I know this is a result of the whole Kickstarter bloat thing, but its crazy to me that the big boss of this game isn't a Thunderjaw. It's like playing a Jurassic Park game where the final boss is a velociraptor instead of a T-rex.
I get *why* they made the Sawtooth the Core Boss - it's one of the first combat machines you encounter in the video game - but yeah it was the wrong choice. There's plenty of dangerous beasts they could have used, even if they wanted to save Thunderjaws and Rockbreakers for expansions, and Snapjaws and Stormbirds for air/water add-ons.... you've STILL got Tramplers, Scorchers, and Stalkers.
Here's the thing, the appeal (at least to me, YMMV) of HZD is the story and Aloy's journey of discovery of her origin and the absolutely superbly done slow reveal of the history of the world. Killing machines is just one of the means to those ends so you have enough resources and XP to make it to the end. This board game reduces the gameplay to one, relatively insignificant aspect of the video game,
Random, unbalanced card draw, dice chucking, and poorly conceived semi-coop play - lazy design at its finest. I say lazy, but the sad part is that it looks like a ton of work went into making this game.
Yes and no. It shares a lot with the Dark Souls game they also did - in a sense, this feels less like its own game, and more like an iteration of that, with semi-coop and victory points thrown in. Even the entire turn structure feels the same, with the way enemies activate. I wouldn't call it lazy per se, but it certainly doesn't feel creative, clever, or fun.
Looks like whoever worked in the graphic design department did a stellar job, it all looks amazing. Though also looks like whoever works in the gameplay design department should probably no longer do so.
I notice no one mentioned anything about play testing this game and having played this game I can confirm no one could have play tested this game who had any idea what a board game was :(
Well the campaign overall was quite lazy. I never felt that in touch with development of game or where they were at in the development. Glad i didnt throw more money at this game just to get it 6 months to a year earlier lol which is still a long way off from what it was supposed to be. I accept that a being part of KS but this campaign was ridiculous. Well lesson learned. No more backing SF on KS. Sad to hear they are making monster hunter. Maybe i should back primal instead then. Probably alot safer given the positive reviews thus far.
I think you guys have missed a couple core rules. When you're attacked you have to dodge roll away. So even though the machines will attack you, you do have the ability to dodge roll towards another hunter and leave them the machines target. Also, in all the games I've played I've never had a player throw away all of their cards in an attack unless they do it was going to get them glory and they would be able to continue on. Like you said with fine print, when you faint you lose all your glory. And glory is kind of the point. A player who is the only one to faint is almost certainly going to lose the round. Also you can't do actions twice. So you're incorrect when you said your character could melee twice. Also you can't trigger more than one ability card on a move. So you can't dump continual moves into an action. Also, I don't know why you guys think a video game board game requires ease of access. People who play video games are capable of critical thinking and understanding complicated rule books. there's a giant overlap between board gamers and video gamers. With the Oseram you also don't get glory for setting each thing on fire. You get glory if you set something on fire on your turn. So an AOE fire attack will not get you nine glory. It will get you one. The cards that make machines non-alert that people are talking about are in the expansions. They were future-proofing the game. with some of the rules. Which I realized means very little right now. It is confusing. Ultimately, I don't think the game is nearly as bad as you make it out to be, And that's probably because the rules you got wrong you really got wrong. But I do agree with a lot of your criticisms and find the game underwhelming. From scenario one to scenario five the feel is very similar. There's no real sense that your hunter is improving in a meaningful way. Or that the machines are getting stronger/smarter.
It's true, we made some rules errors and whilst normally I would be concerned about that, I'd say here our misinterpretations only make the game more exciting. In most cases, the fact that the game works not how we perceived it is an even bigger disappointment.
Also, some of these are just assumptions. We very much known how dodge works, we simply neglected to mention it as we don't cover the rules in full. The proposed scenario isn't out of the realm of possibility. I know this, because it happened (even with dodge).
@@NoPunIncluded @No Pun Included Fair enough. I guess presenting it as the common occurrence when it's probably a rare occurrence would be my nitpick. I could see Dodge failing, but in over 20 games with four players each time I've never had that experience. So my sample size isnt insignificant when I claim it's probably not a common occurrence. I do agree some of the rule misinterpretations would make the game more exciting. Dumping a ton of cards on the table to do a giant lavish attack is pretty exciting. But also game breaking.
But that part relating to attacks wasn't really critique, we were just relaying some game elements. Overall, we flubbed a few things, yes, but nothing that ultimately makes me rethink our experience in any meaningful way.
@@NoPunIncluded haha, Fair enough. The game certainly has its flaws And when all is said and done I have to admit it feels like the creators missed the mark. With any luck the expansions will meaningfully flesh out the game.
Having played Dark Souls the board game, I did not expect good things from this review. Hearing the words semi-cooperative added to the feeling that the game won't be good. Yea...
At this point, every time I see a kickstarter project full of miniatures, I immediately expect that it's going to be an underdeveloped mess. On top of that, these games end up flooding the market at the expense of the entire industry.
Exactly. They eat up all the press, people blow hundreds of dollars they could have spent on smaller publishers who care about making good games, and they're so "successful" at getting funded that everyone else rushes in to do the same thing, only exacerbating the problem.
@@AdamJorgensen I'm speaking more in general terms. At the moment, the number of games that come out is growing exponentially and several publishers are lamenting how the trend is hurting them. Because the market is so crowded, games have a very short lifespan and rarely get a second print run. The problem is then exacerbated by the current influx of KS games... which I personally find particularly negative, especially since so many of them seem to be only 80% complete from a design point of view. That's why I say that these KS projects hurt the industry: they flood an already crowded market and most of them aren't polished as they could/should be.
Why is this? developing and printing miniatures is a big expense and tons of work; you'd think that when going to that much work, designing an actual fun game to play with them would be the easier part.
@@BOAiak my experience is that board game aficionados are tge most pretentious, arrogant and elitist people around. Yoi have amazing computer games that give vastly deep experiences.
Absolutely terrible game, you only need to look at the SFG's track record to know it's going to be bad. They cannot make games and try to jump on the miniature train and hype of the IP to gain sales. They start numerous other Kickstarter campaigns to pay for the promises made on the ones before. Unfortunately I learnt my lesson with Dark Souls, a game that needs so many house rules to make it bearable, thankfully the amazing community on BGG have put together their own rule set, just need to some time and take a deep breath before trying again. Thank you for the entertaining review as always and keep up the great work.
Yeah. I had high hopes for Dark Souls myself. I've got such a huge backlog of games though that I haven't even played it but looked at a lot of reviews. This does not make me happy that SFG got the rights to make a Monster Hunter board game.
Eh, they didn't like Tainted Grail either and that game was generally loved by most people who played it. They're still stating an opinion, not an objective truth.
After seeing more of these kickstarter games riddled with miniatures I see how lucky I am, as I bought a couple of these style of games on a whim because "minis good, dice good' and those were Death May Die and LOTR JiME, which are both fucking awesome
I enjoyed painting the minis for Dark Souls greatly. I’m a huge fan of the IP so getting to see actual representations of things I like was cool. The game itself sucks balls though. I’ve played it once and probably will never play it again. I’m keeping it for the miniatures though. Could be used for a rpg campaign or something
@@TheErnieforss Keep in mind SFG had the brilliant idea to make an app so you could make your own cards in Bardsung and I thought "Hey, that's pretty clever." Then I realized they did this so you could fix the game that they know/will know is awful, untested and ultimately rubbish :( Spoiler alert, I am not backing Bardsung (self high five!)
Hmm how about, if you just throw in more monsters? Ive played it solo, and found it way to easy (just one hero) Next time, im gonna play it with the 3-4 player settings (*2 monsters) Any1 tried to just double up the Machines (and jeg play it as a coop game)?
