@@dd-nt9nl There would definitely be scary stories about kids who went there and came back and got sick, or even their skin fell off. The people who didn't believe it would find out the hard way, they might get cancer or something later in life (if they didn't dig or drill there) so it might not be immediately obvious. But if there were scary stories, just like there are about the forests and rivers at night, it would help a little.
Future archeologist: "Ah yes giant triangles of death much like the great pyramids of Giza from 20 000 years ago they are said to contain a curse that will befall on whomever disturbs the peace of what is burried there. I must dig this up! It will prove my theory that cultures evolve cyclically! Oh boy, that big grant is already mine!"
My biggest concern is that this doesn't address our constant tendency to disregard the humanity of the past. Sure, the civilisation of the future might very well understand that we wanted them to know a place is dangerous, but would they care? Would they take it seriously? Or would they simply write us off as primitive and superstitious? How many tombs have we plundered because we entirely ignored the warnings?
Why should we even care to that degree? Make sure it's as inaccesible as possible and if they want f around and find out let them. Humanity didn't advance nor did it learn from mistake if those mistakes were made and often times people and societies need to re learn a lesson.
I think a big reason why archeologists consistently ignore those warnings is that they're consistently wrong: you'd be much less likely to plunder a place that has a bunch of non-precious metals and also kills you, after the first time someone does it and finds out what happens.
More than likely those “curses” and such were made at the time in a similar way to how we want to make it for nuclear waste. As far as their research allowed, they knew it was dangerous to SOMEONE and wanted to prevent that somehow
this is topic is so fascinating to me also it bother me no one right at the start at the project thought "wait a minute, remember the pyramids? that aint gonna work. the more we warn them, the more they gonna look for info and treasure. we're kinda stupid as a species" thanks for making this one fam
Isn't an important part of hostile architecture precisely being assimetrical and non functional? I think that wouldn't apply to the pyramids at least for the assimetrical aspect
All of these are just gonna make people even more curious about going there lol. Human curiosity will always prevail over sense of danger. It feels like most of these people were trying to make a cool scifi setting than actually taking the topic seriously ngl.
I think it's an interesting thought experiment, asking how you would communicate to someone with absolutely zero awareness of the present modern world, as though all forms of tangible history ended, the best ways to communicate might just be to use symbols of the natural world, like orbitals of uranium or fissile materials, as in the style of the Voyager disk.
That's up for debate actually. Take a scenario in where civilization significantly regresses due to some arbitrary doomsday level scenario. Would our surviving descendants inhibit curious or wary behavior, as any surviving colonies would theoretically be more wary of things if knowledge of past events were communicated up to some degree?
Safety rules are written in blood, the site should cause degrees of harm up to lethal which would make any culture coming across it to actively guard people from entering it and keep warnings updated
Hate that this comment is so ignored. Only ppl who have had to learn the consequences of ignoring safety warnings, can truly understand how "safety rules are written in blood".
There's a problem if people think that the site has something worth protecting so badly it would have dangerous or lethal measures to keep it safe. Then it might cause some to try and go further despite the risks in hopes of finding some imaginary reward.
a bit of a wild idea but what if you bury it in an unmarked location but then put lavish structures and enticing architecture in another area as a red herring to further draw people away from the burial sites
Yeah, the nuclear priesthood thing will backfire catastrophically. Seriously, the entire plot of Gurren Lagann is about how this exact idea wouldn't work.
It's almost like this whole field of study is retarded and most likely a scheme to siphon off some revenue so the department's budget isn't cut next year
My favorite, as in most effective, I believe would be to just bury it and don’t put anything around it. Cover in concrete, bury it deep, then forget about it. Theres so many things just laying in the ground that we haven’t found, the earth is huge compared to people. Put a message on the concrete sarcophagus itself so in the eventuality people find it they can know what it is.
The risk of that, though, is the possibility for a later society beginning to drill or something and stumbling upon the waste without forewarning. Even if you want to argue that they would have no reason to drill in an area without resources, plenty of oil fields were once barren lands with seemingly little to offer, we can't assume the ecology of an area will be perfectly the same 10 000 years from now, especially considering climate change. Anyways I think a lot of the concern over how these structures trigger curiosity is a bit over blown given that the risk is digging or drilling, not mere presence in the structure, so the point is that exploration of the above ground area is safe but it deters any additional significant investment into actually disturbing or uncovering the waste. So even the examples of kids daring themsleves to go through the field of spikes wouldn't actually make them more likely to just you know, acquire the machinery to excavate however many kilometers of rock lol
@@wattthefaqameye1146 They rediscover nuclear physics and are digging a repository. They plan out the best location and dig. Oops, someone else has already dug there.
Yup. Bury it thousands of metres below the ocean floor in a secure capsule, in the middle of the Pacific ocean. Nothing on the surface needed. Leave various messages and pictograms within the capsule in case highly advanced humans find it, in which case they would be more likely to be aware of radiation. Not sure the language barrier would get through to them? Humans know the human body. Show a human body covered in sores and bleeding and it'll certainly communicate something in the right direction
@@wattthefaqameye1146 it's not overblown at all. We literally have entire academic disciplines today that would go absolutely nuts over an ancient field of manmade spikes, such as archeology and anthropology. There are most likely things buried in this earth made by man from several millennia ago, but we will never find them because they are too deep in the ground and too inconspicuous. Once we acknowledge this possibility, we can make sure that this nuclear waste becomes part of that lost ancient history for future humans.
