I like Joe. Nice guy and all. But I must say David Groh's not in the same league as the other actors in the show. He hasn't got the capacity for comedy like Harper, Kavner and Silver (that's a lot of er's!). Ma and Pa are also brilliant. Even Lorenzo. But Groh.....mehhh. He's just not got it, for me. The storyline doesn't quite add up.... even Joe himself as a character would have words with Joe! "What are you playing at?!?" But hey...
Farewell to Joe Girard. I hate how they made him out to be a real jerk. David Groh did not want to leave the series, and he hated what the writers did to his character.
@@jamesfeeney3016 I disagree. I think the show was not funny with Rhoda married because David Groh was not funny. There are plenty of comedies which are hilarious with Married couples, I Love Lucy, Maude, All In The Family, etc.
For two people that loved each other, they sure blew it. Joe had been married before, he should have known the score with marriage. Of course this is fiction, but we just loved and rooted for Rhoda to be happy
My wife and I had been separated for 3 months in May of 70 and tried a reconciliation. I spent the night at Her Apartment, everything went well. The next morning I was combing my hair and noticed a stack on names and numbers on Her dresser, I asked Her about them. She told Me that they were men that She had dated since We were separated. I was crushed, my heart was broken, I couldn't accept the fact that I meant so little to Her that She was sleeping around while We were trying to work out Our problems. I hadn't even looked at another woman. That was the end of Our marriage, it ruined my life and severely damaged the life of Our Son. Trial separations only work if the bonds of marriage are not broken.
that's what sucks about separation, especially theirs. Stop being comfortable, shit or get off the pot. HE wanted to separate, not her, so to see other people while still married and not having given your spouse an answer is unfair
@@ShanteeHaynes Yep. Joe was the one who walked out on Rhoda and he was also the first one who started seeing other people. He just expected Rhoda to remain un-united in the state of (un?)holy separation with him till death do they un-part!? Joe really wanted to have Rhoda's cake and eat random pies, too. Hell no, Joe, hell no.
How can rhoda at this point still want to get back with joe is beyond me, say he moves back in she would live each day wondering if and when he is gonna leave again
@The mysterious Miss X I agree with you 💯 on these two points. Joe was a big boy, he wasn't FORCED to marry anyone. And I think Rhoda tried to be a feminist.. but she definitely still had a lot of old fashioned notions pinning her down.
I’m watching Rhoda in 2022 and I’m damn mad at the producers to break up the marriage. The way Rhoda says Joe.. with such feelings and admiration breaks my heart !
LadyDuck106 - You are absolutely correct. I once met Charlotte Brown, one of the writers of this series, and she said that the biggest mistake the producers made was having Rhoda get married too soon in the series (episodes 8-9) and by the 3rd season, they were running out of ideas for the show. I always felt that they should have had Rhoda get pregnant. But as you said, the audience didn't take to the divorced Rhoda. Probably because too many fans of the show were also going through the same trauma themselves and Rhoda and Joe getting divorced reminded them of their own painful experiences.
Dennis Nayland Smith And I'm sure you have seen the infamous Season Three opener, "The Separation." Brutal to watch even today, and I have seen it so many times.
BettinaBalser I haven't seen it in a long time but I can't bear to watch it either. I know this is "just a television series" but Rhoda's main ambition throughout her existence, going back to when she was on MTM was to get married and to watch the destruction of everything she had ever lived for was very cruel. I find no humor in that.
I think that Rhoda is the best American comedy show ever. I think that Rhoda and Joe separated and divorced and married at the perfect moments. Sure, the show had sad moments, but it never stopped being a comedy, and those sad moments gave the show poignancy and an edge thanks to the writers, directors, Valerie, Julie, and everybody else involved in the show.
Ironically, Valerie Harper's first marriage was also starting to fall apart around this time so I can only imagine how difficult it was for her to play Rhoda getting divorced.
So....the "Fans" of Rhoda were bored with the marriage. At the very least they could have had them reconcile eg. the New Years Eve "celebration" at Rhoda's apartment debacle when the two of them kissed on the count down to 1977. Wouldn't that have been a relief to the ones that really loved Rhoda and Joe? Then ratings would have ascended to high levels! …….again
@The mysterious Miss X Hmm... idk... he did have certain narcessistic traits, if not full blown NPD. (I've studied NPD and I don't just throw that term around lightly.) Joe was very gaslight-y. Always invalidating Rhoda's feelings and acting like his offenses were "no big deal" while he was absolutely breaking her heart and tearing her life to pieces. He also witheld sex, love, and affection from her. Love bombing her and discarding her, like narcs do. He really got off on making her grovel for him. If he wasn't a narcessist, he was definitely some kind of sociopath or sadist. Mr nice guy, my arse!
Things may have been a bit more loose in 1977, but it was never "ethical" (as Dr. Fox describes it), for a physician to date a patient (or even a former patient). Today, doctors would lose their license for doing such a thing.
The character actually explicitly acknowledged the ethical breach, and immediately terminated the doctor-patient relationship. So take your faux outrage and shove it up some convenient aperture.
Men will drag it out as long you out up with them Cake and eat it .. its so disrespectful esp since tgey were already married. very degrading. Sex is not the same as love. Heres a guy with a child already. and tic tock Rhoda has none... and hes wasting hier time being selfish. thats the worst thing to do to a women in love
I read that the show's writers thought the audience would prefer to have Rhoda like her former character on the MTM show; single and dealing with the dating game. It was a mistake; audiences didn't go for it and the show was eventually cancelled. The network built up the marriage then had Joe pretty much dump her. David Groh actually got hate mail! I thought the show was still pretty good because of the chemistry between Rhoda and Brenda!
