Is Kyle Dubas a Fraud or a Hockey Genius?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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Is Dubas a fraud, or did his team let him down?
Dubas is a fraud AND his team let him down.
Well, the Leafs are going full send this season. A lot of UFA's next year.
hes a fraud
Team failed him in TOR, in PIT he sheded multiple terrible moves from Hextall & Co.
At the end of the day, Dubas is still an upgrade over Hextall
in 2009, the pittsburgh penguins had 17 players with the minimum league salary at 700k, and they still won the cup
That was 2009🤦♂️
And that's not entirely true either because many players received hefty bonuses on top of the min salary, which factors in after the season, counting against the following year's cap
@shaggyfrankdizzl close, but wrong.
While performance bonuses count against the salary cap, teams are permitted to exceed the salary cap due to performance bonuses, to a maximum of 7.5% of the Salary Cap.
If a team exceeds the Salary Cap due to performance bonuses, then any amount over the Salary Cap is considered a Bonus Carryover, and counts against the cap in the next season.
Signing bonuses are paid up front or on July 1 of a contract year.
@@kyledalton8501 you said exactly what I said, just wasted more time.
Thanks for nothing, we are all dumber now having read this.
Lol if you seen the bonuses they got...you'd retract this comment bro.
If the Toronto Maple Leafs do not win during the Matthews-Marner-Tavares-Nylander era, this can be looked at as a cautionary tale of why you shouldn’t ruin your chances by signing the most expensive FA to make a splash
As a leafs fan. Trust me they aren’t winning shit lol
It should be seen as a cautionary tale that you can’t win in the playoffs with a soft skill laden top 6. Your top 6 has to have tough skill. Marchand, Tkachuk, Bertuzzi, etc.
It will be a cautionary tale of the importance of quality depth and why failing to get the right pieces around the stars results in perpetual failure
@@Dylandontplay as much a chance as any team. especially in the east
It should be a cautionary tale on not hiring a gm who's only experience is a few years in junior
Life long Leafs fan here. And I agree with what you’re saying, somewhat. I see the correlation between the deals you’re talking about. But I truly believe Dubas could not do what he really wanted to do in Toronto. I would bet my life savings he did not have the final say in Toronto. That said, I don’t think he’s anywhere near genius, but I don’t think he’s a bad general manager by any stretch.
Either way, interesting piece here, Rob.
Adding to this, it's not like this offseason has indicated any change in direction despite the GM change. Not that its been a bad offseason by any stretch, but the makeup of the team itself doesn't really hint at things changing in a major way now that Dubas is in Pittsburgh. Core 4 is still there with seemingly no plans to trade them, Keefe's still in charge despite his record in the playoffs, even the guys they brought in are similar to ones they let go, even if they're improvements on the same tyle. If Dubas was the one in control why would they fire him only to keep taking pages from his playbook?
He's far from perfect, I see him in the good-but-not-great category of GMs in the league right now, but as you said I wouldn't be surprised if at least a handful of his more problematic deals weren't necessarily ones he would have made on his own
@@violetbluejayFirstly, the off season moves by tre were marginal at best to laughable at worst.
Secondly, we only need to see Dubas' handy work in Pitts to ascertain his skill level as a GM. i've been watching pitts all year, what a MESS.
We know that dubas was insecure avs inexperienced when he started. So, it looks like shanahan had a hand in his work.
I think its a little far fetched to call Kyle Dubas a fraud, but his time in Toronto can definitely be seen as a failure. Despite the failure I don't think that makes him a phony.
The one key difference between Karlsson/Burns in SJS and Karlsson/Letang in PIT is Sidney Crosby.
He's a fraud genius, but real average.
And rudolfs balcers keep haunting them to this day
There are a few really fuckin cold takes here.
1 - there has never been a cup winner without at least a few decent stars on it. So no, depth alone does not win cups. You need depth to compliment stars and good goal tending. End of story.
2. You can not blame Dubas or any other GM for not being able to predict a once in a hundred years pandemic would come along and put a full stop on the salary cap for going on 3 years.
This is all just criticizing from a historical view point with the advantage of seeing how things turned out.
Every single trade or signing or draft pick in the history of sports is just rolling the dice to hope things turn out right.
Toronto was a major bust but I can't place that blame on Dubas at all.
Tampa, Colorado and specifically Vegas, have proved that smart hockey minds can construct well balanced championship caliber teams. This formula has been proven, of course you need stars, Vegas also proved that when they acquired Eichel and signed Petro. But they were the missing pieces. If a guy is being paid millions to roll the dice, then man sports has a way to go
yes its 100% a roll of the dice.
The Bruins just had the best regular season in history and lost to the number 8 seed.
This is literally what makes hockey so great. You don't win the games on paper, you have to actually go out on the ice.
Once its on the ice, even the best team can lose to the worst team. Not sure what else to tell ya here.
@@RobTalksHockey
@RobTalksHockey why u always forgetting about Chicago?
