Wiggins probably would have won anyway because it as a TT heavy tour... Froome wasn’t aloud to attack in the mountains though. I’m not sure why this keeps getting brought up the in the end Froome DID go back and work for Wiggins and didn’t attack him, and did “keep his word”. end of story
The only reason they are both Grand Tour winners is persistent TUES doping and the UCI providing cover for both of them just as they did for Dopestrong for a decade. Wiggy never needed any TUES for allergies for any races except for the TDF. Froome has never been an asthmatic, never! He has never been diagnosed as an asthmatic by any independent doctor, and even in his own biography when he is discussing physical issues he had to overcome to get to the top, not once does he ever mention asthma as an issue. Never once! They are both doping cheats, and should be viewed that way!
Robert Gardner BS until you bring up your evidences. Won Vuelta twice, won Giro fare and square, won TDF 4 times straight. Again your evidences or shush..
Ok so my understanding of events was froome was told he would be protected as back up GC , when he punctured on stage 2 that promise was broken because though Brad was safe the team did not protect him. Then on that stage where froome "attacked him " he made sure Brad was safe in the GC group before attacking to re gain the time lost on stage 2 which is perfectly in his right. It is not his fault that Brad couldn't follow the other GC riders as they chased froome and to be fair as soon as Wiggins was dissloadged froome went back for him. Didn't see bernal do that for g more importantly didn't see g moan about it like a baby. I have no time for Brad's moaning particularly where he won the dam thing and cost froome the vuelta. Does he even remember froome riding for him while in the red jursy and sacrificing himself or when Cobo attacked for the second day in a row despite Wiggins not having th legs froome didn't change Cobo he helped Wiggins , and when g was clearly the stronger rider last year Wiggins worked for g almost costing him a podium. Froome is a better cyclist team player and pro then Wiggins ever was
Like little children, Stop winging, wasn’t you who won in the end ? talking like that ! just makes you look resentful, let it go man…. Froome was and still is one of the greatest cyclist. Im not even his Fan.
I disagree. They made an agreement, that means everything in cycling. If you go against it, then you deserve all the stick afterwards. Don't forget that Foome won so many times because he had a great team, all working to orders, just like he should of done.
My guess is that Brialsford knew the ability of both riders and was keeping his options open given Wiggin’s performance the year before. Whether as a GC contender or domestic use, Froome is a powerful rider.
except he wasn’t. Wiggins smashed him in the time trials while we can only guess how much he might have taken on the climbs. Two minutes? Not enough to win
@Firsthgyhgyhuy Lastujhujhuj It was only one stage where Wiggins looked like he might be in trouble. Most winners have one bad stage. I remember Frooms looked like he was having a rest on one stage too and he needed the team as well. Wiggins could of left him behind on that day, if they were racing each other.
@@DrJRMCFC Wiggins took 2:00 on Froome in the prologue and time trials, so 2 minutes would have been enough (If Froome had been allowed to compete for the GC he would not have been abandoned by the team in stage 1). He would also have gained much more than two minutes in the mountains if he had been allowed to.
Had froome been allowed to race wiggins, he would have left him for dead in the mountains. Pretty pathetic to cry like this when you were protected and won anyway. Lucky to have won the biggest race of all I say.
You obviously don't know much about cycling. It was Froome's job to look after Wiggins that year. The team did the same for him in all his wins. If he wanted to race Wiggins in 2012, he needed to be in another team. Then he might not of looked so good.
@@sharpvidtube he's not talking about 'Froome's job', he said very clearly that if Froome had been allowed to race to his potential, he would have left Wiggins for dead which is completely true. While I don't like it when people break their promises, I would have also found it hard to be waiting around for a guy who I knew I could crush so easily and see him get all the glory. Wiggins is a puppet winner, the table was set for him specially both from a team perspective and a course perspective. Then there's the, ACHOOOO, sorry, Kenacort business, deary me. Personally, I'd be a bit embarrassed.
This podcast is awesome. Pretty much Sir Wiggo and his mates slagging off Belgium mechanics and Froomey, with some racing analysis thrown in. Can't wait for Cav to join in.
