Tokyopop vs its Original English Language Manga Creators
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
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Thanks so much for your patience for this video! Originally, I was hoping to get it done in the middle of January, but it just kept hitting so many roadblocks that I ended up having to delay it twice! I think the end product is worth it though. A LOT more work ended up going into this video than I originally thought there'd be--more than in my first Tokyopop video, even.
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#tokyopop #manga #mistakesweremade
"Wow this contract sucks." "Shut up, at least we're telling them in advance this time."
"And it's fair. Everyone gets the same contract.......so HA!"
I like how my Librarian calls manga, "anime books"
that's...... fair
where is the lie tho
I volunteer at a bookfair (where most of the volunteers are retirees) and one of the sorters came up to my section leader with the graphic novel Amulet (which happens to have a ghibli inspired style) and said "Look Penny, Scholastic Anime" in the most disbelieving voice. It was beautiful
I mean their not wrong
Well you can't really argue with that
Oh wow, this was a blast from the past 😆! I was one of the winners from the 2nd RSOM UK contest. At the time I was in my final year of university and getting a manga contract was my absolute dream. I would have signed any contract regardless of how terrible it was just for the "honour" of being published by TP. I pitched a 3-book series but it ended up not going anywhere, and I was offered the opportunity of drawing a single page fanart for Princess Ai instead. That would come out in a fan anthology (I'm fuzzy on the details now but I think it was a compilation of short stories by various OEL artists using Princess AI characters). I was over the moon as even a piece of fanart meant I officially had done business with TP which was the holy grail for an aspiring artist. I bought & read all the PA books and created a chibi fanart featuring almost every character in funny, contextually correct situations. I sent the sketch over for approval and...heard nothing back ever again. Looking back, I'm quite touched at my own naivety because at the time I was deliriously happy to have contact with editors from TP. I had no concept of money and would have gladly signed for $20 a page. Long story short, I shelved my dream of becoming a manga artist and became a graphic designer. Many years later I started posting DIY videos on RUclips for fun and that actually turned into a full-time job. I've also learned a lot about business throughout the years and in hindsight totally aghast at the mess that was TP. Being a RUclipsr completely changed the way I view my time and how much value I need to put on my intellectual property. Though personally, I still look back with nostalgia at those pitifully carefree and naive years of my life 😂
EDIT: Ohhh you're Anna!! I think we must've met each other back in the days at some London Expo or comic con!
Alas, I'm not Anna; I'm Kennedy, and I've never been to London Comic Con. Still, your story is really interesting--thanks for sharing!
As someone who charges pretty cheap for single illustration commissions hearing that tokyopop paid $20 per finished comic page hurt my whole soul.
I have no idea what the pay normally is for illustrating a comic, and to me $20 for a page sounds reasonable. Can you explain why this is so cheap? Does one page take a whole day to do?
@@sprint7412 say a chapter is 30 pages long. That's $600 for a chapter. Say a volume has around 5 chapters, so that's $3,000 for a volume. That's... not a lot of money to live on. Most professional manga artists in Japan are doing a chapter a month (or shorter chapters weekly). For artists, this is their livelihood. Creating art takes time and effort and artists should be payed a livable wage, just like everyone else.
Megan Evans also, say, a page of comics has 8 panels. That is 8 itty bitty illustrations with rendered characters and backgrounds. Getting only 20$ for 8 illustrations is atrocious, even if you can cut corners here and there.
@@AttackOnAlchemist Thanks for explaining. How many hours does it normally take to finish one page? I guess it depends on what's on the page.
Yeah that's an insultingly low amount of money. I draw comics myself - I wouldn't even consider any less than $100 per page, which I think is on the cheap side.
It's kinda weird hearing people say that Tokyo Pop is dead when you're German and every second manga that comes out has their name on them
So that's why on Amazon most mangas that you can't even find translated are always either in French or German.
Here in Italy the old Tokyopop publishing partner (flashbooks) now publishes mostly Shojo and Boy's Love stuff.
Ah, yes, I remember the Bizenghast mini-scandal with the rant about inaccurate cosplayers on the back inside cover. Hearing that the editors put it into the book unauthorized does not surprise me.
Anybody have a link to that? I would love to see that fiasco
I seriously love your work. It's so nostalgic to me, and you seriously give us such detail. I would love it if you might consider doing a series on the changes we're seeing in the styles and receptions of anime these days. I think back to so many of the classics we've had, and how there haven't been as many stand out or stand alone series that have really broken the mold or become a classic and and standard. Obviously a gem like "Cowboy Bebop" isn't going to be something that happens every day. But the overall themes of so many animes that seem to become mainstream seems so different from things we used to see in the early 2000s.
