Despite mostly agreeing with her, I found this woman to be pretty insufferable, mainly due to her overzealous tone. She gave me some rabid right-winger vibes, not really someone who is thinking in a calm, reasoned way. She is a part of the problem, fanning the flames, not a positive force. But the segment at 1:22:50 was absolute cringe, and I'm saying this as someone who has played piano and guitar since I was like 10 years old and studied, and composed, music on some level since then, including counterpoint, harmony, and all the other theory that she gushes about here. This rant was absolute snob cringe and made me physically uncomfortable because of how stupid it was. She's basically saying "oranges are more expressive than apples!" Complete nonsense. Just because classical (or "art music" broadly, if you will) is arguably more "sophisticated" in a purely technical sense doesn't really say anything about its expressive depth, and that depth is ultimately dependent on the individual judgment. There is no objectivity there whatsoever. She's basically parroting the knee-jerk opinion that classical is automatically better than anything, and that will be the case forever. It's like she lacks any self-awareness. Everyone likes to gush over Mozart and Beethoven because it's hammered into everyone's heads culturally that they're musical gods, and nothing could ever compare. Even people who have never heard anything by those composers. That's why you get idiotic nonsense like this woman's rant here.
everyone knows the calm and sensibly thinking people are the ones whov oted for an illegitimate vegetable destroying the country, over the best presiden in modern history
Informative discussion; as Social Behaviour becomes more of a broader issue cannot be left to government alone to solve. It's our civic duty to implement the Values we consider culturally acceptable from home and education in school. "How to Think and what matters as social behavior. " Thank you Michael Shermer and Heather Mac Donald.
Her new book was wonderful. If you read it, though, make sure to do so with no nearby sharp objects. She puts a million Watt light on the craziness, the literal insanity, of our current predicament.
I have just finished listening to this on Audible, just about to start the second listen tonight. I enjoyed it very much, even though it was shocking and depressing.
I’m concerned that a discussion about merit does not address legacy students and the advantages wealthy families have in our higher educational system. I believe legacy students account for something like 33% of Harvard’s class of 2022 and 14-19% of Yale and Princeton incoming 2023 class. It’s not simply wealth but that these students have breaks on tests scores or are put ahead of “merit” students and minorities.
That does explain how students are sometimes selected for acceptance, but it does not help answer the question of why some demographics consistently underperform once they are accepted to the university.
this is such a disgusting racist trope , like something you would hear on a maga message board. Shermer made her feel comfortable enough to expose her real racist self
I get her point. Growing I, if a local family was thought to be “poor” they sure as hell didn’t have cell phones or video game systems! They could barely afford decent shoes - that’s what actually being poor means to people like me and Heather
@@brianmeen2158 wireless companies have been subsidizing the cost of cellphones and offering payment plans for years. I'm pretty sure if shoe companies did that many more people would have had shoes back in the 50s.
@michaeljfigueroa This is such a great comment...I love to see people actually thinking & examining data correctly & fully...we should always be thinking "ya, but is that right?" Well done, you get a crisp $20 bill, I'm mailing it to you now.
Heather MacDonald brillant! of course Merit is Justice ...the only way to knos ours place in Society.. Race should be avoir from the dicctionary. Thank you.
It is not until we encounter the Shermers and the MacDonalds of the world that we begin to know and appreciate the quality of information we have been fed by mass media. Absolute trash of the highest order. Yet, speaking the truth invites all manner of revolt. They are both to be commended for the information they are passing on to us. It is a courageous thing to do and I appreciate it very much. I will be following Heather more and more in the future. Thank you both for a great discussion. 👌👍💙
Omg, when Heather got pissy at Shermer for talking about why classical is better than pop was so funny and adorable, like an angry granny scolding a kid xD Idk why she got so weirdly emotional?? :D Great podcast n keep up the good work!
lol, came back to comment this. It was hilarious that she kept berating him on his own show 🤣🤣🤣 "this is a stupid conversation Michael, I don't know why we are talking about this?"
That was a really odd segment. Shermer could have refuted her entire rant with "....so you say....". I.e. music preference is entirely subjective. You CAN say that classical music is perhaps more complex than stuff like rap or pop, but that does not necessarily make it better (I do prefer it, but that's just me). Her whole bit about "crushing emotion" had me rolling my eyes, though, since it sound incredible pretentious.
@@TheFuzzician Nah, classical is objectively better as art. You can have a subjective preference for inferior art, but the actual form of classical composition is much superior to contemporary consumer pop.
@@sigiligus I have a PhD in music theory and absolutely love classical music, but there’s no objective measure of aesthetic quality. She’s judging rock music on the classical rules of counterpoint. If she judged classical music on the quality of guitar solos and drum fills, she would say classical is inferior. There were several times in this interview where she confuses her opinion with fact. That’s especially funny given how she complains about opinion-based policy.
Interesting talk but yes the "why are we talking about this" and she should have bowed out saying she did not know enough since by her own admission she stopped exploring anything but classical decades ago. And if you want to talk about complexity jazz might well win out over classical. As Tomkins says there are many ways to judge quality in music - music can stir you to your depths without necessarily being overly complicated or even beauifully played.
Was a cop in the South in the 70s and 80s; agree with most of your comments. Standards have gone down. Hired in the 70s, applicants had to have good credit, no arrests and good driving record, no drug use and excellent references. Now, larceny arrests are allowed, drug use at various levels allowed, etc.. It’s going to get worse. Police service will decline as a result. And, no one talks about black on black crime and those folks are the ones suffering the most; been that way for decades. If Black Lives Matter, don’t those black on Black Lives Matter? Race always seem to be the excuse; not personal responsibility.