@The mysterious Miss X Where was she supposed to get that...at the Self Esteem store? She is a character, as they said the writers decided to make her needy again, after her transformation of becoming a confident and happy wife. It was a mistake to change her back, because the audience loved the under dog Rhoda and wanted to see her happy.
@@lisawentworth6831 I think it sent a really important message that marriage doesn't magically instill confidence. In fact, the wrong spouse can really undermine your confidence. It's better to be single than to be married to someone who doesn't want the same things you do in life. (But it's so stupid that people actually sent the actor hate mail! I hate the character of Joe, but Dave isn't Joe. Ffs.)
@@themaggattack Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. But this is a character, whom we love, who fell in love with someone with the same values. So your theory is bust...we love Rhoda, she loved Joe, the actor got hate mail and did not want to leave the series, so it was the writers fault....not a matter of someone instilling confidence or any hooey. Rhoda, the character, was happy, and we wanted that for her. Stupid writers!
"The Ultimatum" is the 18th episode of Season 3 of "Rhoda". This episode was written by Charlotte Brown, and directed by Tony Mordente. It originally aired on CBS on January 30, 1977. This episode featured the final appearances of David Groh and Mary Tyler Moore. David Groh went on to star in a short-lived CBS series "Another Day" (1978). He first appeared in the series premiere "Joe", which aired on September 9, 1974. Mary Tyler Moore first appeared in the series premiere "Joe", which aired on September 9, 1974, but it was cut from syndicated prints, as well as the Season 1 DVD release.
He has the best of both worlds: a wife for when he's lonely, and his own apartment for when he wants to feel like he's single. I actually think a lot of men would find that situation appealing, even more so today..
What's really sad is that only the actress that played Brenda is alive today. The series was no doubt in trouble because of the writers. They made the mother the only strong character. The father was weak, the daughters were weak, and even Brenda's love interests were weak. The first opportunity that Brenda had at getting married, instead of her being happy she met someone who really loved her and was successful, they had her break up with him quickly. It seems that they enjoyed having female characters be weak and incapable of finding happiness on their own, or with someone who truly loved them. I liked the Joe character he was written in to help Rhoda find her backbone, then they rewrote him to be a narcissist. Actually, it seems that the character just got tired of Rhoda's insecurities. Terrible writing and lack of character development. Someone should have spoken up about the scripts.
@@dianamarie4351 Joe telling her she'd lose him unless she improved her confidence was sooo arrogant. Also, it was the fastest way to completely destroy her confidence! Insecurity may be a turn off, but so is arrogance.
@@dianamarie4351 plus, the person who loves you is supposed to help you become stronger and overcome your insecurities-not add to them and threaten you.
@@Kat.Evangeline14 The sad thing is, for some people, it actually is real. As real as politics, where they're perfectly happy to accept TV characters with cartoon personalities as representatives, senators, and even presidents. P.S. When I say "they", I'm only talking about people who are bereft of the capability or inclination for critical thinking.
He is hilarious here! He is Rene Auberjonois. He played "Odo" in Star Trek Depp Space Nine, "Clayton Endicott III" in Benson, and even "Father Mulcahy" in the 1970 movie M*A*S*H! I am a big fan!
To Joe’s defense, I was married less than two years with a baby and my sister needed to stay with us while finishing high school. A year later my father lived with us part time. The crib moved into our bedroom and we had little time together as a couple. My husband never complained but watching this series, brought it all back.
They actually wrote that into the first season. Joe asked Rhoda to move in with him, but she told him that she couldn't live with him without their being married. So he more or less married her under duress.
I'm solo excited that I finally got to see the WEDDING!!! I've waited for a lotta years for it and never dreamed there was any chance to see it, voila, it came up on RUclips, after 'these eyes-the guess who'. I'm not askin', just sayin' I'm glad it did!!
But I thought they were on their way to divorce. I mean, he has been dating other women. Obviously he doesn't miss her. Why is she doing that to herself? I don't understand this series.
Boy have times changed. Joe's character didn't want to say 'pissed off' in front of his wife yet Judge Judy says it in front of millions of people now. And if a doctor kissed his patient now a days, he'd be sued up his PhD arse and lose his license. The future looks dismal! :)
I'm starting to think the writers have made Rhoda just like her mom, nagging all the time, getting riled up about things, etc. She was so laid back in earlier shows, kind of hippy, make love not war when she first was introduced on MTM. Now she goes off all the time. Sad they made her this way, I loved the laid back, chill character Rhoda use to be.
Rhoda would have worked if she did not marry so fast. She should dated and gotten settled in NYC for season 1. Get married in season 2. Get pregnant in season 3. Have the baby in 4.
Doctor Fox is so out of line. You can't hit on patients like that. Rhoda's still mourning the break up of her marriage. Loved this episode because of the focus on dysfunctional relationships.
I'm hating this Joe/Rhoda story arc. She's such a doormat. Joe walked out on her after 2 years of marriage now keeps her dangling on a string with one date a week, while he enjoys his bachelor life the rest of the time. Now she wants a bit more attention from HER HUSBAND he throws a fit. What a Jerk! I know he never really wanted to get married, that was Rhoda, he just wanted them to live together. But that's a red flag right there. He wanted a backdoor for when he got bored. He'd have left her either way. That's why he wanted to live together instead of marriage. An easy out. She needs to serve divorce papers first thing. It's weird without Ida meddling. It's Dec 2020, binge-watching Rhoda thru quarantine. I'm way too invested for a 70s TV show!
If I had been a writer of this show, Rhoda and Joe would have been happily married, and she wouldn't have been so high strung and Joe wouldn't have been a hothead. There could have been adventures made for them as a happy duo, especially in NYC., and she'd have her jobs. Alot of tv sitcom characters are happily married...sitcom shows don't have to be about dating. As much trouble as Lucy Riccardo caused Ricky he always loved her. That doctor played on several sitcoms.