Pretty sure a lot of that research would involve a lot of studying into the history of contemporary Japan. Evangelion alone requires a huge understanding of the so-called "Lost Generation" during the 90s when the bubble economy had long popped, and that's the most famous example.
Not to mention the differences in level of technology between different periods.
Some of it is the tastes of the prime demographics being different. And some of it is the need to have works that are easy to monetize because the economy is still in the muck for many (not quite terrible, but not quite good enough to splurge like the late 80s).
As much as i like a lot of early 2000s manga and anime i wouldn't call them classics, now go back to the 80s and early 90s that's where most of the classics are from GTO, Jojo's Ghost in the shell, Yuyu Hakusho, Dragon Ball Z, Gundam, Akira, Beserk, Rouni Kenshin. Then again they didn't used to export the ones that weren't good.
I almost got a job with Tokyopop. I was going through the process, and even had an editor looking through my work-- and then it crashed. That was a time
Wow. Well, in a way I guess it ended being for the better now that we know how they were handling other creators' works.
I'm completely unfamiliar with these topics (TokyoPop, mid-00's manga, etc.) and still find these mini-docs fascinating. You've got a talent!
Every time that Devil's Candy image comes up I can't help but stare at the clothespin. Ow.
Ikr
I took a while to notice the clothes pin, cause I was looking at the ears, a logical place for pins.
Then I saw it, and... Why? Why is it there? I don't understand.....
She's probably a zombie, but still... Ouch.
I keep clutching my boob when I see it
Wow, I’d heard about some controversies with TokyoPop before, but I didn’t expect this! How shameful. Thanks for the video, it’s been enlightening!
Tbh the comment was from an editor and not LeGrow, who is a costume designer. Apparently she was really upset bc she didnt want fan to be discouraged from cosplaying her characters. Tbh Marty was such a sweetheart to her fans. :c so underappreciated
*takes long drag from cigarette* Manga pilot program? Now that's a name I haven't heard in years.
*sips monster zero ultra* those Tokyopop left-to-right manga volumes...they don't make 'em like they used to back in the 90s.
Stu levy flat out telling people no then saying he’s open to talking to people. Glad devils candy creator was like nah and didn’t sign their soul
Ironic.
Oof, that explains why my library only ever had the first volumes of all the American Tokyopop manga series available when I went there. :/
Kurt Cobain was married to Courtney Love until his death, I think the term for that is his widow rather than his ex-wife. Ex-wife implied they divorced before he died, they did not.
Great video anyway! Love you're 'history of the downfall' videos!
OH
Lmao I thought they divorced due to that wording
“There was so much backlash, Polygon wrote an article about that.” Hilariously brilliant.
^ cyberweasel, they were one of the few gaming websites to really speak out against gamergate, which made them a punching bag - there were also a few odd video editing choices like an infamously poorly done Doom 2016 video that those people used to affirm those negative biases. A lot of that negativity has died out since 2015 but the memes are still around. I'm rather fond of quite a few Polygon series and contributors, and was even back then, fwiw
Thank you for taking the time to wrap a nice little bow on my point I was making
@@gregorysteffensen3279 Amazing how in 2020 there are still some die-hard GG defenders, isn't it
@@ShjadeNexayre Gamergate is still felt in other consumer revolts in modern times. That's why so many people defend Gamergate, even though the gamers' part of the fight is done.
@@Code7Unltd Gamergate is still felt in diapers everywhere, being the messy shit it is.
I am seriously impressed with the amount of research you put into these videos. Finding a pattern and establishing three points that generated a slow burn of hate would take serious engagement with the material and I find that impressive, Also was that 428 soundtrack I heard in the background?
Hell yea it was. I love 428
"Half a copyright" sounds kinda... under-specified, and it sounds like the exact kind of legally vague term used to hide the fact that they probably just own 100% of it. You actually *can* separate copyright, but it's not a "half". Copyright owners can grant licensing contracts to other people that are limited by time, activity, medium, region, language, or some combination of those criterion. Those licensing contracts can also be exclusive, which means that you can't license or use those same rights to another party while the first license is still active.
Most likely, the Tokyopop OELM contract consisted of an exclusive license of all rights held in the copyright and trademark of the work. This is legally indistinguishable from copyright assignment, which means the OELM creators own nothing. They wouldn't even have standing to independently sue someone pirating their work, as per the Rightshaven decision you don't get standing unless you actually have ownership. They'd be legally identical to, say, someone who was hired to write a comic book for Tokyopop as an employee rather than on a per-page basis.
