The Optimal Level Of Ferritin | PD Mangan Interview Series Episode IV
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- Опубликовано: 14 ноя 2021
- In this video Dennis talks how iron levels are measured and what the optimal number is that we should aim for.
PD Mangan (@Mangan150) of Rogue Health and fitness is an author and scientist focused on using pharmacology, biochemistry, and microbiology to better understand how diet and exercise can be used for anti-aging and longevity.
He has written six books on health and nutrition including Dumping Iron and Muscle Up and recently published a paper entitled Iron: an underrated factor in aging.
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I've been in healthcare 30+ years trained in integrative functional medicine and I can tell you that anyone with a ferritin of 20ng/mL will not only feel extreme fatigue, but they will not be able to grow hair, have brittle nails, dry skin, possible hypothyroid or even hyperthyroidism, and the list goes on and on. I always shoot for at least 80-100ng/mL in otherwise healthy individuals.
"Dumping Iron" is probably the most treasured of all my health books. PD Mangan is a humble, gifted, outside of the box thinker..If health science wasnt run by tenured idiots & entrneched knowledge, he would be yet another a modern Copernicus/Galileo
Sounds interesting. I'll read it.
Terrific video! I worked in a medical lab for 30 years, and when validating a new assay method, part of the acceptance criteria was to set the reference range. Part of that process was to take 100 volunteers from the lab and assess that data. Then making comparisons of that data to other approved Reference ranges in literature. So - I totally agree - AVERAGE is not OPTIMAL.
It also seems like reference ranges get wider due to money…more expensive to actually treat people when results are abnormal!
A study of male marathon runners found that half of them had ferritin levels below 35. Quote: "Ferritin levels above 45 are unlikely to improve performance". There is an extraordinary range of opinions about ferritin ... some doctors say that if it's below 60 then iron supplementation is needed ... others say that if it's above 50 there's a risk of ferrotoxic diseases (including cancer)
Is there actual published research that shows that ferritin above 50 increases the risk of ferrotoxic diseases? If there is, can you share the reference please?
@@CyrilAndPriscilla "Optimal Ferritin levels for cardiovascular mortality reduction range from 20 to 100. Ferritin levels above 194 are associated with all-cause mortality". There is even an opinion that Ferritin levels close to zero ... but with normal Iron and Hemoglobin ... can be indicative of excess iron in the body. The range of opinions about Ferritin are extraordinarily wide. The recent discoveries of Hepcidin (1999) and Erythroferrone (2014) have significantly changed the thinking as to how the body regulates Iron usage. The solution to this "riddle" is now "a work in progress"
@@jordanpeters3746 So that study you quoted shows that only once ferritin goes ABOVE 194 does all cause mortality increase? If so, it doesn't prove that ferritin below 35 is optimal.
In the following paper, they found that ferritin levels below 100 increased ALL CAUSE mortality by 30%, while ferritin below 30 increased all cause mortality by 90%! These two papers would indicate to me that the optimal ferritin to decrease all cause mortality is somewhere between 100 and 194, since both below 100 and above 194 increase all cause mortality.
"Iron defciency is a common disorder in general population
and independently predicts all‑cause mortality: results
from the Gutenberg Health Study"
@@CyrilAndPriscilla Ferritin levels in elite professional footballers. Baseline at start of training 49(32.1-77.8), after 90 days 69(51.7-91.8). Some of the increase is the response to inflammation caused by the training. In the presence of inflammation if the ferritin/crp (a measure of inflammation) ratio is below 6 this may indicate a need for iron (e.g. ferritin of 90 with crp above 15). People with zero inflammation may be OK with ferritin in the single figures. There is a theory that one can have adequate iron stores even when the ferritin and serum iron are very low but the haemoglobin level is normal ... which a substantial percentage of the world's population exhibit. In Denmark there is concern that the iron supplementation of the nation's diet is causing iron overload ... especially with those who are obese.
Ferritin can also be high due to inflammation. It's not just iron storage.
Mine was 389 with one blood donation it went to 260. Now I'm at 22.