I guess we will never know the true reason they changed the show the deal about how the writers had trouble writing about a married couple doesnt cut it there is another reason what it is I guess only the people actually involved will ever know
OMFG, Rhoda! How much of this will you take before you finally Divorce Joe's love-bombing, discarding, breadcrumbing, "lying, cheating, two-timin' double dealin', mean, mistreatin' lovin' heart" ?! (Had to quote a country song to convey the messed up depths of this plot!) "I guess YOU won, congratulations." Wooooowwww. He really called her bluff and gaslighted TF out of her. WAKE UP, RHODA!!!!! -- (Yikes, Dr. Fox! 😬 Only in the 70's!) -- "Are you sick?" No, he's a psychologist. "Oh. Are you nuts?" 😂 Carlton! -- Joe has every single bit of NERVE to expect Rhoda to just remain in limbo forever, in anguish, just waiting by the phone at his beckon call while he dates other people. He doesn't want her, but he doesn't want anyone else to have her either. Wants to have Rhoda's cake and eat random pies, too! And then twist it around on her like this is what SHE wanted?! The nerve! The pomposity! *"Rhoda, Rhoda. Your life isn't over. You can get along without Joe."* Rhoda's already been knowing this. She just had to put the words in Mary's mouth to shake herself out of denial.
That last part with Mary and Rhoda is priceless. It didn't matter that Mary repeated her words. The words were coming from MARY, so you just believed she was right. :-)
What would be the point of Rhoda going to a marriage counselor, anyway? Joe never wanted any part of it. And I am not saying her job is of no importance, but good grief, she often acts like she is Madam Curie or a biologist working on a vaccine. She is a window dresser. Joe never wanted to marry her or anyone else. They should never have married, but she kept pushing it. They really didn't know each other that well when they married. Rhoda sometimes acts like the world revolves around her, barging in and demanding to see that therapist when he had a session going on.
Well, Michelle, you're right in so many ways. But why push it about Rhoda''s job as a window dresser? Is that so much worse than a guy who tears down buildings?
He is probably best known for his role in the Star Trek franchise. I love Trek, but I've never watched Deep Space Nine. Yet I recognized his character immediately, so you probably would recognize him as well. He died two years ago. RIP.
What a Horrible dress that Rhoda is wearing.. it looks like a house dress or what my mom would say, a “mumu”.. A total departure from her usual amazing wardrobe
I agree. And then next season they actually went to some singing lyrics of " da da da daaah da da da da." No wonder the show dropped even further in the ratings.
What happened to mom and dad Morgenstern this season? As annoying as they could be, it's as though they never existed. And what about Rhoda's work, and her friends? I don't think Rhoda's and Joe's separation and her relationship with Brenda is enough to carry the entire show. Only saving grace is that the writers remembered she had a friend named Mary! You can see with each season how writers struggled to manage Rhoda's identity. It was almost too realistic and deep to be considered a sitcom
I really didn't like the way the writers took Joe off the show. I thought we were beyond in seeing Rhonda single when she was single on the Mary Taylor Moore show.Ry and her should have gotten married not just being single.
Joe's just a jerk. He married her and now he doesn't want to be married. His vows to her meant nothing. He's just a macho jerk. I didn't see him correctly the first time around with this series.
Good grief, doesn't Brenda have friends or common sense? Seems like every hour she has a problem she has to talk to Rhoda about. That marriage counselor has played on various TV shows back then. I watched this show new. I think he was a lawyer on Night Court. Joe and Rhoda's marriage sure didn't last long, for all all the hype it had gotten at the start.
After the demise of this show, Valerie Harper tried to embark on a film career. Her first attempt, The Last Married Couple in America. How ironic. Sort of shades of this show. She was a friend of Natalie Wood's character. A decent movie.
I don't like that they broke Joe and Rhoda up 😩 and certainly don't like at all the way they had Joe (David Groh) treat Rhoda😩. What was the purpose of them breaking up anyway 🤷. It all ended so quickly and upbrutly. Why did they do that???🤦 PS - I L ☺️ V E Carlton, the doorman!! He cracked me up back in the day and he still does!!! 😅🤣😂😭 01.27.2022
Watching old reruns of this. I remember the show as a kid not this episode though. This doctor is so unethical. What they did to Joe character is terrible. What happened to Ida and Marty? These changes were good for this show. ETA. I meant were not good for the show
Merri Cat Ida and Marty are away on vacation......(or Nancy and Harold have got a job acting on something else, maybe even theatre? Must be a drag for producers when a team of actors get splintered by overlapping diaries!).
The show got too dark and too angry toward the last few seasons. I never liked joes character because he was always complaining. I didn’t like seeing Rhoda angry, hurt and unhappy. Rhoda is at her most beautiful when she’s happy, laughing and loving.
Joe was not marriage material. I believe he loved Rhoda but didn’t want to be tied down, he married her because SHE wanted ti be married. He just wasn’t the marrying kind.
What a jerk Joe was being. He wanted to have his cake and eat it too. He wanted to see Rhoda when he wanted to, then put her in a box until the next time he wanted to see her, knowing she wasn't seeing anyone else. He frankly needed to fish or cut bait. I guess this is his last episode and soon they'll be divorced. Too bad. I really did like them together as a married couple.
The writers had to make him seem like a jerk at this point to justify the split. Neither actor wanted to divorce and it was dumb to not reunite them at some point.