(Also, who the fuck pays *per page* - even if the rate is good you are ultimately paying for volume, not content.)
Alternatively, if multiple authors work on the same project, and their contributions are not legally separable, that project becomes a "joint work". Joint work authors don't have "half a copyright" either, though - all the creators have all of the rights. This also means that exclusive licensing actually requires the consent of all joint authors, which is why most people don't actually use joint ownership. For example, if the OELM creators were joint authors with Tokyopop, then they would have the ability to independently exploit the same work separately; and Tokyopop would need their consent to exclusively sublicense the work. This sounds way too generous for the Tokyopop OELM program.
At least this happened before Twitter. Can you imagine this happening now? They got off real easy
Oh hey, ad at the end of the video. nice. On that note The Devil's Candy creator DODGED A BULLET there.
".....we had low expectations for you,but holy..."
Red,just the way you said that made me laugh so hard.😆
Holy shit, that "pact" might just be the worst contract I've ever seen. It's a bizarre mix of careless language and weasel words clearly meant to prey on young creators desperate to get into the industry. Contracts are boring and legalese is a pain, so the key should be to use consistent proper nouns and cull extraneous prose. Let's not even get started on the pay: $20 per page is not even remotely livable and is below even a simple piece commissioned piece done in an online artist's spare time.
The bit on moral rights is just *so* fucking scummy. "We want to do business with you under the terms in this pact, not some fancy french idea" is the kind of sentence that makes me want to drive to someone's house and punch them in the face.
I remember wanting to enter the Rising stars contest as a teen, but I got swamped with school and had never written a comic let alone a manga before. So I never entered.
drawnseeker same.
I entered, didn't win, but got offered a job by Tokyopop after highschool. Sadly they were very unorganized and I had to quit after awhile. Still, I appreciate it for the experience to understand more about publishing, and even to see the unfortunate side of things early on.
I wanted to enter too. I'm glad I didn't. I wasn't ready anyway plus it probably would have been harder for me to do so since I was also in high school at the time.
@@peachbun Wow. Not everyone got that kind of chance to see how they were behind the scenes. At least it was a learning experience for your part. Let's hope history doesn't repeat itself in any way, be it through Tokyopop or anywhere else.
@@honeybnoir824 Unfortunately I read from Queeniechan ( The Dreaming ) that things have gotten worse with contracts, publishers wanting more for themselves. She commented on this video. An organization I worked for not too long ago decided to stop giving artists royalties for their work and only do contracts where they sign over all the rights. Kind of sad, since making it as an artist is already hard enough.
Sounds like Stu didn't really care about comics at all, despite being the thing that made them money.
Stuart was more focused on getting into DJing for a time (hence the "Milky" name) and only dubbed anime for televison (mostly cablecasters, barring Showtime getting "Great Teacher Onizuka"), striking gold with Rave Master (yeah, remember that?) when it was on the Cartoon Network before moving to Syfy in the US (Cartoon Network would complete the entire run in the UK).
Rave Master's video release was the typical "volume" format at retail (and Tokyopop's standard "three-volume" format going there, too) before being compiled as a $40 Dub-only (I assume that the dub was too heavily edited for the Japanese video) DVD-R set by CreateSpace in 2010 (I wonder if anyone has that?).
Man there really could be a while documentary on Stu and what a weirdo and terrible business man he was.
I'm still baffled how he wasn't able to get Initial D on American TV. it was a sleeper hit amongst car enthusiasts, and it's not like Speedvision had an abundance of original programming either, fuck they even aired Speed Racer at one point, Initial D would've been a nice companion series.
@@PandaXs1 Street Fury was a show about cars as well, so the choice of G4 running it was even more baffling, but they were a subpar Spike clone (at least in the Americas) by that point. Initial D could've been there if Comcast actually decided to get it for G4.
Also, Speed Racer had the nostalgia of baby boomers and GenXers (read: most automotive enthusiasts in America), so Speed Racer was a better bet than Initial D.
@@jsc315 It takes extreme incompetence to mess up when you have powerful connections to big brands, but Stuart did it somehow. Fast forward to now, then you can see that every comic publisher is acting like Tokyopop was at this point.
@@Code7Unltd I guess that tracks. I never did like Speed that much, the only thing I did like was their WRC coverage (which only happened late at night lol). it still baffles me that they didn't try to give at least the bare minimum effort to appeal to the millenial market, y'know the young people who're easily impressed and looking into buying their first car?
Peach Fuzz and Bizenghast were cool, but I'll never forget that one time Tokyopop adapted Warrior Cats. Yes, really.
