Funny story with baby names : some time ago, I said that if I ever had a daughter, I'd like to name her Alice. My little brother said "oh, me too!". I think the consensus was "well, whoever gets there first gets the name!". But, surprise surprise! I then discovered I'm trans, came out, and now it's MY name, haha!
By the time my friend got married, most of her friends were either married or didn't want to get married. So she did a plush cat toss to those who were willing. If you caught it, you were encouraged to adopt a kitty. It was explained ahead of time and she has so many cat lovers in her friends and family.
The way the bride and maid of honor called her after and said she tarnished the wedding makes me think they were going to aim it at OP. I might be ascribing worse motives, but the way they were bringing up her politics and fixating on it makes me suspicious.
At American weddings is is VERY common to be pressured or even forced to participate in the bouquet toss by other wedding guests or the bridal party. I'm a single woman who isn't particularly interested in getting married and I have tried to quietly stand in the back at several weddings while this tradition was happening. At all but one, I was physically pushed out onto the floor by other wedding guests (which puts me in the spotlight uncomfortably). Attempting to slip quietly off to the bathroom seems very reasonable. Its a super weird exception to the normal rules of personal space.
Right, I was literally pressured into doing this even when I was 11 years old 💀 They didn’t give me an option. And then the grown ass women next to me would push and shove each other while I was in the middle & had no chance of catching it anyway.
From what I've seen EVERY element is a much bigger deal in america. The whole concept of a 'rehearsal dinner' has only really started to be a thing here in the UK the last couple of years but seems to be a massive thing in america, the "daddy daughter dance" is something I've never even heard of in a UK wedding (like maybe the bride might dance with her dad if they both want but we don't really have a whole formalised part of the reception for it), I've only ever seen or heard of the garter thing on TV though maybe it used to be more of a thing idk, the whole gift registry thing tends to be like an amazon wish list at best and not something you sign up with a store for and everyone is expected to buy something off it, and while I'm more than sure that there are wedding planners in the UK, I've never known a single wedding that used one. Like, weddings are still a big deal and thousands of pounds are still spent on them, and there's still tons of drama and loads of traditions associated, but amercan weddings kinda make ours look like a regular party with a formal dress code.
Yep. I’ve been FORCED into a bouquet toss before and it isn’t even about not wanting to get married, I’m just super uncomfortable being out in the spotlight and I usually wind up standing there awkwardly and avoiding even trying to catch it which frankly I’d say is more rude than just slipping away quietly 😅
As a never-married person, I LOATHE the bouquet toss! That said, I once went to a wedding where the bride called a (single) bridesmaid to the front & center and had a whole speech prepared where she presented her with the bouquet. It was SO cringey!
I got the idea of the first one that she just cancelled their reservations without asking first. If it was that kind of a restaurant, where you need to book three months in advance, she could have at least asked, if the boyfriend wanted to go with someone else.
Me too. Also, why did she start the story with a completely unrelated statement about money? Seems to me like she wanted an excuse to not have to pay for an expensive dinner and what sounds like a lot of drinks.
Its also odd how he also didnt tell her he was taking time off work which is something significant for the partner to know. Sounds like communication on both parts where lacking and respect/curtesy not given
I was going to say this, too. If the bf was upset because he wouldn't be able to get his favorite seasonal, she could have offered to pay for his meal and have him go with a friend. Then, also take him out at a later date. That's probably what I would have done.
@@CoreenMontagnaThat might be part of it but I read it more as "I can't afford to treat my boyfriend like this often. So it's reserved for a special occasion" and that rarity makes the cancellation more upsetting. It could also be viewed transactionally: the bf did a big expensive celebration for OP and now wants something similar and/or OP feels bad about not giving back in the same fashion.
On the cat topic, I have a few notes. OP states in comments that the dinner would be from 5PM (17 00) until the wee hours, so at least 7 hours away from the cat. She also stated she does not have friends or family in her life, just her boyfriend, so her boyfriend and cat would be her 2 most important beings. She was also keeping him updated on the events of that night, so it was likely not a cancelling at the restaurant, but cancelling her night out with him. Also, shame on any comment thinking that leaving a cat alone with a cone on is a wise idea. I barely left my foundling alone (was checking on her during chores and she was asleep), only to suddenly hear a skitter and thud sound because she got stuck behind our water heater, and the cone was blocking her jumping and threatening her stitches. I've had a dog get stuck in a constant circle walk because he broke his cone against a table leg and it left him stuck. Had another cat ignore the fountain he could drink from for on he actually didn't really use and struggled to drink where he was inhaling water. Cones do not mean the animals can be unsupervised! It's still dangerous!
So my vet does medical daycare, it's 24/7 for cats and during the day time till 6 for dogs. If your pet is injured and needs supervision they can watch them for a reasonable fee. But I don't know how common that is and if other vets do it. That would really have been the only option I could think of
@@bboops23personally I'd only resort to that in very specific emergencies. Being at the vet stresses most pets out. 100% guarantee they'll be in a room with other pets being watched, maybe some recovering from procedures, so they're going to be more scared than if they were home. Additionally, they might wonder why you left them there 💔 The thought of leaving my lil floofs there to go have a long dinner, no, it's not an option imo. But I do see where you're coming from... it does mean the pet is already at the vet in case the situation worsens. For what I know, the vets in our area don't do this though. 🤔
Thank you for your comment and examples. It's so important to spread awareness! I hope people also realize that when they're watching over an ill or recovering pet, they should not wear headphones... if you had, then you wouldn't have heard the skitter. Let's not linger on what would have happened then 😥
Not to mention, the whole idea of a bouquet toss is to see who will get married next. If it was a married person they wouldn’t be forced to participate because they obviously are not getting married next, so why would you make someone who explicitly doesn’t plan on getting married do it.
There is an angel of a cat that hangs out at my apt complex and like... It's very fluffy and I am not going to hold it down to check the bits so said cat is just my sweet little gender neutral Pillow (they're super fluffy and soft like a pillow).
In other AITA on Shaaba's channel she often talks about how choosing to remove yourself from a situation you don't like is always your prerogative, so I was surprised that she was so against someone stepping out of a wedding for the bouquet toss? I mean, if it makes them uncomfortable and maybe its difficult to hide that feeling they should be allowed to leave. I feel like removing yourself from something or someone for peace of mind would almost never be the drama, because often the fact that others are so emotionally invested or pressed is the REASON you need to step away. I know the situation isn't that serious, but i think the principal she's used before when dealing with ultimatums or "you must do this thing" situations applies here.
Agreed. I attended a wedding for my mom’s bf’s sister and my mom’s bf’s brother (who was in his 40s and I was 13) *forced* me onto the dance floor to catch the flowers. He grabbed my wrist and yanked me there. Then he told me to shake my hips and grind while dancing (keep in mind, he was 40s and I was 13). I would have ✨loved✨ to have left that wedding and that whole trashy family but I couldn’t because my mom refused. And now she’s married to that disgusting bf and is tied to that awful family 🤮🤮
I'm thinking she doesn't think anyone is pressuring this OP to do the toss. I did agree with her that leaving does seem rude, the best thing you can do it to be there and watch. But if it were the case where the OP was to be put on the spot (besides everyone having to wait on her) and being forced to catch that bouquet, then she would probably think differently?? idk. But yes, she does have people pleasing tendencies. Probably stems from having an asian family lol which I can relate with that
I was really surprised with her response too. A speech requires attention and quiet. But a bouquet toss is just a rowdy game. It's not the same to step out for a toss as it is to step out during a speech.
On the first one - if it was the other way round I bet the boyfriend would expect her to cancel her cat's birthday plans to stay home and look after him with his eye cyst 😂
Yeah, and the "when you get married" comments suggest they don't actually understand that she doesn't want to...and therefore wouldn't want to catch the bouquet, while someone who DID want to get married would have more fun doing that.
I've heard the toss comes from a time, where guests would try to ripp / cut off tiny pieces of the brides dress for good luck, so tossing the bouquet would give the married couple a quick way to exit. So the whole thing is actually unnecessary now.
Exactly. It`s one of those many things where people go "But it`s such a nice tradition". No. It`s a bullshit tradition from a time where woman were seen as cattle and it`s intention is quite clear even today. I will step to the side now, maybe a man can take my place and hustle to be the next one to marry?!
The wedding one reminded me of my aunts' wedding last year. There was a bouquet toss and my aunt asked me to take part in it. Thing is, they had just cut the cake and I desperately wanted that cake. So I declined to partake because CAKE. Nobody (I know of) judged me for declining to join the bouquet toss. I later apologized to my aunt just because I felt bad for declining, and she was like 'Nah, everything's good'. So it reaally doesn't have to be drama, the bride and those around her were simply AH.
Agree. They're the drama for making a mountain out of a mole hill. Anyone who doesn't know OP wouldn't have bat an eye if they didn't make a point to try to force her to join.
As a 12 year old I announced to everyone that I wanted to name my future daughter Brianna, I never changed my mind… I did however go into have 4 boys. And then my oldest son met a girl named Bri (Brianna) and even though they only dated for a week or so, she has been my “daughter that adopted me” for the last 10 years, and her 3 kids call me grandma! Sometimes things work out how they’re supposed to.
I’d argue that the fact that they messaged OP from the 2nd story that they were disappointed makes a better case for them going to the restroom. I’d argue that going back and forth with someone in the midst of a wedding is the opposite of polite. She was trying to politely excuse herself.
And it makes it clear they would have tried to force her to participate. If they were making such a fuss about it after, they absolutely would have tried to pressure her during it. She was likely trying to avoid that pressure. They were mad she didn't participate, not that she left the room. They would have been equally mad if she stayed and didn't take part.
It was not about the bouquet toss at all. They wanted her to succumb to their conservative values and make her stop being feminist. It`s about power and control. They can`t stand her being like that in general and just decided to tie this fight to the bouquet issue.
I have been in OP’s position… my friends who all know I don’t do flower tosses still would press me and I did finally resort to being out of the room then they happen….
I think the anti-feminism of a bouquet toss comes in with the idea that ALL single women are frothing at the mouth to get married. It doesn't matter what they say they want; society knows they really want to get married. I'm not cool with throwing anything that costs as much as a bridal bouquet generally does. Mine were artificial flowers donated by a retired florist friend, and I treasure them still. This lady came out of retirement and gave me her time and labor, and I will always love her for that.
Although it was just subtext, I'm surprised that nobody brought up the cost of taking care of the cat. The restaurant was very expensive, and emergency vet care is super pricey as well. It could be over a thousand dollars to care for the cat, which is more than most fancy restaurants. OP went out of her way to point out that her (ex)boyfriend made more money than her. It's not just the time (even if it were, cat>bf bday dinner) but money as well.
I didn’t even think about this! One of my cats ended up with a corneal ulcer that triggered a herpes flair (literally all the tissues around his eyeball swelled up to the point he couldn’t retract the lids and you could barely see his eyeball. Over the course of several appointments, lots and lots of medications, special food to stimulate his appetite as it dropped out of pain (yes he got an buprenex at the worst phase of it, and and two courses of onsior to help reduce swelling so we could actually get eye drops to HIT his eyeball and not just the fleshy bits.) We spent over a 1000, and we didn’t even do the last recommended recheck as we felt the stress of the visit (he was starting to get angry about all the medication handling, and he is a VERY stress sensitive cat) would trigger another flare of herpes. We continued the eyemeds and oral viral med until they ran out, or until his third eyelid was complete retractor and his eye looked more clear, and he was no longer squinting or swollen.
That's exactly where I thought the story was going. I was expecting her to say she cancelled it specifically because she couldn't afford it anymore. It's weird that she mentioned that otherwise.
Good point but I think she'd have mentioned that, she wants to make herself look like less of the arsehole, all of the OPs do. So I'm sure she'd have said it.
What about the boyfriend caring about his partner's wellbeing? His birthday dinner was more important that the well-being and mental health of his partner?
I read once where a cat passed out due to medication, and fell into their water bowl, then drowned. I don't think I could go out while my pet was sick and weakened - I get that things could happen at any moment, but the chance of injury goes up while your pet is unwell and being nearby could lessen the consequences.
My cat absolutely did NOT want to be alone after his emergency vet visit. He was doing okay and didn't need supervision for health reasons, but if I left him alone for even a minute, he would get extremely distressed and start loudly crying. Not all cats want to recuperate on their own. My little squish was practically glued to me for days after, bc he wasn't feeling well and wanted comfort. I think in the end, it depends very much on the cat, and only OP knows what her cat did or didn't need, which makes it hard to judge. She shouldn't have canceled reservations, though. Her BF could maybe have gone with a friend or something and didn't have to miss out on the dinner.
I don’t get the sense boyfriend would be too pleased that he partner was stressing about the cat the whole night and not focussing on him and being happy and celebratory, so it was probably lose-lose.
@@268anita Yeah. I would probably be trying not to cry, but failing because I can't control my emotions very well at all. I love my pets SO much, and that would be completely devastating.
For the cat health issue, my husband and I both agree that, whichever one of us had the birthday or event, the other person would stay with the cat. Every single time. The person staying behind would just get a friend to join Birthday or Event person. So, realistically, we'd both cancel everything and stay with the cat. But if something really couldn't be cancelled, we'd find someone else to go out with the person needing to leave the house. Cat would never be alone but the other person doesn't need to be alone either.
i would say that if the cat was already on meds and had seen a vet you also could get a responsible friend or cat sitter to stay with the cat. The cat will likely mostly sleep if its on meds, it just needs someone there to monitor its condition to make sure its getting better not worse. The couple could go out just to dinner for a few hours and have friend/cat sitter stay with the cat and update via txt or phone call if something changed for the worse. Thats if it was something that was really important to one of them and that person really wanted to spend it with their partner , its a do-able solution so that they could both have that time together but also know that the cat is being watched over.
@@ariannasantina I dunno about you, but if one of my pets had something serious going on like an affliction that may result in losing an eye, I would be sick to my stomach with worry. I would not want to go out anywhere, and certainly not to a fancy restaurant. I would'nt be good company either, not able to joke and laugh and tease like I usually do. I would've offered the possibility of bf going with someone else, but I absolutely would not be going.
@@animeartist888right? i feel like the best solution (imo) would be the bf coming over for a celebratory takeout meal, so they can be together on his birthday and celebrate and stuff while still being able to keep an eye on the cat. and then another night they could go out and celebrate if he still wants to. at least that’s what i’d do if i were the bf because i’d care a lot more about being with the person i love than going to some fancy restaurant. even if the restaurant is the issue and he couldn’t get take out and they wouldn’t be able to get a reservation another time, he could go alone or with a friend and celebrate with her another time.
The cat story.... Definitely not the drama for staying with the cat and only kind of the drama for not communicating better. Sure, she could have asked if he wanted to take someone else in her place or whatever but I'm sure the stress she was under led her to not being as logical as we can all be from the outside looking in. Fur babies are family members and require the same level of commitment as having a kid. I can't blame her for putting this little creature that she has a responsibility for ahead of her partner. If I were in the boyfriend's place in this situation I'd want her to stay with her beloved pet. I'd want to go over there and keep her company and try to make her feel better. Sure, missing out on the seasonal special at a fancy restaurant sucks but the well being of a living creature is far more important food and drinks.
