What Makes Payday 2 Better than Payday 3?
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- Опубликовано: 5 ноя 2023
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I just want to give a big shoutout to new Patrons Zero (Mean), Apokebasha (Infamous) and Alex Hansen (Infamous). I’m currently overhauling the outro so expect to be added ASAP!
After years of milking speculation content, here's a real twist on the formula. It's not a video I ever anticipated making!
This video was brought to you thanks to the generous support from the guys over at Patreon: / kknowley
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For me, one of the biggest symptoms of the loss of UI identity is the Assault Indicator. In Payday 1, it was menacing and gritty. In Payday 2, it was loud and iconic. In Payday 3... it's some text on a backdrop shadow. No animation, no flare, nothing. You couldn't get more boring if you tried.
Literally. Even in the beta it was better somehow. There it was flashing and tilted text, I remember even then I thought it looked mundane, then they somehow made it worse.
Yeah, it's a really weird choice. Both assault banners are absolutely iconic (especially PD2's), and then to revert to something that's completely unremarkable. Then again, all of the UI design seems really generic, like it's a placeholder not completed yet.
I still don’t understand why they did that. They could’ve just used the old one along with using cards for skills and I wouldn’t complain.
comic sans
That banner in the corner when the beat dropped
Iconic
It was just so sad to see them release Payday 3 in a state that felt like a inferior version to PD2. Really killed my entire mood to engage with it.
Have you seen steam charts? PD3 IS on lifeline support with only 2k players playing it. Meanwhile pd2 isn't a dead game and has 20k people on it
@@lemonsvcuts56 i think many people havent bought pd3 yet because its not worth it, if it costed $10 it would still be better to buy pd2 until probably 1 or 2 years from now
People forget payday 2 wasnt exactly great on launch. I mean old stockholm syndrome aced was in the game for years...oh boy one ammo box if an UNTIED civilian is near me when i get downed...
Its been like a decade since PD2 came out. Standards have changed. PD3 didnt launch with enough content
@@everythingsalright1121this. Did anyone seriously expect payday 3 a game that was made on an extremely limited budget with a very small team equal to a game that had a decade of work and a once huge team to work on it?
@@thechugg4372 yeah because it was a direct sequel to said game
Watching this genuinely makes me feel like we bought into an early access game without realising.
Facts 💯💯
ive seen early access games 10x more polished than this
Idk what you mean payday 2 sucked ass for like 2 years after it was released. This isn't a new starbreeze problem lol
@@vudgnudg2214 But starbreeze shouldve learned from that time, not repeated their mistakes, its one of the main points of this video, its even in the thumbnail.
welcome to modern gaming
Never thought I’d miss the cards system from payday 2, but there’s just something much better than just grinding out weapon levels, also the current progression system needs to go asap
For me, the main thing that would make it better is that in payday 2, you actually get xp for doing anything, instead of very specific tasks that end up stagnating.
With the core gameplay so good, I like to describe Payday 3 like this.
It's like getting a really good burger, absolutely delicious. But then for the fries, they decided to give you a raw potato and swamp water as the drink.
the swamp water really hits home
I wouldn’t even give them “a really good burger” part as a compliment. It’s more like the plate is nice and the fries are decent and that’s as far as I would go with the analogy lol. The game (burger) has no true SPIRIT like payday 2.
At least you could just get a new drink and fries elsewhere in that situation.
With how little depth there is to build crafting or the other parts of pd3 gameplay I think you’re giving it too much justice
I think it's more like, you order the burger and are given meatloaf. While both ground beef, meatloaf is no burger. But your server *insists* this is a burger. They can't tell you how it is, but they *insist* it is. You obviously aren't dumb, so you ask again, and they respond with "this is the new burger, it doesn't need all the things the old burger had, like a bun, condiments, or toppings. Our new burger is so much better." Then stare in disbelief on how someone could be so disingenuous for money.
I think what's most baffling is that it feels like the developers wanted to try out new things but then always immediately threw out their previous successes.
Want to make the stats more approachable without walls of numbers? Make them bars (but then give the option in the settings or by pressing a button to bring the statgasm back). Want to have a curated story experience by going heist by heist? Make it a horizontal scrollbar with cutscenes in between (but only up to the first completion of each heist or again with the option to toggle the menu style). Want to innovate on progression? Introduce challenges to have people mix up gameplay (but don't center all progression around it, make their rewards exp boosts or unlocks for specific heist multipliers or something). The list goes on and on. The regression is simply baffling. And don't bring up increased dev time. Yes, it would have increased effort, but this is only menu design we are talking about here, these changes are a drop in a bucket in comparison to the larger problems the devs have to address (content).
