The EASIEST and i mean EASIEST way to understand and visualize cases in your head if your language uses inflection instead of them is as follows: Every case explains... literally a case in which the OBJECT is put in some kind of situation to be acted upon. What i mean by that is as follows: The very first thing this gentleman said in the video about the Icelandic nomenclature of Nominative Accusative etc, (nefnifall, tholfall, thaugulfall, eignarfall) is kinda the easiest way to understand it as in Icelandic it means, correct me if i'm wrong, The man, from a man, to a man, of a man. Comparing my language of 7 cases with Icelandic, it pretty much makes sense because of this: Nominative: Who? What? The man. Genitive: Of Whom? Of What? Of the man Dative: To whom? To the man? Accusative: Who? what? (differs from nominative because of the context; e.g. Give me the Apple is accusative because of the suffix we use for the appropriate context in the case) Vocative: Hey! Hey man! (the vocal case when you're trying to get attention from someone, you use a different suffix when addressing people) Instrumental: With who? With what? With the man. Locative: About who? about what? About the man. So basically, instead of using inflection as in english, we use cases to verbalize who or what the action is put upon in a sentence. The language is Bosnian.
I've studied latin for over a year now and it also has 7 cases. I used to not understand grammatical concepts like cases at all, now they make perfect sense. There is so much clarity when using cases. English has a lot of ambiguity that can make it really confusing, whereas a language with cases actually has rules and optimizes information density. Take a line from De Bello Gallico: "His rebus permotus Quintus Titurius, cum procul Ambiorigem suos cohortantem conspexisset, interpretem suum Cn. Pompeium ad eum mittit rogatum ut sibi militibusque parcat." It opens up with an ablative plural of 'res' which means "thing", and the demonstrative pronoun agreeing with the noun. Then we have a perfect passive participle, permotus, meaning "having been moved or motivated; swayed". Participles act like adjectives in Latin, and so this participle is modifying the subject of the sentence, Quintus Titurius. So now it's "Quintus Titurius, having been swayed by these things". Next we have the preposition 'cum', lol, which means "when" when it's in the same clause as a verb in the subjunctive mood. Procul means far, afar, from a distance, anything along those lines. Next is 'Ambiorigem', which is the accusative singular of some guy's name: Ambiorex, we know that he's going to receive some sort of action in the sentence in the clause. 'Suos' is the possessive pronoun 'suus' in the accusative plural, but it's not receiving the action that 'Ambiorigem' is receiving. Then we get cohortantem, a present active participle in the accusative singular case, acting as an adjective by modifying "Ambiorigem", and means "cheering on" or "motivating". And finally, we get our verb, conspexisset, which is in the 3rd person singular pluperfect active voice subjunctive mood of the verb 'conspicere'; to notice, to catch sight of. So all together, "Quintus Titurius, having been swayed by these things, when he had caught sight of Ambiorex cheering on his men". For the sake of brevity, I'll just say that the following clause has a few accusatives, including a supine, then two datives. It translates to "he sent his interpreter, Gn. Pompeius, to him to ask if he and his men may be spared" (spoilers, they died).
Thanks a lot!!! I'm learning Old Norse because I want to read the sagas of icelanders in it's original form, but I'm using the Michael Barnes "Introduction to Old Norse" and when it got into cases my mind just melted down, but this video clarified a lot when each case is used.
This video is fantastic! I’m studying Icelandic at my university and the cases are so confusing! I’m happy Swedish and Icelandic are very similar in the sentence building though
Thank you a lot. It remembers me to the japanese particles that you put on a noun to say that that noun is subject (wa), direct objetc (wo), indirect (ni), etc
Icelandic cases work the same as German cases, and they are a subset of Latin and Slavic cases, so this is a good intro to cases for English-speaking students who want to learn German, Russian, Latin, Polish, Czech, and so on.
@@schrire39 German and Icelandic have four cases. The other languages in my list have those cases, plus more. My point is the number of cases, not the relationships between the languages. (Hungarian, Estonian, and Finnish have cases up the whazoo.)