BTW the miniatures are all 28 mm - imo all to small and a shame. The Heroes looks good, and are of an better quality than the machines. They really need to ramp up the machines to 32-35 mm and cast them in the same plastic as the Heroes...
1:49 - Ahhh... SPIRE: The City Must Fall!!! Awesome RPG one of my favs! It needs more love and buzz, althou I gather it's not for everyone, but the world is amazing and the mechanics are just genius.
Man this is so sad. The publisher is also going to bring Monster Hunter boardgame to kickstarter in the first half of 2021, and because I love those games I am (was) quite hyped. I hope they take in all the feedback & reviews and learn from it. In any case this video was a lot of fun to watch! Thank you guys :D
They have several playthrough videos of MHW:TBG now. It seems pretty smooth. I'm currently doing research on their previous games to figure out if mechanics and concepts have been improved since previous games.
Yet lots of people will throw there money at it. Steamforged have given yet more proof with HZD that they do not not know how to make boardgames fun, there operation is to get the big IPs and let that make the money.
@@donbooger I'm following Bardsung atm which is interesting in that it's their own IP. Certainly seems to be going well as a campaign and doesn't have a big name to hang itself on
@@rdot8419 Im intrigued by primal, but really going to need some good gameplay videos before I back it. The pie board just doesnt capture my excitement as much, and at first glance the card system seems like tainted grail, and I wasnt that big a fan of that style of conflict resolution, got very samey after a while.
As of right now the closest you're going to get to Monster Hunter in a board game is Kingdom Death. It's expensive and merciless, but deeply thematic and fun.
SOoooooo glad, I cancelled on last day, was all in, but after getting a question about gameplay answered in a shrug type of reply, my confidance dropped, and I was lucky to cancel the KS in time. Plus side, You can eat HZ and at least you get some value from it.
I actually genuinely like this game quite a bit. It has issues, but it's still really fun. That said, the "semi-coop" really isn't a thing. It is competitive. Saying otherwise ignores the mechanisms and goal of the game. Playing full co-op is alright, but it requires some home-brew to make it even a bit challenging. The developer has said that the expansions coming next year will provide much higher difficulty, but it should have been an option in the base game.
Loved it. Please do a review of Bardsung :-) It really looks like a very bland game, but everyone's been so kind to it in their "Kickstarter previews".
@@Hieronymus-Pseudonymous I'm asking for a review as soon as they can get a copy (please, Efka?). Bardsung looked to have some fascinating ideas (like Horizon), such as the procedurally generated dungeons and the big-name writers on board. NPI's reviews are both hilarious and detailed enough that I can get a really good feel for the game, and I'd love to see them cover it.
You should give Rising Sun another play. My group loves that game. It's actually quite easy to learn and play, but hard to master. My favorite part about the game is how many avenues there are for winning. It's not just all combat all the time. Anyway, good review, although a little on the long side for me.
I just love the look of this game, and I wanted the game badly! But I reminded myself that it could be that the box is nice with no other redeeming features... Your review helped me to feel that I did the right choice.
What's this you say? You mean a KICKSTARTER game with PRETTY MINIS based on a VIDEO GAME was a total letdown??? I REFUSE TO BELIEVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (this is sarcasm, in case you can't tell, because I've found that unless I point out my sarcasm, the internet generally doesn't understand that I'm being sarcastic. "You can't sense sarcasm in text" they say, well I wholeheartedly disagree, yet I'm still having to point out my sarcasm regularly otherwise people think I'm really being serious). But seriously, down with Kickstarter board games. I'm 100% done with them. They're never well designed, they're never proofread and playtested enough, every KS board game I've ever backed has been a disappointment for me. I'm over it.
This was so entertaining! Well done. I wanted to go all in on this game because the game is one of my favorites and the minis were so awesome looking. But the gameplay just felt lackluster and this just proves it. Thanks for helping me know I was right not to back it. And I so feel the ending! LOL Dice Tower spent most of their review of my game Fossilis talking about it's shortcomings only to score it 7 and 8's. Which was great, but it would have been nice for them to talk more about the positives as well if they ultimately enjoyed it.
Thanks for the honest reviews. I went a bit crazy a few years ago and started backing a lot of board games on kickstarter. Lots of minis and a great IP's, how could they fail... this was yet another one I went fully in on. Ouch. I guess I'm gonna be making a lot of my own house rules to enjoy this one!
It just sounds like it needed more time to be developed? I was hoping for some forgiving kind of Kingdom Death multi monster gameplay but with a simple set up and play process maybe. I don't understand how they didn't play it themselves and fix the floors?
Thank you for your sacrifice, guys 🙈Please can we stop supporting Kickstarters with 1) big chuncks of plastics and 2) based on video game franchises.. It always ends in dissappointment.
This is why I watched a Darkest Dungeon set-up video and cancelled my pledge. Can't wait to finally get Bloodborne and realize it's a mess as well! Board game adaptations of video games are the new movie adaptations of video games.
My wife went all in on this game because she loves the video game. I haven't played the co-op variant yet. But just like I warned my wife, and the developers. It turns out semi-coop is still a blatant lie. I had a moment in a game where my wife was winning, and the smart thing would have been to let a machine kill her (therefore losing all glory points). In what world is that fun? Its for sure not in the spirit of the game. Even the missions you play as Aloy for the hunters lodge. The people you team up with WORK TOGETHER for glory over the other hunters. If you don't want a hunter to have glory, don't go fighting with them. Also the base box is just way too little content. After 4 scenarios, the boss does just feel kinda meh. Especially since one of the previous hard scenarios we played was more challenging. There are abilities that don't make sense, and the event deck sucks. That being said. We enjoyed the gameplay, and she is very excited to get all the expansions next year. But I'm really worried that the hundreds of dollars we spent are going to end up only giving us some cool minis. (Which were surprisingly small) Also the end bit/joke at Dice Tower is hilarious! But unfortunately I still enjoyed the game enough that I rated it a 7/10 on BGG and I have all these issues with it. So yeah.... You got me too.
Yeah, we really, really enjoyed the gameplay. But the lack of content and the obviously 'better if played pure co-op against harder machines' is a major issue. This is not a game, it's a sampler for the full game.
Sounds like very fixable design issues tbh. In fact you could even have a bit of 'hidden role' type mechanic, or anything like that, where the game becomes equally if not more about how you strategically manage your relationships with the other players while fighting the monsters. It becomes a sort of iterated prisoner dilemma where you can go for a short term gain by betraying the other players but then suffer in the long run as your reputation naturally takes a hit. That's the kind of thing that creates depth and replayability in an otherwise simple game--ultimate example of course being Diplomacy, simultaneously the simplest possible 'dudes on a map' game and also one of the deepest and most complex and difficult to analyze games at a high level ever made because 90% of the game is about how you read and manage relationships with other humans, one of the most cognitively difficult and complex things we've evolved to do.
Got it of KS and I must agree. So far I played it solo and the challenge dropped really fast even with one player. The tiger radar also confused me and the minis,... we complained about them already during the campaign.
It is absolutely legal to for more than one enemy to be in the same space at the same time. it's only the "huge machines" (Sawtooth and Shellwalker in base game) that can't share a space with another huge machine. The issue with being attacked four times in a row shouldn't be a fatal one. Remember you must "dodge" (move one space) after every enemy attack. This combined with the fact that machines target the most recently activated hunter makes it very easy move to a position where you won't be attacked. You are right that, it needs to make up its mind if it's co-op or competitive. There are a lot of mechanics that would work well for co-op, but co-op mode is trash. The rule book is also trash. I have no idea what you were talking about with this one. Slogging through it, I found myself having to flip back an forth referencing aspects of the same mechanic in totally different parts of the manual, or getting in depth descriptions of cards that I don't know how to play yet. (I don't blame you for missing a couple rules. I'd have missed much more if it weren't for the many BGG threads on the subject.) It may be the HZD fan-boy in me, but overall I enjoy the board game. Leveling up your gear, building a deck, and racing your opponent to kill the most machines I think is fun. The board game is nowhere near the caliber of the video game, and far from the best board game I've played, but far from the worst as well.
