How much do you think that you rely on a dropper seat post? If you had to choose between a full-suspension bike with a rigid seat post Vs a Rigid bike with a dropper post, what would you choose and why?
Worst case scenario is a Full-sus with a broken dropper stuck down (or stuck up) - ultimately we rode for years having to jump on and off to raise and lower the post (and it was a nice time to grab a breather before a downhill!) - so the choice is obvious for me...
I'll rather have the hardtail with a dropper, it gives you better handling and options going down. Blake did Avalanche on a hardtail with a dropper so there is that.
I'm on your side: fully rigid with dropper. In fact, I have a hardtail with a 170mm dropper. I prefer to be the one riding the bike instead of being a passenger. But then I grew up racing BMX so that comes natural to me :)
Way too much. That said I’m not young anymore so I’d pick the full sus and just use a quick release until I could afford a dropper… which um… would be at the same time as the bike as they are so cheap these days.
As as lifetime road cyclist, I needed to learn some technical skills for trail riding on my new full suspension electric mountain bike. I added the dropper post after a few weeks and it made a huge difference! I’m 74 and not doing crazy stuff, but I can handle roots, rocks, descents, rollovers with confidence now. And I’m having so much fun😊
Started riding in the 90's & never had a problem riding sketchy terrain without a dropper. To this day still haven't found a true need for it with my riding style. Really more personal choice for me.
I have a rigid xc bike and 140 mm full squish trail bike and I totally agree with your assessment Doddy. I think that the dropper post changes the way you can ride more than any other single bike part. That said, I've seen some super xc rider guys doing real gnarly trails on their no dropper bikes, so to each their own.
I ride a rigid steel 29" with dropper post. I don't own a bike with suspension and I really enjoy the technical aspects of riding this bike on the red & blue trails at the FoD, the dropper post being essential for safety and control. I'm old, I ride slow, I ride for fun and my bike seems sufficient for me at present, should that change, then I'll consider a bike with suspension.
I guess the front suspension could have been taken for granted. I'd be interested in hardtail (front sus only) + dropper vs. full sus, no dropper. Really my dilemma nowadays.
Great video. But as soon as I saw that rigid bike, I remembered how the shape of front forks evolved. Early bikes used to have a pronounced curve at the bottom of the fork, just before the spindle. As bike got racier, it was found a straight fork felt more direct and turned faster - at the expense of comfort. That rigid bike had zero shock dissipation and sent every bump right back into the frame. I bet it would be totally different with some curves in there! A dropper post is a great concept - apart from the weight. I know we like to think of ourselves as racers and every second counts. But out on a weekend ride, its very rare you don't get a second to stop - maybe to assess the next section or to just enjoy thinking about the next or last section - particularly just before a drop. That's a great time to tweak your seat height. Riding's about the buzz of the ride and the "craic" of doing a particular bit well and savouring that moment. Join it all up with no pause and not so much...
Those curved forks back in the day helped to elongate the wheelbase as well as put the front wheel axle further in front of the bars. Back when the geo of bikes was short top tubes and reaches, steep HTAs, and aircraft carrier sized stems, those of us that wanted to push our bikes harder DH and into gnar and tech knew that we had to accomplish both of those things in order to get better straight line speed over gnar and not go otb so easily on super steeps. But we were limited by the frame geo. It’s amazing actually how long we we had to screw around with mods to those terrible frames trying to make the bikes better at descending (quick releases on seat post and laid back style posts, then dropping in shorter stems), and that it took so long for the manufacturers to build frames with proper geo for mtbing and to finally get us droppers. I mean those us tinkering knew the changes that needed to made 25-30 years ago. And man, if you want a Zen escape, link up those features on a proper modern mtb with a dropper without stopping! So good. It’s like catching the perfect wave surfing, or when the entire line in a Rugby match is attacking in unison. Have fun and catch the Zen🤙
@@dadventuretv2538 yes, they did. But most old rigid forks followed the centre line of the headstock. Most front sus forks have a lot of front offset from crown to base which pushes the wheelbase forward in about the same way. Not to mention the axle mounts are pushed forward at least 50mm, too.
@@zenscapeUKmedia yup. Altho those big offsets were to reduce the trail of the 29ers since when they first came out they kind of handled like pigs. As geo for 29ers has gotten better and 29ers handling better naturally it’s been interesting to watch offsets decrease. I cant remember last time I looked at a bike with a 51 mm offset. I bought my original model 1990 Mongoose Hilltopper used recently and it is amazing how much geo has changed. Im gonna do a vid one of these days on the geo measurements for comparison sake. Man that thing is so sketchy. And to think we used to send it on those back in the day! Lol. Course I was a lot younger then too!! And still had my bmx for jumps. Times have def changed for the better.
Although you're using a dropper on the rigid you could have a longer dropper that would move the saddle even further out of the way. The saddle is still high even with the dropper lowered. That would allow even more cushioning of the trails.
I did the Cape to Cape 4-day race last week on a full-suspension (120 front and rear) with a dropper, and I have to say only once or twice did I manage to use the dropper post. Since I had never ridden those trails and didn't know what was coming, by the time I hit anything that would have benefitted from the dropper it was too late and I was already committed. I think using the dropper requires some forknowledge to be truly useful - I certainly use it all the time on my home trails.
Agreed! I think droppers are over rated for exactly that reason. I also rode 2022 C2C, with full suspension and a rigid Thomson Elite seat post. The bike came with a dropper but I removed it and am very happy with the Thomson. I dropped the saddle height 3cm and trained that way for months before the race. In my experience, the dropper is almost useless on an unfamiliar trail.
