in DC, those folks often need to choose: paycheck vs morality. not just politicians: fed employees too. I married the "guy the guy counts on." didn't know the phrase at the time. only learned later there's a term for it: "leadership through service." and yes it is. it's the spouse you want.
I relate to that line too much. I find in life I've all too often been the guy the guy relies on. It's not necessarily a *want* to be. It's more like a sense of obligation. It's a hard characteristic to put into words.
"Threats to civil liberties only ever come a few dollars at a time." - beautiful. Always leave it to Toby to be the most profound using the least number of words.
I wouldn't say least number of words. Remember Toby's rant about how there was technically a coup d'etat for an hour and a half when Jed went under anesthesia? Toby said so much, but all of it needed to be said. If I was White House Counsel, I wouldn't have needed to say much more after Toby.
There are times when Toby’s idealism leads him to have his head crammed up his ass, and this is one of them. Josh is absolutely right - they get a guaranteed vote in exchange for a rounding error in the budget.
Charlie awkwardly causing the joint chiefs to request a report from the DOD to impress Zoey and the President taking him out to whack is one of my favorite moments in the entire series. Bartlet hated the French boyfriend as much as Charlie did, and its a beautiful thing.
Later the French boyfriend betrayed her, to the kidnappers. For money. So he could pay off his drug dealer. He was permanently banned from the U.S. but that was about all that could be done because he had diplomatic immunity. If I'm remembering right ...
@@Beckala67True, I mean he took the same tainted drugs he gave her and ended up needing significant medical intervention. That being said, when he woke up and was informed of what had happened, instead of cooperating to save her, he started demanding immunity before he'd tell them anything. So while he wasn't knowingly complicit in the kidnapping, he was still trash more concerned with covering his own ass than helping.
“Threats to civil liberties only ever come a few dollars at a time.” Bartlet turns most often to Toby for a succinct summation of what’s morally right.
Funny how a general study to gather data on the concept of remote prayer, something the overwhelming percentage of Americans (not to mention the majority of the Earth's population) believe to be real is somehow both a threat to their civil liberties and also according to this comment apparently immoral.
Hoynes foreshadowed it a couple episodes earlier, I think. He tells Josh there's no zealot like a convert, and when Josh asks what that means, he says "It means you would have been good in Leo's job."
"Excuse me." "Yes?" "The earth is rotating rapidly on its axis." "...okay, well, good news, keep us posted on that." God, season 4 Bartlet was VINTAGE Bartlet. This is one of his best scenes.
That look that Martin Sheen gives when Josh interrupts him the second time while they are alone in the office...just so good. The man is truly one of the greatest actors of all time, and this role could not have been more perfectly suited to him.
I also remember thinking that Martin Sheen was perfectly cast as the President in the West Wing. Funny thing is I remember also having thought he was perfectly cast as the White House Chief of Staff in the movie "The American President". That is when I began to realize how great an actor he is.
Jed has his own special way of being a father to his "sons and daughters" in the Senior Staff. Then there's his special way of being a father to Josh Lyman.
Yeah, and the way he walked around the desk kind of symbolised that he was talking to Josh as a friend/father figure instead of as his boss/President...
"We've known it's worked for 2000 years.....I didn't know there was data available but Ok". I can accept that we are going through an extraordinary renaissance in the content of television today, but can we agree it started here?
You need to watch more classic television like the Norman Lear shows from the 1970s and 1980s, because television has gone downhill in many ways since. The only renaissance is in how we watch things, not the content.
I love this show so much. And I just figured it out. It’s fast. It’s smart. It’s funny when you don’t expect it to be, and the characters are so damned loveable. And there is so much joy and kindness and respect in every one of them. Reminds of the last place I worked at before I retired. It gives me hope that this can be a better world. Thank you, Mr Sorkin. There nothing as satisfying as machine gun fast, smart as hell dialogue. Watching those old 1930’s comedies on TV kinda set the bar pretty high.
2020 calling: Hell... if we could put the "adults in the room" BACK in the room, I'd elect the entire friggin' cast into the roles they played. IRL. :(
I noticed something about the senior staff. They all have issues, with the exception of Will Bailey, father issues. Josh's father dies during the campaign. Toby's father was part of Murder inc. And Sam had problems with his father as well. And CJ's father suffers from early onset Alzheimer's. Yet, Jed and Leo become surrogate fathers for them over time. Will McAvoy had major issues with his father as well.
