This is so relevant. I have went through spiritual abuse at a ministry that I attended for about 8 years. I was a minister and elder at the church. I had approached the pastor about the gospel being preached at the church. I told him that I believe that if we hear more about what we need to do for GOD more than what HE has done for us, people will not be anchored in their identity. The response from the pastor was a personal attack. He told me the fact that I'm asking about the gospel is a bastard mentality. He said things in reference to my abilities as a father, husband, minister, as well as using confidential information that I shared with him in moments of weakness, to shame me. The confidential information he tried to use wasn't even correct, which made me feel like he wasn't interested in helping me in the first place. It put me in a real bad place, on top of my then wife, agreeing with the pastor about all he said about me and our children. Your podcasts have helped me deal with my issues as well as shed light to some things happening around me. I am looking forward to part 2.
Thanks for writing David and I am sorry it went down like that. I pray the discussion in these episodes will allow comfort and healing to flow. Thanks for writing and for allowing God to heal your heart.
Thank you for your vulnerability David in sharing your story. It was healing for me, as a pastor myself, I have been through SO MANY cycles of older pastors doing the EXACT same things to me, and then i realized some of my 'friends', we fall out, caz they would do that SAME thing to me! And I started to wonder if there's something wrong with me to be attracting that all the time.. your sharing validated to me that in fact, I was being abused! Contrary to all of them throwing at me, at how 'unteachable' I am, which if I was, I won't have allowed all these relationships to last so much longer than it should have! I would love to hear how you have since healed through all this, if you don't mind sharing
@@CymonetheBeloved Healing for me started when I began to separate how I was treated by others and how GOD sees me. Then I began taking deeper dives into how do I view myself. I began seeing counselors about it. Don't get me wrong, I still deal with the impact that those moments have had on my heart and mind, but I am much better than I used to be. Finding others who value who you are as a person definitely helps as well.
Problem about spiritual abuse its like Elijah in the cave. You are hurt, alone and at the mercy of GOD. The churches apathy do not offer help but instead protect the abusive leader. Its so sad to think there are so many believers outside the church in pain and losing faith. Pastors don't apologise unless it looks good for their ministry. Its amazing have how false gossip can be heard from leaders.
@@undercoverchurch5370 I appreciate your mentioning 'apathy' and how people protect the pastors as well as each other, except when it comes to owning their stuff and taking up for the orphan or the widow. I never imagined this being in the church, and as prevalent as it actually is.
I have had to deal with spiritual abuse in the church as many others have. This topic is rarely discussed. I am glad Mark has brought this topic to the surface. One of the things God taught me going thru this was. I am responsible for how I respond to what is going on around me. I am to check my own heart and not get overly focused on other peoples baggage. Secondly I learned this is a spiritual battle not a personal battle. Ephesians 6 talks about Satan trying to destroy our relationships with others especially in the church. If we have the right perspective when we go thru something like this. We will be better people with stronger character when we come out the other side. Your trials will mold you and make you more usable for Gods calling on your life.
Hi Mr. Brian, Where does it mention this in Ephesians 6? I see where it talks about us being drawn from God by mentioning spiritual warfare. This part too: “Don’t work only while being watched, as people-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing God’s will from your heart. Serve with a good attitude, as to the Lord and not to people,” Ephesians 6:6-7 CSB
@@priscillacyannimorris Hello Priscilla Ephesians 6:11-12 Says we are fighting a spiritual war, our battle is not against people, it’s against the rulers, powers, and spiritual forces in supernatural places. Read Ephesians 6:11-16 to get the context. When we have conflicts with others, on the surface it looks like a personal battle. But behind the scenes there is a spiritual war taking place. Satan is trying to create war amongst other people. It is our responsibility to take care of our side of the fence (our heart) and allow Gods to deal with the other party(s) If we are going to successfully deal with the “wars” that come our way. We must develop a “renewed mind.” Read Romans 12:2. This is a process, not an event. Be patient, and allow the Word of God to transform you over time. ✝️
I've been diagnosed with Complex-PTSD and church is a major trigger. I'm also a former Pastor's wife. Spiritual abuse began very early in childhood by my parents. Cherry picked verses that gives parents permission to a abuse. Black and white binary thinking is terrifying to a child because love is often conditional. Children in these homes have no voice and are often accused as rebellious. I'm still not allowed to have my own spiritual perspective. I'm on the Wednesday night prayer list a lot! Lol! The church often reinforces this characterization. Shame based discipline. And then there's a abuse experienced in the church. I too, have been on both sides. My particular denomination, Independent Fundamental Baptist, known for cutting costs by hiring the "two for one special" in pastoral ministry. As youth ministers we were required to perform several different jobs in the church that left us (and other staff members) disenchanted and completely depleted. Being shamed when asking for some much needed time off. Or not being thankful for the opportunity to serve... These are a few examples.. It sounds as if I'm bitter. I needed to understand the abuse before I could forgive and move on. However, it's the spiritual abuse in experienced in childhood that continues to be a issue if I'm not proactive and self-aware of my heart.
This speaks to our situation so strongly. It's been almost a year and still seeking God on true healing and forgiveness. Thank you for your testimony. I've been looking at lots of resources on this and yours is incredibly insightful and helpful.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! 😟😭😔. So many people, mentors, pastors will not confront in love. So much abuse from leaders in church and then also in my marriage to someone who grew up in the JWs and did not get emotional help out of it. Many pastors are hirelings who follow a denominational set of rules without the Spirit. And so many Christians are happy to be spoon fed milk instead of getting messy and bearing one anothers burdens.