I have a hardtail with a rigid fork or a Rockshox Sid, used to be with a rigid seat post but I switched to a dropper post. Dropper post massively help in the downhill (going faster, on bigger stuff) and on a rigid set up, I think I hit my limit. On a rigid bike, dropper post help you go so fast on the downhill that you started to be limited by the frame and the lack of suspension. Doesn't feel the same with a suspended fork and a rigid fork. Now, it is dropper on all my bike, even the monster gravel 😁
Great comparison. I've been riding/racing dual sus XC for about 10 years, and I like to think I can do most of my XC racing without using the dropper, but its hard to not use it. Also after a few years toying with gravel riding, I really like riding full rigid on smooth single track. Strangely I've never liked riding hard tails, so I'm about to sell my GRavel bike and try the madness of fully rigid single speed...
I am currently running a full suspension with no dropper post. Is a bit awkward on some downhills, but living with it for now. I ordered a dropper months ago and should be in shortly. Will be a nice comparison once installed. Great video Doddy!
In my experience, a dropper post makes steep decents more ridable than suspension as long as the trail is smooth enough. Suspension just makes it easier to go faster. So depending on what exactly I'm riding, there are definitely times I'd rather have a dropper post.
Still prefer hardtails actually, currently riding a 160 AM HT with a 150 dropper...hardtails are just more engaging to ride. Slam the seat down and get rowdy...
I got a 140 ht with dropper that I do blacks with and dropper is necessary on all bikes I think. I've tried riding the ht without the dropper and it's just too scary
One thing I've noticed riding my old school Cotic Soul with 74 degrees seat tube angle versus my new Pipedream Sirius with 77.5 degrees STA, is that the dropper becomes much more essential with a steep seat tube. The seat is simply in the way much more on the Sirius as opposed to the Soul where the seat is behind when you stand up. So I'd rate a dropper as somewhere between "nice" and "essential" depending on your STA. 🙂
Full rigid bike is always will be my taste, with less weight and less maintance and less chances of being stolen compared to a full suspension bike, unless if your in a compention / racing then it will be the full suspension. the full rigid is cheaper to purchase and own also in the long run with less maintance-servicing / parts. Full rigid is my pick as an all rounder bike for me, but if money was not an issue and storage, then ill have every type of bike design out there. Rigid bike will always be first all ways, simple, basic, less weight, cheaper to own/purchase and less chances of being stolen when place next to a full suspension bike.
My full sus Giant was stolen from me, and my insurance company wrote me a check. I did not buy another full sus bike, but instead built a great hardtail with a good front sus and a dropper post. The dropper change my world and is the best piece of equipment I have ever added to a bike. Hydraulic disk brakes are second to this. My dropper has been on my bike for three years and still operates like new. It opened up a lot of new and challenging trail for me, and never again has my seat kicked me in the ass and tossed me over the bars.
I bought my Trek Procaliber 9.7 without a dropper at first. Rode like it was for a month and crashed a couple of times because I didn't had the confidence. I installed a reverb axs dropper with 100mm travel. It transformed the bike. Way more playful and gave me the confidence to jump and be totally in control. When I ride a mtb without one now it gives me the kick in the butt
How tall are you? I have the procal 9.7 and looking to buy either a bikeyoke devine sl 125mm, or a bikeyoke revive 3.0 160mm. Trying to decide between the two sizes. I'm 190mm (6'3), XL frame size.
I just switched from a size large full sus with 155mm rear suspension to a size medium Nukeproof Scout, and with the difference in room to move around on the bike I haven't missed having rear suspension so far. As I get a chance to ride the more rowdy trails I have ridden on the full sus I expect to see a little more difference, but having the room to move my bodyweight around the right way makes the ride feel so much better. As Doddy describes it, I felt like much more of a passenger on the full sus because the seat tube length was just too great for my proportionately short legs.
I had a none dropper seatpost and then a friend said to me try a dropper seatpost and I have not gone back to a standard seatpost allways have a dropper seatpost now best thing ever
Started riding some 25-30 years ago On what he's riding, there's zero need for a dropper. Long long extreme DH, sure. The weight penalty from a dropper 600-850gms vs a good rigid post 200-280gms is significant
i'd go full sus and just put it down manually ... i'm not racing anyone so i'm ok spending the like 30 seconds to move it up or down ... tho most of the time i'd probably ride at the goldilox height for me ... and it's less weight too
Though you can get a cheap post with the handle under the seat, makes it look like you are grabbing your balls, but it would save you a lot of seconds. 🤣
That's a great point! If you've got time to move your seatpost manually, then you may not need one. Although there is no better feeling than being able to go from pedalling to shredding at one press of a lever. 👍
thought about a dropper post....but then decided not to being as i only have front suspension, now i just use it to goto work & occasionally the shops, hard tails are great on today's roads with all the potholes,
I couldn't go back to riding without a dropper post, I tried and didn't like it. I'd probably go for the rigid with dropper post because I ride a hardtail anyway.
Not a professional rider by any means and i ride a hard tail not a full suspension, but i would choose a suspension bike and definitely a full suspension one with no dropper post every day of the year for that terrain. I'm pretty found of my joints and i did develop some problems over the years, so i do like to protect my body as much as possible and the confort that a suspension provides. In the city i would ride a classic non suspension bike but still I'm pretty found of my hard tail bike, actually i love my bike and i consider It the perfect compromise between city ride's and mountain ride's.