Well, Jed had the most problems with his father, and Leo´s father was an alcoholic... Will Bailey kind of have father issues too... inferiority complex maybe. So, bingo.
@@gabrielabagala I never got the idea that Will's dad is problematic. He's a military man. They have their own issues, but it sounds like he worked them out despite a divorce and second marriage in the mix.
@@partyguy101ify Will's father was not just "a" military man, he was the chief general of NATO, in Jed's words, "the only person with a higher title than mine." Being the youngest son of someone who is the most powerful military person in the world, even more so than the president of the USA, should not be an easy task. It can lead to try to become successful and powerful as quickly as possible, so as not to feel "inferior". I guess Sorkin would have left that "door open" to be able to work with this thread in the next season. Same with the half-sister thing. These are threads of potential that writers leave behind to pick up later.
@@gabrielabagala Oh I know General Bailey isn't just "a" military man. I was just saying that Will and his dad don't seem to have any issues that are apparent beyond those the usual military/divorced families have.
Story of my life... You want to be the man, I just want to be the man that the man depends on... It's safer over here lol. And its got a lot less glory, which... Is why I like it
Rebecca Dittman Also, there is a quiet statisfaction of being the man (or indeed, woman ...) that the man counts on; of being his intimate council, yet because you are never in the spotlight like he is, you can offer frank, and honest, advice. Jed relied on Leo; Leo relied on Josh; and Josh relied on Donna. There is a kind of amazing symmetry to that ... Also why I was pissed that they killed off Delo ... sorry ... Mrs. Landingham (ok, granted, the actor that played her was offered a much bigger role, in another show, one she felt she couldn't refuse, but still ...). Jed relied on her more than he would ever let on, hence his famous rant at God, in Latin, at her death. If Leo was his twin brother, then Mrs. Landingham was his older sister. In fact, he knew her a fair bit longer than Leo, which is saying something ...
Jed does bring up a good point, there is definitely a difference between THE GUY and THE GUY THE GUY COUNTS ON. There's a lot of smart aides in politics but it's a big difference between being the guy who has the final say and the guy who advises the guy who has final say.
God, I miss this show. The things that went on here are happening as we are today. The White House and government. Now we have the new show with the Madame Secretary. Nice show..
Philosophy 101, this works for everything not just politics. You fight like hell, to win. But, should you lose, you admit defeat, and regroup and try something else. Sometimes that means moving on entirely. The important part is to fight hard, and fight fair. That's honour, that's integrity.
Pranay Venkatesh Exactly ... After Josh's father died during Jed's intial election campaign, just prior to wining the nomination, Leo became more than Josh's boss; after the leak about Leo being a former drug addict happened, Josh went on the defensive in ways that a devoted son would have done for his equally devoted father. But it was more than that; despite the arguments etc, the senior staff acted more like a family than staff, with Jed as the father, and Leo the uncle. Although I never got to see the last series, the clips I have seen makes Santos seem to be a very smart man; after all, he realised the top man, in perhaps the most important cabinet position, aside from the VP, was Secretary of State, and he needed someone just as smart as him, or more so, to fill it. For him, there was only one name on the list, even if that name was his recently defeated opponent ... Likewise he knew, despite Josh sometimes being uncertain of himself, that he would be the ideal 'man the man counts on'. It harks back to an earlier episode, one set prior to a State of the Union address. Protocol dictates that a person, at Cabinet level, and often a Secretary of state for a particular department, is 'held hostage' at the Residency, during the 'State of the Union', due to both the Executive, and both Houses of the Legislature being there, in case something seriously goes wrong. Iirc, the dialogue between the President and 'the guy' went something like this:- 'Do you have a best friend ...?' 'Yes, Sir ...' 'Is he smarter than you ...?' 'Yes, Sir ...' 'Would you trust him with your life ...?' [Broad smile] 'Yes, Sir ...' 'That is your Chief of Staff ...' [Then a cut away shot to Leo, a whole gamut of emotions passing across his face ...] Santos must have understood that principle; that in picking Josh as his own CoS, he knew Josh was all of the above ...