I'm a dev and I really feel the laziness of the development team when I'm playing. It's actually a feeling I've never had that much. Also, why isn't anybody talking about the horrible cosmetics and appearance that you can unlock? Reaching level 150 (which is a pain is the ***), rewards you with an ugly pair of gloves??? Along with all the suits and outfits that are basically an ugly reskin each time.
You simply never feel rewarded, but I think we all know that in a year or so, payday 3 will be a masterpiece. At least, I hope.
I wouldn’t measure it in time as much as in released DLCs. I got into payday 2 quite late, but otherwise I wouldn’t bother. Maybe I will buy PD3 in next 3 or 5 years, because developers felt like its enough to keep player base and milk them with slow upgrades
Triple A games NEED to start delaying and playtesting more, the fact that all of these simple issues aren't addressed at launch is beyond me.
If overkill doesn't work double overtime on this the game will lose almost all of it's players who likely won't return. Damn shame.
My biggest issue outside of online only and progression is the weapon customization pd2's was absolutely amazing and made each weapon feel unique even if I have 2 or 3 other one in my collection having a high damage, and a stealth, version.
i feel like half the weapons were just reskins with pretty much the same modifications and stats, within the rifle category at least which is what i was mostly using, but yeah weapon variety in pd3 is worse than pd2, if pd2 had 10% of its current arsenal available
Pd2 weapons are trash man
@@xthijsbos6811atleast they dont got some hidden stat that the game refuses to tell us about
You're joking right? The attachments in pd2 are just 100% number crunching so you can hit the breakpoints. Some of the attachments necessary for builds require pure RNG to drop from cards and/or DLC (At least at the time I was playing, maybe still does).
Half the weapons in pd2 are so laughably similar, major difference is perhaps 1 or 2 mag capacity and -1/+1 accuracy/recoil. Shit was massively bloated.
@welkingunther4298 I'm not joking, I just enjoy thinking with my guns without caring about breakpoints, the core of putting attachments onto the weapons, and having unique attachments is what I enjoy, getting the attachments is a problem early game but stops once you have enough continental coins
I would also add design of objectives to the list, payday 2 objectives were pretty creative and varied between loud and stealth. In 3 it's a big stepback, having to thermite a door for a key card on loud or standing in random circles around the map so shade can have a better wifi, it's like they completely threw away everything that was learned during the development of the previous games
Agreed, some of the later heists in Payday 2 were more advanced than this. So if the game was rushed in the last 2 years as people are suggesting, it's strange how these heists were made by the same studio.
I think instead of the cards at the end, a system like in Vermintide would be best, with the amount of loot secured increasing the potential loot quality.
Take Vermintide's characters banter too while we're at it, there's even less voice lines interactions between the heisters in Payday 3 than 2, which was already lackluster.
@@maboilaurence8227 That would require a lot of time and money. Easier said than done. The dedication the vermintide VA's put into their work to the point where even after thousands of hours, the banter in vermintide never gets old and sometimes people haven't heard certain lines yet is paramount to its success.
@@welkingunther4298Hell, at this point a simple "Are you okay Wolf" "All good, thanks for asking Dallas" after an assault would already be a major improvement, they don't even need to go all out.
@@maboilaurence8227 ... I would probably still ask for quite a bit more. There's no way in hell would just adding that for the rest of the game would change the way the banter feels in any appreciable way. If they're going to ask the VA's to come in again for lines, they should go all out or else it's quite literally a waste of time/money imo because it will eventually get stale after 10-20 hours of gameplay.
Only vermintide does horde game banter well.
@welkingunther4298 Vermintide has only 5 characters, so creating banter between each pair is FAR easier. I don't disagree with you about the game being way too silent, but I don't expect them to do it on a Vermintide level. Something in between, like what @maboilaurence8227 said, would probably be it.
I know it was goofy and unrealistic but I honestly miss Shotgun launching, the amount of good laughs me and my friends had over a body landing in a weird way is a big number. We have so many more tools in Stealth now but I would love to see the return of it.
I agree with everything you said, hope the Devs see this and truly understand what we want
PD: can't wait for a "Can you beat Payday 3's menus while having fun?"