Ah yes the warriors "manga" which really were just graphic novels, now that was the time to be a fan.
There’s actually a new one coming out this year. The whole thing is strange. Rise of Scourge and Tigerstar and Sasha I think still have their copyright owned by Tokyopop, as there’s never been a rerelease, but the rest of them have full colour versions under the Harper brand.
Yeah A Shadow in Riverclan I think it was called, also its not really surprising that Tigerstar and Sasha will most likely not get a full color release thanks to the art not being exactly pleasant to look at lmao. Although seeing a Rise of Scourge color one may finally get people to stop screaming about his collar
I still can't believe Sushi Girl was ever greenlit.
Talk about a blast from the past! I had a bunch of those back when I was really into Warriors. I was always confused why they were called "manga" since I had several series of actual manga and they were nothing alike. I sold most of them years ago, but held onto my copy of The Rise of Scourge. I'm just a sucker for backstories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I honestly wouldn't mind seeing a full color version of it one day.
Oddly enough, I never minded the art in Tigerstar and Sasha, it was the Graystripe series I really didn't like the artwork for. I just didn't like how the cats looked with those... eyebrow bushes.
Gosh, as a 13-year old who was completely unplugged from ANY manga scene when I was deep in that 'phase', I always assumed Peach Fuzz was weird and niche. Never realised how big it was. Neat!
lmao, that's my college. Hey SCAD. Nice to see they've always been as hilariously mismanaged and weird as it has been while I'm here.
Imagine being so unaware of your company’s bad practices that you accidentally expose a massive problem in the manga industry
Loved the video as always! Thanks so much for your work in archiving this stuff, it really means a lot ❤️
Back in the day I was one of the few people trying to put a word of caution out on forums against Tokyopop's takeover of the industry. It was like, yeah I know we all like the fast, cheap manga after years of putting up with manga that was slow to release, art flopped, and over-edited or censored but maybe it's not a great idea for one company to have over 50% of the market share. It seemed like all they were concerned about was turning over the largest quantity of volumes as cheaply as possible without regard for quality of product or fairness to their employees and creators. When Rising Stars of Manga hit it was like a bomb went off and everyone was freaking out about the "amazing opportunity" it presented. I'm disappointed but completely not surprised that it turned out to be a shitshow.
You basically predicted Crunchyroll LOL
Imagine domain squatting, but with unfinished comic book series instead of domain names.
Yeah that's what corporations intended when they bribed Congress to extend copyrights to just shy of a century. A person will have died but then but a corporation could outlast them and that's enough to keep these works stolen
If copyright lasted as they were supposed these works would be free by now. Back in the day like mark twain days it lasted 14 and that was enough for everyone (except twain who wanted it to last forever, fool)
@@RoyalKnightVIII Or just abolish copyright altogether, but you do you.
@@OttoOG3 Cobyright does have a purpose, say in a case where you made a book, someone copy and pasted your book but selled at as their own. That would be case to you Cobyright for. But of course I am not an expert, and the big company have been misusing it forever.
@@helloill672 Go watch "The Golden Calf Vol. 2" and maybe I'll reconsider.
That book store that you show a lot, it looks magical. I never see manga older than a few years old in stores. Sometimes I see older ones in used book stores, but manga is so rare in those.
Try to see if a bookoff opens near you. It’s a Japanese bookstore chain that is recently spreading through America and has a lot of cheap manga, books, comics, and even merch!
Closest one is a whole state away. Never gonna go to one then. Probably for the best, I'd be even more broke. XD
Oh god Tokyopop. I still have all my Kingdom Hearts Manga from them. What a blast from the past.
Every second manga i have is from them
I practically lived in the B&N manga section for most of the 2000s. It says a lot that I don't recognize most of the series brought up in this video.
As someone from a German speaking country it is so interesting to hear about this. Before you did your last video on Tokyopop I didn't know there where any problems going on with them.
I get the impression Tokyopop US and Tokyopop Germany ended up being fairly separate. You had a much better TP than we did, and I'm jealous of some of the series that got fully released there but not here ^^
I remember Princess Ai! They'd post daily strips of it in the Boston Globe for a few years when I was in high school
I remember that as well, come to think of it i think it stopped appearing in the Boston Globe around 08 or 09
@@smarshallmaverick Yeah. I think there was another one about a vampire slayer or something, too
Peach fuzz was published in the wisconsin state journal for a time.
Woah I thought that was a figment of my imagination
@@distance7721 Maybe it was Van Van Hunter?
Great, informative video per usual Kennedy. As an English speaking manga reader it's really disappointing to hear about how greedy and evil TokyoPop was considering they are a huge reason behind the current popularity of manga in the western world.