He means it’s a dumb use of $107,000 (how can you possibly do a medical study of prayer?) and Josh knows it too, he’s just arguing for it because he wants the bill to pass
Whats funny is remote prayer has been shown to be no more effective than not praying. And if you know youre being prayed for you fare worse. So that study was money well spent
@@partyguy101ify That response would just sound like a lie. "Play a straight bat" as they say in cricket is a better strategy: don't engage, but remain polite at the same time. Something like: "well young people generally do that sir", or something similar. Something banal, obvious and a response that refuses to take the bait. It's so inane a kind of response, there's no comeback, it's just a polite refusal to engage in the trap.
When a dad makes a comment about how his own daughter is "growing up very nicely," be very very careful how you respond. Especially if said dad has an army at his disposal.
I'm wondering if that's when the president realized that he couldn't see John becoming his COS if something happened to Leo because Josh would have tried to do things the way he would think Leo would do things and not his way.
Josh needed to sell this as a placebo study. There's some validity to the study that prayer may affect the mindset of the person that could simulate a placebo effect. If the christian faith isnt impossed I dont see any encroachment on any civil liberties.
I like how Bartlet doesn't win all the time. I'm a Democrat and I know that one party should not dominate government, that neither side is 100% right or wrong. Bartlet is a great character for President, but even he isn't a winner all the time. It's supposed to be a system of balances, which I feel we are losing.
Okay, it made for two "comic" moments, but why would any man ask other men whether they think his daughter is growing up nicely? It's just a social disaster waiting to happen.
"My daughter got a new boob job!! Whattaya think?!?" "I really hadn't noticed, sir." "What the hell, man, are you blind!?! I paid a mint for those bouncing bazooms." "Well, if you say so, sir, very impressive!" "You bet they're impressive. If I wasn't her father, I'd ....." (Charlie screams) "Eeeeyaaaauuuuugghh!!"
America throws $800b at it's military every year. Why can't they pay their soldiers a living wage. A new recruit in the Australian army starts on $45k straight out of basic. They get subsidised rent and a bunch of other benefits to make living easier. I uabe mate who was a corporal with multiple roles in the army, he was over $90k per year plus all thr benefits he was entitled to as a member of the ADF.
I don't know what the numbers were when this episode came out, but a new enlistee these days is paid several thousand dollars above the poverty level. The problem is, "poverty" isn't always about how much money you make. Housing alone is a nightmare in the U.S. I can afford to pay rent at my apartment by myself, but the people who own the complex wouldn't rent to me alone unless I made *three times* the rent, which I don't. Ergo, while I may not be technically poor, I "can't afford" housing. There's always some new way for the economy to screw people over.
They had a balanced budget and a surplus until Hafley became speaker and went on the attack. They helped in multiple democratic elections overseas, established a host of new ambassadors, confirmed three supreme court justices, broke a strike that could have crippled the U.S. economy, dealt with at least four major incidents of domestic terrorism and several acts of terrorism on foreign soil, upheld the nuclear test-ban treaty in the face of multiple other countries attempting to violate it and finally inserted the U.S. military into an armed conflict with two nuclear powers in the name of stopping armageddon. I think they got a lot done when you consider all the other million things that happened in this show.
That’s kind of what kept the show going. They accomplished just enough over just the right amount of time to keep us hoping they’d win. If they came in with majorities in both houses of congress and just passed whatever they wanted without a fight it wouldn’t be interesting, and if they were stuck with opposing congresses for the whole 8 years, truly nothing would get done.
I like this episode but the President trashing Josh about a funding a medical study that he doesn't ethically agree with, whereas later they trash the RNC lady for not wanting to fund a NIH study that she doesn't agree (that Ellie Bartlett is working on) with because "politics should dictate medical studies, and who knows what we might learn or unintentionally learn from the free flow of science" guess that doesn't apply here.
A study on "remote prayer as it relates to patient recovery" is not in any way imaginable a medical study. It's a faith-based initiative masquerading as a legitimate scientific study. So, apples and oranges.
