The more I watch and listen to your RUclips videos, the more practice earned of opening my ears to what you are comveying, and hopefully by extention, may my perspective be broadened.
@@FransAbsil No, I haven't yet. But it's nice to know, and motivating to work toward composition, that the logical tonal palate is broader than my imagination.
@Omid Mashregh-Zamini Thanks for the positive comment. Hopefully this 'making of' video presents useful information about composing a contemporary style music cue.
@Exero, Octatonic scale and epic music, that's a 'marriage made in heaven'. For the application in art music you may want to read Pieter C. van den Toorn 'The Music of Igor Stravinsky' (New Haven, Yale University Press, 1983), where large sections from the Sacre du Printemps are analysed in terms of (harmony derived from) the octatonic scale. Another derivative are the Bela Bartok alpha-beta-gamma chord structures (Erno Lendvai and later publications). It's hard these days to avoid octatonic clichés and find a personal style with this source material.
@JM Gomila glad you liked this video. I hope that viewers will be enticed to experiment with pitch-class sets for writing functional and media music. Thanks for the comment.
@James Rocky Bullin Sometimes YT behaves mysteriously. I could only read the first lines of your message, never open the full text (waited a couple of days for this issue to resolve; it did not happen). I assume you are discussing the tonal references and characteristics in the Pitch-Class Set used in this music. That is a deliberate choice and I am aware of these properties. Even in the PC set context I incorporate such scales and structures to 'soften' the atonal idiom occasionally. Thanks for the comment!
It's funny because for the only music competition I ever took part in I did NOT travel the safe road. The competition was to remix a track from Barry Leitch's soundtrack to the Horizon Chase video game, and I decided to actually alter the time signature, changing an ordinary 4/4 piece into mostly 7/8 with every 8th measure as 8/8 and giving the whole thing a more orchestral instrumental profile. Not only was I not one of the finalists, but looking at the judges score sheet, I actually came in last :D I don't think anyone understood what I was actually trying to do and had probably not ever heard a remix that attempted to re-invent that aspect of the original track before. Admittedly, I had never remixed a track like that before and I don’t consider myself that good at mixing in general, so I knew I wasn’t going to win but I think my performance in the contest suffered even more from not doing what was expected. Live and learn. As usual, your music was really great and I would not be upset that you didn't win. Your videos and approach to music continue to amaze and be a source of inspiration to me as I learn more about Schillinger and other less-used compositional techniques!
Thanks for sharing your experience. I guess there is a market for a new DAW plugin that uses artificial intelligence to detect atonal music and stop it. In order to prevent AMSS (Atonal Music Stress Syndrome) with composers and listeners. My Nika Albi score then still has a glorious future as an element in the deep learning training set ;-)
The new music Tonal Scale is as thus: 12 7 5 2 3 : 1 4 5 9 14 Not 12 with 7 & 5 BUT 14 with 9 & 5 [2^(1/14)] These are the Tonal Scales growing from f (by cycles of fifths): All Scales build from the first mode: equivalent to Lydian f White keys are = & Black keys are | 12 with 7 & 5 [2^(1/12)] =|=|=|==|=|= {1,8,3,10,5,12,7,2,9,4,11,6} 1thru7are= 8thru12are| 7 with 5 & 2 [2^(1/7)] ===|==| {1,3,5,7,2,4,6} 1thru5are= 6&7are| 5 with 2 & 3 [2^(1/5)] =||=| {1,3,5,2,4} 1&2are= 3thru5are| Now evolving up the other end 5 with 4 & 1 [2^(1/5)] ==|== {1,3,5,2,4} 1thru4are= 5is| 9 with 5 & 4 [2^(1/9)] =|=|=|==| {1,8,3,7,5,9,2,4,6} 1thru5are= 6thru9are| 14 with 9 & 5 [2^(1/14)] =|=|===|=|===| {1,12,3,14,5,7,9,11,2,13,4,6,8,10} 