Is it better to have a THICKER radiator or PUSH/PULL??
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- Which configuration is cooler?
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Is it better to have a THICKER radiator or PUSH/PULL??
• Is it better to have a...
Bitwit
/ bitwit
*T H I C C* is the only option.
For anything.
*T H I C C* Is life.
I had a feeling this meme was gonna show up somewhere. *facepalm*
Just a little bit of fun, my dude.
someone explain this pls haha
What thicc means?
Mhm your profil pic makes it even better
The best is: Thick with push pull
You mean T H I C C ?
no, the best is 240mm or 280mm
Thick 420 rad in push pull mounted in a Liquid Nitrogen generator.
Agent_Blackwing or just a full custom loop running on nitrogen
Or Liquid Hydrogen....(the coldest substance on earth) -252.58 degrees Celsius and might as well hook that up to a Fusion reactor cooler.... If you are going to have that much Hydrogen why not use it for both.
One big advantage to push pull in a mini itx case is if you lave limited space for fans it improves overall airflow.
Not having your beautiful face on screen and getting shaky camera work is the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals, maybe ever.
Nice cooler but will it allow me to overclock my RGB lighting?
Xxbest_turtle thw RGB lightning overcloks itself
HA original
can i overclock my psu
lol
Mingue Kwak can i run my rgb lights at 4k 60 fps?
why not get the best of both worlds, and get a thick push/pull config?
Because it usually ends up hitting the CPU block or something :P
Space is probably the limiting factor. I'm sure a full tower e-atx build would have the space for it.
i did
William skagen These replace the CPU cooler ..
I always go for thicc
A larger radiator will allow more liquid to be pushed into the radiator and therefore cooled more volume more quickly and regularly I would think. You should have also for the heck of it, done push-pull on the H80i to see how much better that would do. Maybe an update video later on.
doesn't matter though if the airflow is decreased enaugh thru the thick rad for the push pull setup of the same overall thickness to outperform the thicker rad. More liquid yes though over time the liquid will get saturated.
Well...
the question is which configuration RUNS cooler and which one IS cooler
Hi Kyle A very good video. You are scratching the surface of a very deep topic. This evaluation goes to the crux of Thermodynamics. Temperature is the flow of energy. In this case heat. The faster the cooling system can pull energy away from the CPU the lower the temperature the CPU will operate at. As the computer folks found out over the last 10 years you can transfer more energy to a fixed volume of water compared to the same volume of air. The exact same principle holds in automotive engines 1960s and 70s vintage VW Beetles were all air cooled. Even Porsches of that vintage had air cooled engines. Automotive Manufacturers knew that air cooling robbed engines of power but were reticent to venture in to water cooling fearing the extra weight, complexity and maintenance of water cooled engines would be viewed as liabilities. One thing lead to another and a few brave souls perfected water cooled engines gaining a substantial increase in power and efficiency and proved themselves reliable. If you want a maintenance free operation for your computer go air cooled. It is as close as you can get to maintenance free operation. The only thing that can wear out is the bearings in your fan. If you are planning to keep your machine for 10 years or longer air cooling is the way to go. If you are a Gamer with High Cooling needs that turns his computer over every 3 to 4 years go with water cooling. I've noticed popular evaluations of Air Cooling Systems have short changed the Oversized Air Cooling Systems like the Thermalright Macho B/HR22 and the Silverstone Technologies Heligon02 to the point that they are not readily stocked and difficult to obtain. If you put a fan on any of those free air coolers and they become a beast. Returning to your demo the larger the volume of water held by the radiator the more energy from the CPU can be transferred to it. It therefore follows that barring a total breakdown of the fan system the Thicker and Higher Volume Radiator will keep the CPU cooler.
I have the older H80 with two Noctuas in push pull. Still nice and cool and super quiet...
video starts at 3:44 THANK ME LATER!!
ApoShow its thank* not thanks
you have right bro.I changed it!!
If you're not here for Kyle, with the video content being a bonus, then you're not a true fan. Imo.
Thx !!!