@@evaphillips2102 I would. I speak German, and some Icelandic words are very similar, almost homophones. The grammar is also very similar with the impersonal nouns (Ich denke mich, etc.). I almost feel like Icelandic is the father of the Germanic languages, but I am not a linguist, so I don't know for sure. I'm headed to Iceland in a couple weeks, and while I will not be fluent by any means, I feel like speaking German has given me just enough knowledge to be dangerous in Icelandic, LOL
I cannot thank you enough for this video. It is helping me to understand inflections in a way that I never have before. Learning with your method is much easier and, dare I say it, quite enjoyable. Thank you very much for the work that you have done on RUclips, and thank you, in particular, for this video. It is a life-saver! I just had a Russian lesson today where my teacher was trying to explain inflections in his languages and it was a real struggle. Your explanation in this video is helping all of the pieces to come together. Again, thank you!
Thanks for your videos. And, please, keep on with this project, as it's the most helpful and practical information I've found on Icelandic so far. Thanks once again!
My language uses a declension as well (7 cases at that), but I find declension in Icelandic trully difficult. I can't imagine people from England, Spain, France or other countries, whose mothertongues don't recognize this grammar phenomena learning a language with declension.
same here with german. we also „bend“ the nouns and everything around them (pronouns, adjectives, participles) in four casus, but learning and developing a feeling for this in another language than the mothertongue is crazy hard. especially if exceptions are the rule 😅.
1:52 In fact they are not arbitrary, though their meaning may be obscure even to speakers of languages derived from Latin. "Nominative" is related to "nomen" (name). "Dative" is related to words like the verb "dare" (to give). "Genitive" is related to "genus" (birth, race, class, etc.). And finally, "accusative" is called that way because it marks the object receiving the action from the verb (imagine a finger pointing to it, like it's accusing it). In Spanish we say "acuse de recibo" for "acknowledgment of receipt". If you think about the cases names in that way, I'm sure you'll find they make a lot more sense :)
Thanks for the comment! As I mentioned in the video, the terms aren't actually arbitrary but many English speakers may incorrectly associate the case names with modern English words that are only nominally related. So for most English speakers, I think it's better to view the case names as arbitrary in order to avoid confusion. The Icelandic names aren't arbitrary either: nefnifall is derived from nafn, meaning "name." Þolfall is derived from þola, meaning to suffer or experience. Þágufall is derived from þága, meaning "on behalf of." And eignarfall is derived from eign, meaning possession or property.
First of all, I thank you for this lesson! However, as a German-speaker, I don't need to know about the *function* of the four cases. But the way in which the accusative, dative and genitive nouns are declined are difficult for me to remember. (I've already "dabbled" in Icelandic, and found that one thing that this language has in common with English is the "progressive conjugation" of verbs "He studies" and "He is studying" are concepts that do not exist in German. So, I look forward to your next tutorials!
I am glad you enjoyed the video! That's true, it is very helpful to have German as a native language because the cases are very similar. The declensions are difficult so I have made several videos about noun inflection forms. Maybe they will be useful to you. Good luck with your studies!
@@icelandicforforeigners Actually, I am an Anglophone, but have mastered German to a native-speaker level. I look forward to continuing with your lessons. Þakka þér fyrir!
Love the eth and thorn! Kinda wish English would bring them back. Think that with knowledge of German, it may be possible to read some bits.. will take some time with listening comp though.
This video simplifies the concept slightly, as there are times when the case itself denotes the noun’s role in the sentence. For example, the two I mentioned in the video are indirect objects in the dative case and possession with the genitive case. The reason I explained it the way I did in the video is because direct objects can be in accusative, dative, or genitive, so an overarching rule that a certain case signifies a certain role is not very reliable 🙂
So do the cases besides nominative represent or tell us nothing about an object? What does dat,gen and acc tell us about the object? Sorry if I missed anything you said in the video, this is very new for me. 😅
This video simplifies the concept slightly, as there are times when the case itself denotes the noun’s role in the sentence. For example, the two I mentioned in the video are indirect objects in the dative case and possession with the genitive case. There are other examples you could add, such as senses and impressions with the dative case ("mér er kalt" = "I am cold"). The reason I explained it the way I did in the video is because direct objects can be in accusative, dative, or genitive, so an overarching rule that a certain case signifies a certain role is not very reliable 🙂
The Digicoll online dictionary through the University of Wisconsin provides an adequate English-Icelandic dictionary that lists the correct cases. The dictionary at islenskordabok.arnastofnun.is/ also works :)
Thomas Brennan I recommend this online one for English-Icelandic: digicoll.library.wisc.edu/IcelOnline/Search.TEId.html If you’re interested in other kinds let me know what you’re looking for!