Notice she never mentioned him after season 3. That was strange but at least she wasn't always taking shots at him like Sally about her ex. That got old
@@TanjiTuesday For some reason which I don't agree with, the producers thought Rhoda wasn't as funny as a married woman. I think they ought to have kept Rhoda and Joe married, keep him on the show and eventually have a baby. They could've done all the single woman stuff with Brenda. The actor playing Joe (David something?) didn't want to leave the show, in fact I read that he had just bought a house thinking he had a secure job when they told him Joe was divorcing Rhoda and leaving the show. It was never as good with Rhoda dating idiots like Johnny Venture as it was with her married to Joe. And I loved the bright apartment rather than the darker and more dismal one.
@@dianamarie4351 Rhoda had a bad self image. I think she felt it was her fault that Joe left her, she wasn't everything he wanted or whatever, she had failed. That wasn't it, supposedly Joe just didn't want to be tied down to one woman.
I think if this was real life, Joe should have been "Honest" off bat. I don't want to be "married and like this theis why" I think they made Rhoda very clingy and pushing Joe to stay in the marriage. Instead of letting him go.
Funny stuff, but the script is ridiculous. Psychologist does something completely unethical with his patient, and the patient reciprocates unethically? Let me get this straight: Rhoda is desperate to save her marriage; so, of all the things she could up with to deal with the ultimatum, she goes out with her shrink? The star of the show? Not a brilliant idea here.
I absolutely hate that the writers chose to have Rhoda get divorced but I hate it more that Rhoda didn't tell Joe to screw off.
It was a ridiculous storyline
Me, too.
But she still loves Joe. She hasn't given up on him.
I like Joe. Nice guy and all.
But I must say David Groh's not in the same league as the other actors in the show. He hasn't got the capacity for comedy like Harper, Kavner and Silver (that's a lot of er's!). Ma and Pa are also brilliant. Even Lorenzo. But Groh.....mehhh. He's just not got it, for me.
The storyline doesn't quite add up.... even Joe himself as a character would have words with Joe! "What are you playing at?!?" But hey...
@Joshua Swain What a stupid thing to say
The nerve of Joe demanding things of Rhoda, he was the one that broke it off. So wishy washy.
Farewell to Joe Girard. I hate how they made him out to be a real jerk. David Groh did not want to leave the series, and he hated what the writers did to his character.
Truly awful..🙄
The 70s feminist narrative. The man had to be bad.
They got rid of Joe character because the show was less funny with rhoda married!!
I've had forty+ years to work through the emotion and I'm in a better place about Rhoda & Joe's divorce now. LOL
@@jamesfeeney3016 I disagree. I think the show was not funny with Rhoda married because David Groh was not funny. There are plenty of comedies which are hilarious with Married couples, I Love Lucy, Maude, All In The Family, etc.
For two people that loved each other, they sure blew it. Joe had been married before, he should have known the score with marriage. Of course this is fiction, but we just loved and rooted for Rhoda to be happy
I think a lot of us identify with Rhoda. So in rooting for her happiness, we're rooting for our own happiness.
@@themaggattack That's a really good point! Yea me! The underdog! I wish all the people that didn't have love or happiness the best....
It's called a
Script
@The mysterious Miss X they always seemed desperately in love,,,what are you om about?
I felt heartbroken when rhoda and Joe broke up! they had great chemistry
Wow that was so unfair of Joe not to tell Rhoda he was no longer seeing the doctor.
The best episode of Rhoda. Honest, imperfect, heartwarming. And Mary was there for Rhoda too :)
My wife and I had been separated for 3 months in May of 70 and tried a reconciliation. I spent the night at Her Apartment, everything went well. The next morning I was combing my hair and noticed a stack on names and numbers on Her dresser, I asked Her about them. She told Me that they were men that She had dated since We were separated. I was crushed, my heart was broken, I couldn't accept the fact that I meant so little to Her that She was sleeping around while We were trying to work out Our problems. I hadn't even looked at another woman. That was the end of Our marriage, it ruined my life and severely damaged the life of Our Son. Trial separations only work if the bonds of marriage are not broken.
A,separation is not for dating . it's to 're evaluate
that's what sucks about separation, especially theirs. Stop being comfortable, shit or get off the pot. HE wanted to separate, not her, so to see other people while still married and not having given your spouse an answer is unfair
I’m sorry you feel like it ruined your life. Hope you feel better now. And your son.
@@ShanteeHaynes Yep. Joe was the one who walked out on Rhoda and he was also the first one who started seeing other people. He just expected Rhoda to remain un-united in the state of (un?)holy separation with him till death do they un-part!? Joe really wanted to have Rhoda's cake and eat random pies, too. Hell no, Joe, hell no.
@@ShanteeHaynes
How can rhoda at this point still want to get back with joe is beyond me, say he moves back in she would live each day wondering if and when he is gonna leave again
I guess she still loved him. He really was the love of her life.
i love Valerie shes so genuine and talented ! her and Marys chemistry is insane.
They definitely maried Rhoda way too soon. The joe character probably shouldn't have even have appeared till season 2.
lesson ladies, never force a man to marry you...the shit wont last
Also, learn important life lessons from a 70s sitcom.
Bravo!!!!! Bravo!
Lesson men, never marry a feminist
@The mysterious Miss X I agree with you 💯 on these two points. Joe was a big boy, he wasn't FORCED to marry anyone. And I think Rhoda tried to be a feminist.. but she definitely still had a lot of old fashioned notions pinning her down.
Rhonda wasn't emotionally healthy enough to be in any relationship, never mind marriage!
I’m watching Rhoda in 2022 and I’m damn mad at the producers to break up the marriage. The way Rhoda says Joe.. with such feelings and admiration breaks my heart !
And the way they made him into a self-centered jerk was a damn shame.
LadyDuck106 - You are absolutely correct. I once met Charlotte Brown, one of the writers of this series, and she said that the biggest mistake the producers made was having Rhoda get married too soon in the series (episodes 8-9) and by the 3rd season, they were running out of ideas for the show. I always felt that they should have had Rhoda get pregnant. But as you said, the audience didn't take to the divorced Rhoda. Probably because too many fans of the show were also going through the same trauma themselves and Rhoda and Joe getting divorced reminded them of their own painful experiences.