But doing the study would have one of three results: 1) it helps, 2) it doesn't help, or 3) the study would show no statistical significance either way, which is almost as "bad" a result as being able to say it doesn't help at all. BTW, studies have been done on exactly this-and when the studies are double or triple blind, they've shown either no effect or no statistically significant effect. Here's what I'd be interested in: we've known for a long time that a patient with a positive outlook toward their recovery tends to do better than one who doesn't. So, would a patient who knows they're the subject of intercessory prayers do better than one who doesn't? A typical study works based on the patient and the physician not knowing whether or not they're in the control group. In this case the patient would know, but I don't know enough about statistics and medical trials to know if it's possible to pull meaningful data from something like that.
almostfm Having failed modules on statistics in general, and medical statistics in particular, I am not in the best of positions to say either way ... That said, in order for any medical treatment to be as unbiased as possible, and to establish true efficacy, the only real method is through the 'double blind' means of testing, with neither the patient, or even the doctor, providing the treatment, knowing which is the placebo, or which is the actual treatment. As you yourself said, from an agnostic point of view, the only way prayer works is by improving the patient's outlook; by knowing there are being supported, even by unknown strangers, that kind of psychological 'lift', improves the patient's outlook; as there is now a clear link between mental and physical health, any improvement in one, may well improve the other, depending on the patient themselves. Thus, as both a scientist, and a Episcopalian, any study in the efficacy of remote prayer, irrespective of fath, falls down in the first instance; there is no means to scientific test, with any degree of accuracy, its efficacy, at least in any meaningful way that could/would pass peer review, and repeatability. How can one measure anything that lays beyond medical statistics, and the scientific method ...? You can't ... In short, there is no statistical means to test the efficacy of something which, by its very nature, is unmeasurable. And although I am a Christian* myself, I rather use that $115k in building a mental health care facility, which is run on public funding, but yet can offer truly top quality care for the poor, whom often are in the greatest need of psychological/psychiatric care ... [*= yes, I do believe in prayer, especially as a means to commune with the Devine. Whether or not prayer actually helps people get better lays beyond me, but for my part, prayer, as a means of consoling, and comforting, does help ...]
You do realize the original predates HD programming by quite a few years, yes? Season 1 started in 1999, if I recall correctly. So yeah, the video quality isnt that great compared to now. So what?
"I go for kiss ass today and the ball goes in the gutter." I think we can all relate to that.
"I want to be the guy. You want to be the guy the guy counts on." LOVE that line.
Foreshadowing santos
in DC, those folks often need to choose: paycheck vs morality. not just politicians: fed employees too.
I married the "guy the guy counts on." didn't know the phrase at the time. only learned later there's a term for it: "leadership through service." and yes it is.
it's the spouse you want.
I want to be the guy the guy counts on
Live by that line - Every good leader needs someone they can count on.
I relate to that line too much. I find in life I've all too often been the guy the guy relies on. It's not necessarily a *want* to be. It's more like a sense of obligation. It's a hard characteristic to put into words.
"My Daughter is growing up nicely"
"Man, I'll say"
Wrong answer.
There are about the same number of good answers to that question as "Do I look fat in this dress?"
"Threats to civil liberties only ever come a few dollars at a time." - beautiful. Always leave it to Toby to be the most profound using the least number of words.
geniusfollower Fewest
geniusfollower using the fewest words - four, to your six, and better English
@@porcospino289 What a lovable jerk HAHA! Quite correct.
I wouldn't say least number of words. Remember Toby's rant about how there was technically a coup d'etat for an hour and a half when Jed went under anesthesia? Toby said so much, but all of it needed to be said. If I was White House Counsel, I wouldn't have needed to say much more after Toby.
There are times when Toby’s idealism leads him to have his head crammed up his ass, and this is one of them. Josh is absolutely right - they get a guaranteed vote in exchange for a rounding error in the budget.
" wait a minute. You guys didn't come in here to tell me something funny?"
"Three of us did." Lol
Charlie awkwardly causing the joint chiefs to request a report from the DOD to impress Zoey and the President taking him out to whack is one of my favorite moments in the entire series. Bartlet hated the French boyfriend as much as Charlie did, and its a beautiful thing.
Later the French boyfriend betrayed her, to the kidnappers. For money. So he could pay off his drug dealer.
He was permanently banned from the U.S. but that was about all that could be done because he had diplomatic immunity.
If I'm remembering right ...
@@veralenora7368 I thought he was just naive about it. He didn't even realize he was drugged.
@@Beckala67True, I mean he took the same tainted drugs he gave her and ended up needing significant medical intervention.
That being said, when he woke up and was informed of what had happened, instead of cooperating to save her, he started demanding immunity before he'd tell them anything. So while he wasn't knowingly complicit in the kidnapping, he was still trash more concerned with covering his own ass than helping.
"Maxine...."
"That's you"
“Threats to civil liberties only ever come a few dollars at a time.”
