Pikmin water enemies be like: Pikmin 1: put strong enemies in the water Pikmin 2: put anything in the water Pikmin 3: don't put almost anything in the water
Pikmin 4: Only have one area with a lot of water and make a new hazard that's LIKE water but blues drown in so you literally have ZERO reason to bring them to Primordial Thicket. (that said, Sandy shores is an excellent level, balancing the use of Blues and ice very well as you have valid reasons to use both)
I'd have just given them the faster carrying trait from White Pikmin. Just say its because its harder to move in water, so on land they move faster because its easier. Another thing they could have is that is they can throw Pikmin all the time. So like they throw them out of water, but anywhere. Why is this useful? Well when you lock on to an enemy and charge, all the pikmin grab onto the legs of a creature, but most weakpoints are near the eyes or some other place higher up. So if you throw a blue on a weakpoint and then charge, all your other blues will throw the other pikmin types on the spot you marked with the first blue. So its a targetted charge move, faster than pressing A while aiming, you know?
Yeah, I think there's a couple very small things they could pick from where it's not a big advantage but just a very small added plus. They could take slightly longer to be chewed up or slightly harder to shake off for example. But this is great because it's just limited to water but carries a small benefit outside water.
Actually I think I can do one better. Blues slightly slow down enemies when attacking them. While we do have ice pikmin that freezes enemies, no other pikmin gives a "status effect" to enemies and I think that would be a cool way to make combat more interesting for all the pikmin types rather than just reds. Reds still will do the most damage (purples will be nerfed to attack at half speed but keep all thier traits of stunning and doing double damage) and Ultra spicy spray strictly doubles the attack speed, no damage modifiers so no cheesing enemies with Sprayed pinks or nerfing purples and reds by cutting thier attack power. The idea is if you have blues attacking an enemy, they make the enemy "soaked" which slows their movement and reduces the odds of them shaking off Pikmin. Water enemies are naturally immune to this, but you already must attack them with blues exclusively anyway. This would add some dandori to using blues for combat by letting them weaken dangers or hostile enemies a bit while still encouraging you to use reds. and of couse, the more blues on the enemy, the more they slow down, down to about 30% their speed if 100 blues are on them. Just imagining a few blues being the difference between a Bulbear chomping your army and dying from several reds before they get the chance to finish biting. Kind of like the whip tongue bulborb who's easily stunned by attacking it's eyes to interupt the bite. Making combat have a lot more strategy.
@@GBDupree Honestly making blues carry items way faster across water would be another good buff. justify using them to carry stuff through water over pinks.
Blue Pikmin automatically have an advantage over other Pikmin aside from Ice in that they're blue and blue is a cool color. In terms of their actual usefulness, I feel they're solid on their own, but water hazard usage in each game and player options to deal with it affect their value heavily
@@m.s.e.advanced2842 I remember a comment in SilokHawks video basically saying "Blues will always be the best to me becaude they're Blue. Especially in Pikmim 3, where they have the best shade of blue."
Most aquatic/amphibious creatures are often very sensitive to changes in their environment, and Blue Pikmin being so dependent on map design is actually a very neat parallel to represent this.
I honestly just wait. Mainly since you need them to reach the Armored Cannon Beatle fight anyways (at least i think you do). That way I can knock out 2 bosses in one day and it feels nice. Not to mention, the Blue skip for Snagrets can be a bit wack. I tried doing it in my most recent playthrough of the Wii version on Dolphin (i wanted to try playing Pikmin with a Mouse and Keyboard. i did have to rebind some things but it worked surprisingly well.) But they fell into the water a bit. Hell even when I did move the box sometimes large groups fell into the water (i doubt this is wii exclusive). So it was better for me to just have one group focus on opening up the way for the Armored Cannon Beetle, and another deal with the Snagret that has ship part.
I swear to god if it’s not.. Seriously, pikmin 4 just felt so unpikmin-like With oatchi getting rid of all the challenge of controlling a squad, and adding the squad limit, among other things, Pikmin 4 is probably my least favorite Pikmin game. (That’s not saying much, they’re all the greatest games of all time)
I've always had an idea for a Pikmin level that was set in a tide pool, where every other day the area would cycle from a flooded "wet" or sandy "dry" versions of the map. This would change the type of enemies and hazards present along with exposing and hiding certain routes to treasures. You could have a cave that's more accessible but harder in the dry version while the wet one is more limited access yet it could potentially have less deadly obstacles in it. I feel that would make Blue Pikmin a very useful and sought after type since they are the most dependent on the design of the level than other Pikmin types.
I just think hazards should be more dynamic overall. Most of them are just "fit the red key to the red hole", while water might be the only exception. I'd love to redirect water to put out a fire, or for water to be deadly if electricity touches it, stuff like that.
this is a very cool design concept. it's like a 5x better version of the tide shenanigans in that one pikmin 4 level. it also adds some more complexity to deciding where to play. less "i don't have blues yet come back later" and more "i can wait for X day for a challenge more suited to me". i'd love to see how it could interact with another time limit mechanic, it could force some real fun dandori or whatever.
this kind of an idea is pretty similar to the mechanic of the Serene Shores from Pikmin 4 where low tide happens when the day is half over, but here the water level would be different each day where one day the water level is normal, the next could be "high tide" where more of the map is flooded giving you access to some new parts and the next could be low tide where there's much less water
There is a secret mechanic on Pìkmin 2, which decides which Pikmin are more likely to be eaten by an enemy. Usually, the more common types are the more likely to die: Red are more likely to die than yellow, yellow than purple, purple than white, white than Bulbmin, and Bulbmin than the unused Pik Pik carrots. The only exception is blues, which would normally be consider less common than reds and yellows, but are still the most likely to die. They are clearly not getting a buff.
Minor nitpick, Bulbmin acquired on the current sub-level have the highest priority, even more than Blues. The Bulbmin in your list are only the ones acquired on a prior sub-level.
Remember when we thought Oatchi would completely nullify the use of blues in pikmin 4, then be pleasantly surprised to see blues actually have a pretty solid use in 4
i think in the pre auto-lock era blue pikmin have an advantage that you don't really think about: room to fight. sure, take the mystic marsh sublevel, for example. there are a ton of enemies, and some can be taken out on the stumps, but it's far safer to use blues than it is to go in with purples. we have to ignore sprays, but the point is that often where there is a lot of water there is little room for combat with the land enemies because water is usually nearby to get in the way.
After watching the silokwawk video I had the idea of a buff for blues. They could use their mouths to store water or some other liquid in their cheeks. Then they could spit it out. This could be used for all sorts of puzzles like making a scale by filling buckets with water, making a sponge grow to cross a platform, water a plant obstacle to make it grow to access something, or spitting water on a piece of ice to make a bridge. This could also be used for a small stun move on some enemies, and make any fire enemies lose their fire.
I actually like this idea since there could be an option to add puzzles where you need to synergize this ability with Ice pikmin, you care a certain amount of water to a set location, and then freeze it, allowing you to access that area or something
I feel that the Submerged Castle / Engulfed castle is the strongest counter to the idea that blues are somehow bad. I feel like in 1 they were intentionally designed for the purpose of water, but in every subsequent game their new purpose is what everyone seems to complain is a flaw. In my eyes, the fact blue Pikmin have no unique gimmick outside of water immunity is the whole point. Underwater areas are a puzzle by their sheer existence, because you are required to strategize how to handle a particular problem with "base strength" Pikmin, or in other words a blank slate that you can't cheese the game with. The Submerged Castle is effectively your ultimate test of pure dandori ability by being put in a situation where you can't utilize gimmicks or resistances to cheese the game. Also in case anyone forgot, in Pikmin 4 the blues actually can swim to chase down enemies and they appear to have a faster "hunting" speed under water than on land.
The thing is that other pikmin type aslo trive in ther environement. Red got it extra damage even too there are zone and underground with tons of fire damage. You could argue water the only ''undodgeable'' element, but Flying pikmin exist in 3 and in 4 we also got ice pikmin and the dog can safely carry other type over ponds of water.
I find it really fascinating that Pikmin 3, the game where Blues are considered their undeniable worst, was also the game that buffed them by giving them their swim attack when charging underwater
thank god for this. i'm tired of people saying that blue pikmin need to be buffed when it's obvious that the fact that they are both necessary in many areas and a major drain on available squad slots that could be used for pikmin with more appealing advantages is integral to making squad balance an interesting challenge and not just a no-brainer.
The addition of actual on-land hazards that only blues can traverse in P4 like the sprinklers is another reason why they feel better to use in that game, I remember thinking that in my playthrough that it was wild how it seemed like so much stuff in 4 would make blues completely obsolete but to me it felt like they were at their most interesting in terms of usage I do agree about the whole three type limit thing being an issue, I don’t really hate it because it feels somewhat reasonable to limit you with seven different types of Pikmin plus oatchi at your disposal but there’s probably better ways of doing it (you can only have x number of a certain Pikmin type, maybe? Cap things out at 20-25 or something so you can’t just constantly depend on the strongest types? Idk)
There are eight types of Pikmin in Pikmin 4, not counting Glow Pikmin: 1. Red 2. Yellow 3. Blue 4. Purple 5. White 6. Rock 7. Winged 8. Ice But yeah, I feel like they should’ve gone with a 5-type limit instead of 3.
