Thanks David, and Lefty, for a very good summation of the planned increase. I had read the draft business plan and noted one thing that you might want to keep in mind, the plan builds in a planned fee increase every time the Consumer Price Index increases by 20% - the fee will increase by 20% as well. It doesn't specify whether that is a single increase or an cumulative increase - the CPI generally goes up by 2-4% every year, so if it is cumulative, there would be an increase of 20% about every six years or so. There is also the fact that the long term pass will no longer be usable at all LTVAs. Now, the pass allows camping at any LTVA during the paid period, under the new plan there would be separate passes for LaPosa/Imperial Dam and those passes will be good only at those two places, the other LTVAs will have a separate fee structure and require separate fees. I think that the idea that you can compare the price for a long term stay with the price of an overnight stay is disingenuous, no one boondocking at Quartzsite is going to be willing to pay $15 per night for 7 months. It just isn't going to happen. Two things will happen though, first the number of people staying at the LTVAs will drop substantially with many of those people no longer coming to the Quartzsite area, resulting in an economic downturn for the area. Second the number of people camping on the surrounding BLM land, and ignoring the 14 day stay limit, will significantly increase. Even if everyone adheres to the 14 day stay limit, which I seriously doubt, thousands of additional people moving every two weeks will do significant damage to the ecosystem - and preventing that damage was the whole reason for creating the LTVAs in the first place. That means that not only will the BLM not get the funding boom they are planning for, they will have increased expenses for stay limit enforcement and environmental remediation. A lose/lose situation in my opinion.
My concern is about the surrounding areas and the effect this could have on them. Constant moving and leaving camps opens up more opportunities to leave tracks behind in the form of trash and/or forgotten items. We see remnants all the time after camps are left.
Well said and spot on! We own a lot in Q...but if I wanted to camp..I would satay and not pay anything in protest! Gov gets too much money already...and gives it to other countrys. Sklew that noise!!
No one expected a triple dollar increase for what $180 gets you now, the least the government can do to justify that amount of increase would include showers, laundry facilities and possibly a general store for some supplies and snacks. They need to improve a lot to entice people to stay long term. Right now you get nothing but a patch of desert and long lines for water and sewer dumps, hardly worth the increase.
Look people are messing up the land for everyone being trashy and not giving two fs. More work, more staff. I can't imagine the nasty things people do.
This has nothing to do with taxes, or size of government. It is about how much service and how many improvements to provide, for what level of user fees. There are still plenty of places you can go without paying any user fees, you just can't legally plunk down in one spot for 7 months and have access to water, dump station, dumpsters, and toilets.
@@EfficientRVer quoting you.. "have access to water, dump station, dumpsters, and toilets." If you want extra service than be prepared to pay.. That simple.,,
I figured the same thing. I still think it is a bit high. I am currently paying $600 a month here in Prescott thanks to the generosity of a well-off person. I do feel for the people who are less fortunate than me though. I no longer have a need to camp out there as I did in 2018. It does have nice weather and open area to bring my telescope and enjoy the stars. Something I miss.
The combination of this price increase along with the supreme court Grants Pass decision, and certain BLM/national forest areas completely banning "residential camping" has sent a very clear message. Everyone talks about freedom as some abstract concept, well this is them taking our freedom in no uncertain terms. They'll close off more and more free camping areas too. Don't be surprised to see everyone herded into slab city type areas of complete lawlessness, where they'll occasionally raid resulting in mass casualties. If you think this is hyperbole just wait. It'll happen faster than you can imagine.
They'll just ticket people repeatedly for trying to sleep in vehicles somewhere that isn't some costly campground until the tickets pile up, then you're for profit prison labor. Their biggest problem is the people in Quartzsite or dispersed camping or vanlife or whatever not working full time at some horrible dead end job just to give half or more of their income to rent an apartment, which is the condition of people born working class with no inheritance or property in America. People had a shred of hope that they could get a bearable situation with a van or camper and maybe work half the year, or work part time, and not spend their most vital years hating every second of their life with exploitative toxic workplaces or living a few feet from noisy neighbors floating strange smells through the entire apartment complex in exchange for half or your check or worse, with no equity no less. This is really just the next phase of "you owe me labor, and you owe me rent, and you'll be lucky to sleep somewhere undisturbed." The people with six-figure grand design class A buses with enough solar to run a bitcoin farm won't be affected. The people who found a shred of life balance through minimizing their financial burden will be. The game is to increase the financial burden just for the privilege to sleep in a vehicle in a desert with next to zero support infrastructure (the water at Quartzsite is a joke). This all ironically happens in the same sick era where housing is completely bought up and inflated by private equity firms.
two completely different situations and popltaions, freedom has nothing to do with one wanting to live for free, there is not such thing especially in a vehicle driven on public roads. Your are free to do whatever but it should not be at others expense, free people shouldn't expect otherwise.
When I heard your friend's video yesterday 2 thoughts came to mind regarding the very hefty increase. 1) Are they trying to shut the place down by making it almost impossible for some people to afford it? 2) Are they trying to "weed out" people so that only a few are using it but if that is the case those that could afford such a price increase are not going to go to Quartzsite; they're going to pay to stay at campgrounds with all the amenities.
@@kar-r5i4f Quartzite is basically dry camping as it has no hook ups.You cannot expect to get the same pricing that campsites with hook ups (electricity and sewer, not to mention ammenities such as flush toilets, showers, pool, playvround, lake, ect) offer. The two are totally different. I'm very fluid in math, it's just what you're applying that math too. Thank you.
Less than 100$ a month for water, trash, dump station, and toilets is still an excellent price. Trying to find even a weekly price of 100$ for those amenities elsewhere is super hard. Especially if they’re going to add much needed infrastructure, you’re excellent bang for your buck. Since there’s warning, if folks stash away 50$ a month ($12.50 a week) until next season starting next month they’ll have their fees. Looking at this from a more logistical perspective. If what they really need is to say double the current fees budget and infrastructure wise, coming out this high then allows them to drop down to what they actually need as people object to meet the needs of the LTVA. If they started with what they actually need, then when they give to people’s objections they’d still be under budget and infrastructure needs. Thank you David!
They should break it down by the month if they're going to raise the price that much ,I might only want to stay two or three months ,and at 180 I can afford to leave early and be okay with that, but 600 I'd feel obligated to stay a lot longer, I mean how many people actually stay there 6 months, charge 100 dollars by the month if you're going to raise it that much.
Thanks for posting this Dave. There is much more involved in this situation than seen from the outside and the more that are made aware the better the outcome I think will be for everyone involved.
Excellent information! I agree that we the people need to know where our money goes! You're talking potential about 600 million dollars. That increase amount, is quite a shock, but it is less than 100 dollars a month rent. BLM really needs to account for that kind of increase!😐👌🐕🚑
Yes please do, adults get to make choices, so let say i choose to live or stay somewhere that signals my agreement to pay the associated cost. If I don't like said cost i can choose to stay somewhere else and not throw a hissy fit like a child and expect things for free.