Dennis Nayland Smith And I'm sure you have seen the infamous Season Three opener, "The Separation." Brutal to watch even today, and I have seen it so many times.
BettinaBalser I haven't seen it in a long time but I can't bear to watch it either. I know this is "just a television series" but Rhoda's main ambition throughout her existence, going back to when she was on MTM was to get married and to watch the destruction of everything she had ever lived for was very cruel. I find no humor in that.
I think that Rhoda is the best American comedy show ever. I think that Rhoda and Joe separated and divorced and married at the perfect moments. Sure, the show had sad moments, but it never stopped being a comedy, and those sad moments gave the show poignancy and an edge thanks to the writers, directors, Valerie, Julie, and everybody else involved in the show.
A baby would have ruined this show for me 🤷🏻♀️
Not really. The fans didn't like the separation and divorce, and the viewing figures went down after they split up....
Ironically, Valerie Harper's first marriage was also starting to fall apart around this time so I can only imagine how difficult it was for her to play Rhoda getting divorced.
+Dennis Nayland Smith That's why Valerie performance is so autentic! You can almost feel the tension and the sufering of Rhoda
Rui Oliveira Yes, you're right. It's a masterpiece of method acting!
So....the "Fans" of Rhoda were bored with the marriage. At the very least they could have had them reconcile eg. the New Years Eve "celebration" at Rhoda's apartment debacle when the two of them kissed on the count down to 1977. Wouldn't that have been a relief to the ones that really loved Rhoda and Joe? Then ratings would have ascended to high levels! …….again
@@zimjun7 I don't think the fans were bored. It was the producers.
@@RuiOliveiraTV *authentic *suffering *Valerie's 🙂
God I love that blouse and coat she’s wearing at the doctor office. So bohemian and hippy❤️
So hated what the writers did with Joe. I never knew which really was his last episode. He just kind of faded away.
Perfect way for a narc to leave. Bye 👋
What was that shit about Rhoda pushing to get a House!!
@The mysterious Miss X Hmm... idk... he did have certain narcessistic traits, if not full blown NPD. (I've studied NPD and I don't just throw that term around lightly.) Joe was very gaslight-y. Always invalidating Rhoda's feelings and acting like his offenses were "no big deal" while he was absolutely breaking her heart and tearing her life to pieces. He also witheld sex, love, and affection from her. Love bombing her and discarding her, like narcs do. He really got off on making her grovel for him. If he wasn't a narcessist, he was definitely some kind of sociopath or sadist. Mr nice guy, my arse!
Things may have been a bit more loose in 1977, but it was never "ethical" (as Dr. Fox describes it), for a physician to date a patient (or even a former patient). Today, doctors would lose their license for doing such a thing.
Today, sessions like that are recorded. That shrink’s career would’ve been over.
Rene Auberjonois / Dr. Fox died during the year when you wrote that comment. RIP.
Sorry. Researching these obscure actors is a hobby for me.
The character actually explicitly acknowledged the ethical breach, and immediately terminated the doctor-patient relationship. So take your faux outrage and shove it up some convenient aperture.
@@ericminch oh come on, it's not that serious.
i often wonder why joe dragged it out... its obvious he didn't want to be married any more.
Joann Ross bc it was in the script
What he really wanted was to be (what we now refer to as) friends with benefits with Rhoda.
Men will drag it out as long you out up with them Cake and eat it ..
its so disrespectful esp since tgey were already married. very degrading. Sex is not the same as love. Heres a guy with a child already. and tic tock Rhoda has none... and hes wasting hier time being selfish. thats the worst thing to do to a women in love
@@shaharazon2449 sounds like daddy hurt you and now you take it out on every man you meet smh typical feminist
@@shaharazon2449 You understand this is just a script for a 40 year old tv show right?
I read that the show's writers thought the audience would prefer to have Rhoda like her former character on the MTM show; single and dealing with the dating game. It was a mistake; audiences didn't go for it and the show was eventually cancelled. The network built up the marriage then had Joe pretty much dump her. David Groh actually got hate mail! I thought the show was still pretty good because of the chemistry between Rhoda and Brenda!
We all wanted Rhoda to have her happily ever after...not get dumped
Why do the writers make rhoda look so desperate.
@The mysterious Miss X Where was she supposed to get that...at the Self Esteem store? She is a character, as they said the writers decided to make her needy again, after her transformation of becoming a confident and happy wife. It was a mistake to change her back, because the audience loved the under dog Rhoda and wanted to see her happy.
@@lisawentworth6831 I think it sent a really important message that marriage doesn't magically instill confidence. In fact, the wrong spouse can really undermine your confidence. It's better to be single than to be married to someone who doesn't want the same things you do in life.
(But it's so stupid that people actually sent the actor hate mail! I hate the character of Joe, but Dave isn't Joe. Ffs.)
@@themaggattack Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. But this is a character, whom we love, who fell in love with someone with the same values. So your theory is bust...we love Rhoda, she loved Joe, the actor got hate mail and did not want to leave the series, so it was the writers fault....not a matter of someone instilling confidence or any hooey. Rhoda, the character, was happy, and we wanted that for her. Stupid writers!
" Hes a psychologist" "oh are you nuts?" haha love carlton
"The Ultimatum" is the 18th episode of Season 3 of "Rhoda". This episode was written by Charlotte Brown, and directed by Tony Mordente. It originally aired on CBS on January 30, 1977. This episode featured the final appearances of David Groh and Mary Tyler Moore. David Groh went on to star in a short-lived CBS series "Another Day" (1978). He first appeared in the series premiere "Joe", which aired on September 9, 1974. Mary Tyler Moore first appeared in the series premiere "Joe", which aired on September 9, 1974, but it was cut from syndicated prints, as well as the Season 1 DVD release.