@@brianhull2407 Honestly, I feel like having access to all of them would probably be a lot better. My thought process behind that is simple. If you're experienced enough to handle 8 types of pikmin in those small numbers, why not? Have fun bringing a proper squad when 100 has to be divided by 8. If you're not experienced, well you don't have to drag them all and unlike pikmin 2 caves, you do have access to the onions while underground.
Finally, my several comments of going over blues needing a buff have finally paid off with imonlyhereforpikmin deciding to make a video on blue pikmin!! I am the happiest I've been in 6 months and WILL eat a glass bottle to celebrate my sudden burst of joy
Here's an idea: what if the naturally waterlogged Blue Pikmin attacking enemies caused them to become "slippery"? This would be a new status effect that would build up similar to the ice Pikmin's ability to freeze. When an enemy is slippery, they could have a chance to miss or otherwise fumble their attacks, causing Pikmin to simply get knocked over instead of getting eaten or other wise killed. This would be helpful for enemies which have high kill potential with single attacks, like the Soverign Bulblax. This would mean that Blue Pikmin would have a niche but apparent combat advantage making them useful for defeating certain enemies with less casualties. Bringing back life guard would also be helpful, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was forgotten about because it was a somewhat obscure mechanic.
Yeah, the thing about Blue Pikmin is that, unlike literally every other type in the series, their usefulness is entirely dependent on level design. If there isn’t something that basically requires Blues, you might as well not use them. This is especially the case with Winged, Ice, and Glow Pikmin and Oatchie also offering ways to traverse water to some extent, even if Blues are usually best at dealing with anything underwater or large, deep pools of water. I do think they could give Blue Pikmin one tiny added ability: increased defense. Maybe they could survive other hazards slightly longer than most other types that aren’t immune, including Gloom, they could have a chance of surviving explosions (if they aren’t right next to the bomb) and piercing/crushing attacks, enemies take longer to digest them than other types (i.e. you have a bit more time to save them by finishing off the enemy before they die), they have a chance to not be panicked or confused (and they’d shake it off faster), they pop out of bubbles faster, they have a chance to not stick to tongues and such (for Bloysters, the Emperor/Supreme Bulblax, etc.), and they are more likely to retain their flowers if shaken off. It wouldn’t be a _massive_ advantage (it’d only be a low chance of surviving crushing or piercing attacks or explosions, they wouldn’t survive a lot longer than others when eating or inflicted with some sort of hazard, they’d still be guaranteed to die instantly in the explosion if they’re directly next to the bomb, and they are still likely to get panicked or confused), but it’d at least be something they’d have that doesn’t depend _entirely_ on level design. It’s also based on how they work in Super Smash Bros., where hazards aren’t really a thing; rather than inflicting water damage (like the Reds inflict fire damage, Yellows inflict electric damage, and Whites inflict poison damage), and not having the already canonical secondary advantages of the others (Reds deal the second-most amount of damage per hit, Yellows have a higher and longer arc, Whites weigh Olimar down less when flying and attack more frequently, and Purples deal the most damage, hitstun, and knockback of any type but are heavier (for when Olimar is flying) and slower than the others, don’t get thrown as far or as high, and don’t latch onto enemies like the others), Blues simply have a higher defense than the others, so they can take more punishment without dying. It also fits with how much abuse they take in official artwork.
I think blue pikmin don’t need a buff, they’re really good depending on the environment they’re placed in. I think people just find them boring to use which I can’t really argue with. I think they’re the most fun to use when it comes to managing your types and numbers, but they’re less fun when it comes to actually fighting or collecting.
@@magikazam8430 The difference is fights with reds are shorter due to the damage, yellows have that additional factor of being thrown super far which does sometimes come in handy. These are two factors that make the others "fun". Blues advantage is just being able to access areas others cannot. This can be a fantastic design, but in pikmin often feels like it's not there, which is a problem. It's there, it just doesn't feel like it. You can feel the reds increased attack, you have to plan around yellows being flung super far. You rarely notice the blues ability to survive water. That and 3 and 4 add in other methods to deal with water as well, making that advantage feel less relevant in treasures too.
I'm not sure how nintendo is going to juggle all of these pikmin types with new ones in the upcoming games. Pikmin 4 already has a bunch of near useless pikmin types so I don't know how the next game will fare. Perhaps they could have three separate captains with specific pikmin that only reunite at certain points or end of the game?
One thing I always though was that Blue Pikmin should be able to survive hazards for longer. I think it fits that while they might not be the best for a challenge, they can be good for multiple different challenges that are back to back. I also like the idea that Blues are more defensive. They were on the brink of extinction, but they refused to die.
Pikmin 3 apparently had a cut area which was full of water like the distant spring. This is why blue pikmin are just kinda introduced in garden of hope in a very small area.
The thing about blues is that in an other rpg or tactics game they would fit the bill of a utility unit. An easy way of explaining it is the thief in an rpg. The thief sucks at fighting & can’t do anything a warrior or mage could for dealing with an enemy. They’re generally sub par for someone who takes up a party slot. But the reason they’re picked is well…picking. Lock picking (or stealing too but locks are better for the analogy). If you encounter a locked chest or door? Tough shit. You need something from a chest to get the best result of the quest? You need the thief. This forces you to use him at the cost of just picking your strongest bros imaginable & punching everyone to death. The value comes from how much the devs lean into this. BioWare has two perfect examples for both ends of the spectrum. On the one hand is tali in mass effect 1, if you didn’t pick a class that can hack locks & computers, you’ll probably need her. She’s a character with low bulk & a close range focus so in a fight typically the guy who’s skin is made of metal or the literal mix between a rhino & a reptile man is gonna be better but with only 2 slots someone is going to need to do that job. Multiple quests need that job. So she’s incredibly useful because the circumstances necessitate a utility dedicated option. On the other end you have mission in KOTOR. She is also a bad fighter who specs into security as a skill exclusively. Security is a lock picking skill that lets you disarm mines too. Mines don’t do much damage and anything you can pick you can just smash open with zero consequences other than you lose stealth. Which isn’t that helpful. So picking her versus the guy with a laser sword that can shoot lightning out of every cell of his body is a pretty lopsided choice. It’s not even make water more prevalent, it’s make water the point of something for blues. The choice shouldn’t actually be “how many slots are you giving up for blues” it actually should be the inverse; “how many slots can you dedicate to non blues”. Blues should be what an initial plan should be built around theoretically with the rest being there to compensate for when they finally aren’t super relevant in order to make them more “powerful.”
For Pikmin 5, I would get rid of the three types limit for caves and bring back the hazards indicator from Pikmin 2. I'd also keep the "suggested" types, but merely for the types necessary to collect everything in a cave. If for example a cave suggests Red and Yellow Pikmin but also includes Poison and Crushing as hazards, it means that White and Rock Pikmin are useful but not required.
I feel a weird buff you could give blue pikmin is making them harder for enemies to shake off. Since blue pikmin have to pick up and move things underwatwr, I think it'd make sense that they would have a better grip and endurance than other pikmin.
Blue Pikmin are entirely dependant on the area unlike other pikmin types, so they do come off as awful in games that utilize water poorly (3 and 4 hello) because their job can either be done by someone else or there just is nothin for them to do. Pikmin 1 for instance is so overloaded with water that once you get blues, they will be your main for the rest of the game. Once you bypass the fire geysers in the Navel, they go beddy bye. I legitimately cannot remember the last time I used Reds in the Distant Spring - as you said, the more reds I have the less Blues I can use in the water. Pikmin 3/4 on the other hand have so many ways to deal with water (Wings/Oatchi) and blues are introduced late, that they feel SO less useful.
yeah in the Distant Spring, you mainly use Red's to handle the few land area's since you are dealing with some of the strongest and tankiest foes in the game, where as almost every ship part in the area requires Blue's to obtain
@@bulborb8756 They are good for that but if I have all my Blues as flowers, 80-100 blues is well plenty to destory Bulbears and the like. I just keep it simple and use Blue only
@@toon10001two i guess, but yellows are just needed for the UV Lamp and opening up paths...and thats the extent of their use there since Yellows are next to useless in Pikmin 1
If the Red Pikmins is doing ×1.5 damage, and the Yellow Pikmins more around utility, perhaps the Blue ones could have a focus on survival or tanking. They could handle more damage before dying (or the enemy taking more time before defeating them), be able to survive or endure hazard more easily. They could have a "coolness" to them by being able to overcome panic effect or being sometimes immune from it like being disciplined and loyal when facing creature such as an Iridescent Beetle or an Antenna Beetle. Plus it aligns why they are always the "victim" in promotion arts: they are in fact Paladin, willing to sacrifice themselves instead to save their family!
I get why they have a type limit in Pikmin 4 (managing 8 types would be a hassle), but a 3-type limit is too restrictive. If they’re going to have one, it should be a 5-type limit. In every other game, you could do 5 types at once, meaning you could have 20 of each type in a squad; why not here? (Seriously, my pseudo-OCD is bothered by the fact that I can’t divide my squad evenly into the max number of types I can have out at once.)
Having a full stack should be a personal choice. I don't need to have all 8 types at once, and if the game does what pikmin 2 did (in the caves having what hazards are there) I can easily plan around that. That's how I feel about it.
The lifeguard ability is something I have never used. I didn't even know it existed until seeing a whistleless challenge. It's a really cool ability, but it's almost entirely useless if you can press the B button
There are a few spots where it's easy for pikmin to fall in the water, and not have an easy route out. Like if they fall into the water near the Snagrets in 1, or the wrong side of the island in Awakening Woods. It's incredibly niche, but does have practical uses in normal gameplay.
