Can a House be too Air Tight?
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- Опубликовано: 25 апр 2023
- Can a house be too Air Tight? People always want to know how tight is too tight in a house for air control? Well we finally run a blower door test on the Best House...and we are tight. Building Science says make your home as air tight as possible, so you can control what air comes in and out of your home. What are your thoughts?
Big thanks to Minneapolis Blower Door, (The Energy Conservatory) for running the blower door test, Randy Williams (@northernbuiltpro7197 ) for his Building science wisdom and support, and Dan Edelman (@danedelmanrw on IG) for making it all happen with Rockwool.
Best House Building Plans as well as other Post Frame Plans
rrplans.bigcartel.com/
The Energy Conservatory
Minneapolis Blower Door
store.energyconservatory.com/...
What a beautifully done ruclips.net/user/postUgkxYGamVaHfdHiPlAQaLa7zkwR02OKpGYDU ! The instructions and the photographs are brilliant. It is thorough and genuinely informative. Ryan got another winner! No one does it better!
I read the entire Ryan's ruclips.net/user/postUgkxGqOCINHE0Z0E5gxzSdNi9NWGugRY5Hm2 Plans and was able to make a shed plan. Using Ryan's Shed Plans alone, the shed itself is great. Where I wish I knew more is with respect to ground preparation and foundations. Maybe that's beyond the scope of Ryan's Shed Plans.
Kyle, post frame doesn't have an advantage over conventional traditional framing for air sealing and blower door test scores. The reason for your excellent scores is that you and Greg pay attention to every detail and build a better building with each successive project. Your exterior sheathing and taping is very good, your interior air sealing and taping is very good and your detailing of all of your penetrations is very good. Because you care and actually try to do a very good job you end up with a very good building. Give your plans to a production builder and they would build the post frame structure just as poorly as they build their conventionally built homes. The bottom line difference is that you and Greg give a $*it and the results reflect it. Very nice workmanship! Thanks for sharing... 😁👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Amen!!
Well I appreciate that but I will argue post frame is an “easier” detail to perform
@@RRBuildings Please don't get me wrong here as I agree with you. However, that being said, if you and Greg built an exact duplicate of that building, footprint, wall height, trusses, etc. and finished it out the same way, I think that you would end up with the same results. It's your quality workmanship and attention to details that seals the deal... I love post frame and very much respect your opinion and am in no way trying to stir the pot. The simple rectangle well sealed inside and out is very hard to beat regardless of the framing method. I am a GC, a long time subscriber and I greatly appreciate your work and your RUclips channel. Keep up the great work. You are a rising ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
I would argue there are some major advantages - some advantages could be worked into conventional framing if you can get the crews on board - but having the entire interior one open spaces - no structural load wall that you have do plan and deal with (youd have to leave strips of the vapour layer for the framers to place in as the wall adjacent framing is attached).
with post frame - you can frame everything as normal - then get specific guys that can handle the entire air seal - get a real test there to ensure quality (avoid taped seems like they had one there) - and your done.
You'll still have to coordinate with the other trades - pipes and other penetrations are a lot simpler with butyl circular seals that you can put on DURING INSTALL - then you don't have to deal with the tape situations there as much. So it'd be much easier to roll out a higher quality product than having to retrain carpenters (the carpenters aren't getting a pay raise to do more work, and won't feel like it's their job and have no reason to do a good one - it's harder to change people then just modify the process a bit).
@@jonathanburr9798 JB, all of your points are correct. However, any framing crew would be able to conventionally frame a rectangle, set trusses and create the same open space. The shear panels and air sealing we be almost identical. I have done it both ways and it is simply all about the details. You definitely have to make sure that everyone involved is committed to the objective and that they understand each and every step. It is really fantastic that so many can learn and exchange ideas in a positive manner thanks to the light shined on the subject by Kyle and Greg. Great work all around. Great buildings and great videos. Many thanks to all contributors! 😁👍
4 ACH is code…1 ACH and Kyle says still ain’t good enough we can do better! It’s that kind of pride in your work that makes the work you guys do so damn desirable.
I built my last house too tight. IAQ was horrible and we had to constantly leave windows open. Eventually had to install a HRV to gain more ACH.
A passive house has to be .6ACH,, which if your not building to passive house standards then your not building a good home.