Wow!! I have been trying to pinpoint what I was feeling and you have described in detail some situations that I have been in and totally broke my heart. I was misunderstood and felt mistreated while the church is meant to be a safe place I don't feel safe going back. Everything your saying is bringing healing that I wasn't all at wrong they just didn't know how to deal with me. A learning process for them but unfortunately I just don't feel safe going back anymore... you guys are very respectful about this to without bitterness. This is Holy Spirit ministry. I can't believe how you got everything and it wasn't just me going crazy.
Thanks for writing Julie and for your great feedback. It's great that you have the perspective that "they didn't know how to deal with you." It will lead you to healthier places. We're glad that we can be a help to identify the pain of this and encourage true healing in the midst of this.
Mark DeJesus Unfortunately you tell a secret (what your calling it) to the pastor but it doesn't stay confidential. In the name of decernment they disclose the secret to others. They allow you to be vulnerable open up about a matter then they use it against you rather than to help you. Then they promote them selves of having the gift of decernment but really it's just suspicion just to look good in front of the other leader so they receive browny points. Then you lose your confidence and feel even more like a sinner. The thing is I have always been open for correction. I have been a born again Christian since 13 and I abided in a legalistic system that I believed was right. But after so much low self esteem and verbal abuse and a lot of unfair treatment while in ministry since I was 15 to 26 I was emotionally unequipped to handle life and had severe depression. I left there and a lot happened from 26-30 I'm now 33. I went to my second church which I don't feel safe anymore. I am so vulnerable. But I believe God has grace on me as I can't face anyone from there. I feel trapped and panicking. I also was married within the system and my marriage was horrible. I'm still married. But I have had stand up. I will not be bullied anymore. But I'm not the same woman to God any more. I was beautifully submissive and vulnerable in a Godly way. Would obey. But I have been manipulated, controlled, verbally mistreated. I even obey to my point of marriage with my authority. I have had to protect myself in so many ways... No one gets it Ps Mark. Please pray for me. I am severely broken...God has given me a gift of song writing. I get a lot out through that. It's been a blessing.
I'm so sorry to hear that. I believe in reading your words that there is a heart you have to heal and be made whole. For that, I rejoice. Please be sure to sign up for the upcoming video series that will go deeper and be sure to check out part #2 of this series.
Amazing because I open my eyes this morning and I got a revelation that the intimidation manipulation and controlling was actually a form of bullying and so that helped me see a different perspective although it effective 28 years of my life I'm believing that God's grace is bigger and he can still finish the work that he started in me
I am so thankful that this topic has been brought to the front and the openness and truth...the protection of persons etc., is so good. God Bless you.Thank You both of You. Amen
Thanks for the feedback. Sadly, it's been one of the biggest topics we've had to help with. The good news is that God is healing people who've battled this.
God's timing is always perfect!! Excellent teaching .... confirmation of what I experienced just this week as I walked through some inner healing with a trusted person. I look forward to hearing more .... because yes, this is rampant in the church today .... for reasons you've mentioned. It needs to stop ..... and only God can stop it .... but with quality teaching to guide and help us. Bless you more and thank you both.
One thing I've found about spiritual abusers is that they are not stupid. In other words they have caught on to the language of 'spiritual abuse' and they end up creating a series about other people being the 'spiritual abusers' so that they can get the attention off themselves and lead their victims to blame everyone else except for their abuser.
19:48 - 19:55 If I could go back and change it, it would be that. Live with integrity. But I didn't. I chose to be angry and ruminate and try to defend myself and then I fell into a major depression in the new area that God has me. And now I have to heal from THAT in addition to the crappy way I left my last ministry.
I was abused for a year and a half in Waco by a minister. I've been trying to get help but I can't afford it. I want to receive Christian Counseling and I want to heal spiritually because of this.
Hugs sent your way. Plz look at covert narcissism and just know sometimes the church means well , you know and Jesus / God knows. It’s hard to walk alone and to leave your family and everything and everyone you know. - it will hurt for years and years . And a lot of ppl don’t get it. Though they mean well , they don’t understand but Jesus Christ knows rejection . It’s a hurt so deep that only He can help. Then we are here all alone trying to figure out ????But though so painfully hard at first . I kept to myself just thankful to be alive. I could only afford a place with no electricity at first but running water ( though cold ) I was alone with My Bible and Jesus. He showed me He was always with me. I couldn’t and still try to understand what I thought love was. Iv had to leave my children and they had my grandchildren and Iv not met them. I think the thing that hurts the worst is not being included. But they’re all deceived. And God spared me , gave me anger and strength to walk away after trying to get them to to see the errors and hurt they caused but they despised me. So I say I’m so proud of you. You are amazingly strong to survive and go through and come out of insane situations that Jesus knows. ( your going to feel awful and “ unclean for awhile “ but it’s not true ❤. Don’t get on yourself if you don’t trust anyone or even want to be around others , but are lonely for companionship. I hear you. And you strong that’s why you got picked out to be picked on. The weirdest part is we miss them. And we love them. ( it’s called Stockholm syndrome it that helps you any ). Don’t rush your healing ❤️🩹 and remember Jesus knows and loves you 1st Corinthians 13:4
I definitely have experienced spiritual abuse. I think a lot at different times in my life. I can’t even process it. One example was when I was married to an abusive man I mean so abusive I could have lost my life. There were several things that happened around that entire experience. One that stands out was the minister that told me the reason my husband was abusing me was because I had a Jezebel demon and I need a deliverance. That was why I was being abused. I believed him this was so many years ago and it still bothers me. There were lots of other things that happened around that situation that were actually terrible. I’ve had many other experiences like sitting in a church and the pastor yelling at everyone telling us that if the church went under, it would be our fault because we were not giving enough money to the church or soon after our youth, pastors wife passed away from cancer him saying from the pulpit the reason why people die of cancer is because they don’t have enough faith. I think I could actually write a book of things that I experienced personally or sat and listen to so many things at this point I am not gonna attend, organize church at least not for a good while and when I do if I do, it’s not gonna be the kind of churches that I grew up and I just can’t do it anymore as far as leadership that we’re not supposed to worship leadership and I get that they are just people just like we are even the man that said I had the demon I really believe he meant wellhe was sweet, but the things that are happening lately like child abuse being covered up and stuff like that and churches that one’s just a tough one for me super tough. I have been to therapy and I’ll probably do some more therapy when I can afford it, but anyway, prayers would help.