Damn, I'm a board gamer and loved Horizon the video game so backed this. Being positive, I really hope the expansions balance this out to the point coop is exciting.
That mid-review smirk by Elaine during the setup was pure gold. Thanks, you two, for taking the time to film a negative review. I still find them useful and entertaining.
Thanks for the review. This is easily a game I could have been completely sold on reading rules and checking out. I just hate when I go in to that mode and get that hype game and it falls flat. Thumbs up.
Thank you for the review! I backed the Kickstarter for minis to paint, with the idea that even if the game is bad I could use them for my own HZD homebrew. I've loved working with the minis so far. I'm sad to see the game didn't deliver what the designers intended. Hopefully the cooperative campaign they're delivering later will be better.
But yeah, any designers who are trying to do "semi-coop" need to really playtest that to make sure they're not just making a broken competitive game. I'm not convinced that happened here.
@@twentysides - but really, the only thing making this ‘semi’ co-op is the possibility of the whole scenario failing if there are too many faints...house rule this out and just play full competitive, or just play full co-op and eliminate the competitive angle altogether. I feel the difficulty of balancing your actions to benefit you while keeping the other hunters distracted with the machines and taking advantage of any opportunities that arise but not SO MUCH that the other hunters die....leads to some fun strategy. My kids and my game group enjoy it and that’s enough for me.
I mainly got it for the minatures. Hopefully the community will come up house rules to make it better. Also, the expansions might give us some interesting battles. Good review! Great job with the spoon!
Yeah...I agree it’s a 7-7.5 rating on this game, assuming the 7/10 at the end was legit and not just part of the Dice Tower schtick. It needs more baddies to fight, but the core mechanics with 4players is actually a lot of fun. It might seem unbalanced on the Osseram side with the fire bits, but I’m pretty sure the extra glory is only applicable to a machine that’s not already on fire and 2, you can’t do the same action twice, so I’m not sure how they’re doing double attacks with fire damage in the first place with that Hunter. Not to mention you can’t toss a trap (Osseram’s base range weapon) into a space with a machine anyway...you have to place the trap in another space and then lure the machine into it, or hope it pops in there for some other reason, which takes strategy and timing to pull off. So...how they’re pulling off a double attack on multiple monsters with double fire and gaining that much glory, is a remote oilier of something that’s possible and/or beyond me. If you did all the setup to make that happen, take your glory...you earned it!
Thanks for the insightful review. Great as always and glad now that I didn't back it. Also makes it easier to not back Bardsung because I still haven't seen a great boardgame from SFG. I also think you forgot to link your patreon page in the Description (really glad to see you guys have already a great number of patreons! You deserve it).
Why would I ever play a board game based on such an excellent video game? One requires 25-50 pages of reading, the other requires me to insert a disc. This is what drives me nuts when board gamers rag on video games. They're both excellent mediums, but sometimes I just don't feel like doing the leg work to learn the rules of a board game and I just want to throw in a disc and play immediately. It's why I have a whole bunch of board games I haven't played yet.
Hey Elaine, I don’t think the Oseram guy works that way. The card says “when an attack... applies 🔥 to one or more enemies...” It doesn’t give you 3 glory for one attack dealing fire to 3 people, just 1.
"Sword & Sorcery" is absolutely great if you can live with the playtime and some GUI fiddliness. Although I must mention that I find "Rising Sun" to be really interesting.
Thank you for this review. The vidoe game was one of the greatest games I've ever played. I so wanted to walk out of the game store when I saw this massive box. Not that I have a ton of cash on hand but so wouldn't have cared about dropping 100 at that moment. Later yes but the want of good game from something I loved was strong. After watching this so glad I didn't waste all that cash.
One of my coworkers(who loves to pledge KS games only to sell them after he's disappointed) mentioned this game a few months back with such hype, hoping that I'll reinforce his enthusiasm, since I am a huge huge fan of the PS4 game. I had the feeling that this is going to be another miniature cashgrab, just because how difficult it is to translate an excellent game mechanic(stalking and hunting the machines in-game with traps and arrows) to a tabletop environment, where you lose all dynamic aspects of that combat. In order for this to be successful, they would have needed to recreate the same tension with dice and card interactions, which very difficult to do in a boardgame setting. Shame to see the IP squandered like this, but hey, Forbidden West is out June 2021.
One thing to consider is that Efka and Elaine probably played this at 2. Our group played it at 4 and even though it was long, we had a considerably more fun time than what the review makes it out to be. There have been numerous reports on bgg that this is where the semi-coop cut-throat nature of the game truly comes out and that the 2p experience is really lack-lustre. I suspect it was never balanced or really play-tested at lower player counts. Having said that the flaws pointed out are valid also - there are indeed potential balancing issues, the variety of monsters and AI still needs work , and the rulebook is annoyingly verbose.
I would say that Horizons, the video game, strongest feature is its storyline. It’s a fascinating, and ultimately, deeply dramatic one. Not sure how much I would care about the universe without that story.
I didn’t realize this was a Steam Forged Games game, but upon hearing that it is, it all makes sense. I haven’t been too impressed with SFG's ability to balance game mechanics and produce compelling gameplay. Sure, I did buy into the Dark Souls board game, and I do enjoy the game, for the most part. However, that has been only after a significant effort to rewrite rules and some basic mechanisms in the game to reduce a lot of the tedium and rebalance some of the more nefarious aspect of the game; admittedly this effort was comprised of me going through the BGG forums and compiling together various variants of rules posed by the community, and I eventually landed upon the grindless-variant thread by DSSirus, for which I posted a PDF compilation of those rules with some minor alterations and additions of my own based on other discussion threads. But, the fundamental problem is that the game has required a massive community effort to FIX the game and actually make it fun and enjoyable, because the original rules just did not do it. I think one of the things SFG doesn’t seem to realize is that you shouldn’t be trying to replicate, exactly, the flow and mechanics of a video game into a board game. The things that work in a video game work well in that medium because of the inherent nature of the medium, the ability to save state, the ability of the world and setting to operate independent of the player (as opposed to players having to manipulate every part and piece), and the ability to have unambiguous enforcement of *every* rule even though the player's may not be familiar with or knowing of all the rules (whereas, in a board game, players must not only know and understand all the rules, but they must also correctly interpret the consequences of those rules else the game could become unbalanced or unfair). Instead of trying to make a literal translation of a video game into a board game, more what you want to do is only capture the spirit, essence, or flavoring of the video game while still conforming to the constraints imposed by the board game medium. While I love the HZD video game, myself, it sounds like the board game version is another game that will require some effort from the community to fix its broken parts, particularly the character balance issues and creating compelling, balanced interactions for competitive and cooperate gameplay that don’t devolve to trivial strategies.
Finally 4k quality, Elaine's colorful sweater makes better use of my TV than 90% of all TV shows 👍👍 great video as always, game looks cool (not as cool as the video game though)
I would really love you guys to use patreon money and buy Kingdom death monster core box during black Friday. It sounds like every thing promising here would feel like success playing KDM
Being a board game based on a video game, I was on the fence, given I love the video game this is based on. Missed the Kickstarter,but the game was available,now currently sold out. So looked over the game. Already I was disappointed, why? No Aloy mini in the base game. The only way to get her is in a $50 expansion,that is sold out,and looks like it will not be reprinted. And given your review, I will skip the board game. Thanks,no I mean it, Thanks.
Yeah, Steamforged has to stop ruin IP`s, that could have potential in the right hands. Sad, because no one else will ever touch DS, RE2, Zero Dawn etc... and not enough, soo cool, they re doing the Monster Hunter BG as well.... Thank you guys
So far, so SFG. Dark Souls was awful yet I was stupid enough to still back Resident Evil (which is fine...not great, but not actively awful either). Since then I've finally learned my lesson.