It's later, and i thank you. Still the first three minutes are cool
one thing about AIO from my experience running push+pull: is that at some point the software monitoring temps and fan speed will tell the fans to ramp up when it gets hot, but its only effective to a point, then its just spinning faster making noise and not cooling much.
so i suggest to every AIO owner to make their own fan curves cuz the default ones are usually not that good
I think you forgot to enable the shaky cam filter.
So much shaking is making me dizzy.
Mingue Kwak how do you type with caps lock on? Do you even comment?
WHERE MY WARP STABILIZERS AT SON
I have the H80i v2 and it has trouble keeping my 6700k overclocked to 4.5Ghz under 80c on warm days when its under full load. I am definitely moving up to 120mm asap.
When I saw push/pull, I thought about my past two workouts.
HuhWhat really wondering if you are referring to a workout-split of upper body push on 1 day and upper body pull on the other, or masturbation
HuhWhat PPL? That's my current program haha
After load, I would predict the h80i
would also pull the coolant back down to ambient more efficiently. :)
Thanks for testing the two options "side by side", proving the theory.
But... minor quibble... Fanless coolers do not store the heat in the fin stack. :)
They dissipate the heat from the fin stack. :)
it would have been nice to see them run at their stock configurations as well, for comparison.. meaning the H60 with 1 fan in push, then in pull.. and the H80 with 2 fans in push+pull
The H80 completely destroys the H60, by 12~15 degrees. H80 is obviously not as good as a 240mm radiator, but for a 120mm it's almost there due to the thickness. Best option for builds that a watercooler can be installed only in the back of the case. Pretty much a waste installing it in the front or top, as it would be better to get a H100x instead which is about the same price.
Simulates a Mini ITX AIO-cooled Build on an Open Test Bench! 👏👏👏
Have been using the H80i for about 6 months now, in push-pull config.
My Core i7 4790 (non-k edition, was too broke at the time lol), at "idle" (regular non-gaming usage of ~5-10% cpu load), with all speeds set to Quiet in Corsair Link (so case fans, AIO fans, GPU fans and AIO pump speeds), my CPU runs at 25-30 degrees Celsius, without emitting a single damn noise.
It was semi-complicated to install in a mid-size tower with a full-ATX board, especially trying to cable manage everything, but in the end, the results are worth it.
Just bought the h60 a week ago great cooler. Using Arctic Silver 5 great temps with them both.
I am excited to see the results of your studio hunting! Great video as always!
Personally, I changed from a H-60 in push pull to a Noctua NH-12 air cooler with one fan. It literally blew the doors off of the H60 with 15C+ Temp drops at idle and load. I was very surprised to see this likely won't be going back to entry level AIO's again.
3:47 to skip the scubling jargon
H60 would have to be made of copper/gold for its thermal dissipation to match the surface area of the H80. Same reasoning as to why big pancakes cook faster than smaller ones.
so basically we found that push/pull cannot overcome the limitations of a radiator that, all other things being equal, has a dual core over a single core. I feel, however, that you could have validated push/pull thin rad vs push only/pull only thick rad, if you had also put in a push only/pull only thin rad. This would demonstrate the advantages and disadvantages of both sides, while also showing us how well thin rad single fan works on a cpu known to be hot.
TLDR: single fan rad thick beats out dual fan thin, but what about dual fan thick rad? what about single fan thin rad?
dual fan thick radiator outperforms single fan, as there is a higher static pressure requirement for a larger radiator. The second fan allows both to run at a lower RPM to generate the same or greater pressure while also moving more air, thereby improving cooling performance and reducing noise. A single fan on a thin radiator is unlikely to be a disadvantage over the dual fan because of the fact that a thinner fin stack requires less pressure, eliminating the need for the second fan.
Literally had a radiator ad before the video
Hue Jayness It would make sense since those ads should target people looking at radiator videos.
just bought H80i v2, notice that there are four holes on the side of the fan frame that are used to secure rubber grommets, which is not provide with H80i v2. With leaking air through these holes, I suspect it will lose some static pressure.