I think your definition of spiritual abuse is right on. Active and passive abuse, misusing influence in the name of Jesus, either in leadership or in family.
Yes I wrote a letter to the sources and told them what had happened and it is very sad a lot of their reaction but thank God I escaped out of that toxic environment
The problem with social media is how many Christins preach out of condemnation or people who manipulate scripture and then there a Christian who condemn nonbelievers instead of showing love. Just feel like there is a Christian everywhere I look telling me what I’m not doing or focusing on things that really need to be in God’s hands
I’ve been outa the UPC for over 20 yrs, I’ve once again had my spirit reignited, seeming overnight, and the same feelings of fear, condemnation etc have reared their ugly head. It’s true spiritual abuse is very real, and the damage it does to your soul can’t be understated, I’m sooooo happy I’ve found your vids, I’ve been praying God would lead to see, hear something to help me outa this horrible place, I’m FINALLY seeing some light, have to, got a baby girl born in 3 weeks
So glad it was helpful! I am excited for your new season of being a father. May you experience the joy of fathering as you receive the blessing of being a son, who is loved by your Father in heaven.
It's true. Be broken with your brothers and sisters together. You can be a leader in the church and admit your brokenness, but that rarely happens because of the structure. Grew up in a family of preachers. There is a pressure to be flawless, but that idea is extremely flawed. Live authentic to the best of your ability serving God, but being raw and humble, because none of us sit that high - none. Just live the way God wants; there is no need to retaliate or to explain when your actions speak volumes more. They won't get it or see you - God sees you and knows.
I love this and thank you for your vulnerability. I served in the ministry on some level for 30 years. I experienced spiritual abuse not from a sense of control but because people believed they were right. They felt it was their responsibility to step in and call out what they considered “sin”. Where is the line drawn?
So glad that you guys are out there I was looking for the website because I've been writing my book and actually if you know of anyone that is a freelance writer and wants to help other people in abuse anyone who has editor or freelance skills as my book is ready for that stage but yes it was 15 years of my life that I am and one of my books writing about what cause a lot of symptoms of PTSD happened to me
Happens all the time. I feel the devil tempts them more the higher than go. And because they already don’t have those deep roots when they grow too high, they are destined for a terrible fall. Emotional, childhood foundations must be fixed before we build high.
I was under a spiritually abusive spiritual father who would scream and swear at me during confession, place obediences on me and tell me I needed to be chastized all the time. I have been suicidal, in and out of mental hospitals and lost my girlfriend of 5 years and have to drop out of graduate school. I now have ptsd as well as bipolar schitzoeffective disorder and hallucinate every day. I hate my life and wish the past 10 years never happened.
I'm not ignoring what's going on and I'm trying to write my book as a warning and also what I've been through allows me to minister to people who have church hurt and I tell them do not give up on God and I explain how God is not pleased with so many things going on in church but yes I would be interested in the resources
we need more humble, servant leaders. We need foot washings, anointing with oil, weeping with those who weep, etc. Let's get Real and do things Gods way. Concerts, smoke machines, etc. The Bible says that Gods house should be a house of prayer!!!!! the world sees the truth and they don't want part of it! If the church had the live in it that God wants, there wouldn't be enough seats. People are dying for Love. We need support groups and stop the gossiping too!!! God said He hates gossip. People get better counseling from their bartender and hairdressers. please hear what I am saying. I have spiritual PTSD. the last time I went to a church, in was shaking. This is not Gods will. And people tell me, well the church is a hospital for sick people. God is probably crying over this. When the church can get in one accord like in the upper room then you can see the power manifested! The church has become money making business!!
As crestons wife speaking I agree it's in both the leaders and the congregation not one or the other but it's in both both need to be addressed sometimes it's the leaders sometimes it's the congregation with the leaders with the congregation
I am homeless, living in my car. Severe ptsd. Lots of abuse and emotional brokenness. I do not trust god - i dont know how. There's so much fear and anxiety. Im looking for answers, but i do not know right from left anymore. I only feel lost, alone and in the dark. I have more questions than answers. Nothing makes sense anymore. Im just telling god - if he or it is even there - that i dont have answes, and cannot figure anything out. Im just trying to take one day at a time. So much uncertainty within and without. I dont even trust what's in the bible anymore.