Where is Black Lives Matter? There were marching nonstop in 2020 but now they are nowhere to be seen. Was it all due to a political run? That’s part of the problem
Don’t rely on individuals (experts should work within a group within a plan made by the government), better to ask people within those communities themselves instead of ….
The contribution to music and culture by Americans should never be understated. Not sure why Heather had to be so subjective on this point. The late 60’s and 70’s American contribution to rock, Motown and general music culture should be cherished and one that Americans should be proud of
That’s a very touchy issue I’ve noticed. I do feel there are mild genetic differences between groups but you can be assured universities are not examining them anytime soon. So this issue will not get fixed if there even is a fix
People are so shocked when they hear someone speak forthright and with facts, it's becoming a rarity in our society, you're more likely to be targeted or ostracised as a result. And unfortunately, mud sticks, something the intersectionalists use routinely and with impunity.
It is a myth that the blind auditions changed the compositions of orchestras. Although millions of people have made this claim, It is only because they are listening to each other. The statistics in the original study indicate otherwise.
James Lindsey's recent speech at the EU really gets to the heart of all this... Also, isn't there an actual financial incentive scheme set up by Blackrock and Vangaurd to push intersectionalism through brands and companies, can't remember what they're called off the top of my head, but I'm certain it's a big thing.
Patchwork techniques have limits, it does work only to a specific limit, but at the end that will make it impossible to go further. deep understanding is essential in science.
If you witness ethnic or religious groupings or… that become more intense and clear (closed society) in any country, be confident that whoever leads that country is not useful for running a country. Gathering to preserve inherited traditions is not a problem. The problem is with blocs that are for the purpose of isolation (they couldn’t find a place in the state). Here look for someone who leads the state, because the way he manages the state is the real reason.
Just because classical music is more layered with more harmonics does not mean it's better or more evocative than classic rock. That's like saying Kansas is better than Bob Dylan because they have 6 part harmonies. The simple blownin in the wind can be as emotionally complex as any Brahms lullaby. She knows nothing about music. In the year 2300, they will appreciate both the explosion of creativity in 60s with Mccartney lennon, dylan, jagger richards, hendrix, as well as Jazz standards, and as well as classical music. Total nincompoop.
Nope. So much more going on in classical. Won't even consider rap as music. Early jazz had moments of insight, but became lost like "modern" atonal classical. We've have lost our bearings.
@oldernu1250 I technically agree with you, but disagree in spirit. I don't get rap or hip pop, & certainly at least most of it is objectively less technically complex than our beloved classical pieces, but it's not less emotionally complex or important to the audience it's made for. Dismissing art that we think misses us & the things we value is to dismiss the very people who do enjoy the art, & that's a bridge too far for me.
This book is a lot more neutral in its tone but I read her book War On Cops recently and yeah I also got the impression that she's quite racist. That book had a lot of important statistical information in it, and I generally agreed with her thesis, but it was hard to get down because of the unbelievably racialized and hostile language. And I'm not a woke person either, which is why I watch this podcast.
I think you do make a good point...she points out a lot of problems with black America, but she obviously does so with malice in her heart towards them, so it just ends up looking like the rantings of some racist lady.
@@scottsherman5262This is pure nonsense. She’s exasperated by the lunacy of our present condition. She is absolutely correct on the facts, and it’s CRITICAL for WHITE people to begin engaging with this cancerous issue. She is paving the way for wider transparency
I don’t comment on you tube videos often. I’m a black adult who watch your videos. I’m feeling a little let down by Heather Mac Donald. What should I do about the rest of my life, could I be doomed?
Do you ever watch The Glenn Show? Glenn Loury's discussions with John McWhorter have gone a long way in helping me stay sane, as well as hopeful. Also, do you ever watch Uniting America with John Wood, Jr.? John Wood Jr. is one of the good ones.
I’m not sure this was the best discussion I’ve heard on this subject, or even from Mac Donald herself. I’m with the other person who replied, Glenn Loury and John McWhorter have a better more hopeful way of putting things. We’re moving forward, take heart.
@@Zayden. It’s almost impossible to go deep during an interview. The Q&A can lead the listener to further inquiry, like reading her book, or other sources. Marxist Criticism isn’t something most people want to wrap their heads around. I think she is mainly upset by the lowering of academic standards, and wants to maintain classical western culture. I’m not referring to past racist behaviors and evil treatment of black people. I certainly don’t think she is condoning that!
@@benjaminperez969 Glenn & John are both wonderful, but I find Wood to be, well, wooden. He's too much of a politician for my tastes...he so seldom says anything of any real value because he's so concerned with how he's coming off. He does seem to be a genuinely good man, for sure, but imo, not someone I go to for in depth discussions on race.
Disappointed that Sherman didn't push back in anything but the music. Her rhetoric it's so inflammatory and over the top. Any point that she might be right about, gets blurred by the way she talks about it. She's just being incendiary and preaching to the converted.
Both merit and identity. If two or more are equally qualified and one is vastly underrepresented in a company or the country, and bringing diversity will help the future of that company, then it’s no problem going with the underrepresented identity. You can have both
What you are talking about is nothing but a mere discussion of the symptoms (it has no real value and does not solve the problem), it is the government's job to improve the standard of living of isolated communities and integrate them into society as a whole within a plan.
No. You work and get ahead. You don't, you won't. If you can't do your job right, why should someone hire you? Poorly educated girls having kids with poorly educated boys does not work well.