The cat was in pain, so it seems cruel to just leave them there alone. At the absolute minimum it's ESH. Complaining about seasonal specials instead of caring about OP's cat seems like a major AH move
right? if i were the bf i’d go over to her house with some takeout and try to cheer her up/celebrate my birthday a bit. i might also want to go out with her and have fully celebrate for my birthday on the weekend, but id def just want to be with her on my actual birthday. maybe it’s just cuz i don’t like fancy restaurants, but it’s much more important to me to be with the people/person i love on my birthday than at a stupid restaurant. id try to meet her half way so we can still spend time together on my birthday, while also being able to keep an eye on the cat if anything goes south. plus i’d feel SO guilty if i made her go out and leave the cat alone if something bad did happen to the cat.
I've never disagreed with you guys on so many! lol. As a mostly closeted asexual 40 something female with almost 20 younger cousins, many of whom have had weddings, it is not at all an a-hole move to abstain and hide. I've even done it as a bridesmaid because I was not willing to be trotted out and pitied as the middle-aged singleton. Insisting and pressuring people to participate (which people have no problems doing, in my experience) is rude in the same way as asking someone when they're planning to start a family. Imagine if this was a baby shower where they had a "who's getting pregnant next?" tradition game and someone was quietly removing themselves. Would we be so quick to assume they're being rude, or would we think they might be made uncomfortable by the game and the discussions it inevitably brings up? You don't know why someone may not be planning or likely to either get married or have a baby and calling someone rude for not participating or absenting themselves is very presumptuous. And their reasoning was absolute bollocks. The cat one is a no brainer that the boyfriend is TA. He may be disappointed, but she was obviously very upset, and the cat was very ill, and he called her a selfish and a mega asshole?! I'd tell any friend of mine to kick him to the curb. That is not a proportionate response to missing a birthday dinner when a pet is seriously ill.
NOBODY wanted to do the bouquet toss at my best friend's wedding. We all kinda reluctantly stood up there and then jumped back like my friend had tossed a hornet's nest instead of plastic flowers. I was pushed toward it and picked it up like, "Ugh, fiiine!" We have laughed about it ever since.
The one with the bouquet toss, what I'm wondering is: If it was *that* important to the bride that her friend take part, even though her stance on it is well-known, why not have a chat about it beforehand? "Hey, OP, I know you don't normally take part in these things but it's one tradition I really love and would love for you to participate in, it's important to because here's why, would you consider doing it for me as a personal favor?" Which is not to say that OP would be obligated to do it even then, just that if OP's participation or not in that tradition was SO important to the bride, why is it only coming up after the fact?
Personally, if the cat was potentially going to lose an eye then I would be staying with the cat. If they needed to suddenly go to the vets then you need to be there. Also cats can really easily take off cones. But, I also don't really have anyone I trust to care for my cats if they are sick and I am busy.
A growth in the eye can, although of course very rare, pop when it's not completely expected. It's a condition that I would 100% be staying home for, even if there was someone that could watch them instead. Hope OP finds someone who cares about pets as much as they do. As sad as this is, it does warm my heart a little to hear from more good pet owners :)
Even just the mental stress I think it's totally reasonable to want to switch things up. Like, if I had a sick pet you'd better belive we'd be watching over it because it would cause us anxiety otherwise. My boos (and I) are really great around respecting change of plans (we're all low energy sometimes so it's super nice to be like "I can't do this today" and have that be respected). So it's kind of baffling to me that a partner would be like "choose my birthday celebration over caring for your pet which isn't eating".
@@solsystem1342we do not know for sure that boyfriend dismissed the cat being sick though. We do not even know for sure that the boyfriend was aware of how seriously sick the cat was. The upset could also be about OP cancelling the reservation (at a place where it is hard to get a reservation) without even talking to boyfriend first. Or at least giving him the option to go with someone else. Or maybe boyfriend felt the energy of OP not caring about him as much (which the edit about breaking up confirm) and that was upsetting to him. Maybe other stuff had been going on and boyfriend’s upset was a result of other situations where he did not felt like OP cared. I adore my cat and my partner and I are constantly giving each other updates about the cat (if she ate, if she is outside and might soon need to come in, if she looks unhappy,…) and I definitely would not want to go out if my cat where so sick, so I completely under OP on that point, but I also would be upset if my partner changes at last minute and without consulting me, plans that were hard to make and I was really looking forward to. I would very likely not call my boyfriend an a-hole about prioritising a pet, but we would need to have a discussion about communication and not cancelling important plans unilaterally.
OP with the cat was right imo. I get Jamie(and Shaaba) somewhat, it's nice for people when they can be laid back like that, but I'm a very worried pet owner myself. If one of the sweetems is feeling bad and wants to be comforted, there are many plans I'd cancel for that (and I'd want to have a partner who agrees). In this case especially, a growth or swelling in the eye can unexpectedly become a serious emergency in a splitsecond. If that thing pops from the pressure slowly building, your cat needs immediate care! I'll refrain from elaborating what would happen, my mind gets very detailed and guilt trip-y about it. I get the "you're not watching them 24/7 anyway" argument, but if I'm in the house the pet has the choice to be comforted by me AND I will hear them scream when it goes wrong (that's based on experience). I'd never be able to forgive myself if they die, all alone, while I'm out for something that could be cancelled. Considering the risk there was here, if a partner thinks their dinner is worth the risk of coming home to a dead cat then they need to get in the bin. Though I understand that not everyone would understand the severity on their own accord, then again I expect that OP would explain that risk. If not, communication issue.
Yeah I think the ‘not watching them 24/7’ thing makes sense in a way but also, she WOULD have been watching her while they were at dinner. Watching her for any amount of time is better than no amount of time, it’s goofy to say if you can’t be doing it all the time why bother doing it at all. Also, if my cat was so sick they weren’t eating I’d be setting alarms throughout the night so I could wake up and do checks. I think a lot of people don’t know an awful lot about cats and aren’t understanding the severity of the situation - which is fine, it just means their opinions here are misinformed. Also, there’s almost a 100% chance the cat already has a cone on, the vet would definitely have made sure of that and will have told OP to monitor her closely.
@@alex_blue5802 for sure. Getting upset that she cares about her cat more than him is so immature, why would you be more important than the being who relies on me for all of their needs??
@@leggyegg2890 Right?!?! I kept hoping someone would bring up the parallel of "what if this was OP's child instead of their cat?" and was surprised and rather upset by Shaaba and Jamie's opinion. This is a pretty serious illness, not just a little kitty cold. I wouldn't be able to go out at all much less eat with how literally sick I'd feel from worry. I would not be leaving that cat alone, and I'd probably be getting up to check on it all night, too.
@@animeartist888 I’m 100% sure shaaba and Jamie would have a different opinion if it were their cat, which is fair. I get the feeling that none of their cats have been very sick in the past, which is fantastic and I hope that continues for as long as possible. But I’m also sure that’s why their opinions came across as cold and misinformed. They obviously don’t really understand the situation so it would be unfair to judge them based on this. Cat health is complicated and most people don’t get it until it’s happening to their loved one!
for me the other feminist thing about the bouquet is that it’s specific to the women and symbolizes the archaic idea that specifically women want and need to get married. that idea is based on (sometimes still very relevant) economic disadvantages women face compared to men, causing them to need marriage to survive the closest men-centered concept in the wedding I can think of is the garter toss, which symbolizes good luck kinda too, but is actually based on the tradition of the couple, um, consummating the marriage where the garter proves the deed was done to the crowd
I love alcohol, I love the history of alcohol, I love mixology/bartending culture, I even make my own mead. That said I 100% agree with you, I don't need alcohol to have fun, I'm more than fine going to a dry party/ event and when I do drink I read the room first and behave accordingly. Is it a gingerly sip 1 drink kind of party? A Two drink, sober up by 1am, have a cup of coffee and safely drive home kind of party? Or a getting smashed and having a sleep over kind of party? And if one can't behave themselves they shouldn't drink at all. I talk loud and fast drunk but my god am I still polite. Also just to clarify, I'm not a high functioning alcoholic, just a social drinker.
I love alcohol, I love the history of alcohol, I love mixology/bartending culture, I even make my own mead. That said I 100% agree with you, I don't need alcohol to have fun, I'm more than fine going to a dry party/ event and when I do drink I read the room first and behave accordingly. Is it a gingerly sip 1 drink kind of party? A Two drink, sober up by 1am, have a cup of coffee and safely drive home kind of party? Or a getting smashed and having a sleep over kind of party? And if one can't behave themselves they shouldn't drink at all. I talk loud and fast drunk but my god am I still polite. Also just to clarify, I'm not a high functioning alcoholic, just a social drinker.
It's very rarely that people CAN'T enjoy themselves without drinking, it's just that some people prefer to enjoy a drink whilst enjoying themselves. And there's no harm in that. Some people also feel more confident to enjoy themselves after a few drinks and can relax more. Preferring to drink booze isn't a negative thing as long as everyone behaves responsibly and doesn't harm anyone else.
I'd stay with the cat, but suggest the birthday person go with a friend and I'd send some cash. But can I say my brain would be 100% online and able to sort that out when horrified the cat might lose an eye?? Can't say. Edited to add: more than 15yr in veterinary emergnecy and critical care here- eye things like OP described are quite serious. Meds may be needed every 2hrs, and it may be that the OP was in fact staying up to do so. It can be hard to keep a cone on, and honestly understand and would be making the same choice (or taking my cat to work- but that is going to be SO expensive for non-employees.)
I wouldn’t leave my girl after that happened, it could be traumatic for her, she doesn’t know why she’s wearing a cone, just that she’s in pain and wants her mommy. I would think the boyfriend would be more understanding of not being able to send money, emergency medical care is expensive- that may be OP’s entire savings and most people don’t have pet insurance. I have pet insurance, but would be out of money for a few months waiting for them to pay me back.
I feel like one solution with the OP that wanted to stay with their sick cat and canceled reservations, maybe instead of canceling they could have had someone go in their place? Like, assuming the boyfriend has family or friends that they might also want to spend time with, and it seems like this restaurant and seasonal special were important to him, maybe the compromise could be he still goes but just with someone else. Canceling it without asking is an issue, but as someone with a cat that I love very much I also understand wanting to stay with your sick pet. I don't like always looking for the middle ground in situations because there often isn't one that actually leaves all parties happy, but I feel like this could have worked out far better for everyone compared to what happened.
I had to participate that ritual a bit ago. There wasnt any tacitful way i or anyone could decline. What made it even more irritating is that when it was thrown, the group of guys parted and the garter fell to the floor. Because it wanted to sit back down it pick it up and gave it to someone. Altogether a very old custom.
I don't think the cat issue is less about staying at home with the cat and more about the fact it's an expensive restaurant (OP mentioned having tighter financial constraints than her partner). I used to work in vet med, and ocular meds and possibly an enucleation is SUPER expensive.
Add to that it's an out of hours vet. At least in the UK if you see an emergency vet that you're not registered with you'll end up paying more than your registered, in hours vet.
Yeah, in Finland, too. We needed to take our dog in late one Wednesday evening, not even nighttime yet, and every price was +50%. Had we waited any longer into the night, it would have been double prices. It was worth it, though, he had a nasty UTI that needed meds asap. @@FishCakeSarnie
I think there is some truth to the fact that it is expensive but also i do think she seems to not like the boyfriend enough to try to to come up with a plan and it was more of an "excuse" to not need to spend time with him. The fact that she broke up reinforced me thinking she also didn't care that much to try to spend her money and time on him.
I like this even better with Jamie. I like the sometimes different opinions (and your banter is funny) and that it's about an hour instead of just a half hour.
For calling dibs on baby names: My dad & his younger brother both had the same favourite baby name for a girl. Both couples talked about it when my mum got pregnant, and my parents decided to let my uncle have 'dibs.' My parents had 2 daughters, 2 years apart, and respected the dibs both times. Then it was years before my aunt & uncle had their first child.... a boy! My parents were (jokingly) furious! Luckily, my youngest cousin is a girl so everyone's favourite baby name did eventually get used, nearly a decade after the dibs was originally called. I think what my parents did was generous and kind, but nobody would be an AH for doing differently. First come first serve makes sense with baby names because nobody can predict what their hypothetical future children will be, so when dibs is claimed and respected there is a very real possibility that nobody will get to use the desired name at all, which would be sad.
Same in my family. My mum and aunty liked the name Carolyn. Both pregnant at the same time. My parents called me Julia, my aunt had a boy. Second babies boys too, so no Carolyn.
I actually feel quite strongly about the cat one that she made the right call. Her cat might LOSE AN EYE and is in so much pain that it's not eating. Even if it doesn't _need_ her to stay, being with your loved one while they're suffering a lot is perfectly reasonable. I know that when I have a chronic pain flare-up, sometimes all I want is for someone to come and hang out with me and give me a hug.
About the cat story: my cat is 100% dependent upon me to give him a good life. He cannot eat without me feeding him, he cannot drink without me filling his water bowl, he would not have a clean place to live if I were not cleaning it. I brush him every day, keep him stimulated with play and puzzle toys, and give him love and cuddles when he demands them. I am everything to my cat. House cats are essentially children that will never grow into independent beings. My boyfriend, on the other hand, can take of care of himself. If my cat gets sick and I want to stay home with him because it makes me feel less anxious, then he'd better suck it up or leave the relationship. Also.... is his birthday dinner really more important to him than his girlfriend's mental distress? How could he think she could possibly enjoy herself at a dinner after this? Not to mention, she may need that money for an emergency vet procedure more than a stupid dinner that can easily be done any year in the future.
Agree! But to be fair, in normal circumstances I think ‘I wouldn’t enjoy myself’ is a shitty reason to cancel birthday plans. It’s about the birthday person, if you’re in a bad mood or something then…. Put on a happy face and don’t ruin someone else’s day lmao But this is a really serious situation so I think it’s 110% fair here.
I think if the reason was important to the person-"not enjoying themselves" that's a good reason to be honest and to NOT put on a smile and celebrate. I would not want a friend or a partner to force themselves into smiling if they don't enjoy themselves for whatever reason. @@leggyegg2890
@leggyegg2890 I mean to point out the fact that he would 100% have known how terrible she felt, and still wanted her to go. Is that not messed up to you? Would you in ANY situation want your SO to do something that would make them feel worse?
@@fantasystaplesuwu1554 I was agreeing with you! But yeah in a hypothetical situation where my SO was in a bad mood and didn’t feel like celebrating my bday but it wasn’t because of something serious, I’d expect them to celebrate with me, regardless of if it made them feel a bit worse. Of course there are exceptions and like I said, it’s different if it’s something serious. But it’s fine to expect things of your SO even if they don’t feel like it. I don’t think there’s NEVER a situation where you should expect your SO to put their own feelings aside and do something they don’t want to purely because it would make you happy.
@leggyegg2890 I guess I could just never imagine doing that to my partner, and I would hope my partner would never do that to me even if it is a small thing. Celebrations can always wait if my partner is feeling down.
