Explained: The Ingenious Strategy Behind United Airlines' Delayed Purchase Of The Boeing 777-300ER
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2023
- The Boeing 777-300ER, the most popular variant of the world's largest twinjet, served as the workhorse of most long-haul fleets during the second half of the 2000s and the first half of the 2010s. Flying first with Air France in 2004, the variant has sold over 900 units and served airlines across the globe.
Some carriers are even synonymous with the type, providing flagship services on the jet alone. American Airlines' Flagship First product is only available on 777-300ERs, and Air France's La Premiere can only be found on these aircraft.
One major carrier, the US giant United Airlines, turned down the opportunity to order the aircraft for over a decade, despite a variety of incentives to make a purchase. While more and more carriers filled their long-haul fleets with the -300ER, United remained a holdout.
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A little surprised that this video didn't mention the fact that United was the launch customer for the original 777.
That was indeed a marvelous contract between Boeing and united, the manufacturer had to build an aircraft for x amount MTOW, with x range etc in certain period of time. Boeing had a GM called Alan Mullaly or some thing like that who was important individual in the 777 program. 777 the Gold Standard in aviation safety. 21 st Century aircraft, manufactured at the end of 20th Century.
@@omerbinsaadat4973 Friendly amendment: At the time of the order Mulally was only the Chief Engineer for the project -- he would later go on to become CEO. And I only know that because I am a frequent repeat-viewer of the fantastic five-part PBS series about it, "21st Century Jet."
ruclips.net/video/0oyWZjdXxlw/видео.html
@@CinemaDemocratica Actualy Alan Mulally was CEO of Boeing Commercial Aviation (BCA) not for as CEO for the entire Boeing company. After Condit and Stonecipher were booted from the company, Mulally was unfortunately passed over after an internal struggle and then he went to Ford which was a total loss for Boeing. Boeing then had other CEOS afterwards which brought down morale and the company went into a decline in terms of quality as we saw with the 787 program and the 737max program.
Yeah…… this channel is pretty weak
Considering that one of United Airlines’s founders was William Boeing, this is a great case study!
Some airlines have 2 blocks of 777-300ERs comprising of older 777-300ERs and newer ones. Examples include Korean Air, British Airways, and Air Canada
The retirement timeline for the 747-400 probably played an intricate role in the decision. It was a no brainer not to buy the A380. It just wasn't practical or feasible. But seeing how closely United had worked with Boeing in the past, it only makes sense that UA had an inkling the 777x program would take longer than expected. So they went with the smart buy.
Doubt it had an "inkling" on the 777X delays. This was way back in 2015. They needed the new planes quickly and didn't want to wait on the 777-9 even if it were close to the original 2020 scheduled delivery.
A handful of 747-800’s would be smashing in their fleet. Crews were still qualified, techs still familiar, and they would slide into the four or six routes where the 747 worked wonderfully. Get fifteen years out of them, by which time Boeing would either remove their flight decks from their APU’s, or Airbus’s newest model hits the skies.
United Airlines' order was for the A350-900, which has a lower capacity than the 777-300ER, therefore if capacity is the goal, the 777-9 is the most logical choice, not to mention fleet commonality.
While they may not need the aircraft right away, their strategy to hold out for a big discount won't work with the 777-9 because they will need that capacity sooner than later and not want to be caught up in a backlog. Once the 777-9 goes into service, Boeing will get more orders so I suspect that United will be more proactive this time.
Also, they got the great price on the 300ER because Boeing had announced the X program. Neither Boeing nor Airbus will be concentrating on large aircraft development over the next decade; it will be small to medium sized clean sheet replacements for the 737, A320, 757 and 767.
@@davidsilver4339 With the current slate of widebody aircraft, nobody will need new ones until the late 2030's. The 777-9 is going to be successful, and it's going to force Airbus to either stretch the A350, or cede that sector to Boeing much as Boeing did with the midsize aircraft sector to Airbus.
@rokie-sensei The 787-9 doesn't have the capacity of the 777-200, let alone the 300ER. The A350-900 will slot between the 787-9 and the 777-9 since it's bigger than the 787-9.
1:00 Swiss also waited quite long with the 777-300ER. They also got their first plane in 2016.
They were early operators of the A380 but phased it out after not very long, iirc
@@arjunyg4655 No Swiss never operated the 380. That was parent LH.