We’re lucky because thirty - forty years later we now know nuclear waste still has 97% usable energy left. So we would have warned future generations away from a perfect super rich fuel source!
you should patent this idea to use spent nuclear fuel as a fuel source for future generations. looking forward to hearing about all the awards you get. your h-index will definitely pop.
As much as I love the raycats, my biggest issue with them is that there's no guarantee future people won't fear the cat itself, and hunt them down to extinction under the belief they're somehow haunted or supernatural.
No matter what time in human history we're in, if raycats were an existing "fearsome" mythological beast, there will ALWAYS be a subsect of humanity that absolutely adores them. Satan himself was quite literally designed to be anti-human, in order to scare any and all human beings away from the mere concept of this horrific figure, yet we still have unironic satanists, satanic cults and people who just think Satan is really cool. We can't herd humans all into a singular perspective on something, it's never worked before and it won't in the future
God that would be so damn effective, *rREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE* Oh fuck we got a leak "Attention, A Radiation Leak has been Detected, Reactor Seal Protocols are to be activated Immediately, All Personnel Vacate Immediately)
For the priesthood thing I would recommend you look into the Ark of the Covenant. There is a church in Ethiopia that claims to possess the original. When the ark was stolen the bible talks of those viewing it getting tumors. The Ethiopian Ark is guarded by priests who sit in the room with the Ark and serve until they go completely blind. Every single priest that sits in the room with the Ark eventually goes completely blind. This could work. The myth of the ark is that god lives inside but seeing him will kill you.
The church in Ethiopia is pretty much universally agreed to be fake, and the Ark does not contain God. The Ark just has a golden vial of manna, Aaron's staff, and the tablets given to Moses. The idea of a nuclear priesthood is inherently faulty. It ignores the fact that humans tend to be rebellious, going against those in power.
Maybe make a door with complicated instructions written on the door. If you can translate the dead language enough to open the door you can read the reasons why it's closed
No matter how scary and dangerous you make it appear to be, some motherfucker is gonna say “I bet I can use it to kill my enemy”. See “The Ring of Power” or “The Ark of The Covenant”.
“Yeah but like sorry, we can’t share this song with you that’s made specifically to spread as much as possible to spread future awareness of nuclear catastrophe because it’s copy righted” Man copyright is so fucking stupid on so many levels lol
11:09 wanted to get the nuclear waste warning "not only will this kill you, it will hurt the whole time you're dying" tattooed or incorporated into a tat and my friend told me it was a perfect tramp stamp
I remember the feeling invoked when I saw the Spike Field for the first time in 2018 in Fallout 76 when I stumbled upon it’s Federal Disposal Field HZ-21 area. I became obsessed with learning what it was as most things in Fallout games, especially in Bethesda’s releases are very accurate recreations of real world areas. That rabbit hole was so fun. Aside from the Sandia Report, which I had previously read to learn more - There is so little organized information about these Hostile Architecture ideas, especially the Spike Field concept, that seeing this video a little over 6 years later was the fastest I’ve ever clicked. I was happy to learn a lot of new things too! Thank you! Subbed.
Worst thing about the black hole especially if it's out in a desert is sandstorms or just weather in general, after 100 years alone 98% of the black surface is going to be covered by sand dirt/mud. You would have to place it somewhere where it could be safe from the weathering. Or you could make it a little tiny slope and make a fountain where water can clean it off every couple of hours
i think the skull and bones might be the closest thing we can get to an universal warning sign, sure, certain cultures feel more positive about the image of a skeleton like mexico, but it still represents death, even there.
Good video, got a sub from me. I've always found fields where "hard and social sciences" overlap. Where there is a logical problem of don't go here, but because we're humans, we have to prepare for curiosity.
it seems like an impossible problem. 10,000 years is a timespan we simply cannot comprehend. all proposals would inevitably succumb to curiosity, vandalism, or simply erosion. especially telling people that further information will be found further towards the actual danger seems counter productive
Yeah its pretty neat, even if you go with leaving no structures and putting it up to chance that nobody tries to dig or pump water from the site, you would have to scrub all existing information relating to WIPP’s purpose and existence. Maybe they should look into methods to accelerate information decay!
there is a series of books by Anne McCaffrey about planet Pern which at first reads as your almost typical fantasy novel. i will try not to spoil anything for those who were about to read it, but humans there have a thing where they have to constantly send somehow the knowledge of a global catastrophy (of their world) and how to effectively battle it or prevent - to future generations, and they did it in a form of ballads that are composed by current culture and transfered on available medium (mostly skins and tapestry) via folks that are called harpers (they are equivalent of historians, philosophers, art people etc.) and they too had this problem of "how to explain this dire thing to people that will not be like us in several centuries come" luckily they succeeded and now after this iceberg video i will describe the book series as a "nuclear semiotics success story" lmao awesome vid dude!
@@EvdogMusic the rms olympic was scrapped and sold and did not sink so at the top i guess hmhs brittanic is at the top of the abyss as it only suck a couple 100 meters compared to the titanics several thousand meters
The problem with just burying it in the desert and ignoring it is that it won’t stay a desert forever. It will one day become habitable and it’s hard to tell if the radiation would be safe by then.
Fun fact: cats, the normal ones we keep around today, really hate certain specific places; nobody knows why. But cats are just glitchy, right? It's not a warning or something.