Monday morning coaching on Vegas, saying they did it right because they were successful. Mark Stone could just as easily not been able to play at all this season, jack Eichel might have never recovered from his neck surgery, the wheels might have fallen off Pietrangelo. Well constructed team, sure, in hindsight and only for now as some of those contracts are scary. But this is also a team that won a cup with exactly 1 [ONE!] player that they drafted themselves in the regular lineup. That has NOT been the way in the cap era. Need to see a bit more proof that the Vegas system of ruthless roster change (so long Reilly Smith) sustains a contender better than a blackhawks/lightning/penguins model of solid drafting (and a sprinkle of superstar). Dubas just didn't build a good enough team outside his lottery picks, especially on D where Morgan Reilly is way over-leveraged as top D.
I don't know.
But I think he looks just like Rachel Maddow.
Kings fan here, it’s spelled Sean Durzi but is pronounced Derzi, pretty easy to miss honestly
What a great trade for the pens. All this hype just to miss the post season or be a first round exit at best 😂
Dubas inherited the best Leafs roster in 50 years and won one series. Plus he's consistent weak in net. Look for Jarry to sink Pittsburgh.
Am I missing something, or is the thought of having 2 PP QB's attractive to anyone else? Why not just use them on different lines and different PP units? It seems to me that having two stalwarts to put one on each PP line is only a good thing.
It's most effective to have a single player or mind, orchestrating the play, especially for puck-dominant defensemen like Erik Karlsson. The second line unit plays in scrap time. You are taking away a significant role from your #2 guy and making that player's game less effective. At that point teams who have focused on defense first d-men like Vegas, have a far more well-rounded lineup.
Genius = inheriting the best young team in the league after a rebuild and winning 1 round
Blame Shanahan
You can give the Leafs the best team in the world, they'll fuck it up.
Ignorance. Dubas was AGM from 2014-2018. He had a big say in the draft process and like always, worked his ass off more than most
and signing them all to humongous money, thereby handcuffing himself. Then not bothering with goaltending or a number 1 D.
@@jonah.donohuewhy blame Shanahan? Because he should kept Lou but gave the keys to the castle to wonder boy Dubas? It’s hilarious how many Dubas defenders there are and yet he did absolutely nothing to get the team under the cap (that was LL) the drafting were slam dunks and all he really had to do was fill a roster and not get run over in his young stars initial contracts.
He spends like a drunk cashing their paycheck at the bar on pay day. He’s been horrible.
I dont think Letang is very comparable to Burns in this example. He'll be 37 by next postseason, and lowering his TOI I believe was part of the Penguins plan anyways. Will be better suited in a 2nd pair/PP2 rule as time goes on. I'm very excited going into this season for the Pens
Too bad they're missing the post season again
This goes to show how horrible his contract is going to be if true. He is just starting year two of a six (!) year contract where he eats up 6.1 millions of cap space. That's a lot of money for a 2nd pairing defenseman, and given his age, it will only get worse
@@estellegrignon doesn't matter, it's all context, in 3-4 years Penguins will be tanking for first overall. Having veterans on high salaries just make the rebuild faster. But the time Penguins is ready to compete again all those players will be gone/retired.
@@estellegrignonLetang is the 43rd highest paid defenseman in the league…that contract is not bad.
Burns will be 39 next postseason. I do agree with Letang maybe needing a bit less minutes though
As much as I hate Pittsburgh as a rival, Dubas did undo most of the damage done by the Hextall-Burke era with the Karlsson trade.
To add on, is it really Dubas' fault that Matthews and Marner basically disappear come playoff time?
No, but it's 100% his fault for not adapting to the situation. He is naive and stubborn.
@@eriklakeland3857 For the reasons stated in the video I am thankful Dubas was finally fired as Leafs' GM. He should've been after the embarrassing loss of a 2020 playoff series to the Blue Jackets as he'd learned NOTHING from the loss by the Leafs of the playoff series before that (an opening-round one to the Bruins).
@@wainber1 That's more of an indictment of Sheldon Keefe's coaching than Dubas.
@@eriklakeland3857he said he was changing the core then got fired lol
@@TotalCruiserBabe What about Dubas, or even President Shanahan? Yes Shanny overall earned on average over ½ point per non-preseason NHL game during his career as a winger but as an exec with the Leafs has overseen so many players who haven't reached the level of achievement that he did.
With Dubas gone, Keefe is indeed on a short leash although whether that means Keefe will have to find a new job in the hockey world at some point during or before July 2024 remains TBD. Who's to say that the hire by Raps' Prez Ujiri of Darko Rajaković to replace Nick Nurse as head coach will do wonders to improve team culture? Sure Sid Seixeiro, on a mid-April episode of City-TV Toronto a.m. show Breakfast TV (video titled "'Embarrassing' - Sid shares his thoughts on this Raptors season," posted on the Breakfast TV RUclips channel), claimed Nick Nurse had been part of what'd ailed the Raps last NBA-NHL season but problems with that team, evidenced by a blown lead in a play-in game to the Chicago Bulls (the Raps and Bulls having respectively finished 9th and 10th in the East on winning %, thus needing to win 2 straight games just to get to finish, for playoff-qualifying purposes, 8th and thus qualify for the final playoff spot in that conference), are on the team that Bob Webster (GM) and Masai Ujiri (Prez) assembled. It was thus no surprise Seixeiro claimed that the Raps' having last season had "no bench" had rested at Ujiri's and Webster's feet.