I bet UI update will be part of some dlc. This game is it this state on purpose
And that's when Boris Johnson said "United Kingdom, let's do this."
I don't want kicking to be only vote kicking, I would atleast like a lobby option where the owner has control over both who is in the heist and what heist is being picked because that made everyone have the same direction and if they didn't vibe they could just leave and find a new lobby.
That assumes we get peer 2 peer back though, since currently we don't "own" the lobbies, the server does. Though yes, I agree
Another thing missing I feel is heist variations, the RNG spawns and layouts. Part of why 2 is so replayable is because of on top of being able to change objectives from pre-planning, you can at times have to change how you approach a heist every time you play it. Sometimes you need to take the all of bank heist or sometimes you can just take the back area and sneak around. The variations that decide when, where, and how I'll go through a heist and sometimes I need to adjust for that change. While nowhere near the sandbox toolkit of something like the Hitman games there's still enough variation to make me change up my approach and paths to heists like big oil, big bank, golden grin, hox breakout, election day, watchdogs, yacht heist, Brooklyn 10/10, boiling point, murky station, birth of sky, beneath the mountain and etc. Not every heist is all that varied but a lot of early heists are.
Payday 3 does have variations lol
@@Asterious_ compare gold and sharke to big bank. or any heist from that era to any in 3. The difference is palpable.
The devs addressed this issue in a stream I think. In a future patch they're gonna add more RNG variation to the heists
I think it has too much variations. It makes speedrunning a nightmare. Most of the time you have to keep restarting for like an hour just to get the perfect spawn to speedrun it. I wish we could choose the spawns
@@GansitooLive PD3 has fixed seed per session so that isnt an issue (not that it has that many variations to begin with). Personally find that annoying for long term variety and don't really think players should only be practicing the one route all the time but to each their own. Also PD2 speedrunning allows the use of RNG modifier for that very reason.
The thing is this makes every playthrough practically the same. The exact same routes. the exact same objectives. It has no spice no flavor, you've played it once you've already played it a million times. This is further exacerbated by the minimal build variety. I'll take the occasional bad spawn over a complete and utter lack of variety.
I think visible Bot health bars would be a nice addition. Being able to foresee and plan for when your mindless meatshields go down.
Keep in mind winter DLC is coming up, i honestly dont know if theyll put all the needed features in that one, delay it or release it with minor fixes and rather as a content update
DLC better come out soon, shit low key boring now
@@trialfaillowkey? Got real boring under 2 weeks after launch..
They won't
@@C0rnern I know, I’d figure I’d say that cause some people will cry about it
There is some changes to UI (for instance, it won't just be one long line when wanting to make a new heist)
but for the most part everything else will be the same.
Most of these features were made a while ago, and the changes will take time to make
I started playing payday 2 in 2022 after watching your videos and i really enojyed the game at the time it was a great experience and with its pool of content that was already out at that point it was a blast to play and is my 2nd most played game with 329.5 hours into it on PC and i was excited to jump into payday 3 once it got announced and then later released (I got the gold version)
Payday 3's launch for gold/silver edition for me was great since it was a refresh of payday 2 now in a better engine but once the early ended i stoped playing the game since i lost intrest in the game and the servers becomeing unuseble was not helping and in the end i only played 21.2 hours and i am bummed out that the launch was a fallure.
At this point i am waiting for some major content and not just fixes and i really hope PD3 can become what it was ment to be.
Lets hope payday 3 becomes the game it was ment to be
it will, it just came out brother give it some time, all games have their moment, they will get it right.
It'll be soon don't worry :)
talking like...possibly by end of month to mid december
holy shit man - use some punctuation, PLEASES
PD3 is almost a dead game by now. They won’t be able to fix it. Starbreeze is just a bad Studio. They fucked up every game after PD2 and rushed there core ip for fast money. They won’t recover from this one.
@@Lulsfurcupcake They got some good workers over there.
I'm still legitimately surprised that most of the praised changes to pd2 weren't in pd3 at launch
That's my biggest complaint.
I understand we arent getting as much content as pd2 at launch. But the fact pd2 had over 10 years of changes that they could learn from but instead they decided to reinvent the wheel I'm mad.
Because it requires time and money. And clearly they were rushed and decided it was worth risking outrage for quick, initial cash while they worked on the game, treating it as a trashy live service modern game (profitable, but risky). It's obvious the game is in its infacy, the HUD/UI is basically an unreal template similar to COD. There's already screenshots out there comparing it to be a near 1:1.