I would like to see the effect of running two 30 mm radiators with the fans between them vs a single 60mm radiator with the same fans and fpi on the radiators. Being careful to make sure you have them set up for counter flow cooling.
Push pull helps, which is why I always run push pull, but not as much as a thicker rad with one good fan. The push pull can achieve better temps quieter, that is why I prefer it.
Alright, now do push/pull on the H80I and see where that gets ya! :P
pretty cool and interesting video.
what i'd liked to see is the h60 with only one fan also being tested and how much of a difference that extra fan makes. also considering that it comes with only one fan.
I'd rather have a T H I C C radiator
keep in mind some H80's have a 3 month life span if you get unlucky
Nice to still see the h60 still around.
This does make sense because the heat exchanger surface area is much larger on the h80i. Even though it has slower airflow, it doesn't really matter because surface area cools a lot faster than airspeed
the h80i was worth it for me just to have corsair link relapsed my h60 with an h80i for my 6700k and added another h80i to my fx8350 htpc
I have a H80i v2 in a push pull configuration on my 8700k. It works great!
Where you put your h80i? Front or rear of the case?
Fan noise isn't doubled if you use 2x as many fans - it's a logarithmic relation, not linear. Plus, with push-pull you can have a condiderably lower RPM and THIS reduces noise to a large extent.
With thicker rads, the water slows down more, allowing more time for the water to transfer heat while also having more surface area to further improve the transfer. Win win.
Finally found the exact video I'm looking for
Oh oh now that you're a big time youtube builder, the rest of us are now small builders? Lol 😜
The thin radiator has a smaller surface area so it can't dissipate the heat into the air as fast as the thicker radiator can, thing to remember is the fan is pushing the hot air around the fins away replacing it with cooler air that can absorb the heat hence why a cooler room is better for a pc.
The H80I V2 with just a push fan, since the pull didnt fit in my small case, keeps my 1600X overclocked @ 3.9ghz under 65C under full load. I live in a very dusty area so it also helps to keep the dust build up down. i used to have to clean the fan cooler on my 1055T once or twice a year becuase it would build up so much dust in the fins.
Great video, one thing though. Regarding 6:06 having 1 fan instead of 2 doesn't result in half noise, more like 10-15% quiter
I actually have the H80i V2 with 2 fans on my system, and at 100% fan speed playing ghost recon wildlands my i7-7700k running at 4.5ghz and 1.265v doesn't touch 60. I say this cooler is pretty nice and I love it. the average temp is 52-54c
This is exactly what I was looking for! Thank you! Trying to decide what to put into my alienware auroa r11 the h80i with one fan vs the aio that came with it and adding a fan.
I'd be more interested in these tests at lower rpm fans. 30 - 50 -70 - 100. I would expect the single fan setup to show a much more drastic temp difference as that fan has a lot more static pressure to overcome, where as the push pulls setup has roughly half the static pressure to overcome.
I don't think a push-pull design will necessarily help with flow rate through the radiator, especially for the thinner H60 radiator. With the thicker H80 push-pull fans might help cut back on the frictional bottleneck a bit, but on the thinner H60 with less of a frictional consideration so I doubt the second fan is helping all that much.
Might be worth testing to see if push-pull really helps.
i know this is an old video and getting old, but i almost throw up of sickness with the dizzy cam.. no hard feeling mate. its a good content
Two points:
1 - Two fans are only noisier than one fan if you ramp them up at 100%, two will obviously be noisier, but you also have a sh*t load more airflow by using two fans. The thing about using two fans instead of one is that they two fans can spin at much lower rpm to achieve the same airflow as a single fan, thus, REDUCING noise, and not increasing it.