@@johniii8147 Pretty sure they did it when they were still Swissair. Just like the A340-600 that the airline never received due to financial difficulties
@@Kuricang31 Nope. They never ordered the 380.
@@Kuricang31Swissair went bankrupt in 2002, and the A380 eis was in late 2007 so that doesn’t match up
The B777-300ER is an awesome long haul aircraft!
Personally I think the a350 1000 would have been a better buy, but I guess no one really cares as much about operating costs when you get a massive discount on the upfront purchase
The logistics which had to be changed?
No fleet commonality with an A350 purchase for United, which already had several dozen 777s on hand. Coupled with the purchase discount, the 773 makes more sense despite the A350-1000’s better operating economics.
Pilot and maintenance staff training alone would have cost United a lot.
It's just like Detla buying the end of the line of the A321CEOs and the 737-900ers. The manufacturers have made thier money and just need to keep the lines going until the new model gets up to speed.
It made sense for UA in fleet compatibility, quick availability, and price. Fuel burn is but one variable.
I recently flew on UA’s 777-300ER, Premier Plus, from Newark to Brussels. It was pleasant In every way.
It was interesting that the United's new contact proposal for pilots listed pay for pretty much every airplane in commercial service or in development. If United were to pick up some cheap A380s, they is a payscale for it. Even though there are no plans for that, a new pilot's contract wouldn't be the holdup if things changed.
That's normal. Saves them from having to negotiate with pilots again should they choose a new fleet type. Smart move given how long those negotiations take.
American is also doing the same thing with their new pilot contract
Buying an end of production run aircraft for a significant discount is a classic Delta move.
Yes definitely as well as flying very old planes like the MD-88 and MD-90 until 2020
Great video!
That is very cool jet engineering. Just flew in one recently.
American and United 777 - awesome set - up ! Love to fly on them . Great
I also read that they are gonna use this to their new route SFO-MNL.
Good point CinemaDemocratica. Nothing beats the “Boss”. Can’t wait to see those 777x’s with all the liveries.
I’m gonna ride in the 777 ER for the first time soon. Excited.
After watching this video, I think United is planning perfectly for that outcome.
I believe United is more focused on their 737MAX and 787 order they just placed. I think replacing their domestic -200’s would be best done by the 787-10 as both are primarily regional aircraft in the long haul sector. The -200ER’s I would split with the 787-9 and A350-900’s, the -300ER’s by the -1000, the 787-10 lacking in range and capacity.
They won't be taking the 350s most likely. The HWG version is actually a prefect replacement for the 777-200ERs. Equivalent range and capacity.
777 ER best damn plane since the 747 launch
American airlines Flasghsip First is also available on the 321T
Not for much longer. It's being eliminated as the 321NEOXLR's are delivered. Flagship F is being eliminated on those routes and international over the next 1-2 years. That was announced awhile ago. It was all upgrades or miles anyway.
I bet United's delay on the A350 delivery dates is to try and take advantage of negotiate a better deal when the model is about to be phased out.
Brice all the way from Zimbabwe
Hello my brother. I also think of they are to ever take delivery of the a350s, they'd have prepared probably in terms of pilots and it could replace the 777-200ERs that will be well over 20yrs old by the time currently stated f9r a350s
@@Tpr_1808They would have to order 70+ units, since that’s how many 772s they have, and train a lot of pilots to fly those 70+ aircraft. I don’t know if they’re going to do that just yet.
@@picklerick_404 Probably by then they'll see if they like them enough to add to the order if it still exists
You would be wrong about that. the 350 isn't going anywhere for decades yet.
@@johniii8147OP never said when UA will receive the A350, they likely will push the order back.
Their A350 order is purely for narrowbody leverage as United will never take it on and eventually cancel it
Yep that's the real scenario.
Nice to hear but will any of these planes lower airfare costs?
Smart, and now they can wait on the 777x 9, scrap the A350 order so they don’t have to pay for airbus wide body type training.
I will like to see united has the boeing 777x a330neo
Boeing didn't stop the production of the 777-300ER until 2021. So, let's expect the Boeing 777-300ER to continue service for a couple more decades. I've flown on that type of widebody jet several times with EVA Airways and Philippine Airlines as a passenger.
Singapore 🇸🇬 Airlines Has Ordered Boeing 777-9X 30 firm orders to replace All the Older Boeing 777-200ER And 777-300 types.