Fact is Froome was better than him and if not for the idiots backing Wiggins in the 2011 Vuelta and 2012 Tour, Froome would not be far off the greatest GC rider of all time.
@@Ewane sky hav ruined cyling, i wonder why, some great climbers on dat team , same fellas not so long ago they could hardly climb out of bed, wake up boy an smell the roses
What's to understand? He's 2nd on GC. You were first. He was better in the mountains. He came as a protected rider. Wasn't protected. Promises to HIM were broken first.
Firsthgyhgyhuy Lastujhujhuj since your obviously in the know. Why don’t you give us all a comprehensive explanation on why a Domestique should attack the dedicated GC leader?
Ok so my understanding of events was froome was told he would be protected as back up GC , when he punctured on stage 2 that promise was broken because though Brad was safe the team did not protect him. Then on that stage where froome "attacked him " he made sure Brad was safe in the GC group before attacking to re gain the time lost on stage 2 which is perfectly in his right. It is not his fault that Brad couldn't follow the other GC riders as they chased froome and to be fair as soon as Wiggins was dissloadged froome went back for him. Didn't see bernal do that for g more importantly didn't see g moan about it like a baby. I have no time for Brad's moaning particularly where he won the dam thing and cost froome the vuelta. Does he even remember froome riding for him while in the red jursy and sacrificing himself or when Cobo attacked for the second day in a row despite Wiggins not having th legs froome didn't change Cobo he helped Wiggins , and when g was clearly the stronger rider last year Wiggins worked for g almost costing him a podium. Froome is a better cyclist team player and pro then Wiggins ever was.
@@jamesrodd8667 agree 100% and thx to cobo dq at least history will forever be right 1st brit to win a grand tour was froome and rightly so shoulda have had the 2012 tour too are u telling me that taking the time he lost due to the puncture and even if u include that at least in 2 stages he doesnt get 3 min on wiggins hardly thought so just look at wiggins got from contador in 2009 froome in 2012 wasnt so good on the mountains as peak contador but he could sit wiggins 3 days in a row
Everyone moaning about Froome in 2012 is conveniently forgetting how much time Wiggins took in the TT. I’m not sure Froome could have overcome that given how the race would have been ridden by sky. Even if in some alternate universe it was man against man in the last couple of km on the last climb of the day, would froome have taken enough time? He couldn’t really gap Cobo that much in the vuelta though obviously cobo might have had some assistance
I think it would have been close, but he would have. If he had been joint leader he would also have had his team help him to mitigate his losses early in the race when he had a mechamical late in the stage.
Froome had a puncture early on and no one was there to bring him back. All resources were for Wiggins alone. Yes, the ITT gaps would still have stood but Froome could have destroyed him on the climbs, climbs which Wiggins was relying on Froome to tow him up.
And now we have a whole new dimension: If Froome had won 2011 Vuelta at the time, how would it have changed everything. I would say either 2012 Giro for Brad or no GT wins at all.
Everyone commenting on here is on Froomey's side on this, huh? I'm guessing it's just anti-Wiggo bias in general, regardless of this specific issue? Cycling is a mean & ruthless game; but, it is a team sport. &, it's never OK to lie to a teammate's face.
Who is lying though? Froome tells it differently. Unless you were there how do you know what was said? The fact is a guy won the Tour and he cannot even acknowledge the work a 7 time grand tour winner did to make his dream possible. The guy is pathetic.
@@chasemichealbrown its simple wiggins won 1 grand tour specifically designed for him where he clearly wasnt the best in that race froome lost a vuelta in 2011 thx to wiggins and "team orders" that he got after cobo dq waiting for wiggins as the leader of the race in tdf he got a puncture not a soul waited for then u add the fact after that year wiggins carreer literally had nothing relevant grand tour related while froome went on to become the best gc performer since peak contador so yeah kinda hard to believe on wiggins since he also promised to help froome back in 2013 tour and he wasnt even fit to participate in it
might sound like Brian Cox but he’s a brilliant director. Only his past with Armstrong caused him to leave sky (just to satisfy all the idiots who can’t move on). As far as cycling is concerned, he’s worth listening to.