The above leads me to the title of a recent episode of Locked On Raptors (part of the Locked On Sports' pod network) titled "What should Toronto Raptors head coach Darko Rajakovic's top priority be to open the 2023-24 season?" That question is interesting because the Raps' team that only in June hired him looks quite different than the one that'd lost that April play-in game. That includes the departure of point guard Fred VanVleet, something I hope Leafs' GM Treliving will learn from by trading AM34 or Nylander to get something for either forward, but ideally both.
Dubas' time in Toronto is definitely one that had its up and downs, but I think you can hardly say he has been bad in Pittsburgh already. Virtually every move he's made outside of Karlsson has been a depth trade or signing. I know people like to call the Jarry singing a bad deal, but ultimately he was the best goalie on the market and he was only going to sign if it was long-term.
We have ZERO idea whether he's been good or not in Pittsburg. It's a result based job, being successful as a team, in its objectives and expectations given the team's window.
Outside of Toronto, something that was "GOOD ON PAPER" or not has NO value. For every other teams and their fanbase/local media, if you have to say that something was "gOoD oN PApeR!1", it means that it sucked in reality, that the move was bad, that the contract was bad, that the team is bad, etc., etc. It's common sense.
So unlike what went on in Toronto, he'll be judged for actual RESULTS, meaning DEEP playoffs runs AT LEAST.
And BTW, getting into the Conf semi-finals and win a SINGLE game is NOT a deep playoff run.
And having only ONE 2 round playoff game win to show for it after an half-decade of a team's compete window is an unmitigated FAILURE.
At least it would be in ANY other franchise. Fans in Toronto really need to stop that cult of personality worship, their victim mentality/conspiratorial BS, and willful blindness, seriously.
THANK YOU Robs; with how huge and insane that fanbase is, you're the only one with the balls to actually show the data and make the obvious conclusion.
Dubas wasn't hired in Pitt because he was good or because of his performance, no, he's part of the good ol' Boys Club now, and so will be part of the lifelong CONSTANT ROTATION of the same few coaches and GMs that sucked everywhere they went. Nepotism is turned to 11 in the NHL eh.
@@Unholy_LouieRealistically we also don't know how much his hands were tied in Toronto. The issues with that team go far beyond anything Dubas did or didn't do, it starts with locker room culture and ends with upper management/ownership.
That being said, I think we can look at what he's done "on paper" with Pittsburgh so far and say that they look much more solid than last year and should be a playoff team again if the core stays healthy.
@@chrismdb5686 Alright. It made me laugh because I know you did it on purpose and yeah it's funny lol
BUT. If you please. Can we talk about the man for ONE SECOND without bringing what freaking is or isn't good "ON PAPER" lol? Come on. :P
It's not even the correct question to ask imho, especially not in the context of Rob's video. He never said that the team wouldn't be better after his moves than it was last year (or in Toronto langage, that it isn't better "on paper" than last year).
No. He said that his move to bring Norris K wasn't THE BEST ONE, wasn't the CORRECT one given what the team has, what it needs, and how his bad cap management completely murders any chance of improving the team elsewhere, places where they are the weakest (or at any point in their window).
It's easy to have a team that isn't as bad as it was the year before dude, especially when ALL players who matter were signed already lol... Come on.
But Rob's point is that it wasn't the best way to do it, and that it's the same type of BS he did in Toronto.
EVEN THEN, like I said, whether it "on paper" or on my left ass cheek, I personally want to wait and see how the team does before calling the move bad or good; although it's certainly an alarming pattern of decisions (you know just as well as myself that all is erased if the team wins the cup, even if it makes the team horrible for years later on, etc...).
As for the first part of your message, you don't know that for a fact, simple as that.
Even then, do you know just how many teams employ both a GM and president just like the Leafs? Are those dozens of GMs also not responsible when their team fails during their window? Fail at their objectives and expectations? Even if it's all within their job description to manage?
Come on dude, it's confirmation bias to the extreme.
And if your shot in the dark turns out to be even close to be true, it would put his management into question all the same (but for different reasons), and even his work ethics.
It doesn't matter anyways, because we have no evidence that his management was any more negatively influenced than for any other GM in the same structure.
Let me ask you this :
IF Toronto had been successful during Dubas' tenure, would you then be saying that it wasn't mainly because of Dubas, and he should thus get very limited credit for the team's success?
I don't think you would if you're honest here. That's called having a strong bias (which is okay; we ALL have some of those). While you don't have to justify yourself in any way, it makes it harder to have a fact based and honest discussion TBH...
