It involves the shoulder to some degree so a simple difference in shoulder fatigue/strength could result in the delta.
2. The critical force test has variance like any other test. With only a few data points you have no idea if the improvement is within standard variance.
3. Climbers normally have differences in strength between sides like all other athletes. This can change especially if someone is at the mercy of a gym. It's entirely possible over the block that you biased a side for both strength and endurance oriented climbing.
4. It's possible that more volume prevented some sort of detraining in the test hand, which is different from improvement.
5. There's always the chance that the good result was simply due to random chance.
Ure supposed to use the curve part of the gripper on your palm not on the fingers
The thumbnail of this video is freaking me out. How is that dude's thumb bent like that??
@LatticeTraining why didn’t you use your first critical force test to know that you needed to stay under 31%bw (let’s say 20kg) and use a 20kg grip tool or something and just replicate the 5s on 3s off or what ever so you assure you’re staying right under the aerobic threshold??? And I get that it would be a pain but wouldn’t it be better to use like the edge with the load cell to measure the load and keep it under 30% bw??? Finally I think it should be called EDGING LOL
Also you are doing your critical force test as a yielding isometric but training concentrically. Maybe a better insight into the muscles would be a concentric critical force test. Just saying lol
This is anecdotal but I much preferred short concentric muscle actions. It feels like it gets the blood flowing better. And it's possible shear stress from blood flow is important for angiogenesis.
I am not sure any of the gripping devices are that accurate. My device said it was on 5kg resistance but I didn't believe it.
Also critical force would approximate lactate threshold 2, and I wanted to train below lactate threshold 1. Which the CF test can't determine. If I could determine LT1 I could use a tindeq to train at the right threshold but I would not be able to do it dog walking etc and it all becomes less practical.
@@LatticeTraining oh yeah very true!! Maybe you should device a test like runners do and get blood samples of your forearm to measure the LT1 under 2mmol of lactic acid! Or something! Thanks for your reply I love your content! Very insightful! ❤️
@@Negrurafresca This has actually been done. Unfortunately because the blood sample is taken from the capillary bed it only measures whole blood lactate. And if we isolate exercise to the forearm the change in lactate is quite small and hard to define a clear upwards inflection point i.e. the threshold. I think using NIRS might be helpful here? But it needs some research to validate the method in climbers. Maybe a future video!?!
You were holding it backwards, the inwards curve is ergonomically designed for your thumb and the straight bar keeps your fingers in alignment. It's over, re-do the whole damn thing :P
Haha! I did actually swap it facing both ways and upside down both ways. It kept things a bit more interesting while doing it for 60 mins.
@@LatticeTraining Try horizontal (like a motor bike) with your pinky next to the spring - most comfortable imo. Great vids btw.
PARCing, because you can do it while taking a walk in the park.
I hate the word carcing so much.
Im not really sure what the take away from this video is. This feels like saying if you do 16000 steps a day instead of 8000 your legs indurance will increase a bit, this feels intuitive.
Is this be similar to 'greasing the groove', a tactic used by people who go for pull-up and push-up quantity records?
I'm not sure to be honest. I've heard the GtG tactic can be used for max strength but at very low volume. And GtG is also used for skill training like hand stands. So I always thought GtG was about low volume, high frequency. For me the Carcing was about doing loads of volume at a frequency of 3x per week.
I wonder if the amount of time I spend playing guitar counts haha
Interesting! I'd imagine your hand on the fret board gets worked harder. Have you ever done an endurance test on each hand to see if there is a difference?
@@LatticeTraining well because of the techniques I happen to use playing really technical music I actually use every finger on both hands quite a lot! I haven't. What test(s) do you recommend?
1 hour at a time seems excessive. Would be interested in seeing your results if you had just done 20-30 mins, 3 times per week.
Yes I totally agree. I just jumped in that high to see if it would work but not to give advice. We see similar approaches in research because they want to show a large effect size or reach statistical significance. The research that follows should then try to answer how it can be made practical to everyday users or athletes. Like finding the minimum effective dose.
Wait, you hang board twice a day? You're not doing no-hang block training? You guys just put out video of you with the thumbnail throwing a hang board in the trash. (not literally, claro)
You're hangboarding 2 times a week? I thought you were into no hangs? Doesn't one of your videos show you throwing the hangboard I'm the trash? (Not literally I know)
Hey guys! I think you missed a 0 on the title
I think they may actually have just put the comma in the wrong spot
Thanks! Updated!
@@LatticeTraining Thanks for always making amaizing videos!
Since CARCing is particularly useful for people too BUSY to ARC on the wall I suggest BARCing as a better name 😂
who up carcing they shit rn?
Now do the same with your other hand. I wonder how much it would replicate the experiment.
Just my opinion here ~What i find misleading is the why a boulderer should want more low intensity endurance not movement specific while his energy systems will be mainly anaerobic. Improve aerobic capacity will for sure improve the way metabolites are expelled, but how such a low intensity repetetive movement can bring consistent changes on a trained person. When you said peripheral adaptations i don't get why you don't prioritize the type of fiber you recruit and the different results you may obtain training a lot fiber I instead of IIa IIx, specially in the long term.
I would add as well that rest is really crucial in this sport and considering 3 hours in 1 week are a lot for the average climber, if Carcing is put in between sessions the risk for injuries would increase a lot with not so much gaining.
To make everything simple my question is "if a 200m sprinter doesn't walk 3 hours a week thinking to improve his endurance, why a boulderer should carc?"
I don’t think your comparison of RFD is valid. No change should correspond to pulling 80% of your original max force not the new one
Anyone else up CARCing at 3am?
1 vote for "karqing"--same pronunciation but more enjoyable spelling
But that removes all the reasoning behind the name. It's ARCing in the car
@@average-team-kid Yes! Factual. But the original "carcing" name is intentionally silly, might as well have some fun with it.
Let's call it NAPping (Non-specific Aerobic Pinching or Non-specific Anecdotally Proven). Or BARCing (brain melting ARCing).
Lads, I found the perfect tool to train narrow pinches and marble pinches, I've decided I'll call it "edging"
ARMing = Adaptive Repetitive Motion
I call it losing. Because you do Lots Of Squeezes and also you lose your sanity.
Car-pulling. it has a ring to it.
Note: I would think many short maximal pulls on an immovable object (edge block or steering wheel) with long rests would have different results than 10s of thousands of reps.
now do the same with the rice bucket
Yes good call! I think this would work well. But maybe not as easy to take on a dog walk 😂
@@LatticeTraining Haha yeah time to suffer even more. Its kind of restricting its true
Maybe the increase in strength could be to do with the carcing acting as a bit of active recovery?
Possibly. But I am not training that hard at the moment. Being a new dad means less time in the gym. A similar hypothesis could be better fitness means faster recovery from the strength training I was going. So better quality training overall.