Next step is doing an ASHRAE calculation for ventilation and design a "Balanced Air" Ventilation strategy for the structure and its occupants. Explore Heat Recovery Ventilation and/or Energy Recovery Ventilation. You are doing great, brother!
Always great to see blower door testing, and retesting after making improvements. It would be great to see a follow up video for the resulting HVAC equipment sizing for this home.
Yes please
Awesome video. Thank you. I really appreciate you running the test once, showing the diagnosis of what type of mistakes were contributing to the result, then running the test again to show what improvement you could make after remediating those areas. I'm trying to fine someone to build a high-performance home; this video is a great example of the level of care and attention to detail I'm hoping to find.
Great job Kyle. Love the blower door testing it shows the high level of craftsmanship that you and Greg have
wow, awesome demo, Kyle! This is a first for me, so I was very impressed with the equipment used to check for air leaks! I'm glad you left some pipes unsealed as well as overlooked some tape on the wrap. It actually made the whole test make more sense. I never knew double hung windows had so much air leakage, but it makes sense, and I have never been a fan of sliding doors, and this test just goes to show that you lose a little energy not matter how much you spend on them. Thanks for doing the demo. I'm 57 now, and I grew up framing residential homes with my dad from the time I was 11 on up. I'm an electrician now for the last 11 years; just another facet of construction. Again, great demo.
Way to go RR Buildings. I learn so much from watching your videos and listening to your commentary.
Great job Kyle and Greg always enjoy watching you guys Happy for you with your new blower test
Love the intentional holes you guys left to really help quantify your efforts in detailing everything - not only for us but for you and Greg as well. Congrats guys!
Impressive baseline number without using sprayfoam and before drywall is applied. If you're OCD about air tightness, look into the Aero Barrier product. Matt Risinger is big on it.
Aerobarrier is not the best approach - its a "I did a bad job and really need this fixed" use or "I can't do a full tear apart but doing a full interior reno on an existing".
It's cheaper and more future proof using the systems as above.
Aerobarrier is just caulking - it has a lifetime and may have a failure rate 30 years down the road. Its also hard to say where the holes it fills are - meaning if you renovate in the future and move walls around - you might have removed areas the aerobarrier fixed. The tape and membrane systems become true materials after the adhesive fully set - meaning they will last longer then the house will, and would have better shear and tear resistance so "house shifting" problems are lesser - so the value will be true even as the house ages.
Matt is big on anything he’s paid to be big on. He just drooled all over a tesla solar roof and I hope people are listening because I make an absolute killing chasing down installation issues and maintenance once tesla abandons the customers
Great result !
You need to look into penetration membrane flanges. Basically a rubber sheet with tape around the edge. You push the pipe through a smaller hole than the pipe. Like a 1 inch pipe through a 3/4inch hole. Saves a lot of hassle with tape.
What's the lingevity on that? Surely the rubber will get stiff and fail ling after tape curls up aand falls off.
Impressive results. To put the NLR value in some context....
The PHIUS+ 2015 air leakage target for this type of building would be 0.25 litres/second/sq. meter @ 50 Pa. This home's NLR (0.023 cfm/ft^2 @ 50 pa) was half that target: 0.11684 L/s/m^2 @ 50 Pa!!!
The ENERGY STAR for New Homes air leakage target (Canada) for a detached home is 0.93 L/s/m^2 @ 50 Pa, this home is ~ 8x tighter than that target.
Congrats to all of the trades involved on this project, clearly everyone's efforts resulted in a very tight enclosure!
Wow! Impressive job guys. If the air barrier stays intact through the plumbing and HVAC you have a winner!
I bet you can get that number down after drywall
Great score Kyle! Well done man! 👍😁👍😁
Awesome guys... Im still building ours air tight... Keep it up brothers
I love this stuff, Kyle.
Controlling the air shouldn't JUST be up to the HVAC guys.
Build it right, build it tight. Then, HRV/ERV it.
Absolutely wild, but a testament to your level of detail. I’m totally sold on building my own post frame using this system.
Pretty wild that two people did so much work in this house. Around Little Rock, AR, the are huge crews that blow through, build a house as fast as possible and then move on to the next one.