Jesus loves you🥲I understand in some similar 🙏 for you,almost went homeless again, again everyday have fears of that again ten years now, amongst other things as well,
Yes pastors and their wives also have so much to deal with as well and need prayer, I could never imagine that, there is so much on there shoulders too
17:24 - 17:45 I have witnessed that this is true. And I believe sometimes it is because they need to insulate their ministry or they simply don't have the time.
Continued from my prior comment.... my sporitual abuse was not done out of control but because they thought it was the right thing to do. However that created so much fear and caused me and others to completely step away from our ministries or from the church or worse, from God. Causing fear or causing someone to feel unworthy or unloved is also spiritual abuse to me. I have seen it from every aspect of the church unfortunately. Thank God I have healed from that and I’m now helping others to heal from it as well. However, how are you able to to serve those who are no longer in an organized religion without projecting your interpretation of the Word and creating further abuse?
Thanks for the great feedback. I think the answers begins with what is important, after stepping out of abusive situations. I find when the dust settles and healing occurs, it becomes more clear to love people with great compassion as the highest priority. Then everything flows out of relationship. I find that I have released myself of the pressure to "fix" someone, but to be there to show my own journey of freedom and use that as a template, while loving them. Hope this makes sense.
@@marktdejesus Yes, that is my belief as well. But I heard you say something (and I may have misunderstood) about spiritual abuse not being included in telling people when they are "sinning". It has been my experience that when people project their belief and interpretation of the bible and what "sin" is, that spiritual abuse easily happens. For instance, my first experience of witnessing spiritual abuse was when my father was removed from his church and denomination because he remarried after being divorced for nearly 2 years. They said he was living in sin...and that is how they believed and used scripture to back it up. This is just one instance of the hundreds I have seen and personally experienced thru the years.
@@JonathanGeorgee I'd have to relisten to what I said, but Christians can be obsessed with the sin they want to point out, without walking through what the person needs in loving relationship. We never get to the healing the heart needs.
You mentioned gossip running the Church. Where do these RUclips channels that run sort of like a Christian TMZ fit in? I kind of enjoy hearing about what is going on in the Christian community .Is this wrong? Is this a gray area?
It's interesting in terms of this topic of spiritual abuse that those who preach the Absolute Truth of God straight from his word they are called false teachers. But as soon as those same people call out spiritual abusers as the actual false teacher those same false teachers are praised as well as called ('God's Anointed in whom you must not ever touch').
Why is the issue of mind control not being brought up here? I find that alarming. Obviously, the church of Scientology uses all the aspects of the BITE model, the standard for evaluating mind control. If a church or cult uses those aspects too, then the FBI should certainly be involved bc those people weren’t given informed consent before their autonomy was taken over. This is how Nazi Germany existed and currently, North Korea. I feel you’re both smart enough to know about this and I’m concerned that it’s not being brought up.
Ive came from an alcoholic dad who beat my mom, was sexually abused by my brother and my mom abandined me in their care. That was a picnic at the park w puppies and a hot dude and ice cream compared to SA.
The perfect church on Earth does not exist and you cannot make the perfect church. If you can prove me wrong and find this church DO NOT JOIN IT!!! If you do you will spoil it.
I don't think people who are talking about spiritual abuse are talking about normal church situations which just happen to be imperfect. Of course, people make mistakes and are imperfect. But, there are cultures out there that are domineering and incorrectly use scripture to batter people. Some have an authoritative leadership culture, which allows a leader to act against another person and always come out on top. There is no righteousness in it. Some cultures are toxic and people have to recover and have hope that there are churches that are safe for them. One of the biggest problems people face who have genuinely suffered spiritual abuse, is disconnecting that abuse from their relationship with God. When God is used to excuse whatever is happening to them, then God can easily be blamed and relationship with God affected. People can lose hope and faith as a result.
(Here is the etymology of 'cult'.) cult (n.) 1610s, "worship, homage" (a sense now obsolete); 1670s, "a particular form or system of worship;" from French culte (17c.), from Latin cultus "care, labor; cultivation, culture; worship, reverence," originally "tended, cultivated," past participle of colere "to till" (see colony). The word was rare after 17c., but it was revived mid-19c. (sometimes in French form culte) with reference to ancient or primitive systems of religious belief and worship, especially the rites and ceremonies employed in such worship. Extended meaning "devoted attention to a particular person or thing" is from 1829. Cult. An organized group of people, religious or not, with whom you disagree. [Hugh Rawson, "Wicked Words," 1993] Cult is a term which, as we value exactness, we can ill do without, seeing how completely religion has lost its original signification. Fitzedward Hall, "Modern English," 1873]
start preaching the Bible. Preach what Jesus preached. Jesus said, if I be lifted up I will draw all mean unto me!!! Let's worship Jesus, the King if Kings, the only true Lord . Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord to the Glory of God the Father!!!! It's all about Jesus!!
This is so relevant. I have went through spiritual abuse at a ministry that I attended for about 8 years. I was a minister and elder at the church. I had approached the pastor about the gospel being preached at the church. I told him that I believe that if we hear more about what we need to do for GOD more than what HE has done for us, people will not be anchored in their identity. The response from the pastor was a personal attack. He told me the fact that I'm asking about the gospel is a bastard mentality. He said things in reference to my abilities as a father, husband, minister, as well as using confidential information that I shared with him in moments of weakness, to shame me. The confidential information he tried to use wasn't even correct, which made me feel like he wasn't interested in helping me in the first place. It put me in a real bad place, on top of my then wife, agreeing with the pastor about all he said about me and our children. Your podcasts have helped me deal with my issues as well as shed light to some things happening around me. I am looking forward to part 2.
