Jon Bellion just exposed the dark side of the music industry. (my reaction)
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- I wanted to react to this and dive deeper into what Jon is saying here. This is reflected throughout the industry and there are FEW artists/producers/etc that are in the industry and actually happy and thriving.
Its sad that such a talented artist disappears for 6 years because of this. This happens more than we think.
This means all of those artists that "Fell Off" might actually not be falling off!
They are just stuck in bad deals and can't release more music without losing money or something similar.
I wanted to react to this and dive deeper into what Jon is saying here. This is reflected throughout the industry and there are FEW artists/producers/etc that are in the industry and actually happy and thriving.
Its sad that such a talented artist disappears for 6 years because of this. This happens more than we think.
This means all of those artists that "Fell Off" might actually not be falling off!
They are just stuck in bad deals and can't release more music without losing money or something similar.
This is the reality of the industry. Now all of us need to learn what we can in every area like you said Kyle and start skill stacking as much as possible! I push every one of my artists to stay independent, don’t sign deals.
That's the thing, even when writing the thing of saying people saying your name, but what happens and what's it do to you when you're still a no name?, there's nothing left to do, then what the hell do you do, just move on and look crazy telling people you have written something.
Hell yeah most people are still working bullshit jobs and can't even get time or help to work on music, and that doesn't help either not knowing enough about the terminology or the technical language or layout of music, I write and I know what sounds good.
Thank you for informing us tho Kyle, it’s good for new people to see and have a visual representation of it! Thank you!
Shout out producers with dying fires and 1000's of crazy beats that will never see the light of day because we had to get real jobs and just make beats now as a hobby.
I share beats all the time created by others I made a channel just to share the beats people make or they're taking the time to show people how to construct them so they get credit and are recognized for the work they do. Their job and skillet is underrated.
This also applies to every other form of art.
Gate keepers have power and power corrupts.
Personally I just make beats for myself these days, I'll only upload a handful. Working a normal job then coming home to work on music into the wee hours, just to get f*cked? Nah I'm good, it takes away the fun and the reason you started making music in the first place.
Honestly it's just in God's name at this point. Who knows, maybe we'll make it at 40 lol. If not, who cares?
Artists in every field have been screwed forever. Only solution is to get legal smart before you start
Even with a perfect contract if your sales start to slip you’ll be screwed over
@@kidzni disagree, if you are “Legally Smart”. You can figure out a deal that says You’ll have to pay me x amount of money to make music every year for the next 5 years, and if it goes well, you could renew the contract type shit. You just gotta know who you dealing with. You dont recite poetry to someone who is not a poet.
Or go independent
Real. Its like that in every business only the hard survive
As a producer/artist that lives on ramen noodles, I felt that
Broooo 😫😫😫
You mean “in”
Word me too
I’ll check you out!
@@skizzyskitzoand also you! Lol
This is just ridiculous. The labels are robbing both the producers and artists
Producers are literally getting robbed lol
I didn’t think John’s interview could become more valuable and you made this more valuable . Thanks for everything Kyle . Great music and great knowledge
Jon* but understandable
please keep this video up forever.. this is sad and really eye opening and needs to be up to watch to raise awareness of how this stuff actually goes. realizing what the mainstream industry actually is, may change so many mindsets towards it.
this is a trap so many artists fall into. these companies and managers take advantage of naivete and artists current situations to lock them into some shit theyll never profit from 99% of the time. glad ur showing more in depth what these deals mean as some people still dont know how they REALLY work
Artists are so easy to screw over most of them are minimally educated burnouts anyways 🤷♂️
I've been saying this for years.
Independent artist is the only sustainable way forward as far as I can see.
it's so true. either that or small labels but once things get too big for their own good, it's a wash
It’s crazy to think one of my favorite artists and one so damn influential, whose sound literally blew my mind the first time I heard it and influenced YEARS of my life (and tons of other artists) is getting chewed up like this. He’s big but he should be HUGE, labels should be kissing his feet lol.
I know bro this is how i felt.