They will add these things as "QoL" and the fans stupid enough to forgive and forget about pd2 will probably do the same for pd3. Which is why I think they tried this calculated risk because despite the 2015 crimefest, pd2 ends up being simped over. They think they can do it again and are banking on consumers have shit attention span and outrage lasting only a few months.
@@welkingunther4298 To support this, just look at update 237 for Payday 2. Absolute disaster, yet Sbz had been forgiven almost instantly, mere months afterwards.
Man I just want a game to come out with a decent amount of content more than once or twice a year.
Everything drops like it was started being made 6 or 7 months ago, and takes a year or so before the games actually ready.
It truely feels like a different company was hired to make the game.
Back before online updating was a thing and everything was on disc or cartridge, the game you got was the game you got and that forced developers to make the best games that they could make in the most solid and bugfree possible state. Now that studios can just promise to have the game fixed and release it in whatever state that they want it has made them complacent and allowed incompetent decisionmaking to be common.
@@friendlyneighborhoodcrusad4242 man i wish i had those years
You can still play those old gold games by buying them from ebay (or other reseller market) or through emulation, but yeah i too wish i got to experience that time.
The worst decision they made (personally) that they took inspiration from COD at least for gameplay, ui and matchmaking.
this isnt MW2 where you leave the lobby right after a game, Payday 2 keeps you in a lobby until you leave
Yeah it’s so generic shooter like
Yup. Difference is that Cod actually knows how to do the "generic shooter" well when it comes to gameplay for people who are looking for such game.
If Starbreeze do not get their shit together Payday 3 will have no players base left before they roll out new content for it. This is giving me Deja vu from when Starbreeze abandoned Raid WW2. I don't think they can handle another flop they will have to fix this asap.
Each heist being a different point on a map would bring crimenet back in aspect and make it easier to find every map even as they expand. Kind of like how ready or not does the map selection
Y'know what bugged me most? I'm a status effects RPG kind of player, and to know PD2 went from having Fire, Electricity, Poison and Smoke to 'Grenade Launcher is an overkill weapon' just really killed my buzz.
There's just whole playstyles you can only do in PD2 now and not even an inkling of them in 3
The whole game feels like the Silent Killer days back in PD2 where everyone built around silencers because of how Edge works right now thus having everyone going with "one of the few viable builds".
thank you for including me in this video! i was in the road rage mission at 8:34 .... nice meeting you
i love you knowley. my love never stops
sus
Thing I miss is multi day heists that have different outcomes for loud vs stealth
I fear that Starbreeze will be treating this IP like DICE has treated the Battlefield IP. It seems like the people are gone that understood what worked well and was liked by the playerbase. And now they have to play catch-up to understand
Been watching the channel from the algorithm favoring more analysis videos; but I also really love the challenge runs and tips for new players with the "how it work" playlist. Great content my friend and you got a new subscriber, the time and effort really shows in the final product
The thing about the music is that we can have both tailor made music for heists and customizable soundtracks. In the pre-planning menu of Payday 2 there is a soundtrack menu that lets you decide whether you want the heist specific track or one of your choosing along with other options. Yes Payday 2 also had heist specific tracks. *Payday 3 did not do it first!*
Underground Lockdown was specifically made for Henry's Rock. Blastaway was made specifically for Brooklyn Bank. Operation Black Light is for The White House.
I'd be surprised if someone doesn't know this, unless they set the music to random 3000 hours ago and forgot
Even Payday: The Heist had tailor made soundtracks, and in that game you couldn't switch them
@@MyUsersDark I remember watching a GeneralMcBadass video about Payday 3’s current state and there was a small part where he commended Payday 3 for having heist specific tracks. It kinda got on my nerves seeing him praise Payday 3 for that when it has already been a thing for so long. 😅
Me personally I miss the fact that loot is a step back, that being the bank heist not carrying any random gold bars or bags or just randomly being empty so you have to hit the deposit boxes. Also loot is now all universal weight and I can run at max speed with perks when carrying full bags of money compared to artwork, which I know most people will say that’s better for when heists get tedious but I liked it for the more realism part of it like of course you can’t run with money cuz it’s heavy but can still move at max while jewelry is lighter so you can throw and run with it. All I want is basically more variety and mechanics to loot than just “it’s our goal now escape with it”.