Man as a blue pikmin fan myself I hate that they have to got through this but in pikmin 4 when I get blue pikmin I never touched the other types until the game forces me to do
I've never really thought of Blue Pikmin being that bad solely because water is such a more immense hazard than any other. Pikmin can avoid fire geisers or electric wires, but there's not a ton that can be done for a pool of water, it makes you rethink something as simple as navigation. Blues being able to swim after prey through a charge is also huge and something people easily forget about. It's a pink Pikmin without the damage nerf. That said, I think removing the lifeguard ability was such a bad decision. You said it's not very useful, but I think that's only the case in passive moments. When you're in combat near an enemy, just quickly tossing a blue Pikmin over to save him rather than leaving the battle to tweet it back to shore really helps with saving time, in my last Pikmin 2 playthrough I used it quite a bit, it's nice to save on time. I do have a differing opinion on the three Pikmin limit. You make an excellent point on player choice, especially with Pikmin 1 examples, but it's easy for players to just grab one of every Pikmin not knowing what hazards there are, and when there are so many Pikmin, it'd be frustrating to go in a new world with just twelve Pikmin only to not have enough for basic tasks. But maybe that's the point of the recommended three. Increasing the cap would've been a great end-game reward too, when types don't matter as much since the worlds would have had hazards cleared, and Pikmin with physical attributes are more useful (purples, pinks, and whites), but you want to be wary of any staggering hazards that might still be around. This happened to me in Hero's Hideaway, pinks are amazing there due to its verticality but I got surprised by an ice enemy I was powerless against without ice Pikmin.
With blues the only ways i can see them getting better is if they either drown the entire map, make them slip out of enemies when whistled, or make transportation of materials harder. Drowning the map ruins the fun of using other pikmin, making them slip out makes you use them more and makes sure you wont lose as many pikmin due to accidents, and transportation honestly should be harder than having the pikmin already have a predetermined quick and easy path. Make some paths slippery like ice and/or slime or have hazards everywhere and make certain paths only work certain types of pikmin.
I think the lifeguard ability is actually pretty underrated-- if you're in a cave and trying to deal with an enemy that calls for a certain type of pikmin, and they just happen to be near water, then you can toss a bunch of Blues willy-nilly into the water to create a pretty ironclad "safety net"; It can remove a lot of the confusion and stress from fighting enemies near water knowing you don't need to worry about whistling and throwing off your offensive flow if a few Purples fall in by accident when the enemy shakes them off or whatever
I think they should give blue pikmin a 1.5-2x damage multiplier in water and keep their damage penalty on land. It would make them more viable in water while still keeping their role as spot fillers
Something I'd like to see for blue pikmin is the introduction to new mechanics having to do with water. Maybe blues could somehow transport water to use for puzzle solving for example. Maybe some of these puzzles could even occur over multiple days: think irrigating plants that grow later to form a bridge over a gap. Or just going back to the idea of blues being able to transport water, it could allow blues to, situationally, be able to deal with fire obstacles. Some levels/puzzles could be designed to take advantage of that new role consolidation.
8:02 It's even worse than that: you don't need blues to take back the fruit, you only need them to break down the wall. If you want, you can take that down with just one Blue Pikmin and a Bomb Rock.
It would be nice to see more utilisation of the blues or even some cross-species pikmin colaberation as a "buff"- maybe they could get lifeguard back and... unironically a gun or rather a spit attack while in/after leaving water. Dont make it too strong but let them cleanse other pikmin of afflictions and do some ranged attacks on elemental enemies (put out fire enemies, discharge eletric, cleanse poision enemies, knock down flying enemies) you could keep it low amounts of shots per pikmin, maybe even have it be tied to their flower tier (like 4-10 each maybe at most) that way EVERY squad would be better off having *some* amount of blue pikmin as long as there is water/water enemies along the path. I know for most afflictions the player can just call the aflicted and itll heal them, like with lifegard, which I think would help keep that side in check because it means if you are fighting, lets say a big poision boss that makes puddles, you could have that be a blue and white focused (but not forced) fight where it does an opening after enough time or an evniromental puzzle is solved or a bomb is thrown or that- or you could have your blues douse it so your combat focused pikmin (purples/reds/rock/ice) can force the cycle earlier while white does initial distraction chip damage
I'd like it if they doubled-down on the blue pikmin's old "lifeguard" behavior. Give them the ability to spit water, dealing low damage but being able to hit enemies (with a low potential of distracting them, though an enemy would become resistant to this over time) & other targets without being thrown. They could also do this at other pikmin automatically to extinguish them if they are burning. Maybe even give them a longer "survival window" if eaten, so you have better chance at preventing their deaths if they get eaten (an inverse to the red pikmin's increased damage). Then all you need to do is add more shortcut areas and/or triggers underwater that require blue pikmin to trigger.
I always had a random idea that blue pikmin were an optional pikmin type like similar to zelda games where some items are completely optional to beat the game but obtaining them would open up new secrets to collect just food for thought.
Well I never played a Pikmin game, but I played Overlord: Raising Hell and it's sequel. There you have 4 types of minions. Browns, which melee beatsticks, reds which are ranged, greens who wre your assassins and blues, your supports. The first came out in 2007, 6 years after the first pikmin game. It's been described as pikmin in theory, dungeon keeper in practice. In that game series it's normal to bring only a nominal amount of blues anywhere as these guys are weak, magic immune and can walk through water where all other minions drown. They are your most important tools for a lot of puzzles, the sewer level in the first game in particular comes to mind. You can't enter the level with anything but blue minions. But bring too many and you have a problem. Just getting a fighting force of brown minions is somewhat of a puzzle in that level, as you have to use your blues revival ability to even get them. From the description, blue pikmin aren't bad. They just aren't used well in the level design.
One buff Blue pikmin could get while keeping their reliance on water is give them the samr ability vaporeon has: make them invisible when wet. No random pot shots,or pulling aggro, and they gain immunity to shake off counter attacks
I feel like it would be cool to give blue, red and yellow pikmin some type of elemental buff just like ice. Even if it's temporary or on a resource based system it would be neat to have them deal fire damage/electric and water pikmin could slow, drown or slip up enemies or something. They'd have a lot more combat potential this way and it could even work into puzzles
At the end, the comment about blue pikmin being targeted more often, it's actually been discovered that it's a quirk with the game and how you pull out pikmin from the onions, at least in pikmin 1. The typical player pulls red > yellow > blue from the onions, since that's how you discover them so that's what you're used to doing. Enemies attacks, when they hit multiple pikmin, prioritize the pikmin you've pulled from onions last. Since that's typically blue, they get targeted more often. Repeat it with pulling reds last, and reds are the first ones to be nommed.
I think a fun way to give blue pikmin something extra to make them feel more cool would be something that's unique but that doesn't really convey a true advantage - something like how white pikmin can detect hidden buried treasures.
I feel like the people who scream the most for Blue Pikmin to get buffed are the same people who get their minds blown when you tell/remind them that Pikmin is a Real-Time Strategy game.
For the best pikmin experience I feel yes 3 type limit should be removed hands down and auto select. If a buff must be given to blue pikmin (which honestly I feel they are fine as is) then give them a small speed buff underwater, not as fast as white flowers but faster then normal flowered pikmin. Yellows are fine as is but the level design would need to be tweaked imo. Electricity should have never been changed from instakill, and we can implement more of the lighting up rooms ability. Perhaps have the solar system not available and instead keep floors dim normally, yet also have floors get either progressively darker as you get lower or have some rooms that are just naturally darker thus encouraging the player to bring yellows for hazard removal and more layout vision. I'd also mention purples as I like how they are in pikmin 2. Keep them rare and powerful, yet refrain from having doomsday apparatus levels of carry weight or atleats if we must have that make getting purples easier yet still rare, or make losing not as detrimental (could be done by changing pop-buds from 5 pikmin to 10)
There is actually one buff I would give blue Pikmin but only centered towards combat so that bringing them into water focused areas doesn't restrict them to only carrying stuff, and it's by making them sticky. By sticky, I mean giving them a stat that makes them far less likely to be shaken off creatures, which would allow them to keep doing damage when every other type gets flung off and made vulnerable. This overall makes them just as suitable for combat as Reds since less of them would be less likely to die if you just leave them with a creature and act as a damage supplement for Reds in situations like the Engulfed/Submerged Castle where Reds are entirely absent, but they obviously can't be spammed like Reds because of their lower damage.
A blue pikmin once punched me in the stomach and I was winded. He was also quite derogatory to my appearance as he walked away and I wanted to cry but that would only make him stronger.
Fun fact: if not for an invisible wall blocking the Quagled Mureclops that doesn't go away until you unlock blue Pikmin, you could beat Pikmin 3 without Blue Pikmin
How to make blue pikmin more useful: -add more water hazrds -make elemental hazards only break for a short time. -add more enemies that shoot water on land (no nintendo, one watery blowhog is not enough) -make several shortcuts that only blues can take that wings cant take either - random puddles to make large areas feel smaller and cramped for non blues -bring back lifeguarding -give blues the perk of having greater grip strength so they dont get shaken off as easily as other types -more areas where water can shift / change levels (use the soft dirt/mud mechanic more) -something similar to bamboo gates for winged pikmin but instead like a water valve that only blues can keep open or active -water traps in caves (random streams of water flowing, water droplets, or water constantly rising or lowering) -hide valuable / farmable loot in underwater dirt mounds rather than on land. (daily respawn)
I love that the final cave for Pikmin 4, Cavern for a King, really wants you to use blue Pikmin in it, despite the fact that they're rarely useful there and ice Pikmin are more helpful overall in that cave.