That’s an awesome score man! I wanted to use the Majrex, but my drywaller said he couldn’t glue to my studs. Having a secondary interior wall is a huge advantage of your method with post frame. Hopefully your compounding success will allow you to only take on the jobs you’re super passionate about. Love your channel!
I’m not a builder - at best a moderately competent DIYer. But there’s something about watching experts do their thing and explain it to me that I just can’t get enough of. Cheers guys
I spent many years working on air tightness as an Engineer on specific Engineering projects. Tight enough that we had built in installations for CO2 scrubbing at a minimum and even special environmental candles and other high tech air monitoring systems. So yes you can be too tight for human habitation. As so one of the comments have suggested you require the HVAC to maintain habitable conditions. I must have a look to see if you have done a video on the HVAC installation checks you carry out. I would appreciate if someone could point me to these HVAC checks you do.
In my job we were able to readily test for Radon and CO2. I am assuming in a High Radon area you install Radon membranes and check the HVAC pressures to ensure the basement or the ground floor rooms are set up to have the lowest HVAC DP's? Even ventilate ground air spaces out with the living area. If you google it between 3 and 14% of all lung cancer deaths can be attributed to Radon in homes and I have seen higher percentages than this in the past being quoted. So proper ventilation is so important in some areas. Especially in basements due the properties of radon and its sources.
An interesting test if someone in your house likes burning scented candles is to buy ain inexpensive CO2 monitor and watch how the CO2 rises in your living space. I did a test in our own house and it soon rose to about 3000 ppm from the background of approx 400ppm. Your local building codes usually will recommend 1000 ppm to 1500ppm as a maximium certainly a max of 5000ppm would be advised.
The use of drywalls with high levels of Strontium Sulphate (Sulfate) could also be a problem in house with good air tightness and improperly set up HVAC systems.
I was also interested in the discussion on a wind factor in the calculation. As many of you know wind loading can increase a pressure on the outside wall but also a negative pressure with a venturi effect in action especially on gable ends of buildings.
The systems I worked on that had cable penetrations were installed into wall glands with a testable interspace which was a maintenance item for us. I see in the comments suggestion that rubber will deteriorate over time. Though we had to repair some over the years it did not tend to be an issue.
Certainly an interesting and thought provoking video that has me away looking into how different places and industries deal with these sort of issues.
I look forward to the next.
As
video
I keep my windows open year round. Pure fresh air straight from outside is healthier than air coming through an hvac exchange unit that needs constant maintenance.
You must not live in a big city 😉
You will hardly ever be sick in a fresh air environment. Tight houses make sick people
Very interesting. Thanks and well done.
Well done!
Outstanding video!
Good job!
Good job guy's!
Living in rural Colorado mountains where wood burning is main source of heat, I don't want a tight insulated house , It needs to breath and let fresh air in.
The main thing I need and every house needs is to filter the air. Which I do with diy filter box made of 5 merv 13 furnace filters and a box fan.
Great video. I learned a lot.
Build as tight as you can and install an Air exchanger and humidity control.
Take control over your building envelope.
Great video.
Wow - Huge value add for your customer
When I was a kid in Iowa, our bedroom was a converted porch. One winter, I woke up with a snow drift next to me, it wasn't air-tight but we were healthy and never went to the doctor.
Very Good Show!!!!!!
That is awesome. Keep it up
Phenomenal videos. I just wish we could find /boom this type of quality in my area.
We already knew you and Greg are fantastic builders. This is the proof. And your willingness to accept that we all make mistakes is a learning experience in itself. Well done. You should have a very happy client!
The confirmation that you guys are building awesome stuff! Good job Kyle and Greg.
Interesting stuff man.
😅 Kyle was upset at the first reading. Lol. Did amazing and was let down.! Great job
I live in Minneapolis and I've never even heard of this. Very interesting that's for sure.
Nice Demonstration I remember Building the McDonald’s and setting the air pressure because of the exhaust fan’s and Roof Top AC ya wanted Positive Air pressure to keep Fly’s from coming in the Doors and DT Windows!
And it keeps the smoke out during forest fires in the area.
TY Kyle
Any plans on doing the blower test again once drywall is up? I’d imagine the score would drop even lower. Job well done Kyle and Greg!
I'm so pumped to build our post frame home.