But the govt has already dumped trillions of dollars into these under developed communities and after decades it has not helped! So pouring even more money or tearing down more statues is not going to help. In fact, doing either would meet the definition of insanity
Brilliant woman writes book to justify personal beliefs. I got tired of listening. She fails to discuss diversity as a portfolio of "natural bets". Her bias is obvious and she fails to discuss other sub-cultures with "white" cultures - E.g., Christen, Mormon, KKK, Evangelical, Jewish, etc. etc. Besides Asian. Natural selection works on ideas as well as biology. I doubt that we know how to guide our self selection process. But we are doing it.
I also got tired of listening and shut it off early. She's obviously a very angry woman who lacks objectivity. Instead of keeping an open mind to new/evolved ideas she just raises her voice and talks over people.
Nope, complexity, 'sophistication', counterpoint, harmonic complexity, form etc don't play any role in the value of any music. She's conflicting taste with artistic/musical worth. The whole discussion about music, not Lucerne Festival where you talked about the programming, is very out of place. I must give her credit though she didn't really want to get into that, but then still did... So...
this is not 100% scientifically correct but just to make things simpler: they can imagine emotions as built-in characteristics and feelings as conscious interpretations of emotions (this is not 100% correct), because it’s far more complicated than that (this is only to make things simpler) probably it’s better to change or improve some terms.
How do you know what depths of emotion Stairway to Heaven "plumbs" in me? Other than that stupid take on the objectivity of quality in the Arts, I agree with everything this woman said.
@@b.g.5869 you're half right. I need to listen again, not so much for her drivel, but to see if Michael was half asleep or trolling. Edit: Huh, I've read many of his books and seen him in person and in debates, but he is blind to the systemic racism in America. He isn't concerned at all about gerrymandering against black districts. He doesn't hear her supremacist dog whistles. Probably he doesn't care about the issue and isn't qualified to express an educated opinion. Have to look for his Michael Moore interviews.
@@jimgauth You're talking like a cultist. You haven't provided any evidence for your assertions, which are essentially all simply ad hominem attacks and unsupported assertions peppered with ideological buzzwords such as "systemic racism".
I was wondering about Einstein too! How did he connected gravity with space! it turned out that he used patchwork techniques too (no deep understanding), they get each other ideas, science is an accumulated scientific knowledge, so they have to build upon previous work, but they use patchwork techniques (how to make equations work), but no deep understanding! that’s why they are stucked and couldn’t go further.
There were many good physicists such as Newton, Maxwell, Planck, …. etc., and many others relied on patchwork techniques to fill in the gaps, derive new equations, build assumptions and predictions, but that will never work anymore, because that reached its limits (without a deep understanding of the fundamentals of physics, the situation will only become worser), dependence on pseudo-physicists is a waste of time and will only make the situation worse., it’s better to invest and rely on future generations. but those who get used to illusions will never abandon their illusions.
Patchwork techniques is similar to Newton’s constant , Planck’s constant , ….etc (they were real good scientists and their work is so valuable) but not enough, big G is the manifestation of Gravity itself (gravity has to do with space, energy, mass, speed …) they have to understand the deep relationship between units (incomplete work) constants are not just a numbers, even numbers have deep meaning, similar to infinity as a concept (humans never came into existence by chance, of course that has nothing to do with so-called gods,..etc but related to cycle two “it’s a kind of science machine of logic, that’s why humans can use logic to solve scientific problems “the better logic the closer to the correct scientific formula “). very likely space is one indivisible unit and that related to fine structure constant (correct physics equations must maintain that),…. etc. very likely infinity is a concept (lack of deep understanding). by the way, Newton, Maxwell and Planck were the best scientists. it’s hard to explain but to concise: GR does work because Einstein connected gravity to space (incomplete work “he used patchwork techniques”) he used G in his equations without deep understanding. he worked hard using patchwork techniques, actually at the beginning he surprised me but later I recognised what he did (good work but incomplete and misleading because of the lack of deep understanding of the fundamentals of physics).
You can find more details on closer to truth RUclips channel and later on Unzicker's Real Physics, but they hid or deleted my thoughts purposely. Dirac was a good scientist too, there are very important thoughts about LNH (connecting both levels: subatomic and cosmological levels),……etc
Both levels (subatomic and cosmological levels) are strongly related, that has to do with so-called entanglement and superposition,…etc the current understanding of space, gravity, constants, energy, mass, velocity,…etc is incomplete to incorrect. (Physics reached its limits because of the lack of deep understanding of the fundamentals of physics such as space, gravity, constants,….etc).
It’s hard to understand what do I mean without reading what I wrote years ago, but maybe this can help: they look for gravity while G is the manifestation of Gravity itself ! Understanding gravity comes through deep understanding of units such as space, speed, mass,…etc it’s not what they think! that’s is why it’s better to rely and invest in future generations (hard scientific work that needs real scientists with a new revolutionary way of thinking).
The way the two teachers on MATH SCIENCE and PowerCert RUclips channels, it’s important to recognise who good teachers are: they have good knowledge, they don’t show off, dedicated to their work, enjoy their work, do their best, …… etc they have to study those two cases (it’s important to focus on teaching process to be able to make real good scientists). teaching is an art (it’s essential to make children love science).
Another great interview by Michael Shermer. I didn't care for the part where she got all bitchy in the discussion about music. Geez lady, a lot of interviewing someone is about getting to know them. Your book was well plugged, and I will most likely get myself a copy.