Ha, I was thinking right up until the mid-review turnaround(TM) that you seemed to be rather enthusiastic about this game but nothing you'd said up to that point made the game look particularly compelling. I'm really not sure why you're hopes were particularly high going into it to begin with, especially given your reaction to other minis games.
And the same people are doing the Bloodborne board game.... sigh. At least I got in on the Primal kickstarter which will hopefully fill the niche. And it actually has positive reviews/buzz on its prototype builds
The rules on what constitutes "applying blaze with an attack" are downright not there Made playing what was, for me, the coolest character in to an argument starter Edit: Also its "crazy ability" does state that you only get 1 point for lighting one or more enemies on fire So lighting 3 enemies w one ability is 1 point. The problem is figuring out if your melee attack and the ability card count as 2 applications or not
I was sceptical about backing this when it was live in Kickstarter and thought it would be better to have more reviews when it would hit retail. I was not convinced from the gameplay they presented and I am now glad I didn’t. Pity as HZD is my favourite game of all times. Other than that, Awesome review! Really funny. Had a blast watching it.
After playing HZD the video game, and loving it, I have little interest in a board game version of it. The video game set the bar incredibly high and I just didn't see a board game living up to that level.
Just bought this because it was going cheap and for the miniatures. Sorry Ive not looked but do the expansions make the game better at all? Ill probably still buy them for the figure too.
Kind of disappointed the strongest machine isn't the Thunderjaw or stormbird Had to search this on RUclips because youtube ad was advertising a horizon zero dawn board game
little to late but "gain 1 glory point whenever an attack or trap from this hunter applies to one or more enemies" you gain just 1 if you blaze 1 or 9 enemies in a sigle attack not 9 :P
Just like dark souls, great looking game, all looks amazing but what a drag, nothing really thrilling boss fights are the best and they get bored quickly
Seeing reviews of their games has convinced me that all the bright, passionate people at SFG are long gone and the company is coasting on the capital from licensed kickstarter campaigns.
Backed HZD and added on a couple of the expansions. I agree the core game really does feel like it's missing a big boss ending. You play these very short encounters to get you levelled up and ready, but as they say in the review the last encounter isn't really much different. I'm hoping with the Thunderjaw expansion it'll be a much better experience. Only played it solo so far, which I thought worked well enough. Was probably too easy but I enjoyed it at least....
I played solo and it was ‘ok’. I’ve since played 3p and 4p campaigns and they’re much more fun with a fair amount of strategic depth for me and my game group. I give this a solid 7-7.5 rating...a good game, but needs more for the money in the core box. I’m hoping the rest of the all-in pledge solves that next year and I have a feeling that when more big bads are delivered, this is going to hit my table even more than it does now. I disagree with NPI...this is a good game, delivers on its premise, albeit I do feel there’s a bit missing and there’s not enough in the core box to keep me occupied until the rest of the all in content arrives. Most importantly, where H:ZD is my #1 video game of all time, this delivers a very similar feel on the table top. It’s not my #1 tabletop game, but it is a good amount of fun. Not to mention...the minis are pretty decent for SFG and they look amazing painted...CANNOT WAIT FOR THE THUNDERJAW. I find that the difficulty of the semi-co-op lies in trying to keep the other hunters busy/distracted enough while you snag glory points, but not so terribly busy/distracted that you can’t complete the scenarios and get the much needed resources so you can defeat the big bad. If you can’t handle that/don’t play that way, then just play in full co-op mode for the storyline and the fun. I feel like every NPI review I’ve watched is negative and craps on the game at hand, which has led me to realize we just don’t have the same tastes and that’s ok. Rising Sun, Tainted Grail and Cloudspire...all in my collection and Rising Sun is my #1 game. If this is a 7/10 for them, I’d hate to see what a review on a 5 or a 6 would look like. It’s ok for a game to just be ‘ok’. I really like this IP, so I decided to watch this particular review, fully expecting the negativity, to see if they’d point out anything I happened to agree with....but, once again, the answer is ‘not really’. It’s still a fun game and I’ll continue enjoying it with my kids and my gaming group.
Hello, I am looking for a new game - thank you for this review. Without it I would maybe buy this game :D But still I have an idea - when it is semi-cooperative game, is it possible to play on teams? 2vs2? In that case 2 players could cooperate and attack together. Since the game support competing between each other, we can still compete in teams. Of course we would have to set the higher stats of enemies. Would the game work more in this settup? Is there anything from expansions, which would help this game? Thank you for sharing ideas :)
Not too surprising it's a dog turd. Dark Souls: The Board Game is also a hot, steaming (forged) turd. Not sure how they got the rights to develop another video game adaptation.
Great review. Very enjoyable to watch. I don’t agree with your final assessment. But totally respect your opinions and see where you are coming from. I just personally felt the excitement I felt from the rule book like you translated directly to the game as you do exactly what it says? Although I 100% agree on the issues around semi coop.
@@number3729 yeah...a silly one, IMO. Cheap laughs are just that...cheap. Mildly redeemed by the text overlay during the outro due to the self admitted bad form. Lol.
I know this is a result of the whole Kickstarter bloat thing, but its crazy to me that the big boss of this game isn't a Thunderjaw. It's like playing a Jurassic Park game where the final boss is a velociraptor instead of a T-rex.
I hope the Kick starter wave 2 of all the extra miniatures ads to the game, also I got the Thunderjaw expansion.
@@Claymanfilms that's probably why the base game only had Sawtooth so that you'd buy the expansions
Well that is kind of the point. The Faro machines and the Thunderjaw will be endgame I assume..... unless this game finds its own end earlier.
I get *why* they made the Sawtooth the Core Boss - it's one of the first combat machines you encounter in the video game - but yeah it was the wrong choice. There's plenty of dangerous beasts they could have used, even if they wanted to save Thunderjaws and Rockbreakers for expansions, and Snapjaws and Stormbirds for air/water add-ons.... you've STILL got Tramplers, Scorchers, and Stalkers.
Dramatic Chipmunk will FOREVER be fresh.
I confirm, it's fresh.
Wait, there's a Horizon Zero Dawn board game?
...Oh.
Here's the thing, the appeal (at least to me, YMMV) of HZD is the story and Aloy's journey of discovery of her origin and the absolutely superbly done slow reveal of the history of the world. Killing machines is just one of the means to those ends so you have enough resources and XP to make it to the end.
This board game reduces the gameplay to one, relatively insignificant aspect of the video game,
Random, unbalanced card draw, dice chucking, and poorly conceived semi-coop play - lazy design at its finest. I say lazy, but the sad part is that it looks like a ton of work went into making this game.
Yes and no. It shares a lot with the Dark Souls game they also did - in a sense, this feels less like its own game, and more like an iteration of that, with semi-coop and victory points thrown in. Even the entire turn structure feels the same, with the way enemies activate.
I wouldn't call it lazy per se, but it certainly doesn't feel creative, clever, or fun.
Looks like whoever worked in the graphic design department did a stellar job, it all looks amazing. Though also looks like whoever works in the gameplay design department should probably no longer do so.
this is exactly how i feel about nemesis but dont tell anyone
I notice no one mentioned anything about play testing this game and having played this game I can confirm no one could have play tested this game who had any idea what a board game was :(
Well the campaign overall was quite lazy. I never felt that in touch with development of game or where they were at in the development. Glad i didnt throw more money at this game just to get it 6 months to a year earlier lol which is still a long way off from what it was supposed to be. I accept that a being part of KS but this campaign was ridiculous. Well lesson learned. No more backing SF on KS. Sad to hear they are making monster hunter. Maybe i should back primal instead then. Probably alot safer given the positive reviews thus far.
I laughed way way too hard at the wooden spoon at the end.... will say no more for fear of spoilers but that was a great touch...