As a 19 year old at Berklee trying to get this off the ground while living off the salad bar at the caf this was so eerie omg
what u play?
If you are paying tuition in 2024 when the internet is available then you are just wasting time and blowing money.
*Streaming is dying...DTC (Direct to Consumer) is the wave now. IYKYK*
I remember watching a video of Russ and he was talking about getting a loan from the bank and using that for an album etc is what he tends to do and gave his reasons for it.
It was a very interesting point he was making because a “deal” from the label is just fronting you money to pay back, and the banks you can get a better interest loan along with owning your music.
His point definitely makes sense if your someone who has at least a little fan base.
But it makes me think now doing something like taking a loan from the bank and then tapping into Direct To Consumer can pay that loan off faster than it would going thru the label.
Shits very interesting and the industry is a wicked game.
In my opinion you’re better off getting a loan to start a business away from music. Music you are never in control of anything. It’s up to the mass people to decide if f they like it then labels are not the move. Start a legit business then do music for fun and if something happens it does but have a soild foundation
That's why I'm gonna solely make it by myself and be not expecting help from anyone. If other people can make it, then I can make it. Wish y'all all the best, all love♥️
You can do it!
@@kylebeats2 thank you Kyle! Really appreciate that 🖤🙏🏻
first
289th.😂
Kyle, you oughtta have Lecrae on a podcast. He owns reach records and has been a steady artist for 20 years. I think he has some good insight on these subjects
I love lecrae
I worked in a massive $20m studio for a while, which meant I worked pretty close with all the big labels, and always told every artist who was independent and talking like they want to sign to not ever sign to a label. I unfortunately witnessed a handful of artists who were on a fast rise get their careers wiped away just before they were really famous enough to support the growth without the resources of a label. All for one petty reason or another. You can't quit on the label, but they can drop you like nothing, and whatever that "sign on bonus" was, they're still going to be making you pay back
Well no, few comments on this bro, an “advance” can be “recouped” but it cannot be “repoed” a label can & will make back the money from your advance until you make money BUT they can never take back the physical money they “give” you, that’s why it’s always told “Negotiate for as big as an advance as you can” if you buy a house, a car, they cannot call the bank & get that repossessed, those are now yours, the label can never touch them! Few months ago I spoke with a band, who never really did anything after signing, but they still live in the houses their advance paid for
Secondly, here’s the problem! Statistically there have been more successful signed artists in the last month alone, then successful independent artists in the last 50 years, THAT’S CRAZY!!!! I get saying “Don’t sign to a label” but the thing is, realistically you have a BETTER chance of making it after getting signed, then making it independently (and that’s backed by statistics) it’s a shot in the dark both ways BUT your chances percentage wise are SO MUCH better taking your shot with a label! Your advice should’ve been “Be financially smart with your advance” at least 50% should be put back into your music & or invested into businesses, stakes, stocks, stuff that’ll make your advance back in double so you can then invest even more into your music
The problem isn’t necessarily “the labels” the problem is the artists not being financially literate with “what” the labels give them! I know artists that are sleeping in motels in tours, I know artists that are bunking in the tour van, I also know artists that want a 5 star penthouse for the night
Who’s getting the best bang for their buck in the long run?
Moral of the story, making it in music is a shot in the dark, percentage wise you have a better chance of making it signed, then you do independent & that’s just how it is! Play your cards how you want, but if there’s an 80% chance I’ll land on black, versus a 0.7% chance I’ll land on red, you better bet I’m betting black!! You feel me?
Look, here’s the thing! Nobody is “truly” 100% independent, I’ve actually never heard of an artist who is, wether your signed or not, you still may have publishing deals, marketing deals, album deals, single deals that workaround labels even if your not on an artist contract, & I’ll let you in on a secret
99% of “independent” artists (I say that loosely cause of what I just mentioned) who are successful, are successful because they gained notoriety, finances, & education on the industry WHILE they were signed before their contract ended
You have a much better chance being successful independently after you’ve already been signed & your contract is up, then being successful independently without ever working with a label
So sad, Jon was one of my favorite artist/producer growing up! Always felt he represented true creativity and talent. So glad to to see him speak up!