Bartlet turns most often to Toby for a succinct summation of what’s morally right.
head of communications for a reason
Funny how a general study to gather data on the concept of remote prayer, something the overwhelming percentage of Americans (not to mention the majority of the Earth's population) believe to be real is somehow both a threat to their civil liberties and also according to this comment apparently immoral.
The foreshadowing from this scene. President Bartlett told Josh exactly who he is & Josh proved it in the final season.
Did Josh fuck up in the final season or something?
@@ryanoconnell1905 , No, he became Santos's chief of staff, the guy Santos counts on.
Hoynes foreshadowed it a couple episodes earlier, I think. He tells Josh there's no zealot like a convert, and when Josh asks what that means, he says "It means you would have been good in Leo's job."
"Excuse me."
"Yes?"
"The earth is rotating rapidly on its axis."
"...okay, well, good news, keep us posted on that."
God, season 4 Bartlet was VINTAGE Bartlet. This is one of his best scenes.
A boss you can safely talk to on the level.
Not so sure that's still true.
liberty Ann what isn't true?
That look that Martin Sheen gives when Josh interrupts him the second time while they are alone in the office...just so good. The man is truly one of the greatest actors of all time, and this role could not have been more perfectly suited to him.
It’s an interesting look. I wonder if it was him swallowing anger.
😢r er fns r 😢 FF
I also remember thinking that Martin Sheen was perfectly cast as the President in the West Wing. Funny thing is I remember also having thought he was perfectly cast as the White House Chief of Staff in the movie "The American President". That is when I began to realize how great an actor he is.
"You know I go for kiss ass today and the ball rolls in the gutter."
Feel your pain there Josh. Some days you can't win for losing. XD
Jed has his own special way of being a father to his "sons and daughters" in the Senior Staff.
Then there's his special way of being a father to Josh Lyman.
Yeah, and the way he walked around the desk kind of symbolised that he was talking to Josh as a friend/father figure instead of as his boss/President...
The day Josh's farther died, Jed adopted him.
@@faolan1686 "What was Josh Lyman, a warning shot? That was my son... what have I ever done to yours except praise his glory and praise his name?"
"I want to be The Guy. You want to be the guy The Guy counts on."
I'm so like Josh.
same here
There’s a security in being a 2nd in command. You get most of the power with less of the responsibilities.
Jed: "Boy Zoey's growing up nicely isn't she?"
Charlie: "Yes she is."
Jed: "A-hah! You're funny!"
*Later*
Jed: "Hey Zoey's growing up very nicely isn't she?"
Josh: "Man I'll say."
Jed: *Get out.*
Actually Bartlet's reaction to both replies was equally disapproving.
Daniel Dickson amao josh is like in his 40s
She was hot but damn look at her now...
"We've known it's worked for 2000 years.....I didn't know there was data available but Ok". I can accept that we are going through an extraordinary renaissance in the content of television today, but can we agree it started here?
No.
You need to watch more classic television like the Norman Lear shows from the 1970s and 1980s, because television has gone downhill in many ways since. The only renaissance is in how we watch things, not the content.
except the data shows it has no effect, and if the subject knows you're praying for them it actually makes things worse
You know I go for kiss-ass today and the ball goes in the gutter.
So so soooo many awesome lines from this show!!
"You know, I go for kiss ass today and the ball goes in the gutter." Mama told me there'd be days like this.
Josh has his own special brand of awkward.
I wish everyday we had a President like him
Aaron Sorkin is a genius.
I need to get out the DVDs. I need a vacation from the present.
liberty Ann use Netflix
It’s June 2020. Dude you have no idea.
Note to self. Never overdo the praise of the presidents daughter
That scene is comedy gold in my opinion.
I love this show so much. And I just figured it out. It’s fast. It’s smart. It’s funny when you don’t expect it to be, and the characters are so damned loveable. And there is so much joy and kindness and respect in every one of them. Reminds of the last place I worked at before I retired. It gives me hope that this can be a better world. Thank you, Mr Sorkin. There nothing as satisfying as machine gun fast, smart as hell dialogue. Watching those old 1930’s comedies on TV kinda set the bar pretty high.
Most well written show EVER.
let's have a HR resolution, or better an executive order. Re-start the West Wing.
2020 calling: Hell... if we could put the "adults in the room" BACK in the room, I'd elect the entire friggin' cast into the roles they played. IRL.
:(
@@jimg5669 The cast of the show would be better than the current administration, I agree.