Concerning story 1, I strongly support OP! Also what’s wrong with the sentiment about “if my boyfriend is allergic to cats I don’t have a boyfriend”? Like what’s the other option, give away the cat that you live with and love and who loves you back for a random man you just met? (Cause I assume if you’re getting close you have talked about different subjects including cats)
Yeah, I didn't really get what they were saying with that. Like, I'm sorry but my pet I've had for years is more important than any significant other that can't be around the animal at all. I could see a compromise, maybe, if you guys really wanna make it work where you keep the cat until it dies and in the meantime the SO takes allergy meds and you keep certain rooms "cat free". But if it's a "it's me or the cat" ultimatum? Uh, the cat, duh.
Yup! I am horrendously allergic to cats (no amount of medication can save me). If I find out someone I'm seeing has a cat, I know the relationship is going nowhere. I'm not asking a person to give up their pet and I am physically incompatible with a cat. Like, we could never live together while the cat was alive. I wouldn't even be able to spend the night at their place. I'd never be able to borrow their clothes without putting them through the wash first. And frankly, if someone offered to get rid of their cat so they could be with me, I would run a mile in the other direction. I do not want to be with someone who would do that
Shaaba said they're having to go through alternate solutions to conceive and I swear it took me a good two minutes to remember why they might be having issues with that
If there was a risk of my cat losing an eye I would definily staying with them. You can´t ever know if something will go wrong will you´re at the restaurant and I wouldn´t trust anyone else to care for my cats if they´re sick. Also, if OP had found someone to take care of the cat and an emergency happened and she had to leave dinner early, OP´s boyfriend would also be upset because she had ruined his birthday dinner And I can completely understand OP´s realization about caring more about the cat than about the boyfriend. My older cat have been with me for over 10 years, been my emotional support on some of the hardest moments of my life... She is part of my family! She will always be on top of my priority list with my close family
For the baby name story - I don't see why there can't be two people in the family with the same name. Considering the younger sister still may or may not have a baby in the future, it could be a few years apart and could even be nice that the kids have that in common with each other. The only way a name is a big deal to me where I would absolutely change it is if someone was caused intense trauma by someone with that name. Without that kind of context, it really shouldn't be that big of a deal.
I’m with you. Who cares if cousins or whoever have the same name? (Keep in mind my name is Jennifer, so I am used to someone else having my name NO MATTER WHERE I GO!)
I don't think the bouquet toss tradition is about ownership, but for me it still feels reminiscent of misogynistic origins in that it reminds me of the concept of women's perceived value being derived from their likelihood of getting married soon and not ending up as an "old maid". It just makes me think "oh, Sylvia, why don't you catch the bouquet so you can find yourself a nice husband already. You don't want to die alone, do you." I'm not saying a bouquet toss is inherently anti-feminist, but the superstition around it holds some uncomfortable baggage for a lot of people.
I feel you. I still want it at my wedding, but I would let everyone participate (male and non-binary friends as well). Maybe me and my future wife could toss them together. Would that mean the two who catches them are getting married?
I've been in the position of being uncomfortably made to partake in a bouquet toss, and to me, the problem lies in the fact that JUST women take part in it (implying that a woman's destiny is to get married when a man's isn't)
Exactly! I was looking for this comment! I was very surprised to see then wonder what is sexist about this tradition when it only depicts single women "fighting" to get married while men envision marriage as "ball and chain"
The tradition wasn't always for this reason, but the garter toss is the same thing. Single men do it and are the next to be married so I don't think your point in parentheses is necessarily correct. You just don't see them at weddings much anymore. I've seen plenty of wedding videos of men desperate to get the garter so I don't think it's totally one sided where it's implied that the women are desperate to get married and the men aren't. I agree with you for the origins of the tradition because the garter toss used to be for luck and not the next to be married, but for about 100 years that hasn't been the case. It might have sexist origins but I think it's in good fun now.
@@megancurtis9502 Well in this wedding they clearly had solely the bouquet toss and not the garter toss, so her point IS valid and it IS sexist because clearly they only find it important to signal to the single women that they should strive to get married, not the men. And even if it would be done for both genders pushing somebody into it or demanding they take part is never ok and also pretty ridiculous. "It`s really important for me that you strive to get married next by jumping for this bouquet." What? Are you afraid your marriage will be miserable and want company, or what`s the point here?
@@anthill1510 I totally agree that forcing people to partake is really weird. I just don’t believe that having the tradition at a wedding is inherently sexist. I also don’t think there’s any evidence that these people didn’t have a garter toss. People who don’t do a garter toss don’t leave it out because they don’t want to pressure single men to get married and they do want the women to, they leave it out because it’s really weird in this century to throw a woman’s undergarment to single men. Maybe someday they’ll start throwing boutonnières or just do away with the tradition altogether. In the meantime I don’t think it’s necessarily holding up sexist stereotypes to do it at a wedding just for fun
So you tell all single women to gather because you want them to try to catch and in some cases fight for a bouquet that determines who is getting married next. You put the single women on display. You imply it`s really important who get`s married next and it`s very desirable to get married at all and preferably soon. You only do this for the women, not the men. That`s sexist. You treat the women differently than the man in something like striving for marriage that is available for both and involves both sexes and should be important or unimportant to both sexes in the same way. That`s the defintion of sexism. Also for a woman putting the emphasize on her striving for marriage means you are telling her what is really important in her life is to be tied to a man, you don`t tell the man that it`s defining for him to be tied to a woman. I don`t know how to explain to you that this is sexist if you don`t understand it now. I am happy the tradition of the gater toss doesn`t exist any more because it is it`s own kind of terrible. I don`t care if brides throw their bouquet. I don`t think all people who do that are terrible sexists. Most people don`t think much about what traditions mean, most people don`t think much about anything in their life. But when you are having a discussion about what it means and why somebody might decide not to take part in it and you say "It`s not a sexist tradition", that`s ridiculous.
I would stay with the cat. It probably needed eye drops regularly to attempt to save the eye, and if it's not eating that's actually a very big deal in cats. Even taking an animal to the emergency vet is just stressful? I honestly feel like I would immediately opt out of a relationship where I was shit on for taking care of my pet.
The cat was in enough danger that leaving it alone would be irresponsible - if the eye issue developed in a day and the emergency vet said they could lose the eye, who knows what would happen over the next few hours. OP needed to be home and ready to take action to get their cat follow up care if needed. If OP canceled the reservation without asking that would stink, but would probably just be an accident - not realizing the boyfriend might want to go on his own or with a friend. But the boyfriend is an asshole for showing no empathy for OP’s concerns and calling them selfish.
I think a lot of people not on OP’s side just don’t know much about cats and their health, which is fine, but that’s probably why people are being goofy. When a cat stops eating, it’s very very serious and they need to be monitored closely. If OP went to the dinner, the cat very well could’ve been dead (or dying) by the time they got home. It’s not a definite and it’s more likely the cat would be okay, but it’s not far fetched at all and not a risk anyone should take.
A lot of people seem to forget, that pets are part of the family. Would the bf been mad, when it was op's parent that had an emergency and needed help / supervision? Heck, if something happened to my now husbands dog, when we were dating, I would have offered to come by, so he doesn't have to be alone in his worry.
exactly! cats health sometimes deteriorates really fast. what if they came home and the cat was dead or dying? idk about OP but if that happened to me i’d be SO PISSED at the person who made me leave my pets side when they needed me most.
Baby name story: Like a fairy, I've called dibs on so many names while growing up while also never wanted a kid in the first place. When my sister got preggy, I gave them all the her and her son has one of the names I once claimed. And I love it, I'm happy I got to be a part of brainstorming names. Wedding story: I think the maid of honor is the biggest drama. She saw OP wanting to sneak away, knew about OP's prefernence about participating and decided to make a big deal out of it. The bride wouldn't have noticed if the moh didn't trash talk OP about it. Cat story: I don't care if the cat needs supervision about the eye it self or not. When you have a pet you are responsible for the physical AND mental wellfare of the pet. A trip to the vet and having stuff done can also affect their mental health. Also, the pain medication and if the cat was put under for the visit it could have side effects. I would NEVER leave my dog to go out to dinner, and none of my partners would call me asshole for it. My dog is also very anxious, so I wouldn't want him to be alone or with someone else. The pet also cannot verbally communicate their needs like a human can. Going out to dinner is a leizure, the cat is a living being whom the owner is responisble for - there's no comparison. I think boyfriend is being very entitled about the exclusivity of the restautant. Sure, there is probably some communication lacking here, I mean none of my partners would be surprised becasue we had discussions about this kinds of priorities. So OP and future partner needs to talk about their expectations in their relationship.
Cat story: A little ESH. I would stay with my cat. No question. Unless, maybe, I could get the vet to tell me it was safe. I might not be great company though. I would not cancel reservations though. I would encourage them to take a friend or someone else though. He sucks because of his reaction. Being disappointed is one thing, but the way he lashed out at her. At the very least he doesn't understand how she feels, but at worst if this is how he treats her whenever he gets mad he is a jerk. Either way I understand the breakup. Bouquet toss: NTA I feel like it was her trying to be discreet. Personally in every wedding i have never been too the bouquet toss is not a 100% participation event. Usually it is a bit chaotic and some watched, some didn't. I grew up in religious circles. These people are just being wild. I feel like they only care because they don't like her politics. If anyone else had really gone to the bathroom they probably wouldn't care. They feel judged, but only because they are projecting.
Won't let me edit again so... Name game: I agree with the NTA, but a conversation is important. It is important to try and handle it the best you can for your own peace of mind. I agree with the principle of not claiming a name, but that doesn't mean that if you learn someone close to you wants a name and you decide you want it you can still be an AH for using it. Basic you can be legally or technically correct, but still be an AH.
Why would the bride want ok to catch the flowers anyway? The flower toss is for single women who tries to catch said flowers in hopes of being the next to marry. OP doesn't want to marry.
Ooooh that last one reminded me of a post going around on tumblr that explains just how important and intense naming norms and Naming Dibs are in Mormon culture, so my suspicion here is that OP might be LDS. (Meanwhile, I'm Serbian-American and about half the boys in my generation are named Nikola. All my parents' college friends just... did that. No dibs! Some are ten years apart! Everyone just went 'yeah, okay, Nikola it is.')
This comment reminds me of the scene in My Big Fat Wedding where Toula is introducing Ian to all her cousins and everyone, male or female is named some variation of Nick.
Ex-Mormon here; I’ve never really heard of naming dibs being a Mormon thing. Maybe it’s a Utah Mormon thing (Utah Mormons have a bunch of strange culture things that most other Mormons don’t have), but the only things I’ve heard about/experienced with names is funny spellings or naming kids after prophets or Book of Mormon characters (Tiancum, Brigham, and Nephi are the ones I’ve seen personally). Definitely possible-Mormons can have some really intense things and I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a thing for some Mormons somewhere-but idk if I’d necessarily pin OP as LDS based on the information we have.
@@justtired2050 yep! Unfortunately, I can't add links on YT comments, but if you Google "earlgraytay Utah baby names" you can find the post. The post itself is pretty long, but here's one paragraph: Mormon women start picking out names for their hypothetical future kids in fourth or fifth grade and snipe at each other for picking “weird” or “bad” ones. it’s something that’s supposed to be in the back of your head long before you have a kid. and because people will judge you if you pick a name that’s “too boring” or “too weird”, it is already an intricate dance of finding something that’s “interesting” enough to pass muster but not so “interesting” your kid won’t survive kindergarten.
As to the bouquet thing. You don't have to actively judge people for them to feel judged. People often make assumptions and this can be worse in groups of people. You know how you feel and think but everyone else just guesses based on your actions and their own notions/experiences. I think the drama in this friend group might be deeper than just a bouquet toss.
I've been in the situation of not wanting to be part of the bouquet throwing thing. I was with my ex for 20yrs & for feminist reasons I refused to get married. In those 20yrs we went to loads of weddings & once we had made our commitment to each other I didn't take part in bouquet tossing. I got loads of pressure & every time I responded "It's for single women, I'm not single". It didn't always satisfy people tho....
Totally on Jamie’s side with the bouquet toss - it is SO awkward, I’ve always hated it - there would be a couple single female adults and 4 children and I hate that attention and there’s so much pressure to do it. It also would highlight my singleness on top of the constant questions about it outside the wedding (even at my younger brother’s engagement dinner a family member said in front of everyone that I better hurry up and find someone and not let my younger brother be married first). With the bouquet toss, in my experience, there’s no just saying “no, I don’t want to participate.” People have always pushed and pushed and pushed. I don’t think I’ve went to the washroom to avoid it before, but I’ve absolutely went to the bathroom to avoid other things that made me feel very uncomfortable and anxious that didn’t actually require my presence. When I got married myself I didn’t do it. My (fake) bouquet is sitting on the top of our bookshelf 5 years later. We skipped the taking the thing off the bride’s leg too. I tried ti skip the bride dancing with all the men thing but the dj and guests “forced” that on me.
@@WelcomeApathy yeah, where I live they play some song that goes “I knew the bride when she used to rock and roll” and then you have to dance with all your uncles and cousins and cousins in law and I hate it and didn’t want to do it but our DJ wanted to do all the traditions more than listen to the bride and groom paying him. I forget what song they played next but it was for the groom to dance with the women. It’s just not my thing to have eyes on me like that.
On the one hand I am sorry that happened to you, on the other hand I wonder what you let go on in your life that people around you think they can push you around on your own wedding day and are successful in that. (And what about your husband helping you out of this?) There is no way my friends or family would do that because they know that trying to push me into anything just doesn`t fly. And my family are not all kind people, they just learned that I will stand up for myself very firmly even if it would cause a scene at my own wedding. I mean YOU hired and paid the DJ or at least he was hired for your wishes? A clear, angry word with him from you or your husband would have stopped this, don`t you think? Your wedding is over but there is no way you let yourself be pushed around like this in your own wedding and it`s not happening all the time in the rest of your life. It`s not just these people not respecting your wishes. It`s also you not standing up for yourself.
@@anthill1510 bit of a stretch from one boomer dj playing a song and making an announcement without us knowing he would do it to a statement about my whole life. Extended family I see twice a year who are used to this at every wedding wouldn’t know how I feel about this stuff.
I picked my daughter’s name when I was a literal child, but it had special meaning in regard to a tradition with my father. Years later, my sister was pregnant with her third daughter & really wanted to use the name for her girl, but she remembered that I always wanted that name for my daughter. I’m almost 9 years younger than my sister so I hadn’t yet had any children. She never discussed it with me, but she also didn’t use the name out of respect for me. A year later I had my daughter & gave her the name. She then told me how she wanted to use it, but didn’t because she knew how important it was to me. I would’ve been pretty crushed if she had used the name, & I appreciate my sister so much for keeping me in consideration ❤️
For the red flag/green flag: my gut says red flag because at my best friend's wedding, her sister-in-law hiked up her dress and peed on the steps outside the venue because she was so drunk and couldn't be bothered to find an available bathroom. I laugh about it even 8 years later.