I'd rather have the optimal neutral riding position at the expense of giving up (mechanical) suspension travel every time. How about a video demonstrating how to make best use of having a dropper post?
Fine work doddy,proper old skool rider,put dropper on my 89 stumpy,opened my trail choices,so much so,finally after decades of rigid,gonna get a modern geo hardtail..keep up the good work
I have been riding since the early 90's. For me if I have to be with out one or the other, I will be on the full rigid bike with a dropper. I have had too many OTB accidents because my seat kicked me in the butt sending me over the bars. I think both are evolutionary genre defining pieces of kit that everyone should get to experience though.
Suspension over all. Even if you have no dropper post you are able to lower the seat with the quickspanner. And be onest. Buying a simple dropper post starting at 100€ is no big deal.
I ride a 26 steel Orange P7 c2000 no dropper....and now have a Spec Chisel 29....no dropper. Ride mainly xc type routes when doing rough , techy downhills I hang my arse over the stern like we always did. Thought about one but its just another moving part that could go wrong and want to keep my bars clean as possible. You dont miss what you dont have!
You should get an XC guy to do such comparisons... The dropper will be helpful in super steep technical stuff and tight corners but not so much on most "normal" XC trails. Most Pros use it because the XC races have enduro-like technical descends but 80% of the amateur XC riders do not ride such trails, therefore, do not need a dropper. If someone is new to MTBing it sure will help them with providing additional confidence but if you are riding for many years and have gotten used to not having one, it is not a game changer. It sure will be helpful having one but not so much as you might think. One the other hand going from a hardtail to a full suspension, that is a real game changer.
As someone who got his first full suss bike this summer and prefers to climb I'd go with full suss ;) You should've also timed Canyon with seat down, just to have the full picture.
The Godfather of British mountain bikes Geoff Apps said the suspension is in you legs and arms. And tire pressure too. Getting out the saddle and letting the bike pivot around the BB soaks up all kings of rough stuff. But, it is knackering…
Totally agree with Doddy. I have a rigid bike (canyon exceed 2021 which I have swopped out the 100mm Fox32 for a carbon rigid fork), and swopped the DT swiss 60mm dropper for a fixed Thomson seatpost. I Ride clipped in ans d these Setup I’ve not really enjoyed the bike fully on the trail as it’s pretty scary with the seatpost fixed up high.. going to swop in the 60mm dropper tomorrow
My XC bike is a 2013 Niner Jet9Rdo 120 fork 100 rear squish with fixed post. For my trails it’s perfect and only holds me back on a few drops. My trail rig is Trek fuel ex p1 and has a dropper that I really don’t use often.
I have a dropper on my trance 29 and my Cannondale jeckyll 4 (2012) I almost never use them. Thinking about scrapping them for a lighter carbon post...
I had a rigid mtb without a dropper. It was trash and I would rather ride any combo of dropper and suspension, other than a rigid mtb lol. Currently loving my hardtail flat bar (gravel? Skinny wheel mtb?) bike with 70mm of travel (no dropper) and my full sus 120mm travel with dropper.
I spent most of the summer on my rigid with a 170mm dropper. Did 3260km in total and 1100km of mountain biking. I would not have been stoked at any point to suddenly have suspension but had to trade my dropper for it.
I tried that too, got bumped in my family jewels quite a bit. I tell ya, once u ride with a dropper for a long while it’s impossible to go back to rigid setup! It’s scary, u really feel like u gonna launch off to space on every bump lol
This video misses the mark with this comparison. When you don't have a dropper post, you get off and lower your seat post manually for the descents. That's how everyone used to ride before dropper posts as far as I can remember.
Why is your dropper so short? That is what? A 100mm drop? You can easily put a 170mm drop with how much of the seat is exposed giving you even more body bike separation
I'm calling this one out as BS. I love Doddy, but this is so easy to manipulate, just brake a bit more on the bike without dropper. I haven't found any benefit from a dropper on terrain like that. I just use mine on really steep parts. The FS bike should be miles ahead of the rigid one..
2010? ish me and a few mates were rocking the OG Gravity Dropper post here in New Zealand. We were laughed at by locals but we knew better. The best upgrade to ride down and on tech stuff. We never looked back 🤣 One major 29er difference now though vs 26" wheels is how much your tackle rubs on the rear tyre 😆 Oh and STUPID low BB 😉😉
I rode a rigid GT in late 80's at a trail very similar you rode in SE WI and my teeth would chatter and helmet would bounce around and shift on my head :( Today I ride a full suspension with a dropper post....much more fun and not so sadistic :)
I wish I could afford to buy a dropper post for my hardtail unfortunately I can't afford to upgrade the suspension on it and I cannot justify buying a seat post when I need a better fork.
bro, that's honestly not even a dropper post. I don't usually nitpick videos like this but it looks like there is room for a dropper twice as long on that rigid abomination.
Doddy, thinking of entering a gravel race on my 29+ trek stache. Should I buy a ridgid fork? or just pump my suspension fork up and fit some narrower tyres?
Think I must be a few (not that many) years older than Doddy. I grew up riding BMX and never really got into those early years of mtb as the riding position just didnt feel fun...so a racer was preferable for ariund town riding. Road a full sus marin attack trail from 97 to 2020...now on a hardtail with good geo and dropper.... way better.. So good I now need a full sus with good geo and a dropper...why compromise...have it all and shred...