The Sky team decided on a game plan, to give great Britain its first ever TDF winner. It was to be Brad with Froomie as a back up contender for the GC. Froomie thought Brad might be losing strength on the climbs and wanted to put more time into Nibali, his nearest rival so that he would have a better chance in the next days time-trial stage. Froomie is a worrier he panicked a bit. There was no real need for all the fuss and diva behaviour, Froomie was panicked that he might have to take on the role of GC contender with more to do than he wanted. That's all.
Don't like either rider. However, I'd take Wiggins side on this one. There was a plan, Froome didn't keep his word, and in a sport that relies heavily on rider cooperation, it is despicable that he go against plans and his word. Sky/Ineos, as has been said multiple times by Matt Keenan and Robbie McEwen, uses very boring...but affective strategy. It takes all the romance and excitement out of the Tour. Go ahead lemmings and criticize my personal, and biased, opinion. You all probably believed in Lance Armstrong too. Coincidentally, also boring to watch. Personally, I think the tour is better without Froome. Not a fan of Thomas either, but if he can pull it off without the boring tactics Ineos has customarily used, I can respect him for being a true champion.
You do realise that in the Armstrong era, he was a doper within a peloton of dopers? That entire era has an asterisk beside their names imo. It's a case of that doped guy beat those doped guys.
Great podcast this. I think this whole discussion just goes to show how hungry to win these champions are. It does seem to manifest as selfishness, although I'm sure they would call it being driven .
@@Dayumhesgood defamer also. It really is unfortunate that people like you don't get fined every time you publically defame someone on the internet. Practical impossibility of course but that would be a much better form of censorship than the disgraceful politically-biased form we currently have online. Defamation has always been an exception to freedom of speech so it would not even be a violation of the first amendment.
Not denying Wiggins career but the ONLY reason he is a grand tour winner is Froome was not allowed to beat him 2012. Simple as that
Froome only looked better than Wiggins on one stage. I remember a few times when he was struggling in 2012. People forget about that.
Nonsense, Froome was dominated by Brad in the TT, people forget that.
Wiggins probably would have won anyway because it as a TT heavy tour... Froome wasn’t aloud to attack in the mountains though. I’m not sure why this keeps getting brought up the in the end Froome DID go back and work for Wiggins and didn’t attack him, and did “keep his word”. end of story
The only reason they are both Grand Tour winners is persistent TUES doping and the UCI providing cover for both of them just as they did for Dopestrong for a decade. Wiggy never needed any TUES for allergies for any races except for the TDF. Froome has never been an asthmatic, never! He has never been diagnosed as an asthmatic by any independent doctor, and even in his own biography when he is discussing physical issues he had to overcome to get to the top, not once does he ever mention asthma as an issue. Never once! They are both doping cheats, and should be viewed that way!
Robert Gardner
BS until you bring up your evidences. Won Vuelta twice, won Giro fare and square, won TDF 4 times straight.
Again your evidences or shush..
Ok so my understanding of events was froome was told he would be protected as back up GC , when he punctured on stage 2 that promise was broken because though Brad was safe the team did not protect him. Then on that stage where froome "attacked him " he made sure Brad was safe in the GC group before attacking to re gain the time lost on stage 2 which is perfectly in his right. It is not his fault that Brad couldn't follow the other GC riders as they chased froome and to be fair as soon as Wiggins was dissloadged froome went back for him. Didn't see bernal do that for g more importantly didn't see g moan about it like a baby. I have no time for Brad's moaning particularly where he won the dam thing and cost froome the vuelta. Does he even remember froome riding for him while in the red jursy and sacrificing himself or when Cobo attacked for the second day in a row despite Wiggins not having th legs froome didn't change Cobo he helped Wiggins , and when g was clearly the stronger rider last year Wiggins worked for g almost costing him a podium. Froome is a better cyclist team player and pro then Wiggins ever was
Like little children,
Stop winging, wasn’t you who won in the end ?
talking like that ! just makes you look resentful, let it go man….