And like... all of these are rendered to nothing more than interesting thought exercises in existentialism when you do any amount of research into current day nuclear technology. What was considered waste back in the day can be reused over again. So, a lot of ink spilled over an issue that engineers were developing past anyways. And there's the inherent boogeyman-ification of nuclear energy, which is the most primitive thing we could display to our future descendants.
The cult of Hollywood, started with China syndrome and 3 mile. Now the cult has the followers following the Kardashians and having sex changes. Can't fix dumb.
it's a good thing that there is so much fear created around it, the current progress in anything doesn't mean a thing when it's still one of the most potentially deadly things we deal with
Ask any archaeologist, or any dumb, bored teen. Put a foreboding, "Do not enter" sign at an ominously abandoned building or location, and people, both individuals and groups, are going to what to know "what's in there?"
Consider this: having all of these at all means at least one of these ideas may actually stick, so even if some are ridiculous or some feel like they'll die over time it only matters if one survives, likely being the concrete spike fields but I digress
I thought the art of the iceburg was a forgotten one. Turns out you must've decoded the remaining iceberg semiotics, because this is one good iceberg video.
Nevertheless, a warning sign that a material with a potential to completely annihilate people will always be not only ignored but actually pursued by perverse individuals.
An ancient monolith left by an extinct civilization, in a language people don't understand, talking about harm and death for those who desecrate such site... Where have I seen this before?
A good start would be recycling the nuclear waste to extract the useful stuff out. Then you would only need to store the actual waste materials for a few hundred to a few thousand years. Also constantly update the warnings.❤
I don't think any of the warnings should be in languages, rather they should be in universal symbols, like hieroglyphs essentially. Like imagine this: "Dozens of people running away in agony whilst their flesh melts off from a glowing green orb." > "The glowing green orb is shown under the structure." In this way, language isn't even needed at all to emphasize that it is a threat, it literally shows it. Languages are temporary, crude realistic symbology is eternal.
But then, how would someone know to interpret the figures as running away from the orb? How would we ensure someone knows to interpret the figures as dying because of the orb? The depiction might be viewed as a relief of an ancient myth, and they might not read the depiction as a warning, but as a treasure map.
I disagree. Even with just pictograms, what's stopping "people running from a green orb with their skin coming off" from being interpreted as "green orb of life creating humanity, which dies when far from its awesomeness". And thus encouraging looters looking for ancient religious artifacts. A fun aside for hieroglyphs, they have been historically notorious for being misinterpreted. Only ~200 years after the last inscription, you have the writings of people like Horapollo totally butchering not only the meaning but also the writing system itself. Part of the reason hieroglyphs were associated with "mystical writing" was precisely because they show images of real things, which humans instinctively want to give meaning to. Instead of, you know, treating it like a writing system.
@@raxusveritas I'm sorry but how and why would someone interpret the maimed bodies of people running away from an accursed artifact as a thing that is treasure? That's like saying acid warning signs can be misinterpreted to be an invisibility potion.
The issue with most of these is that they would never work if whatever future creatures are anything like us. We have an inherit drive to explore and understand things even if it's at the risk of our lives. The best deterrent might actually be to just not hide it and let a few die every now and then to scare away the rest.
Ive been working on a post-nuclear story since 2018ish, at the very heart of it is nuclear semiotics and a "nuclear church"- strange, foreboding monuments in shunned places and masked monks.
Radioactive waste is not as dangerous as you think... If you read the wikipedia article you can see it is like throwing trash into a bin (nuclear) VS throwing trash to the ground (coal)
My proposition to the problem would be a basic labyrinth where we would coerce animal species, particularly dangerous predators, to stay in for long periods of time. With the effects of radiation as we know it from the Chernobyl exclusion zone we learn that dogs in particular can evolve quickly to resist and even coat themselves in radiation to no ill effects. With some luck these species of dogs would use these locations as dens for however many years in order to keep out people who are insufficiently armed and prepared.
I walk around with a geiger counter after living next to a nuclear fuel plant my whole life.There was a tiny sign on the creepy barn/fallout shelter in the front that obviously did not go there.
I got three unskippable ads before I could watch this video. I will hopefully be back to properly watch it once RUclips stops being so Sweet Home Alabama.
We watched something about the Finish storage facility in school way back when I was a little kid and to this day I don't understand why they didn't write something along the lines of "this is poisonous" as the vauge fearmongering would only make people curious and/or see it as some status symbol to be the one conguring it.
If they do forget radiation, they'll find the waste, some people will die, and they'll discover the danger of radioactivity again. A skull and crossbones, or faces of anguish, seem like the simplest and most effective method to me, and I can't imagine those symbols will be completely eroded by time. I don't think preventing all future radiation poisoning is realistic or even necessarily our responsibility. Fascinating field of research though
What I’m hoping is that humanity will be an interstellar civilization in 10,000 years and will not only know exactly what nuclear waste is, but have a method of rendering it harmless instantly.
Let's use a skull and crossbones to mark this dangerous location. 40,000 years into the future; "Quickly, we can take shelter from the cultists in this ancient Imperial bunker".
Hmm. Maybe combine these ideas. Create the scary architecture, the monuments to fear. But don’t actually place anything radioactive inside them. Place the actual radioactive material in an unmarked location. But information about those locations inside the monuments. That way, when a civilization is advanced enough to find a translate the info, it can receive a warning about places that are actually dangerous.