Honestly, this might already be a thing, but a simple buff to blues would be : Let them walk normally in mud and low water zones like puddles etc and makes so all other types of Pikmins are slowed down (except flying ofc) this could be useful for them in general for carrying things back to the base, (an example is the fall inspired zone in 4 where there are puddles of mud at several spots) and bring back the lifguard ability but for 1 blue you can save 3 other pikmins and buff the drowning rate/ make the fact that pikmins are saved faster by blues than they are by the whistle
I've always said it, the issue are not blue Pikmin, but the level design. That said, I'd nerf and buff winged a bit in order to fix this blue conundrum even further, one, I'd make winged slower when carrying a treasure but bring back their smart shortcut-taking path-finding from 3 back, this would make them good for taking shortcuts but non-optimal if the treasure you are aiming for is on a straight line or other types are better suited to take that same shortcut (for example, a small puddle). However, I'd make it so that if the treasure is small in size, this debuff isn't as severe, this to make some treasure still be optimally carried by winged Pikmin, this would include gold nuggets and 1 or 2 weight treasure, of course in some circumstances other types could be better, but that would depend on certain details. This would also make Winged a bit more interesting and routing a bit deeper, it might be optimal to for example, use a couple of winged to bring a treasure over a wall or ledge and later on call them back in order for other type to take the wheel once the shortcut has been passed, basically make winged the "slow but safe" option. As for level design, levels do need a lot more shortcuts locked behind water.
I think part of the reason so many people want blue pikmin buffed is because a lot of people in gaming spaces seem to have an idea that balancing begins and ends with making everything equally good and not making it so everything accomplishes its goal as it is designed to. Blues don't need rebalancing in 1 and 2 because, as you pointed out, the purpose of them in game design is to provide utility but no benefits beyond that. They have a purpose, and they serve it well and as designed, even if they do end up worse than the others, I'd say they're well balanced.
2:41 Me who not only never uses Red Pikmin in the Distant Spring but also only ever uses like 10 Yellow Pikmin max there as well. (It's surprisingly pretty easy to avoid all the Bulbears)
Coupla quick thoughts on the topic: 1) The most salient point in the video is that Blues are boring in all incarnations. What is the use of an element in a game if it just takes away the interest? Argueably there's purpose to breathers and slow-downs in order to pace the frenetic action and thereby make it more emphatic and impactful, but that's hardly occurring with Blues. 2) It is broadly true, but speaks to a lack of awareness among the fanbase, that they stop at saying that Blues need "a buff" instead of a more precise or articulate term. Buffs can take many forms, and lots of potential buffs wouldn't address the problem or even make it worse. Blues need more and broader uses, traits outside of their narrow elemental field, not just a blunt stat boost or an overpowered new ability. 3) Nintendo in general seems to have a weakness with water in their games. They love including and even inserting it where it does not belong, as if they have an undue fascination with water. Imagine that Nintendo has a water fetish, and they just see "more water" as a good thing, no matter how flimsy the justification. Hence the Water Temple in Ocarina of Time, the sailing in Wind Waker, Mario Sunshine's entire existence etc. etc.. Nintendo's implementation of water isn't bad on the whole, there are many great water levels and features, but it seems a frequent point of unusually and puzzling failure in their game design. (Nintendo are much worse at designing shields and other defensive elements but they're never really "pushed" like water is either so it's okay)
If Blue Pikmin were given their own ability then the other types of Pikmin would need new hazards to go along with it. Like Red Pikmin being able to walk across hot surfaces or Yellow Pikmin across charged surfaces.
I think the reason people started to begin wishing they got an attack was Pikmin 2 having way flashier fights and most Pikmin having an use in a fight except blue who only did good against water enemies left them feeling like the most useless type, with people at least forgiving red basically being the same but with fire because of issues out of that types control (being outclassed by purple pikmins overtuning).
After watching pikmin 1 speedruns i realized that blue pikmin are the "basic pikmin" not reds which you alway get first. In all games the defining trait of blues is not drowning, and otherwise they have normal damage, carry speed, and weight. Also they die first because the order of operations of the damage calcs. The utility of this defining trait is entirely up to map design. Similar to yellows being thrown higher, and reds walking through fire geysers (unkillable in pikmin 1). Something i have noticed in pikmin 1 speedruns is that if no other type is required like yellows to reach a ledge or bomb down a wall, then you fill up your squad with blues once available. In pikmin 2's submerged castle that only lets you bring blues this fact is emphasized. Blues can do basically everything, not necessarily as well, but they get the job done.
It would also be cool if there were areas with shallow water that other pikmin types move through slowly. So you COULD use reds or yellows or something, but its better to use blues to save time
Honestly, I always feel like people approach blue pikmin with the wrong mindset. It’s all about options, and how to best deligate tasks to do each day. Sure, even on pikmin 4 where oatchi CAN pull anything out of the water eventually, and you have ice and winged pikmin to go ACROSS water, if you deligate ice pikmin to freeze it for other pikmin to cross, or winged pikmin to fly over it, that’s less pikmin you have to do other tasks you may also need to do in that area. No pikmin is ever going to be a catch all solution for every problem (Pikmin challenge runs with only one pikmin type quickly prove such), but if people don’t feel like blue pikmin do enough, I think I have a simple, but effective buff that would make them more viable. Make them move at white pikmin speed while in water. I think that’s all they would need really.
I think the lack of secondary traits or crazy abilites is why I really like blue pikmin. They help in exploring a change environment or a puzzle, not obliterate everything in their path. You kind of have to think when using them.
What is your favourite type of Pikmin?
@@imonlyhereforpikmin orange
@@imonlyhereforpikmin brown
@@imonlyhereforpikmin pikmin
Bulbmin
Purple, their as useful as they are silly
Pikmin water enemies be like:
Pikmin 1: put strong enemies in the water
Pikmin 2: put anything in the water
Pikmin 3: don't put almost anything in the water
Pikmin 4: Put in strong enemies, but make half of them in shallow water such that Ice Pikmin can affect them or exist in a water-filled dungeon
Pikmin 4: put anything in the water but you always have enough blues
Also Pikmin 3: half of what’s in the water can be grabbed by pinks
Pikmin 4: Only have one area with a lot of water and make a new hazard that's LIKE water but blues drown in so you literally have ZERO reason to bring them to Primordial Thicket. (that said, Sandy shores is an excellent level, balancing the use of Blues and ice very well as you have valid reasons to use both)
@@Castersvarog Also pikmin 3: Blues only appear after you beat the game. /s (seriously, why is collecting like the last 5 fruit "Post game content"?)
The only thing I'd add to Blue Pikmin is a mechanic where staying underwater for long periods of time will slowly level them up to a flower.
Ooh I actually really like that
I'd have just given them the faster carrying trait from White Pikmin. Just say its because its harder to move in water, so on land they move faster because its easier.
Another thing they could have is that is they can throw Pikmin all the time. So like they throw them out of water, but anywhere. Why is this useful? Well when you lock on to an enemy and charge, all the pikmin grab onto the legs of a creature, but most weakpoints are near the eyes or some other place higher up. So if you throw a blue on a weakpoint and then charge, all your other blues will throw the other pikmin types on the spot you marked with the first blue. So its a targetted charge move, faster than pressing A while aiming, you know?
Yeah, I think there's a couple very small things they could pick from where it's not a big advantage but just a very small added plus. They could take slightly longer to be chewed up or slightly harder to shake off for example. But this is great because it's just limited to water but carries a small benefit outside water.
Actually I think I can do one better. Blues slightly slow down enemies when attacking them. While we do have ice pikmin that freezes enemies, no other pikmin gives a "status effect" to enemies and I think that would be a cool way to make combat more interesting for all the pikmin types rather than just reds. Reds still will do the most damage (purples will be nerfed to attack at half speed but keep all thier traits of stunning and doing double damage) and Ultra spicy spray strictly doubles the attack speed, no damage modifiers so no cheesing enemies with Sprayed pinks or nerfing purples and reds by cutting thier attack power. The idea is if you have blues attacking an enemy, they make the enemy "soaked" which slows their movement and reduces the odds of them shaking off Pikmin. Water enemies are naturally immune to this, but you already must attack them with blues exclusively anyway. This would add some dandori to using blues for combat by letting them weaken dangers or hostile enemies a bit while still encouraging you to use reds. and of couse, the more blues on the enemy, the more they slow down, down to about 30% their speed if 100 blues are on them. Just imagining a few blues being the difference between a Bulbear chomping your army and dying from several reds before they get the chance to finish biting. Kind of like the whip tongue bulborb who's easily stunned by attacking it's eyes to interupt the bite. Making combat have a lot more strategy.
@@GBDupree Honestly making blues carry items way faster across water would be another good buff. justify using them to carry stuff through water over pinks.
Blue Pikmin automatically have an advantage over other Pikmin aside from Ice in that they're blue and blue is a cool color. In terms of their actual usefulness, I feel they're solid on their own, but water hazard usage in each game and player options to deal with it affect their value heavily
@@m.s.e.advanced2842 I remember a comment in SilokHawks video basically saying "Blues will always be the best to me becaude they're Blue. Especially in Pikmim 3, where they have the best shade of blue."
blue is overrated
Glow pikmin are a cool color (green), too. Albeit, a yellow-green but still. Purple, too. (Edit: forgot purple.)