Froome was and still is one of the greatest cyclist. Im not even his Fan.
I disagree. They made an agreement, that means everything in cycling. If you go against it, then you deserve all the stick afterwards. Don't forget that Foome won so many times because he had a great team, all working to orders, just like he should of done.
I met Wiggins. I have to say it was a let down.
What were you expecting? Zeus?
@@gopr3117 no. I was expecting someone who was paid for an appearance to not looked completely bored and uninterested in making any conversation.
Given the ok to ride for GC Froome could have been on the top step.
1:40 Bradley's hair looks horrendous lololol
Looks like he is trying to be Noel Gallagher
Looks like my grand mother
@@Esperluet lmao I don't even think he could blame "helmet hair" on that one
Had his haircut while the helmet was still on
Handsome Hope 😂😂
I’d like to hear Dave Brailsford’s view. Froome said he told him they were both GC contenders.
My guess is that Brialsford knew the ability of both riders and was keeping his options open given Wiggin’s performance the year before. Whether as a GC contender or domestic use, Froome is a powerful rider.
jason schifo that’s what I thought too. But I don’t think this got portrayed to Wiggo. Or he ignored it. Or his ego didn’t accept it.
Froome was very much better.!
except he wasn’t. Wiggins smashed him in the time trials while we can only guess how much he might have taken on the climbs. Two minutes? Not enough to win
J NR yeah right. Wiggins would have had to walk up those mountains if he didn’t have froome
@Firsthgyhgyhuy Lastujhujhuj It was only one stage where Wiggins looked like he might be in trouble. Most winners have one bad stage. I remember Frooms looked like he was having a rest on one stage too and he needed the team as well. Wiggins could of left him behind on that day, if they were racing each other.
@@DrJRMCFC Wiggins took 2:00 on Froome in the prologue and time trials, so 2 minutes would have been enough (If Froome had been allowed to compete for the GC he would not have been abandoned by the team in stage 1). He would also have gained much more than two minutes in the mountains if he had been allowed to.
Had froome been allowed to race wiggins, he would have left him for dead in the mountains. Pretty pathetic to cry like this when you were protected and won anyway. Lucky to have won the biggest race of all I say.
You obviously don't know much about cycling. It was Froome's job to look after Wiggins that year. The team did the same for him in all his wins. If he wanted to race Wiggins in 2012, he needed to be in another team. Then he might not of looked so good.
@@sharpvidtube he's not talking about 'Froome's job', he said very clearly that if Froome had been allowed to race to his potential, he would have left Wiggins for dead which is completely true. While I don't like it when people break their promises, I would have also found it hard to be waiting around for a guy who I knew I could crush so easily and see him get all the glory. Wiggins is a puppet winner, the table was set for him specially both from a team perspective and a course perspective. Then there's the, ACHOOOO, sorry, Kenacort business, deary me. Personally, I'd be a bit embarrassed.
What was in the Jiffy bag?????
Luke Rowell who cares. Move on
He will never answer that...
Dope obviously. The whole of team sky was and still are on the gear
J NR no we are never moving on 😂 because it’s quite obvious it was dope.
Jiffys.
This podcast is awesome. Pretty much Sir Wiggo and his mates slagging off Belgium mechanics and Froomey, with some racing analysis thrown in. Can't wait for Cav to join in.
So people that were better than him basically.
Fact is Froome was better than him and if not for the idiots backing Wiggins in the 2011 Vuelta and 2012 Tour, Froome would not be far off the greatest GC rider of all time.
Backing the winner of the race is being an idiot?? 🤷♂️
@@rob-c. he didn't win the 2011 vuelta and he shouldn't have won the 2012 tour if froome was allowed to destroy him in the mountains.
If Froome in 2012 had the same role as G in 2018 he would have won the Tour, Sky put their faith in the wrong man for both of those races.