Einstein was a good physicist no doubt but not that so good, he is genius only compared to nowadays pseudoscientists. He used patchwork techniques extravagantly! they were hard workers (the way they fixed the equations using patchwork techniques). Gravity is connected to space, but they didn’t found that because of deep understanding, the way they connected space to time in so-called space-time fabric indicate that came out of patchwork techniques not true deep understanding. Happy thoughts too ! The way they made equations work indicate to hard work on patchwork techniques!
There’s something very important about how they interpret feelings, emotions, affects, ….etc In general, they did not invent these terms, but rather tried to interpret them scientifically, but they mixed things up! they can’t recognise that there are self concept and personal identity which generated by self concept itself in a very sophisticated process. that’s why they are so confused about feelings, emotions,…etc what confuses them more is that both consciousness type one and personal identity are generated synchronously within larger process. personal identity ist temporary representation of self concept by self concept itself. what’s mentioned above is 100% correct.
The principle of merit is derived from the competitive nature of, science, the economy and international relations. The merit system substituted wealth and power as criteria for participation and advancement. However, the affirmative action of the 1960 showed that traditional excluded groups like women and blacks , if they had the opportunity, would present equal merit, even higher in the case of women. Equal opportunity works.
About four years ago, I watched a video, the timing of that video, the way he thinks, his level of thinking,…etc Everything was dicey until I got a response to one of the e-mails! They came up with the idea through medical cases that had an almost complete degeneration of the brain, and only the brain stem and some cases of severe brain injuries remained, but I knew all of this by mere individual thinking and other events that would not be useful to mention because it is difficult to understand. I built everything myself and I noticed the many terms Which they use, most of them are superfluous and they confuse things with each other except for several errors that make their guesses useless.
I love how she calls Joseph Bologne (JB) a mediocrity...my goodness. I mean, I know that she's really into classical music, so I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt & assume that she does really consider him a mediocrity, but does she perhaps feel this way because he had a black mother? I mean...yes, I'm just going to go ahead & answer my own question, it's yes. I assume she also blames all of the violent crime stats during the French Revolution on JB as well.
What a horrible woman. Sad to live a life of hate like she does. She claims that BLM people do not care about black people? Is she a mind reader? You can argue against their methods or their stats, but how do you stereotype a whole group of people like that?
I'm sort of shocked you both doubt intergenerational knowledge and blame availability heuristics. Based on availability heuristics. Such as internet comments available to you
I do not know if this is related but as a single white man watching information about what women like and some is related to sexually pleasing a woman. They usually show a black man with a white woman and rarely show a white man with a black woman. Except for the super hero the Flash (white) married to a black woman I do not seem to see a white man with a black woman very often on TV and movies. I am mostly a movie fan. I have wondered about this as it seems to occur most of the time with newer content. I wonder now if this is related to the issues discussed in the book.
I like her feistiness, and even her general over the top-ness, but she really goes overboard on music and convincing herself that certain 18th or 19th century music set in Europe was the absolute pinnacle. OK, some good evidence here. Bach, especially for me, is amazing and vital to this day. But you know Pink Floyd did some special things. And the Beatles were no musical slouches. Her total denigration of modern music is ridiculous but I enjoyed it anyway.
A good example of living inside an echo chamber and needing to read more books outside your scope and challenges your preconceived notions of the world. Take for example Eric Garner. Not the chokehold but before that. On that day, the precinct sergeant saw Garner on his morning ride and told a subordinate to make an arrest. For what? For the stats. Why for the stats? Exactly. Mac Donald and her cohort always resort the lazy stereotype that blacks are inherently lazy and violent because of "family breakdown." No, lady. Not even close to the truth.
Heather McDonald's work is truly an eye-opener! This lady is courageous enough to speak the Truth, and it's remarkable!...
Now we know why mainstream media shuns MacDonald!!
Yea, she completely crushes the mainstream narrative. It is shocking to me how broken mainstream media is
She was a regular guest on Tucker. Now that he's gone, Heather is really shut out from reaching a mass audience. Sad.
Despite mostly agreeing with her, I found this woman to be pretty insufferable, mainly due to her overzealous tone. She gave me some rabid right-winger vibes, not really someone who is thinking in a calm, reasoned way. She is a part of the problem, fanning the flames, not a positive force.
But the segment at 1:22:50 was absolute cringe, and I'm saying this as someone who has played piano and guitar since I was like 10 years old and studied, and composed, music on some level since then, including counterpoint, harmony, and all the other theory that she gushes about here. This rant was absolute snob cringe and made me physically uncomfortable because of how stupid it was. She's basically saying "oranges are more expressive than apples!" Complete nonsense. Just because classical (or "art music" broadly, if you will) is arguably more "sophisticated" in a purely technical sense doesn't really say anything about its expressive depth, and that depth is ultimately dependent on the individual judgment. There is no objectivity there whatsoever.
She's basically parroting the knee-jerk opinion that classical is automatically better than anything, and that will be the case forever. It's like she lacks any self-awareness. Everyone likes to gush over Mozart and Beethoven because it's hammered into everyone's heads culturally that they're musical gods, and nothing could ever compare. Even people who have never heard anything by those composers. That's why you get idiotic nonsense like this woman's rant here.
Struck me as snobby and missing the point of art.
everyone knows the calm and sensibly thinking people are the ones whov oted for an illegitimate vegetable destroying the country, over the best presiden in modern history
Bippity boppity
Informative discussion; as Social Behaviour becomes more of a broader issue cannot be left to government alone to solve. It's our civic duty to implement the Values we consider culturally acceptable from home and education in school. "How to Think and what matters as social behavior. " Thank you Michael Shermer and Heather Mac Donald.