Thanks for writing David and I am sorry it went down like that. I pray the discussion in these episodes will allow comfort and healing to flow. Thanks for writing and for allowing God to heal your heart.
Thank you for your vulnerability David in sharing your story. It was healing for me, as a pastor myself, I have been through SO MANY cycles of older pastors doing the EXACT same things to me, and then i realized some of my 'friends', we fall out, caz they would do that SAME thing to me! And I started to wonder if there's something wrong with me to be attracting that all the time.. your sharing validated to me that in fact, I was being abused! Contrary to all of them throwing at me, at how 'unteachable' I am, which if I was, I won't have allowed all these relationships to last so much longer than it should have!
I would love to hear how you have since healed through all this, if you don't mind sharing
@@CymonetheBeloved Healing for me started when I began to separate how I was treated by others and how GOD sees me. Then I began taking deeper dives into how do I view myself. I began seeing counselors about it. Don't get me wrong, I still deal with the impact that those moments have had on my heart and mind, but I am much better than I used to be. Finding others who value who you are as a person definitely helps as well.
@@davidbramlett8193 thank you for your honest reply. that's very helpful and encouraging
Problem about spiritual abuse its like Elijah in the cave. You are hurt, alone and at the mercy of GOD. The churches apathy do not offer help but instead protect the abusive leader. Its so sad to think there are so many believers outside the church in pain and losing faith. Pastors don't apologise unless it looks good for their ministry. Its amazing have how false gossip can be heard from leaders.
You make some valid points.
Yes it is
@@undercoverchurch5370 Amen!
@@undercoverchurch5370 I appreciate your mentioning 'apathy' and how people protect the pastors as well as each other, except when it comes to owning their stuff and taking up for the orphan or the widow.
I never imagined this being in the church, and as prevalent as it actually is.
I have had to deal with spiritual abuse in the church as many others have. This topic is rarely discussed. I am glad Mark has brought this topic to the surface. One of the things God taught me going thru this was. I am responsible for how I respond to what is going on around me. I am to check my own heart and not get overly focused on other peoples baggage. Secondly I learned this is a spiritual battle not a personal battle. Ephesians 6 talks about Satan trying to destroy our relationships with others especially in the church. If we have the right perspective when we go thru something like this. We will be better people with stronger character when we come out the other side. Your trials will mold you and make you more usable for Gods calling on your life.
Hi Mr. Brian,
Where does it mention this in Ephesians 6? I see where it talks about us being drawn from God by mentioning spiritual warfare. This part too:
“Don’t work only while being watched, as people-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing God’s will from your heart. Serve with a good attitude, as to the Lord and not to people,”
Ephesians 6:6-7 CSB
@@priscillacyannimorris
Hello Priscilla
Ephesians 6:11-12 Says we are fighting a spiritual war, our battle is not against people, it’s against the rulers, powers, and spiritual forces in supernatural places.
Read Ephesians 6:11-16 to get the context.
When we have conflicts with others, on the surface it looks like a personal battle. But behind the scenes there is a spiritual war taking place. Satan is trying to create war amongst other people. It is our responsibility to take care of our side of the fence (our heart) and allow Gods to deal with the other party(s)
If we are going to successfully deal with the “wars” that come our way. We must develop a “renewed mind.” Read Romans 12:2. This is a process, not an event. Be patient, and allow the Word of God to transform you over time. ✝️
I've been diagnosed with Complex-PTSD and church is a major trigger. I'm also a former Pastor's wife. Spiritual abuse began very early in childhood by my parents. Cherry picked verses that gives parents permission to a abuse. Black and white binary thinking is terrifying to a child because love is often conditional. Children in these homes have no voice and are often accused as rebellious. I'm still not allowed to have my own spiritual perspective. I'm on the Wednesday night prayer list a lot! Lol! The church often reinforces this characterization. Shame based discipline. And then there's a abuse experienced in the church. I too, have been on both sides. My particular denomination, Independent Fundamental Baptist, known for cutting costs by hiring the "two for one special" in pastoral ministry. As youth ministers we were required to perform several different jobs in the church that left us (and other staff members) disenchanted and completely depleted. Being shamed when asking for some much needed time off. Or not being thankful for the opportunity to serve... These are a few examples.. It sounds as if I'm bitter. I needed to understand the abuse before I could forgive and move on. However, it's the spiritual abuse in experienced in childhood that continues to be a issue if I'm not proactive and self-aware of my heart.
This speaks to our situation so strongly. It's been almost a year and still seeking God on true healing and forgiveness. Thank you for your testimony. I've been looking at lots of resources on this and yours is incredibly insightful and helpful.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! 😟😭😔. So many people, mentors, pastors will not confront in love.
So much abuse from leaders in church and then also in my marriage to someone who grew up in the JWs and did not get emotional help out of it. Many pastors are hirelings who follow a denominational set of rules without the Spirit. And so many Christians are happy to be spoon fed milk instead of getting messy and bearing one anothers burdens.
Wow!! I have been trying to pinpoint what I was feeling and you have described in detail some situations that I have been in and totally broke my heart. I was misunderstood and felt mistreated while the church is meant to be a safe place I don't feel safe going back. Everything your saying is bringing healing that I wasn't all at wrong they just didn't know how to deal with me. A learning process for them but unfortunately I just don't feel safe going back anymore... you guys are very respectful about this to without bitterness. This is Holy Spirit ministry. I can't believe how you got everything and it wasn't just me going crazy.