Hi mse didn’t know you were also a pikmin fan
Pikmin: racism edition
Their lifeguard ability was something I discovered on complete accident as a kid. It's adorable and just for that I like them as much as the others!
It was removed for 3, did 4 bring it back?
@@Skullhawk13Nope, Pikmin save themselves anyway without even whistling in 3 and 4 so it would never be used
Most aquatic/amphibious creatures are often very sensitive to changes in their environment, and Blue Pikmin being so dependent on map design is actually a very neat parallel to represent this.
Blue pikmin are good when the level design remembers they exist
"blue pikmin are used to gatekeep sections"
forest of hope speedrun moment
I honestly just wait. Mainly since you need them to reach the Armored Cannon Beatle fight anyways (at least i think you do).
That way I can knock out 2 bosses in one day and it feels nice.
Not to mention, the Blue skip for Snagrets can be a bit wack. I tried doing it in my most recent playthrough of the Wii version on Dolphin (i wanted to try playing Pikmin with a Mouse and Keyboard. i did have to rebind some things but it worked surprisingly well.) But they fell into the water a bit. Hell even when I did move the box sometimes large groups fell into the water (i doubt this is wii exclusive). So it was better for me to just have one group focus on opening up the way for the Armored Cannon Beetle, and another deal with the Snagret that has ship part.
@@yoshimallow it's the speedrun for a reason. you do it when you want to beat the area in one day and pretty much no other time.
@@pikminman13 Wait then how do you reach Cannon Beetle without Blues?
@@yoshimallowYou throw bomb yellows onto a specific spot on the gate and they will just drop it on the top of the gate
@@th3pr0fil3 that's actually kinda cool
Hopefully in 2035 when Pikmin 5 is announced, they'll get rid of the 3 type squad limit.
*Monkey Paw curls* there is a 2 type limit now
@@justinr.507 maybe five type limit?
@@thewanderingchelmetyea they should of done that they could’ve recommended 3 types and let you choose the other 2
I swear to god if it’s not..
Seriously, pikmin 4 just felt so unpikmin-like
With oatchi getting rid of all the challenge of controlling a squad, and adding the squad limit, among other things, Pikmin 4 is probably my least favorite Pikmin game.
(That’s not saying much, they’re all the greatest games of all time)
Its a really good mechanic to balance the game
It's a shame Miyamoto didn't keep blue's iconic squirt attack with his 44 Magnum
Yeah I was pretty disappointed when that was removed
Ranged Pikmin?
Unironically I think they should have a ranged attack. Not even a stronger attack. Just do it at range
@@Thankedsphere99 Pikman-At-Legs
Actually, great idea
I've always had an idea for a Pikmin level that was set in a tide pool, where every other day the area would cycle from a flooded "wet" or sandy "dry" versions of the map.
This would change the type of enemies and hazards present along with exposing and hiding certain routes to treasures. You could have a cave that's more accessible but harder in the dry version while the wet one is more limited access yet it could potentially have less deadly obstacles in it. I feel that would make Blue Pikmin a very useful and sought after type since they are the most dependent on the design of the level than other Pikmin types.
I just think hazards should be more dynamic overall. Most of them are just "fit the red key to the red hole", while water might be the only exception. I'd love to redirect water to put out a fire, or for water to be deadly if electricity touches it, stuff like that.
this is a very cool design concept. it's like a 5x better version of the tide shenanigans in that one pikmin 4 level. it also adds some more complexity to deciding where to play. less "i don't have blues yet come back later" and more "i can wait for X day for a challenge more suited to me".
i'd love to see how it could interact with another time limit mechanic, it could force some real fun dandori or whatever.
this kind of an idea is pretty similar to the mechanic of the Serene Shores from Pikmin 4 where low tide happens when the day is half over, but here the water level would be different each day where one day the water level is normal, the next could be "high tide" where more of the map is flooded giving you access to some new parts and the next could be low tide where there's much less water
There is a secret mechanic on Pìkmin 2, which decides which Pikmin are more likely to be eaten by an enemy. Usually, the more common types are the more likely to die: Red are more likely to die than yellow, yellow than purple, purple than white, white than Bulbmin, and Bulbmin than the unused Pik Pik carrots. The only exception is blues, which would normally be consider less common than reds and yellows, but are still the most likely to die. They are clearly not getting a buff.
Minor nitpick, Bulbmin acquired on the current sub-level have the highest priority, even more than Blues. The Bulbmin in your list are only the ones acquired on a prior sub-level.
@@UnlimitedRun Didn´t knew that, thanks
Pik pik carrots are used in the creature list you can access from the area select screen. You can throw carrots at the creatures.
@@thewhitefalcon8539 Yes but you can´t have it on your squad. That was what I was talking about.
@@UnlimitedRun Now we know which type the devs truly hate the most...
Remember when we thought Oatchi would completely nullify the use of blues in pikmin 4, then be pleasantly surprised to see blues actually have a pretty solid use in 4
yeah but i'm still better than those blue losers lmao
i think in the pre auto-lock era blue pikmin have an advantage that you don't really think about: room to fight. sure, take the mystic marsh sublevel, for example. there are a ton of enemies, and some can be taken out on the stumps, but it's far safer to use blues than it is to go in with purples. we have to ignore sprays, but the point is that often where there is a lot of water there is little room for combat with the land enemies because water is usually nearby to get in the way.
I’ll much rather just punch the enemies because it’s funnier that way
That's sonething I genuinely never thought of, but I think that's because I never took many risks with Pikmin.
Since day one my favorite Pikmin had been the Blue Pikmin. I don’t think that’ll ever change
After watching the silokwawk video I had the idea of a buff for blues. They could use their mouths to store water or some other liquid in their cheeks. Then they could spit it out. This could be used for all sorts of puzzles like making a scale by filling buckets with water, making a sponge grow to cross a platform, water a plant obstacle to make it grow to access something, or spitting water on a piece of ice to make a bridge. This could also be used for a small stun move on some enemies, and make any fire enemies lose their fire.
I actually like this idea since there could be an option to add puzzles where you need to synergize this ability with Ice pikmin, you care a certain amount of water to a set location, and then freeze it, allowing you to access that area or something
I feel that the Submerged Castle / Engulfed castle is the strongest counter to the idea that blues are somehow bad. I feel like in 1 they were intentionally designed for the purpose of water, but in every subsequent game their new purpose is what everyone seems to complain is a flaw.
In my eyes, the fact blue Pikmin have no unique gimmick outside of water immunity is the whole point. Underwater areas are a puzzle by their sheer existence, because you are required to strategize how to handle a particular problem with "base strength" Pikmin, or in other words a blank slate that you can't cheese the game with. The Submerged Castle is effectively your ultimate test of pure dandori ability by being put in a situation where you can't utilize gimmicks or resistances to cheese the game.
Also in case anyone forgot, in Pikmin 4 the blues actually can swim to chase down enemies and they appear to have a faster "hunting" speed under water than on land.
The thing is that other pikmin type aslo trive in ther environement. Red got it extra damage even too there are zone and underground with tons of fire damage. You could argue water the only ''undodgeable'' element, but Flying pikmin exist in 3 and in 4 we also got ice pikmin and the dog can safely carry other type over ponds of water.
Blues can swim in 3 as well
I find it really fascinating that Pikmin 3, the game where Blues are considered their undeniable worst, was also the game that buffed them by giving them their swim attack when charging underwater
they did allat and they STILL suck, just goes to show i'm still the KING
thank god for this. i'm tired of people saying that blue pikmin need to be buffed when it's obvious that the fact that they are both necessary in many areas and a major drain on available squad slots that could be used for pikmin with more appealing advantages is integral to making squad balance an interesting challenge and not just a no-brainer.
People slowly coming to grips with Pikmin being a puzzle game, not an RTS. :P
Blue pikmin are the base pikmin that has the special ability to "walk real good when ground is blue". Best pikmin
The addition of actual on-land hazards that only blues can traverse in P4 like the sprinklers is another reason why they feel better to use in that game, I remember thinking that in my playthrough that it was wild how it seemed like so much stuff in 4 would make blues completely obsolete but to me it felt like they were at their most interesting in terms of usage
I do agree about the whole three type limit thing being an issue, I don’t really hate it because it feels somewhat reasonable to limit you with seven different types of Pikmin plus oatchi at your disposal but there’s probably better ways of doing it (you can only have x number of a certain Pikmin type, maybe? Cap things out at 20-25 or something so you can’t just constantly depend on the strongest types? Idk)
There are eight types of Pikmin in Pikmin 4, not counting Glow Pikmin:
1. Red
2. Yellow
3. Blue
4. Purple
5. White
6. Rock
7. Winged
8. Ice
But yeah, I feel like they should’ve gone with a 5-type limit instead of 3.
@@brianhull2407 Honestly, I feel like having access to all of them would probably be a lot better. My thought process behind that is simple. If you're experienced enough to handle 8 types of pikmin in those small numbers, why not? Have fun bringing a proper squad when 100 has to be divided by 8. If you're not experienced, well you don't have to drag them all and unlike pikmin 2 caves, you do have access to the onions while underground.