They never should have written Joe out. The show went downhill from there.
I love Rhoda she is great. 🌟 She is a star
that creepy shrink!
Bye Joe. Gone & forgotten.
At 18:22 : I like how Dr. Fox all of a sudden magically is sitting on the sofa rather than the arm.
Rhoda needs to understand joe does not want to be merrierd
He has the best of both worlds: a wife for when he's lonely, and his own apartment for when he wants to feel like he's single. I actually think a lot of men would find that situation appealing, even more so today..
He should never have asked her to marry him.
@@jaimepardo4023 sadly joe never wanted to marry her. he only wanted to live with her... she pressures him & he gave in.
She asked Joe to marry her not the other way around. She pretty much said if he didn't want to, they should split up.
@@jaimepardo4023, SHE pushed Him to marry her!
What's really sad is that only the actress that played Brenda is alive today. The series was no doubt in trouble because of the writers. They made the mother the only strong character. The father was weak, the daughters were weak, and even Brenda's love interests were weak. The first opportunity that Brenda had at getting married, instead of her being happy she met someone who really loved her and was successful, they had her break up with him quickly. It seems that they enjoyed having female characters be weak and incapable of finding happiness on their own, or with someone who truly loved them. I liked the Joe character he was written in to help Rhoda find her backbone, then they rewrote him to be a narcissist. Actually, it seems that the character just got tired of Rhoda's insecurities. Terrible writing and lack of character development. Someone should have spoken up about the scripts.
I thought Joe got a bad rap as well. I love Rhoda but she was so insecure and desperate that is a turn off.
@@dianamarie4351 Joe telling her she'd lose him unless she improved her confidence was sooo arrogant. Also, it was the fastest way to completely destroy her confidence!
Insecurity may be a turn off, but so is arrogance.
Who cares ?
It's not real -
@@dianamarie4351 plus, the person who loves you is supposed to help you become stronger and overcome your insecurities-not add to them and threaten you.
@@Kat.Evangeline14 The sad thing is, for some people, it actually is real. As real as politics, where they're perfectly happy to accept TV characters with cartoon personalities as representatives, senators, and even presidents.
P.S. When I say "they", I'm only talking about people who are bereft of the capability or inclination for critical thinking.
Rhoda and Joe were great it made Valerie's show different they wanted to make her like Mary but she wasn't.
Wow great seeing Mary Tyler Moore
He is hilarious here! He is Rene Auberjonois. He played "Odo" in Star Trek Depp Space Nine, "Clayton Endicott III" in Benson, and even "Father Mulcahy" in the 1970 movie M*A*S*H! I am a big fan!
I always think of Rene as Clayton Endicott. "BenSON! Why isn't there any coffEE??!!" " I don't know. Juan Valdez's mule died?"
Great in Boston Legal too.
Oh wow, yeah he did play Father Mulcahy in the MASH movie, didn't he? I only think of William Christopher as Father Mulcahy, from the T.V. series.
@@zimjun7 Yeah he did such a good job playing a pompous, white privileged ass on Benson. He really set Robert Guillaume up for some great zingers.
I've only recently started watching more Rhoda. The show is so well-written.
Dr. Fox is hilarious 😂 He totally cracks me up 😆
Joe on the other hand...🙄 What a waste of man..
I wish Rhoda stayed merrierd
To Joe’s defense, I was married less than two years with a baby and my sister needed to stay with us while finishing high school. A year later my father lived with us part time. The crib moved into our bedroom and we had little time together as a couple. My husband never complained but watching this series, brought it all back.
This episode made me angry in so many ways. Why did they make Rhoda such a doormat?
Me too!!!
Aw, writers! Am I right? Can't live with 'em, can't shoot 'em.
I can also tell he didn’t want to get merrierd
jennifer holzma
They actually wrote that into the first season. Joe asked Rhoda to move in with him, but she told him that she couldn't live with him without their being married. So he more or less married her under duress.
@@mthivier YESSSSS!!!! So obvious!
I'm solo excited that I finally got to see the WEDDING!!! I've waited for a lotta years for it and never dreamed there was any chance to see it, voila, it came up on RUclips, after 'these eyes-the guess who'. I'm not askin', just sayin' I'm glad it did!!
just realised brenda does the voice of mardge simpson from the simpsons
But I thought they were on their way to divorce. I mean, he has been dating other women. Obviously he doesn't miss her. Why is she doing that to herself? I don't understand this series.
That was a nice touch at end with Mary . At first I thought it was Brenda and then I was thinking where did she move to , thats a nice apartment .
Boy have times changed. Joe's character didn't want to say 'pissed off' in front of his wife yet Judge Judy says it in front of millions of people now.
And if a doctor kissed his patient now a days, he'd be sued up his PhD arse and lose his license.
The future looks dismal! :)
Some programmes from the 70's have patients smoking in doctor's consulting rooms, while chatting about their condition.
I'm starting to think the writers have made Rhoda just like her mom, nagging all the time, getting riled up about things, etc. She was so laid back in earlier shows, kind of hippy, make love not war when she first was introduced on MTM. Now she goes off all the time. Sad they made her this way, I loved the laid back, chill character Rhoda use to be.
Deb Strout Isn't that how life is though? I know, try as I might to stop it, the regretable aspects of my parents emerge through me too.
Awful job writers!
Rhoda would have worked if she did not marry so fast. She should dated and gotten settled in NYC for season 1. Get married in season 2. Get pregnant in season 3. Have the baby in 4.
I've seen interviews with Valerie Harper & David Groh and they were friends with each other. This show was off-track due to the sh*ty writers..