Thank you, this is very helpful. I have a question though, in the genitive case proper nouns are placed after the object, as shown in the video with this example: "Bakpoki Stefáns". But I came across other examples where the proper noun is placed before the object and is attached to it, which here would be "Stefánsbakpoki". And, I'd like to translate "Sigrún's dance". So, what would the correct translation be? "Dans Sigrúnar" or "Sigrúnardans" ?
Good question. This represents much more than simple possession; it's actually giving the thing a name. It's mainly only used with place names in Iceland and historical works. So calling it "Sigrúnardans" would be like giving the type of dance a name. Creating names this way is rarely something anyone does on the spot. If you're just talking about the dance that Sigrún performed, you should say "dans Sigrúnar." Sometimes compound words are created using the genitive, such as "bæjarstjóri," "mayor." These words need to be learned as they are, because there are many ways these words can be derived and they are hard to guess. Let me know if this answers your question.
@@icelandicforforeigners Thank you very much, indeed it makes a lot more sense now. It also explains the names of certain places in Iceland, for example _Guðrúnarlaug,_ which in English would be _Guðrún's pool._ However, in other instances, we have things such as _Chicken Dance_ translated as _Fugladansinn._ If I understand correctly, _dans_ is the nominative case of _dance_ without article, and _dansinn_ is the nominative case with an article. What I'm wondering here is, why _Fugladansinn_ and not _Fugladans_ ? There's no article in English, it's not _ The Chicken Dance_ but _Chicken Dance._ If that rule was applied to _Sigrún's dance_ it would be _Sigrúnardansinn;_ and for _Hárbarðr's poem,_ we would have _Hárbarðsljóðið_ (instead of _Hárbarðsljóð)._ How do we decide when to put an article or not? What is best, _Sigrúnardans_ or _Sigrúnardansinn_ ?
Very good observations. "Fugladans" is probably more akin to "bæjarstjóri." It's not the dance of specific birds, just of birds in general. So the translation for "fugladans" would likely be "a bird dance." So you can make it definite by adding the article. Similarly, bæjarstjóri would translate to "town leader," but because it's not referring to a specific town, it could also be translated as "a town leader" or "leader of a town." So you can add the definite article. On the other hand, Hárbarðsljóð is already definite because there is a proper noun attached (the name). So it wouldn't make sense to make it definite again. In general I think it's uncommon to create new words by combining names and nouns. That's why I believe the preferred translation would be "dans Sigrúnar." But if you want to combine them, whether or not you use Sigrúnardans or Sigrúnardansinn probably depends on whether it's referring to a specific Sigrún. If you're saying that it's a dance of Sigrúns generally, I would probably use Sigrúnardansinn. If it's the dance of a specific Sigrún, I would say Sigrúnardans. When in doubt, ask an Icelander :)
@@icelandicforforeigners I see! In this case it's a specific Sigrún. I'm writing a fantasy story about a mythical woman whose reputation and name, Sigrún, traveled through the ages and whose unique fighting skills and techniques have almost become a martial art in itself, that many others have used: "Sigrún's dance". So I think I'll go with _Sigrúnardans._ Thank you very much for taking the time to give a clear and developed explanation, and for your hard work on these videos!
Great question! Ultimately, yes. The object of a verb may be in accusative, dative, or genitive, depending on the verb. However, direct objects are more likely to be in accusative and indirect objects are more likely to be in dative. So if you're not sure and have to guess, I would use that as a basis. The reason I don't state that as the rule is because there are so many exceptions. Like gleyma (to forget), whose direct object is in dative. Or sakna (to miss), whose direct object is in genitive. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of these exceptions. My experience is that learners often believe that direct objects are always in accusative, which isn't true and confuses them later on. I hope that answers your question!
Is it just coincidental that the majority of the time the direct object will get accusative, and the indirect object towards the end of a sentence will be in dative? This understanding really has done me justice 70% of the time. I appreciate you! Very helpful vids. I'm about 8 months in and picking things up quickly for a 45 year old guy
Yes it is cool. But what about "instrumental" case? How would I say I CUT DOWN A TREE WITH A SWORD? I think in this case it would be GENETIVE? Like not really the instrumental one but rather a similar concept of it. Right? Like I CUT DOWN A TREE WITH "OF" MY SWORD which means not with a sword itself but with its entity that is related to it as its nature. I am right? :)
Great question! Icelandic has no instrumental case, unlike the Slavic languages. To express instrumentality, Icelandic uses the preposition með followed by the dative case: Ég felldi tré með sverði.