2 - If the point of this comparo was to simulate a H80i being installed in a size-limited case (this, being able to utilize only one fan due to the radiator's increased thickness) - which I think is a really valid point, don't get me wrong - it should have been noted by the reviewer that the H80i v2 has really stiff hoses, and it also lacks swiveling connections at the pump, thus, making it VERY hard to be installed in small mITX cases, in some cases it will actually be impossible to fit, even if the case DOES have space for the radiator. The fitment will be made impossible due to the hose design Corsair has selected for coolers like the H80i. I do say this by personal experience. I have recently acquired a H100i GTX (same pump and hose design as the H80i GT/V2) to fit in a Sharkoon QB One mITX case and the fit was just plain impossible. The hoses wouldn't allow it. I would have had exactly the same problem with a H80i (or even worse, considering it's added thickness when compared to H100 series).
My solution to the problem? I got the H100i GTX out and put my older H105 (which ironically has a thicker 38mm rad as compared to the GTX's slim 30mm rad) in the rig and it fit plain easily and perfectly. No force required, just swivel the hoses and the pump in a favorable position and the rad naturally sits in place. Hose design makes a HUGE difference for SFF cases.
So, to sum it up, even though the H80i single fanned can perform better then a push-pull H60 while occupying the same rad volume, most of the people won't be able to fit a H80 in a mITX case.. not because of the rad thickness, but because of the hose design and layout that corsair has selected for these AIO's. Only the largest mITX's can accomodate these coolers, any smaller mITX is a no-no. The H60 (and similar designs, like the H55, H75, etc) can easily fit in SFF because of their flexible hoses and swiveling connectors.
I use Push/Pull fans so that I can run each at a slower rpm to achieve the same temp as a single fan running at a higher rpm, but quieter.
This seems pretty logical, since the larger radiator contains more coolant and so has more thermal mass, smoothing out the temperature rises from spikes in power consumption.
I've heard the main benefit of push/pull is that you can run the fans quieter. At least that's what Jayz says!
The reason to do push pull is so you can turn the fan speed way down and still have great cooling
My setup runs the fans around 400 rpm (unfortunately they don't go slower) and it runs around 50c while running prime95 for several hours
And it's reasonably silent
Honestly...I'm really glad you made this video. If you play any kind of cpu demanding games I recommend going with like a H110i equivalent or better in an atx form factor especially if you're rocking an AMD cpu. I've had to do some pretty trick stuff with my H80i V2 to keep high temps at bay. One thing I've certainly noticed with the H80i V2 as well is that the heat really seems to build and retain in the area of the inlet/outlet reservoir. Haven't really figured that one out yet as I haven't opened the closed loop system to investigate. The stock fans are pretty good though as they run pushing like 72 cfm or something like that. Ergo... for overclocking or for cpu heavy workloads...get the ice bucket or otherwise set your windows power settings to power saver mode and keep the cpu running at base frequency this works just fine and can be relatively quiet with the fans running on standard. Hopefully this is good anecdote for the prospective consumer.
Can you do one more like this where the h60 uses just push or just pull?
More finns/thicker radiator is almost always more noise/temp efficient, thats the reason why Palits/Gainwards 3 Slot heatsink 2 100mm fans config goes so well on their graphicscards.
I like how most of your vids almost always seem impromptu, mainly the reason why I stayed subscribed and part of the notification squad.
you go kyle! (hope to see more of your drunk vids, bonus of course if you're with wifey for extra fun)
You don't need push pull on the thinner radiators because there's not as much obstruction to the airflow, so there's little or no benefit to the extra fan. Push pull will see better performance improvement on a thicker fan.
Interesting tests, but having the results graphed live would help better determining a winner. Graphs are awesome. You might even say they're saucy
You should consider doing a video with the same set ups but at low fan speeds for people looking for silent systems. Noise level compared to cooling performance.
You should do a complete pun related series. That'd be cool
Specific heat capacity.
Larger rads have more fluid and so hold more heat for a given temperature.
You should work in Hollywood, your shaky cam game is on point !
This video is three years old now...so no one probably reading this. I've had multiple systems, all water cooled. The best systems, defined as quiet, low maintenance, and effective use thick, 240MM or bigger radiators in push configuration. Push/Pull is effective but reliant on good pressure rated fans. They are more difficult to install and harder to maintain. If you're going to go with push/pull, go with 140MM as not only is there more surface area/volume but the larger fans can spin at lower RPMs for noise reduction. If you're going to run 120MM fans, go with 240-360MM. You'll thank me later.
good vid kyle i had always wondered about this ...bring on the studio updates !