His All Time Low song helped me through my most difficult time in my life😢
@@teoigi3247 likewise!!! 🙏🫶
Funny that people that do shit but send it to streaming services and the radio, get most of the money, yeah fuck me going to music school and making music for 8 years and I don't get shit
Bellion has always been straight forward. Dude is a legend. Never changes
25, married, 3 kids. Been producing electronic music for 15 years, the past 5, I’ve taken it more seriously and started releasing my music through DistroKid. I’ve only made $75 over those 5 years and most of that money has been from me streaming my own music. I do it for the love of the craft. I dream that this thing can be my living, but i have no intentions on being with a label unless if it looks crystal clear and fair in every right, which will never happen unless if the big 4 get their shit together.
Maybe I’m missing something but why sign to a label in 2024 or beyond? They’ll promote your music for you? With social media and streaming platforms I don’t think I would ever want to sign to a label and give up the control over my art.
its hard to turn down $100,000 or $1,000,000 when its in your face!
It’s harder to get exposure by self releases nowadays if you don’t already have a somewhat stable fanbase, especially with a lot of artists around the world it’s pretty hard to stand out
There are a few reasons you would sign to a label, fronted capital is one, notoriety/“official-ness” is another. There’s a kid that him, I, and another kid were the biggest highschool rappers when we were in highschool. This guy got signed by a label when the whole “unique rapper” trend was going on with the labels and he is Asian. He instantly had industry connections at his finger tips, he got to go to top tier professional studios essentially for free, they fronted him like 50k or something like that and suddenly he’s not just “dude making tracks in his basement” now he’s a local legend who is a professional so when he comes to town people are bidding for his performance instead of him doing pay for play or free shows. THESE DAYS (unless you’re lucky like that) you’re better to stay independent and work a deal with a distributor or work up your own distribution. That’s because these days you have to ALREADY be “trendy” enough to have enough inflow to even get their attention that you might as well ride that on your own unless you just hate doing everything and want it all outsourced and you don’t want to find all the people to outsource the different jobs to.
Capital upfront to know you can “survive” off just music is one.
Another is that labels have doors that can get opened alot quicker than doing it yourself if even possible by yourself really. I can see some reasons that are beneficial but at the end of the day… Creating that leverage is what will get the best deal from labels and that’s where it seems to be the best. Just my opinion
This is capitalism 101. Work smart not hard. Work for yourself not others.
Labels are done. Lots of artists are making a lot of money in the sync world because most sync deals offer you master ownership and they DONT want to license big artists/songs
If you’re an artist/producer then focus on sync
You put out a royalty free sample pack, then when a song using one of those samples went platinum you went after the producer for some royalties, you sir are the dark side of the industry too
Dead ass
It's really not that complicated... there are soooo many great artists and producers out there. If somebody is willing to work for those 3 points, they will get the job. Hit songs and big artists come and go all the time.
Film industry is also based on points. Directors will have a set amount of points (not that many) while the studio execs get the majority
I actually wrote a whole research paper in college dealing with the topic of labor exploitation in entertainment and creative industries. You're trapped in an endless loop of, "I'm going to take this bad deal because it's going to further my career." And the culture around these industries is designed that way. They give you the tiniest amount and gaslight you into thinking that "this is what it takes to make it." and "I should be so grateful to have this gig." It's top tier endgame capitalism tbh. It's like this in every industry and line of work except with the music industry it's capitalism on steroids.
been a Jon Bellion fan for a minute and seen him a few times. Its too bad his first interview back after many years is with this former impulsive clown interviewer.
As much as social media has it's cons, it's finally given artists a chance to succeed without labels.
I'm grateful that I live in this era and that I'm able to do what I do without the need for record deal and seeing this and Jons interview has already backed up how I feel about this industry.
but how are they getting paid ? The money from streaming is also robbery
@bontempo1271 stream royalties, subscriptions, ad breaks, brand deals to name a few.