Freakin' loving these videos.
Growing up as a teen during the 2000's, I loved reading the manga Tokyopop published back then (only Japanese series; mainly 2 volumes of Sailor Moon and some Fruits Basket along with other series from Natsuki Takaya). After deciding on wanting to be a manga artist, I definitely considered Tokyopop as an option for a publisher to consider since there weren't much of any publishers that accepted manga that wasn't from Japan. I ended up not doing so because I knew I wasn't ready as an artist or writer to submit anything.
Now knowing more how Tokyopop was really handling all those creators, I'm so glad I ended up never even trying to get anything published through them. I now know that I need to be careful about my rights as a creator as well as making sure I understand the terms and conditions of a contract of a publisher. Accepting any contracts like what Tokyopop did in the past is something I would have to make sure I need to watch out for.
Princess Ai also had a TV commercial. I think it was the only TV commercial for a comic book since GI Joe in 1982. (Spawn in the early 90s was more for the toys which came with promo comics.)
I remember getting the first volume of the Tokyopop edition of Kingdom Hearts back when I was ten, and I also used to browse their site for a while (anime and manga in general were still kinda hard to access in the UK back in 2006/7), so seeing the archived version of it brought back a lot of memories. I mean, I won't deny that the US division was scummy as hell (I don't know any stories about the UK division despite being a Brit), but I still can't help but feel nostalgia for the company because they introduced me to manga.
The German division is still going strong today, and I think they have a much better reputation than the US division. (Or at least, I've never heard any bad stories about them). I went to Berlin in the summer of 2018, and I stopped by a geek shop in a shopping center which sold manga - most if not all of the titles were published by German Tokyopop. Does anyone here think that Tokyopop could have survived in some form if the German division had somehow bought out the rest of the company?
If the German division had a better head, then it seems likely the massive bad PR could've been avoided. Less overreaching on projects + not driving away talent would at least give it a fighting chance.
I remember loving Bizenghast as a young person and getting really frustrated that there only seemed to be 3 issues out and never any more.
I would go to B. Dalton every month to see if there was a new Bizenghast (I didn't know when they would be released). They usually only had one copy of any given volume, and if it was the new one, they wouldn't have it for long because I always bought it. I had to buy volume 7 from amazon, and I _still_ don't know how the series ended!
Silburific 17 you can now find volume 8 online, I think. I have 1-7, the art/sticker binder AND the novel. I really liked the series and was ultra pissed when tp went down the drain. Heh pun not intended but fully embraced.
*Courtney Love made an original english manga*
Must... resist... the urge... to cover Hollaback Girl/Starfuckers, Inc./Heart-Shaped Box/ANY Courtney Diss Track....
Ah, screw it.
_Hey! Wait! I've got a new complaint~_
7:44 I'm currently going to SCAD and I feel really self conscious at the moment. At least I didn't go when this happened.
I kinda want a whole video on that courtney love manga
I think that I want to review it sometime. Because actually it was... not very good... It was like... Reading an angry/depressed high schooler's fanfic... And I was in high school when I read it.
I would love to see an honest review of Princess Ai. I was a high school grad working at Books A Million when Princess Ai dropped, and it was so heavily marketed that up til that point I didn’t see any other OELM titles given similar treatment. As others mentioned, beautiful artwork but terrible story.
That footage of Stu Levy in that otaku show made me let out a loud "OOF." He even looks scummy.
Btw I remember making fun of Princess Ai back when it ran. Never picked it up... and I'm still uninterested. Though I do recall loving Drama Con. Just got some memories of being in middle school and trading manga with friends. Drama Con was everyone's favorite at the time.
I'm SO GLAD you mentioned Princess Ai because I never hear anyone talk about it and it has been haunting me for years
So put Courtney love on the list with Stan lee and Samuel L Jackson as American celebrities trying their hand in manga or anime
Avril Lavigne too but we don't talk about that
@@vineshgujral686 Can't we though? I need to know.
Stan Lee worked with the creator of Shaman King on Ultimo that was pretty decent.
@Black Chandelier Mirage still upset we never got that second season of heroman :/
@@dr.velious5411 I never read it personally, but the Avril Lavigne manga has art done by one of my favorite artists, Camilla D'errico.
These are always entertaining videos. I'm learning what happened to the anime/manga side of my childhood.
It imploded on itself.
Hoo boy, I entered no less than three Rising Stars competitions back in the 2000s and boy am I glad I didn't win a single one.
(I am still working toward drawing manga full time tho :3)
@Jumpsuit No offense but
Really, what did you gain from saying that? I'm not mad, I just really am curious.