Well said and I totally agree. We can’t rely on others or the government to cure the ills of our community and culture. It’s in our control.
Her new book was wonderful. If you read it, though, make sure to do so with no nearby sharp objects. She puts a million Watt light on the craziness, the literal insanity, of our current predicament.
Heather is a Champ! Fighting the good fight.
I’m saving this one to listen to as I work tomorrow. Looking forward, thank you xox
I have just finished listening to this on Audible, just about to start the second listen tonight. I enjoyed it very much, even though it was shocking and depressing.
Her two other books are great too!
She has an even older book called THE BURDEN OF BAD IDEAS which is excellent. It’s a collection of articles but it works very well as a book.
Just purchased both
I’m concerned that a discussion about merit does not address legacy students and the advantages wealthy families have in our higher educational system. I believe legacy students account for something like 33% of Harvard’s class of 2022 and 14-19% of Yale and Princeton incoming 2023 class. It’s not simply wealth but that these students have breaks on tests scores or are put ahead of “merit” students and minorities.
That does explain how students are sometimes selected for acceptance, but it does not help answer the question of why some demographics consistently underperform once they are accepted to the university.
They aren't financially deprived because they have smart phones?
this is such a disgusting racist trope , like something you would hear on a maga message board. Shermer made her feel comfortable enough to expose her real racist self
I get her point. Growing I, if a local family was thought to be “poor” they sure as hell didn’t have cell phones or video game systems! They could barely afford decent shoes - that’s what actually being poor means to people like me and Heather
@@brianmeen2158 wireless companies have been subsidizing the cost of cellphones and offering payment plans for years. I'm pretty sure if shoe companies did that many more people would have had shoes back in the 50s.
@michaeljfigueroa This is such a great comment...I love to see people actually thinking & examining data correctly & fully...we should always be thinking "ya, but is that right?" Well done, you get a crisp $20 bill, I'm mailing it to you now.
Heather MacDonald brillant! of course Merit is Justice ...the only way to knos ours place in Society.. Race should be avoir from the dicctionary. Thank you.
Good interview and a good guest.
It is not until we encounter the Shermers and the MacDonalds of the world that we begin to know and appreciate the quality of information we have been fed by mass media. Absolute trash of the highest order. Yet, speaking the truth invites all manner of revolt. They are both to be commended for the information they are passing on to us. It is a courageous thing to do and I appreciate it very much. I will be following Heather more and more in the future. Thank you both for a great discussion. 👌👍💙
Omg, when Heather got pissy at Shermer for talking about why classical is better than pop was so funny and adorable, like an angry granny scolding a kid xD Idk why she got so weirdly emotional?? :D Great podcast n keep up the good work!
lol, came back to comment this. It was hilarious that she kept berating him on his own show 🤣🤣🤣 "this is a stupid conversation Michael, I don't know why we are talking about this?"
That was a really odd segment. Shermer could have refuted her entire rant with "....so you say....". I.e. music preference is entirely subjective. You CAN say that classical music is perhaps more complex than stuff like rap or pop, but that does not necessarily make it better (I do prefer it, but that's just me). Her whole bit about "crushing emotion" had me rolling my eyes, though, since it sound incredible pretentious.
@@TheFuzzician Nah, classical is objectively better as art. You can have a subjective preference for inferior art, but the actual form of classical composition is much superior to contemporary consumer pop.
@@sigiligus I have a PhD in music theory and absolutely love classical music, but there’s no objective measure of aesthetic quality. She’s judging rock music on the classical rules of counterpoint. If she judged classical music on the quality of guitar solos and drum fills, she would say classical is inferior. There were several times in this interview where she confuses her opinion with fact. That’s especially funny given how she complains about opinion-based policy.
Interesting talk but yes the "why are we talking about this" and she should have bowed out saying she did not know enough since by her own admission she stopped exploring anything but classical decades ago. And if you want to talk about complexity jazz might well win out over classical. As Tomkins says there are many ways to judge quality in music - music can stir you to your depths without necessarily being overly complicated or even beauifully played.
Was a cop in the South in the 70s and 80s; agree with most of your comments. Standards have gone down. Hired in the 70s, applicants had to have good credit, no arrests and good driving record, no drug use and excellent references. Now, larceny arrests are allowed, drug use at various levels allowed, etc.. It’s going to get worse. Police service will decline as a result. And, no one talks about black on black crime and those folks are the ones suffering the most; been that way for decades. If Black Lives Matter, don’t those black on Black Lives Matter? Race always seem to be the excuse; not personal responsibility.
Where is Black Lives Matter? There were marching nonstop in 2020 but now they are nowhere to be seen. Was it all due to a political run? That’s part of the problem
Don’t rely on individuals (experts should work within a group within a plan made by the government), better to ask people within those communities themselves instead of ….
The contribution to music and culture by Americans should never be understated. Not sure why Heather had to be so subjective on this point. The late 60’s and 70’s American contribution to rock, Motown and general music culture should be cherished and one that Americans should be proud of
37:20 neither Shermer nor MacDonald are brave enough to discuss genetics.
That’s a very touchy issue I’ve noticed. I do feel there are mild genetic differences between groups but you can be assured universities are not examining them anytime soon. So this issue will not get fixed if there even is a fix
Fantastic /great to hear the other and factual information
When I was 21, the Detroit Symphony hired a black bassist because he was black. A donor had made this a requirement.
People are so shocked when they hear someone speak forthright and with facts, it's becoming a rarity in our society, you're more likely to be targeted or ostracised as a result. And unfortunately, mud sticks, something the intersectionalists use routinely and with impunity.