1:32 That's not exactly right. German speakers will be familiar with these words because German uses them too (Nominativ, Akkusativ, Dativ, Genitiv). They aren't arbitrary either: Nominative comes from Latin "nominativus" which, in a grammatical context, means "main", i. e. the main word of the sentence or the subject. Accusative has the same roots as "to accuse"; from Latin "ad" (to) + "causa" (cause, matter at hand), i. e. the word that the action at hand applies to. Dative is also related to "data"; it comes from Latin "do, dare" which means "to give". Data is information that has been given, dative is used for the object/person something is given to. Genitive has the same roots as English "genitor", it refers to the origin/propriety of something.
Yes, as I said in the video, the names are Latin. I should have been clearer that the names seem arbitrary to English speakers because these words have no meaning in other contexts and most are not familiar with grammatical cases.
Hi Dear. I want to study Icelandic. I wanted to know if i can get e discount. I will wait for your answer. Best Regards Vusal Mammadov Kaliningrad, Russland
3:45 Don't say "that "experiences" the verb". In English, something that "experiences" the verb is most likely also a subject, like "*I* like apples". The apple does not experience the liking, it's "I". In a language like Hindi, this type of argument usually uses dative case, not direct case (Hindi is not nom-acc).
People seem to understand what I mean, so I think the video is a success ;) My videos are generally not tailored to viewers who understand the intricacies of morphosyntactic alignment, though I certainly appreciate your observation!
Acusative and dative isn't arbitrary. It's a memory hint, but not for English native speakers. To accuse governs accusative and to give (date is give in latin) governs dative.
Thank god I know German. This case system is simple because the two are similar. I quit Polish though because that case system is complete BS nonsense and torture.
Yeah Polish has 7 cases, not to mention Polish masculine nouns are split into animate and inanimate, no other gender in Polish does that, so it becomes loads confusing.
Yes, as I said in the video, the names are Latin. I should have been clearer that the names seem arbitrary to English speakers because those words have no meaning in other contexts and most English speakers are unfamiliar with cases
![The Icelandic Cases - Introduction [EP.44]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NIb6VhmJ1ns/mqdefault.jpg)
You are doing an astounding labor by means of this videos. Those who are learning salute you. Takk fyrir og bless bless!
Hallo Roberto, er þú frá Brasíliu eđa Portugalsku?
teaching English and Icelandic both. what a pro chad..... huge respect for you sir.
Thank you, I'm an aspiring hyper polyglot gigachad ;)
The EASIEST and i mean EASIEST way to understand and visualize cases in your head if your language uses inflection instead of them is as follows:
Every case explains... literally a case in which the OBJECT is put in some kind of situation to be acted upon.
What i mean by that is as follows:
The very first thing this gentleman said in the video about the Icelandic nomenclature of Nominative Accusative etc, (nefnifall, tholfall, thaugulfall, eignarfall) is kinda the easiest way to understand it as in Icelandic it means, correct me if i'm wrong, The man, from a man, to a man, of a man.
Comparing my language of 7 cases with Icelandic, it pretty much makes sense because of this:
Nominative: Who? What? The man.
Genitive: Of Whom? Of What? Of the man
Dative: To whom? To the man?
Accusative: Who? what? (differs from nominative because of the context; e.g. Give me the Apple is accusative because of the suffix we use for the appropriate context in the case)
Vocative: Hey! Hey man! (the vocal case when you're trying to get attention from someone, you use a different suffix when addressing people)
Instrumental: With who? With what? With the man.
Locative: About who? about what? About the man.
So basically, instead of using inflection as in english, we use cases to verbalize who or what the action is put upon in a sentence.
The language is Bosnian.