As a United FA, these are the two things that have been told to me by pilots about commercial aircraft:
1. Get rid/replace the 737. It’s too old and have a cramped cockpit. They much rather fly the A320 family
2. Bring back the 757 or save the ones they do have for as long as possible
Agreed as a former United retired mechanic of 39 years those B737 Max is a horrible aircraft with limited back up systems and very difficult to repair and maintain Yes United got a good deal purchasing this garbage but in the long run will cost them more in the long run in delays and cancellation as this new Max is really about 40 years old ,all Boeing did was putting lipstick on a pig new engines and avionics but this airframe is the same design and technology of the past 40 years unlike the Airbus although I prefer Boeing aircraft except the B737 and all variants of it Yes Boeing should have developed the B757 as this old aircraft was leap years of its design especially the wings for high speed and lifting capability but that’s my 2 cents and so glad I retired from being abused all those years
@mikethompson3534 finally someone other than me is hating on what I like to call a shit bird. As a plane spotter who loves the sound of roaring engines taking off, the 737 MAX make me wish I was deaf. The sound of new winning engines compared to current/old roaring engines sound worse than babies crying. The next generation aircraft are only getting worse and worse.
As a united employee they will NEVER get rid of the 737s! Thats our work horse fleet and the best narrow body we have! I am ok with us replacing the aged out 757s with a321 neo though! Neos willl be a game changer for us im retrospect
@@g4orce703 They already did phase it out once. There were 0 737s in UA's fleet prior to the merger. It's CO's 737s they are now flying and the new additions since. That said, UA has clearly committed to the 737 again since Boeing gave them a sweetheart deal on such large orders.
A320s are good for passenger and pilot experience but a Hell on Earth for airlines. The cargo limit and constant fuel leaks was a great money drainer for the company in the long run. Compare that to 737s that can be used with minimum ground equipment and great cargo space, which is why Continental uses them on their Island Hopper flights across the Pacific
my best bet would be new 777's or 787's
How com point to point is become more popular ?
777-300ER in the Philippines is only found in the Philippine Airlines and they are to be replaces once the A350-1000 deal is confirmed....
PAL executives are saying that the A350 1000 are not to replace the 777-300ER but to complement those. It much make sense to complement them than replace them as PAL is replenishing its lost A350 900s and are aiming to expand its network.
@@britamericaball2505 PAL is considering the 777X but the delays in the development have hampered the potential order....once its up, then PAL would consider it....
So In Conclusion, the A350-1000's will not totally replace PAL's 777-300ER's.
Their executives will still order the 777-9 or 777-8 if they wish.
So PAL will have a mix of Airbus and Boeing wide-bodies.
@@ajmillendez478 the problem on the boeing side is the delays in developing the new 777x, yes the development started again but by then its too late....
Only aircraft used by United into my local airport in Edinburgh are old 757/767.
We never see any of the new stuff.
i mean make sense, edinburgh is a smaller city compared to other destinations and only the east cost hubs fly to edinburgh. Meaning they need mid-long range planes not long range planes such as the 777-200 or -300
Imho we like the 777 but LOVE the 787.
The 777 needs upgraded bc and FC seating and pods
United doesn't offer international F
@@johniii8147 Precisely!
@@iceman9678 They don't need international F anymore. J is so good now and only improving F is thing of the past on many carriers.
United first ordered the 350 back in 2010
But they still haven't taken delivery of a single one, and it's likely they won't. They keep delaying the orders every few years.
It's a game of politics. The threat of Boeing losing one of their biggest customers is United's attempt at getting a better plane
Its an interesting strategy.
If the Airbus a350 was selected that means more cost:
1). Per Airframe
2). Training
3). Unique Equipment (if any)
4). Rework of routes to match the market demand.
Sticking to 2 or 1 particular type of Aircraft especially if they've been recently built is a mony saver.
I miss United's 747-400s.
Could you imagine going to your local ford dealer and buying a new 2011 Taurus in 2023
"Have You Flown A Boeing Lately?"
Watched half this video. I could have summarised it in three seconds. They got them cheap.
Why didn't they order the 747-8s?