These videos are always so rational and constructive. Good on you for that
I think the most important part of your critique of payday three is the fact that it’s not just your critique. You went to X/Twitter, or Facebook or anywhere else the community can be found, and asked the community, “What issues do you have with payday 3?” Which means this isn’t a video of “Here’s what Kknowley thinks is wrong/missing from Payday 3,” it’s legitimate community feedback turned into constructive criticism. And for that, I thank you. There is a fairly decent chance that one of the developers will see this, and potentially take action, instead of it just being thousands of us screaming into the void.
Edit: sorry for weird spellings and punctuation, I was using voice to text.
So I thought about this when you were talking about weapon specific skills, what if when you were leveling up you also got weapon skill points or equipment skill points and if you have 2-3 of them that you don't wanna allocate to the weapon or equipment skill point tree you could place them in the other trees at a higher cost, making specialist builds that center around specific weapons, equipment and builds perfectly!
this video is exactly what the devs need to see. this has the problems laid out, this has solutions laid out. this communicates everything everyone has been feeling about the game.
It’s crazy that I’m watching this video 5-ish months later and a lot of, if not all of, these issues are still in the game without a large portion of them even being addressed in the plan for Operation Medic Bag. I love this game, and I hope the devs can build it up to the quality that Payday 2 had.
One thing I will say about progression. They say it’s to help diversify what you do to level up.
The big problem there.
If I were in Payday 2, sure I CAN do diamond store ECM rush if I wanted, but I can also do any other heist I want and level up from it. While it doesn’t promote switching things up too much, the option is there.
If I were in Payday 3 on the other hand, I can play the same heist 50 times and. . . I could make absolutely no progress until that 50th one when the challenge pops and only get a small amount of rep to level up.
It makes it so levelling up is barred later until you do the monotonous grind of 1 heist an absurd number of times.
But things like this will have been said to death.
The worst thing about the weapon stats is that a bunch of random stuff is mixed in each bar and comparing weapons is impossible. *
stares at 870 having better accuracy than some rifles*
the stats that matter are missing too
MOA missing
Vertical recoil missing
Horizontal recoil missing
Tactical vs empty reload time missing
Ads speed missing
And if you can’t stop yourself from adding bloom at least quantify how much per shot what mods affect it and how long to wait for it to reset
There is a reason why SB doesn't show the value of bags. They give an incredibly small amount of money. Most of the money comes from completing missions.
Thanks for mentioning the saw and C4. Towards the end of my Payday 2 career I spent most of my time hitting "find random heist" and most of them (on console) were normal or hard mode, so I took points from DW needed perks and applied them to saw and C4 skills.
I found I had more fun on lower difficulties just because it gave me more freedom. I warmed up to being a demolition expert, nothing like blowing minds by blasting doors. 🤣
It made missions like Hoxton Breakout that much more fun.
Please bring back C4 Starbreeze! I enjoy stealth, but I'm a Loud Boah at heart.
🤠👊
It was fun for a couple weeks. Hopefully I can come back in a year and they will have added back all the features they removed from payday 2
My biggest gripe are by far the missing roleplaying elements like extensive preplanning with blueprints, heist tools or even a lobby that doesn't get disbanded.
So I go all the way back to 2013 with Payday 2, so I will admit, i have a slightly higher tolerance for missing stuff, but I got a few things I wanna bring to the table, that aren't brought up here.
First, the loot value and loot secure sounds being gone are cruel punishments to me lootgoblin brain, and masters torment poor lootgoblin with its' omission.
Second, the fact I can't climb into the van anymore really hurts. Yeah, it doesn't do anything, but it felt so nice jumping in and escaping, like diving for the chance to flee when solo, or the piling in with my whole group, chuckling like maniacs.
Third, the lack of secondaries and overkill weapons. All pistols with similar operation (with only the Revolver standing out behavior wise), so you just end up with whichever you like the way it feels. As for the Overkill weapon, the grenade launchers splash against enemies is so weak, and against yourself so strong, I cannot justify using it except as an occasional variety piece compared to the Anti-Material Rifle.
Whats irking me off so much is the INTENTIONAL lower variety of Heists/Guns etc because we all know they just want to MONETIZE it aka "we'll add more variety via future paid DLCs"
My three Issues are the XP sysem, no in game chat on console , and no option to select the level of player in the heist . I do agree that we do need another way to choose the heist (i.e) a map .
I really want to know for how long this game was developped. Not just concept art, legit developpment, I would honestly guess 1-2 years max.