In my area the US Army Corps of Engineers handle entry and use fees at our Lakes, Rivers, Dams, etc. if you’re a weekend visitor you pay for what you need, as in Campsites with water, sewer, electric, etc. That also lets you put your boat or skidoo into the water. If you use a Primitive Campsite it’s a lower cost use fee. What the Corps does is sell Annual Passes that lets you wave through the port of entry Booths. I would suggest an Annual Fee, Pass for the Primitive Campsites like David uses. Make the Annual Pass $40 like it is in my area or $15 for a weekend pass. The Arizona BLM is expecting a 14 day stay. The Annual Pass would give you the ability to stay longer or go to a different Site without being charged again for a weekend fee. I’ve been there when the Weekenders swarm in and I’ve seen what they leave behind. That’s where the weekend fees would come into play. My $0.02 worth. JimO
The problem is that for the Long Term Visitor Areas (LTVAs) instead of an "annual pass" the BLM does a 7 month pass and instead of $40 the pass is currently $180. That $180 fee provides a limited number of pit toilets, water stations, trash dumpsters, and RV dump stations. They are proposing that instead of the 7 month pass costing $180 it would increase to $600 for the 7 months with no increase in services. In the BLM areas that are not part of the LTVAs there is no charge unless you stay in a designated campground, in which case it generally runs somewhere between $8 and $15 per night for dry camping, possibly with trash dumpsters.
HI David and Lefty: Thanks for sharing this info. Sure, I like the current low pricing and do understand the need for an increase. While I personally feel like the increase is still a reasonable price I realize not everyone will agree. That kind of drastic increase will have consequences. It's the negative side of that equation that does concern me. Most mindfully, the damage to the surrounding environment that is certainly going to come into play. Thank you so much for your thoughful PSA. Youll need to put PSA reminders up when those dates for public comment or participation are coming due. Maybe just a thirty second announcement.
$300 is fair. Then a gradual increase. $600 is unrealistic. Everyone has always been thrilled with the low cost. I’ve heard "unbelievable" price. That should let everyone know it was too low. Take Care of Our Public Resources, please.
I was going to ask you about this. While I've never been there, I was shocked about the amount of increase in fees. We have the same problem here in Northern Nevada & NorCal with Lake Tahoe. They bus tons and tons of people, you know, tourism, and they're really disrespectful to the land. If you bring it in, you need to take it out. I hope they can come to a solution.
The BLM doesn't care about a bunch of feel good stories. For the increase there needs to be improvement like first of all Pay Showers. Also allow discount for federal annual pass holders. They also need to know there will be alot going elsewhere, although they probably won't consider that a negative. Showers, better roads like they've done recently, and more dumpsters, etc. The increase is going to happen so best get some big influencers/lobby to get a voice for improvements. ✌️
The federal government makes billions every year off of National Forest and BLM land through logging, mining and grazing rights. Why don't they use some of that money to upgrade the LTVAs?
For the same reason there's an entrance fee to Yellowstone Park. Using tax-based, subsidized Revenue systems are 50% more expensive than using a fee system. And fyi, the BLM does not" make " billions of dollars. The revenue is allocated by the politicians you elect.
@@reubenj.cogburn8546 Who said BLM made the money? Who said any thing about tax-based, subsidized revenue systems? And fyi "The federal government makes billions every year off of National Forest and BLM land through logging, mining and grazing rights." And yes that revenue is allocated by the politicians you elect.
@@infotoons212 it does not make billions, it collects billions. Made money is after expenses ie net profit.. And yes, a direct payment of a user fee is 50% more efficient than the government reallocating resources through a tax base system of shuffling money. Which is what you were suggesting, just to be clear.
@@reubenj.cogburn8546 LOL Nice pedantic straw man. So you don't think the profit's in the billions? This sounds like an AI argument, so I'll pass. The question was rhetorical and tung in cheek, just to be clear.
Ask congress for others peoples money which are other people who work and pay taxes so people can live for less than the cost of a tank of gas for a winter? What is this crap load of taxes Nomads are paying?
They are claiming that they have increased use, but dosent that also mean they did have increased funds with the increased use too...? Everyone pays to use the ltva... Wasn't it created to help the surrounding areas from getting over used? This ultra high fee will do exactly that... It will encourage people into the 14 day free areas... 👀
Perhaps you do not understand. This fee increase is not limited to the ltva. It is an across the boards increase in fees for camping on Federal Land. If you do a quick search, you can get all the specifics, but this literally has nothing to do with the ltva in particular.
I can understand an increase, but maybe from $180 up to $250 or $300, but not all the way up to $600. That's just nuts, and not doable for folks on a fixed income. C'mon, BLM, get real.
Yours is the most fair and neutral video i've seen and i appreciate that, what iv'e seen by most nomads is anger and bias and a lack of critical thinking. I have read the document, the facts are even with the increase its only $75 month, where else can one stay with amenities for $75? If one were to stay in other public lands with similar amenities $75 would only cover a few days not months. The document points out the fee has not increased since 2008, and i cant think of anything except a Costco Hotdog that hasn't gone up since 2008. It also points out the LTVAs run at a loss, of i believe 35%, thus the needed increase. Universally the comments and the YT videos all complain at the facilities and how poor they are, well to make them better takes money and as an adult i see no better source than the end point user. Taxes get thrown around a lot but the LTVAs are different, they are used by a small sub set of people for specific purpose, not like say a NP or NF or even a BLM campground, thats why taxes are irrelevant.
Hi David and Lefty Been busy dealing with life so I've missed quite a few videos so I'm going to try to catch up on what's been happening with you guys ✌️🙏👍
Glad to see you and Lefty are well. The increase though high is probably necessary. Do to the incrreased number of people utilizing public lands im just thankful that they haven't yet shut this option down. But if some people continue to abuse these lands the BLM will probably start closing areas.
I live in Yuma and was considering doing some short-term camping, but with a fee increase like that, we might just stay home or go somewhere else. I support you and others using BLM to do the winter visitor thing, but with this kind of increase, I can only see a real decline in visitors and a decline in revenue for the BLM. I hope they, the BLM, will pull their heads out of the darkness and make only a reasonable increase. You and Lefty travel safe. Jake
Not to mention a decline in the economy (money) the local businesses rely on to keep going throughout the year. Such an increase would definitely decrease people coming there and that would decrease capitalism for the local area.