Well with the upcomming shortage of Pilot in the near future
i would prefer Airbus .. since all pilots can Fly A330 or 350 aircraft due to the similar cocpits... Boing is not good in that point :)
Is there any chance Boeing produces 777-10x? That would be ideal for hub to hub operations, beside United, Emirates has more than 100 A380 and it needs a new jet to replace those ageing A380s as well.
According to Coby Explanes’ interview with the Boeing marketing guy, no plans for the -10.
Not currently. But who knows in 5 or 10 years.
Boeing already calculated the -10 and it’s something they can do but they haven’t been asked to by any airline yet. It would probably take a range hit, but it would serve the hub to hub market well.
@@daltonmojicaCoby Explains is not a reputable source, all he does is produce opinionated videos that are false and aren't based on facts.
@@heidirabenau511 To be fair, I would normally say this, but this came from the Boeing exec himself, so it’s his word.
I think when the time is right I think United probably will place an order for the triple 7X family with the this is my theory. I think they’re gonna probably place to order placing 23 orders of the triple seven 9X and I can see them place he may be fifteen orders of triple seven 8X so when the time is right.
It’s obvious they ordered the 777-300ER thru Internet Explorer
Boeings long-haul Plains are definitely better but I think airbus is short distance planes take that
I wonder if Boeing could have made a composite wing for the 747 and introduce more fuel efficient engines and continued to receive orders.
It already had the latest engines on the 747-8. Doubt spending billions on a new wing would have changed much and that's what Boeing decided. Wasn't worth the investment on a market clearly going twin.
United could retire the -200 domestic series and replace them with new -300ER with higher density seating for primarily domestic use. Maybe have 40 Polaris seats and add more rows of economy plus/premium plus. Then when replace the first batch of -300ER in about 20 years and get the 777-9 as a replacement for those
Well that settles it then, the A350 is out. So those on order were only a stick to bash Boeing with on price. I was never convinced United would ever buy anything but American, shame because it could have done very well economically with the A350-1000
They would have actually taken them had they not merged with CO. Continental was the hardline Boeing customer in the merger and it just makes more sense for them to stick with Boeing now
Impressed that you somehow padded this video out by being overly verbose and lots of stock footage, very little new information, AND still under the 10 minute window for getting additional ad revenue.
First WITH audio
It’s far too easy to dismiss or not take into account the type of truly game-changing potential the 777X has and, IMO, how likely it is to actually realize that potential and more. Everyone’s so quick & eager to 💩 on Boeing right now - whether that’s because it (erroneously) seems cool to do or because those that do are simply Airbus fanboys & girls - but keep in mind that it’s even easier to miss things when you’ve closed yourself off to any outcome that might even kinda sorta possibly maybe with a little luck be good for Boeing. When you do that, of course all you’re gonna see are Airbus aircraft flying with rose-tinted windows.
I’ll freely admit: on the whole, I like Boeing planes more than Airbus; that’s just my personal preference. I do, however, think that Airbus is a great company and makes fantastic planes. I mean, I don’t think there’s any question about that. But the more people sleep on the 777X and what Boeing is doing with that plane, the greater the impact it will have on the industry. At least so says me, but that’s just the way I see things.
Good for United for getting such great planes at such a great price. That’s a win-win, if you ask me.
It's mostly bevause of Airbus Fanboyism. There are a lot of commenters touting the A350 as roomier than the 777x...even after that announcement PAL made about their A35Ks
We will just have to see how it performs to make a final call.
@@Blank00what did pal say?
@@AA-tz2bm they will put 10-abreast economy in their A350-1000s.
Sounds like business as usual
I agree with the points here. Although I try to avoid flying on ANY Airbus product. As a former mechanic, I don't like there lack of workmanship. Boeing has had issues lately mostly due to them trying to adopt airbus type worklines. I wish that Boeing hadn't gotten rid of the 747 and had made the new model with the more efficient wing and engines. They still fly them with other airlines and it's still very popular with cargo lines, so there's still a need for it and the A380 can't fit that niche, it's too awkward and large. The more American airlines buy Airbus, the more they'll be beholden to the EU and it's penchant for strikes and other work stoppages. As well as of course no loyalty to American interests. In fact just the opposite. They will hold it as a sword over the head of American commercial aviation.
No audio
There is sound?