See it's just SUCH a bad idea!! Especially if it's someone close to you, because SO MANY friends/ family members are there to witness your embarrassment
At my friend's wedding another friend of theirs came up to me and got like half way through a sentence before throwing up on the ground 😅😫 she then looked at me and went "sshh, don't tell anyone" 😆 thankfully the wedding was in a field, definitely could have been worse...
If OP in the first one cancelled the *reservations* that would be a big no. But if she just cancelled with the bf, he could potentially bring someone else to the restaurant instead. But there is a potential alternative in which someone trusted could look after the cat for you. I have a couple friends i could trust to look over my babies for me. I would not be willing to leave the cat alone in the house when i don't have to. I DEFINITELY would not be getting drunk while my cat was unwell. Bf can go out and get wrecked if he wants, he's an adult, but i would not be joining him. He can have one of the boys go out with him. My kitty needs their mama. (Also. I would for sure break up with a boyfriend if he doesn't care about my cats, or didn't like cats in general. I will prioritize my family over a paramour.)
I picked my favorite baby name when I was about 10/11 years old. Another decade later and that was the name I gave my daughter 😉 Not disagreeing with the spirit of what you’re saying though, lol
The bouquet story: it's so weird that they'd care that much about who took part of the bouquet catching (I think I skipped out on it at least a couple times and no one cared). UNLESS.... these friends aren't actually okay with her plan to never marry, and was hoping to use the bouquet toss as a way to pressure her to actually tie the knot.
My cat had an ulcer in her eye, she had to have eye drops every 4 hours, even through the night (lots of alarms needed!) It went on for 3 months, and unfortunately she did end up having to have the eye removed. I can see if it's just happened you'd be very worried, and if they did need drops that often and through the night I would not feel in the mood to go out and get drunk anymore. However I agree, she called to just cancel, no discussion and no other options explored it sounded like
Re: the cat - a cat should NEVER be left alone for long periods if they’re sick enough that they stopped eating. They need very close monitoring so that if they stop drinking, using the litter box, aren’t moving around much, are vomiting etc they can get emergency care. Cats often hide any illness or pain, when it gets to the stage that they’re not eating or are doing any of the things I listed, it’s really really serious. All of that aside, the anxiety of leaving them alone would be a valid reason. I agree that for something as important as a birthday, it’s super shitty to cancel just because you had a bad day or are tired or something. But when your cat is so ill they could lose an eye, I think that’s a good enough reason. I can see why the bf would be disappointed, but if my partner couldn’t understand why I needed to be home with my cat in that situation and was MAD at me for it I’d probably be ending the relationship. If it were my partners cat, I would’ve cancelled the dinner myself and stayed home to look after them together.
I agree with jamie on the bouquet toss. Ive never seen it as a big part of the wedding that everyone has to gather around to watch and play. Its always been a more of a, 'this is happening now, if you want to participate do so, if not, feel free to watch or wander off." Whoever is there, wants to play, whoever isnt, doesnt.
Every wedding I've ever been to, participation in the boutique toss was 100% optional. Period. Because it's not the most important moment it's just a fun little tradition that people can part take in if they WANT to. That was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. How on earth is that a political statement?!?! Unless the bride expected OP to stand up on a table and shout about the patriarchy, then the bride's reaction was uncalled for
I think it may be mandatory depending on the location/culture. I've been at several weddings were ALL unmarried women and girls older than about 10 were supposed to participate in the bouquet toss. At one wedding, most of the girls stepped AWAY from the falling bouquet (which, it seems to me, is more embarrassing to have happen, than having some 'eligible' friends leave the room).
There was a small crowd of maybe 10 young unmarried women at my Best Friends wedding (I was MOH). We were all jokingly jostling eachother and warming up to catch, the bride threw the bouquet and EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of us took this unrehearsed, simultaneous step backward. The bouquet landed on the ground. The bride turned round. And the 11 of us awkwardly stared at the bouquet. 😅 I respect the OP politely opting out instead 😂
Re: baby names - I can get where the sister is upset, but honestly? My tastes changed so much between when I was a teen and when I had kids. Little October (Tobi for short!), Autumn, Grayson, Bennett were not to be. I had Olivia on my shortlist when my sister was pregnant, and that was their girl's name (turned out to be a boy), and I was bummed, but I'd have given it up because I don't think you get to really claim names. I also don't think it's the worst thing if cousins have the same names. It can be annoying, but most kids get family nicknames anyway, so whatever, imo. Unless this name is a super special name for personal reasons, I think everyone gets to pick the name they like and the one having a baby gets to pick first.
I completely agree! Names are names. Let people do what they want. My friend's father is Mike and she married a Mike (Jr.), so her FIL is also a Mike. But they deal with it because they have to. I have other friends in similar situations. I think people should be able to do what they wish. ❤️
The religious tradition comparison to the bouquet toss is a good way of thinking about it. Someone can respectfully decline to participate in a religious prayer without being a drama. The drama is clearly from those wanting to force someone to participate in a tradition they are uncomfortable with.
Eye infections can be deadly and like I'd rather cancel a birthday than come home and my cat is dead, but I definitely don't agree with how she did it.
What cracks me up about the baby names analogy, with all the siblings wanting to call their babies Mary, is that exact thing happened with my grandmother. She was born around the same time as several of her cousins, and all of them ended up being named Marianne. My grandma ended up being called Sally until the day she died, despite her legal name being Marianne.
When I heard the first AITA in this episode, all I could think about was the situation I was in with my ex. She was allergic to cats, but knew I had a cat prior to moving in with me. She tried getting treatment for her allergies, but eventually told me that her allergies were too bad, and I had to give away my cat or she'd move out. I chose to give him up, not wanting her to suffer every time she was in the house. She broke up with me months later over another ultimatum, and I've regretted giving him up and have missed him every day. I love you Spooky, wherever you are 😢
i completely agree. im so sorry for your loss💔 i lost my dog a couple of years ago, so i've had a lot of time to think about it. i try to remember that while we couldn't lengthen their lives, we loved and cared for them while they were here with us as best as we could. i think our pets are grateful for that alone 💜💜
It's so funny your example was skipping graduation cuz I skipped both middle school and college graduation ceremonies because I hate pomp and circumstance. I'm AuDHD and it's a nightmare to sit through with no payoff.
I got to say about the cat; I have cancelled a whole weekend of volunteering work where Iwas gonna be away and had planned on friends coming to look after my cat cause he got sick. I was at the vet a couple days before said weekend and I just couldn't face leaving him alone. I wouldn't have been focussed on the work, I would have been distracted and if he got worse and I wasn't there to take him to the vet and care for him I would never have forgived myself. Luckily my organisation is wonderful and they were very understanding and asked about my cat afterwards. If a boyfriend wouldn't understand cancelling a weekend away because of this, I would have dumped him. No questions. So the restaurant thing.. yeah I get it. By the sounds of it the cat was in serious trouble and vets will ask you to stay with them in those moments.
NTA for the cat story. If there was a chance my cat could lose their eye then I'm staying home. I would never be able to forgive myself if it got worse while I was gone. I don't think there was a conversation to be had. Like it's a living creature under your care. Even if you don't view your cat as family you at least need to view it as a living creature under your care and you need to take that seriously. Same as any other dependant in your care. Also the boyfriend was a complete jerk given the severity of the situation with the cat.
The biggest issue was her just cancelling without offering to let him take the reservation so he and a friend could go out. I agree 100% she should have stayed home, but maybe he wanted to still go.
You guys are definitely not the drama 😂 going so thoughtfully and thoroughly through the cat story really gave a sense of closure, even before the edit! I’m loving the podcast ❤ Also that moment when Shaaba gave Jamie a brownie badge 🥹 Adorable badges for both of y’all!
The cat story I feel deep in my soul. Last year on my husbands birthday our cat got hit by a car. We had to rush him to the vets for multiple Surgeries. We went out to his planned birthday meal later that day and we were MISERABLE the whole time. It wasn't worth going. (Our cat is fine now).
First off, I love having both of you on the show, and I love seeing you work through your thoughts together 💕 Also, I think the bouquet toss and the drinking issue are soo similar in that there are certain things that people feel judged about whenever it goes against the norm. Because even when you are chill about it, others feel like you are attacking their values or calling them morally wrong. As someone who doesn't drink I feel a lot of kinship with chill vegans. Even when you give a polite 'no thank you ' and never bring it up otherwise, some people act like you have stabbed them through the heart. Obviously this isn't how most people act, and of course there are vegans/non-drinkers/feminists who are judgy, but it's so interesting how the smallest disagreement bothers some.
35:46 I’ve heard of this too. I feel like there’s more to it? Like, the groom removes the garter, possibly with his teeth, and then tosses it to the men after and then whichever dude catches it is next to get married?
The bouquet toss OP was definitely under more pressure than she expressed in her description. I've got a cousin like that MOH, and every time there's a wedding she browbeats me into getting involved with the bouquet toss. I have learnt to just give in, wander over slowly, and deliberately stand further away than the bride can throw. I don't judge anyone who likes bouquet tossing, I just believe everyone should have the right to choose what they are involved with there. I'm not planning to get married, so I don't want to be involved, and that decision should be respected. Same for OP. 👍
The cat story: if the answer is "yes, I need to stay with the cat," then offer your seat to one of the spouse's friends! "Sorry babe, I need to stay home, but take one of your friends and have a good time. Stay safe" The wedding story: the bouquet toss actually has the least sexist background than other wedding traditions. But I think the bride wanted to do something that has been more common in modern weddings. Instead of tossing the bouquet, the bride rushes a participant and hands them the bouquet. The story strongly sounds like the bride was planning that and OP shut it down by going potty
“What happens if everyone names their daughter Mary?” Laughs in South American family where every single girl’s first name is Maria. Moms, sisters, cousins, the works!
for the cat one: all i can think of is how horrible id feel if i left one of my pets when they were sick/injured. i don’t think i’d be able to focus on anything else id just be worried about them, even if they had someone watching them i’d still be checking in every few minutes or just be worrying in general. i can’t help but think what if something goes wrong? what if they really need me and i’m not there? what if their condition gets worse because i couldn’t be there for them? it’s all fun and games til you come home to a dead pet. it happened to me. i can’t imagine how much more upset i would have felt if i knew i could have avoided leaving and maybe could have helped them. i would’ve been especially upset/angry if my partner had made me leave their side. idk if i’d be able to stay w that person and not see them as part of the reason my pet died without me trying to help or at least being by their side. i fully know i’m catastrophising the whole situation, but it does happen that pets health can decrease REALLY fast, so it’s important *to me* to be there to notice changes in behaviour and help if possible. and i’d just be so torn up if my pet died alone just because my partner wanted to go out and get drunk. plus like,,, i get wanting to celebrate your birthday on your birthday, but you CAN do it another day. my family almost never celebrates ppls birthdays on the actual day because of work/school/etc, so we usually celebrate on the weekend instead. i low-key think the bf is an asshole for calling OP selfish and a massive asshole for just taking care of her cat. i get it can hurt for someone to cancel plans (esp on your birthday and at your favourite restaurant) but they could’ve tried to figure out a way to make it work (takeout, having him go alone/with a friend instead, etc)
Shaba is 100% correct about the garter removal for the toss at a wedding. lol. I can't remember who caught my bouquet or the garter either and I definitely don't know who participated and who didn't
First story: As a fellow introvert like Jamie, i fullly agree with him. I tend to take off when i know for a fact that i will be pressured to do something i am very uncomfortable with or dont agree with. But that is after i have explained myself at least once and dont care to explain yet again. And, that was very mature of you Shaba that you came to your conclusion and shared it, that having Jamie there as a different perspective, sometimes helps you make your decisions.
My roommate would spend the whole dinner in a panic about her dog. But getting someone to watch the cat while sending frequent "cat's ok" messages if it means she actually tries going on a date for once (ok talking about the roommate again)
What shaaba said at around the 27 minute mark about jamie being a valuable part of considering different perspectives and evaluating your own is exactly why I love this show. So much of it is hearing things in a context or a way that I would have never considered otherwise. Being able to hear from other people is awesome and I love it so much! keep it going!
I would not leave my cat. I also am not staying with a man who calls me an ahole. My cat passed away.. And I will tell you I in no way regret canceling appointment &/or dates to be with her in her time of need. If people especially a boyfriend doesn't understand- goodbye!
For the record, I LOVE your “Am I the Drama” episodes because I love seeing you guys interact. You have such a wonderful dynamic to you and I think you’re such a sweet couple!!! ❤
For the bouquet toss one I understand tbh and I think not the drama. I’ve been pulled to do the bouquet toss and just act like I’m participating. One time I was pregnant and they tried to get me to do it and I said I already have to much to worry about getting married.
![[FREE] Lil Yatchy x kid laroi type beat "find your wings"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0aAFLUqWg8Q/mqdefault.jpg)
![Quando Rondo - Grow Up [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8zFnCg3BO4Q/mqdefault.jpg)
Funny story with baby names : some time ago, I said that if I ever had a daughter, I'd like to name her Alice. My little brother said "oh, me too!". I think the consensus was "well, whoever gets there first gets the name!".
But, surprise surprise! I then discovered I'm trans, came out, and now it's MY name, haha!
I love that story
nothing better than winning over a sibling haha
Power move
Aww! I love that for you! 💜 Congratulations on the discovery!
yeeeesss!!! I love it
By the time my friend got married, most of her friends were either married or didn't want to get married. So she did a plush cat toss to those who were willing. If you caught it, you were encouraged to adopt a kitty. It was explained ahead of time and she has so many cat lovers in her friends and family.
That’s adorable!
The ONLY acceptable toss at a wedding!
In the USA, they *ABSOLUTELY* drag you into the crowd of single women for the bouquet toss.
The way the bride and maid of honor called her after and said she tarnished the wedding makes me think they were going to aim it at OP. I might be ascribing worse motives, but the way they were bringing up her politics and fixating on it makes me suspicious.
At American weddings is is VERY common to be pressured or even forced to participate in the bouquet toss by other wedding guests or the bridal party. I'm a single woman who isn't particularly interested in getting married and I have tried to quietly stand in the back at several weddings while this tradition was happening. At all but one, I was physically pushed out onto the floor by other wedding guests (which puts me in the spotlight uncomfortably). Attempting to slip quietly off to the bathroom seems very reasonable. Its a super weird exception to the normal rules of personal space.
Right, I was literally pressured into doing this even when I was 11 years old 💀 They didn’t give me an option. And then the grown ass women next to me would push and shove each other while I was in the middle & had no chance of catching it anyway.
Yes! It's a very high-pressure tradition in the States. Ugh 😒
From what I've seen EVERY element is a much bigger deal in america. The whole concept of a 'rehearsal dinner' has only really started to be a thing here in the UK the last couple of years but seems to be a massive thing in america, the "daddy daughter dance" is something I've never even heard of in a UK wedding (like maybe the bride might dance with her dad if they both want but we don't really have a whole formalised part of the reception for it), I've only ever seen or heard of the garter thing on TV though maybe it used to be more of a thing idk, the whole gift registry thing tends to be like an amazon wish list at best and not something you sign up with a store for and everyone is expected to buy something off it, and while I'm more than sure that there are wedding planners in the UK, I've never known a single wedding that used one.