Bloody roadies, come here, stealing our dropper posts... (joking) 🤣 I started with bmx and run a full squish with a dropper and a hardtail 29er with a titanium post, still prefer the 29er to ride, though the full squish is good when the going gets r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s-l-y rough.
That's such a cool journey, Andrew! Modern geometry and dropper posts revolutionise your riding. We bet the difference in feeling was crazy when you upgraded from your Marin Attack Trail. 😅
As someone who's ridden full rigid without a dropper on trails several times in the past year, I personally would rather have suspension than a dropper lol.
I should mention, I usually ride with the saddle down and just suffer the climbs in exchange for being able to ride confidently. If I have a long climb I'll raise the seatpost then drop it again for the downhill.
Full sus, rigid seatpost for sure. I suspect either your riding style is more of a problem than the seatpost. I have a dropper but rarely use it because it's unnecessary, I clear plenty of jumps and push my bike pretty hard and don't get bucked around. Maybe I ride with a slightly lower proportionate saddle height than you or others, I don't know. I'd be happy to come out there and try out the same setups for free plane tickets!
well i did have a full sus with ridged post that was not able to put down as it was as far down as it could go perfict for rideing on the flat but not good if you have to get your waght over the back wheel and ive been over the handle bars and crashed a few times because the seat smacking me in the arse lol just fitted a small dropper as i cant fit one over 350mm toatle length or i wont be able to reach the peddles, havent try'd it on a trail but i know it will make a huge diferance, thats why my montessa trials bike hasnt got a seat coz you have to be able to move your waght around it when going over stuff.
Great video Doddy 👍 Since riding with a dropper post it would be hard to ride without one now it's such a game changer. If I got a bike that didn't have one it would definitely be an upgrade I'd make just like grips and saddle. Great stuff #GNBNTech 👊🤘
On my e-mtb hardtail I found one good compromise position. I just didn’t proper leg extension. And then I saw the PNW suspension dropper. I’d been considering a suspension seatpost for some time. Mostly for the street. Some seriously mess up side streets around Portland, Or. Having already commuted (pedaled) this bike for years, I wish I’d had a dropper for all those stoplights. Painful on the toes and near leg cramps staying seated. I could go on, but you’ve covered the trail stuff.
All mountain hardtail. 160mm fork, 150mm dropper...i find it more engaging and fun...alertness needs to be at 100% all the time or else u get in trouble real quick😅😅😅
Not sure if you are aware, but at least here in the US we have bikes with dropper posts and full suspension :-).... So, yes we Americans always have the best, and we find it mind bugling that you Brits always settle just for half.... Jejeje....
How much do you think that you rely on a dropper seat post? If you had to choose between a full-suspension bike with a rigid seat post Vs a Rigid bike with a dropper post, what would you choose and why?
Worst case scenario is a Full-sus with a broken dropper stuck down (or stuck up) - ultimately we rode for years having to jump on and off to raise and lower the post (and it was a nice time to grab a breather before a downhill!) - so the choice is obvious for me...
I'll rather have the hardtail with a dropper, it gives you better handling and options going down. Blake did Avalanche on a hardtail with a dropper so there is that.
This is the most pointless and stupid comparison ever
I'm on your side: fully rigid with dropper.
In fact, I have a hardtail with a 170mm dropper.
I prefer to be the one riding the bike instead of being a passenger.
But then I grew up racing BMX so that comes natural to me :)
Way too much. That said I’m not young anymore so I’d pick the full sus and just use a quick release until I could afford a dropper… which um… would be at the same time as the bike as they are so cheap these days.
As as lifetime road cyclist, I needed to learn some technical skills for trail riding on my new full suspension electric mountain bike. I added the dropper post after a few weeks and it made a huge difference! I’m 74 and not doing crazy stuff, but I can handle roots, rocks, descents, rollovers with confidence now. And I’m having so much fun😊
74 and still out riding? You're definitely the coolest person in this comment section :)
@@torepedersen3109 Thank you! You totally made my day😊
Started riding in the 90's & never had a problem riding sketchy terrain without a dropper. To this day still haven't found a true need for it with my riding style. Really more personal choice for me.
i have ridden xc hardtails whitout dropper seatpost so far not needed them.
I have a rigid xc bike and 140 mm full squish trail bike and I totally agree with your assessment Doddy. I think that the dropper post changes the way you can ride more than any other single bike part. That said, I've seen some super xc rider guys doing real gnarly trails on their no dropper bikes, so to each their own.
I ride a rigid steel 29" with dropper post. I don't own a bike with suspension and I really enjoy the technical aspects of riding this bike on the red & blue trails at the FoD, the dropper post being essential for safety and control. I'm old, I ride slow, I ride for fun and my bike seems sufficient for me at present, should that change, then I'll consider a bike with suspension.
I guess the front suspension could have been taken for granted. I'd be interested in hardtail (front sus only) + dropper vs. full sus, no dropper.
Really my dilemma nowadays.
I enjoy a hardtail with a dropper. It definitely comes in handy.
Great video. But as soon as I saw that rigid bike, I remembered how the shape of front forks evolved. Early bikes used to have a pronounced curve at the bottom of the fork, just before the spindle. As bike got racier, it was found a straight fork felt more direct and turned faster - at the expense of comfort. That rigid bike had zero shock dissipation and sent every bump right back into the frame. I bet it would be totally different with some curves in there!