I heard rumors about inside development and they said 1-2 years, so as far as I know you're spot on
@@MyUsersDark damn
The thing that I hate is the lack of no visual differences with armor and also no LMG's (sad Brenner noises). You have zero clue what your teammate is wearing for armor unless you are in-game and can see the armor value.
Big thanks for the buyers of the alpha version for finally bringing it to the beta version. Im already hyped for 2025 for the full release.
Hey, it's not like they were developing this game half bankrupt or anything...
I was ECSTATIC for Payday 3. I joined it, saw the menus, progression, and heists, then quit. It feels like a slightly more illegal modern Call of Duty than Goddamn PAYDAY 3. I played for a couple hours and went back to Payday 2
This, and more, is why I did not preorder Payday 3 (or any game recently, last one was RDR2). There were so many red flags and "They called me a mad man". Hopefully it becomes a real game one day.
Appearance per loadout is a big one i missed (same as bot outfits and renaming loadouts) seems like no brainers
PD3 completely lacks the spirit of PD2. There is little interesting build variation, that loud becomes boring. The return of perk decks would help that tremendously. They've also reworked stealth, but failed to create any intricate heists that really make use of the mechanics. And all current heists can be completed within 10 mins meaning we're missing out on those epic showdowns like Hoxton Breakout day 2, Slaughterhouses' container yard, Panic room finale - Once the armour is gone, you're pretty much on a timer, so big shootouts like the escape in Aftershock are a no-no.
I wanted to like PD3, but it's empty. I haven't deleted it yet, but I'm not playing it again until some serious QOL and new content changes the dynamics and brings us the spiritual successor to PD2.
Just started playing payday2 bout 3 months ago,was woried that payday3 would kill payday 2😂
I dont know if its in the game, but a skill tree for pistols would be cool. One of the skills could be akimbo that was in the OG payday 2 before they just became thier own class.
Honestly, I can’t help but feel that the developers released PD3 as a kind of placeholder with working action and stealth gameplay.
And all the necessary changes for the community will be made someday later with the addition of content and DLC... if by that time the studio does not close.
I miss the inspect button. It was fun to fidget with my gun during quieter parts of heists and is odd it's gone considering we can put skins, charms and stickers on guns.
Also I don't like weapon type specific skills as I feel they railroad me into using specific guns via stat buffs, unless they provide a unique ability that plays on the fantasy of the weapon, e.g. Being able to fan revolvers as opposed to +10 hipfire accuracy.
Yeah, its dissapointing. I played Payday 2 for around 1000 hours back in 2014-2016 mainly and to see how 3's release has gone has been quite sad. Let's hope they can build it back up.
What i would like to see in the vanilla version of the game is the choise to request an armor bag. I now have this with a mod. And for me the payday 3 menu music is to strong i liked the cracking fire sound from payday 2 way better and yesterday payday 3 made me rage quit and i started payday 2 and listened to bain and i felt better
*Almir streaming on Twitch 1 week before Payday 3 was early access*
Me: hi almir… will we have Crew-Bot Customization like we currently have in Payday2?
Almir: reads my message, ignores it
(No one else had commented at the same time I had posted my message)
In his defence, he couldn’t have commented on that Pre-launch anyway. We obviously didn’t expect customisation after the beta though.
most important for me is weapon skills and the ability to run pistols as primary, not just a fall back on them when your rifle is empty. shotguns (the one we have besides the double barrel) also dont feel powerfull anymore
I feel like the payday 2 menu needs to return along with all of the old perks and features from payday 2 had but i will give them credit for adding cross play and all pc features from payday 2 to be allowed for all consoles to use (what i mean is payday 3s player customization isnt only limited to pc now like outfits and changing ur weapons color isnt only on pc but on all consoles)
i believe stealth xp bonus for next heist is a thing in payday 3, its just they dont make it clear at all, like with the asset drops. although i could be mistaken
I don't play payday 3, but the idea of achievement based progression is both super risky and theoretically interesting. It encourages you to constantly do new things. In Payday 2, achievement hunting makes you do weird challenges, long holdouts, speedrun, stealth, loud, high difficulty, item hunting, currency and kill farming.
Plus, gameplay wise, heists didn't have diversity in terms of loot. It was money, xp, and stealth bonus. Spiced up in terms of difficulty and length. A looter shooter like destiny has loot pools, so if you want X gun, you do X activity specifically, getting efficient at it.