Like, weddings are still a big deal and thousands of pounds are still spent on them, and there's still tons of drama and loads of traditions associated, but amercan weddings kinda make ours look like a regular party with a formal dress code.
Yep. I’ve been FORCED into a bouquet toss before and it isn’t even about not wanting to get married, I’m just super uncomfortable being out in the spotlight and I usually wind up standing there awkwardly and avoiding even trying to catch it which frankly I’d say is more rude than just slipping away quietly 😅
As a never-married person, I LOATHE the bouquet toss! That said, I once went to a wedding where the bride called a (single) bridesmaid to the front & center and had a whole speech prepared where she presented her with the bouquet. It was SO cringey!
I got the idea of the first one that she just cancelled their reservations without asking first. If it was that kind of a restaurant, where you need to book three months in advance, she could have at least asked, if the boyfriend wanted to go with someone else.
Me too. Also, why did she start the story with a completely unrelated statement about money? Seems to me like she wanted an excuse to not have to pay for an expensive dinner and what sounds like a lot of drinks.
Its also odd how he also didnt tell her he was taking time off work which is something significant for the partner to know. Sounds like communication on both parts where lacking and respect/curtesy not given
That’s exactly what I thought. Let him go out with a friend.
I was going to say this, too. If the bf was upset because he wouldn't be able to get his favorite seasonal, she could have offered to pay for his meal and have him go with a friend. Then, also take him out at a later date. That's probably what I would have done.
@@CoreenMontagnaThat might be part of it but I read it more as "I can't afford to treat my boyfriend like this often. So it's reserved for a special occasion" and that rarity makes the cancellation more upsetting.
It could also be viewed transactionally: the bf did a big expensive celebration for OP and now wants something similar and/or OP feels bad about not giving back in the same fashion.
On the cat topic, I have a few notes.
OP states in comments that the dinner would be from 5PM (17 00) until the wee hours, so at least 7 hours away from the cat. She also stated she does not have friends or family in her life, just her boyfriend, so her boyfriend and cat would be her 2 most important beings. She was also keeping him updated on the events of that night, so it was likely not a cancelling at the restaurant, but cancelling her night out with him.
Also, shame on any comment thinking that leaving a cat alone with a cone on is a wise idea. I barely left my foundling alone (was checking on her during chores and she was asleep), only to suddenly hear a skitter and thud sound because she got stuck behind our water heater, and the cone was blocking her jumping and threatening her stitches. I've had a dog get stuck in a constant circle walk because he broke his cone against a table leg and it left him stuck. Had another cat ignore the fountain he could drink from for on he actually didn't really use and struggled to drink where he was inhaling water. Cones do not mean the animals can be unsupervised! It's still dangerous!
So my vet does medical daycare, it's 24/7 for cats and during the day time till 6 for dogs. If your pet is injured and needs supervision they can watch them for a reasonable fee. But I don't know how common that is and if other vets do it. That would really have been the only option I could think of
@@bboops23personally I'd only resort to that in very specific emergencies. Being at the vet stresses most pets out. 100% guarantee they'll be in a room with other pets being watched, maybe some recovering from procedures, so they're going to be more scared than if they were home. Additionally, they might wonder why you left them there 💔 The thought of leaving my lil floofs there to go have a long dinner, no, it's not an option imo.
But I do see where you're coming from... it does mean the pet is already at the vet in case the situation worsens. For what I know, the vets in our area don't do this though. 🤔
Thank you for your comment and examples. It's so important to spread awareness! I hope people also realize that when they're watching over an ill or recovering pet, they should not wear headphones... if you had, then you wouldn't have heard the skitter. Let's not linger on what would have happened then 😥
@@bboops23 I'm going to say that this is probably very uncommon. I've never heard of such a thing before, and I've owned cats most of my life.
@@SassyGirl822006 I'm a dog owner, I just know that my vet automated message mentions it a bunch
Not to mention, the whole idea of a bouquet toss is to see who will get married next. If it was a married person they wouldn’t be forced to participate because they obviously are not getting married next, so why would you make someone who explicitly doesn’t plan on getting married do it.
She would regret not staying with the cat if it winds up losing the eye.
I love that Jamie said "her or him or them" when talking about a cat!! Genderneutral cat is canon.
Lol it was probably just out of habit
Not sure there are non-binary cats.🐱
@@desperadox7565 well, technically cats have no gender at all... they have sexes but not gender as that's a human social construct so 😭
Cat cant talk so they dont have gender-identity but I ges they can be intersex.
There is an angel of a cat that hangs out at my apt complex and like... It's very fluffy and I am not going to hold it down to check the bits so said cat is just my sweet little gender neutral Pillow (they're super fluffy and soft like a pillow).
In other AITA on Shaaba's channel she often talks about how choosing to remove yourself from a situation you don't like is always your prerogative, so I was surprised that she was so against someone stepping out of a wedding for the bouquet toss? I mean, if it makes them uncomfortable and maybe its difficult to hide that feeling they should be allowed to leave. I feel like removing yourself from something or someone for peace of mind would almost never be the drama, because often the fact that others are so emotionally invested or pressed is the REASON you need to step away. I know the situation isn't that serious, but i think the principal she's used before when dealing with ultimatums or "you must do this thing" situations applies here.
Agreed. I attended a wedding for my mom’s bf’s sister and my mom’s bf’s brother (who was in his 40s and I was 13) *forced* me onto the dance floor to catch the flowers. He grabbed my wrist and yanked me there. Then he told me to shake my hips and grind while dancing (keep in mind, he was 40s and I was 13).
I would have ✨loved✨ to have left that wedding and that whole trashy family but I couldn’t because my mom refused. And now she’s married to that disgusting bf and is tied to that awful family 🤮🤮
Those people pleasing tendencies crowding in, they're hard to kick!
I'm thinking she doesn't think anyone is pressuring this OP to do the toss. I did agree with her that leaving does seem rude, the best thing you can do it to be there and watch. But if it were the case where the OP was to be put on the spot (besides everyone having to wait on her) and being forced to catch that bouquet, then she would probably think differently?? idk. But yes, she does have people pleasing tendencies. Probably stems from having an asian family lol which I can relate with that
@@tabathaalshalhoub1653 I'm so sorry you had to go through that experience.
I was really surprised with her response too. A speech requires attention and quiet. But a bouquet toss is just a rowdy game. It's not the same to step out for a toss as it is to step out during a speech.
On the first one - if it was the other way round I bet the boyfriend would expect her to cancel her cat's birthday plans to stay home and look after him with his eye cyst 😂
The bouquet toss implies that a single woman’s highest aspiration must be to get married. That’s the problem as I see it
Yeah, and the "when you get married" comments suggest they don't actually understand that she doesn't want to...and therefore wouldn't want to catch the bouquet, while someone who DID want to get married would have more fun doing that.
I've heard the toss comes from a time, where guests would try to ripp / cut off tiny pieces of the brides dress for good luck, so tossing the bouquet would give the married couple a quick way to exit.
So the whole thing is actually unnecessary now.
Exactly. It`s one of those many things where people go "But it`s such a nice tradition".
No. It`s a bullshit tradition from a time where woman were seen as cattle and it`s intention is quite clear even today. I will step to the side now, maybe a man can take my place and hustle to be the next one to marry?!
The wedding one reminded me of my aunts' wedding last year. There was a bouquet toss and my aunt asked me to take part in it. Thing is, they had just cut the cake and I desperately wanted that cake. So I declined to partake because CAKE. Nobody (I know of) judged me for declining to join the bouquet toss. I later apologized to my aunt just because I felt bad for declining, and she was like 'Nah, everything's good'. So it reaally doesn't have to be drama, the bride and those around her were simply AH.
I mean… CAKE. Worth it.
Cake is often worth it
Cake is way more important 😂
Cake FTW
Agree. They're the drama for making a mountain out of a mole hill. Anyone who doesn't know OP wouldn't have bat an eye if they didn't make a point to try to force her to join.
As a 12 year old I announced to everyone that I wanted to name my future daughter Brianna, I never changed my mind… I did however go into have 4 boys. And then my oldest son met a girl named Bri (Brianna) and even though they only dated for a week or so, she has been my “daughter that adopted me” for the last 10 years, and her 3 kids call me grandma! Sometimes things work out how they’re supposed to.
I’d argue that the fact that they messaged OP from the 2nd story that they were disappointed makes a better case for them going to the restroom. I’d argue that going back and forth with someone in the midst of a wedding is the opposite of polite. She was trying to politely excuse herself.
And it makes it clear they would have tried to force her to participate. If they were making such a fuss about it after, they absolutely would have tried to pressure her during it. She was likely trying to avoid that pressure. They were mad she didn't participate, not that she left the room. They would have been equally mad if she stayed and didn't take part.
It was not about the bouquet toss at all. They wanted her to succumb to their conservative values and make her stop being feminist. It`s about power and control. They can`t stand her being like that in general and just decided to tie this fight to the bouquet issue.
I have been in OP’s position… my friends who all know I don’t do flower tosses still would press me and I did finally resort to being out of the room then they happen….
I think the anti-feminism of a bouquet toss comes in with the idea that ALL single women are frothing at the mouth to get married. It doesn't matter what they say they want; society knows they really want to get married.
I'm not cool with throwing anything that costs as much as a bridal bouquet generally does. Mine were artificial flowers donated by a retired florist friend, and I treasure them still. This lady came out of retirement and gave me her time and labor, and I will always love her for that.
Although it was just subtext, I'm surprised that nobody brought up the cost of taking care of the cat. The restaurant was very expensive, and emergency vet care is super pricey as well. It could be over a thousand dollars to care for the cat, which is more than most fancy restaurants. OP went out of her way to point out that her (ex)boyfriend made more money than her. It's not just the time (even if it were, cat>bf bday dinner) but money as well.
!!! yes this is a very important factor
Great point!
I didn’t even think about this! One of my cats ended up with a corneal ulcer that triggered a herpes flair (literally all the tissues around his eyeball swelled up to the point he couldn’t retract the lids and you could barely see his eyeball. Over the course of several appointments, lots and lots of medications, special food to stimulate his appetite as it dropped out of pain (yes he got an buprenex at the worst phase of it, and and two courses of onsior to help reduce swelling so we could actually get eye drops to HIT his eyeball and not just the fleshy bits.)
We spent over a 1000, and we didn’t even do the last recommended recheck as we felt the stress of the visit (he was starting to get angry about all the medication handling, and he is a VERY stress sensitive cat) would trigger another flare of herpes. We continued the eyemeds and oral viral med until they ran out, or until his third eyelid was complete retractor and his eye looked more clear, and he was no longer squinting or swollen.
That's exactly where I thought the story was going. I was expecting her to say she cancelled it specifically because she couldn't afford it anymore. It's weird that she mentioned that otherwise.
Good point but I think she'd have mentioned that, she wants to make herself look like less of the arsehole, all of the OPs do. So I'm sure she'd have said it.
What about the boyfriend caring about his partner's wellbeing? His birthday dinner was more important that the well-being and mental health of his partner?
I read once where a cat passed out due to medication, and fell into their water bowl, then drowned. I don't think I could go out while my pet was sick and weakened - I get that things could happen at any moment, but the chance of injury goes up while your pet is unwell and being nearby could lessen the consequences.
The wedding one is ridiculous. OP was really respectful and the bride has some messed up priorities
My cat absolutely did NOT want to be alone after his emergency vet visit. He was doing okay and didn't need supervision for health reasons, but if I left him alone for even a minute, he would get extremely distressed and start loudly crying. Not all cats want to recuperate on their own. My little squish was practically glued to me for days after, bc he wasn't feeling well and wanted comfort. I think in the end, it depends very much on the cat, and only OP knows what her cat did or didn't need, which makes it hard to judge.
She shouldn't have canceled reservations, though. Her BF could maybe have gone with a friend or something and didn't have to miss out on the dinner.
In the first story, if it was me, and my cat was the one badly sick, I would just be worrying during the whole dinner, and be unable to enjoy myself.
I don’t get the sense boyfriend would be too pleased that he partner was stressing about the cat the whole night and not focussing on him and being happy and celebratory, so it was probably lose-lose.
@@268anita Yeah. I would probably be trying not to cry, but failing because I can't control my emotions very well at all. I love my pets SO much, and that would be completely devastating.
@@ambriasaunders1869YES!! ME TOO!! even just the thought of something bad happening to my dog makes me want to cry
For the cat health issue, my husband and I both agree that, whichever one of us had the birthday or event, the other person would stay with the cat. Every single time. The person staying behind would just get a friend to join Birthday or Event person.
So, realistically, we'd both cancel everything and stay with the cat. But if something really couldn't be cancelled, we'd find someone else to go out with the person needing to leave the house.
Cat would never be alone but the other person doesn't need to be alone either.
Warms my heart to hear that ^^) That's as it should be, imo. Good day to both of you and your pets/
i would say that if the cat was already on meds and had seen a vet you also could get a responsible friend or cat sitter to stay with the cat. The cat will likely mostly sleep if its on meds, it just needs someone there to monitor its condition to make sure its getting better not worse. The couple could go out just to dinner for a few hours and have friend/cat sitter stay with the cat and update via txt or phone call if something changed for the worse. Thats if it was something that was really important to one of them and that person really wanted to spend it with their partner , its a do-able solution so that they could both have that time together but also know that the cat is being watched over.
This is different from the posting though
@@ariannasantina I dunno about you, but if one of my pets had something serious going on like an affliction that may result in losing an eye, I would be sick to my stomach with worry. I would not want to go out anywhere, and certainly not to a fancy restaurant. I would'nt be good company either, not able to joke and laugh and tease like I usually do. I would've offered the possibility of bf going with someone else, but I absolutely would not be going.
@@animeartist888right? i feel like the best solution (imo) would be the bf coming over for a celebratory takeout meal, so they can be together on his birthday and celebrate and stuff while still being able to keep an eye on the cat. and then another night they could go out and celebrate if he still wants to. at least that’s what i’d do if i were the bf because i’d care a lot more about being with the person i love than going to some fancy restaurant.
even if the restaurant is the issue and he couldn’t get take out and they wouldn’t be able to get a reservation another time, he could go alone or with a friend and celebrate with her another time.
The cat story....
Definitely not the drama for staying with the cat and only kind of the drama for not communicating better. Sure, she could have asked if he wanted to take someone else in her place or whatever but I'm sure the stress she was under led her to not being as logical as we can all be from the outside looking in. Fur babies are family members and require the same level of commitment as having a kid. I can't blame her for putting this little creature that she has a responsibility for ahead of her partner. If I were in the boyfriend's place in this situation I'd want her to stay with her beloved pet. I'd want to go over there and keep her company and try to make her feel better. Sure, missing out on the seasonal special at a fancy restaurant sucks but the well being of a living creature is far more important food and drinks.