I've studied latin for over a year now and it also has 7 cases. I used to not understand grammatical concepts like cases at all, now they make perfect sense. There is so much clarity when using cases. English has a lot of ambiguity that can make it really confusing, whereas a language with cases actually has rules and optimizes information density. Take a line from De Bello Gallico: "His rebus permotus Quintus Titurius, cum procul Ambiorigem suos cohortantem conspexisset, interpretem suum Cn. Pompeium ad eum mittit rogatum ut sibi militibusque parcat." It opens up with an ablative plural of 'res' which means "thing", and the demonstrative pronoun agreeing with the noun. Then we have a perfect passive participle, permotus, meaning "having been moved or motivated; swayed". Participles act like adjectives in Latin, and so this participle is modifying the subject of the sentence, Quintus Titurius. So now it's "Quintus Titurius, having been swayed by these things". Next we have the preposition 'cum', lol, which means "when" when it's in the same clause as a verb in the subjunctive mood. Procul means far, afar, from a distance, anything along those lines. Next is 'Ambiorigem', which is the accusative singular of some guy's name: Ambiorex, we know that he's going to receive some sort of action in the sentence in the clause. 'Suos' is the possessive pronoun 'suus' in the accusative plural, but it's not receiving the action that 'Ambiorigem' is receiving. Then we get cohortantem, a present active participle in the accusative singular case, acting as an adjective by modifying "Ambiorigem", and means "cheering on" or "motivating". And finally, we get our verb, conspexisset, which is in the 3rd person singular pluperfect active voice subjunctive mood of the verb 'conspicere'; to notice, to catch sight of. So all together, "Quintus Titurius, having been swayed by these things, when he had caught sight of Ambiorex cheering on his men". For the sake of brevity, I'll just say that the following clause has a few accusatives, including a supine, then two datives. It translates to "he sent his interpreter, Gn. Pompeius, to him to ask if he and his men may be spared" (spoilers, they died).
I felt so confident along this entire lesson as I'd already learnt these cases in German 😍🇩🇪🇮🇸
Ja,also ist es einfach für mich 💞💞😊😊
@@ashishkuriakose2450 sehr wahrscheinlich ;)
wie geht alles beim isländisch-lernen?
Thanks a lot!!! I'm learning Old Norse because I want to read the sagas of icelanders in it's original form, but I'm using the Michael Barnes "Introduction to Old Norse" and when it got into cases my mind just melted down, but this video clarified a lot when each case is used.
That's great, good luck with your studies!
Thank you for sharing this content free, I love Iceland and its culture, greetings from Brazil !
This video is fantastic! I’m studying Icelandic at my university and the cases are so confusing! I’m happy Swedish and Icelandic are very similar in the sentence building though
Hi! Is there a book or a chart that shows what cases follow a verb? Let’s say for example kosta (þolfall)
Thank you a lot. It remembers me to the japanese particles that you put on a noun to say that that noun is subject (wa), direct objetc (wo), indirect (ni), etc
Yes, a very similar concept!
Icelandic grammar reminds me of Ancient Greek grammar, almost the same rules! Good work!
Im a native icelandic speaker and this was helpful thank you
Takk Óskar! If you know anyone who is trying to learn Icelandic, feel free to direct them to my channel :)
Ég geri þađ takk fyrir ađ hjálpa fólki skylja íslensku
Icelandic cases work the same as German cases, and they are a subset of Latin and Slavic cases, so this is a good intro to cases for English-speaking students who want to learn German, Russian, Latin, Polish, Czech, and so on.
Not a subset but another branch of Indo-European languages. Latin and Slavic are siblings not parents to Germanic.
@@schrire39 German and Icelandic have four cases. The other languages in my list have those cases, plus more. My point is the number of cases, not the relationships between the languages. (Hungarian, Estonian, and Finnish have cases up the whazoo.)
I’m studying German now. Would you say that German proficiency would make reaching proficiency in Icelandic more easy?
@@evaphillips2102 I would. I speak German, and some Icelandic words are very similar, almost homophones. The grammar is also very similar with the impersonal nouns (Ich denke mich, etc.). I almost feel like Icelandic is the father of the Germanic languages, but I am not a linguist, so I don't know for sure. I'm headed to Iceland in a couple weeks, and while I will not be fluent by any means, I feel like speaking German has given me just enough knowledge to be dangerous in Icelandic, LOL
@@evaphillips2102 Yes
Awesome didactics! I always wanted to learn Icelandic. Super glad to find your channel!!
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoy them!
For the first time I am glad that I speak Russian and understand this system
Thanks for this great lesson
I cannot thank you enough for this video. It is helping me to understand inflections in a way that I never have before. Learning with your method is much easier and, dare I say it, quite enjoyable. Thank you very much for the work that you have done on RUclips, and thank you, in particular, for this video. It is a life-saver! I just had a Russian lesson today where my teacher was trying to explain inflections in his languages and it was a real struggle. Your explanation in this video is helping all of the pieces to come together. Again, thank you!