I agree though, the amount of views and streams you have to get to earn anything even slightly worthwhile is still a lot, but if a label is only giving you roughly 7 points, then the amount you need becomes insane.
@@openboundariesofficial so yea, it's not really succeeding, it's scraping what you can in alternative ways, ways that the majority will not succeed with.
It's so disgusting whats going on and somehow artists must unite to circumvent the industry machine, which is really just 4 big labels and the non-proftiable streaming platforms
@bontempo1271 yeah I feel artists and creatives have had to scrape by for way too long. And I'd rather not have to sit and promote some random phone game I dont like or play just to earn some money 🤦♂️
@@openboundariesofficial It's a craft that takes years to master and of course - talent.
It's now taken for granted
The Points thing seems like an American thing, I'll be damned if I ever let anyone reduce my percentage & my effort down to something so Trivial.
Yeah I’m still paying back only 8 fucking thousand from 15 years ago on a single that generated over 200 thousand. UMG at their finest 🤣
what you mean by this, please elaborate
Sign a deal ➡️ label gives you the resources to become mega famous but you earn pennies ➡️ when you’re out the deal you’re less relevant but all your money is yours but never have the same buzz as when you started
Don’t sign the deal ➡️ you’re a starving artist who owns 100% of your music but you now have to work 100x as hard as someone signed because you don’t have a label backing you with resources ➡️ run the risk of never blowing up
I heard one of the creators of spawn in an interview said that if something didn’t feel right he would ask, “if you were me and you were offered this deal would you take it”? And if they even had a moment of hesitation he would decline immediately.
The more artists become aware of the corruption in the industry, the more they will stay independent. And the more successful independent artists there are, the less assets labels will have. You said in the video that there has to be some sort of solution but I think this IS the solution. Spreading awareness of the corruption. Labels need artists to be successful. But it's been proven that artists don't need labels.
here’s the problem! Statistically there have been more successful signed artists in the last month alone, then successful independent artists in the last 50 years, THAT’S CRAZY!!!! I get saying “Don’t sign to a label” but the thing is, realistically you have a BETTER chance of making it after getting signed, then making it independently (and that’s backed by statistics) it’s a shot in the dark both ways BUT your chances percentage wise are SO MUCH better taking your shot with a label! Your advice should’ve been “Be financially smart with your advance” at least 50% should be put back into your music & or invested into businesses, stakes, stocks, stuff that’ll make your advance back in double so you can then invest even more into your music
The problem isn’t necessarily “the labels” the problem is the artists not being financially literate with “what” the labels give them! I know artists that are sleeping in motels in tours, I know artists that are bunking in the tour van, I also know artists that want a 5 star penthouse for the night
Who’s getting the best bang for their buck in the long run?
I'm making a serious stab at rising up in the music world.... but it's so hard to connect with people making music that are serious about it and treat it as a business. It seems too many of the "music art" spaces are just hobbysts who feel like thinking of money is antithetical to doing art.....
Watched the Jon interview earlier today - was pumped to hear your input. This, for me… was probably one of the best videos I’ve watched of yours. Sincere and conversational. You’re growing man… it’s special to see you develop musically and professionally. I really appreciate your contributions to the music production space. 👊🏽 You’re a gift Kyle. God bless you.
Thank you glad you enjoyed my take
This has been common knowledge since TLC. If you sign a deal you shouldn’t expect anything other than an opportunity. It’s up to you to figure out how to capitalize and turn it into other areas of revenue.
We all think that we're smart enough to make some smart investments, for future gains but surviving in the in between is where it breaks you down.
Kyle, is your main job video-making? What aspect of your brand brings in the most capital
Getting in a position where you CAN say no implies you have to sacrifice and progress less as an artist having to make money on the side to pursue music.
Sad indeed
*Ryan Leslie* is also a great producer too
"If that is the case - what does my record contract look like" - oh man - mind blowing 😮
Absolutely incredible! I started watching Kyle Beats like 5-6 years ago or longer when i was first learning how to produce on FL Studio. And Jon Bellion has been an inspirational artist that I've looked up to for awhile but i never knew that Kyle was inspired by him as well! That's so awesome!!! 😎
I'm literally eating Ramen noodles right now.