I noticed something about the senior staff. They all have issues, with the exception of Will Bailey, father issues. Josh's father dies during the campaign. Toby's father was part of Murder inc. And Sam had problems with his father as well. And CJ's father suffers from early onset Alzheimer's. Yet, Jed and Leo become surrogate fathers for them over time.
Will McAvoy had major issues with his father as well.
Well, Jed had the most problems with his father, and Leo´s father was an alcoholic...
Will Bailey kind of have father issues too... inferiority complex maybe.
So, bingo.
@@gabrielabagala I never got the idea that Will's dad is problematic. He's a military man. They have their own issues, but it sounds like he worked them out despite a divorce and second marriage in the mix.
@@partyguy101ify Will's father was not just "a" military man, he was the chief general of NATO, in Jed's words, "the only person with a higher title than mine." Being the youngest son of someone who is the most powerful military person in the world, even more so than the president of the USA, should not be an easy task. It can lead to try to become successful and powerful as quickly as possible, so as not to feel "inferior".
I guess Sorkin would have left that "door open" to be able to work with this thread in the next season.
Same with the half-sister thing. These are threads of potential that writers leave behind to pick up later.
@@gabrielabagala Oh I know General Bailey isn't just "a" military man. I was just saying that Will and his dad don't seem to have any issues that are apparent beyond those the usual military/divorced families have.
4:39 That's hilarious!
Story of my life... You want to be the man, I just want to be the man that the man depends on... It's safer over here lol. And its got a lot less glory, which... Is why I like it
Rebecca Dittman
Also, there is a quiet statisfaction of being the man (or indeed, woman ...) that the man counts on; of being his intimate council, yet because you are never in the spotlight like he is, you can offer frank, and honest, advice.
Jed relied on Leo; Leo relied on Josh; and Josh relied on Donna. There is a kind of amazing symmetry to that ...
Also why I was pissed that they killed off Delo ... sorry ... Mrs. Landingham (ok, granted, the actor that played her was offered a much bigger role, in another show, one she felt she couldn't refuse, but still ...). Jed relied on her more than he would ever let on, hence his famous rant at God, in Latin, at her death. If Leo was his twin brother, then Mrs. Landingham was his older sister. In fact, he knew her a fair bit longer than Leo, which is saying something ...
Jed does bring up a good point, there is definitely a difference between THE GUY and THE GUY THE GUY COUNTS ON. There's a lot of smart aides in politics but it's a big difference between being the guy who has the final say and the guy who advises the guy who has final say.
Its the Temptations I love you guys! haha
God, I miss this show. The things that went on here are happening as we are today. The White House and government. Now we have the new show with the Madame Secretary. Nice show..
"For an RV?"
I would have called them The Fantastic Four
Philosophy 101, this works for everything not just politics. You fight like hell, to win. But, should you lose, you admit defeat, and regroup and try something else. Sometimes that means moving on entirely. The important part is to fight hard, and fight fair. That's honour, that's integrity.
"You wanna be the guy the guy counts on." Till the end....
Pranay Venkatesh
'Thanks, Boss ...' ...
I like to think that not only was that towards Leo, but John Spencer too ...
I believe this attitude inspired Josh to be chief of staff and "the guy the guy counts on" to Santos later in the series as well....
Pranay Venkatesh
Exactly ...
After Josh's father died during Jed's intial election campaign, just prior to wining the nomination, Leo became more than Josh's boss; after the leak about Leo being a former drug addict happened, Josh went on the defensive in ways that a devoted son would have done for his equally devoted father. But it was more than that; despite the arguments etc, the senior staff acted more like a family than staff, with Jed as the father, and Leo the uncle.
Although I never got to see the last series, the clips I have seen makes Santos seem to be a very smart man; after all, he realised the top man, in perhaps the most important cabinet position, aside from the VP, was Secretary of State, and he needed someone just as smart as him, or more so, to fill it. For him, there was only one name on the list, even if that name was his recently defeated opponent ...
Likewise he knew, despite Josh sometimes being uncertain of himself, that he would be the ideal 'man the man counts on'.
It harks back to an earlier episode, one set prior to a State of the Union address. Protocol dictates that a person, at Cabinet level, and often a Secretary of state for a particular department, is 'held hostage' at the Residency, during the 'State of the Union', due to both the Executive, and both Houses of the Legislature being there, in case something seriously goes wrong. Iirc, the dialogue between the President and 'the guy' went something like this:-
'Do you have a best friend ...?'