I think you guys have missed a couple core rules. When you're attacked you have to dodge roll away. So even though the machines will attack you, you do have the ability to dodge roll towards another hunter and leave them the machines target.
Also, in all the games I've played I've never had a player throw away all of their cards in an attack unless they do it was going to get them glory and they would be able to continue on. Like you said with fine print, when you faint you lose all your glory. And glory is kind of the point. A player who is the only one to faint is almost certainly going to lose the round.
Also you can't do actions twice. So you're incorrect when you said your character could melee twice. Also you can't trigger more than one ability card on a move. So you can't dump continual moves into an action.
Also, I don't know why you guys think a video game board game requires ease of access. People who play video games are capable of critical thinking and understanding complicated rule books. there's a giant overlap between board gamers and video gamers.
With the Oseram you also don't get glory for setting each thing on fire. You get glory if you set something on fire on your turn. So an AOE fire attack will not get you nine glory. It will get you one.
The cards that make machines non-alert that people are talking about are in the expansions. They were future-proofing the game. with some of the rules. Which I realized means very little right now. It is confusing.
Ultimately, I don't think the game is nearly as bad as you make it out to be, And that's probably because the rules you got wrong you really got wrong. But I do agree with a lot of your criticisms and find the game underwhelming. From scenario one to scenario five the feel is very similar. There's no real sense that your hunter is improving in a meaningful way. Or that the machines are getting stronger/smarter.
It's true, we made some rules errors and whilst normally I would be concerned about that, I'd say here our misinterpretations only make the game more exciting. In most cases, the fact that the game works not how we perceived it is an even bigger disappointment.
Also, some of these are just assumptions. We very much known how dodge works, we simply neglected to mention it as we don't cover the rules in full. The proposed scenario isn't out of the realm of possibility. I know this, because it happened (even with dodge).
@@NoPunIncluded @No Pun Included Fair enough. I guess presenting it as the common occurrence when it's probably a rare occurrence would be my nitpick. I could see Dodge failing, but in over 20 games with four players each time I've never had that experience. So my sample size isnt insignificant when I claim it's probably not a common occurrence.
I do agree some of the rule misinterpretations would make the game more exciting. Dumping a ton of cards on the table to do a giant lavish attack is pretty exciting. But also game breaking.
But that part relating to attacks wasn't really critique, we were just relaying some game elements. Overall, we flubbed a few things, yes, but nothing that ultimately makes me rethink our experience in any meaningful way.
@@NoPunIncluded haha, Fair enough. The game certainly has its flaws And when all is said and done I have to admit it feels like the creators missed the mark. With any luck the expansions will meaningfully flesh out the game.
Having played Dark Souls the board game, I did not expect good things from this review. Hearing the words semi-cooperative added to the feeling that the game won't be good. Yea...
At this point, every time I see a kickstarter project full of miniatures, I immediately expect that it's going to be an underdeveloped mess. On top of that, these games end up flooding the market at the expense of the entire industry.
Unfortunately it looks like you're right.
Exactly. They eat up all the press, people blow hundreds of dollars they could have spent on smaller publishers who care about making good games, and they're so "successful" at getting funded that everyone else rushes in to do the same thing, only exacerbating the problem.
@@AdamJorgensen good point.
@@AdamJorgensen I'm speaking more in general terms. At the moment, the number of games that come out is growing exponentially and several publishers are lamenting how the trend is hurting them. Because the market is so crowded, games have a very short lifespan and rarely get a second print run. The problem is then exacerbated by the current influx of KS games... which I personally find particularly negative, especially since so many of them seem to be only 80% complete from a design point of view. That's why I say that these KS projects hurt the industry: they flood an already crowded market and most of them aren't polished as they could/should be.
Why is this? developing and printing miniatures is a big expense and tons of work; you'd think that when going to that much work, designing an actual fun game to play with them would be the easier part.
I know you're just joking but
"the lower arts" kinda hurt a little
Yeah I almost stopped playback at that one... It was a cheap shot.
@@mikolajwitkowski8093 Leave it to a board games comment section of all things to find such pretentious people.
@@BOAiak my experience is that board game aficionados are tge most pretentious, arrogant and elitist people around. Yoi have amazing computer games that give vastly deep experiences.
I feel like the main box's easy enemies are due to Steamforged wanting to charge £40 for each monster expansion.
Absolutely terrible game, you only need to look at the SFG's track record to know it's going to be bad. They cannot make games and try to jump on the miniature train and hype of the IP to gain sales. They start numerous other Kickstarter campaigns to pay for the promises made on the ones before.
Unfortunately I learnt my lesson with Dark Souls, a game that needs so many house rules to make it bearable, thankfully the amazing community on BGG have put together their own rule set, just need to some time and take a deep breath before trying again.
Thank you for the entertaining review as always and keep up the great work.
Yeah. I had high hopes for Dark Souls myself. I've got such a huge backlog of games though that I haven't even played it but looked at a lot of reviews. This does not make me happy that SFG got the rights to make a Monster Hunter board game.
When you hear Elaine say “you know what’s even more fun?!”
If NPI says a game is bad, I don’t touch it with a 6 foot pole
Eh, they didn't like Tainted Grail either and that game was generally loved by most people who played it. They're still stating an opinion, not an objective truth.
After seeing more of these kickstarter games riddled with miniatures I see how lucky I am, as I bought a couple of these style of games on a whim because "minis good, dice good' and those were Death May Die and LOTR JiME, which are both fucking awesome
@@pcuimac Yeah NPI did so as well I believe. But I found that it ticked all my boxes anyways
I enjoyed painting the minis for Dark Souls greatly. I’m a huge fan of the IP so getting to see actual representations of things I like was cool. The game itself sucks balls though. I’ve played it once and probably will never play it again. I’m keeping it for the miniatures though. Could be used for a rpg campaign or something
Thanks for confirming this is another Steamforged turd based on a promising IP. Same cash grab as Dark Souls. The dark side of Kickstarter.
These guys did Guild Ball! I don't get how they've ended up like this :(
Sigh I hoped SFG might break their streak but sadly sounds like that's not the case. Shame because Horizon Zero Dawn deserves much better.
@@TheErnieforss Keep in mind SFG had the brilliant idea to make an app so you could make your own cards in Bardsung and I thought "Hey, that's pretty clever." Then I realized they did this so you could fix the game that they know/will know is awful, untested and ultimately rubbish :( Spoiler alert, I am not backing Bardsung (self high five!)
Hmm how about, if you just throw in more monsters? Ive played it solo, and found it way to easy (just one hero) Next time, im gonna play it with the 3-4 player settings (*2 monsters) Any1 tried to just double up the Machines (and jeg play it as a coop game)?
BTW the miniatures are all 28 mm - imo all to small and a shame. The Heroes looks good, and are of an better quality than the machines. They really need to ramp up the machines to 32-35 mm and cast them in the same plastic as the Heroes...
1:49 - Ahhh... SPIRE: The City Must Fall!!!
Awesome RPG one of my favs! It needs more love and buzz, althou I gather it's not for everyone, but the world is amazing and the mechanics are just genius.
The ending was the most devastating burn I've seen in the history of board game reviewer youtube crossover jokes.
Very much in favour of the children's TV presenter aesthetic you've both got here.
My 3yo daughter enjoyed watching with this me. Can confirm
Man this is so sad. The publisher is also going to bring Monster Hunter boardgame to kickstarter in the first half of 2021, and because I love those games I am (was) quite hyped. I hope they take in all the feedback & reviews and learn from it.
In any case this video was a lot of fun to watch! Thank you guys :D
They have several playthrough videos of MHW:TBG now. It seems pretty smooth. I'm currently doing research on their previous games to figure out if mechanics and concepts have been improved since previous games.
Very upsetting that SFG is making a Monster Hunter board game, with how everything went for HZD and Dark Souls.... :(
Yet lots of people will throw there money at it. Steamforged have given yet more proof with HZD that they do not not know how to make boardgames fun, there operation is to get the big IPs and let that make the money.