Thanks for writing Julie and for your great feedback. It's great that you have the perspective that "they didn't know how to deal with you." It will lead you to healthier places. We're glad that we can be a help to identify the pain of this and encourage true healing in the midst of this.
Mark DeJesus Unfortunately you tell a secret (what your calling it) to the pastor but it doesn't stay confidential. In the name of decernment they disclose the secret to others. They allow you to be vulnerable open up about a matter then they use it against you rather than to help you. Then they promote them selves of having the gift of decernment but really it's just suspicion just to look good in front of the other leader so they receive browny points. Then you lose your confidence and feel even more like a sinner. The thing is I have always been open for correction. I have been a born again Christian since 13 and I abided in a legalistic system that I believed was right. But after so much low self esteem and verbal abuse and a lot of unfair treatment while in ministry since I was 15 to 26 I was emotionally unequipped to handle life and had severe depression. I left there and a lot happened from 26-30 I'm now 33. I went to my second church which I don't feel safe anymore. I am so vulnerable. But I believe God has grace on me as I can't face anyone from there. I feel trapped and panicking. I also was married within the system and my marriage was horrible. I'm still married. But I have had stand up. I will not be bullied anymore. But I'm not the same woman to God any more. I was beautifully submissive and vulnerable in a Godly way. Would obey. But I have been manipulated, controlled, verbally mistreated. I even obey to my point of marriage with my authority. I have had to protect myself in so many ways... No one gets it Ps Mark. Please pray for me. I am severely broken...God has given me a gift of song writing. I get a lot out through that. It's been a blessing.
I'm so sorry to hear that. I believe in reading your words that there is a heart you have to heal and be made whole. For that, I rejoice. Please be sure to sign up for the upcoming video series that will go deeper and be sure to check out part #2 of this series.
Mark DeJesus sure thing. I will.
I don't feel save going to church either, you are. ot alone.
Amazing because I open my eyes this morning and I got a revelation that the intimidation manipulation and controlling was actually a form of bullying and so that helped me see a different perspective although it effective 28 years of my life I'm believing that God's grace is bigger and he can still finish the work that he started in me
I am so thankful that this topic has been brought to the front and the openness and truth...the protection of persons etc., is so good. God Bless you.Thank You both of You. Amen
Thanks for the feedback. Sadly, it's been one of the biggest topics we've had to help with. The good news is that God is healing people who've battled this.
God's timing is always perfect!! Excellent teaching .... confirmation of what I experienced just this week as I walked through some inner healing with a trusted person. I look forward to hearing more .... because yes, this is rampant in the church today .... for reasons you've mentioned. It needs to stop ..... and only God can stop it .... but with quality teaching to guide and help us. Bless you more and thank you both.
Carolyn Cfs so glad to hear it's speaking to your heart and journey. May more and more hearts be healed.
One thing I've found about spiritual abusers is that they are not stupid. In other words they have caught on to the language of 'spiritual abuse' and they end up creating a series about other people being the 'spiritual abusers' so that they can get the attention off themselves and lead their victims to blame everyone else except for their abuser.
19:48 - 19:55 If I could go back and change it, it would be that. Live with integrity. But I didn't. I chose to be angry and ruminate and try to defend myself and then I fell into a major depression in the new area that God has me. And now I have to heal from THAT in addition to the crappy way I left my last ministry.
I was abused for a year and a half in Waco by a minister. I've been trying to get help but I can't afford it. I want to receive Christian Counseling and I want to heal spiritually because of this.
Hugs sent your way. Plz look at covert narcissism and just know sometimes the church means well , you know and Jesus / God knows. It’s hard to walk alone and to leave your family and everything and everyone you know. - it will hurt for years and years . And a lot of ppl don’t get it. Though they mean well , they don’t understand but Jesus Christ knows rejection . It’s a hurt so deep that only He can help. Then we are here all alone trying to figure out ????But though so painfully hard at first . I kept to myself just thankful to be alive. I could only afford a place with no electricity at first but running water ( though cold ) I was alone with My Bible and Jesus. He showed me He was always with me. I couldn’t and still try to understand what I thought love was. Iv had to leave my children and they had my grandchildren and Iv not met them. I think the thing that hurts the worst is not being included. But they’re all deceived. And God spared me , gave me anger and strength to walk away after trying to get them to to see the errors and hurt they caused but they despised me. So I say I’m so proud of you. You are amazingly strong to survive and go through and come out of insane situations that Jesus knows. ( your going to feel awful and “ unclean for awhile “ but it’s not true ❤. Don’t get on yourself if you don’t trust anyone or even want to be around others , but are lonely for companionship. I hear you. And you strong that’s why you got picked out to be picked on.
The weirdest part is we miss them. And we love them. ( it’s called Stockholm syndrome it that helps you any ).
Don’t rush your healing ❤️🩹 and remember Jesus knows and loves you 1st Corinthians 13:4
I definitely have experienced spiritual abuse. I think a lot at different times in my life. I can’t even process it. One example was when I was married to an abusive man I mean so abusive I could have lost my life. There were several things that happened around that entire experience. One that stands out was the minister that told me the reason my husband was abusing me was because I had a Jezebel demon and I need a deliverance. That was why I was being abused. I believed him this was so many years ago and it still bothers me. There were lots of other things that happened around that situation that were actually terrible. I’ve had many other experiences like sitting in a church and the pastor yelling at everyone telling us that if the church went under, it would be our fault because we were not giving enough money to the church or soon after our youth, pastors wife passed away from cancer him saying from the pulpit the reason why people die of cancer is because they don’t have enough faith. I think I could actually write a book of things that I experienced personally or sat and listen to so many things at this point I am not gonna attend, organize church at least not for a good while and when I do if I do, it’s not gonna be the kind of churches that I grew up and I just can’t do it anymore as far as leadership that we’re not supposed to worship leadership and I get that they are just people just like we are even the man that said I had the demon I really believe he meant wellhe was sweet, but the things that are happening lately like child abuse being covered up and stuff like that and churches that one’s just a tough one for me super tough. I have been to therapy and I’ll probably do some more therapy when I can afford it, but anyway, prayers would help.