Ya mine due to alcohol... liver... i quit liver healed but ferritin only decreased a little
Yes. I've done iron panels includes ferritin) on my own as it not part of something my Dr orders. Agree, this is an overlooked, but impotant marker.
Hi Peter, thanks for sharing. It does require that extra effort.
There is no one size fits all. There are so many co-factors for ever vitamin and mineral in the body. We can't just focus one of them. Iron needs other vitamins and minerals to work properly. Doctors need to look into other reasons for high or low iron problems befor putting people on drugs or iron supplements and or change of diets. Most Dr's won't ask there patients what they eat or drink which could be some of the problem.
Morley Robbins from "Root Cause Protocol" teaches the same thing 👍🙏
Thank you for Richard and PD Mangan for this interesting interview!
Hi JC, thanks for your kind comment.
Very good point, standard health check should include Ferritin.
Hi Ray, thanks for your comment. It would be useful.
Mine is too high. What could be the reason?
Today my ferritin level came in at 22. I donated whole blood for like 10 years now. I will stop donating for 1 or 2 years to build my ferritin level. I want it around 60 Ideally.
That's too low. Ferritin isn't just an iron store. It does way more than that. It synthesises serotonin, keeps you from being hypothyroid. I feel like shit if it's anything below 100
Sorry this doesnt make at all sense ,ferritin is a comexed protein binding and transfering iron arpind the body for its many vitsl functions ,it cannot be yhe culprit o siggest people re read the data ,liw levels of ferritin do not mean low free iron this i feel is the culprit ,as in the insulin glucose analogy only this time the transporter locks down the free iron making it less of a ,iron was scarce and is scaveged by bacteria on the gut also help so we dont absorb too much iron .This is basic biology biochemistry ,at degree level such assumptions would be thrown out .
Are you dyslexic?
What if you have a lot iron saturation
thank you for that great video 🙏 My level is always very low (arround 17 µg/l) I always thought that was bad. But then I will relax in this regard, especially since my other measurements are always optimal.
yeah, its healthy but its not typical. I would be curious how you could be that low for being a male. Are you vegetarian? Do you have a bleeding ulcer? Do you donate blood often?
@@ortcloud99 I eat a 99% vegan / "plant based" diet ... but have no problem at all - don't donate blood or do anything else out of the ordinary. Every 6 months I do a blood test and ferritin and iron are always pretty low. The rest is normal…🤔
Hi Sebastian, thanks for your kind comments and sharing. It sounds like you are doing very well!
@@SebastianNiemann ahh, so its because you are vegan. Like I said, it usually 1 of the 3 scenarios I mentioned.
Mine is 6 don't call 17 very low
What do you think of ferrintin level of 27 in a man?
I have been a low Ferritin male for a while. I only eat once a day (no red meat, rarely chicken), run at least 15 miles a week, exercise all the time, and am obviously very active and thin. I would love to hear more about supposed low Ferritin in terms of longevity and what is truly "healthy". The new studies that this channel and others have referenced seem to redefine what the healthy range is. Right now most labs flag readings below 30 ng/mL. Should 23 ng/mL be considered healthy now? Thanks!
I think we need to go a little by the analogy: "the proof is in the pudding"; if you feel at optimal health at a particular range then that is ideal for you. For me a lower then what is commonly considered normal does not feel optimal so I keep it at a little higher range.
You need some heme iron, non heme isn't absorbed
No way.... anything below a 100 I think is unhealthy. As ferritin that is quite high is essential for proper thyroid hormone function and many other things. I felt like absolute shit under 35 for Ferritin
QUESTION there are too many assumptions being made here !
Were the people in the study who were older with lower ferritin the same people who when younger had high ferritin?
The assumption is that ferritin levels per se are the culprit whereas it may be free unbound iron ,also anaemia is still a problem for many people leading to datigue and a qhe host of serious problems.
In fact anaemia in long term will kill you .
Lastly phlebotomy may have a huge range of other benefits quite apart from the iron.
lowering .
The concerns comes from study of the disease haemotchromatosis i think thats hiw you spell it .