'Yes, Sir ...'
'Is he smarter than you ...?'
'Yes, Sir ...'
'Would you trust him with your life ...?'
[Broad smile] 'Yes, Sir ...'
'That is your Chief of Staff ...'
[Then a cut away shot to Leo, a whole gamut of emotions passing across his face ...]
Santos must have understood that principle; that in picking Josh as his own CoS, he knew Josh was all of the above ...
4:39 That is so funny!
You want to be the guy the guy counts on.
i love Josh
"I don't care if they care. I care." Yeah. That's what you want to hear from an elected official that is sent to represent the people.
He means it’s a dumb use of $107,000 (how can you possibly do a medical study of prayer?) and Josh knows it too, he’s just arguing for it because he wants the bill to pass
Sometimes you’re damned if you do, and you’re damned if you don’t even in the west wing.
Whats funny is remote prayer has been shown to be no more effective than not praying. And if you know youre being prayed for you fare worse.
So that study was money well spent
Rule one of dads with daughters: if dad says his daughter is "growing up nicely." This is bait. Can your enthusiasm when answering.
"I wouldn't know, sir," in deadpan is the correct answer.
@@partyguy101ify: No, just say, "Yes, she looks very nice," in a very neutral tone. And do not add another word.
@@partyguy101ify That response would just sound like a lie. "Play a straight bat" as they say in cricket is a better strategy: don't engage, but remain polite at the same time. Something like: "well young people generally do that sir", or something similar. Something banal, obvious and a response that refuses to take the bait. It's so inane a kind of response, there's no comeback, it's just a polite refusal to engage in the trap.
you wanna be the guy the guy counts on
When a dad makes a comment about how his own daughter is "growing up very nicely," be very very careful how you respond. Especially if said dad has an army at his disposal.
I'm wondering if that's when the president realized that he couldn't see John becoming his COS if something happened to Leo because Josh would have tried to do things the way he would think Leo would do things and not his way.
Josh needed to sell this as a placebo study. There's some validity to the study that prayer may affect the mindset of the person that could simulate a placebo effect. If the christian faith isnt impossed I dont see any encroachment on any civil liberties.
I like how Bartlet doesn't win all the time. I'm a Democrat and I know that one party should not dominate government, that neither side is 100% right or wrong. Bartlet is a great character for President, but even he isn't a winner all the time. It's supposed to be a system of balances, which I feel we are losing.
True.. no one is right all the time
Okay, it made for two "comic" moments, but why would any man ask other men whether they think his daughter is growing up nicely? It's just a social disaster waiting to happen.
+PluralArch Bartlet's just trolling them. He knows how they'll automatically react, and he just wants to make that face at them when they do.
+PluralArch I howl like a madman whenever I see Charlie's reaction, SO perfectly the-opposite-of-what-he-wanted.
+antourte1 It's always fun when Bartlet trolls them.
Dude, the result he got was exactly the result he was looking for. He's testing around to see who might be horndogging after Zoe.
Oddly enough, that's exactly where he
Ended up as Matt Santos'chief
Can you imagine the Stable Genius ever having a conversation like this?
Yeah, me neither.
"My daughter got a new boob job!! Whattaya think?!?"
"I really hadn't noticed, sir."
"What the hell, man, are you blind!?! I paid a mint for those bouncing bazooms."
"Well, if you say so, sir, very impressive!"
"You bet they're impressive. If I wasn't her father, I'd ....."
(Charlie screams) "Eeeeyaaaauuuuugghh!!"
America throws $800b at it's military every year. Why can't they pay their soldiers a living wage. A new recruit in the Australian army starts on $45k straight out of basic. They get subsidised rent and a bunch of other benefits to make living easier. I uabe mate who was a corporal with multiple roles in the army, he was over $90k per year plus all thr benefits he was entitled to as a member of the ADF.
Crayons aren't that expensive, especially if you go for generics instead of Crayola.
I don't know what the numbers were when this episode came out, but a new enlistee these days is paid several thousand dollars above the poverty level. The problem is, "poverty" isn't always about how much money you make. Housing alone is a nightmare in the U.S. I can afford to pay rent at my apartment by myself, but the people who own the complex wouldn't rent to me alone unless I made *three times* the rent, which I don't. Ergo, while I may not be technically poor, I "can't afford" housing. There's always some new way for the economy to screw people over.