1thru9are= 10thru14are| Joseph Yasser is the actual originator of the realization, that scales develop by cycles of fifths. www.seraph.it/blog_files/623ba37cafa0d91db51fa87296693fff-175.html www.academia.edu/4163545/A_Theory_of_Evolving_Tonality_by_Joseph_Yasser www.musanim.com/Yasser/ The chromatic scale we use today is divided by 2^(1/12) twelfth root of two Instead of moving to the next higher: the 19 tone scale 2^(1/19) nineteenth root of two I decided to go all the way down and back up the other end: So 12 - 7 is 5 & 7 - 5 is 2 & 5 - 2 is 3 Now we enter to the other side: 2 - 3 is (-1)* & 3 - (-1) is 4* & (-1) - 4 is (-5)* & 4 - (-5) is 9* & (-5) - 9 is (-14)* ignoring the negatives we have * 1 4 5 9 14 Just follow the cycles how each scale is weaved together, as shown above. Each scale has its own division within the frequency doubling, therefore the 14 tone scale is 2^(1/14) fourteenth root of two
@Avery Sax An impressive comment, I must admit, and it took me quite a while to grasp what you are stating here (including looking at the sources mentioned). If I understand it correctly it is about various tuning systems, that divide the octave into N steps (N=5,7,12,14) using circles of p5,m3,semitone and 14 steps, that approximate or extend the current set of chromatic pitch-classes. What triggered your comment probably is the remarkable similarity with the set T1(5-Z17)=0,2(=14),4,5,9. I get the symbol notation for b/w keys, but are you sure you have not swapped the symbols in the cycle of 5ths around PC-class F (where, 6,1,8,3,10 yield black keys)? The Yasser system is based on 14 steps, the Huygens-Fokker on 19, etc. I guess the interesting fact is that the former develops a reasoning system for alternative and modern-future harmony systems. This all goes beyond my limited and pragmatic approach to writing atonal film scores. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
I keep coming back to this to Learn more. Pitch Set Use is a Solid Building Block of many John Williams cues. I Have a question. When you use the "Octatonic melody" you are breaking the set right ( with the Ab )...?
@Ed Buller, thanks for returning to the channel. You must have been studying this example very closely, noticing the Ab in the melody at 10:26 in the video! When I introduce the melody at 7:46 it is based on the transposed set T1(5-Z17)={1,2,4,5,9}={c#,d,e,f,a}. Later in the score I use another transposition T4(5-Z17)={4,5,7,8,0}={e,f,g,ab,c}. The combination of these transposed sets has common pitches and adds a few 'blue notes', like the ab in the high woodwinds. Hopefully this answers the question. Good luck with your own PC-Set compositions.
@@FransAbsil ahh...so the aflat comes from the transposed set. Ok great thank you. So...is every pitch here from the set and it's transposition ?......or are there "blue notes" ?
@Ed Buller, The opening measures demonstrate the juxtaposition of T1(5-Z17) and T4(5-Z17). All 5 pitches from the latter are distributed over the orchestral sections. Each set has its 'octatonic cell' (e.g., 1-2-4-5 for T1), the pair T1-T4 extends the octatonic scale to (1-2-4-5-7-8)={c#-d-e-f-g-ab}. That leaves the pitch-classs A from T1 and C from T4 as notes outside the scale. The 'blue note' effect is achieved through using subsets from this combination such as {c#,e,a,c}=A(#9) or {a,c,f,ab}=F(#9), chord structures with sharp 9 and dominant 7th omitted.
@@FransAbsil Ok that makes sense thank you. I know a lot of this is analysis after the fact but I think so much Bartok has (0,1,4,) Miraculous Mandarin for one. I think john williams uses these techniques at the same time as more tonal tricks. planing and modal stuff......all in the same cue.....
The more I watch and listen to your RUclips videos, the more practice earned of opening my ears to what you are comveying, and hopefully by extention, may my perspective be broadened.
Have you been encouraged to experiment with composing using Pitch-Class Sets? Were you satisfied with the results?