I think the most boring solution is by far the best. Just make the site as remote and inconspicuous as possible. What are the odds that some future human are going to dig up this one random patch of barren desert in one of the most inhospitable regions of the world? Every other proposal is far more likely to attract humans to the site than repel. Unfortunately, human curiosity is a more powerful force than fear and reason combined.
i think its easy to forget that one of the main functions of scary structures that are obviously manmade is to discourage people from attempting to start settlements or grow crops on or around that land. That gives them time to survive and eventually thrive without being wiped out completely by an invisible poison. Yes there would eventually be people who want to understand and explore the structure, but any small population of people as a whole will still survive as long as they dont mistakenly go digging and drilling or plantng crops on or around it. Its not about warning one or two people, moreso avoiding mass casualties that could occur and perhaps even kill off the last humans. Unlikely but that’s the scenario of concern rather than a couple ternagers or Archaeologists getting sick.
"Gee, how could we warn people for generations to come that this place is dangerous?" "I know, let's build a HUGE statue of a lioness with a human face!" "GENIOUS! Guaranteed to creep people out!"
The TV show "American Horror Story: Apocalypse" has a Message Kiosk! It is the entrance of the school for boys (underground) where the causer of the Nuclear War lived. I love that show and I just learned that from this video, thanks.
To your point about modern humans not carrying equipment to detect radiation everywhere we go: we kind of do. Digital cameras like the ones in our phones use CMOS (Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor) image sensors, which are sensitive to ionizing radiation such as gamma rays. These show up in photos or video as a flurry of small white dots resembling static, and the more radiation there is, the more they are visible.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Imagine some guy in 10,000 years finally being initiated into the nuclear priesthood, only to find out their whole purpose is to guard evil garbage.
Same with guarding an ancient evil source that can cause death destruction by mere touching everything
"It's all spicy Garbage?"
"Always has been."
Is this a "Foundations" reference? By Asimov
The children of atom lmao
Sounds oddly familiar to religion today 😂
Some teenager in 6000 years: Hey, wanna go explore that field of giant spikes where the cats glow? You're not scared are ya?
Darwin
The post-civilization children yearn for the party spikes
Exactly
Weve been digging there! We think there’s treasure!
@@dd-nt9nl There would definitely be scary stories about kids who went there and came back and got sick, or even their skin fell off. The people who didn't believe it would find out the hard way, they might get cancer or something later in life (if they didn't dig or drill there) so it might not be immediately obvious. But if there were scary stories, just like there are about the forests and rivers at night, it would help a little.
Future warlord: *Reads the translation. * What if we dug it up and threw it into our enemy's cities?
Future archeologist: "Ah yes giant triangles of death much like the great pyramids of Giza from 20 000 years ago they are said to contain a curse that will befall on whomever disturbs the peace of what is burried there. I must dig this up! It will prove my theory that cultures evolve cyclically! Oh boy, that big grant is already mine!"
*5000 years from now*
Alex Jones Prime: "AND THE NUCLEAR PRIESTHOOD KEEP PUTTING CHEMICALS IN THE WATER MAKING THE FRICKIN CATS GLOW"
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT!? Ermf ermf shit CRAP!
@@cmcycles8387GAAAAAY FROOOOGS
Water ?
thats not water thats brondo
its got what plants crave
its got electrolytes
And the thing is; he’d be absolutely right lmao
@@tarheelcountry1868 when AJ starts making sense that's how we know we're cooked lol
My biggest concern is that this doesn't address our constant tendency to disregard the humanity of the past. Sure, the civilisation of the future might very well understand that we wanted them to know a place is dangerous, but would they care? Would they take it seriously? Or would they simply write us off as primitive and superstitious? How many tombs have we plundered because we entirely ignored the warnings?
Why should we even care to that degree? Make sure it's as inaccesible as possible and if they want f around and find out let them. Humanity didn't advance nor did it learn from mistake if those mistakes were made and often times people and societies need to re learn a lesson.
I think a big reason why archeologists consistently ignore those warnings is that they're consistently wrong: you'd be much less likely to plunder a place that has a bunch of non-precious metals and also kills you, after the first time someone does it and finds out what happens.
More than likely those “curses” and such were made at the time in a similar way to how we want to make it for nuclear waste. As far as their research allowed, they knew it was dangerous to SOMEONE and wanted to prevent that somehow
"Your majesty, even your cat is glowing. This strange land is a truly blessed one, who knows what treasures the Ancients have left for us below"
this is topic is so fascinating to me
also it bother me no one right at the start at the project thought "wait a minute, remember the pyramids? that aint gonna work. the more we warn them, the more they gonna look for info and treasure. we're kinda stupid as a species"
thanks for making this one fam
Isn't an important part of hostile architecture precisely being assimetrical and non functional? I think that wouldn't apply to the pyramids at least for the assimetrical aspect
It souldnt be, the whole thing is pretty stupid
Yeah, and the pyramids said you'd be cursed if you go in them too. Makes me wonder if we ignorantly released something we don't understand.
All of these are just gonna make people even more curious about going there lol. Human curiosity will always prevail over sense of danger. It feels like most of these people were trying to make a cool scifi setting than actually taking the topic seriously ngl.
Yup especially after something awful happened to create collective amnesia. 💀💀💀
I think it's an interesting thought experiment, asking how you would communicate to someone with absolutely zero awareness of the present modern world, as though all forms of tangible history ended, the best ways to communicate might just be to use symbols of the natural world, like orbitals of uranium or fissile materials, as in the style of the Voyager disk.