@@Unholy_Louie I'm not saying Dubas is absolved of anything regarding his stint in Toronto. What I am saying is that the organization smells rancid, and removing Dubas did nothing to remove the stretch, if you catch my drift. The organization is rotten to its core and needs to be burned to the ground and rebuilt before it'll see any success regardless of who's at the driver's seat.
Ups and downs? Ups and downs?! They have some great players who played well but from a GM standpoint he absolutely bottled it, he let amazing players go and massively mismanaged the players and picks he had. From a team standpoint? Yeah, definitely ups and downs. From a GM standpoint? Bottom of the league
He was gifted a promising young roster rimming with high end talent and just entering their prime. The Leafs had Blue Chip prospects and Draft picks. In Pittsburgh it's the opposite. He's saddled by a aging roster who's best years are far behind them. I think committing to the current core (Crosby,Malkin,Letang) played a role in him getting the GM position in Pitt. Pitt has not much as far as draft picks and prospects right now. I think Dubas is set up to fail in Pitt. They will be good and maybe contend for a season or two still, but that means trading away more assets. in a few seasons it's gonna get ugly.
Big time stinker, he messed this team or at least Shanahan messed up by giving the job to a kid. He had lamorello, this video is spot on. Gives away first round draft picks for UFA and nothing to show for it . Don't get me started.
Toronto has losing in their DNA. He was never gonna win there.
He is a stats geek. Never played the game at a high level, thinks hockey can be a moneyball situation. You can’t measure hard work, determination, being hungry on pucks, smart plays under pressure etc. William nylander is the perfect example of this. Good stats but he is a very incomplete hockey player.
As a Sens fan, the Toronto moto is to try to win now, they don't seem to have any interest in developing anyone else at the moment which seems to fit with the number of trades they have made in the last few years or loss of youngsters to free agency. Going to be interesting this one with Dubas as I think that he's signed up for more of a project with the Penguins in the next 3 years when all the stars retire, going to be interesting to see how this plays out. Great video as always bud.
For the record, 9:45 you said "The Penguins & Boston Bruins have created the best winning culture in this generation." 🤔🤔
I can agree with Pittsburgh, but Boston!?!? I'm fine with you mentioning Boston but not even including Chicago!?! (who took home 3 Cup's IN 2+ less seasons than PITTSBURGH!!!) Chicago; 3 in 6. Pittsburgh; 3 in 8.
Like, bruh Tampa fans should be pissed too, they've seen much more playoff success "this era" Than the Bruins! And usually I'm the one sh*ting on Tampa fans who think their team is somehow on the same level as what Chicago & Pittsburgh has done "THIS GENERATION". 😅💀
The problem with your analysis is that you don't control for anything. Was San Jose bad because they had 2 offensive defensemen, or were they bad in spite of them? Prove that, and it will take more than a comment to my post or a 13 minute video just to accomplish that because your video doesn't go anywhere unless you isolate for that.
And your argument also fails because Karlsson was likely recovering from injuries during the last few years - something your very video ignores completely. It's not like Karlsson's power play minutes were low - he had as many as many top players when burns was there and when he wasn't. Even in Karlsson's lowest point total seasons, he still played more than say Mitch Marner and others. That's not exactly warming the bench. He had more than enough opportunities to get Norris consideration/trophies - his injuries were likely the much more limiting factor here, not Burns. This is a fact. Also, San Jose's rebuild state of not making the playoffs probably allowed him to be more risky with his plays as well - the coach likely didn't care anymore and gave him the green light.
Also, there are advantages to having multiple offensive defensemen on your team, especially if injuries and age are a concern. Toronto got destroyed by Florida because they lacked more offensive puck moving defensemen, which is why they got Klingberg and were in on the Karlsson rumours as well. Dubas would also be well-aware of this as this was a major criticism from top coaches around the league.
I think it's fair to say that a lot of the bad decisions Dubas made were probably not made by Dubas alone and Shannahan had a lot to do with it. It's important not just to put sole blame on a GM when you know that organization doesn't give full control to the GM anyway. Toronto hasn't give full control to a GM in quite some time.
Also, shame on you for expecting GMs around the league to predict a global pandemic that usurped cap growth expectations given by the league the year before. Shame on you. That is so dishonest.
Overall, your video is poorly researched and is just click bait, intended to be taken in by the masses who don't think about this that much. But you and I know the truth - this is a poorly researched video and is probably dishonest just to create clicks.
Imo they'll play Letang and Karlsson on the PP at the same time with EK being the QB and Letang playing almost like a forward. I don't deny this hypothesis would be correct in a lot of other instances but I think this instance will be the one that works out finally. I hope it doesn't cause I hate the Penguins 🤣 but unfortunately I think Penguins will look a lot better than people think.