Blue pikmin are basically the middle child of pikmin
Finally, my several comments of going over blues needing a buff have finally paid off with imonlyhereforpikmin deciding to make a video on blue pikmin!!
I am the happiest I've been in 6 months and WILL eat a glass bottle to celebrate my sudden burst of joy
Here's an idea: what if the naturally waterlogged Blue Pikmin attacking enemies caused them to become "slippery"? This would be a new status effect that would build up similar to the ice Pikmin's ability to freeze. When an enemy is slippery, they could have a chance to miss or otherwise fumble their attacks, causing Pikmin to simply get knocked over instead of getting eaten or other wise killed. This would be helpful for enemies which have high kill potential with single attacks, like the Soverign Bulblax. This would mean that Blue Pikmin would have a niche but apparent combat advantage making them useful for defeating certain enemies with less casualties. Bringing back life guard would also be helpful, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was forgotten about because it was a somewhat obscure mechanic.
I swear the only buff I think they need is a speed increase while in water
Yeah, the thing about Blue Pikmin is that, unlike literally every other type in the series, their usefulness is entirely dependent on level design. If there isn’t something that basically requires Blues, you might as well not use them. This is especially the case with Winged, Ice, and Glow Pikmin and Oatchie also offering ways to traverse water to some extent, even if Blues are usually best at dealing with anything underwater or large, deep pools of water.
I do think they could give Blue Pikmin one tiny added ability: increased defense. Maybe they could survive other hazards slightly longer than most other types that aren’t immune, including Gloom, they could have a chance of surviving explosions (if they aren’t right next to the bomb) and piercing/crushing attacks, enemies take longer to digest them than other types (i.e. you have a bit more time to save them by finishing off the enemy before they die), they have a chance to not be panicked or confused (and they’d shake it off faster), they pop out of bubbles faster, they have a chance to not stick to tongues and such (for Bloysters, the Emperor/Supreme Bulblax, etc.), and they are more likely to retain their flowers if shaken off. It wouldn’t be a _massive_ advantage (it’d only be a low chance of surviving crushing or piercing attacks or explosions, they wouldn’t survive a lot longer than others when eating or inflicted with some sort of hazard, they’d still be guaranteed to die instantly in the explosion if they’re directly next to the bomb, and they are still likely to get panicked or confused), but it’d at least be something they’d have that doesn’t depend _entirely_ on level design. It’s also based on how they work in Super Smash Bros., where hazards aren’t really a thing; rather than inflicting water damage (like the Reds inflict fire damage, Yellows inflict electric damage, and Whites inflict poison damage), and not having the already canonical secondary advantages of the others (Reds deal the second-most amount of damage per hit, Yellows have a higher and longer arc, Whites weigh Olimar down less when flying and attack more frequently, and Purples deal the most damage, hitstun, and knockback of any type but are heavier (for when Olimar is flying) and slower than the others, don’t get thrown as far or as high, and don’t latch onto enemies like the others), Blues simply have a higher defense than the others, so they can take more punishment without dying. It also fits with how much abuse they take in official artwork.
I think blue pikmin don’t need a buff, they’re really good depending on the environment they’re placed in. I think people just find them boring to use which I can’t really argue with. I think they’re the most fun to use when it comes to managing your types and numbers, but they’re less fun when it comes to actually fighting or collecting.
They can be really fun to use when you’re dealing with obstacles they *aren’t* equipped to deal with i.e. submerged castle.
That true for other pikmin too. Red get extra damage even too they perform well in cave or zone with intense ammount of fire damage.
@@magikazam8430 The difference is fights with reds are shorter due to the damage, yellows have that additional factor of being thrown super far which does sometimes come in handy. These are two factors that make the others "fun". Blues advantage is just being able to access areas others cannot. This can be a fantastic design, but in pikmin often feels like it's not there, which is a problem. It's there, it just doesn't feel like it.
You can feel the reds increased attack, you have to plan around yellows being flung super far. You rarely notice the blues ability to survive water. That and 3 and 4 add in other methods to deal with water as well, making that advantage feel less relevant in treasures too.
it's such a shame that the second amendment blue pikmin are lost media
Blue pikmin made my wife leave me 😢
I did it for your own good
@@Pikminbro good job troop
Does that mean, your marriage is...
LOST MEDIA
now you can have an happy life
thank you, blue pikmin
@@Pikminbro o7
I'm not sure how nintendo is going to juggle all of these pikmin types with new ones in the upcoming games. Pikmin 4 already has a bunch of near useless pikmin types so I don't know how the next game will fare. Perhaps they could have three separate captains with specific pikmin that only reunite at certain points or end of the game?
Or the onions stay in their respective area, forcing you to only use types that are native to that map
I feel the best solution is to just not make two new min every game for a start
@Skullhawk13 i mean, pikmin 4 had 1.5 new pikmin, glow pikmin are basically just bulbmin 2.0. so in terms of "main" types its just ice that are new.
@@Sandromatic I mean to a degree. Ice min tho probably shouldn’t return for the same reason they discontinued bitter spray. Stuns too strong
@@Skullhawk13 If the freeze was a slow effect instead of an outright stun, probably wouldn't be too strong.
One thing I always though was that Blue Pikmin should be able to survive hazards for longer. I think it fits that while they might not be the best for a challenge, they can be good for multiple different challenges that are back to back. I also like the idea that Blues are more defensive. They were on the brink of extinction, but they refused to die.
The inclusion of the cries of the entire tympole line of Pokémon was an absolutely breathtaking choice in editing
Pikmin 3 apparently had a cut area which was full of water like the distant spring.
This is why blue pikmin are just kinda introduced in garden of hope in a very small area.
The thing about blues is that in an other rpg or tactics game they would fit the bill of a utility unit. An easy way of explaining it is the thief in an rpg. The thief sucks at fighting & can’t do anything a warrior or mage could for dealing with an enemy. They’re generally sub par for someone who takes up a party slot. But the reason they’re picked is well…picking. Lock picking (or stealing too but locks are better for the analogy). If you encounter a locked chest or door? Tough shit. You need something from a chest to get the best result of the quest? You need the thief. This forces you to use him at the cost of just picking your strongest bros imaginable & punching everyone to death.
The value comes from how much the devs lean into this. BioWare has two perfect examples for both ends of the spectrum.
On the one hand is tali in mass effect 1, if you didn’t pick a class that can hack locks & computers, you’ll probably need her. She’s a character with low bulk & a close range focus so in a fight typically the guy who’s skin is made of metal or the literal mix between a rhino & a reptile man is gonna be better but with only 2 slots someone is going to need to do that job. Multiple quests need that job. So she’s incredibly useful because the circumstances necessitate a utility dedicated option.
On the other end you have mission in KOTOR. She is also a bad fighter who specs into security as a skill exclusively. Security is a lock picking skill that lets you disarm mines too. Mines don’t do much damage and anything you can pick you can just smash open with zero consequences other than you lose stealth. Which isn’t that helpful. So picking her versus the guy with a laser sword that can shoot lightning out of every cell of his body is a pretty lopsided choice.
It’s not even make water more prevalent, it’s make water the point of something for blues. The choice shouldn’t actually be “how many slots are you giving up for blues” it actually should be the inverse; “how many slots can you dedicate to non blues”. Blues should be what an initial plan should be built around theoretically with the rest being there to compensate for when they finally aren’t super relevant in order to make them more “powerful.”
For Pikmin 5, I would get rid of the three types limit for caves and bring back the hazards indicator from Pikmin 2. I'd also keep the "suggested" types, but merely for the types necessary to collect everything in a cave. If for example a cave suggests Red and Yellow Pikmin but also includes Poison and Crushing as hazards, it means that White and Rock Pikmin are useful but not required.
I feel a weird buff you could give blue pikmin is making them harder for enemies to shake off. Since blue pikmin have to pick up and move things underwatwr, I think it'd make sense that they would have a better grip and endurance than other pikmin.
Blue Pikmin are entirely dependant on the area unlike other pikmin types, so they do come off as awful in games that utilize water poorly (3 and 4 hello) because their job can either be done by someone else or there just is nothin for them to do.
Pikmin 1 for instance is so overloaded with water that once you get blues, they will be your main for the rest of the game. Once you bypass the fire geysers in the Navel, they go beddy bye. I legitimately cannot remember the last time I used Reds in the Distant Spring - as you said, the more reds I have the less Blues I can use in the water.
Pikmin 3/4 on the other hand have so many ways to deal with water (Wings/Oatchi) and blues are introduced late, that they feel SO less useful.
yeah in the Distant Spring, you mainly use Red's to handle the few land area's since you are dealing with some of the strongest and tankiest foes in the game, where as almost every ship part in the area requires Blue's to obtain
@@bulborb8756 They are good for that but if I have all my Blues as flowers, 80-100 blues is well plenty to destory Bulbears and the like. I just keep it simple and use Blue only
@@toon10001two i guess, but yellows are just needed for the UV Lamp and opening up paths...and thats the extent of their use there since Yellows are next to useless in Pikmin 1
@@bulborb8756bomb rocks are bar none the best way to beat Bulblax. If yellows are useless it’s a Dandori issue
I'd just give them a constant combat trait, like 25-50% to not die to eating attacks because they are slippery, making them defensive
I did not need to get jumpscared like that from the alarm 😭😭
If the Red Pikmins is doing ×1.5 damage, and the Yellow Pikmins more around utility, perhaps the Blue ones could have a focus on survival or tanking. They could handle more damage before dying (or the enemy taking more time before defeating them), be able to survive or endure hazard more easily. They could have a "coolness" to them by being able to overcome panic effect or being sometimes immune from it like being disciplined and loyal when facing creature such as an Iridescent Beetle or an Antenna Beetle.