Crime Spree was a huge change to this, and I wish they kept improving it by adding more heists to the pool. Each heist might have the same fundamental loot, but you were forced to do heists you might not be comfortable with to keep that streak going.
YES YES FINALLY SOMEBODY MENTIONS THE (lack of) ROLE PLAYING THANK YOU
While not mentioned specifically, I think a play heist again button would be great, it’s so annoying when you’re grinding heist challenges only to sit through matchmaking for another 10 minutes before you can play again
12:10 I slightly disagree, you can grind for xp, and there was an effective way of doing it, but the game still rewarded doing whatever you want, unlike payday 3. The grind mentioned was a player choice but not necessarily forced, the player could still choose to do any other heist and still get base completion xp.
Payday 3 instead forces you to do what it wants you to against your will to get anywhere.
It feels like they made Payday 3 with the budget of a Payday 2 DLC
I would personally would love to see area of denial throwables and/or tools return in Payday 3. (claymores, tripwires, molotovs, etc). Does anyone actually use that sonic stun device on purpose? I don't think so.
The main thing i love about Payday 3 is how great of a shooter it is, it combines the fun CoD-like gunplay with the always great horde shooter genre, unfortunately one big issue this game has is how clunky and awful the camera feels when playing on console, this is due to an excessively high deadzone wich cannot be adjusted at the moment, i just hope that sooner or later we get a deadzone slider for console
Here's an idea for a part of the progression system: As the devs clearly want the players to try different playstyles and loadouts (judging by the challenge system),
they should add a type of XP - incentive - system, where you get rewarded for playing with a weapon or skill - tree, that you haven't used for some time.
Similar to the Heist XP boosts in PD2, but preferably more impactful.
Just remember: If you want the players to play in a certain way, don't punish them for not doing so and instead reward them for doing it.
The "music is tailored for the individual heists" excuse can really screw right off. I like Payday 3's tracks, Gustavo did a great job on them, but none of them IMO are more "tailored for a specific heist" than Trouble's Always Inbound, Donacdum, Break The Rules, Ode to Greed, or even Gustavo's own Underground Lockdown for example. PD2 had tons of very tonally specific or completely weird tracks and still revelled in its jukebox feature after it was added.
I would *VASTLY* prefer Overkill drop these terrible PR excuses and just state the truth that:
1. The jukebox wasn't a priority feature
2. Readding the jukebox will be harder in Payday 3 as the complexity of varying stealth themes has increased. (eg. Cryptoshot, the nightclub theme, does not even have a stealth theme, it uses the heist ambience instead) Stealth theme variation/lack of loud themes has blocked many pd2 tracks from jukebox compatibility before
Also, here's my lightning round on stuff that wasn't directly mentioned in this video:
-Good reason via the weapon modding system to have mulitple different versions of the same gun (PD2 achieved this via Concealment)
-An equivalent to the Gage Mod Courier system that encourages players to fully explore every heist map
-Loot bags telling you how much they're worth when you secure them
-More of a design philosophy, but I think a _huge_ part of PD2's charm is that many heists try to inject a specific appealing reason to play them. Even before updates when the heists got wilder, Big Oil, Rats, and Mallcrasher for examples are all extremely different heists. These experiments don't always work, and weren't consistent across the game's lifespan, but especially in the "golden years" of the Dentist saga you can see most heists trying to do something to provide unique experiences. IMO trying to go back to The Heist's level design philosophy to standardise heists, remove multi-days, etc somewhat loses this appeal
All I needed to hear was that they removed secondary smgs to know I wouldn’t have fun. I basically only go akimbo deagles with an smg secondary (I forget which) It’s just great to be able to switch between spray & pray to high power weaponry lol
All of these are interesting things of note, and truly i feel there is room to expand of course. Although for some reason i feel like the lore of payday 3 in particular is trying to set up that the gang has to start basically from scratch again due to how the story played out, so they don't have access to all the old shit they had before and just have to work with what is more readily available for now.
I really wish if they remasterd or remake payday 2 with unreal engine 4 or 5 like payday 3 engine it will be fun
IF they add additional Overkill weapons, I think a cool achievement name for purchasing one is "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum". If you want peace, prepare for war
That’s easy. You don’t need internet to play Payday 2.