A dropper post is a great concept - apart from the weight. I know we like to think of ourselves as racers and every second counts. But out on a weekend ride, its very rare you don't get a second to stop - maybe to assess the next section or to just enjoy thinking about the next or last section - particularly just before a drop. That's a great time to tweak your seat height. Riding's about the buzz of the ride and the "craic" of doing a particular bit well and savouring that moment. Join it all up with no pause and not so much...
Those curved forks back in the day helped to elongate the wheelbase as well as put the front wheel axle further in front of the bars. Back when the geo of bikes was short top tubes and reaches, steep HTAs, and aircraft carrier sized stems, those of us that wanted to push our bikes harder DH and into gnar and tech knew that we had to accomplish both of those things in order to get better straight line speed over gnar and not go otb so easily on super steeps. But we were limited by the frame geo. It’s amazing actually how long we we had to screw around with mods to those terrible frames trying to make the bikes better at descending (quick releases on seat post and laid back style posts, then dropping in shorter stems), and that it took so long for the manufacturers to build frames with proper geo for mtbing and to finally get us droppers. I mean those us tinkering knew the changes that needed to made 25-30 years ago.
And man, if you want a Zen escape, link up those features on a proper modern mtb with a dropper without stopping! So good. It’s like catching the perfect wave surfing, or when the entire line in a Rugby match is attacking in unison. Have fun and catch the Zen🤙
@@dadventuretv2538 yes, they did. But most old rigid forks followed the centre line of the headstock. Most front sus forks have a lot of front offset from crown to base which pushes the wheelbase forward in about the same way. Not to mention the axle mounts are pushed forward at least 50mm, too.
@@zenscapeUKmedia yup. Altho those big offsets were to reduce the trail of the 29ers since when they first came out they kind of handled like pigs. As geo for 29ers has gotten better and 29ers handling better naturally it’s been interesting to watch offsets decrease. I cant remember last time I looked at a bike with a 51 mm offset. I bought my original model 1990 Mongoose Hilltopper used recently and it is amazing how much geo has changed. Im gonna do a vid one of these days on the geo measurements for comparison sake. Man that thing is so sketchy. And to think we used to send it on those back in the day! Lol. Course I was a lot younger then too!! And still had my bmx for jumps. Times have def changed for the better.
Although you're using a dropper on the rigid you could have a longer dropper that would move the saddle even further out of the way. The saddle is still high even with the dropper lowered. That would allow even more cushioning of the trails.
I did the Cape to Cape 4-day race last week on a full-suspension (120 front and rear) with a dropper, and I have to say only once or twice did I manage to use the dropper post. Since I had never ridden those trails and didn't know what was coming, by the time I hit anything that would have benefitted from the dropper it was too late and I was already committed. I think using the dropper requires some forknowledge to be truly useful - I certainly use it all the time on my home trails.
Agreed! I think droppers are over rated for exactly that reason. I also rode 2022 C2C, with full suspension and a rigid Thomson Elite seat post. The bike came with a dropper but I removed it and am very happy with the Thomson. I dropped the saddle height 3cm and trained that way for months before the race. In my experience, the dropper is almost useless on an unfamiliar trail.
I have a hardtail with a rigid fork or a Rockshox Sid, used to be with a rigid seat post but I switched to a dropper post.
Dropper post massively help in the downhill (going faster, on bigger stuff) and on a rigid set up, I think I hit my limit.
On a rigid bike, dropper post help you go so fast on the downhill that you started to be limited by the frame and the lack of suspension. Doesn't feel the same with a suspended fork and a rigid fork.
Now, it is dropper on all my bike, even the monster gravel 😁
Great comparison. I've been riding/racing dual sus XC for about 10 years, and I like to think I can do most of my XC racing without using the dropper, but its hard to not use it. Also after a few years toying with gravel riding, I really like riding full rigid on smooth single track. Strangely I've never liked riding hard tails, so I'm about to sell my GRavel bike and try the madness of fully rigid single speed...
I am currently running a full suspension with no dropper post. Is a bit awkward on some downhills, but living with it for now. I ordered a dropper months ago and should be in shortly. Will be a nice comparison once installed. Great video Doddy!
That's great, Steve! We hope you enjoy your dropper when you get it! It's a game changer, that's for sure! We're glad you enjoyed! 👍
I ride rigid MTBs and I'm just happy to see you doing it too.
I've got a 140mm hardtail with a dropper.
Serves me well
Sounds like a great setup!
I love having a dropper but I think it is a stretch that a rigid bike with a dropper is more capable than full suspension with a rigid post
Yeah he just proved it's not the case and yet still kind of claims that it is. Nonsense.
He was literally faster on rigid. He proved it is the case
Nah. He wasn’t trying on the full suspension. And also I think he forgot that something called lowering the saddle exists
In my experience, a dropper post makes steep decents more ridable than suspension as long as the trail is smooth enough. Suspension just makes it easier to go faster. So depending on what exactly I'm riding, there are definitely times I'd rather have a dropper post.
I thought it was an unfair comparison. The dropper should have had a front sus. It was ridiculous riding that rigid bike on that trail.
Makes me wonder how well a hardtail and a dropper would do. That would be my choice unless it's ridiculously technical.
+1
@@tonysadler5290 Mine is running 120mm Rockshox forks, though I could actually do with a little more travel, I run a 150mm on my other bike.
Still prefer hardtails actually, currently riding a 160 AM HT with a 150 dropper...hardtails are just more engaging to ride. Slam the seat down and get rowdy...