Great analysis. You hit the nail on the head! Dubas is a fraud. The MapleLeafs will never win the cup, because it is a team effort. Three players who hold 40,2% of the cap cannot be successful. Toronto has no quality on the bottom six, this might suffice to gain a playoff spot, but among the top 16 teams you need four quality lines, a decent defence and a reliable goalie. Many games have been decided by third line, fourth line players, because the top lines neutralize themselves. Vegas has shown it twice (managed to reach the finals to loose against an even deeper Capitals team and now got the cup).
A genius would win a Stanley Cup.
There is a contingent that absolutely worship him. I have no clue why. He has been there for good Toronto teams, but they haven't won in the playoffs. Plus the most important parts on that team weren't drafted by him, and he overpaid them.
Dubas should've been fired the moment he gave Marner $10.9M per year as an RFA, especially when you consider that Rantanen (who had better numbers) signed for $1.5M less a week later. Just an inexcusable overpayment that handicapped the team
Especially when you consider that he wasn't able to get max term.
Analytics genius/ not even close. Live by analytics and you’ll never win
Dubas isn't a genius nor a moron. He's a very decent, average GM. Can find cheap depth, can have great hits on trades but also big misses, but hasn't had much success drafting.
I think Dubas assembled a fantastic team. My opinion is hubris. How can so many superstars play together and still suck? Pride!
Dubas shouldnt get as much credit as some give him for their regular season success or as much blame as he gets for their failures Shanny is still in charge and clearly limiting what he allows hid GMs to do. Dubas isnt a top tier GM or a bottom one. We wont really get to see what he actually is until the Pittsburgh stars retire and he builds his team from the ground up. He needs to stop having a hilarious bias to former Soo Greyhounds though
Great comment! Shanny spoon fed him, built him up, and...he had to check with his wife, and his options. Options? Like you don't owe Shanny? Omg. Not a leafs fan, but wow.
letang is a very different player from burns brother
ofc the vegas team knew how to manage their money and salary caps
good question. im leaning more towards fraud. he drafts well, but he signs terrible deals, always shoots for top stars, and doesnt build depth, trades away later draft picks to balance out his mistakes. he'll focus so much on one side of puck in toronto offense, there is no payroll for defense or goaltending.
got shit hole toronto past the first round
he's a better gm than 2/3s of the other morons running teams rn. not sure why he's getting singled out
you put kerfoot into the wins category, but they lost him to free agency this year
I highly doubt the decision to sign Tavares and resign Matthews and Marner were Dubas' alone. You don't give away that much money without ownership involvement. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he was told to get those guys at any cost. They're marketable superstars in the biggest hockey market. I suspect Dubas' hands were tied
I was neutral towards Dubas, but I hated the JT signing. Not the player, just the AAV. Leafs lost too many good depth pieces. Bringing in Kerfoot and Barrie was unnecessary. Trading away Brown was a bad move, the Sandin trade didn’t need to happen. Leafs would have had a really solid group. The team could have had Brown and Hyman in their top 6 forward group still.
idk my guy, JT has been the only one worth the money so far.
Not to mention Kadri when he was traded to Colorado, had what was perhaps the best valued contract in the league.
The sandin trade was baffling to say the least
@@mitchelsullivan3118Agree or not, it isn't a puzzle. Sandin, as of now, is not a good defensive player. The Leafs needed to slot in more experienced and defensively minded players. Sandin just didn't fit what they needed at the time.
Yup JT signing killed this team
An NHL team needs to hire you, Rob. Your knowledge of the game and understanding of how all the pieces fit together is so impressive!
Professional sports teams belong to the corporate world.
Corporations don’t want knowledge, they want yes men.
Schmucks if you will.
Like Dubas
Lmao
I feel the EK signing is good, you are dealing with a different type of team in Pit, they know how to win and EK and Letang on the back end well its just like Sid and Geno upfront the one two punch it should give other team fits, hopefully
They'd be great in the retirement league
I think this is going to work in Pittsburgh, because while Letang scores points on the PP, he's not a great QB. He excels in zone entry but isn't an elite distributor. Malkin QBs more than Letang, but likewise isn't great at it. He's better as a half wall trigger man. The best QB we have had since Gonchar was actually Kessel from the half wall, and he's gone. I expect to see a PP with Karlsson at the top of the umbrella, Malkin (LHS) and Letang (RHS) to either side above the face off dots as trigger men, with Crosby and probably Guentzel down low near the net mouth. Guentzel might be swapped out for Rakell, Smith or even O'Connor for fit. That should be ok
Not saying I agree with everything Dubas did in Toronto, but trying to judge his time with the Leafs will always have a massive asterisk due to the fact that the current salary cap is just missing a minimum of $6 million extra dollars that should've been there if it wasn't for Covid... And that's the bare minimum, in reality the number would probably closer to $15m of extra cap.
Can't judge him on players like McCann. He wouldn't be the player he is today if he stayed in Toronto or even Pittsburgh. He would have been buried in the depth chart, a good player, a decent value, but not a first line player getting fifteen points a year on the power play. Had he gone to another team that put him in a third line center role with zero power play time very few people would miss him.