Curtis King says direct to consumer. Hes pasionate about this and its what we should all be doing
Independent artists are going to win this time round
Labels only leverage is money : That's very flase, they got priviledge from their power, they got the contacts, they got relations in the media, they got relations with social media, they got relations with the biggest entreprise in the world : Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Tecent, Epic Games, Black Rock and so on ...
Could you react to the Ren and Kujobeats beef? First the clip Ren does about what happened and then the Kujo Beat Down song and Sick Boi. I feel like you may havesome good insight for the whole situation.
Respectfully, Kyle is a youtube/SoundCloud producer. He’s a good producer but he’s no jon bellion. Kinda silly to hear him speak as if that’s even an option for him.
What I don't understand is why are artist using these labels? What do you need from a label today?
This is exactly why we created our private community for musicians! To show them the real contracts, have entertainment lawyers teach them, have platinum producers mentor them and to protect each other from the side of the industry that just wants to use and abuse artists.
😃
I’d love to know more about the community!
23:55 Pikimin Music 👍
No one cares about Kyle’s beats, learn how to mix and stop the preproduction and start mixing. A hint is KRKs ain’t going to do it
I have been doing music for a while now, taught myself how to do everything from mixing and mastering to writing lyrics, to singing and filming videos and editing.
I cannot get the views, or the attention, i have studied how to marketing and youtube and everything. Idk what I am doing wrong and why I cannot get even 1k views on a song.
Im told my stuff is really good, but its not going anywhere, and its getting really hard to keep going. I just want to be heard and work with others and create but, im not getting my chance, and its really starting to discourage me.
Its like im banned from even getting a start and idk what I am doing wrong.
19:00 "when you found all this out, were you in the middle of a tour?" "yeah, I was in the middle of a breakdown"
Well, like john said its all about teaching business sense, and allow people to see the value of their craft. If you don't say yes now mentality you will never get your shot is so grimey! Best of luck to you all producers. We just have to stand our ground more than ever!
labels get pieces of everyone so they should be fine w taking much less than someone who doesnt have 100 artists releasing w them every month. its just greed.
Jon Bellion aint get enough recognition, absolutely amazing producer gon go down as one of the best hands down.
Fidgeting with the MC is so real lol
It's unfortunate people hate on Russ bc he's been saying this for years.
If artists don't know by now, record labels are just banks which provide upfront financing in exchange for permanent indentured servitude.
there may be a way to help change this but would take quite the collaboration? But I do have some expertise if it's something you would be interested in discussing Kyle! Peace bro, keep up the good work!
I guess now Spotify made everyone feel the pain music producers get from royalty and publishing deals.
Fuck music labels but music artists/producers are also not innocent. There are reasons why the industry ended up in this position. They are not speaking on the fact that in every art medium there are undercutters & people chasing clout not living off ramen just taking the weakest deals ruining the market & taking away the leverage these talented people seek. There are many variables that ruin a market before someone takes it over. Just food for thought. I don’t work specifically in the hip hop industry but another genre in the music industry.
Clout chasing, not valuing themselves & money hungry is always going to ruin a market.
my mom knew ab bellion when he was knew glad i kinda grew up listening to one of the goats
This is one of the reasons i decided to go solo as a music producer work with few artists but mostly work on my craft on spotify beats remixes covers till i got used to work alone than work with artists as an independent music producer
Man.. I loved playing songs when I didn't know shit about it.. I mean I was years into playing .. in rural Tennessee in the late 8os.. and learned how to play by ear.. Im nothing special but I got life.. I got life .. and I wrote songs .. played in bands.. and when studio and precision forced the stereotype and mold.. fitting and it lost its feeling.. I went back to playing porch with my bro.. but it's a choice at the fork.. fortune fame... Contentment and at your whim... Choose..