I got a 140 ht with dropper that I do blacks with and dropper is necessary on all bikes I think. I've tried riding the ht without the dropper and it's just too scary
me ride my hardtail 27.5 with 150mm travel fork and 150mm dropper seatpost.really fun
One thing I've noticed riding my old school Cotic Soul with 74 degrees seat tube angle versus my new Pipedream Sirius with 77.5 degrees STA, is that the dropper becomes much more essential with a steep seat tube. The seat is simply in the way much more on the Sirius as opposed to the Soul where the seat is behind when you stand up. So I'd rate a dropper as somewhere between "nice" and "essential" depending on your STA. 🙂
Full rigid bike is always will be my taste, with less weight and less maintance and less chances of being stolen compared to a full suspension bike, unless if your in a compention / racing then it will be the full suspension. the full rigid is cheaper to purchase and own also in the long run with less maintance-servicing / parts. Full rigid is my pick as an all rounder bike for me, but if money was not an issue and storage, then ill have every type of bike design out there. Rigid bike will always be first all ways, simple, basic, less weight, cheaper to own/purchase and less chances of being stolen when place next to a full suspension bike.
My full sus Giant was stolen from me, and my insurance company wrote me a check. I did not buy another full sus bike, but instead built a great hardtail with a good front sus and a dropper post. The dropper change my world and is the best piece of equipment I have ever added to a bike. Hydraulic disk brakes are second to this. My dropper has been on my bike for three years and still operates like new. It opened up a lot of new and challenging trail for me, and never again has my seat kicked me in the ass and tossed me over the bars.
I can't think of any reason not to have a dropper, literal game changing upgrade if you don't currently have one on!
And that bike has shifter and rear brake (only) on the right side.. so one less thing to clutter the bars is only a bonus
@@OLI-vx1md it doesn't get in the way, plus with one by it balances out that trigger shifter. 🤣
Cost?
We agree, Craig! Having a dropper completely changes the way in which you ride. Once you've got one, you'll never want to go back! 😂
I bought my Trek Procaliber 9.7 without a dropper at first. Rode like it was for a month and crashed a couple of times because I didn't had the confidence. I installed a reverb axs dropper with 100mm travel. It transformed the bike. Way more playful and gave me the confidence to jump and be totally in control. When I ride a mtb without one now it gives me the kick in the butt
How tall are you? I have the procal 9.7 and looking to buy either a bikeyoke devine sl 125mm, or a bikeyoke revive 3.0 160mm. Trying to decide between the two sizes. I'm 190mm (6'3), XL frame size.
RIGID. DROPPER. 2.6 FRONT TIRE. CRUSHING IT. Trials background. 42years old
Great video Doddy, once again you do an amazing job of articulation and demonstrating your points
Doddy did a great job at explaining everything in this video! We're glad you enjoyed it, Christopher! Safe riding! 👍
I’ve got my own rigid bike with a dropper post and it helps out so much
I just switched from a size large full sus with 155mm rear suspension to a size medium Nukeproof Scout, and with the difference in room to move around on the bike I haven't missed having rear suspension so far. As I get a chance to ride the more rowdy trails I have ridden on the full sus I expect to see a little more difference, but having the room to move my bodyweight around the right way makes the ride feel so much better. As Doddy describes it, I felt like much more of a passenger on the full sus because the seat tube length was just too great for my proportionately short legs.
I had a none dropper seatpost and then a friend said to me try a dropper seatpost and I have not gone back to a standard seatpost allways have a dropper seatpost now best thing ever
Started riding some 25-30 years ago
On what he's riding, there's zero need for a dropper. Long long extreme DH, sure. The weight penalty from a dropper 600-850gms vs a good rigid post 200-280gms is significant
My first mtb was fully rigid, and the dropper post made a much more significant difference than a front fork.
That dropper post is set high
i'd go full sus and just put it down manually ... i'm not racing anyone so i'm ok spending the like 30 seconds to move it up or down ... tho most of the time i'd probably ride at the goldilox height for me ... and it's less weight too
Though you can get a cheap post with the handle under the seat, makes it look like you are grabbing your balls, but it would save you a lot of seconds. 🤣
Spot on bro, spot on ! 👍
That's a great point! If you've got time to move your seatpost manually, then you may not need one. Although there is no better feeling than being able to go from pedalling to shredding at one press of a lever. 👍
thought about a dropper post....but then decided not to being as i only have front suspension, now i just use it to goto work & occasionally the shops, hard tails are great on today's roads with all the potholes,
I couldn't go back to riding without a dropper post, I tried and didn't like it. I'd probably go for the rigid with dropper post because I ride a hardtail anyway.
Not a professional rider by any means and i ride a hard tail not a full suspension, but i would choose a suspension bike and definitely a full suspension one with no dropper post every day of the year for that terrain.
I'm pretty found of my joints and i did develop some problems over the years, so i do like to protect my body as much as possible and the confort that a suspension provides. In the city i would ride a classic non suspension bike but still I'm pretty found of my hard tail bike, actually i love my bike and i consider It the perfect compromise between city ride's and mountain ride's.
I'd rather have the optimal neutral riding position at the expense of giving up (mechanical) suspension travel every time.
How about a video demonstrating how to make best use of having a dropper post?
Fine work doddy,proper old skool rider,put dropper on my 89 stumpy,opened my trail choices,so much so,finally after decades of rigid,gonna get a modern geo hardtail..keep up the good work
I have been riding since the early 90's. For me if I have to be with out one or the other, I will be on the full rigid bike with a dropper. I have had too many OTB accidents because my seat kicked me in the butt sending me over the bars. I think both are evolutionary genre defining pieces of kit that everyone should get to experience though.