Doobass assembled nothing.
He did not bring Tavares over.
Nostrils was the obvious 1st choice in the draft.
All he did was overpay for 4-5 players and not build a team that needed upgrades in defence and in net.
He overpaid Nostrils going from league minimum toone of the highest paid players while STIIL AN RFA!!! HELLO!!!!
Now the Leafs HAD to resign Nostrils to even more just to keep him making him overpaid by 4-5 million!
Have fun Pens fans😂😂😂😂
Hmm… isn’t it absolutely casual to assume the salary is gettin higher every year and (nearly) every gm (NHL/ NFL/ NBA) do so? No one calculated rona, on top is the NHL the only league with flatten cap, or am i wrong? 🧐
My point is, to me Dubas has build awesome rosters, those playoff choke jobs are more on player and coaching side if you ask me 🤷🏻♂️ if the leafs had won one cup, no one would care about a cap hell 🤷🏻♂️
just ask the LA Rams 😜
Edit: or the golden knights, as you said
Look spending entirely HALF of the cap on 4 guys is going to leave you with holes. It isnt rocket science.
A smart FO comes at their guys and says "Look, we want to put the best team out there, we will spend every dollar allowed, but if you want solid teammates, we need you to take ($8.75m instead of $10.5, for example)". Its called The Tom Brady Strategy, and it leads to unparalleled success (for anyone not paying attention the last 20+ years)
But hey..Dubas gonna Dubas. Im sure his Jerry Jones "Just Buy" style will continue to work wonders.
I agree with your break down, I think it would be really interesting to see you do a similar break down/ retrospective of Bowman’s effect on the Blackhawks vs what was left behind by Dale Talon.
He’s a Fraud. Sign Tavares when the Leafs were the 3rd highest scoring team in the NHL. He didn’t draft Marner, Mark Hunter did when Babcock wanted Hannifin. Dubas brought in former Sault Greyhounds when the London Knights have sent more NHL ready players than Any other Junior team in Canada. Then there’s Matt Murray who played 47 games in “2 yrs” for the Sens so Dubas traded for him and you know the rest. As far as Tavares goes Dubas wanted a Splash, just like he’s done with Karlsson. Is Karlsson Dubas’s Matt Murray? Wait for it.
Heres all that heeds to be said......Expansion draft and he had a choice on which 2 to keep between Kerfoot, Holl, or Jared McCann. DUmBASs decided to not protect Jared McCann who ends ups scoring 40 goals..as much as matthews that year. I wonder if that was the turning point of Leafs future success....By the was Kerfoot and Holl are no longer with the Leafs.
As a Sharks fan I'm pulling for Pittsburgh to finish with a top 10 pick this year and then win the lottery for 1st overall next year so the Sharks can use it to draft Michael Misa.
This is a guy who "learned" his job by playing NHL2022 in God mode.
The Leafs fired Lou for that?
I wonder what Dubas had on Shanahan and now on Mario, apparently.
Sorry, Pens fans, you may have one good season left here before it all goes to sh---sorry, I meant "Dubas".
"The Penguins and Boston Bruins have developed the best winning culture this generation"
Penguins, perhaps. Boston though? Look at their playoff record for the last 15 years. They've consistently choked away critical games when they needed to win them the most, aside from 2011 when Vancouver somehow out-choked themselves. And regular season success doesn't exactly paint a generous picture either, after the best season in league history with 65 wins they couldn't make it past the 17th ranked team.
Nobody was celebrating Tampa's culture in 2019 when they tied the league record for wins and lost to Columbus, and for good reason. To say that Boston has a winning culture after all they've put us through for over a decade is just a critical inaccuracy.
I'm very grateful for having Moritz Seider on my team. Probably one of the few defenseman who can do both roles as an quarterback and as a pure defenseman.
Tavares in my opinion is the only questionable signing. Dubas might have gotten caught up in fandom there. If I was GM I would sign Nylander, Marner, and Matthews to the same deals he did. They are way too good to not to. Treliving getting Tavares at a much lower deal or off the books completely after next year will open up flexibility.
When about 45% of you’re teams salary is going to 4 players it’s gonna be hard to build a nice contender. Dude gave marner 10.9 million when he was a RFA…..like why? The leafs had all the leverage. And he goes to Pitt and don’t get me wrong I love Erik Karlsson but the dude is a mirror image of letang and he’s getting paid over 10 million. The points most likely will come next season but sheesh It’s like Dubas is playing be a GM and forgetting about depth and role players and what not.
Lou signed Zaitsev for 7 years x $4.5m after 1 in the NHL season. The leafs had to give their cheap depth in Connor Brown to dump him. Kyle also had to undo Uncle Lou's signing of Marleau by giving up a 1st round pick.
Imagine the Boo Li Ying masterclass kray kray Babs must have given this young man from teetsy Phuket, ON over the years... with his little diploma and numbers.