A friend of mine here in South Dakota builds SIP homes. He has his own BLower door and tests all of his houses. In the counties we live in, nobody is enforcing ACH, yet he does it for his clients. He generally heats the houses he builds with Electric in floor heat.
Sips are also fanstic the challenge is getting uniform foaming on the joints.
Kyle, I want to give credit where credit is due. It's a great video! Love the attention to detail you guys have. I can appreciate you guys always trying to outperform your last project. I try to instill that practice with my crew of carpenters. The trades need more professionals like this. Good job!
RR, the Rolls Royce of buildings!
Interesting video that showcases the new way of building insulated houses.
You know that Siga makes special Fentrim sleeves, sort of neoprene socks, that you put around pipes and cables to make them airtight very easily.
For sealing conduit, there are special silicone seals to put in conduit where you can run cables thrue, your electrical specialist should be able to supply this, it is also used in acoustic applications, where conduit and HVAC pipes are known sources where sound goes through.
Electrical installation manufacturers have all kinds of solutions for these kind of special applications, often the fire safety is such a specialism that is overlooked, but has a lot of solutions that help building airtight as well.
Take that Matt Risinger!! 😂 Job well done by the boys.
My Dad was a home builder back in the 70’s and built one of the first solar homes. He actually went to school just to build this house.
After the build the new owners we’re trying to have a fire in the fireplace. The fire kept smoking up the house and it took my dad weeks to figure it out. 🤔
He finally realized there was nowhere to draft the fire because the house was to “Air tight” I will never forget that
Excellent job guys!
Reading through all the "too tight" and "house needs to breath" comments reminds me that the general public has a lot to lean re erv/hrv. With ach in a typical home, "fresh" air is pulled in through the wall system, any off-gassing of building materials is brought right in to breath. With an erv/hrv, the fresh air is brought in directly from the outside, and preheated /tempered with outgoing air - not the efficiency loss many commenters fear.
The question becomes what are we gaining? The only real advantage is the fact that we can now filter said air. The energy cost is very similar once you add the entire cost of the erv/hrv.
@@jimjohnson515 bug/rodent sealing ... filtering air is a huge benefit if you live in a wildfire prone area, city with a lot of air pollution, and are allergic to pollen
they just showed you that it doesn't take a million dollars to create a great house ... you just need builders who care and actually focus on the details
also keep in mind that if air is going from the inside to the outside it will bring moisture with it ... that will get trapped inside the wall cavities and mold might form or you might have condensation issues
@@jimjohnson515 were gaining the ability to control the volume and source of fresh air. Also, to increase fresh air flow is a tiny fraction of the cost of opening a window, as an HRV is ~85% efficient at capturing heat from outgoing air. Equipment running costs are inconsequential with a small ecm motor.
Gaining so much more than just energy efficiency. Quality of air, less dirt, bugs, mold being trapped in a wall cavity due to leaky walls
@@RRBuildings First and foremost you and Greg have built a great post frame home in these videos. You have gone to much greater lengths than most builders and subs ever would to create a quality product! Here in the southeast however the tight air approach to home building introduces more issues pertaining to moisture, mold and condensation. The outdoor air in most of the US is 2 to 5 times better quality than indoor air according to the EPA so, filtering indoor air is of much higher importance than filtering the incoming air. That being said any filtration you use is a good thing especially if you suffer from things like seasonal allergies, asthma etc. Bugs and dirt can be avoided with "proper" conventional building techniques. As you have shown in this video air is entering the wall in many places and you are depending on the Majrex at the drywall level to stop the flow therefore, (IN MY OPINION) mold isn't any less likely to be trapped in the wall cavity than a "leaky wall cavity".
P.S. I built and live in a "tight air" home (well under 2 ACH 50). I initially installed just an ERV and humidity would regularly get above 65%. This forced us to install a whole home dehumidifier to be comfortable in the summer.
You can also while they do the blower door they can spray a arousal into the air that will seal holes up. Very cool video.
All this without spray foam at all. Amazing work.
Spray foam has a lot of issues people ignore in favour for air tightness. I'm glad they can show it isn't required!
@@AmandaComeauCreates absolutely my thoughts too!
@@AmandaComeauCreates what issues?