That's up for debate actually. Take a scenario in where civilization significantly regresses due to some arbitrary doomsday level scenario. Would our surviving descendants inhibit curious or wary behavior, as any surviving colonies would theoretically be more wary of things if knowledge of past events were communicated up to some degree?
The number of people who died cave-diving is proof of this.
Safety rules are written in blood, the site should cause degrees of harm up to lethal which would make any culture coming across it to actively guard people from entering it and keep warnings updated
I mean… eventually the problem kinda solves itself
Hate that this comment is so ignored. Only ppl who have had to learn the consequences of ignoring safety warnings, can truly understand how "safety rules are written in blood".
There's a problem if people think that the site has something worth protecting so badly it would have dangerous or lethal measures to keep it safe. Then it might cause some to try and go further despite the risks in hopes of finding some imaginary reward.
a bit of a wild idea but what if you bury it in an unmarked location but then put lavish structures and enticing architecture in another area as a red herring to further draw people away from the burial sites
That’s definitely interesting!
I like thissss could make them contain really intricate art and complicated puzzles and stuff to keep ‘em occupied
Yeah, the nuclear priesthood thing will backfire catastrophically. Seriously, the entire plot of Gurren Lagann is about how this exact idea wouldn't work.
It's almost like this whole field of study is retarded and most likely a scheme to siphon off some revenue so the department's budget isn't cut next year
Damn, that's a perfect example actually. Nice take.
Anti spiral reference?!
And now, almost 20 years later, I realize Confessor Cromwell from Megaton is a joke about nuclear priesthood. Youre doing the Lord's work
Me in 3099 when I fail to return the magic slab to the tomb and my skin falls off:
“YOU MUST NOT READ FROM THE BOOK!!!”
genre defining gem this guy just uploaded. cobson would be proud
My favorite, as in most effective, I believe would be to just bury it and don’t put anything around it. Cover in concrete, bury it deep, then forget about it.
Theres so many things just laying in the ground that we haven’t found, the earth is huge compared to people. Put a message on the concrete sarcophagus itself so in the eventuality people find it they can know what it is.
The risk of that, though, is the possibility for a later society beginning to drill or something and stumbling upon the waste without forewarning. Even if you want to argue that they would have no reason to drill in an area without resources, plenty of oil fields were once barren lands with seemingly little to offer, we can't assume the ecology of an area will be perfectly the same 10 000 years from now, especially considering climate change. Anyways I think a lot of the concern over how these structures trigger curiosity is a bit over blown given that the risk is digging or drilling, not mere presence in the structure, so the point is that exploration of the above ground area is safe but it deters any additional significant investment into actually disturbing or uncovering the waste. So even the examples of kids daring themsleves to go through the field of spikes wouldn't actually make them more likely to just you know, acquire the machinery to excavate however many kilometers of rock lol
@@wattthefaqameye1146 They rediscover nuclear physics and are digging a repository. They plan out the best location and dig. Oops, someone else has already dug there.
Yup. Bury it thousands of metres below the ocean floor in a secure capsule, in the middle of the Pacific ocean. Nothing on the surface needed.
Leave various messages and pictograms within the capsule in case highly advanced humans find it, in which case they would be more likely to be aware of radiation. Not sure the language barrier would get through to them? Humans know the human body. Show a human body covered in sores and bleeding and it'll certainly communicate something in the right direction
@@wattthefaqameye1146 it's not overblown at all. We literally have entire academic disciplines today that would go absolutely nuts over an ancient field of manmade spikes, such as archeology and anthropology. There are most likely things buried in this earth made by man from several millennia ago, but we will never find them because they are too deep in the ground and too inconspicuous. Once we acknowledge this possibility, we can make sure that this nuclear waste becomes part of that lost ancient history for future humans.
@@wattthefaqameye1146 Why not mention that the waste causes disease?
Egyptian tombs are a fitting example, considering they contained deadly bacteria and some of the first people who opened them got sick and died.
I doubt the Egyptians had any idea what dangerous things they were burying
No, there's no correlation--it's just a fun story.
Wasn't one of the tombs full of mercury? That seems more fitting.
@@callmegingaObviously they didn't knew about it; how come Tutankamon's tomb had Uranium oxide in it for example?
We’re lucky because thirty - forty years later we now know nuclear waste still has 97% usable energy left. So we would have warned future generations away from a perfect super rich fuel source!
you should patent this idea to use spent nuclear fuel as a fuel source for future generations. looking forward to hearing about all the awards you get. your h-index will definitely pop.
How dare RUclips hide this from me for a whole 39 seconds
Imagine five days....
Imagine two weeks....
They're keeping our man shadow banned, obvi
Imagine One month...
19:23 the idea of people going all the way into the desert to fry eggs on the mysterious square thing is legit hilarious.
"Cave men can come along and find a nuclear waste storage facility, but if they are hit with 5ft thick steel walls THEY'RE COOKED."
-SeedButter
Signaling danger without any shared concept or language. So interesting!! Thanks for this.
As much as I love the raycats, my biggest issue with them is that there's no guarantee future people won't fear the cat itself, and hunt them down to extinction under the belief they're somehow haunted or supernatural.