@@donbooger I'm following Bardsung atm which is interesting in that it's their own IP. Certainly seems to be going well as a campaign and doesn't have a big name to hang itself on
Primal The Awakening will be more monster hunter than the Monster Hunter board game. I dont have high hopes for the actual Monster Hunter board game.
@@rdot8419 Im intrigued by primal, but really going to need some good gameplay videos before I back it. The pie board just doesnt capture my excitement as much, and at first glance the card system seems like tainted grail, and I wasnt that big a fan of that style of conflict resolution, got very samey after a while.
As of right now the closest you're going to get to Monster Hunter in a board game is Kingdom Death. It's expensive and merciless, but deeply thematic and fun.
This review has saved me a lot of money. Thank you
SOoooooo glad, I cancelled on last day, was all in, but after getting a question about gameplay answered in a shrug type of reply, my confidance dropped, and I was lucky to cancel the KS in time.
Plus side, You can eat HZ and at least you get some value from it.
The distributor gave you guys a copy... hahaha they must hate SFG
I actually genuinely like this game quite a bit. It has issues, but it's still really fun. That said, the "semi-coop" really isn't a thing. It is competitive. Saying otherwise ignores the mechanisms and goal of the game. Playing full co-op is alright, but it requires some home-brew to make it even a bit challenging. The developer has said that the expansions coming next year will provide much higher difficulty, but it should have been an option in the base game.
“Lower art”?
Cringe
Loved it. Please do a review of Bardsung :-) It really looks like a very bland game, but everyone's been so kind to it in their "Kickstarter previews".
Yeah I really, really can't understand what all the hype is about for that one
@@Mantuga Haha me neither! But I will get it, just for the miniatures, and hope its a solid game...
They can't do a review of a product that hasn't been released. Or are you asking them to do that review next year?
@@Hieronymus-Pseudonymous I'm asking for a review as soon as they can get a copy (please, Efka?). Bardsung looked to have some fascinating ideas (like Horizon), such as the procedurally generated dungeons and the big-name writers on board. NPI's reviews are both hilarious and detailed enough that I can get a really good feel for the game, and I'd love to see them cover it.
You should give Rising Sun another play. My group loves that game. It's actually quite easy to learn and play, but hard to master. My favorite part about the game is how many avenues there are for winning. It's not just all combat all the time. Anyway, good review, although a little on the long side for me.
I just love the look of this game, and I wanted the game badly! But I reminded myself that it could be that the box is nice with no other redeeming features... Your review helped me to feel that I did the right choice.
What's this you say? You mean a KICKSTARTER game with PRETTY MINIS based on a VIDEO GAME was a total letdown???
I REFUSE TO BELIEVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(this is sarcasm, in case you can't tell, because I've found that unless I point out my sarcasm, the internet generally doesn't understand that I'm being sarcastic. "You can't sense sarcasm in text" they say, well I wholeheartedly disagree, yet I'm still having to point out my sarcasm regularly otherwise people think I'm really being serious).
But seriously, down with Kickstarter board games. I'm 100% done with them. They're never well designed, they're never proofread and playtested enough, every KS board game I've ever backed has been a disappointment for me. I'm over it.
What a shocking twist at the end!
Here I was, thinking that you didn’t like the game at all!
This was so entertaining! Well done. I wanted to go all in on this game because the game is one of my favorites and the minis were so awesome looking. But the gameplay just felt lackluster and this just proves it. Thanks for helping me know I was right not to back it. And I so feel the ending! LOL Dice Tower spent most of their review of my game Fossilis talking about it's shortcomings only to score it 7 and 8's. Which was great, but it would have been nice for them to talk more about the positives as well if they ultimately enjoyed it.
Thanks for the honest reviews. I went a bit crazy a few years ago and started backing a lot of board games on kickstarter. Lots of minis and a great IP's, how could they fail... this was yet another one I went fully in on. Ouch. I guess I'm gonna be making a lot of my own house rules to enjoy this one!
What is IPs?
So how is it the game ?
It just sounds like it needed more time to be developed? I was hoping for some forgiving kind of Kingdom Death multi monster gameplay but with a simple set up and play process maybe.
I don't understand how they didn't play it themselves and fix the floors?
Thank you for your sacrifice, guys 🙈Please can we stop supporting Kickstarters with 1) big chuncks of plastics and 2) based on video game franchises.. It always ends in dissappointment.
What other video game based board games are there?
This is why I watched a Darkest Dungeon set-up video and cancelled my pledge. Can't wait to finally get Bloodborne and realize it's a mess as well!
Board game adaptations of video games are the new movie adaptations of video games.
at least Anno 1800 is good, right?
@@henribcosta I don't know, JonGetsGames experienced some balance issues in his plays, though he did still really enjoy it.
My wife went all in on this game because she loves the video game. I haven't played the co-op variant yet. But just like I warned my wife, and the developers. It turns out semi-coop is still a blatant lie. I had a moment in a game where my wife was winning, and the smart thing would have been to let a machine kill her (therefore losing all glory points). In what world is that fun? Its for sure not in the spirit of the game. Even the missions you play as Aloy for the hunters lodge. The people you team up with WORK TOGETHER for glory over the other hunters. If you don't want a hunter to have glory, don't go fighting with them.
Also the base box is just way too little content. After 4 scenarios, the boss does just feel kinda meh. Especially since one of the previous hard scenarios we played was more challenging. There are abilities that don't make sense, and the event deck sucks.
That being said. We enjoyed the gameplay, and she is very excited to get all the expansions next year. But I'm really worried that the hundreds of dollars we spent are going to end up only giving us some cool minis. (Which were surprisingly small)
Also the end bit/joke at Dice Tower is hilarious! But unfortunately I still enjoyed the game enough that I rated it a 7/10 on BGG and I have all these issues with it. So yeah.... You got me too.
Yeah, we really, really enjoyed the gameplay. But the lack of content and the obviously 'better if played pure co-op against harder machines' is a major issue. This is not a game, it's a sampler for the full game.
Sounds like very fixable design issues tbh. In fact you could even have a bit of 'hidden role' type mechanic, or anything like that, where the game becomes equally if not more about how you strategically manage your relationships with the other players while fighting the monsters. It becomes a sort of iterated prisoner dilemma where you can go for a short term gain by betraying the other players but then suffer in the long run as your reputation naturally takes a hit. That's the kind of thing that creates depth and replayability in an otherwise simple game--ultimate example of course being Diplomacy, simultaneously the simplest possible 'dudes on a map' game and also one of the deepest and most complex and difficult to analyze games at a high level ever made because 90% of the game is about how you read and manage relationships with other humans, one of the most cognitively difficult and complex things we've evolved to do.
@@nHautamaki Haha! That would be a very complicated game. That i'd enjoy about as much X-D (Not a fan of diplomacy)
Super excited I did not back this game. I felt iffy about its game to board game translation. I'm glad to know I wasn't wrong.
Got it of KS and I must agree. So far I played it solo and the challenge dropped really fast even with one player. The tiger radar also confused me and the minis,... we complained about them already during the campaign.
20:45 I was watching this thinking... 'Hey this seems to have some of the same problems as Dark Souls' and then... oh.
Steamforged Games: "I DECLARE (this game) SEMI-COOPERATIVE"
It is absolutely legal to for more than one enemy to be in the same space at the same time. it's only the "huge machines" (Sawtooth and Shellwalker in base game) that can't share a space with another huge machine.
The issue with being attacked four times in a row shouldn't be a fatal one. Remember you must "dodge" (move one space) after every enemy attack. This combined with the fact that machines target the most recently activated hunter makes it very easy move to a position where you won't be attacked.