The cat was in pain, so it seems cruel to just leave them there alone. At the absolute minimum it's ESH. Complaining about seasonal specials instead of caring about OP's cat seems like a major AH move
right? if i were the bf i’d go over to her house with some takeout and try to cheer her up/celebrate my birthday a bit. i might also want to go out with her and have fully celebrate for my birthday on the weekend, but id def just want to be with her on my actual birthday. maybe it’s just cuz i don’t like fancy restaurants, but it’s much more important to me to be with the people/person i love on my birthday than at a stupid restaurant. id try to meet her half way so we can still spend time together on my birthday, while also being able to keep an eye on the cat if anything goes south.
plus i’d feel SO guilty if i made her go out and leave the cat alone if something bad did happen to the cat.
I've never disagreed with you guys on so many! lol. As a mostly closeted asexual 40 something female with almost 20 younger cousins, many of whom have had weddings, it is not at all an a-hole move to abstain and hide. I've even done it as a bridesmaid because I was not willing to be trotted out and pitied as the middle-aged singleton. Insisting and pressuring people to participate (which people have no problems doing, in my experience) is rude in the same way as asking someone when they're planning to start a family. Imagine if this was a baby shower where they had a "who's getting pregnant next?" tradition game and someone was quietly removing themselves. Would we be so quick to assume they're being rude, or would we think they might be made uncomfortable by the game and the discussions it inevitably brings up? You don't know why someone may not be planning or likely to either get married or have a baby and calling someone rude for not participating or absenting themselves is very presumptuous. And their reasoning was absolute bollocks.
The cat one is a no brainer that the boyfriend is TA. He may be disappointed, but she was obviously very upset, and the cat was very ill, and he called her a selfish and a mega asshole?! I'd tell any friend of mine to kick him to the curb. That is not a proportionate response to missing a birthday dinner when a pet is seriously ill.
NOBODY wanted to do the bouquet toss at my best friend's wedding. We all kinda reluctantly stood up there and then jumped back like my friend had tossed a hornet's nest instead of plastic flowers. I was pushed toward it and picked it up like, "Ugh, fiiine!" We have laughed about it ever since.
Sounds like a great group of friends!
I didn't even do it at my wedding.
The one with the bouquet toss, what I'm wondering is: If it was *that* important to the bride that her friend take part, even though her stance on it is well-known, why not have a chat about it beforehand? "Hey, OP, I know you don't normally take part in these things but it's one tradition I really love and would love for you to participate in, it's important to because here's why, would you consider doing it for me as a personal favor?" Which is not to say that OP would be obligated to do it even then, just that if OP's participation or not in that tradition was SO important to the bride, why is it only coming up after the fact?
Personally, if the cat was potentially going to lose an eye then I would be staying with the cat. If they needed to suddenly go to the vets then you need to be there. Also cats can really easily take off cones. But, I also don't really have anyone I trust to care for my cats if they are sick and I am busy.
A growth in the eye can, although of course very rare, pop when it's not completely expected. It's a condition that I would 100% be staying home for, even if there was someone that could watch them instead. Hope OP finds someone who cares about pets as much as they do.
As sad as this is, it does warm my heart a little to hear from more good pet owners :)
Even just the mental stress I think it's totally reasonable to want to switch things up. Like, if I had a sick pet you'd better belive we'd be watching over it because it would cause us anxiety otherwise. My boos (and I) are really great around respecting change of plans (we're all low energy sometimes so it's super nice to be like "I can't do this today" and have that be respected). So it's kind of baffling to me that a partner would be like "choose my birthday celebration over caring for your pet which isn't eating".
@@solsystem1342we do not know for sure that boyfriend dismissed the cat being sick though. We do not even know for sure that the boyfriend was aware of how seriously sick the cat was. The upset could also be about OP cancelling the reservation (at a place where it is hard to get a reservation) without even talking to boyfriend first. Or at least giving him the option to go with someone else. Or maybe boyfriend felt the energy of OP not caring about him as much (which the edit about breaking up confirm) and that was upsetting to him. Maybe other stuff had been going on and boyfriend’s upset was a result of other situations where he did not felt like OP cared.
I adore my cat and my partner and I are constantly giving each other updates about the cat (if she ate, if she is outside and might soon need to come in, if she looks unhappy,…) and I definitely would not want to go out if my cat where so sick, so I completely under OP on that point, but I also would be upset if my partner changes at last minute and without consulting me, plans that were hard to make and I was really looking forward to. I would very likely not call my boyfriend an a-hole about prioritising a pet, but we would need to have a discussion about communication and not cancelling important plans unilaterally.
OP with the cat was right imo. I get Jamie(and Shaaba) somewhat, it's nice for people when they can be laid back like that, but I'm a very worried pet owner myself. If one of the sweetems is feeling bad and wants to be comforted, there are many plans I'd cancel for that (and I'd want to have a partner who agrees).
In this case especially, a growth or swelling in the eye can unexpectedly become a serious emergency in a splitsecond. If that thing pops from the pressure slowly building, your cat needs immediate care! I'll refrain from elaborating what would happen, my mind gets very detailed and guilt trip-y about it.
I get the "you're not watching them 24/7 anyway" argument, but if I'm in the house the pet has the choice to be comforted by me AND I will hear them scream when it goes wrong (that's based on experience). I'd never be able to forgive myself if they die, all alone, while I'm out for something that could be cancelled.
Considering the risk there was here, if a partner thinks their dinner is worth the risk of coming home to a dead cat then they need to get in the bin. Though I understand that not everyone would understand the severity on their own accord, then again I expect that OP would explain that risk. If not, communication issue.
Yeah I think the ‘not watching them 24/7’ thing makes sense in a way but also, she WOULD have been watching her while they were at dinner. Watching her for any amount of time is better than no amount of time, it’s goofy to say if you can’t be doing it all the time why bother doing it at all.
Also, if my cat was so sick they weren’t eating I’d be setting alarms throughout the night so I could wake up and do checks.
I think a lot of people don’t know an awful lot about cats and aren’t understanding the severity of the situation - which is fine, it just means their opinions here are misinformed.
Also, there’s almost a 100% chance the cat already has a cone on, the vet would definitely have made sure of that and will have told OP to monitor her closely.
I think OP was completely in the right. I'm glad she broke up with the guy, who sounds like he has messed up priorities.
@@alex_blue5802 for sure. Getting upset that she cares about her cat more than him is so immature, why would you be more important than the being who relies on me for all of their needs??
@@leggyegg2890 Right?!?! I kept hoping someone would bring up the parallel of "what if this was OP's child instead of their cat?" and was surprised and rather upset by Shaaba and Jamie's opinion. This is a pretty serious illness, not just a little kitty cold. I wouldn't be able to go out at all much less eat with how literally sick I'd feel from worry. I would not be leaving that cat alone, and I'd probably be getting up to check on it all night, too.
@@animeartist888 I’m 100% sure shaaba and Jamie would have a different opinion if it were their cat, which is fair.
I get the feeling that none of their cats have been very sick in the past, which is fantastic and I hope that continues for as long as possible.
But I’m also sure that’s why their opinions came across as cold and misinformed. They obviously don’t really understand the situation so it would be unfair to judge them based on this.
Cat health is complicated and most people don’t get it until it’s happening to their loved one!
for me the other feminist thing about the bouquet is that it’s specific to the women and symbolizes the archaic idea that specifically women want and need to get married. that idea is based on (sometimes still very relevant) economic disadvantages women face compared to men, causing them to need marriage to survive
the closest men-centered concept in the wedding I can think of is the garter toss, which symbolizes good luck kinda too, but is actually based on the tradition of the couple, um, consummating the marriage where the garter proves the deed was done to the crowd
On the red flag green flag, I think if someone can’t have fun without drinking (and usually heavily at that) is a huge red flag.
I love alcohol, I love the history of alcohol, I love mixology/bartending culture, I even make my own mead. That said I 100% agree with you, I don't need alcohol to have fun, I'm more than fine going to a dry party/ event and when I do drink I read the room first and behave accordingly.
Is it a gingerly sip 1 drink kind of party? A Two drink, sober up by 1am, have a cup of coffee and safely drive home kind of party? Or a getting smashed and having a sleep over kind of party?
And if one can't behave themselves they shouldn't drink at all. I talk loud and fast drunk but my god am I still polite.
Also just to clarify, I'm not a high functioning alcoholic, just a social drinker.
I love alcohol, I love the history of alcohol, I love mixology/bartending culture, I even make my own mead. That said I 100% agree with you, I don't need alcohol to have fun, I'm more than fine going to a dry party/ event and when I do drink I read the room first and behave accordingly.
Is it a gingerly sip 1 drink kind of party? A Two drink, sober up by 1am, have a cup of coffee and safely drive home kind of party? Or a getting smashed and having a sleep over kind of party?
And if one can't behave themselves they shouldn't drink at all. I talk loud and fast drunk but my god am I still polite.
Also just to clarify, I'm not a high functioning alcoholic, just a social drinker.
It's very rarely that people CAN'T enjoy themselves without drinking, it's just that some people prefer to enjoy a drink whilst enjoying themselves. And there's no harm in that. Some people also feel more confident to enjoy themselves after a few drinks and can relax more. Preferring to drink booze isn't a negative thing as long as everyone behaves responsibly and doesn't harm anyone else.
I'd stay with the cat, but suggest the birthday person go with a friend and I'd send some cash. But can I say my brain would be 100% online and able to sort that out when horrified the cat might lose an eye?? Can't say.
Edited to add: more than 15yr in veterinary emergnecy and critical care here- eye things like OP described are quite serious. Meds may be needed every 2hrs, and it may be that the OP was in fact staying up to do so. It can be hard to keep a cone on, and honestly understand and would be making the same choice (or taking my cat to work- but that is going to be SO expensive for non-employees.)
I wouldn’t leave my girl after that happened, it could be traumatic for her, she doesn’t know why she’s wearing a cone, just that she’s in pain and wants her mommy.
I would think the boyfriend would be more understanding of not being able to send money, emergency medical care is expensive- that may be OP’s entire savings and most people don’t have pet insurance.
I have pet insurance, but would be out of money for a few months waiting for them to pay me back.
I feel like one solution with the OP that wanted to stay with their sick cat and canceled reservations, maybe instead of canceling they could have had someone go in their place? Like, assuming the boyfriend has family or friends that they might also want to spend time with, and it seems like this restaurant and seasonal special were important to him, maybe the compromise could be he still goes but just with someone else. Canceling it without asking is an issue, but as someone with a cat that I love very much I also understand wanting to stay with your sick pet. I don't like always looking for the middle ground in situations because there often isn't one that actually leaves all parties happy, but I feel like this could have worked out far better for everyone compared to what happened.
Yeah it’s hard to tell from the post if by cancelled she means she cancelled their plans with him, or she cancelled the reservation
The garter toss is basically the male equivalent of the bouquet toss, it’s tossed out into the crowd of single men
Removal via teeth optional. 😂
I had to participate that ritual a bit ago. There wasnt any tacitful way i or anyone could decline. What made it even more irritating is that when it was thrown, the group of guys parted and the garter fell to the floor. Because it wanted to sit back down it pick it up and gave it to someone. Altogether a very old custom.
And then the bouquet-catcher and the garter-catcher are often then photographed and jokingly treated as a couple. Embarrassing for everyone.
Yes, the groom removes garter with teeth & then tosses to the "guys" waiting behind. Like a bouquet toss.
It's a bizarre tradition, I agree.
😂😂
Yes, the groom removes garter with teeth
that tradition is ... something:D:D
Honestly, when you think about it, weddings in general are bizarre.
I don't think the cat issue is less about staying at home with the cat and more about the fact it's an expensive restaurant (OP mentioned having tighter financial constraints than her partner). I used to work in vet med, and ocular meds and possibly an enucleation is SUPER expensive.
Add to that it's an out of hours vet. At least in the UK if you see an emergency vet that you're not registered with you'll end up paying more than your registered, in hours vet.
Yeah, in Finland, too. We needed to take our dog in late one Wednesday evening, not even nighttime yet, and every price was +50%. Had we waited any longer into the night, it would have been double prices.
It was worth it, though, he had a nasty UTI that needed meds asap. @@FishCakeSarnie
I think there is some truth to the fact that it is expensive but also i do think she seems to not like the boyfriend enough to try to to come up with a plan and it was more of an "excuse" to not need to spend time with him. The fact that she broke up reinforced me thinking she also didn't care that much to try to spend her money and time on him.
I like this even better with Jamie. I like the sometimes different opinions (and your banter is funny) and that it's about an hour instead of just a half hour.
For calling dibs on baby names: My dad & his younger brother both had the same favourite baby name for a girl. Both couples talked about it when my mum got pregnant, and my parents decided to let my uncle have 'dibs.' My parents had 2 daughters, 2 years apart, and respected the dibs both times. Then it was years before my aunt & uncle had their first child.... a boy! My parents were (jokingly) furious! Luckily, my youngest cousin is a girl so everyone's favourite baby name did eventually get used, nearly a decade after the dibs was originally called. I think what my parents did was generous and kind, but nobody would be an AH for doing differently. First come first serve makes sense with baby names because nobody can predict what their hypothetical future children will be, so when dibs is claimed and respected there is a very real possibility that nobody will get to use the desired name at all, which would be sad.
Same in my family. My mum and aunty liked the name Carolyn. Both pregnant at the same time. My parents called me Julia, my aunt had a boy. Second babies boys too, so no Carolyn.
I actually feel quite strongly about the cat one that she made the right call. Her cat might LOSE AN EYE and is in so much pain that it's not eating. Even if it doesn't _need_ her to stay, being with your loved one while they're suffering a lot is perfectly reasonable. I know that when I have a chronic pain flare-up, sometimes all I want is for someone to come and hang out with me and give me a hug.
About the cat story: my cat is 100% dependent upon me to give him a good life. He cannot eat without me feeding him, he cannot drink without me filling his water bowl, he would not have a clean place to live if I were not cleaning it. I brush him every day, keep him stimulated with play and puzzle toys, and give him love and cuddles when he demands them. I am everything to my cat. House cats are essentially children that will never grow into independent beings. My boyfriend, on the other hand, can take of care of himself. If my cat gets sick and I want to stay home with him because it makes me feel less anxious, then he'd better suck it up or leave the relationship.
Also.... is his birthday dinner really more important to him than his girlfriend's mental distress? How could he think she could possibly enjoy herself at a dinner after this? Not to mention, she may need that money for an emergency vet procedure more than a stupid dinner that can easily be done any year in the future.
Agree! But to be fair, in normal circumstances I think ‘I wouldn’t enjoy myself’ is a shitty reason to cancel birthday plans. It’s about the birthday person, if you’re in a bad mood or something then…. Put on a happy face and don’t ruin someone else’s day lmao
But this is a really serious situation so I think it’s 110% fair here.
I think if the reason was important to the person-"not enjoying themselves" that's a good reason to be honest and to NOT put on a smile and celebrate. I would not want a friend or a partner to force themselves into smiling if they don't enjoy themselves for whatever reason. @@leggyegg2890
@leggyegg2890 I mean to point out the fact that he would 100% have known how terrible she felt, and still wanted her to go. Is that not messed up to you? Would you in ANY situation want your SO to do something that would make them feel worse?