I'm sorry for whatever happened to you in your life to make you say that to someone you don't know, but I hope things get better for you
One struggling artist to another, I'm rooting for you. The fight is long, so cherish every victory you get.
@@devanmuse Thank you! That really does mean a lot ;v;
You get out there and give your very best, too :D
@@HybridAngelZero He probably didn't mean it as an insult, is really REALLY hard to be successful in the manga industry if you are not japanese, even if your drawings and writing are really good it won't change anything at all, personally, i have never heard of a succesful manga artist that is not asian.
That's why you probably won't become a mangaka, i would like to be one too (and many other people want to), but i'm just telling what i have seen and heard, maybe i'm wrong tho, but i doubt it.
But hey, you could become a successful comic/webcomic artist with a manga style you know-
@@idk-un3ty I tend to use the term manga and comic interchangeably. I'm not saying I'll be in a Japanese magazine, but if I could make a living on something like say... Line Webtoon or something, that's still being a "successful manga artist" to me. I just want to create sequential, illustrated stories that can make people happy.
However, Shonen Jump has opened up their contests to multiple languages including English, and are taking international submissions, so who knows? :D
Are you gonna talk about the rise and fall of Borders Books
The 18 dislikes are Stu Levy and the Tokyopop gang themselves.
Oh boy, Princess Ai... It was the first manga series I ever bought, during a time in which a now prolific alternative manga publisher here from Brazil was being founded and made a deal to release a lot of TokyoPop titles. I think it's not just that Courtney Love wrote a manga, the worst part is that it's a fictionalized version of her life story where she is an alien demon princess who skyrockets to fame because she's just soooo good, and then a lot of things go wrong. Well, at least the art was pretty good.
Hey! At least someone remembers it the same as I do! And actually the artist for the series has done a lot of things! Most famously they created Nana! So yes. The art was good. But I remember thinking that the story was garbage.
@@wakawakatakeover Ai Yazawa actually just did the character design for Princess Ai, the actual manga was illustrated by Misaho Kujiradou :^)
Ah, TokyoPop OELM, Cliff Hangers R' Us.
Ah Tokyopop, still publishing some favourite mangas, good to be a german speaker
I thought I was clicking on the other Tokyopop video which could've shown up in my recommended. This is a welcome surprise.
UGH! I remember that Courtney Love crap comic. Talk about your vanity projects. Damn thing looked like EVERY art student's anime fan project, but without the heart and soul behind it. I'm NO fan of hers by any means, even then, and it just came off as a self serving "I'm not in reality a shitty person" screed to me. It reminds me of that rant Homer Simpson had about celebrities. "Let us normal people write a terrible children's book," or something like that. Of course, I was also kinda bitter at the time that the anime series I really liked weren't getting much traction, and I was never quite a fan of the bishojou style. Wacky anime really didn't have much of an audience in the US until much later.
Just because Courtney Love made a manga doesn't mean that it was any good. I remember reading it as a teen, and I was infuriated at how bad it was. Then again I didn't know who she was back then and still only peripherally know who she is. I can respect the insight and point of view that she brings to the story... But it still reads like a bad fanfiction.
I loved Princess Ai (and still do). Yeah, it's bad- it reads like it was written by a 12 year old about her self insert... which is exactly why 14 year old me loved it. Ai is such a spoiled, stuck up bitch, and I would despise any other character that was written that way, but it's one of those guilty pleasures. And I love the way Misaho Kujiradou drew wings.
I remember when this happened because I was considering submitting to them and then saw the chaos of the details on deviantart and gaia online. Boy what a mess.
absolutely amazing video kennnedy you have perfectly compacted the entire dumpsterfire of tokyopop into one amazing video GG thank you for all your hard work rest assure this was well worth the wait :D
*Sees TokyoPop posting a contest for new manga*
Ah shit. Here we got again. *face palm*
I bet Princess Ai didn't have any issues with editing, probably because the founder of the company was one of the co-writers
Oh god I remember Peach Fuzz. I know it because it was also translated to Finnish. I didn't know it was an original englih manga from Tokyopop.
Considering how many creators TokyoPop screwed over, many of whom have since gained their own footholds in the comics industry since, it is a wonder they don't seek each other out to present Stu Levy with a big fat Class Action Lawsuit. As for any issue that they may have taking on TokyoPop... well the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund exists for a reason.
From the perspective of someone who lives in a country where manga (and anime) is a HUGE deal because it's one of the biggest consumers of anything and everything Japanese (France, I mean France). The trials and dick-tripping tribulations of TokyoPop from it's inception, have always looked like a fucking nightmare.