Doctor Fox is so out of line. You can't hit on patients like that. Rhoda's still mourning the break up of her marriage. Loved this episode because of the focus on dysfunctional relationships.
It's ridiculous. Psychologists who do that lose their license and can never practice psychology again.
Only in the 70's!
RIP Rene Auberjonois
I liked the actor. But Joe the character was such an enormous jerk.
Blame the incompetent writers.
This episode is both funny and sad. It is Joe's last episode. The doctor is hysterical.
Rhoda was the only one acting hysterical.
So Joe wants to put Rhoda on a shelf and just have her wait until HE’s ready to “visit” her. Jerk.
I'm hating this Joe/Rhoda story arc. She's such a doormat. Joe walked out on her after 2 years of marriage now keeps her dangling on a string with one date a week, while he enjoys his bachelor life the rest of the time. Now she wants a bit more attention from HER HUSBAND he throws a fit. What a Jerk!
I know he never really wanted to get married, that was Rhoda, he just wanted them to live together. But that's a red flag right there. He wanted a backdoor for when he got bored. He'd have left her either way. That's why he wanted to live together instead of marriage. An easy out. She needs to serve divorce papers first thing.
It's weird without Ida meddling.
It's Dec 2020, binge-watching Rhoda thru quarantine. I'm way too invested for a 70s TV show!
😄👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼here 2021! Watching for the first time 😝
Blame the writers.
I totally agree I'm 2 invested too lol......shes so angry and so unsettling
I hate what they did with Joe. It's ridiculous.
Rhoda, go, he's a doctor!
If I had been a writer of this show, Rhoda and Joe would have been happily married, and she wouldn't have been so high strung and Joe wouldn't have been a hothead. There could have been adventures made for them as a happy duo, especially in NYC., and she'd have her jobs. Alot of tv sitcom characters are happily married...sitcom shows don't have to be about dating. As much trouble as Lucy Riccardo caused Ricky he always loved her. That doctor played on several sitcoms.
Every week "Rhoda and Joe visit Central Park and feed the ducks. Or sail a toy boat on the pond. Or go skating." Whoopeedoo, the ratings would soar.
What is happening with Rhoda’s wardrobe?
I guess we will never know the true reason they changed the show the deal about how the writers had trouble writing about a married couple doesnt cut it there is another reason what it is I guess only the people actually involved will ever know
It feels like political propaganda to me to support the disintegration of the traditional family.
Wow it’s not a big state secret... the producers felt the audience wanted Rhoda single it’s common knowledge
Read Valerie Harper's "I, Rhoda" she talks about it in her book.
I hate the writer's changed Rhonda so much. Why did they start dressing Rhonda in those loose dresses that made look dowdy.
OMFG, Rhoda! How much of this will you take before you finally Divorce Joe's love-bombing, discarding, breadcrumbing, "lying, cheating, two-timin' double dealin', mean, mistreatin' lovin' heart" ?! (Had to quote a country song to convey the messed up depths of this plot!)
"I guess YOU won, congratulations." Wooooowwww. He really called her bluff and gaslighted TF out of her. WAKE UP, RHODA!!!!!
--
(Yikes, Dr. Fox! 😬 Only in the 70's!)
--
"Are you sick?"
No, he's a psychologist.
"Oh. Are you nuts?"
😂 Carlton!
--
Joe has every single bit of NERVE to expect Rhoda to just remain in limbo forever, in anguish, just waiting by the phone at his beckon call while he dates other people. He doesn't want her, but he doesn't want anyone else to have her either. Wants to have Rhoda's cake and eat random pies, too! And then twist it around on her like this is what SHE wanted?! The nerve! The pomposity!
*"Rhoda, Rhoda. Your life isn't over. You can get along without Joe."*
Rhoda's already been knowing this. She just had to put the words in Mary's mouth to shake herself out of denial.
Maybe if these two dated each other longer they would've realized they weren't right for each other. Then again, maybe not.
That last part with Mary and Rhoda is priceless. It didn't matter that Mary repeated her words. The words were coming from MARY, so you just believed she was right. :-)
What would be the point of Rhoda going to a marriage counselor, anyway? Joe never wanted any part of it. And I am not saying her job is of no importance, but good grief, she often acts like she is Madam Curie or a biologist working on a vaccine. She is a window dresser. Joe never wanted to marry her or anyone else. They should never have married, but she kept pushing it. They really didn't know each other that well when they married. Rhoda sometimes acts like the world revolves around her, barging in and demanding to see that therapist when he had a session going on.
Well, Michelle, you're right in so many ways.
But why push it about Rhoda''s job as a window dresser? Is that so much worse than a guy who tears down buildings?
Shrink was on benson too!
He is probably best known for his role in the Star Trek franchise.
I love Trek, but I've never watched Deep Space Nine. Yet I recognized his character immediately, so you probably would recognize him as well.
He died two years ago. RIP.
Joe: "you mean men"
Rhoda: "maybe" hahaha
Is that a Jackson Pollock in Dr. Fox’s office?!?!
What a Horrible dress that Rhoda is wearing.. it looks like a house dress or what my mom would say, a “mumu”.. A total departure from her usual amazing wardrobe
I like, "some nebish who had a crush on Rhoda."
Who thought that theme song was a good idea?
I agree. And then next season they actually went to some singing lyrics of " da da da daaah da da da da." No wonder the show dropped even further in the ratings.
I liked the psychologist better on Benson... Clayton Endicott the 3rd..Him and Benson always on each other's nerves
What happened to mom and dad Morgenstern this season? As annoying as they could be, it's as though they never existed. And what about Rhoda's work, and her friends? I don't think Rhoda's and Joe's separation and her relationship with Brenda is enough to carry the entire show. Only saving grace is that the writers remembered she had a friend named Mary! You can see with each season how writers struggled to manage Rhoda's identity. It was almost too realistic and deep to be considered a sitcom
I like it better without Nancy Walker, Sally the Air Hostess and even Joe. Brenda, Rhoda, Gary and Benny are fine.