Speaking of facts. Doesn't almost every marginalized group in any society have much higher violent crime?
@@michaeljfigueroa Yes. There have been studies that suggest.. Oh, never mind it's not inside the Overton window.
It is a myth that the blind auditions changed the compositions of orchestras. Although millions of people have made this claim, It is only because they are listening to each other. The statistics in the original study indicate otherwise.
James Lindsey's recent speech at the EU really gets to the heart of all this... Also, isn't there an actual financial incentive scheme set up by Blackrock and Vangaurd to push intersectionalism through brands and companies, can't remember what they're called off the top of my head, but I'm certain it's a big thing.
Patchwork techniques have limits, it does work only to a specific limit, but at the end that will make it impossible to go further. deep understanding is essential in science.
What does matter more or what should matter more?
Wow she went hard on Led Zeppelin and CCR.
No doubt Beethoven would have loved Zeppelin. I am thinking Bach would have been more into the Beatles and Pink Floyd.
@@chrisocony Beethoven would be into heavy duty techno.
If you witness ethnic or religious groupings or… that become more intense and clear (closed society) in any country, be confident that whoever leads that country is not useful for running a country. Gathering to preserve inherited traditions is not a problem. The problem is with blocs that are for the purpose of isolation (they couldn’t find a place in the state). Here look for someone who leads the state, because the way he manages the state is the real reason.
Just because classical music is more layered with more harmonics does not mean it's better or more evocative than classic rock. That's like saying Kansas is better than Bob Dylan because they have 6 part harmonies. The simple blownin in the wind can be as emotionally complex as any Brahms lullaby.
She knows nothing about music. In the year 2300, they will appreciate both the explosion of creativity in 60s with Mccartney lennon, dylan, jagger richards, hendrix, as well as Jazz standards, and as well as classical music. Total nincompoop.
Nope. So much more going on in classical. Won't even consider rap as music. Early jazz had moments of insight, but became lost like "modern" atonal classical. We've have lost our bearings.
@oldernu1250 I technically agree with you, but disagree in spirit. I don't get rap or hip pop, & certainly at least most of it is objectively less technically complex than our beloved classical pieces, but it's not less emotionally complex or important to the audience it's made for. Dismissing art that we think misses us & the things we value is to dismiss the very people who do enjoy the art, & that's a bridge too far for me.
Not gonna lie she seems like she may be a tad racist (and I'm not a woke person who calls everyone racist)
I think what you're picking up on is that she does not like black people. Oh, racist...ya, you got it.
Where is your evidence?
I honestly don’t even know what the term ‘racist’ means anymore as it’s been so overused
This book is a lot more neutral in its tone but I read her book War On Cops recently and yeah I also got the impression that she's quite racist. That book had a lot of important statistical information in it, and I generally agreed with her thesis, but it was hard to get down because of the unbelievably racialized and hostile language. And I'm not a woke person either, which is why I watch this podcast.
@@thefuturist47 Your perception is your reality. As long as I know, she is not a racist.
This was painful to listen to -- talk about a "messenger" problem.
No no. Total listener problem. She is an utter legend.
I think you do make a good point...she points out a lot of problems with black America, but she obviously does so with malice in her heart towards them, so it just ends up looking like the rantings of some racist lady.
@@scottsherman5262This is pure nonsense. She’s exasperated by the lunacy of our present condition. She is absolutely correct on the facts, and it’s CRITICAL for WHITE people to begin engaging with this cancerous issue. She is paving the way for wider transparency
@@scottsherman5262can you quantify what makes you say that?
I don’t comment on you tube videos often. I’m a black adult who watch your videos. I’m feeling a little let down by Heather Mac Donald. What should I do about the rest of my life, could I be doomed?
Do you ever watch The Glenn Show? Glenn Loury's discussions with John McWhorter have gone a long way in helping me stay sane, as well as hopeful. Also, do you ever watch Uniting America with John Wood, Jr.? John Wood Jr. is one of the good ones.
I’m not sure this was the best discussion I’ve heard on this subject, or even from Mac Donald herself. I’m with the other person who replied, Glenn Loury and John McWhorter have a better more hopeful way of putting things. We’re moving forward, take heart.
Heather is impressionistic in her analysis. Sticking only to surface level facts. You need to go deeper, and that can be done with Marxist analysis.
@@Zayden. It’s almost impossible to go deep during an interview. The Q&A can lead the listener to further inquiry, like reading her book, or other sources. Marxist Criticism isn’t something most people want to wrap their heads around. I think she is mainly upset by the lowering of academic standards, and wants to maintain classical western culture. I’m not referring to past racist behaviors and evil treatment of black people. I certainly don’t think she is condoning that!
@@benjaminperez969 Glenn & John are both wonderful, but I find Wood to be, well, wooden. He's too much of a politician for my tastes...he so seldom says anything of any real value because he's so concerned with how he's coming off. He does seem to be a genuinely good man, for sure, but imo, not someone I go to for in depth discussions on race.
Disappointed that Sherman didn't push back in anything but the music. Her rhetoric it's so inflammatory and over the top. Any point that she might be right about, gets blurred by the way she talks about it.
She's just being incendiary and preaching to the converted.
Both merit and identity. If two or more are equally qualified and one is vastly underrepresented in a company or the country, and bringing diversity will help the future of that company, then it’s no problem going with the underrepresented identity. You can have both
What you are talking about is nothing but a mere discussion of the symptoms (it has no real value and does not solve the problem), it is the government's job to improve the standard of living of isolated communities and integrate them into society as a whole within a plan.