The only way I can describe it, is that it resembles the bumbling uselessness of Panini France's manga division. It's one of the companies that doesn't advertise at all, so lots of it's series tank and those that work are generally working because they're sailing on the coattails of a successful anime. For example: they'll consistently re-edit series like Tenjo Tenge, Vampire Knight, etc. But will cancel LOADS of other series like Dogs Bullets and Carnage, Saiyuki, Demon Slayer, etc. The latter which they're now desperately scrambling to re-edit the first few volumes of, because the anime was one of the most popular things in animedom last year. Admittedly I haven't followed Tokyopop quite as closely as the French manga editors, but follow it I did and wow, ut's so much worse than I thought.
Actually realistically Tokyo pop Could’ve probably have sold the rights to other publishing companies such as Marvel ,dark horse comics and many others but I don’t know why they didn’t do that
Marvel and DC were outright asshurt before the rise of the MCU when manga took its rise into the States, and considering the Great Recession, even something as powerful as Dark Horse in the publishing business didn't want to take risks when the economy went south. Regarding the former, I've heard DC and Marvel buying out licenses for manga and outright sitting on them just to spite the Japanese manga industry because they still were too stupid to realize why the 1996 Comics Crash happened. Tenjo Tenge/Battle Vixens/Ikki Tousen I heard was one of these series. Granted TokyoPop wasn't squeaky clean (as red sez), but this is what I can assure why.
29:45 Kamo is made by a german artist who has been very popular for years. Lots of big german artists currently publish something under Tokyopop even though they always had massive success with self publishing too. So I guess the contracts from the german divison of Tokyopop are way better.
even if i needed a vpn, "bargain" isn't really the most attractive word for security.
Its complicated basically you need to do your research and remember to get one from out side the 13 eyes .
"The most wallet-friendly padlock on the market!"
I participated in the Rising Stars of Manga contest at around 2007. The opportunity was great or so I thought at the time, but the people at TP severely mishandled the idea of "western manga". Yes the term is vague, but reality is that any work that dares to use the label "manga" will unavoidably be compared to the Japanese works, especially with populartitles at the time such as Naruto, Bleach, and the Toonami and Funimation shows. So when "manga style" was discourage in favor of a more indie comic style approach, you already know something was wrong and TP was bound to mishandle such, at the time, a fresh market to take and the RSOM project just was not gonna go anywhere in terms of breaking into the manga market, let alone revolutionize it. The contract was reviewed by a lot of users in the forums, particularly ones with access to lawyers, and it did get a lot of backlash (particularly the choice in writing style), so on that end, not only were artists being told how (not) to draw, they were also treated like idiots overall. Still, it was a fun experience for what it's worth.
Ah, so that explains my childhood phenomena of finding a manga that looked interesting only to find it had only 1 volume or was never finished. Great video!
And now they're trying to pull this nonsense again
Considering how Chuck Austen was already infamous in the American comics industry for low-quality and unpopular comics (to the extent of where Marvel and DC both cut ties with him when comic stores flat-out refused to stock his work), it's very fitting that he made a similarly ill-fated OEL manga for an ill-fated company.
20:10 "The shining stars Programme"
Kinda remind me of Sol Press calling themselves the "Shinning start of the localization industry ", I don't think it's a coincidence...
You said Rikki Simons and the Jhonen Vasquez fangirl in me had a heart attack. Thank you.
I'm a broke ass comic author and I'm considering paying a colorist $40 per page to color my stuff and I know I'm lowballing this. What the hell, tokyopop
It’s crazy, I was introduced to TokyoPop back in the early 2010’s because of Queenie Chan’s The Dreaming. She was a fantastic artist and told a scary and gripping story about 2 twin sisters who went to a high school and uncovered a crazy mystery.
I’m sad that treated her and so many others so poorly..
I miss borders but oh well Barnes and noble was and still is closer to my place
Good video and glade you touched on books like King City.
Will you also be covering the weird and bizarre "Van Von Hunter" live action film that TP made starting Yuri Lowenthal?
I need more info immediately about this! Only ever read volume 1 of Van Von but it was delightfully humorous
@@cai_in_the_sky2222 on it's not good, not good at all.
Like it's Lowenthal in a bad cosplay of Van Von, and it's a mockumentary of him going around in modern day. You can watch it on youtube, but boy it's not good.
There was also a Van Von hunter webcomic that was made years before the TP manga.
I remember I read the first two volumes of Bizenghast but stopped when they announced it was canceled or something, I got curious one day and discovered it was completed after a while. Great video, I always felt curious about what happened with those projects.