@@fantasystaplesuwu1554 I was agreeing with you! But yeah in a hypothetical situation where my SO was in a bad mood and didn’t feel like celebrating my bday but it wasn’t because of something serious, I’d expect them to celebrate with me, regardless of if it made them feel a bit worse. Of course there are exceptions and like I said, it’s different if it’s something serious. But it’s fine to expect things of your SO even if they don’t feel like it. I don’t think there’s NEVER a situation where you should expect your SO to put their own feelings aside and do something they don’t want to purely because it would make you happy.
@leggyegg2890 I guess I could just never imagine doing that to my partner, and I would hope my partner would never do that to me even if it is a small thing. Celebrations can always wait if my partner is feeling down.
Concerning story 1, I strongly support OP!
Also what’s wrong with the sentiment about “if my boyfriend is allergic to cats I don’t have a boyfriend”? Like what’s the other option, give away the cat that you live with and love and who loves you back for a random man you just met? (Cause I assume if you’re getting close you have talked about different subjects including cats)
I love this series but I think they were dead wrong on that story.
Yeah, I didn't really get what they were saying with that. Like, I'm sorry but my pet I've had for years is more important than any significant other that can't be around the animal at all. I could see a compromise, maybe, if you guys really wanna make it work where you keep the cat until it dies and in the meantime the SO takes allergy meds and you keep certain rooms "cat free". But if it's a "it's me or the cat" ultimatum? Uh, the cat, duh.
Yup! I am horrendously allergic to cats (no amount of medication can save me). If I find out someone I'm seeing has a cat, I know the relationship is going nowhere. I'm not asking a person to give up their pet and I am physically incompatible with a cat.
Like, we could never live together while the cat was alive. I wouldn't even be able to spend the night at their place. I'd never be able to borrow their clothes without putting them through the wash first.
And frankly, if someone offered to get rid of their cat so they could be with me, I would run a mile in the other direction. I do not want to be with someone who would do that
Shaaba said they're having to go through alternate solutions to conceive and I swear it took me a good two minutes to remember why they might be having issues with that
If there was a risk of my cat losing an eye I would definily staying with them. You can´t ever know if something will go wrong will you´re at the restaurant and I wouldn´t trust anyone else to care for my cats if they´re sick.
Also, if OP had found someone to take care of the cat and an emergency happened and she had to leave dinner early, OP´s boyfriend would also be upset because she had ruined his birthday dinner
And I can completely understand OP´s realization about caring more about the cat than about the boyfriend. My older cat have been with me for over 10 years, been my emotional support on some of the hardest moments of my life... She is part of my family! She will always be on top of my priority list with my close family
For the baby name story - I don't see why there can't be two people in the family with the same name. Considering the younger sister still may or may not have a baby in the future, it could be a few years apart and could even be nice that the kids have that in common with each other. The only way a name is a big deal to me where I would absolutely change it is if someone was caused intense trauma by someone with that name. Without that kind of context, it really shouldn't be that big of a deal.
I’m with you. Who cares if cousins or whoever have the same name? (Keep in mind my name is Jennifer, so I am used to someone else having my name NO MATTER WHERE I GO!)
I don't think the bouquet toss tradition is about ownership, but for me it still feels reminiscent of misogynistic origins in that it reminds me of the concept of women's perceived value being derived from their likelihood of getting married soon and not ending up as an "old maid". It just makes me think "oh, Sylvia, why don't you catch the bouquet so you can find yourself a nice husband already. You don't want to die alone, do you." I'm not saying a bouquet toss is inherently anti-feminist, but the superstition around it holds some uncomfortable baggage for a lot of people.
I feel you. I still want it at my wedding, but I would let everyone participate (male and non-binary friends as well). Maybe me and my future wife could toss them together. Would that mean the two who catches them are getting married?
I've been in the position of being uncomfortably made to partake in a bouquet toss, and to me, the problem lies in the fact that JUST women take part in it (implying that a woman's destiny is to get married when a man's isn't)
Exactly! I was looking for this comment! I was very surprised to see then wonder what is sexist about this tradition when it only depicts single women "fighting" to get married while men envision marriage as "ball and chain"
The tradition wasn't always for this reason, but the garter toss is the same thing. Single men do it and are the next to be married so I don't think your point in parentheses is necessarily correct. You just don't see them at weddings much anymore. I've seen plenty of wedding videos of men desperate to get the garter so I don't think it's totally one sided where it's implied that the women are desperate to get married and the men aren't. I agree with you for the origins of the tradition because the garter toss used to be for luck and not the next to be married, but for about 100 years that hasn't been the case. It might have sexist origins but I think it's in good fun now.
@@megancurtis9502 Well in this wedding they clearly had solely the bouquet toss and not the garter toss, so her point IS valid and it IS sexist because clearly they only find it important to signal to the single women that they should strive to get married, not the men.
And even if it would be done for both genders pushing somebody into it or demanding they take part is never ok and also pretty ridiculous. "It`s really important for me that you strive to get married next by jumping for this bouquet." What? Are you afraid your marriage will be miserable and want company, or what`s the point here?
@@anthill1510 I totally agree that forcing people to partake is really weird. I just don’t believe that having the tradition at a wedding is inherently sexist. I also don’t think there’s any evidence that these people didn’t have a garter toss. People who don’t do a garter toss don’t leave it out because they don’t want to pressure single men to get married and they do want the women to, they leave it out because it’s really weird in this century to throw a woman’s undergarment to single men. Maybe someday they’ll start throwing boutonnières or just do away with the tradition altogether. In the meantime I don’t think it’s necessarily holding up sexist stereotypes to do it at a wedding just for fun
So you tell all single women to gather because you want them to try to catch and in some cases fight for a bouquet that determines who is getting married next. You put the single women on display. You imply it`s really important who get`s married next and it`s very desirable to get married at all and preferably soon. You only do this for the women, not the men. That`s sexist.
You treat the women differently than the man in something like striving for marriage that is available for both and involves both sexes and should be important or unimportant to both sexes in the same way. That`s the defintion of sexism.
Also for a woman putting the emphasize on her striving for marriage means you are telling her what is really important in her life is to be tied to a man, you don`t tell the man that it`s defining for him to be tied to a woman. I don`t know how to explain to you that this is sexist if you don`t understand it now.
I am happy the tradition of the gater toss doesn`t exist any more because it is it`s own kind of terrible. I don`t care if brides throw their bouquet. I don`t think all people who do that are terrible sexists. Most people don`t think much about what traditions mean, most people don`t think much about anything in their life. But when you are having a discussion about what it means and why somebody might decide not to take part in it and you say "It`s not a sexist tradition", that`s ridiculous.
I would stay with the cat. It probably needed eye drops regularly to attempt to save the eye, and if it's not eating that's actually a very big deal in cats. Even taking an animal to the emergency vet is just stressful? I honestly feel like I would immediately opt out of a relationship where I was shit on for taking care of my pet.
The cat was in enough danger that leaving it alone would be irresponsible - if the eye issue developed in a day and the emergency vet said they could lose the eye, who knows what would happen over the next few hours. OP needed to be home and ready to take action to get their cat follow up care if needed. If OP canceled the reservation without asking that would stink, but would probably just be an accident - not realizing the boyfriend might want to go on his own or with a friend. But the boyfriend is an asshole for showing no empathy for OP’s concerns and calling them selfish.
I think a lot of people not on OP’s side just don’t know much about cats and their health, which is fine, but that’s probably why people are being goofy.
When a cat stops eating, it’s very very serious and they need to be monitored closely. If OP went to the dinner, the cat very well could’ve been dead (or dying) by the time they got home. It’s not a definite and it’s more likely the cat would be okay, but it’s not far fetched at all and not a risk anyone should take.
A lot of people seem to forget, that pets are part of the family. Would the bf been mad, when it was op's parent that had an emergency and needed help / supervision?
Heck, if something happened to my now husbands dog, when we were dating, I would have offered to come by, so he doesn't have to be alone in his worry.
exactly! cats health sometimes deteriorates really fast. what if they came home and the cat was dead or dying? idk about OP but if that happened to me i’d be SO PISSED at the person who made me leave my pets side when they needed me most.
Baby name story:
Like a fairy, I've called dibs on so many names while growing up while also never wanted a kid in the first place. When my sister got preggy, I gave them all the her and her son has one of the names I once claimed. And I love it, I'm happy I got to be a part of brainstorming names.
Wedding story:
I think the maid of honor is the biggest drama. She saw OP wanting to sneak away, knew about OP's prefernence about participating and decided to make a big deal out of it. The bride wouldn't have noticed if the moh didn't trash talk OP about it.
Cat story:
I don't care if the cat needs supervision about the eye it self or not. When you have a pet you are responsible for the physical AND mental wellfare of the pet. A trip to the vet and having stuff done can also affect their mental health. Also, the pain medication and if the cat was put under for the visit it could have side effects. I would NEVER leave my dog to go out to dinner, and none of my partners would call me asshole for it. My dog is also very anxious, so I wouldn't want him to be alone or with someone else. The pet also cannot verbally communicate their needs like a human can.
Going out to dinner is a leizure, the cat is a living being whom the owner is responisble for - there's no comparison. I think boyfriend is being very entitled about the exclusivity of the restautant.
Sure, there is probably some communication lacking here, I mean none of my partners would be surprised becasue we had discussions about this kinds of priorities. So OP and future partner needs to talk about their expectations in their relationship.
Seasonal specials? Really?
"More heads are better than less heads" psssh Shaaba clearly hasn't had to deal with a Hydra before
Cat story: A little ESH. I would stay with my cat. No question. Unless, maybe, I could get the vet to tell me it was safe. I might not be great company though. I would not cancel reservations though. I would encourage them to take a friend or someone else though. He sucks because of his reaction. Being disappointed is one thing, but the way he lashed out at her. At the very least he doesn't understand how she feels, but at worst if this is how he treats her whenever he gets mad he is a jerk. Either way I understand the breakup.
Bouquet toss: NTA I feel like it was her trying to be discreet. Personally in every wedding i have never been too the bouquet toss is not a 100% participation event. Usually it is a bit chaotic and some watched, some didn't. I grew up in religious circles. These people are just being wild. I feel like they only care because they don't like her politics. If anyone else had really gone to the bathroom they probably wouldn't care. They feel judged, but only because they are projecting.
Won't let me edit again so...
Name game: I agree with the NTA, but a conversation is important. It is important to try and handle it the best you can for your own peace of mind. I agree with the principle of not claiming a name, but that doesn't mean that if you learn someone close to you wants a name and you decide you want it you can still be an AH for using it. Basic you can be legally or technically correct, but still be an AH.
Why would the bride want ok to catch the flowers anyway? The flower toss is for single women who tries to catch said flowers in hopes of being the next to marry. OP doesn't want to marry.
Ooooh that last one reminded me of a post going around on tumblr that explains just how important and intense naming norms and Naming Dibs are in Mormon culture, so my suspicion here is that OP might be LDS.
(Meanwhile, I'm Serbian-American and about half the boys in my generation are named Nikola. All my parents' college friends just... did that. No dibs! Some are ten years apart! Everyone just went 'yeah, okay, Nikola it is.')
Thanks so much for this extra context about names! I learned something new 😊
This comment reminds me of the scene in My Big Fat Wedding where Toula is introducing Ian to all her cousins and everyone, male or female is named some variation of Nick.
I'm British Greek, we have three names and mix up the order
Ex-Mormon here; I’ve never really heard of naming dibs being a Mormon thing. Maybe it’s a Utah Mormon thing (Utah Mormons have a bunch of strange culture things that most other Mormons don’t have), but the only things I’ve heard about/experienced with names is funny spellings or naming kids after prophets or Book of Mormon characters (Tiancum, Brigham, and Nephi are the ones I’ve seen personally). Definitely possible-Mormons can have some really intense things and I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a thing for some Mormons somewhere-but idk if I’d necessarily pin OP as LDS based on the information we have.
@@justtired2050 yep! Unfortunately, I can't add links on YT comments, but if you Google "earlgraytay Utah baby names" you can find the post.
The post itself is pretty long, but here's one paragraph:
Mormon women start picking out names for their hypothetical future kids in fourth or fifth grade and snipe at each other for picking “weird” or “bad” ones. it’s something that’s supposed to be in the back of your head long before you have a kid. and because people will judge you if you pick a name that’s “too boring” or “too weird”, it is already an intricate dance of finding something that’s “interesting” enough to pass muster but not so “interesting” your kid won’t survive kindergarten.
As to the bouquet thing. You don't have to actively judge people for them to feel judged. People often make assumptions and this can be worse in groups of people. You know how you feel and think but everyone else just guesses based on your actions and their own notions/experiences. I think the drama in this friend group might be deeper than just a bouquet toss.
I've been in the situation of not wanting to be part of the bouquet throwing thing. I was with my ex for 20yrs & for feminist reasons I refused to get married. In those 20yrs we went to loads of weddings & once we had made our commitment to each other I didn't take part in bouquet tossing. I got loads of pressure & every time I responded "It's for single women, I'm not single". It didn't always satisfy people tho....
Totally on Jamie’s side with the bouquet toss - it is SO awkward, I’ve always hated it - there would be a couple single female adults and 4 children and I hate that attention and there’s so much pressure to do it. It also would highlight my singleness on top of the constant questions about it outside the wedding (even at my younger brother’s engagement dinner a family member said in front of everyone that I better hurry up and find someone and not let my younger brother be married first). With the bouquet toss, in my experience, there’s no just saying “no, I don’t want to participate.” People have always pushed and pushed and pushed. I don’t think I’ve went to the washroom to avoid it before, but I’ve absolutely went to the bathroom to avoid other things that made me feel very uncomfortable and anxious that didn’t actually require my presence.
When I got married myself I didn’t do it. My (fake) bouquet is sitting on the top of our bookshelf 5 years later. We skipped the taking the thing off the bride’s leg too.
I tried ti skip the bride dancing with all the men thing but the dj and guests “forced” that on me.
Bride dancing with all the men thing? That's a thing?!
@@WelcomeApathy yeah, where I live they play some song that goes “I knew the bride when she used to rock and roll” and then you have to dance with all your uncles and cousins and cousins in law and I hate it and didn’t want to do it but our DJ wanted to do all the traditions more than listen to the bride and groom paying him.
I forget what song they played next but it was for the groom to dance with the women.
It’s just not my thing to have eyes on me like that.
@@268anita Agh, that sounds awful. I'm sorry you didn't get listened to.
On the one hand I am sorry that happened to you, on the other hand I wonder what you let go on in your life that people around you think they can push you around on your own wedding day and are successful in that. (And what about your husband helping you out of this?)
There is no way my friends or family would do that because they know that trying to push me into anything just doesn`t fly. And my family are not all kind people, they just learned that I will stand up for myself very firmly even if it would cause a scene at my own wedding.
I mean YOU hired and paid the DJ or at least he was hired for your wishes? A clear, angry word with him from you or your husband would have stopped this, don`t you think?
Your wedding is over but there is no way you let yourself be pushed around like this in your own wedding and it`s not happening all the time in the rest of your life.
It`s not just these people not respecting your wishes. It`s also you not standing up for yourself.
@@anthill1510 bit of a stretch from one boomer dj playing a song and making an announcement without us knowing he would do it to a statement about my whole life.