@@FransAbsil No, I haven't yet. But it's nice to know, and motivating to work toward composition, that the logical tonal palate is broader than my imagination.
Amazing video, and love your sense of humor!
@Omid Mashregh-Zamini Thanks for the positive comment. Hopefully this 'making of' video presents useful information about composing a contemporary style music cue.
Gotta love the octatonic scale.
@Exero, Octatonic scale and epic music, that's a 'marriage made in heaven'. For the application in art music you may want to read Pieter C. van den Toorn 'The Music of Igor Stravinsky' (New Haven, Yale University Press, 1983), where large sections from the Sacre du Printemps are analysed in terms of (harmony derived from) the octatonic scale. Another derivative are the Bela Bartok alpha-beta-gamma chord structures (Erno Lendvai and later publications). It's hard these days to avoid octatonic clichés and find a personal style with this source material.
@@FransAbsil Thanks for your input! Interesting that you note octatonic clichés can even exist.
Enjoyed the clear and fun description/analysis of your piece.
@JM Gomila glad you liked this video. I hope that viewers will be enticed to experiment with pitch-class sets for writing functional and media music. Thanks for the comment.
@@FransAbsil Definitely. I myself have used aspects of this in some of my works.
@James Rocky Bullin Sometimes YT behaves mysteriously. I could only read the first lines of your message, never open the full text (waited a couple of days for this issue to resolve; it did not happen). I assume you are discussing the tonal references and characteristics in the Pitch-Class Set used in this music. That is a deliberate choice and I am aware of these properties. Even in the PC set context I incorporate such scales and structures to 'soften' the atonal idiom occasionally. Thanks for the comment!
Great as always.
Thanks for the continual support.
wonderful. Thank you so much
You're welcome. Thanks for the positive feedback.
It's funny because for the only music competition I ever took part in I did NOT travel the safe road. The competition was to remix a track from Barry Leitch's soundtrack to the Horizon Chase video game, and I decided to actually alter the time signature, changing an ordinary 4/4 piece into mostly 7/8 with every 8th measure as 8/8 and giving the whole thing a more orchestral instrumental profile. Not only was I not one of the finalists, but looking at the judges score sheet, I actually came in last :D I don't think anyone understood what I was actually trying to do and had probably not ever heard a remix that attempted to re-invent that aspect of the original track before. Admittedly, I had never remixed a track like that before and I don’t consider myself that good at mixing in general, so I knew I wasn’t going to win but I think my performance in the contest suffered even more from not doing what was expected. Live and learn.
As usual, your music was really great and I would not be upset that you didn't win. Your videos and approach to music continue to amaze and be a source of inspiration to me as I learn more about Schillinger and other less-used compositional techniques!
Thanks for sharing your experience. I guess there is a market for a new DAW plugin that uses artificial intelligence to detect atonal music and stop it. In order to prevent AMSS (Atonal Music Stress Syndrome) with composers and listeners. My Nika Albi score then still has a glorious future as an element in the deep learning training set ;-)
The new music Tonal Scale is as thus: 12 7 5 2 3 : 1 4 5 9 14
Not 12 with 7 & 5 BUT 14 with 9 & 5 [2^(1/14)]
These are the Tonal Scales growing from f (by cycles of fifths):
All Scales build from the first mode: equivalent to Lydian f
White keys are = & Black keys are |
12 with 7 & 5 [2^(1/12)] =|=|=|==|=|= {1,8,3,10,5,12,7,2,9,4,11,6}
1thru7are= 8thru12are|
7 with 5 & 2 [2^(1/7)] ===|==| {1,3,5,7,2,4,6} 1thru5are= 6&7are|
5 with 2 & 3 [2^(1/5)] =||=| {1,3,5,2,4} 1&2are= 3thru5are|
Now evolving up the other end
5 with 4 & 1 [2^(1/5)] ==|== {1,3,5,2,4} 1thru4are= 5is|
9 with 5 & 4 [2^(1/9)] =|=|=|==| {1,8,3,7,5,9,2,4,6} 1thru5are= 6thru9are|
14 with 9 & 5 [2^(1/14)] =|=|===|=|===| {1,12,3,14,5,7,9,11,2,13,4,6,8,10}
1thru9are= 10thru14are|
Joseph Yasser is the actual originator of the realization,
that scales develop by cycles of fifths.