No matter what time in human history we're in, if raycats were an existing "fearsome" mythological beast, there will ALWAYS be a subsect of humanity that absolutely adores them. Satan himself was quite literally designed to be anti-human, in order to scare any and all human beings away from the mere concept of this horrific figure, yet we still have unironic satanists, satanic cults and people who just think Satan is really cool. We can't herd humans all into a singular perspective on something, it's never worked before and it won't in the future
Unironically Papa Doc moment
Or desire them as pets for their rarity. Either way is disturbing enough
thank you for making this I'm really obsessed with the idea of nuclear semiotics
27:03 better idea: engineer the flowers to resemble screaming human faces and only bloom when they detect a radiation leak.
K you get right on that let us know how it goes
@ I'm going to have to make a list of all the ideas I had while watching this.
God that would be so damn effective, *rREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE* Oh fuck we got a leak "Attention, A Radiation Leak has been Detected, Reactor Seal Protocols are to be activated Immediately, All Personnel Vacate Immediately)
For the priesthood thing I would recommend you look into the Ark of the Covenant. There is a church in Ethiopia that claims to possess the original. When the ark was stolen the bible talks of those viewing it getting tumors. The Ethiopian Ark is guarded by priests who sit in the room with the Ark and serve until they go completely blind. Every single priest that sits in the room with the Ark eventually goes completely blind. This could work. The myth of the ark is that god lives inside but seeing him will kill you.
Well TBF if we live long enough we all get cataracts, so…
The church in Ethiopia is pretty much universally agreed to be fake, and the Ark does not contain God. The Ark just has a golden vial of manna, Aaron's staff, and the tablets given to Moses.
The idea of a nuclear priesthood is inherently faulty. It ignores the fact that humans tend to be rebellious, going against those in power.
I didn't even know this was a thing, let alone enough talk about it that it warranted an iceberg. Thanks for the knowledge!
under 1 millenia gang
We making it out of the rad zone with this one
Raycat: Invented
Raycat: Becomes highly sought after by the neo-apocalyptic tribes only the tribal chief can own due to their rarity.
"Those who know 💀" ahh thumbnail
Those who nose 💀 mango mango mango
Hawk tuah respect button -------->
Fukushima Daiichi ahh Fuktonium
those who grow: 🌱
Stop talking like an urban
Maybe make a door with complicated instructions written on the door. If you can translate the dead language enough to open the door you can read the reasons why it's closed
oooo this is a really interesting idea
The walls collapse
Imagine the amount of people who would just bash it in.
Ooga booga hammer smash strange symbols
People would just break it open. People tunnel through mountains all the time, give them enough time and they'll break the door.
This was fun to watch! Thanks for the video :D
"Oh, _you hidin treasure."_
No matter how scary and dangerous you make it appear to be, some motherfucker is gonna say “I bet I can use it to kill my enemy”. See “The Ring of Power” or “The Ark of The Covenant”.
14:45 the guy from "the scream" would adequately convey terror to a caveman
“Yeah but like sorry, we can’t share this song with you that’s made specifically to spread as much as possible to spread future awareness of nuclear catastrophe because it’s copy righted”
Man copyright is so fucking stupid on so many levels lol
11:09 wanted to get the nuclear waste warning "not only will this kill you, it will hurt the whole time you're dying" tattooed or incorporated into a tat and my friend told me it was a perfect tramp stamp
35:53 This gave me a fucking shiver done my spine. Please make that iceberg I’ve been sleeping too well lately.
To be fair that trailer is likely carrying some kind of motorcycle, lol.
I remember the feeling invoked when I saw the Spike Field for the first time in 2018 in Fallout 76 when I stumbled upon it’s Federal Disposal Field HZ-21 area. I became obsessed with learning what it was as most things in Fallout games, especially in Bethesda’s releases are very accurate recreations of real world areas. That rabbit hole was so fun. Aside from the Sandia Report, which I had previously read to learn more - There is so little organized information about these Hostile Architecture ideas, especially the Spike Field concept, that seeing this video a little over 6 years later was the fastest I’ve ever clicked. I was happy to learn a lot of new things too! Thank you! Subbed.
It's all fun and games until your shelter cat starts glowing green
earned my sub, always been interested in this topic and def plan on reading the sandia report and the other one soon
The fact that people think the earth will exist the way we think it will in any capacity is pure hubris.
Worst thing about the black hole especially if it's out in a desert is sandstorms or just weather in general, after 100 years alone 98% of the black surface is going to be covered by sand dirt/mud. You would have to place it somewhere where it could be safe from the weathering. Or you could make it a little tiny slope and make a fountain where water can clean it off every couple of hours
i think the skull and bones might be the closest thing we can get to an universal warning sign, sure, certain cultures feel more positive about the image of a skeleton like mexico, but it still represents death, even there.
Good video, got a sub from me. I've always found fields where "hard and social sciences" overlap. Where there is a logical problem of don't go here, but because we're humans, we have to prepare for curiosity.
24:16 we totally made irl Zelda dungeons with zesty layers
it seems like an impossible problem. 10,000 years is a timespan we simply cannot comprehend. all proposals would inevitably succumb to curiosity, vandalism, or simply erosion. especially telling people that further information will be found further towards the actual danger seems counter productive
Yeah its pretty neat, even if you go with leaving no structures and putting it up to chance that nobody tries to dig or pump water from the site, you would have to scrub all existing information relating to WIPP’s purpose and existence. Maybe they should look into methods to accelerate information decay!
there is a series of books by Anne McCaffrey about planet Pern which at first reads as your almost typical fantasy novel.
i will try not to spoil anything for those who were about to read it, but
humans there have a thing where they have to constantly send somehow the knowledge of a global catastrophy (of their world) and how to effectively battle it or prevent - to future generations,
and they did it in a form of ballads that are composed by current culture and transfered on available medium (mostly skins and tapestry) via folks that are called harpers (they are equivalent of historians, philosophers, art people etc.) and they too had this problem of "how to explain this dire thing to people that will not be like us in several centuries come"
luckily they succeeded and now after this iceberg video i will describe the book series as a "nuclear semiotics success story" lmao
awesome vid dude!