I watched this video with just the audio and I swear Kyle Beats sounds an awful lot like Derek from More Plates More Dates 😅
Not only do you have to be independent nowadays you also have to know a little bit about everything. It’s mainly just staying informed. You may be good at making beats but are people open to take advantage of your talents?
You can sell out arenas and millions of people know who you are but your deal means you making a minority share like John explains. Or as an independent you could play to a couple hundred people a night in a small club and keep the majority of your earnings. The industry is filled with smoke and mirrors and the industry is filled with predators. The love of money is the root of all evil. It has led to the exploitation of most of us working class citizens of the globe in some shape or form. Thanks for making people aware of this issue Kyle.
It's crazy how there aren't baseline laws for profit sharing in the US. This is the reason people who actually do the work get screwed in every single industry by mfs who don't work.
At 7:30 the only reason i can think why the label wouldnt care wheter you made all 3 albums is because the money they give you is a loan. The artist has to use that money to fund studio time, maybe hiring other artists, hardware or even funding their oown tour to promote that album. Either way the label gets their money back as its all just a "loan" for services to be completed. They go after the next hot thing/ artist as they get another artist trapped in the vicious cycle of "well you spent all the money on strip clubs and sports cars but you still owe us music so go get to fucking work".
The real issue is that there is heavy money involved. Because of that money you producers give up your leverage because you won't start a union, with actual teeth. You can't fault a label because the people making them their money are too isolationist to unionize and actually have leverage when you go to the table
I saw that video when it came out and it really hit. It's so sad to see these deals still going around. "If only there was a renaissance in the music industry!"
As someone who know’s nothing about music. Where would a good place to start making music?
Jon is a fucking legend.
Most promoter / artist splits are closer to 10 / 90% in favor of the artist. Where are you getting these numbers from?
Hey kyle I’m praying for your soul. I love your content but I want even more that you know God!
Free Tory Lanez
Kyle I love the insight from you and the jon bellion interview . I’ve always known some insight but this opened my eyes
What if these people aren't making nothing also for upwards of 3to5 years or 7 years?
seems like labels just be taking most of the money while doing the least amount of work
I’m so glad you skipped all jankos butted in religious crap, like this is what I was hoping the interview would be and was so excited it was 2 whole hours long but then literally like an hour of it was janko vaguely repsonding then preaching for a few minutes, i was generally skipping past any time he spoke by the time I was halfway through it
I agree that the music industry needs reformation, but a lot of the things you are saying are just incorrect stereotypes about labels
I think artists should start independent build a following and a decent back catalog that way a label eventually comes to them and the ball is in there court
Most people are worried about losing but if u dont give a fuck then that wont matter let ur music be lost but just remember u can always win
I'm going around trying to add my input on things I find that.. I feel compelled to throw about and roll out .
yo kyle welcome back
his music was so good to i still listen to his music everyday. Hoping for new music.
If you are in the position to be able to book a big tour, just hire some people to plan it for you. It no different to what the labels do, you just have to find someone good enough to get you the best spots at the most money.
I never wanna sign to a big label, if i get the chance. Jist because like youre a slave to them
nowadays building a personal brand to go with your music is a must have imo.
19:13 ty for supporting artists. I def won’t be bashing on anyone for “falling off.”
THIS VIDEO NEEDS WAYYYY MORE VIEWS. LET US BE THE GENERATION TO OPEN PEOPLES EYES, AND BENEFIT OFF OF IT AS WELL.
Wow such a eye opener, all I want in my life is to create one good song, I don't care about being a one hit wonder, just one song that people jam to would be a dream come true. I don't want signed on a label or make millions just one hit that plays for one year. To make it on a top 100 album of that year is really all I care about haha!! but damn 3 points for 100% of the creation fuck that!!
Music is a part of all cultures. Find ways to be a part of it without getting screwed over.
This was an eye opener for sure 💯
Bro , what part of a music label is like a bank do we still not understand?
Anybody here interested in making a producer label?
Kyle, Are this guy your twin brother. you and him are so same like a twins.
BRO LET THE GUY TALK EVERY MIN PAUSE AND REVIEW LIKE CMON