I think your definition of spiritual abuse is right on. Active and passive abuse, misusing influence in the name of Jesus, either in leadership or in family.
Yes I wrote a letter to the sources and told them what had happened and it is very sad a lot of their reaction but thank God I escaped out of that toxic environment
The problem with social media is how many Christins preach out of condemnation or people who manipulate scripture and then there a Christian who condemn nonbelievers instead of showing love. Just feel like there is a Christian everywhere I look telling me what I’m not doing or focusing on things that really need to be in God’s hands
I’ve been outa the UPC for over 20 yrs, I’ve once again had my spirit reignited, seeming overnight, and the same feelings of fear, condemnation etc have reared their ugly head. It’s true spiritual abuse is very real, and the damage it does to your soul can’t be understated, I’m sooooo happy I’ve found your vids, I’ve been praying God would lead to see, hear something to help me outa this horrible place, I’m FINALLY seeing some light, have to, got a baby girl born in 3 weeks
So glad it was helpful! I am excited for your new season of being a father. May you experience the joy of fathering as you receive the blessing of being a son, who is loved by your Father in heaven.
@@marktdejesus 🙏 thank you
Well said. That has been my biggest frustration. Love you brother proud of you
Awesome bro. Glad to know it was helpful!
It's true. Be broken with your brothers and sisters together. You can be a leader in the church and admit your brokenness, but that rarely happens because of the structure. Grew up in a family of preachers. There is a pressure to be flawless, but that idea is extremely flawed. Live authentic to the best of your ability serving God, but being raw and humble, because none of us sit that high - none. Just live the way God wants; there is no need to retaliate or to explain when your actions speak volumes more. They won't get it or see you - God sees you and knows.
Great points Cherie! Thanks for your feedback.
I love this and thank you for your vulnerability. I served in the ministry on some level for 30 years. I experienced spiritual abuse not from a sense of control but because people believed they were right. They felt it was their responsibility to step in and call out what they considered “sin”. Where is the line drawn?
So glad that you guys are out there I was looking for the website because I've been writing my book and actually if you know of anyone that is a freelance writer and wants to help other people in abuse anyone who has editor or freelance skills as my book is ready for that stage but yes it was 15 years of my life that I am and one of my books writing about what cause a lot of symptoms of PTSD happened to me
Glad to hear this was helpful. Here is a link to the online course: markdejesus.thinkific.com/courses/healing-from-spiritual-abuse
Happens all the time. I feel the devil tempts them more the higher than go. And because they already don’t have those deep roots when they grow too high, they are destined for a terrible fall. Emotional, childhood foundations must be fixed before we build high.
Yeah it's really important that we pay attention to the issues of the heart and heal as we move into new stages.
I appreciate your courage in dealing with this topic.
Thank you Mark, this is so helpful to me.
The Jezebel-passive Ahab issue happened at my last church and is one big reason why I left.
I was under a spiritually abusive spiritual father who would scream and swear at me during confession, place obediences on me and tell me I needed to be chastized all the time. I have been suicidal, in and out of mental hospitals and lost my girlfriend of 5 years and have to drop out of graduate school. I now have ptsd as well as bipolar schitzoeffective disorder and hallucinate every day. I hate my life and wish the past 10 years never happened.
My heart goes out to you Alex.
Also followers are abusive toward other followers in my experience
I'm not ignoring what's going on and I'm trying to write my book as a warning and also what I've been through allows me to minister to people who have church hurt and I tell them do not give up on God and I explain how God is not pleased with so many things going on in church but yes I would be interested in the resources
Hi Happy New Year that is on the way...i need the onther part of this healing
we need more humble, servant leaders. We need foot washings, anointing with oil, weeping with those who weep, etc. Let's get Real and do things Gods way. Concerts, smoke machines, etc. The Bible says that Gods house should be a house of prayer!!!!! the world sees the truth and they don't want part of it! If the church had the live in it that God wants, there wouldn't be enough seats. People are dying for Love. We need support groups and stop the gossiping too!!! God said He hates gossip. People get better counseling from their bartender and hairdressers. please hear what I am saying. I have spiritual PTSD. the last time I went to a church, in was shaking. This is not Gods will. And people tell me, well the church is a hospital for sick people. God is probably crying over this. When the church can get in one accord like in the upper room then you can see the power manifested! The church has become money making business!!
Still processing..I mean having experience this. Truly relate.
As crestons wife speaking I agree it's in both the leaders and the congregation not one or the other but it's in both both need to be addressed sometimes it's the leaders sometimes it's the congregation with the leaders with the congregation
I am homeless, living in my car. Severe ptsd. Lots of abuse and emotional brokenness. I do not trust god - i dont know how. There's so much fear and anxiety. Im looking for answers, but i do not know right from left anymore. I only feel lost, alone and in the dark. I have more questions than answers. Nothing makes sense anymore.