Does exercise and type of affect ferritin lfveld over time
Also, read the following paper: "Iron defciency is a common disorder in general population
and independently predicts all‑cause mortality: results
from the Gutenberg Health Study"
Thanks Richard.
Hi Ron, thanks!
So what are optimal values? Question not answered!
My Ferritin level is 546. I'm 74 yrs.old and iron is 24. Dr
ordered a bone marrow biopsy. Test results not back. Im only 110 lbs. What could be going on?
Inflammation. Ferritin goes up when the body experiences inflammation. Find and fix the cause and the ferritin will drop.
Would like to know what this doctor recommends to treat anemia
Eat more food. Look at the food pyramid and follow what it recommends.
@@DoubtingThomas333that would not workout well
@@holistic_holidaze6469 it works if you have a crappy diet and nothing else untoward.
So why didn't you tell how to lower it? Maybe you don't know but I do. Take termeric supplements. Termeric chelates iron and boom!! Your healthier!!
His book has all the details. You can do chelation like you mention, but that removes good metals also.
Hi John, thanks for your comment. We talk about strategies for lowering iron in the next segment.
Blood donation is faster and free.
Ahh, maybe that's why I'm getting lower iron readings? I've been megadosing on Turmeric the last few weeks and my TIBC and UIBC tested high. Ferritin of 12 and Serum Iron of 50.
He did. You dont listen well. You cant spell either. Boom lol
I just found out my ferritin is 321… I feel awful. Waiting to see my Dr about the results. Anyone have any recommendations on h what I need to do. My CO2 is low, kidney & liver a little elevated.
Try nac it's an iron chelator. Look into manganese toxicity too
Rule out inflammation. Have your doc check your HS-CRP, sedimentation rate, and LDH to make sure your RBCs are not breaking apart.
Mine was under a hundred 10 years ago, and i wascalmost vegetarian, then drinking and fatty liver put my ferritin over 600, i quit drinking and it lowered to 400 and stayed there. I cant give blood cuz of bloodthinners, my dotor is unsympathetic.. you are in normal range.. i would love to get it lower but cant give blood and doc wont authorize phlebotomy
My ferritin level came back as 6…. I am a 37 year old male. I knew something was wrong. Doctor gave me iron pills to take 3 times a week. What can I do myself to elevate the levels?
You don't want to elevate your ferritin levels. And it's probably a good idea to not take the iron pills - they are usually a metallic and toxic form. If you still want to take something, consider grass fed liver supplements. They will have all the necessary and natural cofactors to help your body utilize the naturally occurring iron.
I've read that some consider zero ferritin ideal given that it as an intracellular molecule.
Did they check your colon ?
@@W12super you could try beef liver capsules
Eat liver
Silicon Valley and some of the wealthiest people on Earth are getting in on the longevity movement.
Hi, thanks for your comment. This is true, there is more attention coming to longevity and with it more money.
My recent levels are 700 +... I think that is very high but my GP says that my t/sats..are normal.. any help please.
It is high... but it might not be high considering other conditions you may have... as in it could be a falsely raised marker... inflammation itself can overstate ferritin levels
@@DoubtingThomas333 tks for the reply....can you elaborate in what way
@@mikehumphriesband9109 just look it up. Ferritin can be falsely elevated with some conditions.
You should have just asked your doctor why he or she thought your level was okay for now....
That is super high. Start donating blood. Check out taking IP6 gold too, on an empty stomach. It will also chelate heavy metals and any 'free' minerals in your body like unbound copper (a good thing). It won't touch stuff that is properly bound to carrier proteins, etc.
Should women not take iron supplements? Is there a difference between men and women in any of the adverse effects he's talking about?
I just grabbed a bottle of Centrum multivitamins out of the medicine cabinet. On the label it says they contain 18 mg of Fe, or 100% of my daily recommended allowance. On top of whatever Fe is in the food I eat.
Hi Paul, thanks for your question, and unfortunately it was not a topic that we got into in this interview. The observation that the multivitamins had the full RDA of iron is interesting.