Thank you David for sharing this information. Jack and I were thinking of going there just to check out. We have the life time senior pass; which would cut the amount in half. We do have questions and will check out the links you. Also wanted to thank you, we ordered our Opuse today.🎉🎉🎉 Looks like Lefty has you trapped.🤣🤣🤣 Big hugs to Lefty 🤗🐾
I always suggest that people go to Quartzsite at least ince, to experience the gatherings of groups, to meet new friends and see old friends. Good purchase on the Oupes! Thanks Lynda :)
I would guess trash problems are causing huge increases in expenses... Same for people who cause issues and cause increases staffing levels. Not to mention simply building the needed items...dump stations, wells, pit toilets then the upkeep gets more $$$ by the minute.
If they increase the rate that much they need to make sure dump stations work, water works, garbage is cleaned in a timely manner and have transparency about how much they're bringing in and what its being used for. most people can afford it but what's the return on the increased fees.
This is a federal agency, of course they have transparency about what they bring in, and what it is used for. Those things are kind of mandatory. Google up f l r e a revenue and spending plans, they are grouped by state and have all the numbers along with photographs.
I would like to know what they plan on doing to enforce that folks are paying. I am all for anything that keeps the folks who go out there to live and don’t pay anything and just completely trash up the area. These are the folks that are going to get the areas closed down permanently. I also think that the rate increases are reasonable and necessary in order to keep some folks from going there. 🤷🏻♀️. Do I want to pay $200 to spend 5 nights in Quartzsite once a year? Not really but that equals out to just under $7 a night which is way cheaper than a campground.
All those snowbirds and nomads will come down anyway, where are they going to go? just more on the 14d areas and other boondocking areas to south of Q, over to Ehrenberg or over on the Bouse side. good luck to the BLM trying to track 1000s of similar campers and how long they are staying in 14d areas. Actually this would increase business for water and dump businesses in Q.
I would be willing to pay 600 if the permit covered all of BLM lands annually. But many of the LTVA areas I use do not have water or toilets. As fulltimers we need a solution for summers. This would go a long way to keep people from squatting in 2 week areas.
If more people are visiting and causing wear and tear, it seem obvious they are still receiving more revenue from the increase in in traffic. There should be more money already available for improvements. This is not a business. All parks departments are funded through taxes. The small fee pays for water,sewage & trash. The beginning vision of the parks system was for people to get out and explore without infringing on private property.
Oh oh very bad? Did I detect some sulking in Lefty…me thinks he remembers that he was a bad boy yesterday LOL and Yikes…that is a huge hike in fees…where else can people go other than campgrounds which is even more IF you can find a spot. People are being squeezed 😢
That's an effect that I'm concerned about - all of the small businesses that rely on the handful of months of business to operate all year - they could be negatively effected.
Love seeing Lefty sit there and stare at you unwrapping him, and offering you not a single bit of help. Just like, "Yes, that's right. Fix my problems for me!"
Many thanks for the info. On my way to Quartzsite for this winter. I will respond to the BLM questionnaire. If they get $180. per camp now and they claim close to a million people are there in the winter months? where is that money going? My understanding is the new water source area doesn’t work, no water? You’re right will be interesting to see what proposals they have in mind for what levels of revenue is raised to make improvements.😊
Thanks for the information, First year snowbird, the only reason I was thinking $180 for use of ALL l.t.v.a's ( to save gas ), but if it goes forward with the price increase, I will do the 14 day dance on B.L.M. and state & national forest. Texas or Florida might be in the picture.( they have state parks).
I don’t camp at any of these places. I can see both sides of this, but I feel sorry for the people who depend on that area to live, but can’t afford this huge increase. The increase is too high. We have so many homeless people who, instead of going on welfare, have found a way to survive on their own and now will be forced to leave. I think it’s sad. That area is by no means an easy place to live. It’s government over reach to jack up the cost that much. They clearly want to “clean the place up” of people they don’t want.
Double all permit prices (except day use and one night) and also add a surcharge during January. That's the most crowded time and the most wear and tear on the land and facilities. Maybe also increase the permit costs for the big RV shows at Quartzite. They attract crowds so make them pay.
Thanks for the information. I think I will be on regular BLM land and move every 14 days. I will be in and out of the area. There are some people who will not be able to afford the increase. I urge them to make their opinions known. Be safe and continue to enjoy your travels ❤
Others have said to cut out the riff raff and some of the over population. Businesses will suffer. Rv parks may profit and competitive pricing within blm.
that's just the fee sites though. still millions of acres of BLM land that's completely free. and even though the cost for the LTVA sites is significantly increasing, $600 for 7 months is still a steal. a mid-range rv camp is like $500/mo (usually + electricity fees also).
I heard about this yesterday in another RUclips video. I'm afraid that they're going to ruin it for everyone including the residents of Quartsite. I think they at least should consider a discount for seniors. I myself would probably go elsewhere. I see nothing wrong with the current setup. Maybe they should consider paying the workers less like the industry does. Not really for that, I'm just tired of government trying to get us to pay more for what we already enjoy.
The NYS Thruway when constructed enacted a “temporary” toll till paid for. I don’t even know how much it costs now to go from Buffalo to NYC. Nothing so permanent than a temporary government program.
Do yo really think the Govt will listen to the people? Do you really think any real improvements to really happen? the public input will come and go and govt will still do what they want.
The same thing about the Senior Pass when they increased it from $10 to $80 for a lifetime pass to get 50% off camping & day use fees. If they did annual incremental fee increases with the infrastructure improvements ongoing it is easier to visualize. We pay $4800 per winter to stay in our FL RV Park where we did eldercare for 10 years. $600 is only $86/mo budgeted monthly, however all six of the LTVA's should have a well, trash pickup, water, & dump stations, not just one. I heard that the vault toilets away from the bathrooms were not being cleaned daily or were being overused. One issue is that the volunteer camp hosts aren't being paid , there is little incentive to do a good job. Our camp hosts in BV, CO are paid & their vault toilets are cleaned & checked multiple times per day. This is in contrast to the toilets just up the road at the trailhead that is cleaned weekly by a USFS employee... disgusting! I am for modest fee increases to support improvement, however the government playing catch-up never does so in a way that is pleasant or easy to swallow. I realize it doesn't work to shame them & the more professional the comments the better they will be heard. We will give our comments some thought & hope that they get heard. Thanks.
I agree that incremental increases would have been easier to absorb by a lot of people. I would like to see improvements made because, as you mentioned, there is room for improvement and visitors would feel that the increases were justified.
I think the price should come down not up....if the money is supposed to stay in the area collected, they haven't done much with the fees collected over the years...millions of dollars have been collected...so what has the money been used for?
There are Six AZ BLM business plans out all at once, with the same comment timelines. The LTVA one is getting most of the attention. Other AZ BLM plans are proposing raising fees at existing CGs and recreation areas. Ex: Painted Rocks blm CG going from $8 to $20, Ironwood Forest Nat Monument going from free to $15 nite for dispersed camping
Wow, it sure sounds like government lacking money, which we know is not so such a large increase. I wouldn’t have no squabble about it. If I know they put the money in into these areas and not into pocket bureaucrats.