Would love to have seen the h80 with two fans as a comparison.
In my mind theory two fans will never scale well, when going through the same area
Value here would be the H80 if you can't fit two fans on the rad, then use the extra fan in the front of the case, connected via corsair link... with both fans bumping up speed (and noise) as temps get hotter.
Good video but I would like to point out that your comment about the fan noise being effectively halved by only using one fan is actually wrong. its more likely that you would reduce the noise that the cooler produces by 1 to 4 decibels.
thicker radiators will help cooling. Ask any car guy that is into performance. Same applies to anything liquid cooled.
I wonder if you have a push pull configuration on a thick radiator have better gains.
PULL is the only effective configuration unless you use a 2-3 inch shroud. Fans in push causes a dead spot in the center zone because of the fan motor that blocks the airflow. If you have a confined building space, such as an itx build you should always use PULL! Then the rad array itself becomes the "back shroud" and there is no dead spot. If you don't believe me just check your dust filter after running a push configuration for a few weeks. No dust accumulates in the center zone because air does not properly pass through the fan motor.
You need to do the same test at lower RPM on those fans, at some point the single fan wont be able to push the air through the thicc rad
Ideally a thick rad with good push pull fans is best. You get great static pressure and more source for heat dissipation. I don't find the SFF of the mITX interesting enough to buy in to it. Prefer ATX or mATX at the least.
going by memory here - I have the h80i and have tried push pull AND single fan (bc I had to replace the stock fans due to coil whining), and I don't really notice a difference. Going to guess that push/pull gives slightly better performance but CBA to empirically verify.
Maybe you could try a thicker 120mm rad like the h80 vs a thinner but wider rad like the h90, to test to see if changing width or thickness improves cooling the most. I'm thinking the h90 might cool a bit better, cause while it might have a little bit less surface area, more of that surface area is being hit by cool fresh air, instead of a thicker rad possible losing cooling efficiency the further the air has to travel through it and heat up.
Perfect time to refresh, noice
nathanias sup?
More surface area is usually the best option.
Your test bench is worth more than my entire pc....
T H I C C R A D S 😩👌
This was super interesting and ended up being useful for me!
With 1 more fan the noiose is not double. If you have three 20 dB fans you don't have 60 dB but something like 25-30
Nice test Kyle! I was wondering this exact thing :D
I personally love my h80i v2, huge difference in cooling in my personal opinion compared to my old h60 and especially a stock intel fan. The only con in my opinion is how thick the h80 is. It would block one of my fans if i were to mount it in the rear of the phanteks 400s
In my opinion, AIO´s are not worth the Money.
I´ve got a i5 7600k, also at 4,8GHz, in a Node 304, cooled by a Noctua NH-U14S
and it performs like the H60 in push pull.
With the Noctua i dont need 100% fanspeed, 800 to 900rpm is enough.
Denny S. I half agree I don't think any 120mm AIO is worth it. But the 240-360 AIOs can be worth it. If my case can't use at least a 240mm AIO I'll stick with air cooling. My Noctua DH14 beats pretty much any 120mm AIO while being super quiet.
XxViciousxX Yes you are right, the bigger AIO's offers more power but they are to expensive I think.
Recently I hab a Alphacool Eisberg here and was impressed, but it was double the price of the Noctua and only performed max 20 percent better, but not quiter.
btw these AIO's was tested in a open build, I have these temps in a small and closed case.
Denny S. Yeah the bigger AIO are definitely pretty pricey. My main PC has a EK Predator 240 that was $150. Looks great cools better then most AIO while being much much quieter. But it didn't beat my DH14 that bad considering I only paid $30 bucks for my DH14. Now my DH14 is cooling my Xeon in my secondary pc which is basically a glass oven. But the DH14 still keeps that Xeon from overheating. Noctua is still my go to for air cooling.