You are right that, it needs to make up its mind if it's co-op or competitive. There are a lot of mechanics that would work well for co-op, but co-op mode is trash. The rule book is also trash. I have no idea what you were talking about with this one. Slogging through it, I found myself having to flip back an forth referencing aspects of the same mechanic in totally different parts of the manual, or getting in depth descriptions of cards that I don't know how to play yet. (I don't blame you for missing a couple rules. I'd have missed much more if it weren't for the many BGG threads on the subject.)
It may be the HZD fan-boy in me, but overall I enjoy the board game. Leveling up your gear, building a deck, and racing your opponent to kill the most machines I think is fun. The board game is nowhere near the caliber of the video game, and far from the best board game I've played, but far from the worst as well.
Damn, I'm a board gamer and loved Horizon the video game so backed this. Being positive, I really hope the expansions balance this out to the point coop is exciting.
That mid-review smirk by Elaine during the setup was pure gold.
Thanks, you two, for taking the time to film a negative review. I still find them useful and entertaining.
From everything I've seen, they ONLY film negative reviews which is fine, we need haters in this hype industry lol
Thanks for the review. This is easily a game I could have been completely sold on reading rules and checking out. I just hate when I go in to that mode and get that hype game and it falls flat.
Thumbs up.
Thank you for the review! I backed the Kickstarter for minis to paint, with the idea that even if the game is bad I could use them for my own HZD homebrew. I've loved working with the minis so far. I'm sad to see the game didn't deliver what the designers intended. Hopefully the cooperative campaign they're delivering later will be better.
But yeah, any designers who are trying to do "semi-coop" need to really playtest that to make sure they're not just making a broken competitive game. I'm not convinced that happened here.
@@twentysides - but really, the only thing making this ‘semi’ co-op is the possibility of the whole scenario failing if there are too many faints...house rule this out and just play full competitive, or just play full co-op and eliminate the competitive angle altogether.
I feel the difficulty of balancing your actions to benefit you while keeping the other hunters distracted with the machines and taking advantage of any opportunities that arise but not SO MUCH that the other hunters die....leads to some fun strategy. My kids and my game group enjoy it and that’s enough for me.
I mainly got it for the minatures. Hopefully the community will come up house rules to make it better. Also, the expansions might give us some interesting battles. Good review! Great job with the spoon!
Yeah...I agree it’s a 7-7.5 rating on this game, assuming the 7/10 at the end was legit and not just part of the Dice Tower schtick. It needs more baddies to fight, but the core mechanics with 4players is actually a lot of fun. It might seem unbalanced on the Osseram side with the fire bits, but I’m pretty sure the extra glory is only applicable to a machine that’s not already on fire and 2, you can’t do the same action twice, so I’m not sure how they’re doing double attacks with fire damage in the first place with that Hunter. Not to mention you can’t toss a trap (Osseram’s base range weapon) into a space with a machine anyway...you have to place the trap in another space and then lure the machine into it, or hope it pops in there for some other reason, which takes strategy and timing to pull off. So...how they’re pulling off a double attack on multiple monsters with double fire and gaining that much glory, is a remote oilier of something that’s possible and/or beyond me. If you did all the setup to make that happen, take your glory...you earned it!
Thanks for the insightful review. Great as always and glad now that I didn't back it.
Also makes it easier to not back Bardsung because I still haven't seen a great boardgame from SFG.
I also think you forgot to link your patreon page in the Description (really glad to see you guys have already a great number of patreons! You deserve it).
Good catch! Thank you very much.
Why would I ever play a board game based on such an excellent video game? One requires 25-50 pages of reading, the other requires me to insert a disc. This is what drives me nuts when board gamers rag on video games. They're both excellent mediums, but sometimes I just don't feel like doing the leg work to learn the rules of a board game and I just want to throw in a disc and play immediately. It's why I have a whole bunch of board games I haven't played yet.
What's a disc?
Hey Elaine, I don’t think the Oseram guy works that way. The card says “when an attack... applies 🔥 to one or more enemies...” It doesn’t give you 3 glory for one attack dealing fire to 3 people, just 1.
Fireforged does work the way you’re saying, though, so 1 glory per round still sounds pretty unfair.
"Sword & Sorcery" is absolutely great if you can live with the playtime and some GUI fiddliness. Although I must mention that I find "Rising Sun" to be really interesting.
This is kinda what I expected from the game. I though the monsters looked amazing, but minis aren't enough to justify this purchase.
omg that was so funny! TY guys, amazing review!
Thank you for this review. The vidoe game was one of the greatest games I've ever played. I so wanted to walk out of the game store when I saw this massive box. Not that I have a ton of cash on hand but so wouldn't have cared about dropping 100 at that moment. Later yes but the want of good game from something I loved was strong. After watching this so glad I didn't waste all that cash.
One of my coworkers(who loves to pledge KS games only to sell them after he's disappointed) mentioned this game a few months back with such hype, hoping that I'll reinforce his enthusiasm, since I am a huge huge fan of the PS4 game. I had the feeling that this is going to be another miniature cashgrab, just because how difficult it is to translate an excellent game mechanic(stalking and hunting the machines in-game with traps and arrows) to a tabletop environment, where you lose all dynamic aspects of that combat. In order for this to be successful, they would have needed to recreate the same tension with dice and card interactions, which very difficult to do in a boardgame setting. Shame to see the IP squandered like this, but hey, Forbidden West is out June 2021.
One thing to consider is that Efka and Elaine probably played this at 2. Our group played it at 4 and even though it was long, we had a considerably more fun time than what the review makes it out to be. There have been numerous reports on bgg that this is where the semi-coop cut-throat nature of the game truly comes out and that the 2p experience is really lack-lustre. I suspect it was never balanced or really play-tested at lower player counts. Having said that the flaws pointed out are valid also - there are indeed potential balancing issues, the variety of monsters and AI still needs work , and the rulebook is annoyingly verbose.
I would say that Horizons, the video game, strongest feature is its storyline. It’s a fascinating, and ultimately, deeply dramatic one. Not sure how much I would care about the universe without that story.
Brutal honesty. love it!
I didn’t realize this was a Steam Forged Games game, but upon hearing that it is, it all makes sense. I haven’t been too impressed with SFG's ability to balance game mechanics and produce compelling gameplay. Sure, I did buy into the Dark Souls board game, and I do enjoy the game, for the most part. However, that has been only after a significant effort to rewrite rules and some basic mechanisms in the game to reduce a lot of the tedium and rebalance some of the more nefarious aspect of the game; admittedly this effort was comprised of me going through the BGG forums and compiling together various variants of rules posed by the community, and I eventually landed upon the grindless-variant thread by DSSirus, for which I posted a PDF compilation of those rules with some minor alterations and additions of my own based on other discussion threads. But, the fundamental problem is that the game has required a massive community effort to FIX the game and actually make it fun and enjoyable, because the original rules just did not do it.
I think one of the things SFG doesn’t seem to realize is that you shouldn’t be trying to replicate, exactly, the flow and mechanics of a video game into a board game. The things that work in a video game work well in that medium because of the inherent nature of the medium, the ability to save state, the ability of the world and setting to operate independent of the player (as opposed to players having to manipulate every part and piece), and the ability to have unambiguous enforcement of *every* rule even though the player's may not be familiar with or knowing of all the rules (whereas, in a board game, players must not only know and understand all the rules, but they must also correctly interpret the consequences of those rules else the game could become unbalanced or unfair). Instead of trying to make a literal translation of a video game into a board game, more what you want to do is only capture the spirit, essence, or flavoring of the video game while still conforming to the constraints imposed by the board game medium.
While I love the HZD video game, myself, it sounds like the board game version is another game that will require some effort from the community to fix its broken parts, particularly the character balance issues and creating compelling, balanced interactions for competitive and cooperate gameplay that don’t devolve to trivial strategies.