Full suspension makes your trail ride easy and comfortable. Full rigid makes your trail ride FUN 10x. 😊
Suspension over all. Even if you have no dropper post you are able to lower the seat with the quickspanner. And be onest. Buying a simple dropper post starting at 100€ is no big deal.
I ride a 26 steel Orange P7 c2000 no dropper....and now have a Spec Chisel 29....no dropper. Ride mainly xc type routes when doing rough , techy downhills I hang my arse over the stern like we always did. Thought about one but its just another moving part that could go wrong and want to keep my bars clean as possible. You dont miss what you dont have!
You should get an XC guy to do such comparisons... The dropper will be helpful in super steep technical stuff and tight corners but not so much on most "normal" XC trails. Most Pros use it because the XC races have enduro-like technical descends but 80% of the amateur XC riders do not ride such trails, therefore, do not need a dropper. If someone is new to MTBing it sure will help them with providing additional confidence but if you are riding for many years and have gotten used to not having one, it is not a game changer. It sure will be helpful having one but not so much as you might think.
One the other hand going from a hardtail to a full suspension, that is a real game changer.
As someone who got his first full suss bike this summer and prefers to climb I'd go with full suss ;)
You should've also timed Canyon with seat down, just to have the full picture.
Oh my yes - I’ve a early days 29 and a fat bike from my days in the gulf (flat-ish) once back to uk and some hills the first mod to both was a dropper
For sure! It's definitely a worthwhile upgrade for hilly/mountainous locations.
Doddy, your opening sentence, I don't think anyone would ever need you to explain/validate your love of all things technology for Mountain Bikes :D
RSI !!! my choice is my bike full sus and no dropper post as the extra weight of the dropper is not needed for my trail riding.
U can still lower your seat post if you dont have a dropper, just loosen the bolt/ quick-release lever and drop the seat. Ez 😑
During the 90s racing XC it was not an common to have your stomach on the saddle during steep descents
That's how I still ride
The Godfather of British mountain bikes Geoff Apps said the suspension is in you legs and arms. And tire pressure too. Getting out the saddle and letting the bike pivot around the BB soaks up all kings of rough stuff. But, it is knackering…
Totally agree with Doddy. I have a rigid bike (canyon exceed 2021 which I have swopped out the 100mm Fox32 for a carbon rigid fork), and swopped the DT swiss 60mm dropper for a fixed Thomson seatpost.
I Ride clipped in ans d these Setup I’ve not really enjoyed the bike fully on the trail as it’s pretty scary with the seatpost fixed up high.. going to swop in the 60mm dropper tomorrow
still rocking full sus 120 front / rear, 26er with dropper... isnt fastest on climbs but doesnt hold me back downhill either
That's great! 26ers are so fun to shred down trails on!
@@gmbntech #askgmbn can you setup the manitou black platinum IT forks progressively? Old scho air fork.
You definitely don't "need" a dropper but its just so much more fun. Especially single speed.
As a guy who rode bridlepaths on a rigid 26er in the early nineties, I am ensuring that my monstercross has a dropper post now 😁
Full steel frame without suspension is how I like to roll.
Roll or bounce about? ;)
My XC bike is a 2013 Niner Jet9Rdo 120 fork 100 rear squish with fixed post. For my trails it’s perfect and only holds me back on a few drops. My trail rig is Trek fuel ex p1 and has a dropper that I really don’t use often.
I have a dropper on my trance 29 and my Cannondale jeckyll 4 (2012) I almost never use them. Thinking about scrapping them for a lighter carbon post...
I can't find a dropper to fit my old bike. 😢
Winner? What have I won? A dropper that fits a 2009 iron horse mk3 elite would be nice. Lol
I had a rigid mtb without a dropper. It was trash and I would rather ride any combo of dropper and suspension, other than a rigid mtb lol. Currently loving my hardtail flat bar (gravel? Skinny wheel mtb?) bike with 70mm of travel (no dropper) and my full sus 120mm travel with dropper.
I spent most of the summer on my rigid with a 170mm dropper. Did 3260km in total and 1100km of mountain biking. I would not have been stoked at any point to suddenly have suspension but had to trade my dropper for it.
I would pick the rigid xc hardtail over the fully any day of the week.
I tried that too, got bumped in my family jewels quite a bit. I tell ya, once u ride with a dropper for a long while it’s impossible to go back to rigid setup!
It’s scary, u really feel like u gonna launch off to space on every bump lol
This video misses the mark with this comparison. When you don't have a dropper post, you get off and lower your seat post manually for the descents. That's how everyone used to ride before dropper posts as far as I can remember.
Why is your dropper so short? That is what? A 100mm drop? You can easily put a 170mm drop with how much of the seat is exposed giving you even more body bike separation
💯
I am a early adopter of Nathan's Gravity dropper. I was looking for this before this. :)
I'm calling this one out as BS. I love Doddy, but this is so easy to manipulate, just brake a bit more on the bike without dropper. I haven't found any benefit from a dropper on terrain like that. I just use mine on really steep parts. The FS bike should be miles ahead of the rigid one..