Plus it aligns why they are always the "victim" in promotion arts: they are in fact Paladin, willing to sacrifice themselves instead to save their family!
If blue pikmin continue to be overshadowed and overlooked, they might become lost media,,,,,,,,
AAAHHH-!
There could've been some cool puzzles that expanded on their life guard ability, a pikmin that can throw other pikmin has some potential.
I get why they have a type limit in Pikmin 4 (managing 8 types would be a hassle), but a 3-type limit is too restrictive. If they’re going to have one, it should be a 5-type limit. In every other game, you could do 5 types at once, meaning you could have 20 of each type in a squad; why not here? (Seriously, my pseudo-OCD is bothered by the fact that I can’t divide my squad evenly into the max number of types I can have out at once.)
Having a full stack should be a personal choice. I don't need to have all 8 types at once, and if the game does what pikmin 2 did (in the caves having what hazards are there) I can easily plan around that. That's how I feel about it.
The lifeguard ability is something I have never used. I didn't even know it existed until seeing a whistleless challenge. It's a really cool ability, but it's almost entirely useless if you can press the B button
There are a few spots where it's easy for pikmin to fall in the water, and not have an easy route out. Like if they fall into the water near the Snagrets in 1, or the wrong side of the island in Awakening Woods. It's incredibly niche, but does have practical uses in normal gameplay.
Man as a blue pikmin fan myself I hate that they have to got through this but in pikmin 4 when I get blue pikmin I never touched the other types until the game forces me to do
You need blues to unlock "purple Pikmin" in Pikmin 1 so that's another plus
I've never really thought of Blue Pikmin being that bad solely because water is such a more immense hazard than any other. Pikmin can avoid fire geisers or electric wires, but there's not a ton that can be done for a pool of water, it makes you rethink something as simple as navigation. Blues being able to swim after prey through a charge is also huge and something people easily forget about. It's a pink Pikmin without the damage nerf.
That said, I think removing the lifeguard ability was such a bad decision. You said it's not very useful, but I think that's only the case in passive moments. When you're in combat near an enemy, just quickly tossing a blue Pikmin over to save him rather than leaving the battle to tweet it back to shore really helps with saving time, in my last Pikmin 2 playthrough I used it quite a bit, it's nice to save on time.
I do have a differing opinion on the three Pikmin limit. You make an excellent point on player choice, especially with Pikmin 1 examples, but it's easy for players to just grab one of every Pikmin not knowing what hazards there are, and when there are so many Pikmin, it'd be frustrating to go in a new world with just twelve Pikmin only to not have enough for basic tasks. But maybe that's the point of the recommended three. Increasing the cap would've been a great end-game reward too, when types don't matter as much since the worlds would have had hazards cleared, and Pikmin with physical attributes are more useful (purples, pinks, and whites), but you want to be wary of any staggering hazards that might still be around. This happened to me in Hero's Hideaway, pinks are amazing there due to its verticality but I got surprised by an ice enemy I was powerless against without ice Pikmin.
7:57 Press A: oh you want blue Pikmin to suck? OH I CAN HELP WITH THAT
I was starting to think you became LOST MEDIA, but I'm glad you're back!
The juxtaposition of Miyamoto Sama's friendly smile and the gun-toting Pikmin is hilarious.
With blues the only ways i can see them getting better is if they either drown the entire map, make them slip out of enemies when whistled, or make transportation of materials harder. Drowning the map ruins the fun of using other pikmin, making them slip out makes you use them more and makes sure you wont lose as many pikmin due to accidents, and transportation honestly should be harder than having the pikmin already have a predetermined quick and easy path. Make some paths slippery like ice and/or slime or have hazards everywhere and make certain paths only work certain types of pikmin.
Just give em a ranged attack instead of melee when on land.
I think the lifeguard ability is actually pretty underrated-- if you're in a cave and trying to deal with an enemy that calls for a certain type of pikmin, and they just happen to be near water, then you can toss a bunch of Blues willy-nilly into the water to create a pretty ironclad "safety net"; It can remove a lot of the confusion and stress from fighting enemies near water knowing you don't need to worry about whistling and throwing off your offensive flow if a few Purples fall in by accident when the enemy shakes them off or whatever
I think they should give blue pikmin a 1.5-2x damage multiplier in water and keep their damage penalty on land. It would make them more viable in water while still keeping their role as spot fillers
high quality pikmin videos??? weekly???
Something I'd like to see for blue pikmin is the introduction to new mechanics having to do with water. Maybe blues could somehow transport water to use for puzzle solving for example. Maybe some of these puzzles could even occur over multiple days: think irrigating plants that grow later to form a bridge over a gap. Or just going back to the idea of blues being able to transport water, it could allow blues to, situationally, be able to deal with fire obstacles. Some levels/puzzles could be designed to take advantage of that new role consolidation.
Been saying this since I first heard the cry for blue Pikmin buffs, thank you for the very cathartic video.
your sound design here terrifies me when I’m using you as bg noise to play games to (it’s 4 am here). Good video :)
Red for more damage, yellow for hitting airborne enemies more easily, and blue for attacking water enemies
even in pickled men i cant escape from touhou😭
They don't need a buff. They serve their purpose just fine.
Every other pikmin serves their purpose but have a secondary bonus unrelated to their primary purpose. Why should Blue arbitrarily not?
8:02 It's even worse than that: you don't need blues to take back the fruit, you only need them to break down the wall. If you want, you can take that down with just one Blue Pikmin and a Bomb Rock.
It would be nice to see more utilisation of the blues or even some cross-species pikmin colaberation as a "buff"- maybe they could get lifeguard back and... unironically a gun or rather a spit attack while in/after leaving water. Dont make it too strong but let them cleanse other pikmin of afflictions and do some ranged attacks on elemental enemies (put out fire enemies, discharge eletric, cleanse poision enemies, knock down flying enemies) you could keep it low amounts of shots per pikmin, maybe even have it be tied to their flower tier (like 4-10 each maybe at most) that way EVERY squad would be better off having *some* amount of blue pikmin as long as there is water/water enemies along the path.
I know for most afflictions the player can just call the aflicted and itll heal them, like with lifegard, which I think would help keep that side in check because it means if you are fighting, lets say a big poision boss that makes puddles, you could have that be a blue and white focused (but not forced) fight where it does an opening after enough time or an evniromental puzzle is solved or a bomb is thrown or that- or you could have your blues douse it so your combat focused pikmin (purples/reds/rock/ice) can force the cycle earlier while white does initial distraction chip damage
I'd like it if they doubled-down on the blue pikmin's old "lifeguard" behavior. Give them the ability to spit water, dealing low damage but being able to hit enemies (with a low potential of distracting them, though an enemy would become resistant to this over time) & other targets without being thrown. They could also do this at other pikmin automatically to extinguish them if they are burning.
Maybe even give them a longer "survival window" if eaten, so you have better chance at preventing their deaths if they get eaten (an inverse to the red pikmin's increased damage).
Then all you need to do is add more shortcut areas and/or triggers underwater that require blue pikmin to trigger.
pikmin of the blue variety
Thanks
I always had a random idea that blue pikmin were an optional pikmin type
like similar to zelda games where some items are completely optional to beat the game but obtaining them would open up new secrets to collect
just food for thought.
Well I never played a Pikmin game, but I played Overlord: Raising Hell and it's sequel. There you have 4 types of minions. Browns, which melee beatsticks, reds which are ranged, greens who wre your assassins and blues, your supports. The first came out in 2007, 6 years after the first pikmin game. It's been described as pikmin in theory, dungeon keeper in practice.
In that game series it's normal to bring only a nominal amount of blues anywhere as these guys are weak, magic immune and can walk through water where all other minions drown. They are your most important tools for a lot of puzzles, the sewer level in the first game in particular comes to mind. You can't enter the level with anything but blue minions. But bring too many and you have a problem. Just getting a fighting force of brown minions is somewhat of a puzzle in that level, as you have to use your blues revival ability to even get them.
From the description, blue pikmin aren't bad. They just aren't used well in the level design.
One buff Blue pikmin could get while keeping their reliance on water is give them the samr ability vaporeon has: make them invisible when wet. No random pot shots,or pulling aggro, and they gain immunity to shake off counter attacks
4:02 that bulborb is either having the best sleep of its life or a horrific nightmare and I can’t tell which lmao
I feel like it would be cool to give blue, red and yellow pikmin some type of elemental buff just like ice. Even if it's temporary or on a resource based system it would be neat to have them deal fire damage/electric and water pikmin could slow, drown or slip up enemies or something. They'd have a lot more combat potential this way and it could even work into puzzles
8:53 i regularly quote this because of this channel
This video should be renamed Blue Pikmin are "Brussel Sprouts”.
At the end, the comment about blue pikmin being targeted more often, it's actually been discovered that it's a quirk with the game and how you pull out pikmin from the onions, at least in pikmin 1.
The typical player pulls red > yellow > blue from the onions, since that's how you discover them so that's what you're used to doing.
Enemies attacks, when they hit multiple pikmin, prioritize the pikmin you've pulled from onions last.
Since that's typically blue, they get targeted more often.
Repeat it with pulling reds last, and reds are the first ones to be nommed.