No. You work and get ahead. You don't, you won't. If you can't do your job right, why should someone hire you? Poorly educated girls having kids with poorly educated boys does not work well.
But the govt has already dumped trillions of dollars into these under developed communities and after decades it has not helped! So pouring even more money or tearing down more statues is not going to help. In fact, doing either would meet the definition of insanity
Not a skin color issue; culture.
14:00 usually media is just a tool to serve who pays more (media can’t help in such issues).
Thank God for Heather.
Brilliant woman writes book to justify personal beliefs.
I got tired of listening.
She fails to discuss diversity as a portfolio of "natural bets". Her bias is obvious and she fails to discuss other sub-cultures with "white" cultures - E.g., Christen, Mormon, KKK, Evangelical, Jewish, etc. etc. Besides Asian.
Natural selection works on ideas as well as biology. I doubt that we know how to guide our self selection process. But we are doing it.
I also got tired of listening and shut it off early. She's obviously a very angry woman who lacks objectivity. Instead of keeping an open mind to new/evolved ideas she just raises her voice and talks over people.
I'm not sold on the "brilliant" part
Thank you for telling the host of his arrested development
Nope, complexity, 'sophistication', counterpoint, harmonic complexity, form etc don't play any role in the value of any music. She's conflicting taste with artistic/musical worth. The whole discussion about music, not Lucerne Festival where you talked about the programming, is very out of place. I must give her credit though she didn't really want to get into that, but then still did... So...
this is not 100% scientifically correct but just to make things simpler: they can imagine emotions as built-in characteristics and feelings as conscious interpretations of emotions (this is not 100% correct), because it’s far more complicated than that (this is only to make things simpler) probably it’s better to change or improve some terms.
I agree with most of what she says, however, why didn't you challenge her when she said "Holocaust industry" in Germany?
How do you know what depths of emotion Stairway to Heaven "plumbs" in me? Other than that stupid take on the objectivity of quality in the Arts, I agree with everything this woman said.
Who is making the wonderful "classical style" music today? Are they also the greatest music in the world?
According to this woman old music good, new music bad.
Thanks for giving this racist a platform. It's fun to hear from the good people on both sides.
That was a very persuasive argument against what she said. You are clearly a careful and critical thinker 😉.
@@b.g.5869 you're half right. I need to listen again, not so much for her drivel, but to see if Michael was half asleep or trolling.
Edit: Huh, I've read many of his books and seen him in person and in debates, but he is blind to the systemic racism in America. He isn't concerned at all about gerrymandering against black districts. He doesn't hear her supremacist dog whistles. Probably he doesn't care about the issue and isn't qualified to express an educated opinion. Have to look for his Michael Moore interviews.
@@jimgauth You're talking like a cultist. You haven't provided any evidence for your assertions, which are essentially all simply ad hominem attacks and unsupported assertions peppered with ideological buzzwords such as "systemic racism".
@@b.g.5869 Are you persuaded that black people are inferior?
Where is your evidence?
6:00 actually the best thing is country music.
Take a look at Early Neural development (Embryology)
I was wondering about Einstein too! How did he connected gravity with space!
it turned out that he used patchwork techniques too (no deep understanding), they get each other ideas, science is an accumulated scientific knowledge, so they have to build upon previous work, but they use patchwork techniques (how to make equations work), but no deep understanding!
that’s why they are stucked and couldn’t go further.
There were many good physicists such as Newton, Maxwell, Planck, …. etc., and many others relied on patchwork techniques to fill in the gaps, derive new equations, build assumptions and predictions, but that will never work anymore, because that reached its limits (without a deep understanding of the fundamentals of physics, the situation will only become worser), dependence on pseudo-physicists is a waste of time and will only make the situation worse., it’s better to invest and rely on future generations.
but those who get used to illusions will never abandon their illusions.
Patchwork techniques is similar to Newton’s constant , Planck’s constant , ….etc (they were real good scientists and their work is so valuable) but not enough, big G is the manifestation of Gravity itself (gravity has to do with space, energy, mass, speed …) they have to understand the deep relationship between units (incomplete work) constants are not just a numbers, even numbers have deep meaning, similar to infinity as a concept (humans never came into existence by chance, of course that has nothing to do with so-called gods,..etc but related to cycle two “it’s a kind of science machine of logic, that’s why humans can use logic to solve scientific problems “the better logic the closer to the correct scientific formula “). very likely space is one indivisible unit and that related to fine structure constant (correct physics equations must maintain that),…. etc. very likely infinity is a concept (lack of deep understanding). by the way, Newton, Maxwell and Planck were the best scientists. it’s hard to explain but to concise: GR does work because Einstein connected gravity to space (incomplete work “he used patchwork techniques”) he used G in his equations without deep understanding. he worked hard using patchwork techniques, actually at the beginning he surprised me but later I recognised what he did (good work but incomplete and misleading because of the lack of deep understanding of the fundamentals of physics).
You can find more details on closer to truth RUclips channel and later on Unzicker's Real Physics, but they hid or deleted my thoughts purposely.
Dirac was a good scientist too, there are very important thoughts about LNH (connecting both levels: subatomic and cosmological levels),……etc
Both levels (subatomic and cosmological levels) are strongly related, that has to do with so-called entanglement and superposition,…etc
the current understanding of space, gravity, constants, energy, mass, velocity,…etc is incomplete to incorrect.
(Physics reached its limits because of the lack of deep understanding of the fundamentals of physics such as space, gravity, constants,….etc).