Thanks for your videos. And, please, keep on with this project, as it's the most helpful and practical information I've found on Icelandic so far. Thanks once again!
My language uses a declension as well (7 cases at that), but I find declension in Icelandic trully difficult. I can't imagine people from England, Spain, France or other countries, whose mothertongues don't recognize this grammar phenomena learning a language with declension.
Which language do you speak?
@@icelandicforforeigners Czech.
same here with german. we also „bend“ the nouns and everything around them (pronouns, adjectives, participles) in four casus, but learning and developing a feeling for this in another language than the mothertongue is crazy hard. especially if exceptions are the rule 😅.
my italian brain is exploding.
@@ilasickhead2010 in English, we never explicitly explain this - we just “know”...
Thank you for these videos, they're super interesting! Also for once taking Latin in school truly pays off.
I searched for something like this for a long time, thanks for your work its really clear
the names for the cases are also used when teaching german :))
bro this is gold
You're a hero.
Incredibly amazing! Can't thank you enough! Please keep going
This video seriously helped me so much!!!!!!!!
Everyday I just open up my text book while your channel opened as a reference 😂
1:52 In fact they are not arbitrary, though their meaning may be obscure even to speakers of languages derived from Latin. "Nominative" is related to "nomen" (name). "Dative" is related to words like the verb "dare" (to give). "Genitive" is related to "genus" (birth, race, class, etc.). And finally, "accusative" is called that way because it marks the object receiving the action from the verb (imagine a finger pointing to it, like it's accusing it). In Spanish we say "acuse de recibo" for "acknowledgment of receipt". If you think about the cases names in that way, I'm sure you'll find they make a lot more sense :)
By the way, "data" is also derived from "dare" (to give). It's the plural of "datum", which means "given".
Thanks for the comment! As I mentioned in the video, the terms aren't actually arbitrary but many English speakers may incorrectly associate the case names with modern English words that are only nominally related. So for most English speakers, I think it's better to view the case names as arbitrary in order to avoid confusion.
The Icelandic names aren't arbitrary either: nefnifall is derived from nafn, meaning "name." Þolfall is derived from þola, meaning to suffer or experience. Þágufall is derived from þága, meaning "on behalf of." And eignarfall is derived from eign, meaning possession or property.
First of all, I thank you for this lesson! However, as a German-speaker, I don't need to know about the *function* of the four cases. But the way in which the accusative, dative and genitive nouns are declined are difficult for me to remember. (I've already "dabbled" in Icelandic, and found that one thing that this language has in common with English is the "progressive conjugation" of verbs "He studies" and "He is studying" are concepts that do not exist in German. So, I look forward to your next tutorials!
I am glad you enjoyed the video! That's true, it is very helpful to have German as a native language because the cases are very similar. The declensions are difficult so I have made several videos about noun inflection forms. Maybe they will be useful to you. Good luck with your studies!
@@icelandicforforeigners Actually, I am an Anglophone, but have mastered German to a native-speaker level. I look forward to continuing with your lessons. Þakka þér fyrir!
Love the eth and thorn! Kinda wish English would bring them back. Think that with knowledge of German, it may be possible to read some bits.. will take some time with listening comp though.
Takk fyrir 😊
Outstanding video!
thanks for the vid! your channel is really helping me, kinda scared with the cases, but german also has them, I hope this helps me a little bit
One step at a time!
Vel gert! Mér finnst fallbeyging ekki slæm, nema sum orð. Til dæmis: annar, þessi... Bless bless!
So regardless of the role of the object in the sentence, it’s case is based only on what verb/preposition is used?
This video simplifies the concept slightly, as there are times when the case itself denotes the noun’s role in the sentence. For example, the two I mentioned in the video are indirect objects in the dative case and possession with the genitive case. The reason I explained it the way I did in the video is because direct objects can be in accusative, dative, or genitive, so an overarching rule that a certain case signifies a certain role is not very reliable 🙂
@@icelandicforforeigners okay fair enough. There’s room for confusion when English has two cases that are infected (gen and acc to some extent)
It is times like this that i find the fact that i speak Greek helpful to learn a different language
So do the cases besides nominative represent or tell us nothing about an object?