Duby was so intimidated, he didn't even believe he had any auth to dismiss a legend of the sport, a leader of the OBC. It's like you or me stepping out of uni and firing babcock.
With the pens it should provide both letang & karrelson with good minutes and especially rest, because of age & injuries. Mike Sullivan with manage the bench with which ever one is hot. The key is who will retrieve the puck for either of them or which one works better on the outlets & PP.
Dubas never should of drafted Taveras
Hes no fraud
The players he has “lost” are not crazy losses except for salary cap issues..✌🏻
Bottom line is everyone knows what the Pens have needed for years now is A)Better Defense B) Steadier Goaltending and C) More Depth.
Karlsson offers them none of those and he ensures they won't be able to acquire A, B or C in the near future.
So I guess they are going with "Scoring Wins Championships".
We shall see.
I’ve played the crap outta ‘be a GM mode’. I just SIM the games and focus on drafting, developing and contracts. I might not be Kyle Dubas but I think I could do a better job than that Chayka guy.
Dubas is as any other GM in the league. He has his own brand of hockey he likes to implement - that mostly centered around skill and puck possession ... and that's mostly it. He seems to downplay or not cared at all about the physicality or smash mouth brand of hockey. Which can be ideal, but not practical. Nice regular records, terrible playoff. Neither a fraud nor a hockey genius, just your regular GM.
Doofus
Neither fraud nor genius. Who buy's a well used asset at the very highest price, an asset that you pretty much already have? A genius? No. A fraud? No. A fool? Possibly. Done my share of buying high and selling low lol.
I don't agree with that Vegas analogy. Sure, when they were expansion, they were really deep but that was just by default due to the expansion rules. Since then, they've been major players plucking the big names every year. Stone, Pietrangelo, Eichel, Lehner
Dubas isn't a fraud but he's no hockey genius either. He built a team that eliminated a team a year removed from the Stanley Cup finals and 2 years removed from the Stanley Cup. He will probably learn from mistakes made with the Leafs. I don't anticipate a Stanley Cup in Pittsburgh any time soon.
I alway said never trade away first round picks, off the top of my head we lost out on Scott Niedermier , Roberto Luongo , Tyler Saigon and Dougie Hamilton. Glad Dubai is gone, love John Taveras but we didn’t need him at the time we were young and coming no need to rush the process
The first round losses make perfect sense. There is no "analytics" that can advance you through the first round. It takes something that can't be measured. HEART, which they are sorely lacking
Anybody could have Drafted Auston Matthews and Marner and if Tavares wanted to come home to Toronto that bad anybody could have done that too lol he walked on to a team that set up for future success lol or some what success anyway.
I respect the Pens for giving it once last charge up the hill. I really do, sadly it will be the charge of the light brigade. Toronto should have traded Marner, now they are stuck. Not many teams want to pay Willy, 10 million. They can wait till the trade deadline. Dubas was hamstrung by the cap, he brought in good players. He wanted to win, that is not a bad thing.
Dubas has been very successful at every level before the NHL. But at the top level, he was late to the party. Seemingly trusting in pure analytical aspects. Unfortunately, it only created flashes here and there, and never ever close to the ultimate goal. The A's didn't win fk all in moneyball, and the leafs won't win fk all now or in these next few years.
Aside from the required skill level, the "intangibles" are what they are and truly separate success from failure at the top level.
The guy made Toronto a "not shitty" team and that's an achievement in itself. Mistakes were made of course but it's not his fault the leafs won't win a cup for 10+ still.
As for the Karlsson move, he solved a fair bit of problems the previous pens had with that trade. With such an aging roster it's now or never if they want to win. But they need to stay healthy and Letang for all his awesomeness isn't exactly a paragon of health anymore so it makes sense to limit his play time and Karlsson is no stranger to lots of minutes... but not a paragon of health himself. Pens will be dangerous this season and this feels like a hail mary from Dubas. Let's see if injuries breaks it or the fact they don't have a decent goaltender anywhere to be found.
As for Dubas, he's active but not more than average. But he surely isn't a fraud.
In the last 10 years, no team has won more playoff games than the TB Lightning. No team has appeared in more Stanley Cup finals than TB. This generations standard for winning culture is located in Tampa Florida, and they aren't done yet.
Rob, did you know that Mathew's was getting $13.25 before you made this video? 😅 Someone send Treviling your video.
I don't know. I feel like when you have Tavares, Marner, Matthews, Nylander, and Rielly, treading water and giving them a chance in the playoffs every year is the best thing you can do.
the team failed him. He built a great hockey team that got Toronto to the playoffs every year he was gm (including his first season where they had just gotten 69 points the season before), got 100+ points for all of his years except for 3 including the shortened year, in the shortened year Toronto was tied with 3 other teams for 5th place. Through this all, his team still always failed in the postseason, never making it past the first round until this year.
THANK YOU !! I have only been saying this since they signed Tavares. Should have just stayed the course. NO FA's.
Dubas or his reading of analytics just doesn't put any $$$ or priority into his support players or even 'glue' guys. It's all 'external analysis.'