I have never been there I live in Florida but I have watched you guys and a good deal of people that amount of money would take just about all their social security for that month take some of the money they're giving away to people that aren't Americans and distribute it
I do not know of anybody living solely on Social Security, that pays less than $90 a month for rent water sewage and trash. That is what this increase amounts to.
If a fee structure has been ridiculously low for far too long, the market correction will almost certainly be eyebrow raising. The reality is I will gladly pay less than $3 a day for my choice of campsite, water, sewer, and trash. It is 2024, a loaf of bread is $7. Besides, there's a huge number of people that presently use the 14-day areas as an ltva for the entire season.
I agree that price increases are inevitable after not raising the costs for a long period of time. If they implemented a tiered increase, that would be easier for people to adjust to I think.
@@TheCampulanceManyou are correct, this is the classic frog / frying pan situation. Any business person would obviously use a tiered system over time. But this, is not that. They have a steady supply of frogs and fuel and are not particularly concerned if some financially challenged frogs don't show up for dinner. Cold hard truth
If they do this price increase next year, this winter will be the only time I ever get to go to Quartzsite for the winter. I live on a fixed income and simply can't pay for it.
While I understand the need for an increase, but the amount of the increase seems extreme to me. It's all fine to say $600 for 7 months is only $3 a day, but the reality is most people only stay a portion of that 7 months so it's not $3 a day. $200 a month doesn't balance that out either. I think the proposed fee structure needs to be reworked. And I wholly agree that the increase needs to be justified with services. You mentioned that the number of people using the ltva program has increased, but that increase in people has also generated more fees as well to offset the usage, so I'm not sure that's a valid rationale. But because there has been a lot of abuse of the areas, abandoned trash, abandoned rv's, that require clean up and over seeing, that probably justified an increase of some sort. Thank you for the information!
Check out RV Miles video on this. He provides all the history of LTVA which was created to keep people from moving around every 2 weeks. Now those high fees are likely going to cause people to go back to using the free areas and move around every 2 weeks.
I say hard NO! The money collected will go to other problem areas...i.e. migrants!!! They take years to plan and make imorovements...this is another way to tax mistly retired folk's. No no no!!!!
It will just move the majority to the free areas and crowd them and the “elites” will be in the LTVA area. It will be like living in the hood and living in the suburbs.
$180 to $600 - that's a big jump but in the grand scheme of things, $600 is pretty cheap to be able to stay in the area for that long especially considering the amenities available.
David. I agree they should increase the price, but not $600.00. My proposed fee should be $300.00 for the LVTA. And the month long should be $100.00. Your right there will be people who wont be able to afford to stay at the LVTA’s. They will go somewhere else. And I wonder how this increase will effect the community there. And the vendors
I read an article concerning the increase in price. The current rate leaves the LTVA well under their cost of operation, I believe the stated cost to operate was almost twice what is collected at this time. Apparently, that is the reason certain projects were not completed last year...the water system for one. I believe an increase needs to be implemented and an open discussion as to what infrastructure will be added/or improved. $600 for 7 months is less than $3 a day and I believe it is reasonable if improvements to the property include more water stations, dump stations, waste facility, entrance road work and perhaps better and more pit toilets for those without onboard tanks. Also, possible rangers patrolling more often. Last January we had the infamous gun toting weirdo too close for comport...though he would not have been a happy camper disturbing the large gathering at my camp, we were prepared. We need better facilities at LaPosa South to enjoy the area and I am willing to sacrifice for the improvements.
Those improvements you stated are just what they could do to make the fee increase more palpable and improve the experience there. Great comment. And I'm glad the heat packer didn't step too close!
Thanks David, and Lefty, for a very good summation of the planned increase. I had read the draft business plan and noted one thing that you might want to keep in mind, the plan builds in a planned fee increase every time the Consumer Price Index increases by 20% - the fee will increase by 20% as well. It doesn't specify whether that is a single increase or an cumulative increase - the CPI generally goes up by 2-4% every year, so if it is cumulative, there would be an increase of 20% about every six years or so. There is also the fact that the long term pass will no longer be usable at all LTVAs. Now, the pass allows camping at any LTVA during the paid period, under the new plan there would be separate passes for LaPosa/Imperial Dam and those passes will be good only at those two places, the other LTVAs will have a separate fee structure and require separate fees.
I think that the idea that you can compare the price for a long term stay with the price of an overnight stay is disingenuous, no one boondocking at Quartzsite is going to be willing to pay $15 per night for 7 months. It just isn't going to happen. Two things will happen though, first the number of people staying at the LTVAs will drop substantially with many of those people no longer coming to the Quartzsite area, resulting in an economic downturn for the area. Second the number of people camping on the surrounding BLM land, and ignoring the 14 day stay limit, will significantly increase. Even if everyone adheres to the 14 day stay limit, which I seriously doubt, thousands of additional people moving every two weeks will do significant damage to the ecosystem - and preventing that damage was the whole reason for creating the LTVAs in the first place. That means that not only will the BLM not get the funding boom they are planning for, they will have increased expenses for stay limit enforcement and environmental remediation. A lose/lose situation in my opinion.
Perfectly said 👍👍
My concern is about the surrounding areas and the effect this could have on them. Constant moving and leaving camps opens up more opportunities to leave tracks behind in the form of trash and/or forgotten items. We see remnants all the time after camps are left.
Well said and spot on! We own a lot in Q...but if I wanted to camp..I would satay and not pay anything in protest! Gov gets too much money already...and gives it to other countrys. Sklew that noise!!
No one expected a triple dollar increase for what $180 gets you now, the least the government can do to justify that amount of increase would include showers, laundry facilities and possibly a general store for some supplies and snacks. They need to improve a lot to entice people to stay long term. Right now you get nothing but a patch of desert and long lines for water and sewer dumps, hardly worth the increase.
Look people are messing up the land for everyone being trashy and not giving two fs. More work, more staff. I can't imagine the nasty things people do.
Do you report them?
I’m so glad to see you addressing this issue I was really hoping you would 🙏🏻
More government means more taxes.. People who expect more service expect to pay for it.. People that abuse BLM land all of us have to pay for.
This has nothing to do with taxes, or size of government. It is about how much service and how many improvements to provide, for what level of user fees. There are still plenty of places you can go without paying any user fees, you just can't legally plunk down in one spot for 7 months and have access to water, dump station, dumpsters, and toilets.
@@EfficientRVer quoting you.. "have access to water, dump station, dumpsters, and toilets." If you want extra service than be prepared to pay.. That simple.,,
@@gringogg1780
Cutting taxes means higher fees and you don’t seem to be able to grasp that
@gringogg1780 how about we report abusers and they pay heavy fines.