What does dat,gen and acc tell us about the object? Sorry if I missed anything you said in the video, this is very new for me. 😅
This video simplifies the concept slightly, as there are times when the case itself denotes the noun’s role in the sentence. For example, the two I mentioned in the video are indirect objects in the dative case and possession with the genitive case. There are other examples you could add, such as senses and impressions with the dative case ("mér er kalt" = "I am cold"). The reason I explained it the way I did in the video is because direct objects can be in accusative, dative, or genitive, so an overarching rule that a certain case signifies a certain role is not very reliable 🙂
Great lesson! Thank you :)
What dictionary do you recommend? The one I have does not have some of the things you mention it should.
The Digicoll online dictionary through the University of Wisconsin provides an adequate English-Icelandic dictionary that lists the correct cases. The dictionary at islenskordabok.arnastofnun.is/ also works :)
This is so helpful - subscribing for more. Thank you.
This is the first video of yours I watched, I wonder if you would consider doing this content - but with the Icelandic terms, not the English ones?
You are amazing
That was very helpful!
Do you have a certain dictionary you recommend? Thanks.
Thomas Brennan I recommend this online one for English-Icelandic: digicoll.library.wisc.edu/IcelOnline/Search.TEId.html
If you’re interested in other kinds let me know what you’re looking for!
thanks😇😇😇😇😇😇
Thank you, this is very helpful. I have a question though, in the genitive case proper nouns are placed after the object, as shown in the video with this example: "Bakpoki Stefáns". But I came across other examples where the proper noun is placed before the object and is attached to it, which here would be "Stefánsbakpoki". And, I'd like to translate "Sigrún's dance". So, what would the correct translation be? "Dans Sigrúnar" or "Sigrúnardans" ?
examples where proper nouns are before the object and attached to it: "Lokasenna" ("Loki's quarrel"); "Hárbarðsljóð" ("Hárbarðr's poem"), etc
Good question. This represents much more than simple possession; it's actually giving the thing a name. It's mainly only used with place names in Iceland and historical works. So calling it "Sigrúnardans" would be like giving the type of dance a name. Creating names this way is rarely something anyone does on the spot. If you're just talking about the dance that Sigrún performed, you should say "dans Sigrúnar."
Sometimes compound words are created using the genitive, such as "bæjarstjóri," "mayor." These words need to be learned as they are, because there are many ways these words can be derived and they are hard to guess. Let me know if this answers your question.
@@icelandicforforeigners Thank you very much, indeed it makes a lot more sense now. It also explains the names of certain places in Iceland, for example _Guðrúnarlaug,_ which in English would be _Guðrún's pool._
However, in other instances, we have things such as _Chicken Dance_ translated as _Fugladansinn._ If I understand correctly, _dans_ is the nominative case of _dance_ without article, and _dansinn_ is the nominative case with an article. What I'm wondering here is, why _Fugladansinn_ and not _Fugladans_ ? There's no article in English, it's not _ The Chicken Dance_ but _Chicken Dance._ If that rule was applied to _Sigrún's dance_ it would be _Sigrúnardansinn;_ and for _Hárbarðr's poem,_ we would have _Hárbarðsljóðið_ (instead of _Hárbarðsljóð)._ How do we decide when to put an article or not? What is best, _Sigrúnardans_ or _Sigrúnardansinn_ ?
Very good observations. "Fugladans" is probably more akin to "bæjarstjóri." It's not the dance of specific birds, just of birds in general. So the translation for "fugladans" would likely be "a bird dance." So you can make it definite by adding the article. Similarly, bæjarstjóri would translate to "town leader," but because it's not referring to a specific town, it could also be translated as "a town leader" or "leader of a town." So you can add the definite article.
On the other hand, Hárbarðsljóð is already definite because there is a proper noun attached (the name). So it wouldn't make sense to make it definite again. In general I think it's uncommon to create new words by combining names and nouns. That's why I believe the preferred translation would be "dans Sigrúnar." But if you want to combine them, whether or not you use Sigrúnardans or Sigrúnardansinn probably depends on whether it's referring to a specific Sigrún. If you're saying that it's a dance of Sigrúns generally, I would probably use Sigrúnardansinn. If it's the dance of a specific Sigrún, I would say Sigrúnardans.