I live in Germany and I am shocked. Never knew any of this. I only know that they have around 12% market share here. They are not the biggest manga publisher here but are still doing pretty good. I think they mostly publish manga and mostly romance. Haven’t heard of any kind of contests here either. So no kind of original German manga type of thing. At least not that I am aware of.
Just seeing your videos pop up in my notifications brings me so much joy!
Avril Lavigne had one too but I can’t remember if it was TokyoPop
It was called Make 5 Wishes, and no--it was published by Del Rey
Thank you for making this video (as well as your others). Being a part of that original "Toonami" generation that was raised on anime in the 90s and 00s, I was never into manga or visual novels at that time. It is interesting to watch these videos and see all the other things that were happening then. I remember some of these names vaguely, but I didn't start reading manga relatively recently.
I’m a huge fan of Courtney live and hole... I’m definitely getting princess ai even though it looks like something I’d never read otherwise lol.
Be prepared- it's a self insert wish fulfilment fantasy on par with My Immortal and My Inner Life. The story is trash, but it's the _best_ trash. I don't know if they published more than one volume of the sequel, though.
Jesus, I make more than twice $20 per day at my burger job. The idea of selling a full comic page that takes considerably more time, planning, and effort for that little is revolting
I remember reading steady beat as a (pre)teen! I always wondered why I couldn't find a third volume!
The kind of anime/manga content I've been dying for lately
It does not matter. It's a scummy move to deny the authors to continue and to extort them for money.
They also made a manga based on the David Bowie movie labyrinth 😊
I had quite a lot of Tokyopop manga when I was younger, they were cheaper at the import store and I liked many of the manga series they translated. But honestly, something always felt off about them..!
Ah, Princess Ai! A series I have very weird feelings towards. So I have a cousin, she loved Ranma 1/2 as it was translated into Norwegian. So for birthday one of her aunts wanted to give her more manga. Somehow... She got insulted "how dared her aunt assume she'd like other manga?!" was basically what she said. So she started stuffing the manga she had received into the fireplace but it only had space for 3 volumes, so it was Princess Ai vol. 2&3 and some other series. So she stuffed them in and while they burned she got bored and started reading the first volume, and... Liked it... So constantly until she turned 18 she'd command me (I refused to) to buy her the books back even the one she didn't remember what was... So I have quite a weird relationship with that series without knowing who the creators were...
I remember reading peach fuzz as a kid, it was actually my first introduction to manga! Great video, love learning about tokyopop and its demise hehe
7:26 has been plaguing me for over a decade and I don't even have OCD. how did they not notice? did they just not care?
"hey can I finish my manga? I have the entire story summarised already"
"No, you only have half the rights"
"Can I have the second half then?"
"No"
"What are you going to do with it"
"Sell it to you"
Even customers who mostly bought Japanese manga from TokyoPop weren't happy to hear that they were trying to come slithering back into the industry after pulling the plug on many series that were partially released or even close to completion and making the best case scenario for collectors that some other publisher would license rescue them and they'd be able to have a complete (albeit mismatched) set.
I think the whole refusal to give the OELM creators’ their rights back is probably the thing that pisses me off the most. Bad contracts happen a lot, even if it’s less-ish nowadays thanks to the internet teaching people what to look out for, shitty pay is a constant for artists, etc and so forth. But the rights thing just. No one can read those anymore unless they get lucky with secondhand books. I’m also realizing how lucky that one of my favorites, Dramacon, got its third volume physically published because of this. But even then, other favorites of mine like Roadsong and Sorcerers and Secretaries are just up and gone. It’s sad. And the creators can’t even go back and give these series proper endings or anything anymore. God, did they even get royalties? Not likely given all else but. :
I will never forgive them for only doing one volume of their "my dead girlfriend" ELM. I don't care if only I bought it, I liked it.
Still salty to this day about that bastard running it that he never finished priest.
Wow, I want to do a dramatic reading of this contact. That's incredible.
Huh kinda disappointed you barely talked about Dramacon, that was a great series
Toykopop UK also ran a Rising Stars of Manga competition. It went for 2 or 3 years and I still have the compilation books somewhere. Did those who took part in that had to deal with this same shitshow? I don't think any of the UK and Ireland winners went to published series with them.
If any UK creators had their works published, I most certainly never found em while I was working on the research for this video. If nothing else, that at least indicates that if they were published, they were (in typical Tokyopop form) marketed pretty poorly.
Back in the day I really wanted to be a manga writer, although it seemed like I dodged a bullet. Self-publishing novels isn't perfect, but at least I have full control over my work.