A conversation with Richard Heinberg and David Holmgren, unpacking and reflecting on the impact of The Limits to Growth Report some 50 years after its initial publication.
Thankyou so much for this - I love so much how David diffuses the negativity of the doom potential of questions such as the population question and offers the promise of the better world we can step into. So grateful to have him as an elder in this movement. Lots of ideas to think about and share from this. Gratitude to all involved.
Very informative! I just started Geoff Lawton's online PDC, and it was revealing to find that LTG was part of the impetus to create permaculture. I read the LTG 30 Year Update about a decade ago. Keep up the great work!
Father here the creator. Die off of the devil is no concern. That has and is happened. Thank you very important. Us are not the devil. Woke up like yesterday. Topic is important.
Mentioning composting is most important, I think the top element of all, other than harvesting rainwater in an arid climate. I am a big time composter! Compost rainwater and fencing!
Contribute here. Their is on earth . Devil strong holds ?? City old name today's name area etc. Since turkey Syria quake recent. Not enough to go around devil strong holds lose. New to us here. They don't have much of chance success that you foresee.
Heard understood. Dark. Yep got picture. Surprisingly no faith in the devil. Interior cathedral of many souls Surprisingly only too dark dreary drab. Not what you would expect from the real devil on the way here and gone quickly.
Fyi see on us debt clock real time. Payroll taxes most say social security. Investment makes the grade done. Those tax. Phrases. Goodbye dinasours? Detective s??
In 1798 Thomas Malthus wrote 'An Essay on the Principle of Population' describing the discrepancy between geometric population growth (2,4,8,16,32) and the arithmetic addition of agricultural land (1,2,3,4,5,6). He concluded, with apparently infallible logic - that people would outstrip food production and starve. That didn't happen, because people invented tractors, fertilisers, trains and refrigeration - technologies that multiplied resources; such that now, more people are better fed than ever before in history. The exact same thesis is presented in Limits to Growth - published in 1972; and similarly, it is only valid for a specific technological state. In 1982, NASA produced a report detailing experiments proving the viability of harnessing Magma Energy; and estimated the size of the US magma energy resource (alone) at a minimum of 50,000 quadrillion btu. (quads) Current global energy demand is a mere 600 quads. Worldwide, the magma energy available is effectively limitless; and given limitless clean energy to spend there are no limits to growth. We can meet all our energy needs carbon free, desalinate, irrigate, recycle all waste, capture carbon and more. We can make the deserts bloom if we so choose, with fountains, fruit trees and marble floors for miles! Nonetheless, the environmentalist left have ignored this technology, and persisted in advocating anti-capitalist policy approaches based on a limits to growth hypothesis that's untrue with respect to experimentally proven technologies. And one has to wonder - why the false dichotomy? Why has the only choice presented to the public been between fossil fuel based prosperity and vegan bicycle powered green poverty? Do you not understand how you have facilitated continued fossil fuel dependence?
@@carlbennett2417 Why would you say that? Are you insane? The world will not survive a collapse. There are 8 billion people on earth who will rip into nature - strip every green and living thing from the face of the earth and turn on each other. Nuclear and chemical loss of containment, wood and trash burnt for heat will poison the air and water. In two or three generations we'll have functional illiteracy, and there will be no way back. Anyone who survives this will be much worse off than people were thousands of years ago when the earth was young and bountiful; scavengers fighting over the wreckage of civilisation, dying of genetic disease, they'll suffer the tortures of the damned and just dwindle away.
Two excellent thinkers, thanks for bringing them together.
Thankyou so much for this - I love so much how David diffuses the negativity of the doom potential of questions such as the population question and offers the promise of the better world we can step into.
So grateful to have him as an elder in this movement. Lots of ideas to think about and share from this.
Gratitude to all involved.
So excited to listen to this! Heinberg has been a major influence on me! I later discovered the Meadows & LtG.
Very informative! I just started Geoff Lawton's online PDC, and it was revealing to find that LTG was part of the impetus to create permaculture. I read the LTG 30 Year Update about a decade ago. Keep up the great work!
Good conversation!
Father here the creator.
Die off of the devil is no concern.
That has and is happened.
Thank you very important. Us are not the devil. Woke up like yesterday.
Topic is important.
Reread the devil die off. Devil predestination of themselves die off was the capitals of power this winter over.
Nature is not regenerative it is successional, please make a note of this!
I loved the growth statement by David! Start a garden and have real growth while we're at it!
Carrying capacity fluctuates with the varying variables. Population is a land issue, temporarily disconnected by fossil fuels.
Participation rate where everyone is working on the economic treadmill which is trashing the Earth! Hahahahaha! Priceless quote!
No food crisis or rationing at my place Richard. Start a garden now and avoid the rush!
Mentioning composting is most important, I think the top element of all, other than harvesting rainwater in an arid climate. I am a big time composter! Compost rainwater and fencing!
Look up society 4.0 Bob de Wit. Community building and local/regional solutions.
Contribute here.
Their is on earth .
Devil strong holds ?? City old name today's name area etc.
Since turkey Syria quake recent. Not enough to go around devil strong holds lose.
New to us here. They don't have much of chance success that you foresee.
Heard understood. Dark.
Yep got picture. Surprisingly no faith in the devil.
Interior cathedral of many souls
Surprisingly only too dark dreary drab. Not what you would expect from the real devil on the way here and gone quickly.
Fyi see on us debt clock real time.
Payroll taxes most say social security.
Investment makes the grade done.
Those tax. Phrases. Goodbye dinasours? Detective s??
In 1798 Thomas Malthus wrote 'An Essay on the Principle of Population' describing the discrepancy between geometric population growth (2,4,8,16,32) and the arithmetic addition of agricultural land (1,2,3,4,5,6). He concluded, with apparently infallible logic - that people would outstrip food production and starve.
That didn't happen, because people invented tractors, fertilisers, trains and refrigeration - technologies that multiplied resources; such that now, more people are better fed than ever before in history. The exact same thesis is presented in Limits to Growth - published in 1972; and similarly, it is only valid for a specific technological state.
In 1982, NASA produced a report detailing experiments proving the viability of harnessing Magma Energy; and estimated the size of the US magma energy resource (alone) at a minimum of 50,000 quadrillion btu. (quads) Current global energy demand is a mere 600 quads. Worldwide, the magma energy available is effectively limitless; and given limitless clean energy to spend there are no limits to growth. We can meet all our energy needs carbon free, desalinate, irrigate, recycle all waste, capture carbon and more. We can make the deserts bloom if we so choose, with fountains, fruit trees and marble floors for miles!
Nonetheless, the environmentalist left have ignored this technology, and persisted in advocating anti-capitalist policy approaches based on a limits to growth hypothesis that's untrue with respect to experimentally proven technologies. And one has to wonder - why the false dichotomy? Why has the only choice presented to the public been between fossil fuel based prosperity and vegan bicycle powered green poverty? Do you not understand how you have facilitated continued fossil fuel dependence?
Copypasta comment. Don't bother.
@@carlbennett2417 Why would you say that? Are you insane? The world will not survive a collapse. There are 8 billion people on earth who will rip into nature - strip every green and living thing from the face of the earth and turn on each other. Nuclear and chemical loss of containment, wood and trash burnt for heat will poison the air and water. In two or three generations we'll have functional illiteracy, and there will be no way back. Anyone who survives this will be much worse off than people were thousands of years ago when the earth was young and bountiful; scavengers fighting over the wreckage of civilisation, dying of genetic disease, they'll suffer the tortures of the damned and just dwindle away.