I think we should bury it in containers that just have a frowny face on them. Who's gonna open a sad emoji?
New Seedbutter vid les goooooooo ❤
the titanic iceberg
top water
middle water
bottom water
abyss big old boat
thank you for coming to the titanic iceberg comment
Thanks for the info I would've never been able to figure out what a titanic iceberg is without you
Where do the Olympic and Brittani go?
@@EvdogMusic the rms olympic was scrapped and sold and did not sink so at the top i guess
hmhs brittanic is at the top of the abyss as it only suck a couple 100 meters compared to the titanics several thousand meters
The problem with just burying it in the desert and ignoring it is that it won’t stay a desert forever. It will one day become habitable and it’s hard to tell if the radiation would be safe by then.
Fun fact: cats, the normal ones we keep around today, really hate certain specific places; nobody knows why. But cats are just glitchy, right? It's not a warning or something.
i love how the glowing cats idea is basically just an organic geiger counter that demands food
And like... all of these are rendered to nothing more than interesting thought exercises in existentialism when you do any amount of research into current day nuclear technology.
What was considered waste back in the day can be reused over again. So, a lot of ink spilled over an issue that engineers were developing past anyways.
And there's the inherent boogeyman-ification of nuclear energy, which is the most primitive thing we could display to our future descendants.
The cult of Hollywood, started with China syndrome and 3 mile. Now the cult has the followers following the Kardashians and having sex changes.
Can't fix dumb.
it's a good thing that there is so much fear created around it, the current progress in anything doesn't mean a thing when it's still one of the most potentially deadly things we deal with
Amen. Our future is (at least temporarily) nuclear
Time to code and watch an iceberg by a good creator, lol.
Ask any archaeologist, or any dumb, bored teen. Put a foreboding, "Do not enter" sign at an ominously abandoned building or location, and people, both individuals and groups, are going to what to know "what's in there?"
This seems cool.
Awesome upload bro.
Consider this: having all of these at all means at least one of these ideas may actually stick, so even if some are ridiculous or some feel like they'll die over time it only matters if one survives, likely being the concrete spike fields but I digress
The concrete spikes are the lest successful idea. I already want to go there
I thought the art of the iceburg was a forgotten one. Turns out you must've decoded the remaining iceberg semiotics, because this is one good iceberg video.
Nevertheless, a warning sign that a material with a potential to completely annihilate people will always be not only ignored but actually pursued by perverse individuals.
I really enjoyed this watch, some super fascinating stuff. Would definitely be interested in seeing the warning sign iceberg if you do make it!
The diphenhydramine iceberg was my first video. I think it was a week old when I found it. Been watching your stuff ever since!
An ancient monolith left by an extinct civilization, in a language people don't understand, talking about harm and death for those who desecrate such site... Where have I seen this before?
Absolute cinema. Great work
A good start would be recycling the nuclear waste to extract the useful stuff out. Then you would only need to store the actual waste materials for a few hundred to a few thousand years. Also constantly update the warnings.❤
I thought I had an idea thinking of using star charts and constellations to convey the timeframe... then I got to @27:55
I don't think any of the warnings should be in languages, rather they should be in universal symbols, like hieroglyphs essentially.
Like imagine this:
"Dozens of people running away in agony whilst their flesh melts off from a glowing green orb." > "The glowing green orb is shown under the structure."
In this way, language isn't even needed at all to emphasize that it is a threat, it literally shows it.
Languages are temporary, crude realistic symbology is eternal.
But then, how would someone know to interpret the figures as running away from the orb? How would we ensure someone knows to interpret the figures as dying because of the orb?
The depiction might be viewed as a relief of an ancient myth, and they might not read the depiction as a warning, but as a treasure map.
I disagree. Even with just pictograms, what's stopping "people running from a green orb with their skin coming off" from being interpreted as "green orb of life creating humanity, which dies when far from its awesomeness". And thus encouraging looters looking for ancient religious artifacts.
A fun aside for hieroglyphs, they have been historically notorious for being misinterpreted. Only ~200 years after the last inscription, you have the writings of people like Horapollo totally butchering not only the meaning but also the writing system itself. Part of the reason hieroglyphs were associated with "mystical writing" was precisely because they show images of real things, which humans instinctively want to give meaning to. Instead of, you know, treating it like a writing system.
@@raxusveritas I'm sorry but how and why would someone interpret the maimed bodies of people running away from an accursed artifact as a thing that is treasure?
That's like saying acid warning signs can be misinterpreted to be an invisibility potion.
The issue with most of these is that they would never work if whatever future creatures are anything like us. We have an inherit drive to explore and understand things even if it's at the risk of our lives.
The best deterrent might actually be to just not hide it and let a few die every now and then to scare away the rest.
Ive been working on a post-nuclear story since 2018ish, at the very heart of it is nuclear semiotics and a "nuclear church"- strange, foreboding monuments in shunned places and masked monks.