When in doubt, ask an Icelander :)
@@icelandicforforeigners I see! In this case it's a specific Sigrún. I'm writing a fantasy story about a mythical woman whose reputation and name, Sigrún, traveled through the ages and whose unique fighting skills and techniques have almost become a martial art in itself, that many others have used: "Sigrún's dance". So I think I'll go with _Sigrúnardans._
Thank you very much for taking the time to give a clear and developed explanation, and for your hard work on these videos!
So...basically, this is a matter of rote memorization as to which verb is governed by the dative or accusative case?
Great question! Ultimately, yes. The object of a verb may be in accusative, dative, or genitive, depending on the verb. However, direct objects are more likely to be in accusative and indirect objects are more likely to be in dative. So if you're not sure and have to guess, I would use that as a basis.
The reason I don't state that as the rule is because there are so many exceptions. Like gleyma (to forget), whose direct object is in dative. Or sakna (to miss), whose direct object is in genitive. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of these exceptions. My experience is that learners often believe that direct objects are always in accusative, which isn't true and confuses them later on.
I hope that answers your question!
Is it just coincidental that the majority of the time the direct object will get accusative, and the indirect object towards the end of a sentence will be in dative?
This understanding really has done me justice 70% of the time. I appreciate you! Very helpful vids. I'm about 8 months in and picking things up quickly for a 45 year old guy
Yes it is cool. But what about "instrumental" case? How would I say I CUT DOWN A TREE WITH A SWORD? I think in this case it would be GENETIVE? Like not really the instrumental one but rather a similar concept of it. Right? Like I CUT DOWN A TREE WITH "OF" MY SWORD which means not with a sword itself but with its entity that is related to it as its nature. I am right? :)
Great question! Icelandic has no instrumental case, unlike the Slavic languages. To express instrumentality, Icelandic uses the preposition með followed by the dative case: Ég felldi tré með sverði.
@@icelandicforforeigners you are a good person. Thank you for maintaining both side feedbacks
Ég elska þig!!
Sömuleiðis!
1:32 That's not exactly right. German speakers will be familiar with these words because German uses them too (Nominativ, Akkusativ, Dativ, Genitiv). They aren't arbitrary either:
Nominative comes from Latin "nominativus" which, in a grammatical context, means "main", i. e. the main word of the sentence or the subject.
Accusative has the same roots as "to accuse"; from Latin "ad" (to) + "causa" (cause, matter at hand), i. e. the word that the action at hand applies to.
Dative is also related to "data"; it comes from Latin "do, dare" which means "to give". Data is information that has been given, dative is used for the object/person something is given to.
Genitive has the same roots as English "genitor", it refers to the origin/propriety of something.
Yes, as I said in the video, the names are Latin. I should have been clearer that the names seem arbitrary to English speakers because these words have no meaning in other contexts and most are not familiar with grammatical cases.
I've got 7 cases in my language so this seems pretty easy haha
The principle of declensions
is not the problem; their diversity is.
I agree! But the principle must be learned first ;)
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3:45 Don't say "that "experiences" the verb". In English, something that "experiences" the verb is most likely also a subject, like "*I* like apples". The apple does not experience the liking, it's "I". In a language like Hindi, this type of argument usually uses dative case, not direct case (Hindi is not nom-acc).
People seem to understand what I mean, so I think the video is a success ;) My videos are generally not tailored to viewers who understand the intricacies of morphosyntactic alignment, though I certainly appreciate your observation!
As a fellow swedish speaker, I find it hard to know when to use "mig" and "mér"
I definitely understand why it's confusing. In English we also don't have a distinction. Was the video helpful in explaining that?
As a latin student this no problem haha
No wonder the Danes, Swedes and Norwegians dropped all this and dont even bother to conjugate verbs anymore 😂
Exactly! But where's the fun in that?
Acusative and dative isn't arbitrary. It's a memory hint, but not for English native speakers. To accuse governs accusative and to give (date is give in latin) governs dative.
Thank god I know German. This case system is simple because the two are similar. I quit Polish though because that case system is complete BS nonsense and torture.
Yeah Polish has 7 cases, not to mention Polish masculine nouns are split into animate and inanimate, no other gender in Polish does that, so it becomes loads confusing.
@@Jeszter And it only does that in the accusative which is…an interesting choice.
sorry as a gErman speaker we know what those cases mean
Yes, as I said in the video, the names are Latin. I should have been clearer that the names seem arbitrary to English speakers because those words have no meaning in other contexts and most English speakers are unfamiliar with cases