@@FJB2020 so while spray foam can create a great air seal (only if installed correctly and a lot of factors to a great install are hard to control namely moisture and temperature of the air and surface being sprayed. Even technique can make or break an install) there is one fundamental characteristic I run away from. It's R value drops at a very early 'halflife'. So even if installed perfectly, the moment you are done installing and curing is the highest r value you'll ever get. As it ages, you'll have less and less. And the rvalue per inch isn't high enough for that product to hold 'code' rvalue for the life of the building.
It's also prone to damage by insects and water, rodents chew thru it, and while it is a superior air barrier - it is my firm opinion that used as an air barrier in conjunction with a batt insulation as the primary insulator is the best option.
@@AmandaComeauCreates I have seen many "flash and batt" installs and some suffer from issues. Mainly not installing the spray foam correctly and/or leaky post frame buildings. In regards to the half-life, do you have any supporting documents, I just looked and I can't find anything on the LTTR of it and at what rate it degrades.. Thanks
I love the fact he quotes Steve Basik
Great video. Question. Your first test you had a 13sqin hole of leakage (all leaking combined). What was that number on the second test
Hopefully you address humidification now with a tight building and fresh air changes. Use hrv and erv with these builds, lexel the base of inside exterior walls for next level tightness
I think a lot of your fans said it before, but dude you smashed that test. Great results man.
One question I would have is if you build the house and then use spray foam, instead of using the siga product what is the cost comparison between the two? Which one is cheaper?
Add up the cost of HRV unit, installation, all the extra excessive needless air sealing, the 120 dollar service call every 3 months for cleaning and the cost replacing the unit when it needs it again in about 15 years. After you crunch the numbers you'll see that letting house breath A LITTLE is by far and away the most hassle free cheapest way to go. Sure you'll save some in energy by an air tight build with an HRV, but it won't come close to adding up to the stated costs and hassles listed above.
Great video to show the improvement. We've also been testing before drywall to find the best ways to air seal. Our conclusion is to take the air barrier to the exterior. You already have a sheathing with a built-in WRB. Why not just focus on that? We've been doing that and ignoring air-sealing on the inside except for fire and are getting less than .3 ACH50 with a hard focus on the sheathing only.
Question, why do you stick build your interior walls instead of building them like your exterior post and beam walls?
Love your channel! Very instructional, from Delaware!!
Kyle - have you considered using @aerobarrier instead of just s blower door? Aerobarrier includes a blower door plus an adhesive spray system that fills in air gaps by fogging up the house. No hunting for leaks. Thoughts?
After the sick building syndrome, They had the people with pocket protectors analyze the available data. They determined a building needs one air change per hour, per human inhabitant. That is what i read many years ago.
Nice
Awesome job. The results show it, you guys did awesome! Keep up the great work!
ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!!! I just wish there was a way to adapt post frame to FL building codes more easily. Guess I'll just have to build further north.
FL gotta have block 1st floor for what should be obvious reasons
@@mattbrew11 lots of single and multi family residences are being built stick frame from the ground up in FL.
Hey Sir, I have a question. My house was built in 1986 with smart side on top of plywood sheeting (no tyvek or anything) the top of each board and the metal flashing were sealed with silicone. No leaks or mold or any water damage since the silicone is still holding strong. Now I have to replace a deck door for a window. Could I do the same (plywood, siding, silicone and metal flashing) or I have to wrap my house up on plastic and tape? Thanks
Impressive
Great job! I hope the client wants to put an erv system in and I’m curious to know how they will cool the house.
Would it have made a different in the score if you did two inches of closed cell spray foam?
*HRV
Definitely getting an hrv/erv this house won't need much of an HVAC system.
Here is a simple explanation for how a blower door test score is calculated. These step are a simplification of what the machine does but is still an good example.
First you make a chart with pressure on the horizontal axis and volume flow on the vertical axis.
Then you read pressure and air volume on the machine and make a point in the chart.
Once you have collected many points you then try to draw a curve or a line in the centre were the dots are most concentrated. When you have the curve you can use it to find at 50 Pascal of pressure I will have this air volume. This also works for all pressures which you have been able draw in the curve.
No a house can not be too air tight, but once it is tight you need very controlled air management. What air quality sensors are you going to use for IAQ? Nicely done! Great attention to detail. When building how much of a cost adder is this extra attention to detail? The low bid guys would have been happy with 4 to meet code. You are 10x tighter, which will save $$$ HVAC. Humidity management is now an important thing vs older houses with high air exchange.