When you’re dating the boss’s daughter.....
Maxine.
Why was Josh called Maxine?
Can someone explain to me what “Maxine” is a reference too? Lol
@Ever All this time, I thought it was a reference to the Andrews sisters: LaVerne, Maxine and Patty
For an RV whats he want?
For an RV?
Love his little quips
this is how I imagine all senior staff meetings with trump goes like, right??
Yeah, sure, all the time....
i love this show, but the more i rewatch it the more you realise how little this administration accomplished in 8 years.
They had a balanced budget and a surplus until Hafley became speaker and went on the attack. They helped in multiple democratic elections overseas, established a host of new ambassadors, confirmed three supreme court justices, broke a strike that could have crippled the U.S. economy, dealt with at least four major incidents of domestic terrorism and several acts of terrorism on foreign soil, upheld the nuclear test-ban treaty in the face of multiple other countries attempting to violate it and finally inserted the U.S. military into an armed conflict with two nuclear powers in the name of stopping armageddon.
I think they got a lot done when you consider all the other million things that happened in this show.
That’s kind of what kept the show going. They accomplished just enough over just the right amount of time to keep us hoping they’d win. If they came in with majorities in both houses of congress and just passed whatever they wanted without a fight it wouldn’t be interesting, and if they were stuck with opposing congresses for the whole 8 years, truly nothing would get done.
I like this episode but the President trashing Josh about a funding a medical study that he doesn't ethically agree with, whereas later they trash the RNC lady for not wanting to fund a NIH study that she doesn't agree (that Ellie Bartlett is working on) with because "politics should dictate medical studies, and who knows what we might learn or unintentionally learn from the free flow of science" guess that doesn't apply here.
A study on "remote prayer as it relates to patient recovery" is not in any way imaginable a medical study. It's a faith-based initiative masquerading as a legitimate scientific study. So, apples and oranges.
But doing the study would have one of three results: 1) it helps, 2) it doesn't help, or 3) the study would show no statistical significance either way, which is almost as "bad" a result as being able to say it doesn't help at all.
BTW, studies have been done on exactly this-and when the studies are double or triple blind, they've shown either no effect or no statistically significant effect.
Here's what I'd be interested in: we've known for a long time that a patient with a positive outlook toward their recovery tends to do better than one who doesn't. So, would a patient who knows they're the subject of intercessory prayers do better than one who doesn't? A typical study works based on the patient and the physician not knowing whether or not they're in the control group. In this case the patient would know, but I don't know enough about statistics and medical trials to know if it's possible to pull meaningful data from something like that.
almostfm
Having failed modules on statistics in general, and medical statistics in particular, I am not in the best of positions to say either way ...
That said, in order for any medical treatment to be as unbiased as possible, and to establish true efficacy, the only real method is through the 'double blind' means of testing, with neither the patient, or even the doctor, providing the treatment, knowing which is the placebo, or which is the actual treatment. As you yourself said, from an agnostic point of view, the only way prayer works is by improving the patient's outlook; by knowing there are being supported, even by unknown strangers, that kind of psychological 'lift', improves the patient's outlook; as there is now a clear link between mental and physical health, any improvement in one, may well improve the other, depending on the patient themselves.
Thus, as both a scientist, and a Episcopalian, any study in the efficacy of remote prayer, irrespective of fath, falls down in the first instance; there is no means to scientific test, with any degree of accuracy, its efficacy, at least in any meaningful way that could/would pass peer review, and repeatability. How can one measure anything that lays beyond medical statistics, and the scientific method ...? You can't ...
In short, there is no statistical means to test the efficacy of something which, by its very nature, is unmeasurable. And although I am a Christian* myself, I rather use that $115k in building a mental health care facility, which is run on public funding, but yet can offer truly top quality care for the poor, whom often are in the greatest need of psychological/psychiatric care ...
[*= yes, I do believe in prayer, especially as a means to commune with the Devine. Whether or not prayer actually helps people get better lays beyond me, but for my part, prayer, as a means of consoling, and comforting, does help ...]
THUMBS DOWN for poor video quality! Don't encourage this! Regardless of how compelling the subject is, this garbage should not have been posted.
You do realize the original predates HD programming by quite a few years, yes? Season 1 started in 1999, if I recall correctly. So yeah, the video quality isnt that great compared to now. So what?
Don't watch. 🤷🏾♀️