Radioactive waste is not as dangerous as you think...
If you read the wikipedia article you can see it is like throwing trash into a bin (nuclear) VS throwing trash to the ground (coal)
Hi - thanks for the vid - just a random pick, but turned out to be fascinating - subbed and will catch up with the rest eventually, cheers 😁🇬🇧
My proposition to the problem would be a basic labyrinth where we would coerce animal species, particularly dangerous predators, to stay in for long periods of time. With the effects of radiation as we know it from the Chernobyl exclusion zone we learn that dogs in particular can evolve quickly to resist and even coat themselves in radiation to no ill effects.
With some luck these species of dogs would use these locations as dens for however many years in order to keep out people who are insufficiently armed and prepared.
I walk around with a geiger counter after living next to a nuclear fuel plant my whole life.There was a tiny sign on the creepy barn/fallout shelter in the front that obviously did not go there.
I can't believe it took me 8 minutes to find this video
The field of thorns is my favorite design, but the thinner structures probably makes them less durable and therefore less appropriate for this usage
how about we build the nuclear dnd dungeon. but we put freddy fazbear in it
I got three unskippable ads before I could watch this video. I will hopefully be back to properly watch it once RUclips stops being so Sweet Home Alabama.
We watched something about the Finish storage facility in school way back when I was a little kid and to this day I don't understand why they didn't write something along the lines of "this is poisonous" as the vauge fearmongering would only make people curious and/or see it as some status symbol to be the one conguring it.
those who know 💀
(but fr the thumbnail aint it imo)
If they do forget radiation, they'll find the waste, some people will die, and they'll discover the danger of radioactivity again. A skull and crossbones, or faces of anguish, seem like the simplest and most effective method to me, and I can't imagine those symbols will be completely eroded by time. I don't think preventing all future radiation poisoning is realistic or even necessarily our responsibility. Fascinating field of research though
That’s basically what surrounded the Ark of the Covenant in ancient Israel, and some Philistines still decided to FAFO.
What I’m hoping is that humanity will be an interstellar civilization in 10,000 years and will not only know exactly what nuclear waste is, but have a method of rendering it harmless instantly.
Let's use a skull and crossbones to mark this dangerous location. 40,000 years into the future; "Quickly, we can take shelter from the cultists in this ancient Imperial bunker".
Hmm. Maybe combine these ideas. Create the scary architecture, the monuments to fear. But don’t actually place anything radioactive inside them. Place the actual radioactive material in an unmarked location. But information about those locations inside the monuments. That way, when a civilization is advanced enough to find a translate the info, it can receive a warning about places that are actually dangerous.
Good vid bud
The “don’t change color, kitty” song needs to be in Fallout 5.
I think the most boring solution is by far the best. Just make the site as remote and inconspicuous as possible. What are the odds that some future human are going to dig up this one random patch of barren desert in one of the most inhospitable regions of the world? Every other proposal is far more likely to attract humans to the site than repel. Unfortunately, human curiosity is a more powerful force than fear and reason combined.
put it very deep down below under the surface of the most remote location of the ocean (nemo point), and done.
i think its easy to forget that one of the main functions of scary structures that are obviously manmade is to discourage people from attempting to start settlements or grow crops on or around that land. That gives them time to survive and eventually thrive without being wiped out completely by an invisible poison. Yes there would eventually be people who want to understand and explore the structure, but any small population of people as a whole will still survive as long as they dont mistakenly go digging and drilling or plantng crops on or around it. Its not about warning one or two people, moreso avoiding mass casualties that could occur and perhaps even kill off the last humans. Unlikely but that’s the scenario of concern rather than a couple ternagers or Archaeologists getting sick.
"yeah theres this spot over there where people keep uh dying horribly"
"yeah lets just stay away from it"
what is so hard about this
But what if we throw it at the other tribes?
Every thing about semiotics screams 'treasure here'
29:46 when farming next to the ominous megalith kills you, you will notice
People would not know otherwise and assume it to be something different
Future tourist destinations 😅
So why can't we just load all of our nuclear waste onto a spaceship and launch it into the sun?
It’s all fun and games until the rocket crashes and we get Chernobyl 2: The Search for More Cancer
@saltytriscuit896 that only sounds slightly worse than what we're dealing with already.
People underestimate how much energy is necessary to crash something into the sun. Try it in Kerbal! 🚀
"Gee, how could we warn people for generations to come that this place is dangerous?"
"I know, let's build a HUGE statue of a lioness with a human face!"
"GENIOUS! Guaranteed to creep people out!"
There should be an Easter egg in Fallout where you can randomly encounter a glowing cat at night 😂
The TV show "American Horror Story: Apocalypse" has a Message Kiosk! It is the entrance of the school for boys (underground) where the causer of the Nuclear War lived. I love that show and I just learned that from this video, thanks.
Only the intellectuals would say spike field. Basically every other group would think its cool as fuck.
maybe they should just show humans suffering and being mangled in the most horrific ways possible through statues?
Nuclear semiotics being memes doesnt sound weird at all, since memes came from memetics to begin with
To your point about modern humans not carrying equipment to detect radiation everywhere we go: we kind of do. Digital cameras like the ones in our phones use CMOS (Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor) image sensors, which are sensitive to ionizing radiation such as gamma rays. These show up in photos or video as a flurry of small white dots resembling static, and the more radiation there is, the more they are visible.
Now make everyone aware of that fact.
There aren't enough videos about nuclear semiotics