$180 was a good deal, but the increase is still cheaper than paying $600 a month for rent. It is a hit but in the long run still cheaper than rent
I figured the same thing. I still think it is a bit high. I am currently paying $600 a month here in Prescott thanks to the generosity of a well-off person. I do feel for the people who are less fortunate than me though. I no longer have a need to camp out there as I did in 2018. It does have nice weather and open area to bring my telescope and enjoy the stars. Something I miss.
It’s utterly Ridiculous to make the comparison to a Brick/Mortar dwelling!!!
@marieshepard3093 not exactly. Campers still incur costs of their rig..insurance..fuel..maintenence etc. Not even close to renting an apartment....
Thanks, David and Lefty 👍
The combination of this price increase along with the supreme court Grants Pass decision, and certain BLM/national forest areas completely banning "residential camping" has sent a very clear message. Everyone talks about freedom as some abstract concept, well this is them taking our freedom in no uncertain terms. They'll close off more and more free camping areas too. Don't be surprised to see everyone herded into slab city type areas of complete lawlessness, where they'll occasionally raid resulting in mass casualties.
If you think this is hyperbole just wait. It'll happen faster than you can imagine.
Please pin 📌 this comment David!!
It’s spot on
They'll just ticket people repeatedly for trying to sleep in vehicles somewhere that isn't some costly campground until the tickets pile up, then you're for profit prison labor. Their biggest problem is the people in Quartzsite or dispersed camping or vanlife or whatever not working full time at some horrible dead end job just to give half or more of their income to rent an apartment, which is the condition of people born working class with no inheritance or property in America. People had a shred of hope that they could get a bearable situation with a van or camper and maybe work half the year, or work part time, and not spend their most vital years hating every second of their life with exploitative toxic workplaces or living a few feet from noisy neighbors floating strange smells through the entire apartment complex in exchange for half or your check or worse, with no equity no less.
This is really just the next phase of "you owe me labor, and you owe me rent, and you'll be lucky to sleep somewhere undisturbed."
The people with six-figure grand design class A buses with enough solar to run a bitcoin farm won't be affected. The people who found a shred of life balance through minimizing their financial burden will be. The game is to increase the financial burden just for the privilege to sleep in a vehicle in a desert with next to zero support infrastructure (the water at Quartzsite is a joke).
This all ironically happens in the same sick era where housing is completely bought up and inflated by private equity firms.
two completely different situations and popltaions, freedom has nothing to do with one wanting to live for free, there is not such thing especially in a vehicle driven on public roads. Your are free to do whatever but it should not be at others expense, free people shouldn't expect otherwise.
When I heard your friend's video yesterday 2 thoughts came to mind regarding the very hefty increase. 1) Are they trying to shut the place down by making it almost impossible for some people to afford it? 2) Are they trying to "weed out" people so that only a few are using it but if that is the case those that could afford such a price increase are not going to go to Quartzsite; they're going to pay to stay at campgrounds with all the amenities.
you can't stay at any campground for under $600 dollars for 7 months do the math.
@@kar-r5i4f Quartzite is basically dry camping as it has no hook ups.You cannot expect to get the same pricing that campsites with hook ups (electricity and sewer, not to mention ammenities such as flush toilets, showers, pool, playvround, lake, ect) offer. The two are totally different. I'm very fluid in math, it's just what you're applying that math too. Thank you.
Thank you David for the information .. It is very important info .👌
Less than 100$ a month for water, trash, dump station, and toilets is still an excellent price. Trying to find even a weekly price of 100$ for those amenities elsewhere is super hard.
Especially if they’re going to add much needed infrastructure, you’re excellent bang for your buck.
Since there’s warning, if folks stash away 50$ a month ($12.50 a week) until next season starting next month they’ll have their fees.
Looking at this from a more logistical perspective.
If what they really need is to say double the current fees budget and infrastructure wise, coming out this high then allows them to drop down to what they actually need as people object to meet the needs of the LTVA.
If they started with what they actually need, then when they give to people’s objections they’d still be under budget and infrastructure needs.
Thank you David!
Good point, that they may be aiming high to land in the middle. Kind of like selling something on FB marketplace :)
@@TheCampulanceMan exactly!
They should break it down by the month if they're going to raise the price that much ,I might only want to stay two or three months ,and at 180 I can afford to leave early and be okay with that, but 600 I'd feel obligated to stay a lot longer, I mean how many people actually stay there 6 months, charge 100 dollars by the month if you're going to raise it that much.
They are also proposing a 30 day cost of $200.@tonyturner7655
Thanks for posting this Dave. There is much more involved in this situation than seen from the outside and the more that are made aware the better the outcome I think will be for everyone involved.
I'm hoping that everyone can read the business plan draft and understand the basis for their decision.
Excellent information! I agree that we the people need to know where our money goes! You're talking potential about 600 million dollars. That increase amount, is quite a shock, but it is less than 100 dollars a month rent. BLM really needs to account for that kind of increase!😐👌🐕🚑
If we all boycott the BLM pay to camp areas thy might see the light on this. Otherwise I will use the free camping spots
Yes please do, adults get to make choices, so let say i choose to live or stay somewhere that signals my agreement to pay the associated cost. If I don't like said cost i can choose to stay somewhere else and not throw a hissy fit like a child and expect things for free.
In my area the US Army Corps of Engineers handle entry and use fees at our Lakes, Rivers, Dams, etc. if you’re a weekend visitor you pay for what you need, as in Campsites with water, sewer, electric, etc. That also lets you put your boat or skidoo into the water.
If you use a Primitive Campsite it’s a lower cost use fee. What the Corps does is sell Annual Passes that lets you wave through the port of entry Booths. I would suggest an Annual Fee, Pass for the Primitive Campsites like David uses. Make the Annual Pass $40 like it is in my area or $15 for a weekend pass. The Arizona BLM is expecting a 14 day stay. The Annual Pass would give you the ability to stay longer or go to a different Site without being charged again for a weekend fee. I’ve been there when the Weekenders swarm in and I’ve seen what they leave behind. That’s where the weekend fees would come into play. My $0.02 worth. JimO
The problem is that for the Long Term Visitor Areas (LTVAs) instead of an "annual pass" the BLM does a 7 month pass and instead of $40 the pass is currently $180. That $180 fee provides a limited number of pit toilets, water stations, trash dumpsters, and RV dump stations. They are proposing that instead of the 7 month pass costing $180 it would increase to $600 for the 7 months with no increase in services. In the BLM areas that are not part of the LTVAs there is no charge unless you stay in a designated campground, in which case it generally runs somewhere between $8 and $15 per night for dry camping, possibly with trash dumpsters.
Ha!. Your $.02 should go up as well. Make it $.11.
HI David and Lefty:
Thanks for sharing this info.