@@Ewane sky hav ruined cyling, i wonder why, some great climbers on dat team , same fellas not so long ago they could hardly climb out of bed, wake up boy an smell the roses
@@billytench4627 if you are suggesting they have had a large scale doping scheme, I can guarantee you are wrong.
What's to understand? He's 2nd on GC. You were first. He was better in the mountains. He came as a protected rider. Wasn't protected. Promises to HIM were broken first.
Abhishek Goyal brad was 100% the only GC leader for sky at that tour. Yes froome could be there as a back up but it was all in for brad.
Firsthgyhgyhuy Lastujhujhuj since your obviously in the know. Why don’t you give us all a comprehensive explanation on why a Domestique should attack the dedicated GC leader?
Ok so my understanding of events was froome was told he would be protected as back up GC , when he punctured on stage 2 that promise was broken because though Brad was safe the team did not protect him. Then on that stage where froome "attacked him " he made sure Brad was safe in the GC group before attacking to re gain the time lost on stage 2 which is perfectly in his right. It is not his fault that Brad couldn't follow the other GC riders as they chased froome and to be fair as soon as Wiggins was dissloadged froome went back for him. Didn't see bernal do that for g more importantly didn't see g moan about it like a baby. I have no time for Brad's moaning particularly where he won the dam thing and cost froome the vuelta. Does he even remember froome riding for him while in the red jursy and sacrificing himself or when Cobo attacked for the second day in a row despite Wiggins not having th legs froome didn't change Cobo he helped Wiggins , and when g was clearly the stronger rider last year Wiggins worked for g almost costing him a podium. Froome is a better cyclist team player and pro then Wiggins ever was.
@@jamesrodd8667 agree 100% and thx to cobo dq at least history will forever be right 1st brit to win a grand tour was froome and rightly so shoulda have had the 2012 tour too are u telling me that taking the time he lost due to the puncture and even if u include that at least in 2 stages he doesnt get 3 min on wiggins hardly thought so just look at wiggins got from contador in 2009 froome in 2012 wasnt so good on the mountains as peak contador but he could sit wiggins 3 days in a row
As Chris Froome was a Grand tour winner and Wiggins was not, he should have been allowed to attack out as respect for Froome and the Vuelta a España
Lol, retrospective grand tour win :D
@@timeluster I think Dan did a quick wiki check before that post lol
I hope this is sarcasm haha.
Everyone moaning about Froome in 2012 is conveniently forgetting how much time Wiggins took in the TT. I’m not sure Froome could have overcome that given how the race would have been ridden by sky. Even if in some alternate universe it was man against man in the last couple of km on the last climb of the day, would froome have taken enough time? He couldn’t really gap Cobo that much in the vuelta though obviously cobo might have had some assistance
I always thought the same thing
I think it would have been close, but he would have. If he had been joint leader he would also have had his team help him to mitigate his losses early in the race when he had a mechamical late in the stage.
Froome had a puncture early on and no one was there to bring him back. All resources were for Wiggins alone. Yes, the ITT gaps would still have stood but Froome could have destroyed him on the climbs, climbs which Wiggins was relying on Froome to tow him up.
And now we have a whole new dimension: If Froome had won 2011 Vuelta at the time, how would it have changed everything. I would say either 2012 Giro for Brad or no GT wins at all.
SRA SmokingPuppy841 wiggins was sick in the 2011 Vuelta though I believe.
Everyone commenting on here is on Froomey's side on this, huh? I'm guessing it's just anti-Wiggo bias in general, regardless of this specific issue? Cycling is a mean & ruthless game; but, it is a team sport. &, it's never OK to lie to a teammate's face.
Who is lying though? Froome tells it differently. Unless you were there how do you know what was said? The fact is a guy won the Tour and he cannot even acknowledge the work a 7 time grand tour winner did to make his dream possible. The guy is pathetic.
@@dionysiaex5538 True, we don't know who is lying. That's why I was surprised everyone was on Froome's side reflexively. People really hate Wiggo.
Lol, the first lie was by the team themselves when they brought Froome to the TdF as a protected rider but didn't help him when he punctured.