www.seraph.it/blog_files/623ba37cafa0d91db51fa87296693fff-175.html
www.academia.edu/4163545/A_Theory_of_Evolving_Tonality_by_Joseph_Yasser
www.musanim.com/Yasser/
The chromatic scale we use today is divided by 2^(1/12) twelfth root of two
Instead of moving to the next higher: the 19 tone scale 2^(1/19) nineteenth root of two
I decided to go all the way down and back up the other end:
So 12 - 7 is 5 & 7 - 5 is 2 & 5 - 2 is 3
Now we enter to the other side:
2 - 3 is (-1)* & 3 - (-1) is 4* & (-1) - 4 is (-5)* & 4 - (-5) is 9* & (-5) - 9 is (-14)*
ignoring the negatives we have * 1 4 5 9 14
Just follow the cycles how each scale is weaved together, as shown above.
Each scale has its own division within the frequency doubling,
therefore the 14 tone scale is 2^(1/14) fourteenth root of two
@Avery Sax An impressive comment, I must admit, and it took me quite a while to grasp what you are stating here (including looking at the sources mentioned). If I understand it correctly it is about various tuning systems, that divide the octave into N steps (N=5,7,12,14) using circles of p5,m3,semitone and 14 steps, that approximate or extend the current set of chromatic pitch-classes. What triggered your comment probably is the remarkable similarity with the set T1(5-Z17)=0,2(=14),4,5,9. I get the symbol notation for b/w keys, but are you sure you have not swapped the symbols in the cycle of 5ths around PC-class F (where, 6,1,8,3,10 yield black keys)? The Yasser system is based on 14 steps, the Huygens-Fokker on 19, etc. I guess the interesting fact is that the former develops a reasoning system for alternative and modern-future harmony systems. This all goes beyond my limited and pragmatic approach to writing atonal film scores. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
🤯
I keep coming back to this to Learn more. Pitch Set Use is a Solid Building Block of many John Williams cues. I Have a question. When you use the "Octatonic melody" you are breaking the set right ( with the Ab )...?
@Ed Buller, thanks for returning to the channel. You must have been studying this example very closely, noticing the Ab in the melody at 10:26 in the video! When I introduce the melody at 7:46 it is based on the transposed set T1(5-Z17)={1,2,4,5,9}={c#,d,e,f,a}. Later in the score I use another transposition T4(5-Z17)={4,5,7,8,0}={e,f,g,ab,c}. The combination of these transposed sets has common pitches and adds a few 'blue notes', like the ab in the high woodwinds. Hopefully this answers the question. Good luck with your own PC-Set compositions.
@@FransAbsil ahh...so the aflat comes from the transposed set. Ok great thank you. So...is every pitch here from the set and it's transposition ?......or are there "blue notes" ?
@Ed Buller, The opening measures demonstrate the juxtaposition of T1(5-Z17) and T4(5-Z17). All 5 pitches from the latter are distributed over the orchestral sections. Each set has its 'octatonic cell' (e.g., 1-2-4-5 for T1), the pair T1-T4 extends the octatonic scale to (1-2-4-5-7-8)={c#-d-e-f-g-ab}. That leaves the pitch-classs A from T1 and C from T4 as notes outside the scale. The 'blue note' effect is achieved through using subsets from this combination such as {c#,e,a,c}=A(#9) or {a,c,f,ab}=F(#9), chord structures with sharp 9 and dominant 7th omitted.
@@FransAbsil Ok that makes sense thank you. I know a lot of this is analysis after the fact but I think so much Bartok has (0,1,4,) Miraculous Mandarin for one. I think john williams uses these techniques at the same time as more tonal tricks. planing and modal stuff......all in the same cue.....