Centrum is crap. Iron has to be taken away from other minerals or you cancel each out.
The discussion is mostly about the ideal upper bound for ferritin levels, and not necessarily the optimal levels.
I wish PD Mangan had discussed about went into what constitutes low iron levels as well, and when one needs to be concerned about low ferritin.
TLDR: Ferretin levels below 100 are better.
In Australia the brackets are 30-500 for males
No way.....for optimal thyroid function.. higher than 100 or even 140 I think is essential. Ferritin in reasonably high quantities are needed for so many processes. That's not iron....that is ferritin alone
chceck Morley Robbins
Hi Pawel, thanks for sharing.
Today My doctor told me that a ferritin level of 777 is not necessary to be treated and that the Uk does not treat ferritin levels if reach over 1000 1500. I told him that at these levels it would be lucky if I did not develop cancer. He responded that he would contact the homology dept for further advice. Figures Crossed!
My result came in the last few days and my ferritin level is 27. Below the NHS lab range.
I've been donating whole blood for about 10 years and guess this caused my level to go down quite a bit. I'm no longer donating and currently supplementing with iron tablets and probably will continue taking it for about 3 to 4 months.
Hello my ferratin is around 700 for past 5 years and my doctors can't figure it out why. Can you please tell if you were able to figure out anything. Thank you
@@jasonxx7578 I'm waiting for a hematology appointment to test for heamochromatosis a genetic disorder making iron removal difficult. The course of action will be Phlebotomy once or twice a month until Iron levels reduce to normal. If you can give blood then this will correct your level over a short time. This is something I will consider unless my appointment offers something else. There is a medication iron inhibitor but this can have side effects and affect other medicines.
@@jasonxx7578 In addition you can avoid iron fortified foods like all cereals, white bread (wholemeal is fine) and limit red meat. It's very difficult to avoid consuming iron content as it's in just about everything. But some foods have very high amounts, check labels.
Donate whole blood four times for 4-5 years.
He says "There is very good evidence that ferritin value less than 100 is normal and that ferritin values above 100 area ssociated with worse health." (2:00). What is this research, exactly? Where are the references? I ask because this is not the research that I am aware of. There is actually good research that the optimal levels of ferritin -- the ferritin level that minimizes heart failure rates--- is 121. Google "Ferritin levels and risk of heart failure-the Atherosclerosis Risk in Communities Study". There is another study that shows that ferritin levels below 119 in men increases cardiovascular mortality in men and ferritin lower than 44 increases all cause mortality in women. Google "The association of ferritin with cardiovascular and all-cause mortality in community-dwellers: The English longitudinal study of ageing."
You want your ferritin at least 100ng/mL for men and 125ng/mL for menstruating women. I've been in healthcare 30+ years.
@@Total_Body_Fitness_USA Thank you for your input. All the research I've read agrees with you! As a broad rule, I've read that ferritin above 100 is what you should shoot for. How did you decide on 100/125?
An easy-to-remember rule: 50 is nifty. Not too high, not too low either.
50 is too low. Thyroid doesn't work at its best anything less than 80-90. I feel like absolute shit if my Ferritin gets below 50
This advice is completely wrong and is going to get a lot of people into trouble. Ferritin levels below 100 will lead to many health problems. All cause mortality in men only rises for ferritin levels above 194--- below 194 there is no increased all cause mortality.. Women with ferritin lower than 44 also had increased all cause mortality. Google "The association of ferritin with cardiovascular and all-cause mortality in community-dwellers: The English longitudinal study of ageing."
The study says that the more ferritine men have, the more probability of death they have from cardiovascular disease. It never says that low ferritin below 100 is bad. It says theres a “positive association with ferritin levels in men”
The study says that the more ferritine men have, the higher risk of mortality there is from cardiovascular disease. It never says that low ferritin below 100 is bad. It says theres a “positive association with ferritin levels in men”.
Makes sense my ferritin levels are 36 and I’m losing my hair and fatigue most days
@@botzer8817anything below 50 is bad you’ll get anemic symptoms
Mine came in at 27