Abhishek Goyal spot on
@@chasemichealbrown its simple wiggins won 1 grand tour specifically designed for him where he clearly wasnt the best in that race froome lost a vuelta in 2011 thx to wiggins and "team orders" that he got after cobo dq waiting for wiggins as the leader of the race in tdf he got a puncture not a soul waited for then u add the fact after that year wiggins carreer literally had nothing relevant grand tour related while froome went on to become the best gc performer since peak contador so yeah kinda hard to believe on wiggins since he also promised to help froome back in 2013 tour and he wasnt even fit to participate in it
Cycling-The what have YOU done for me lately Sport?
Is that Sean Yates? Sounds like a total pillock.
might sound like Brian Cox but he’s a brilliant director. Only his past with Armstrong caused him to leave sky (just to satisfy all the idiots who can’t move on). As far as cycling is concerned, he’s worth listening to.
Yes, he’s widely known to be a moron
Had a stroke
*Sean yeets*
Mad Lad amazing comment, user name and profile picture. *slow clap*
wow.....lot of bitterness !....maybe brad should have pedaled faster and kept up with chris froome!!
hello of Argentina 🚴🚴🚴🚴🇦🇷🇦🇷
Are they speaking English?
Froome >wiggens this doesnt change. Sorry.
except in the TT and they were very long in 2012....
J NR and the TT means you’ve won the tour is it? It’s a 3 week race m8
최최최 and how many gold medals does froome have? In truth they are different types of riders
@@jsquire5pa and how many grand tours has wiggins have since froome became number 1 i give u a hint its similar to an O
Wiggens😂
Let it go
So, Bernal; watch and listen young pup. Your time will come, just not this year
Steve R lol
@@petercarty9752 🙄🙈🙈🙈😂😂😂
The Sky team decided on a game plan, to give great Britain its first ever TDF winner. It was to be Brad with Froomie as a back up contender for the GC. Froomie thought Brad might be losing strength on the climbs and wanted to put more time into Nibali, his nearest rival so that he would have a better chance in the next days time-trial stage. Froomie is a worrier he panicked a bit. There was no real need for all the fuss and diva behaviour, Froomie was panicked that he might have to take on the role of GC
contender with more to do than he wanted. That's all.
Don't like either rider. However, I'd take Wiggins side on this one. There was a plan, Froome didn't keep his word, and in a sport that relies heavily on rider cooperation, it is despicable that he go against plans and his word.
Sky/Ineos, as has been said multiple times by Matt Keenan and Robbie McEwen, uses very boring...but affective strategy. It takes all the romance and excitement out of the Tour.
Go ahead lemmings and criticize my personal, and biased, opinion. You all probably believed in Lance Armstrong too. Coincidentally, also boring to watch.
Personally, I think the tour is better without Froome. Not a fan of Thomas either, but if he can pull it off without the boring tactics Ineos has customarily used, I can respect him for being a true champion.
You do realise that in the Armstrong era, he was a doper within a peloton of dopers? That entire era has an asterisk beside their names imo. It's a case of that doped guy beat those doped guys.
Is that Henning Wehn?
Renegade ha
Great podcast this. I think this whole discussion just goes to show how hungry to win these champions are. It does seem to manifest as selfishness, although I'm sure they would call it being driven .
Jesus, all these fan boi comments. Get a life and get out on your bikes, then you might be a fraction of either of these guys 😂😂😂😂😂
Froome seven grand tour wins.
Jeff froome doper also
@@Dayumhesgood And you know because?
@@Dayumhesgood defamer also.
It really is unfortunate that people like you don't get fined every time you publically defame someone on the internet. Practical impossibility of course but that would be a much better form of censorship than the disgraceful politically-biased form we currently have online.
Defamation has always been an exception to freedom of speech so it would not even be a violation of the first amendment.
@@Dayumhesgood He was cleared by the UCI and WADA.
Wiggins and Froome....The question is who was the bigger doper?
Surely not
First
nobody cares lol
127th