Sure, I like the current low pricing and do understand the need for an increase. While I personally feel like the increase is still a reasonable price I realize not everyone will agree. That kind of drastic increase will have consequences. It's the negative side of that equation that does concern me. Most mindfully, the damage to the surrounding environment that is certainly going to come into play. Thank you so much for your thoughful PSA. Youll need to put PSA reminders up when those dates for public comment or participation are coming due. Maybe just a thirty second announcement.
$300 is fair. Then a gradual increase. $600 is unrealistic. Everyone has always been thrilled with the low cost. I’ve heard "unbelievable" price. That should let everyone know it was too low. Take Care of Our Public Resources, please.
I was going to ask you about this. While I've never been there, I was shocked about the amount of increase in fees.
We have the same problem here in Northern Nevada & NorCal with Lake Tahoe. They bus tons and tons of people, you know, tourism, and they're really disrespectful to the land. If you bring it in, you need to take it out.
I hope they can come to a solution.
Thanks for getting this out to us.
Thanks good stuff.
The BLM doesn't care about a bunch of feel good stories. For the increase there needs to be improvement like first of all Pay Showers. Also allow discount for federal annual pass holders. They also need to know there will be alot going elsewhere, although they probably won't consider that a negative. Showers, better roads like they've done recently, and more dumpsters, etc. The increase is going to happen so best get some big influencers/lobby to get a voice for improvements. ✌️
Maybe get Bob wells out there
Send him to DC to toot his horn
Thanks David! Stay well.
The federal government makes billions every year off of National Forest and BLM land through logging, mining and grazing rights. Why don't they use some of that money to upgrade the LTVAs?
For the same reason there's an entrance fee to Yellowstone Park.
Using tax-based, subsidized Revenue systems are 50% more expensive than using a fee system.
And fyi, the BLM does not" make " billions of dollars.
The revenue is allocated by the politicians you elect.
@@reubenj.cogburn8546 Who said BLM made the money? Who said any thing about tax-based, subsidized revenue systems?
And fyi "The federal government makes billions every year off of National Forest and BLM land through logging, mining and grazing rights."
And yes that revenue is allocated by the politicians you elect.
@@infotoons212 it does not make billions, it collects billions.
Made money is after expenses ie net profit..
And yes, a direct payment of a user fee is 50% more efficient than the government reallocating resources through a tax base system of shuffling money.
Which is what you were suggesting, just to be clear.
@@reubenj.cogburn8546 LOL Nice pedantic straw man. So you don't think the profit's in the billions? This sounds like an AI argument, so I'll pass.
The question was rhetorical and tung in cheek, just to be clear.
@@infotoons212 whatever you want to tell yourself buddy
Those increases are outrageous. Many people on fixed incomes who used LTVA’s as a solution are going to be hurt by this.
I'm afraid that's what's going to happen
@@TheCampulanceMan maybe senior citizens can get a discount…
You do realize this is a ONE time fee up front not MONTHLY?
@@anniewisecarver744 That number is probably already that high, most people I've seen there is of senior age.
@@oldfarttravels it’s still a lot for a lot of people. That’s a huge hike.
Good morning David and Lefty.
The blm needs to ask congress for more money not the people who already pay a crap load of taxes.
Trump gave the tax cuts to the billionaires so the normal people have to pay the taxes.
Ask congress for others peoples money which are other people who work and pay taxes so people can live for less than the cost of a tank of gas for a winter? What is this crap load of taxes Nomads are paying?
They are claiming that they have increased use, but dosent that also mean they did have increased funds with the increased use too...? Everyone pays to use the ltva... Wasn't it created to help the surrounding areas from getting over used? This ultra high fee will do exactly that... It will encourage people into the 14 day free areas... 👀
Perhaps you do not understand.
This fee increase is not limited to the ltva.
It is an across the boards increase in fees for camping on Federal Land.
If you do a quick search, you can get all the specifics, but this literally has nothing to do with the ltva in particular.
The ultra high fee is $2.83/day 9/15-4/15
@@johnwren3976 yes, compared to. 85¢ a day... 👀
I can understand an increase, but maybe from $180 up to $250 or $300, but not all the way up to $600. That's just nuts, and not doable for folks on a fixed income. C'mon, BLM, get real.
The BLM needs $600 a permit to break even. So they have been subsidizing campers by around $400 a permit per year.
Yours is the most fair and neutral video i've seen and i appreciate that, what iv'e seen by most nomads is anger and bias and a lack of critical thinking. I have read the document, the facts are even with the increase its only $75 month, where else can one stay with amenities for $75? If one were to stay in other public lands with similar amenities $75 would only cover a few days not months. The document points out the fee has not increased since 2008, and i cant think of anything except a Costco Hotdog that hasn't gone up since 2008. It also points out the LTVAs run at a loss, of i believe 35%, thus the needed increase. Universally the comments and the YT videos all complain at the facilities and how poor they are, well to make them better takes money and as an adult i see no better source than the end point user. Taxes get thrown around a lot but the LTVAs are different, they are used by a small sub set of people for specific purpose, not like say a NP or NF or even a BLM campground, thats why taxes are irrelevant.
Thank you - the topic can be inflamitory and it takes some understanding of what they're doing and why. You made good points :)
I guess we all saw this coming 🤦. thanks for the clear information
Hi David and Lefty
Been busy dealing with life so I've missed quite a few videos so I'm going to try to catch up on what's been happening with you guys
✌️🙏👍
Good to hear from you Darryl. The videos are here for you when the time is right :)
Glad to see you and Lefty are well. The increase though high is probably necessary. Do to the incrreased number of people utilizing public lands im just thankful that they haven't yet shut this option down. But if some people continue to abuse these lands the BLM will probably start closing areas.
I live in Yuma and was considering doing some short-term camping, but with a fee increase like that, we might just stay home or go somewhere else. I support you and others using BLM to do the winter visitor thing, but with this kind of increase, I can only see a real decline in visitors and a decline in revenue for the BLM. I hope they, the BLM, will pull their heads out of the darkness and make only a reasonable increase.
You and Lefty travel safe.
Jake
Not to mention a decline in the economy (money) the local businesses rely on to keep going throughout the year. Such an increase would definitely decrease people coming there and that would decrease capitalism for the local area.
From 180 to 600.00 that's a terrible increase I'd never be able to do that
Thanks for discount code for OUPES. I ordered one.
You're very welcome! Good purchase!
Thank you David for sharing this information. Jack and I were thinking of going there just to check out. We have the life time senior pass; which would cut the amount in half. We do have questions and will check out the links you.
Also wanted to thank you, we ordered our Opuse today.🎉🎉🎉
Looks like Lefty has you trapped.🤣🤣🤣
Big hugs to Lefty 🤗🐾
I always suggest that people go to Quartzsite at least ince, to experience the gatherings of groups, to meet new friends and see old friends. Good purchase on the Oupes! Thanks Lynda :)
It's called the CORRUPTION BANDWAGON
Good morning David and Lefty ☀️
Thanks for sharing 😊
I would guess trash problems are causing huge increases in expenses...