2010? ish me and a few mates were rocking the OG Gravity Dropper post here in New Zealand. We were laughed at by locals but we knew better. The best upgrade to ride down and on tech stuff. We never looked back 🤣 One major 29er difference now though vs 26" wheels is how much your tackle rubs on the rear tyre 😆 Oh and STUPID low BB 😉😉
120mm front 75mm dropper titanium xc hardtail.. all you need
I’ll always take the dropper. It makes such a huge differences
Alu bike with no flex 😮 carbon or steal bike would be more comfortable. 😅
The dropper post on the rigid bike is really tiny in terms of travel
I rode a rigid GT in late 80's at a trail very similar you rode in SE WI and my teeth would chatter and helmet would bounce around and shift on my head :( Today I ride a full suspension with a dropper post....much more fun and not so sadistic :)
I wish I could afford to buy a dropper post for my hardtail unfortunately I can't afford to upgrade the suspension on it and I cannot justify buying a seat post when I need a better fork.
Tough choice it goes to show how much of game changer a dropper post is.
Spot on doddy !
Glad you enjoyed, Keith!
bro, that's honestly not even a dropper post. I don't usually nitpick videos like this but it looks like there is room for a dropper twice as long on that rigid abomination.
Doddy, thinking of entering a gravel race on my 29+ trek stache. Should I buy a ridgid fork? or just pump my suspension fork up and fit some narrower tyres?
Is it me or this FS rear shock was not moving or hardly moving at all? Was it locked or too much air?
Think I must be a few (not that many) years older than Doddy. I grew up riding BMX and never really got into those early years of mtb as the riding position just didnt feel fun...so a racer was preferable for ariund town riding.
Road a full sus marin attack trail from 97 to 2020...now on a hardtail with good geo and dropper.... way better..
So good I now need a full sus with good geo and a dropper...why compromise...have it all and shred...
Bloody roadies, come here, stealing our dropper posts... (joking) 🤣
I started with bmx and run a full squish with a dropper and a hardtail 29er with a titanium post, still prefer the 29er to ride, though the full squish is good when the going gets r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s-l-y rough.
That's such a cool journey, Andrew! Modern geometry and dropper posts revolutionise your riding. We bet the difference in feeling was crazy when you upgraded from your Marin Attack Trail. 😅
that rigid is sick. sell it to me doddy. i will only upgrade it with old tech :):)
once you get used to it you won't want to be without it ❤❤
As someone who's ridden full rigid without a dropper on trails several times in the past year, I personally would rather have suspension than a dropper lol.
I should mention, I usually ride with the saddle down and just suffer the climbs in exchange for being able to ride confidently. If I have a long climb I'll raise the seatpost then drop it again for the downhill.
Full sus, rigid seatpost for sure. I suspect either your riding style is more of a problem than the seatpost. I have a dropper but rarely use it because it's unnecessary, I clear plenty of jumps and push my bike pretty hard and don't get bucked around. Maybe I ride with a slightly lower proportionate saddle height than you or others, I don't know. I'd be happy to come out there and try out the same setups for free plane tickets!
well i did have a full sus with ridged post that was not able to put down as it was as far down as it could go perfict for rideing on the flat but not good if you have to get your waght over the back wheel and ive been over the handle bars and crashed a few times because the seat smacking me in the arse lol just fitted a small dropper as i cant fit one over 350mm toatle length or i wont be able to reach the peddles, havent try'd it on a trail but i know it will make a huge diferance, thats why my montessa trials bike hasnt got a seat coz you have to be able to move your waght around it when going over stuff.
i love how he acts like bikes are just incapable of having low seats without dropper posts
Dropper posts are over rated, especially if you ride trails with lots of short ups and downs. Set it to an ideal compromise height and forget it.
also you should have more video doing, full rigid mtb reviews
amazing video! nice riding and good comparison
Great video Doddy 👍
Since riding with a dropper post it would be hard to ride without one now it's such a game changer.
If I got a bike that didn't have one it would definitely be an upgrade I'd make just like grips and saddle.
Great stuff #GNBNTech 👊🤘
How much faster was the lux with the dropper compared to 2.57 without?
Hi Doddy , love the rigid hard tails , what your thoughts on single speeds for training, and then racing on gears…? Cheers
Upgrading a seat is far cheaper and simpler then upgrading the suspension
Dropper > rear suspension
On my e-mtb hardtail I found one good compromise position. I just didn’t proper leg extension. And then I saw the PNW suspension dropper. I’d been considering a suspension seatpost for some time. Mostly for the street. Some seriously mess up side streets around Portland, Or.
Having already commuted (pedaled) this bike for years, I wish I’d had a dropper for all those stoplights. Painful on the toes and near leg cramps staying seated. I could go on, but you’ve covered the trail stuff.
All mountain hardtail. 160mm fork, 150mm dropper...i find it more engaging and fun...alertness needs to be at 100% all the time or else u get in trouble real quick😅😅😅
How about a long climb?
Try a Fat full of Carbon bike with Wren fork..
Now that's Yeee Haaaw!!
And I ride crap loads of Alpine Rock here in Nevada, USA .
More and more Pro XC riders are NOT running droppers. Something is up…as even these high end XC bikes are not coming with dropper posts.
Not sure if you are aware, but at least here in the US we have bikes with dropper posts and full suspension :-).... So, yes we Americans always have the best, and we find it mind bugling that you Brits always settle just for half.... Jejeje....
that Orbea is my dream commuter/ every thing bike ,I jus wish it came in aluminum I'd deal with a few extra grams of weight lol
I would take suspension and no dropper post.
The first 5 seconds of rigid….full sus wins 😂