Denny S. IndustrialPPC or Redux would like a word with you. They are very nice looking fans without the ugly brown.
bumperxx1 than go with some other fans or coolers. Noctua isn't the only good manufacturer out there. ;-) AIO's don't look always better, some have ugly tubes, other have ugly pumps.
For me a big piece of metal looks way better.
Please do a comparison of stock amd coolers vs $20-$30 aftermarket coolers vs $50-$60 aftermarket coolers vs $60+ coolers and give a price per overclock at the end. Would be interesting to see the difference and if its really worth the high cost of high-end coolers
weez82 somebody reviewed the stealth RGB the one that comes with the 1700 against the hyper 212 Evo and the 212 had better temperatures.
Doesn't help that corsair doesn't list the fpi of either rad. Lots of factors matter such as rads of the same thickness react to the same fan speeds or number of fans quite differently. This comparison is most likely only relevant in comparing these exact two setups as they are.
"Small builders" haha, lmao, that was funny!
Makes sense. Thicker rad would have more surface area to dissipate heat.
Slap a Noctua Chromax NF-F12 on there, i found corsair does not put that great of fans on their coolers. My H90 with a NF-A14 dropped 5-8°C in a pull/exhaust setup.
That's a *significant* thermal drop.
nice! my H60 push/pull with corsair SP120's. I chose it just for aesthetics I used a cool Ryzen sticker that I made. performance is pretty good!
Banu Merchantman in the background, heck yeah! BMM!!! BMM!!!
i got a MITX build in a BF prodigy and got H80i V1 in push pull on exhaust getting pretty good results
2 fans is not double the noise, sound perception is not linear, is actually logarithmic
Studio Hunting? just get a unit in the same place Jay and Austin are, just make it one building full of tech tubers.
Air cooling makes it super easy. Bigger is always better. But then again, that doesn't make for good RUclips videos... :D
Pow Bam Zing he is talking about tiny builds so it's not like you can smash in a huge air cooler in a tiny case. but if you have room huge air coolers are great. I am running a phantek ph-tc14pe my self ,she's not as pretty as an aio cooler but the reliability sells it for me
Cryorig C1? Cooler Master GeminII series? Noctua LH-L9x65? Be Quiet Shadow Rock LP?
Granted they're not huge, but the bigger is better rule still applies. Ah, I'm partial to air anyways, water does not belong in computers. Although it does look cool. :)
a aio 120mm will beat a tiny air cooler like the Noctua LH-L9x65. but i am with you on that I love air coolers as i don't have to worry that a leak might wreck my very expensive pc for 1-2c difference over an aio. but in some cases like the tiny cases where its a tiny air cooler like you mentioned or a aio there can be a bigger bump. but to me its not worth having to worry about it.
But if you have push/pull fans you can make them spin slower and therefore it makes less noise
Hey Kyle, it's Bryan aka Maraksot. Thanks for the video, very interesting to see the difference. It definitely makes sense that the radiator with the greater surface area has better heat dissipation. Sooo.... just checking in with ya to see if you and Paul have given any more thought to selling the Awesome Hardware Sword Fight shirts? I'd be willing to pay for the first run of shirts so that you guys don't have to shoulder that cost. If they sell well then we can talk about having more printed and on the flip side if they don't end up selling then no harm done. :)
Nice, my experience has been more rad more cooling performance, as long as the fans can cool the rad enough. Also nice Attack on Titan shirt.
I use H80i v2 (only push) and threw the other fan as a exhaust. Temps are under 60 on my 6600K OC to 4.5Ghz.
Thank you, also exactly what i was looking for
4:24 I thought that was background music
Right? his neighbor most me talented playing synths-like sounds on a drum set.
At least he was in time with the music on the video lol !
Testing on a bench is NOT the same as a case environment. Once all the parts are inside a case that is all put together, the ambient temps are way different as is air flow paths. Some coolers work better than others once inside a case. Some don't.
As many women said 'a lot depends on the thickness'.