Same for people who cause issues and cause increases staffing levels.
Not to mention simply building the needed items...dump stations, wells, pit toilets then the upkeep gets more $$$ by the minute.
If they increase the rate that much they need to make sure dump stations work, water works, garbage is cleaned in a timely manner and have transparency about how much they're bringing in and what its being used for. most people can afford it but what's the return on the increased fees.
This is a federal agency, of course they have transparency about what they bring in, and what it is used for.
Those things are kind of mandatory.
Google up f l r e a revenue and spending plans, they are grouped by state and have all the numbers along with photographs.
I would like to know what they plan on doing to enforce that folks are paying. I am all for anything that keeps the folks who go out there to live and don’t pay anything and just completely trash up the area. These are the folks that are going to get the areas closed down permanently. I also think that the rate increases are reasonable and necessary in order to keep some folks from going there. 🤷🏻♀️. Do I want to pay $200 to spend 5 nights in Quartzsite once a year? Not really but that equals out to just under $7 a night which is way cheaper than a campground.
He was very good, today, during your video. Thank you for sharing this sad information.
Thank you for being with us... and he was on his best behavior :)
All those snowbirds and nomads will come down anyway, where are they going to go? just more on the 14d areas and other boondocking areas to south of Q, over to Ehrenberg or over on the Bouse side. good luck to the BLM trying to track 1000s of similar campers and how long they are staying in 14d areas.
Actually this would increase business for water and dump businesses in Q.
So long free loaders 😂
I would be willing to pay 600 if the permit covered all of BLM lands annually. But many of the LTVA areas I use do not have water or toilets. As fulltimers we need a solution for summers. This would go a long way to keep people from squatting in 2 week areas.
Yeah David is getting really bad over here in the UK now trying to get us pay more for less stay safe and happy you two ❤🚐🚐🐾🐾🐾💯🤟😊
If more people are visiting and causing wear and tear, it seem obvious they are still receiving more revenue from the increase in in traffic. There should be more money already available for improvements. This is not a business. All parks departments are funded through taxes. The small fee pays for water,sewage & trash. The beginning vision of the parks system was for people to get out and explore without infringing on private property.
Oh oh very bad? Did I detect some sulking in Lefty…me thinks he remembers that he was a bad boy yesterday LOL and Yikes…that is a huge hike in fees…where else can people go other than campgrounds which is even more IF you can find a spot. People are being squeezed 😢
This price increase could kill local business.
That's an effect that I'm concerned about - all of the small businesses that rely on the handful of months of business to operate all year - they could be negatively effected.
I am sure those with Rigs over $100k and up will still stay there.
Well Lefty knows he has to make us laugh. 😂😂❤❤
Don't shoot the messenger
Thanks for the information David
Thanks for that reminder Les :)
Love seeing Lefty sit there and stare at you unwrapping him, and offering you not a single bit of help. Just like, "Yes, that's right. Fix my problems for me!"
I saw that in the video when I was editing it... stare!
You will more than likely see less canadians down there this year due to the exchange rate! Sad!
Yes, the gas and expense to get down exchange rate and not plan on staying the entire time all factors
Many thanks for the info. On my way to Quartzsite for this winter. I will respond to the BLM questionnaire. If they get $180. per camp now and they claim close to a million people are there in the winter months? where is that money going? My understanding is the new water source area doesn’t work, no water? You’re right will be interesting to see what proposals they have in mind for what levels of revenue is raised to make improvements.😊
Thanks for the information, First year snowbird, the only reason I was thinking $180 for use of ALL l.t.v.a's ( to save gas ), but if it goes forward with the price increase, I will do the 14 day dance on B.L.M. and state & national forest. Texas or Florida might be in the picture.( they have state parks).
Find a place in Florida for $600 dollars for 7 months and send us this location, because I'm sure your not going to find it
$600 is still a good deal
Yes find a any other place in American where you can still stay for that price.
I don’t camp at any of these places. I can see both sides of this, but I feel sorry for the people who depend on that area to live, but can’t afford this huge increase. The increase is too high.
We have so many homeless people who, instead of going on welfare, have found a way to survive on their own and now will be forced to leave. I think it’s sad. That area is by no means an easy place to live. It’s government over reach to jack up the cost that much. They clearly want to “clean the place up” of people they don’t want.
Double all permit prices (except day use and one night) and also add a surcharge during January. That's the most crowded time and the most wear and tear on the land and facilities. Maybe also increase the permit costs for the big RV shows at Quartzite. They attract crowds so make them pay.
Yes I tried to comment David yesterday about this To ya
Thanks for this video on the latest
Give lefty a hug ❤
Good morning Mr. David and Lefty.
They want to hire more rangers is what it comes down to.
Your dog is hilarious and I have one to you gotta love them to do as much as we do for them😂
I hope enough people know about this. I wish I could share it with others Nomads.
Thanks for the information. I think I will be on regular BLM land and move every 14 days. I will be in and out of the area. There are some people who will not be able to afford the increase. I urge them to make their opinions known. Be safe and continue to enjoy your travels ❤
Others have said to cut out the riff raff and some of the over population. Businesses will suffer. Rv parks may profit and competitive pricing within blm.
that's just the fee sites though. still millions of acres of BLM land that's completely free. and even though the cost for the LTVA sites is significantly increasing, $600 for 7 months is still a steal. a mid-range rv camp is like $500/mo (usually + electricity fees also).
This will kill Quartzsite! So many will not be able to afford this.They will end up losing money due to so many people bailing on the LTVA.
Great Video David & Lefty! ❤️🙏🏼👍🏼👍🏼✌🏼❤️🐶❤️😂
I heard about this yesterday in another RUclips video. I'm afraid that they're going to ruin it for everyone including the residents of Quartsite. I think they at least should consider a discount for seniors. I myself would probably go elsewhere. I see nothing wrong with the current setup. Maybe they should consider paying the workers less like the industry does. Not really for that, I'm just tired of government trying to get us to pay more for what we already enjoy.
The NYS Thruway when constructed enacted a “temporary” toll till paid for. I don’t even know how much it costs now to go from Buffalo to NYC. Nothing so permanent than a temporary government program.
I've always been curious as the the $ amount that had to be raised... and how many decades ago that amount was hit.
Do yo really think the Govt will listen to the people? Do you really think any real improvements to really happen? the public input will come and go and govt will still do what they want.