4:42 yeah i hate how my whole pikmin squad gets demolished it took me so long to do :/
I think a fun way to give blue pikmin something extra to make them feel more cool would be something that's unique but that doesn't really convey a true advantage - something like how white pikmin can detect hidden buried treasures.
Pikmin 5: blue Pikmin now have guns.
Specifically those old muskets that hold 1 shot and take a full minute to reload.
10:25 If only you uploaded this 6 days ago this music would have been such a great easter egg!
THIS HAHA
I feel like the people who scream the most for Blue Pikmin to get buffed are the same people who get their minds blown when you tell/remind them that Pikmin is a Real-Time Strategy game.
For the best pikmin experience I feel yes 3 type limit should be removed hands down and auto select. If a buff must be given to blue pikmin (which honestly I feel they are fine as is) then give them a small speed buff underwater, not as fast as white flowers but faster then normal flowered pikmin. Yellows are fine as is but the level design would need to be tweaked imo. Electricity should have never been changed from instakill, and we can implement more of the lighting up rooms ability. Perhaps have the solar system not available and instead keep floors dim normally, yet also have floors get either progressively darker as you get lower or have some rooms that are just naturally darker thus encouraging the player to bring yellows for hazard removal and more layout vision. I'd also mention purples as I like how they are in pikmin 2. Keep them rare and powerful, yet refrain from having doomsday apparatus levels of carry weight or atleats if we must have that make getting purples easier yet still rare, or make losing not as detrimental (could be done by changing pop-buds from 5 pikmin to 10)
There is actually one buff I would give blue Pikmin but only centered towards combat so that bringing them into water focused areas doesn't restrict them to only carrying stuff, and it's by making them sticky. By sticky, I mean giving them a stat that makes them far less likely to be shaken off creatures, which would allow them to keep doing damage when every other type gets flung off and made vulnerable. This overall makes them just as suitable for combat as Reds since less of them would be less likely to die if you just leave them with a creature and act as a damage supplement for Reds in situations like the Engulfed/Submerged Castle where Reds are entirely absent, but they obviously can't be spammed like Reds because of their lower damage.
A blue pikmin once punched me in the stomach and I was winded. He was also quite derogatory to my appearance as he walked away and I wanted to cry but that would only make him stronger.
Fun fact: if not for an invisible wall blocking the Quagled Mureclops that doesn't go away until you unlock blue Pikmin, you could beat Pikmin 3 without Blue Pikmin
How to make blue pikmin more useful:
-add more water hazrds
-make elemental hazards only break for a short time.
-add more enemies that shoot water on land (no nintendo, one watery blowhog is not enough)
-make several shortcuts that only blues can take that wings cant take either
- random puddles to make large areas feel smaller and cramped for non blues
-bring back lifeguarding
-give blues the perk of having greater grip strength so they dont get shaken off as easily as other types
-more areas where water can shift / change levels (use the soft dirt/mud mechanic more)
-something similar to bamboo gates for winged pikmin but instead like a water valve that only blues can keep open or active
-water traps in caves (random streams of water flowing, water droplets, or water constantly rising or lowering)
-hide valuable / farmable loot in underwater dirt mounds rather than on land. (daily respawn)
I love that the final cave for Pikmin 4, Cavern for a King, really wants you to use blue Pikmin in it, despite the fact that they're rarely useful there and ice Pikmin are more helpful overall in that cave.
Theres the fact that in 3 blues are extinct. You just find a dormant onion unlike the others.
Honestly, this might already be a thing, but a simple buff to blues would be : Let them walk normally in mud and low water zones like puddles etc and makes so all other types of Pikmins are slowed down (except flying ofc) this could be useful for them in general for carrying things back to the base, (an example is the fall inspired zone in 4 where there are puddles of mud at several spots) and bring back the lifguard ability but for 1 blue you can save 3 other pikmins and buff the drowning rate/ make the fact that pikmins are saved faster by blues than they are by the whistle
I've always said it, the issue are not blue Pikmin, but the level design.
That said, I'd nerf and buff winged a bit in order to fix this blue conundrum even further, one, I'd make winged slower when carrying a treasure but bring back their smart shortcut-taking path-finding from 3 back, this would make them good for taking shortcuts but non-optimal if the treasure you are aiming for is on a straight line or other types are better suited to take that same shortcut (for example, a small puddle). However, I'd make it so that if the treasure is small in size, this debuff isn't as severe, this to make some treasure still be optimally carried by winged Pikmin, this would include gold nuggets and 1 or 2 weight treasure, of course in some circumstances other types could be better, but that would depend on certain details.
This would also make Winged a bit more interesting and routing a bit deeper, it might be optimal to for example, use a couple of winged to bring a treasure over a wall or ledge and later on call them back in order for other type to take the wheel once the shortcut has been passed, basically make winged the "slow but safe" option.
As for level design, levels do need a lot more shortcuts locked behind water.
I think part of the reason so many people want blue pikmin buffed is because a lot of people in gaming spaces seem to have an idea that balancing begins and ends with making everything equally good and not making it so everything accomplishes its goal as it is designed to. Blues don't need rebalancing in 1 and 2 because, as you pointed out, the purpose of them in game design is to provide utility but no benefits beyond that. They have a purpose, and they serve it well and as designed, even if they do end up worse than the others, I'd say they're well balanced.
2:41
Me who not only never uses Red Pikmin in the Distant Spring but also only ever uses like 10 Yellow Pikmin max there as well.
(It's surprisingly pretty easy to avoid all the Bulbears)
Pikmin 3's biggest issue was that cut level it was a heavily water based level where you would have found the blues
Coupla quick thoughts on the topic:
1) The most salient point in the video is that Blues are boring in all incarnations. What is the use of an element in a game if it just takes away the interest? Argueably there's purpose to breathers and slow-downs in order to pace the frenetic action and thereby make it more emphatic and impactful, but that's hardly occurring with Blues.
2) It is broadly true, but speaks to a lack of awareness among the fanbase, that they stop at saying that Blues need "a buff" instead of a more precise or articulate term. Buffs can take many forms, and lots of potential buffs wouldn't address the problem or even make it worse. Blues need more and broader uses, traits outside of their narrow elemental field, not just a blunt stat boost or an overpowered new ability.
3) Nintendo in general seems to have a weakness with water in their games. They love including and even inserting it where it does not belong, as if they have an undue fascination with water. Imagine that Nintendo has a water fetish, and they just see "more water" as a good thing, no matter how flimsy the justification. Hence the Water Temple in Ocarina of Time, the sailing in Wind Waker, Mario Sunshine's entire existence etc. etc.. Nintendo's implementation of water isn't bad on the whole, there are many great water levels and features, but it seems a frequent point of unusually and puzzling failure in their game design. (Nintendo are much worse at designing shields and other defensive elements but they're never really "pushed" like water is either so it's okay)
14:34 forgotten to mention electricy was slightly buffed so that non yellow/glow pikmin will die from it if not whistle in time
If Blue Pikmin were given their own ability then the other types of Pikmin would need new hazards to go along with it. Like Red Pikmin being able to walk across hot surfaces or Yellow Pikmin across charged surfaces.
I think the reason people started to begin wishing they got an attack was Pikmin 2 having way flashier fights and most Pikmin having an use in a fight except blue who only did good against water enemies left them feeling like the most useless type, with people at least forgiving red basically being the same but with fire because of issues out of that types control (being outclassed by purple pikmins overtuning).
Only now I realized the Touhou music in the background... You sly komainu
10:27 my favourite type of pikmin is CIRNO
THE STRONGEST FAIR- I MEAN PIKMIN
After watching pikmin 1 speedruns i realized that blue pikmin are the "basic pikmin" not reds which you alway get first.
In all games the defining trait of blues is not drowning, and otherwise they have normal damage, carry speed, and weight. Also they die first because the order of operations of the damage calcs.
The utility of this defining trait is entirely up to map design. Similar to yellows being thrown higher, and reds walking through fire geysers (unkillable in pikmin 1).
Something i have noticed in pikmin 1 speedruns is that if no other type is required like yellows to reach a ledge or bomb down a wall, then you fill up your squad with blues once available.
In pikmin 2's submerged castle that only lets you bring blues this fact is emphasized. Blues can do basically everything, not necessarily as well, but they get the job done.
It would also be cool if there were areas with shallow water that other pikmin types move through slowly. So you COULD use reds or yellows or something, but its better to use blues to save time
I was chewing on my toes until imonlyhereforpikmin posted
Fella whar
Honestly, I always feel like people approach blue pikmin with the wrong mindset. It’s all about options, and how to best deligate tasks to do each day. Sure, even on pikmin 4 where oatchi CAN pull anything out of the water eventually, and you have ice and winged pikmin to go ACROSS water, if you deligate ice pikmin to freeze it for other pikmin to cross, or winged pikmin to fly over it, that’s less pikmin you have to do other tasks you may also need to do in that area. No pikmin is ever going to be a catch all solution for every problem (Pikmin challenge runs with only one pikmin type quickly prove such), but if people don’t feel like blue pikmin do enough, I think I have a simple, but effective buff that would make them more viable. Make them move at white pikmin speed while in water. I think that’s all they would need really.
I think the lack of secondary traits or crazy abilites is why I really like blue pikmin. They help in exploring a change environment or a puzzle, not obliterate everything in their path. You kind of have to think when using them.
They are also blue and have a cute mouth.