Working here too
Audio works very well.
for united think they should go with the 777x and keep there wide body fleet all boeing
Personally I try to avoid buying/leasing the first year of a new generation of automobiles in an effort to avoid becoming a defacto "beta-tester". This happened a couple of times to me in the past where issues were discovered after introduction. When this (often) happens in the aerospace industry, the financial consequences and inconveniences are magnified exponentially. I think the strategy of waiting for a variant or new aircraft to be proven in the real world, while also not waiting until such aircraft are so inefficient to be impractical, is a good one.
It would be great if UA did have a suitable replacement for the 747-400. A350 and Boeing 777-9 are amazing aircrafts and both planes would look amazing with UA livery :)
They don't really want a 747 replacement. Given their multi hub strategy they just dont' want or need an aircraft that large at this point.
If United was truly thirsting for a 747 replacement they would've just ordered 747-8s I imagine.
I wish they would use this aircraft to fly to Israel.
Buying the second-newest gen is a good idea for smartphone upgrades
United should replace the 777-200s with a fleet 787-9s, 787-10s, and possibly some 777-9s if Boeing can discount them. The 777-9 can compliment the 777-300ER bringing the total 747-400 fleet up to about 44 aircraft.
Well, they ordered 100 extra 787s last year, with options for 100 more, so I’d say that plan is in full swing now
This will be complicated. There are 4 777s that came from CO that are not really old.
@@Blank00 The entire 777-200 fleet won't be replaced until at least the late 2020s/early 2030s.
How many times can you say triple seven three hundred E R in a single video?! A lot.
the A380 is not inefficient, at all, but it needs to a high load factor to be efficient, like any other aircraft.
Airlines apparently disagree with you. It's extremely high cost to operate. It only works in highly premium markets. That's why you see so many at LHR
I am sorry but saying the A350 is a less than ideal replacement for the 777-300ER is said way off the line and without any proof or explanation… You can do better videos than that
That is because he is speaking from United's point of view and not from yours.
United first ordered the a350 way back ten years ago or so but they kept postponing the order because they don't find it ideal, based on their own setup.
A very clever strategy but I think the airbus a350 order they need to do now as a business point of view because using the older jets is burning more money in fuel I still don’t understand why they keep pushing the order back of the a350 I understand it costs money to train pilots but they would make more profit from this aircraft
UA cleary has decided the 787 is a better fit for them. They already have a large fleet of them and just placed a huge order for 100 more with 100 options. Their choice is clear.
All A350 orders changed to A321XLR and A220. I bet I'll be seeing United 777-9 flying out of Newark before 2030.
Don't really know what your talking about. UA has zero orders for the 220 and really hasn't expressed in interest in it. They are in no hurry to order the 777-9. Their commitment is clearly towards the 787
Video is pretty bad and leaves out some key facts like that United had some 70+ 777-200s before the -300ER. And that they mostly replaced 747s by doubling up frequencies with 787s. And united ordered the A350 before the 777-300ER
Flying has become way too affordable. Airlines need to push up the price.
United is playing the Delta game, of buying things no one wanted or on its final cycle to save capex. United also bought used 737s and is nearly copying everything Delta is doing. By the way, these 300ER are densified to a painful level for the mid and rear cabins. United's 300ER has a terrible reputation for the TPAC market. None of my Asian coworker would fly on it after trying it just once. The comment that A350 is not a good enough replacement for 300ER is silly. A350-900 is a superior aircraft in everyway.
My opinion and my opinion only. High demand and minimal airport slots. Considering. Between Boeing or airbus… Somebody. Has got to engineer the first super fuel efficient super jumbo. Air travel is at an all-time high and going higher. I wonder who has the resources and guts to engineer the worlds first super efficient super jumbo.
A super fuel efficient super jumbo is an oxymoron.
I really don’t agree with their strategy, because they should’ve bought the 777-300 ER’s way earlier than they had, if they had done that rather than wait, it gives them longer time to use the aircraft, and drive more customer demand because now they have just put themselves in a position that is not going to work for the company
They obviously don't agree and I'd assume they are in a better position to know what they need
What a bunch of crap - by the time the 777x finally gets delivered, it will be old technology and no longer in the lead of fuel efficiency - Boeing is an embarassment
the first half of the 2000's, are from 2000 to 2499. hard to make a prediction of tendencies when we're less than 5% into this period.
why do you claim that the A350-1000 is less than an ideal 777-300ER replacement?
A basically one minute video and turned into a ten minute one . 🥱🥱🥱🥱