It’s hard to understand what do I mean without reading what I wrote years ago, but maybe this can help: they look for gravity while G is the manifestation of Gravity itself !
Understanding gravity comes through deep understanding of units such as space, speed, mass,…etc
it’s not what they think!
that’s is why it’s better to rely and invest in future generations (hard scientific work that needs real scientists with a new revolutionary way of thinking).
The way the two teachers on MATH SCIENCE and PowerCert RUclips channels, it’s important to recognise who good teachers are: they have good knowledge, they don’t show off, dedicated to their work, enjoy their work, do their best, …… etc
they have to study those two cases (it’s important to focus on teaching process to be able to make real good scientists).
teaching is an art (it’s essential to make children love science).
Another great interview by Michael Shermer. I didn't care for the part where she got all bitchy in the discussion about music. Geez lady, a lot of interviewing someone is about getting to know them. Your book was well plugged, and I will most likely get myself a copy.
Einstein was a good physicist no doubt but not that so good, he is genius only compared to nowadays pseudoscientists.
He used patchwork techniques extravagantly!
they were hard workers (the way they fixed the equations using patchwork techniques).
Gravity is connected to space, but they didn’t found that because of deep understanding, the way they connected space to time in so-called space-time fabric indicate that came out of patchwork techniques not true deep understanding.
Happy thoughts too !
The way they made equations work indicate to hard work on patchwork techniques!
There’s something very important about how they interpret feelings, emotions, affects, ….etc
In general, they did not invent these terms, but rather tried to interpret them scientifically, but they mixed things up!
they can’t recognise that there are self concept and personal identity which generated by self concept itself in a very sophisticated process.
that’s why they are so confused about feelings, emotions,…etc
what confuses them more is that both consciousness type one and personal identity are generated synchronously within larger process.
personal identity ist temporary representation of self concept by self concept itself.
what’s mentioned above is 100% correct.
47:28 - 48:20
The principle of merit is derived from the competitive nature of, science, the economy and international relations. The merit system substituted wealth and power as criteria for participation and advancement. However, the affirmative action of the 1960 showed that traditional excluded groups like women and blacks , if they had the opportunity, would present equal merit, even higher in the case of women. Equal opportunity works.
About four years ago, I watched a video, the timing of that video, the way he thinks, his level of thinking,…etc Everything was dicey until I got a response to one of the e-mails!
They came up with the idea through medical cases that had an almost complete degeneration of the brain, and only the brain stem and some cases of severe brain injuries remained, but I knew all of this by mere individual thinking and other events that would not be useful to mention because it is difficult to understand. I built everything myself and I noticed the many terms Which they use, most of them are superfluous and they confuse things with each other except for several errors that make their guesses useless.
I love how she calls Joseph Bologne (JB) a mediocrity...my goodness. I mean, I know that she's really into classical music, so I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt & assume that she does really consider him a mediocrity, but does she perhaps feel this way because he had a black mother? I mean...yes, I'm just going to go ahead & answer my own question, it's yes. I assume she also blames all of the violent crime stats during the French Revolution on JB as well.
Her opinion that anyone listening to modern music over classical needs to grow up is hilarious. What a load of nonsense.
What a horrible woman. Sad to live a life of hate like she does. She claims that BLM people do not care about black people? Is she a mind reader? You can argue against their methods or their stats, but how do you stereotype a whole group of people like that?
Be a sub in a urban school, get a real education.
You haven’t been paying attention to what BLM has been doing lately eh? They are frauds like many of us have been saying for a few years.
Bippity boppity
Peterson is a Dervish!
I'm sort of shocked you both doubt intergenerational knowledge and blame availability heuristics. Based on availability heuristics. Such as internet comments available to you
That marine on the train should be given an award and a jet to the city
I do not know if this is related but as a single white man watching information about what women like and some is related to sexually pleasing a woman. They usually show a black man with a white woman and rarely show a white man with a black woman. Except for the super hero the Flash (white) married to a black woman I do not seem to see a white man with a black woman very often on TV and movies. I am mostly a movie fan. I have wondered about this as it seems to occur most of the time with newer content. I wonder now if this is related to the issues discussed in the book.
Ah sweet, all the right people are whining about thid episode. Guess it'll be a good one.
Stop ignoring IQ.
I like her feistiness, and even her general over the top-ness, but she really goes overboard on music and convincing herself that certain 18th or 19th century music set in Europe was the absolute pinnacle. OK, some good evidence here. Bach, especially for me, is amazing and vital to this day. But you know Pink Floyd did some special things. And the Beatles were no musical slouches. Her total denigration of modern music is ridiculous but I enjoyed it anyway.
She lost me when she dissed my hometown "Bean".
A good example of living inside an echo chamber and needing to read more books outside your scope and challenges your preconceived notions of the world.
Take for example Eric Garner. Not the chokehold but before that. On that day, the precinct sergeant saw Garner on his morning ride and told a subordinate to make an arrest. For what? For the stats. Why for the stats? Exactly. Mac Donald and her cohort always resort the lazy stereotype that blacks are inherently lazy and violent because of "family breakdown." No, lady. Not even close to the truth.
Skeptic? Sad to see this woman on here. Unsubscibed.
Not sad to see you go.
You're not wrong. She's just advancing the 13-50 garbage. I've lost all respect for Michael Shermer
@@SumNutOnU2b So don't watch. Are you really that weak?
Isn't this what Skeptic is all about?
@@SumNutOnU2b What is 13-50? And do you actually have evidence to support your viewpoint?