The same thing about the Senior Pass when they increased it from $10 to $80 for a lifetime pass to get 50% off camping & day use fees. If they did annual incremental fee increases with the infrastructure improvements ongoing it is easier to visualize. We pay $4800 per winter to stay in our FL RV Park where we did eldercare for 10 years. $600 is only $86/mo budgeted monthly, however all six of the LTVA's should have a well, trash pickup, water, & dump stations, not just one. I heard that the vault toilets away from the bathrooms were not being cleaned daily or were being overused. One issue is that the volunteer camp hosts aren't being paid , there is little incentive to do a good job. Our camp hosts in BV, CO are paid & their vault toilets are cleaned & checked multiple times per day. This is in contrast to the toilets just up the road at the trailhead that is cleaned weekly by a USFS employee... disgusting! I am for modest fee increases to support improvement, however the government playing catch-up never does so in a way that is pleasant or easy to swallow. I realize it doesn't work to shame them & the more professional the comments the better they will be heard. We will give our comments some thought & hope that they get heard. Thanks.
I agree that incremental increases would have been easier to absorb by a lot of people. I would like to see improvements made because, as you mentioned, there is room for improvement and visitors would feel that the increases were justified.
I think the price should come down not up....if the money is supposed to stay in the area collected, they haven't done much with the fees collected over the years...millions of dollars have been collected...so what has the money been used for?
I bought a mobile home hear in wa 6 years ago the lot rent went for 550 to 980 a month just for the lot prices going up every ware
There are Six AZ BLM business plans out all at once, with the same comment timelines. The LTVA one is getting most of the attention. Other AZ BLM plans are proposing raising fees at existing CGs and recreation areas. Ex: Painted Rocks blm CG going from $8 to $20, Ironwood Forest Nat Monument going from free to $15 nite for dispersed camping
Wow, it sure sounds like government lacking money, which we know is not so such a large increase. I wouldn’t have no squabble about it. If I know they put the money in into these areas and not into pocket bureaucrats.
I have never been there I live in Florida but I have watched you guys and a good deal of people that amount of money would take just about all their social security for that month take some of the money they're giving away to people that aren't Americans and distribute it
I do not know of anybody living solely on Social Security, that pays less than $90 a month for rent water sewage and trash.
That is what this increase amounts to.
They couldn't even build a freakn dump station! Maybe they can handle extra toilet paper in the poop houses. 600 is ridiculous!
If a fee structure has been ridiculously low for far too long, the market correction will almost certainly be eyebrow raising.
The reality is I will gladly pay less than $3 a day for my choice of campsite, water, sewer, and trash.
It is 2024, a loaf of bread is $7.
Besides, there's a huge number of people that presently use the 14-day areas as an ltva for the entire season.
I agree that price increases are inevitable after not raising the costs for a long period of time. If they implemented a tiered increase, that would be easier for people to adjust to I think.
@@TheCampulanceManyou are correct, this is the classic frog / frying pan situation.
Any business person would obviously use a tiered system over time.
But this, is not that.
They have a steady supply of frogs and fuel and are not particularly concerned if some financially challenged frogs don't show up for dinner.
Cold hard truth
@@TheCampulanceMan I totally agree!!
I heard about this before your video was posted the ungodly high prices to camp.
@@jimgree in all fairness I got to ask you...
In what world is less than $3 a day and ungodly fee?
Your campulance exterior appears to be holding up well. Did I miss any repaints and/or body work?
The original paint job from 5 years back has held up well for us. I haven't done any additional paint work on it, no.
i think this will push more people onto the free blm land.
Everything is going up over the last three years. The greed is insane. May the good Lord watch over you and your family and friends. Peace and Love 😊.
Many thanks :)
If they do this price increase next year, this winter will be the only time I ever get to go to Quartzsite for the winter. I live on a fixed income and simply can't pay for it.
While I understand the need for an increase, but the amount of the increase seems extreme to me. It's all fine to say $600 for 7 months is only $3 a day, but the reality is most people only stay a portion of that 7 months so it's not $3 a day. $200 a month doesn't balance that out either. I think the proposed fee structure needs to be reworked. And I wholly agree that the increase needs to be justified with services. You mentioned that the number of people using the ltva program has increased, but that increase in people has also generated more fees as well to offset the usage, so I'm not sure that's a valid rationale. But because there has been a lot of abuse of the areas, abandoned trash, abandoned rv's, that require clean up and over seeing, that probably justified an increase of some sort. Thank you for the information!
I just dont understand how they will enforce the inability to move from one ltva to another.
Check out RV Miles video on this. He provides all the history of LTVA which was created to keep people from moving around every 2 weeks. Now those high fees are likely going to cause people to go back to using the free areas and move around every 2 weeks.
Thanks for the information. I don't live in a vehicle but it's grat to know. But you know and understand why this is being implemented? Hey Lefty 🐶
maybe some of the blasted snowbirds will stay home!
I say hard NO! The money collected will go to other problem areas...i.e. migrants!!! They take years to plan and make imorovements...this is another way to tax mistly retired folk's. No no no!!!!
Migrants my ass. You have to show Id to stay at the BLM Land.
Do Canadians a large cohort that has used quartzite for 50 years pay more than Americans?
No, they do not pay more.
They pay the same amount as any obtuse American.
David what about places that are not Long term? I would definitely not pay those prices. That’s just me.
600 hundred to eight hundred is what I heard yesterday, Saturday.
Thanks, $600.00 to much
Instead of $ 180.00 they are talking $ 600.00 per 7 months.
❤
It will just move the majority to the free areas and crowd them and the “elites” will be in the LTVA area. It will be like living in the hood and living in the suburbs.
$180 to $600 - that's a big jump but in the grand scheme of things, $600 is pretty cheap to be able to stay in the area for that long especially considering the amenities available.
David. I agree they should increase the price, but not $600.00. My proposed fee should be $300.00 for the LVTA. And the month long should be $100.00. Your right there will be people who wont be able to afford to stay at the LVTA’s. They will go somewhere else. And I wonder how this increase will effect the community there. And the vendors
I do hope that the small businesses in and around Quartzsite aren't strangled by this...
I did hear about this from another youtuber in Q. Fix those new dump stations!
I read an article concerning the increase in price. The current rate leaves the LTVA well under their cost of operation, I believe the stated cost to operate was almost twice what is collected at this time. Apparently, that is the reason certain projects were not completed last year...the water system for one. I believe an increase needs to be implemented and an open discussion as to what infrastructure will be added/or improved. $600 for 7 months is less than $3 a day and I believe it is reasonable if improvements to the property include more water stations, dump stations, waste facility, entrance road work and perhaps better and more pit toilets for those without onboard tanks. Also, possible rangers patrolling more often. Last January we had the infamous gun toting weirdo too close for comport...though he would not have been a happy camper disturbing the large gathering at my camp, we were prepared. We need better facilities at LaPosa South to enjoy the area and I am willing to sacrifice for the improvements.
Those improvements you stated are just what they could do to make the fee increase more palpable and improve the experience there. Great comment. And I'm glad the heat packer didn't step too close!
Time to get a real job.