He is very good at what he does but it does Not translate into 16 wins.
If i would have been a mapleleafs fan during Dubas i wouldnt have supported most of is decisions... oreillt pick playoffs was a good one but the list strong players that left to keep 4 is a bit too big in my mind... u could arguably have a contender with thaT list and u would have draft picks and lot of salary cap room😂
yeah okay Dubas made a lot of bad signings always hopeful for the Leafs. don't think it was the players individual. its the wrong group built around the core . the Vegas analogy is correct. not a fan of Vegas but you have to recognize the brilliance of who ever put that team together every player complementing each other . to me Vegas is what a championship team looks like
Fraud, he's counting on Crosby and Malkin to win the cup, they're both still real good players but they're older now and a little bit slower and that's all the advantage the younger talented players need to beat them. They also no longer have Fluery who was a big part of their wins, all he's done is handicap the Pens for years to come with that contract, just like he did with the Leafs.
Hockey is a TEAM sport first and foremost... yes it is nice to have star players, but if you don't have the right people around them it doesn't matter. Toronto and Edmonton have both demonstrated this in recent years. It's not about having two guys or even two lines that can score goals, you also need a solid 3rd and 4th line, solid defense and a good goaltender. If anything, it seems every team making a cup run in recent years has had a goalie who catches fire at just the right time to help carry them... but even a good goalie can't do their job if the defense isn't there to help them out.
Biggest problem with Dubas when he has draft picks he gets long shots vs a guy who could be a plug-in bottom 6D who will be cheap young and defensively responsible.
..seems Shanahan was calling the shots and would not break up the soft core ensuring mediocrity....Dubas has made interesting moves in Pittsburg...so..lets see..?
With how much Matthews just signed, it was the only way dubas could keep him and others with them. Nobody really wants to play for the leafs😂 got to get paid to have the stanley cup drought as an extra baggage they barely can take
Nice video. There are a lot of prospect and prediction videos in the summer so It's nice to see something deeper like this that lays out an interesting opinion for a hockey discussion. With Dubas I like to think about what position the Leafs would be in if he didn't trade picks and just kept most of the young(when he became GM) guys on the team together. They probably would be better off in a sense without a GM and instead just had a contract negotiator. That's a bit of an exaggeration but you get the point that the talent pool he had when he came on to the team was what carried Toronto much more so then his impact on the team.
If Kyle wins the pens a cup I take back about him and and this Eric trade
Im a Canucks fan, I hate everything TO...That said our new front office better start start making some smart "hockey" decisions.
You can’t say he’s an amazing gm if at the same time you shit on what HE built in Toronto. He refused to break up the core four, he signed the guys to those contracts everybody loves to shit on, he’s done dick all draft wise, and only made good trades the last like year and and half
In all fairness to Dubas, the only reason the cap hasn't jumped significantly was due to Covid. There's no possible way anyone could have predicted. Which had a huge impact on Toronto's ability to retain depth. With that said, he absolutely overpaid for Tavaras and probably should have been more firm with Matthews and Marner. Granted, I don't think he was getting either to take much less considering their respective seasons when their contracts were up. Not to mention, both knew how important they were to the Leafs.
I also think blame needs to be shared between Dubas and the players. Toronto had no business whatsoever losing to Montreal. And I say that as a Habs fan. Even the Boston series, they more or less choked at the last minute. So I think a consideration of blame needs to go around. Pittsburgh, in my opinion, will be the real tell of Dubas' career. If they crash and burn, he'll go down with them.
I agree not seeing enough people mention how much the pandemic made those contracts look even worse than what they were when he signed them. Very interested to see how he does with Pittsburgh this year
Nobody can predict the future which, is why you should never put your team in a position like Dubas put the Leafs.
His tenure in Toronto was a case study in arrogance and hubris.
What's this nonsense about the cap not rising?
The cap rises and falls for all teams.
If a team has 40million dollars in 4 players then that team's ability to pay for depth is reduced regardless of the cap.
BECAUSE THE CAP RISES AND FALLS FOR EVERY TEAM!
this was actually one of the most interesting hockey videos i’ve seen in a while. good job :)
Yeah I was glued to the screen it was awesome
I don’t fault him for signing JT. Tavares was one of the top centers in the game at the time and before signing him our top center was Bozak. Tavares has produced at a point per game every year, so I don’t get why his contract is seen an an albatross.
I remember when they trade Mason Marchment I was commenting on how dumb of a trade it was only for everyone to tell me we traded a all player for a NHL player acting like we won the trade lol.
Kyle Dubas certainly does have a lot of boot licker fans.
Definitely not a genius, remains to be seen if he's a fraud... but one has to wonder how he got the Pittsburgh GM job so fast after his Toronto exit and lackluster result...
Dubas takes part of the blame. The cap hits on their top players were a problem that can be blamed on dubas.
The other part has to do with their tough opponents….. MOST years.
The fans are 26% of the problem.
That a low number