Finally 4k quality, Elaine's colorful sweater makes better use of my TV than 90% of all TV shows 👍👍 great video as always, game looks cool (not as cool as the video game though)
I would really love you guys to use patreon money and buy Kingdom death monster core box during black Friday. It sounds like every thing promising here would feel like success playing KDM
Being a board game based on a video game, I was on the fence, given I love the video game this is based on. Missed the Kickstarter,but the game was available,now currently sold out. So looked over the game. Already I was disappointed, why? No Aloy mini in the base game. The only way to get her is in a $50 expansion,that is sold out,and looks like it will not be reprinted. And given your review, I will skip the board game. Thanks,no I mean it, Thanks.
Yeah, Steamforged has to stop ruin IP`s, that could have potential in the right hands. Sad, because no one else will ever touch DS, RE2, Zero Dawn etc... and not enough, soo cool, they re doing the Monster Hunter BG as well.... Thank you guys
So far, so SFG. Dark Souls was awful yet I was stupid enough to still back Resident Evil (which is fine...not great, but not actively awful either). Since then I've finally learned my lesson.
Ha, I was thinking right up until the mid-review turnaround(TM) that you seemed to be rather enthusiastic about this game but nothing you'd said up to that point made the game look particularly compelling. I'm really not sure why you're hopes were particularly high going into it to begin with, especially given your reaction to other minis games.
And the same people are doing the Bloodborne board game.... sigh.
At least I got in on the Primal kickstarter which will hopefully fill the niche. And it actually has positive reviews/buzz on its prototype builds
The rules on what constitutes "applying blaze with an attack" are downright not there
Made playing what was, for me, the coolest character in to an argument starter
Edit: Also its "crazy ability" does state that you only get 1 point for lighting one or more enemies on fire
So lighting 3 enemies w one ability is 1 point. The problem is figuring out if your melee attack and the ability card count as 2 applications or not
Oh the classic mid-review turnaround, it never gets old
I was sceptical about backing this when it was live in Kickstarter and thought it would be better to have more reviews when it would hit retail.
I was not convinced from the gameplay they presented and I am now glad I didn’t.
Pity as HZD is my favourite game of all times.
Other than that, Awesome review! Really funny. Had a blast watching it.
After playing HZD the video game, and loving it, I have little interest in a board game version of it. The video game set the bar incredibly high and I just didn't see a board game living up to that level.
Just bought this because it was going cheap and for the miniatures. Sorry Ive not looked but do the expansions make the game better at all? Ill probably still buy them for the figure too.
Kind of disappointed the strongest machine isn't the Thunderjaw or stormbird
Had to search this on RUclips because youtube ad was advertising a horizon zero dawn board game
little to late but
"gain 1 glory point whenever an attack or trap from this hunter applies to one or more enemies"
you gain just 1
if you blaze 1 or 9 enemies in a sigle attack not 9 :P
Just like dark souls, great looking game, all looks amazing but what a drag, nothing really thrilling boss fights are the best and they get bored quickly
Are you going to review Etherfields? I really liked it and hoped you would compare it to Tainted grail which I have not played
Seeing reviews of their games has convinced me that all the bright, passionate people at SFG are long gone and the company is coasting on the capital from licensed kickstarter campaigns.
Backed HZD and added on a couple of the expansions. I agree the core game really does feel like it's missing a big boss ending. You play these very short encounters to get you levelled up and ready, but as they say in the review the last encounter isn't really much different. I'm hoping with the Thunderjaw expansion it'll be a much better experience. Only played it solo so far, which I thought worked well enough. Was probably too easy but I enjoyed it at least....
I played solo and it was ‘ok’. I’ve since played 3p and 4p campaigns and they’re much more fun with a fair amount of strategic depth for me and my game group. I give this a solid 7-7.5 rating...a good game, but needs more for the money in the core box. I’m hoping the rest of the all-in pledge solves that next year and I have a feeling that when more big bads are delivered, this is going to hit my table even more than it does now.
I disagree with NPI...this is a good game, delivers on its premise, albeit I do feel there’s a bit missing and there’s not enough in the core box to keep me occupied until the rest of the all in content arrives. Most importantly, where H:ZD is my #1 video game of all time, this delivers a very similar feel on the table top. It’s not my #1 tabletop game, but it is a good amount of fun. Not to mention...the minis are pretty decent for SFG and they look amazing painted...CANNOT WAIT FOR THE THUNDERJAW.
I find that the difficulty of the semi-co-op lies in trying to keep the other hunters busy/distracted enough while you snag glory points, but not so terribly busy/distracted that you can’t complete the scenarios and get the much needed resources so you can defeat the big bad. If you can’t handle that/don’t play that way, then just play in full co-op mode for the storyline and the fun.
I feel like every NPI review I’ve watched is negative and craps on the game at hand, which has led me to realize we just don’t have the same tastes and that’s ok. Rising Sun, Tainted Grail and Cloudspire...all in my collection and Rising Sun is my #1 game. If this is a 7/10 for them, I’d hate to see what a review on a 5 or a 6 would look like. It’s ok for a game to just be ‘ok’. I really like this IP, so I decided to watch this particular review, fully expecting the negativity, to see if they’d point out anything I happened to agree with....but, once again, the answer is ‘not really’. It’s still a fun game and I’ll continue enjoying it with my kids and my gaming group.
Dark souls board gsme had this same enemy activation mechanic... it made the game awful. Very sad to see it here. Poor balance
And now I find out it was made by the same people.... ugh. Sad I wasted my money. The minis are at least nice I guess.
I am currently tinkering with a card-based design where it is both the player's 'health' and 'fatigue' in much the same way of this design... Damnit!
It's not like this game was the first to use this mechanic and it doesn't mean that you can't do it :)
@@whoisbatman I know, just want to stay interesting and innovative!
When I saw it at kickstarter I knew at first sight that it would be horrible. Semi coop? Naah.
Trying to read between the lines here...So you liked the game?
Only one boss and its a big kitty? Oof. Hope someone didnt expect Thunderjaws without paying extra. Hah.
At the very end of this video I felt the need to remind you "Board games are not food."
That dig on the Dice Tower, LOL
Hello,
I am looking for a new game - thank you for this review. Without it I would maybe buy this game :D
But still I have an idea - when it is semi-cooperative game, is it possible to play on teams? 2vs2?
In that case 2 players could cooperate and attack together. Since the game support competing between each other, we can still compete in teams.
Of course we would have to set the higher stats of enemies.
Would the game work more in this settup? Is there anything from expansions, which would help this game?
Thank you for sharing ideas :)
I would not recommend this game under any circumstance. Hope that clears things up.
What is this amazing chipmunk meme? I must spread it around the internet!
Not too surprising it's a dog turd. Dark Souls: The Board Game is also a hot, steaming (forged) turd. Not sure how they got the rights to develop another video game adaptation.
The answer is always money, isn’t it? Dark Souls banked nearly $5.5 M on Kickstarter, and this got almost $2 M despite that mess.
Question: if you ever start eating board games, will you review how they taste?
This one was amazing. The review that is; the game looks not amazing.
We have just gotten confirmation that Tom has watched this review...
Ah well, at least I got some interesting Starfinder minis out of it
Sounds like it was made by someone who plays video games and not board games...
Ok the doggy needs to be added in all reviews now cause it is addorable.
A nail polish factory next to a volcano?....... 🤔..........
............ WHAT????? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Crabs be dancing to a rave party
Great review. Very enjoyable to watch. I don’t agree with your final assessment. But totally respect your opinions and see where you are coming from. I just personally felt the excitement I felt from the rule book like you translated directly to the game as you do exactly what it says? Although I 100% agree on the issues around semi coop.
Finally, an actual review!
What a wonderful way to close the review! I laughed so hard. This review is: excellent!!
Are they taking a shot at the dice tower?
@@number3729 yeah...a silly one, IMO. Cheap laughs are just that...cheap. Mildly redeemed by the text overlay during the outro due to the self admitted bad form. Lol.