Im just telling god - if he or it is even there - that i dont have answes, and cannot figure anything out. Im just trying to take one day at a time. So much uncertainty within and without. I dont even trust what's in the bible anymore.
Jesus loves you🥲I understand in some similar 🙏 for you,almost went homeless again, again everyday have fears of that again ten years now, amongst other things as well,
Yes pastors and their wives also have so much to deal with as well and need prayer, I could never imagine that, there is so much on there shoulders too
@@Leannot35 💜
17:24 - 17:45 I have witnessed that this is true. And I believe sometimes it is because they need to insulate their ministry or they simply don't have the time.
Abuse involves an in balance of power, often....not equal power
I want to help in this abusive sitiations...i need help in this...
Continued from my prior comment.... my sporitual abuse was not done out of control but because they thought it was the right thing to do. However that created so much fear and caused me and others to completely step away from our ministries or from the church or worse, from God. Causing fear or causing someone to feel unworthy or unloved is also spiritual abuse to me. I have seen it from every aspect of the church unfortunately. Thank God I have healed from that and I’m now helping others to heal from it as well. However, how are you able to to serve those who are no longer in an organized religion without projecting your interpretation of the Word and creating further abuse?
Thanks for the great feedback. I think the answers begins with what is important, after stepping out of abusive situations. I find when the dust settles and healing occurs, it becomes more clear to love people with great compassion as the highest priority. Then everything flows out of relationship. I find that I have released myself of the pressure to "fix" someone, but to be there to show my own journey of freedom and use that as a template, while loving them. Hope this makes sense.
@@marktdejesus Yes, that is my belief as well. But I heard you say something (and I may have misunderstood) about spiritual abuse not being included in telling people when they are "sinning". It has been my experience that when people project their belief and interpretation of the bible and what "sin" is, that spiritual abuse easily happens. For instance, my first experience of witnessing spiritual abuse was when my father was removed from his church and denomination because he remarried after being divorced for nearly 2 years. They said he was living in sin...and that is how they believed and used scripture to back it up. This is just one instance of the hundreds I have seen and personally experienced thru the years.
@@JonathanGeorgee I'd have to relisten to what I said, but Christians can be obsessed with the sin they want to point out, without walking through what the person needs in loving relationship. We never get to the healing the heart needs.
I do believe that if we don't learn to do loving relationship more effectively, then pointing out sin can easily be condemning and abusive.
You mentioned gossip running the Church. Where do these RUclips channels that run sort of like a Christian TMZ fit in? I kind of enjoy hearing about what is going on in the Christian community .Is this wrong? Is this a gray area?
It's interesting in terms of this topic of spiritual abuse that those who preach the Absolute Truth of God straight from his word they are called false teachers. But as soon as those same people call out spiritual abusers as the actual false teacher those same false teachers are praised as well as called ('God's Anointed in whom you must not ever touch').
Struggling to forgive 💔
good video ✅
I would not watch it again
Why is the issue of mind control not being brought up here? I find that alarming. Obviously, the church of Scientology uses all the aspects of the BITE model, the standard for evaluating mind control. If a church or cult uses those aspects too, then the FBI should certainly be involved bc those people weren’t given informed consent before their autonomy was taken over. This is how Nazi Germany existed and currently, North Korea. I feel you’re both smart enough to know about this and I’m concerned that it’s not being brought up.
Ive came from an alcoholic dad who beat my mom, was sexually abused by my brother and my mom abandined me in their care.
That was a picnic at the park w puppies and a hot dude and ice cream compared to SA.
The perfect church on Earth does not exist and you cannot make the perfect church. If you can prove me wrong and find this church DO NOT JOIN IT!!! If you do you will spoil it.
I don't think people who are talking about spiritual abuse are talking about normal church situations which just happen to be imperfect. Of course, people make mistakes and are imperfect. But, there are cultures out there that are domineering and incorrectly use scripture to batter people. Some have an authoritative leadership culture, which allows a leader to act against another person and always come out on top. There is no righteousness in it. Some cultures are toxic and people have to recover and have hope that there are churches that are safe for them. One of the biggest problems people face who have genuinely suffered spiritual abuse, is disconnecting that abuse from their relationship with God. When God is used to excuse whatever is happening to them, then God can easily be blamed and relationship with God affected. People can lose hope and faith as a result.
I have dealt with spiritual abuse
Ohhhh been there !
(Here is the etymology of 'cult'.) cult (n.)
1610s, "worship, homage" (a sense now obsolete); 1670s, "a particular form or system of worship;" from French culte (17c.), from Latin cultus "care, labor; cultivation, culture; worship, reverence," originally "tended, cultivated," past participle of colere "to till" (see colony).
The word was rare after 17c., but it was revived mid-19c. (sometimes in French form culte) with reference to ancient or primitive systems of religious belief and worship, especially the rites and ceremonies employed in such worship. Extended meaning "devoted attention to a particular person or thing" is from 1829.
Cult. An organized group of people, religious or not, with whom you disagree. [Hugh Rawson, "Wicked Words," 1993]
Cult is a term which, as we value exactness, we can ill do without, seeing how completely religion has lost its original signification. Fitzedward Hall, "Modern English," 1873]
start preaching the Bible. Preach what Jesus preached. Jesus said, if I be lifted up I will draw all mean unto me!!! Let's worship Jesus, the King if Kings, the only true Lord . Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord to the Glory of God the Father!!!! It's all about Jesus!!