Hey, I was just thinking about something. Fraimer, friend of mine told Migos put in casement windows. When the wind blows against them they seal even tighter against the frame where the double hung, have a tendency to pull apart at the mull point, but you guys did a tremendous job absolutely impressed. Question for you I am planning on building a retirement house here in the next year. My house is going to be on a full basement. Can you still do a post frame construction on a full basement love to hear your thoughts on it.
we have done a few.
we just had a problem with a 400 series Anderson patio door one seal on the fixed panel seals the whole door we had to call Anderson because wind driven rain was going through the seal and there was standing water on the inside
I’m curious if you’ve tried close cell spray foam and what the difference is an air leakage and the cost disadvantage?
Yes and so can a barn, my inlaws had one built recently and it was all sealed up and not ventilated. The first time we went into it in the spring after it being closed all up all winter we nearly passed out to gasoline fumes from vehicles stored in it. It took over a day with the doors open to comfortably be able to enter it again without smelling gasoline.
That doesn’t sound like a good thing
@@RRBuildings I am a timber frame designer, I have not been part of one of these tests but I would like to see how it compares with SIP walls as we typically specify air exchangers due to how well they are sealed up.
Randy opening the sliding door during the smoke test looked like a dude in a Cheech and Chong movie.😂
How do we buy rockwool in bulk without going through a big box store ?
No such thing as too tight as long as you have an HRV or ERV installed. Without one, then Yes, Indoor Air Quality can become downright dangerous if too tight.
Blown away! Amazing technology but I’m curious how much people standing directly in front of the blower affects the data gathered
Probably shouldn't affect it since it's based on pressure and people will affect air flow.
Out of curiosity which Andersen line up is that ? A series ? I don't recall you mentioning it
There is also a new company that uses a machine that basically aerosolizes caulking and they pressurize the building and then pump that aerosol in the air and it finds all the leaks and seals them for you. Obviously it has some limitations but all the smaller gaps and whatnot will be sealed. It's pretty coll system although it is new and I'm sure will be improved on as time goes by but it's a cool thing to check out
Maybe last step would be aroseal or airobarrier not sure what’s it’s called but the spray aerosolized silicone mist and it seals minute cracks. But .44 is freaking awesome.
Going to bust someone’s ear drums out slamming a door in that build.
That does it for me. I'll be building my walls out of Rockwool but my roof with SIP's. Not sure what I'll be doing for my under slab insulation just yet.
Spart foam can be applied under and around slab.
@@ShotGunner5609 Don't you mean spray foam?
Would love a link to the smoke puffer you used?
Great video, thx, healthy living, especially in COVID-19 pandemic era require a higher rate of ACH with enhanced ventilation. This is also good for all those with asthma, allergies or lung disease. Please do a video or reference one on Heat Recovery Ventilation systems that ensure good ventilation with minimal thermal loss (which is the whole point of a maximum airtight house). Thanks!
You guys should try some aerobarrier
Please go do one on a project from a few years ago!
I’d love to
Double check when you ordered your windows what the dp rating is. Andersen has an option to upgrade the performance depending on requirements/design pressure.
Operable windowsalwaya will have some air leakage because they need to be able to drain water through weep holes. That being said you have to find the balance of how easy you want doors to operate and how tight of a building you have because the higher dp rated windows have extra weather stripping which then causes more friction and they don't operate as smoothly. You might get a more tighter window but they won't operate as smoothly. The real test would be to check the fixed windows. They should have no leakage at all for the most part.
Do you plan on doing aerobarrier to make it tighter?
Impressive to say the least. Attention to details shows and both Greg n y’self have yr hearts in the job for the clients. It’s so rewarding to watch such positive results. Yr. Client must-will be super happy with the product yr delivering.
Great job, great team work and a joy to watch n see.
What fog machine y’all using?
is that light I see at the top of the blower door? @ 25;25
Kyle what do you do about bathroom vents and dryer vents to prevent air leaks?
I had one done on an old house. The blocked all vents.
He opens the slider like cheech and says, "HEY MAAAAN" holding back a cough... 🤙