I think that Rhoda, Brenda & company were funny without Ida’s constant presence. It would be a better situation if she visited now and then.
The parents were doing other TV projects this year.
I really didn't like the way the writers took Joe off the show. I thought we were beyond in seeing Rhonda single when she was single on the Mary Taylor Moore show.Ry and her should have gotten married not just being single.
Joe's just a jerk. He married her and now he doesn't want to be married. His vows to her meant nothing. He's just a macho jerk. I didn't see him correctly the first time around with this series.
THey made him act like a jerk because they were writing their divorce into the show. Neither actor wanted their characters to divorce.
Blame the writers.
I guess this was at a time where patient and doctor were ethically allowed to date
Good grief, doesn't Brenda have friends or common sense? Seems like every hour she has a problem she has to talk to Rhoda about. That marriage counselor has played on various TV shows back then. I watched this show new. I think he was a lawyer on Night Court. Joe and Rhoda's marriage sure didn't last long, for all all the hype it had gotten at the start.
I wouldn't have waited 20 minutes, I would have waited 19.
Tell me that my life isn’t over that I can get along without _____.
That doctor what was in? Looks familiar
After the demise of this show, Valerie Harper tried to embark on a film career. Her first attempt, The Last Married Couple in America. How ironic. Sort of shades of this show. She was a friend of Natalie Wood's character. A decent movie.
I don't like that they broke Joe and Rhoda up 😩 and certainly don't like at all the way they had Joe (David Groh) treat Rhoda😩. What was the purpose of them breaking up anyway 🤷. It all ended so quickly and upbrutly. Why did they do that???🤦
PS - I L ☺️ V E Carlton, the doorman!! He cracked me up back in the day and he still does!!! 😅🤣😂😭
01.27.2022
It's a 40 year old tv show.
I left my ex boyfriend cause he was being a royal pain in the butt
Tedious incel troll.
Watching old reruns of this. I remember the show as a kid not this episode though. This doctor is so unethical. What they did to Joe character is terrible. What happened to Ida and Marty? These changes were good for this show. ETA. I meant were not good for the show
Merri Cat Ida and Marty are away on vacation......(or Nancy and Harold have got a job acting on something else, maybe even theatre? Must be a drag for producers when a team of actors get splintered by overlapping diaries!).
wasn’t the same after season two joe my favourite but still a good episode
The show got too dark and too angry toward the last few seasons. I never liked joes character because he was always complaining. I didn’t like seeing Rhoda angry, hurt and unhappy. Rhoda is at her most beautiful when she’s happy, laughing and loving.
I agree!!
Joe is so patronizing. it’s nauseating
Blame the writers.
I just realized that Oprah acts like Mary
Joe was not marriage material. I believe he loved Rhoda but didn’t want to be tied down, he married her because SHE wanted ti be married. He just wasn’t the marrying kind.
Painful to watch.
Loving this episode.
2024❤. Rip, all. Good times!😂
Your life IS Over ❗
Now, you have created the condition for HIM to go out with someone else,
...yep, it will make you CLOSER 🤮
What a jerk Joe was being. He wanted to have his cake and eat it too. He wanted to see Rhoda when he wanted to, then put her in a box until the next time he wanted to see her, knowing she wasn't seeing anyone else. He frankly needed to fish or cut bait. I guess this is his last episode and soon they'll be divorced. Too bad. I really did like them together as a married couple.
The writers had to make him seem like a jerk at this point to justify the split. Neither actor wanted to divorce and it was dumb to not reunite them at some point.
Notice she never mentioned him after season 3. That was strange but at least she wasn't always taking shots at him like Sally about her ex. That got old
@@TanjiTuesday For some reason which I don't agree with, the producers thought Rhoda wasn't as funny as a married woman. I think they ought to have kept Rhoda and Joe married, keep him on the show and eventually have a baby. They could've done all the single woman stuff with Brenda. The actor playing Joe (David something?) didn't want to leave the show, in fact I read that he had just bought a house thinking he had a secure job when they told him Joe was divorcing Rhoda and leaving the show. It was never as good with Rhoda dating idiots like Johnny Venture as it was with her married to Joe. And I loved the bright apartment rather than the darker and more dismal one.
@@dianamarie4351 Rhoda had a bad self image. I think she felt it was her fault that Joe left her, she wasn't everything he wanted or whatever, she had failed. That wasn't it, supposedly Joe just didn't want to be tied down to one woman.
Blame the writers.
I think if this was real life, Joe should have been "Honest" off bat. I don't want to be "married and like this theis why" I think they made Rhoda very clingy and pushing Joe to stay in the marriage. Instead of letting him go.
Nebish. I know that word.
"oh my god did i kiss you ?" uh yeah haha soo funny
I liked Dr. Fox much better than Joe.
Black bell bottom pants AGAIN!!!!
Rhode's guy was cheating,but back then shows are discreet
They r both gone how sad
Pam Namisniak - Joe died?
Like Brenda's long hair.
I loved Rhoda, but i wasn't always in favor of Joe's beliefs and attitudes.
In one episode when Mary came to meet him at the apartment, he was rude to Mary even though Rhoda said this was her best friend.
Funny stuff, but the script is ridiculous. Psychologist does something completely unethical with his patient, and the patient reciprocates unethically? Let me get this straight: Rhoda is desperate to save her marriage; so, of all the things she could up with to deal with the ultimatum, she goes out with her shrink? The star of the show? Not a brilliant idea here.