Extended family I see twice a year who are used to this at every wedding wouldn’t know how I feel about this stuff.
I picked my daughter’s name when I was a literal child, but it had special meaning in regard to a tradition with my father. Years later, my sister was pregnant with her third daughter & really wanted to use the name for her girl, but she remembered that I always wanted that name for my daughter. I’m almost 9 years younger than my sister so I hadn’t yet had any children. She never discussed it with me, but she also didn’t use the name out of respect for me. A year later I had my daughter & gave her the name. She then told me how she wanted to use it, but didn’t because she knew how important it was to me. I would’ve been pretty crushed if she had used the name, & I appreciate my sister so much for keeping me in consideration ❤️
For the red flag/green flag: my gut says red flag because at my best friend's wedding, her sister-in-law hiked up her dress and peed on the steps outside the venue because she was so drunk and couldn't be bothered to find an available bathroom. I laugh about it even 8 years later.
😂 Oh god.
@@faithpearlgenied-a5517 she was in her late 20s/early 30s with children, too.. So she wasn't even super young or anything. 😂
See it's just SUCH a bad idea!! Especially if it's someone close to you, because SO MANY friends/ family members are there to witness your embarrassment
At my friend's wedding another friend of theirs came up to me and got like half way through a sentence before throwing up on the ground 😅😫 she then looked at me and went "sshh, don't tell anyone" 😆 thankfully the wedding was in a field, definitely could have been worse...
I'm also not a drinker. It just doesn't make me feel great, but I get so much judgement!!
If OP in the first one cancelled the *reservations* that would be a big no. But if she just cancelled with the bf, he could potentially bring someone else to the restaurant instead. But there is a potential alternative in which someone trusted could look after the cat for you. I have a couple friends i could trust to look over my babies for me. I would not be willing to leave the cat alone in the house when i don't have to. I DEFINITELY would not be getting drunk while my cat was unwell. Bf can go out and get wrecked if he wants, he's an adult, but i would not be joining him. He can have one of the boys go out with him. My kitty needs their mama.
(Also. I would for sure break up with a boyfriend if he doesn't care about my cats, or didn't like cats in general. I will prioritize my family over a paramour.)
I had my baby names picked out in my early 20s and by the time I had my kids (twins) in my mid thirties, those names weren’t even in the mix anymore.
I picked my favorite baby name when I was about 10/11 years old. Another decade later and that was the name I gave my daughter 😉
Not disagreeing with the spirit of what you’re saying though, lol
Yeah, I think the fact that the sister is 19 is absolutely a factor. She will be a completely different person in a few years.
The bouquet story: it's so weird that they'd care that much about who took part of the bouquet catching (I think I skipped out on it at least a couple times and no one cared). UNLESS.... these friends aren't actually okay with her plan to never marry, and was hoping to use the bouquet toss as a way to pressure her to actually tie the knot.
My cat had an ulcer in her eye, she had to have eye drops every 4 hours, even through the night (lots of alarms needed!) It went on for 3 months, and unfortunately she did end up having to have the eye removed. I can see if it's just happened you'd be very worried, and if they did need drops that often and through the night I would not feel in the mood to go out and get drunk anymore. However I agree, she called to just cancel, no discussion and no other options explored it sounded like
Re: the cat - a cat should NEVER be left alone for long periods if they’re sick enough that they stopped eating. They need very close monitoring so that if they stop drinking, using the litter box, aren’t moving around much, are vomiting etc they can get emergency care.
Cats often hide any illness or pain, when it gets to the stage that they’re not eating or are doing any of the things I listed, it’s really really serious.
All of that aside, the anxiety of leaving them alone would be a valid reason. I agree that for something as important as a birthday, it’s super shitty to cancel just because you had a bad day or are tired or something. But when your cat is so ill they could lose an eye, I think that’s a good enough reason.
I can see why the bf would be disappointed, but if my partner couldn’t understand why I needed to be home with my cat in that situation and was MAD at me for it I’d probably be ending the relationship. If it were my partners cat, I would’ve cancelled the dinner myself and stayed home to look after them together.
I agree with jamie on the bouquet toss. Ive never seen it as a big part of the wedding that everyone has to gather around to watch and play. Its always been a more of a, 'this is happening now, if you want to participate do so, if not, feel free to watch or wander off." Whoever is there, wants to play, whoever isnt, doesnt.
Every wedding I've ever been to, participation in the boutique toss was 100% optional. Period. Because it's not the most important moment it's just a fun little tradition that people can part take in if they WANT to. That was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. How on earth is that a political statement?!?! Unless the bride expected OP to stand up on a table and shout about the patriarchy, then the bride's reaction was uncalled for
I think it may be mandatory depending on the location/culture. I've been at several weddings were ALL unmarried women and girls older than about 10 were supposed to participate in the bouquet toss. At one wedding, most of the girls stepped AWAY from the falling bouquet (which, it seems to me, is more embarrassing to have happen, than having some 'eligible' friends leave the room).
There was a small crowd of maybe 10 young unmarried women at my Best Friends wedding (I was MOH). We were all jokingly jostling eachother and warming up to catch, the bride threw the bouquet and EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of us took this unrehearsed, simultaneous step backward. The bouquet landed on the ground. The bride turned round. And the 11 of us awkwardly stared at the bouquet. 😅 I respect the OP politely opting out instead 😂
Re: baby names - I can get where the sister is upset, but honestly? My tastes changed so much between when I was a teen and when I had kids. Little October (Tobi for short!), Autumn, Grayson, Bennett were not to be. I had Olivia on my shortlist when my sister was pregnant, and that was their girl's name (turned out to be a boy), and I was bummed, but I'd have given it up because I don't think you get to really claim names. I also don't think it's the worst thing if cousins have the same names. It can be annoying, but most kids get family nicknames anyway, so whatever, imo. Unless this name is a super special name for personal reasons, I think everyone gets to pick the name they like and the one having a baby gets to pick first.
I completely agree! Names are names. Let people do what they want. My friend's father is Mike and she married a Mike (Jr.), so her FIL is also a Mike. But they deal with it because they have to. I have other friends in similar situations. I think people should be able to do what they wish. ❤️
The religious tradition comparison to the bouquet toss is a good way of thinking about it. Someone can respectfully decline to participate in a religious prayer without being a drama.
The drama is clearly from those wanting to force someone to participate in a tradition they are uncomfortable with.
Eye infections can be deadly and like I'd rather cancel a birthday than come home and my cat is dead, but I definitely don't agree with how she did it.
What cracks me up about the baby names analogy, with all the siblings wanting to call their babies Mary, is that exact thing happened with my grandmother. She was born around the same time as several of her cousins, and all of them ended up being named Marianne. My grandma ended up being called Sally until the day she died, despite her legal name being Marianne.
When I heard the first AITA in this episode, all I could think about was the situation I was in with my ex. She was allergic to cats, but knew I had a cat prior to moving in with me. She tried getting treatment for her allergies, but eventually told me that her allergies were too bad, and I had to give away my cat or she'd move out. I chose to give him up, not wanting her to suffer every time she was in the house. She broke up with me months later over another ultimatum, and I've regretted giving him up and have missed him every day. I love you Spooky, wherever you are 😢
I am absolutely heartbroken for you
My cat passed due to an eye cyst rupture last year. It is ABSOLUTELY justified to stay on watch because their life depends on it
i completely agree. im so sorry for your loss💔
i lost my dog a couple of years ago, so i've had a lot of time to think about it. i try to remember that while we couldn't lengthen their lives, we loved and cared for them while they were here with us as best as we could. i think our pets are grateful for that alone 💜💜
It's so funny your example was skipping graduation cuz I skipped both middle school and college graduation ceremonies because I hate pomp and circumstance. I'm AuDHD and it's a nightmare to sit through with no payoff.
I got to say about the cat; I have cancelled a whole weekend of volunteering work where Iwas gonna be away and had planned on friends coming to look after my cat cause he got sick. I was at the vet a couple days before said weekend and I just couldn't face leaving him alone. I wouldn't have been focussed on the work, I would have been distracted and if he got worse and I wasn't there to take him to the vet and care for him I would never have forgived myself. Luckily my organisation is wonderful and they were very understanding and asked about my cat afterwards. If a boyfriend wouldn't understand cancelling a weekend away because of this, I would have dumped him. No questions. So the restaurant thing.. yeah I get it. By the sounds of it the cat was in serious trouble and vets will ask you to stay with them in those moments.
NTA for the cat story. If there was a chance my cat could lose their eye then I'm staying home. I would never be able to forgive myself if it got worse while I was gone. I don't think there was a conversation to be had. Like it's a living creature under your care. Even if you don't view your cat as family you at least need to view it as a living creature under your care and you need to take that seriously. Same as any other dependant in your care. Also the boyfriend was a complete jerk given the severity of the situation with the cat.
The biggest issue was her just cancelling without offering to let him take the reservation so he and a friend could go out. I agree 100% she should have stayed home, but maybe he wanted to still go.
It’s the theme tune of this podcast for me.
OP cared more for cat, while ex-boyfriend cared more about getting drunk. OP made the correct decision.
👀
You guys are definitely not the drama 😂 going so thoughtfully and thoroughly through the cat story really gave a sense of closure, even before the edit! I’m loving the podcast ❤ Also that moment when Shaaba gave Jamie a brownie badge 🥹 Adorable badges for both of y’all!
My husband didn’t get dessert at our wedding. He’s still really bummed about that, lol
For the second story, the bridesmaid and bride were projecting SO MUCH! It has nothing to do with OP
Shaaba: "Isn't the groom supposed to remove the garter with his teeth?"
Jamie: *distressed owl sound*
xD
The cat story I feel deep in my soul. Last year on my husbands birthday our cat got hit by a car. We had to rush him to the vets for multiple Surgeries. We went out to his planned birthday meal later that day and we were MISERABLE the whole time. It wasn't worth going. (Our cat is fine now).
First off, I love having both of you on the show, and I love seeing you work through your thoughts together 💕
Also, I think the bouquet toss and the drinking issue are soo similar in that there are certain things that people feel judged about whenever it goes against the norm. Because even when you are chill about it, others feel like you are attacking their values or calling them morally wrong. As someone who doesn't drink I feel a lot of kinship with chill vegans. Even when you give a polite 'no thank you ' and never bring it up otherwise, some people act like you have stabbed them through the heart. Obviously this isn't how most people act, and of course there are vegans/non-drinkers/feminists who are judgy, but it's so interesting how the smallest disagreement bothers some.
OPs cat is potentially dying, to say she should go have dinner with a guy who called her an ahole 😬😬😬 wild
I think it's super cute when cousins have the same name, it's quite common in some cultures.
35:46 I’ve heard of this too. I feel like there’s more to it? Like, the groom removes the garter, possibly with his teeth, and then tosses it to the men after and then whichever dude catches it is next to get married?
Jamie's scared noises when he heard you're supposed to remove it with your teeth was hilarious to me lol. I also had no idea that was a thing
The bouquet toss OP was definitely under more pressure than she expressed in her description. I've got a cousin like that MOH, and every time there's a wedding she browbeats me into getting involved with the bouquet toss. I have learnt to just give in, wander over slowly, and deliberately stand further away than the bride can throw. I don't judge anyone who likes bouquet tossing, I just believe everyone should have the right to choose what they are involved with there. I'm not planning to get married, so I don't want to be involved, and that decision should be respected. Same for OP. 👍
The cat story: if the answer is "yes, I need to stay with the cat," then offer your seat to one of the spouse's friends! "Sorry babe, I need to stay home, but take one of your friends and have a good time. Stay safe"
The wedding story: the bouquet toss actually has the least sexist background than other wedding traditions. But I think the bride wanted to do something that has been more common in modern weddings. Instead of tossing the bouquet, the bride rushes a participant and hands them the bouquet. The story strongly sounds like the bride was planning that and OP shut it down by going potty
“What happens if everyone names their daughter Mary?”
Laughs in South American family where every single girl’s first name is Maria. Moms, sisters, cousins, the works!
How does that work in practice? Nicknames?
@@alex_blue5802 middle names, mostly
for the cat one: all i can think of is how horrible id feel if i left one of my pets when they were sick/injured. i don’t think i’d be able to focus on anything else id just be worried about them, even if they had someone watching them i’d still be checking in every few minutes or just be worrying in general.
i can’t help but think what if something goes wrong? what if they really need me and i’m not there? what if their condition gets worse because i couldn’t be there for them? it’s all fun and games til you come home to a dead pet. it happened to me. i can’t imagine how much more upset i would have felt if i knew i could have avoided leaving and maybe could have helped them. i would’ve been especially upset/angry if my partner had made me leave their side. idk if i’d be able to stay w that person and not see them as part of the reason my pet died without me trying to help or at least being by their side.
i fully know i’m catastrophising the whole situation, but it does happen that pets health can decrease REALLY fast, so it’s important *to me* to be there to notice changes in behaviour and help if possible. and i’d just be so torn up if my pet died alone just because my partner wanted to go out and get drunk.
plus like,,, i get wanting to celebrate your birthday on your birthday, but you CAN do it another day. my family almost never celebrates ppls birthdays on the actual day because of work/school/etc, so we usually celebrate on the weekend instead.
i low-key think the bf is an asshole for calling OP selfish and a massive asshole for just taking care of her cat. i get it can hurt for someone to cancel plans (esp on your birthday and at your favourite restaurant) but they could’ve tried to figure out a way to make it work (takeout, having him go alone/with a friend instead, etc)
Shaba is 100% correct about the garter removal for the toss at a wedding. lol. I can't remember who caught my bouquet or the garter either and I definitely don't know who participated and who didn't
First story: As a fellow introvert like Jamie, i fullly agree with him. I tend to take off when i know for a fact that i will be pressured to do something i am very uncomfortable with or dont agree with. But that is after i have explained myself at least once and dont care to explain yet again.
And, that was very mature of you Shaba that you came to your conclusion and shared it, that having Jamie there as a different perspective, sometimes helps you make your decisions.
My roommate would spend the whole dinner in a panic about her dog. But getting someone to watch the cat while sending frequent "cat's ok" messages if it means she actually tries going on a date for once (ok talking about the roommate again)
What shaaba said at around the 27 minute mark about jamie being a valuable part of considering different perspectives and evaluating your own is exactly why I love this show. So much of it is hearing things in a context or a way that I would have never considered otherwise. Being able to hear from other people is awesome and I love it so much! keep it going!
29:02 You two are so wholesome, I can't.❤ This podcast has become such a comforting treat, a little pause in life's bs.)
I would not leave my cat. I also am not staying with a man who calls me an ahole. My cat passed away.. And I will tell you I in no way regret canceling appointment &/or dates to be with her in her time of need. If people especially a boyfriend doesn't understand- goodbye!
For the record, I LOVE your “Am I the Drama” episodes because I love seeing you guys interact. You have such a wonderful dynamic to you and I think you’re such a sweet couple!!! ❤
For the bouquet toss one I understand tbh and I think not the drama. I’ve been pulled to do the bouquet toss and just act like I’m participating. One time I was pregnant and they tried to get me to do it and I said I already have to much to worry about getting married.