Worst thing about how Payday 3 turned out is that it solidified the fact that Overkill/Starbreeze is in an infinite loop of digging themselves a fucking crater, and then trying to crawl out of it. Theyve never been in a state of just coasting an existing project while working on something new. Every time without fail they release an absolute cluster fuck then spend a few years trying to cobble it into something passable. By then time theyve done that theyre out of money, and then they put out a brand new clusterfuck. Rinse and repeat. I think this is their last project of their own volition. Whatever they work on next unrelated to Payday wont be their choice. Upper management needs to be restructured.
I'm with you on everything but weapon class skills. fundamentally your issue of "why wouldn't I just stick an SA or VF in every build?" is a balance concern with the weapons, not the skills. I LIKE that I can use SMGs and shotguns similarly with enforcer and that enforcer isn't gated to just shotguns, for example.
One feature I would like to see or two actually. A genuine "invite only" lobby. Multiple times people jump
into my game while stealthing in a "invite only" lobby and not all know how to stealth. Invite only is a lie
right now. Second being Zappers and Cloakers only target live players and makes solo play a little hard
to save crewmates when they only target you. Progression was not thought out properly.
at best, pd3 helps show how good and a masterpiece pd2 is
I knew that I should wait at least a year before buying payday 3 because even if everything rolled out perfect there would be something missing, and man am I glad I waited to see how everything would unfold
About DRM and only online mod, i do think more people are willing to pirate payday 3 now then buy it tbh and have those issues, a specially offline mode is one of the best things, because you can play 24/7 no matter where and if your internet is dead
above everything imo, the worst thing is the removal of the sound cue with a pop up of the value of the bagged loot you just saved
Finally someone said it
To be honest, I wanted a great game of course. BUT, I wasn’t really expecting PD3 to be “better”. I would rather have an better graphics PD2 with some of the features from PD3, as well as more that we still are missing. That game would be GOD TIER.
I expected at least a vault to display your money building up over time... i like that visual eye candy.
I who never really got into the crimewave edition of payday 2 because I didn’t have easy access to my ps4 and at the time didn’t know I could play offline and while I had tried it on ps now back when that was a thing I never really went anywhere what I really got into was the safecracker edition on my ps3. Comparing payday 3 to that and I just love it. While a lot of the stuff you bring up that 2 had at launch was well founded everything else means nothing to me because I never used it. It also helps that I got it for Christmas so the servers where fixed. While the new level select system is soulless it isn’t as much of a pain as he made it out to be as there are separate tabs for everything really curing back on the mindless scrolling with everything neatly organized
I have crimewave edition on my PS5 and it was fun but i feel some thing was wrong i check the steam store and all the DLC maps were here while we get less content i mean it was fun but we feel like abandoned cause the devs too busy in the other patform and not the other i hope they don't make that mistake again in Payday 3 and give content to both Patforms even it they had better things.
For me, a big problem that might not ever be resolved is the character roster. I get that there are multiple reasons for them not being there (lore, licensing, we’re still not that far from release, getting the voice actors back) but i still really miss the payday 2 cast. Makes me sad that we might never see jacket, scarface, john, bain, (although that one i have accepted a while ago) rust and a bunch of the others again. It’s nice to see the main 4 and some of the old contractors back, and the new additions are fine and i might grow to like them with time, but i think we might have peaked with the payday 2 gang in terms of charm and how iconic they were (atleast to me).
Also i get that they’re going for a more serious tone for this game and that the graphics obviously needed an update, but for me the sometimes wacky and catoonish tone, charmingly dated graphics along with the character roster were some of the biggest reasons why i fell in love with payday.
ive played the game a grand total of once. i played one match and said "yeah im going back to payday 2" and so did all of my friends.
Holy hell I actually made it into a kknowley video
(At 1:00 he's scrolling through the comments on the Twitter page he referred to and I happened to be there )
4:29 Interesting; so I'm not the only one who hungers for more Diegetic game design.
I hate that my first instinct to not buy this game was correct: I’ve been playing Payday 2 since release, I wanted Payday 3 to be good, I was begging for it to be one of the Baldur’s Gates of this year, a titan of the industry pushing Payday into the modern era. Now I’m just jaded and disappointed: they’ve had 10 years and this is what they released?
As someone who first started playing Payday on console before moving to PC, there is two accessibility options missing from PD3. The ability to turn off Sticky Aim and any Aim Assist for controller players. I don't have a problem with the inclusion of such features, but it hinders me from playing comfortably by having these options forced on all times. Another weird step back from PD2 to PD3.
i feel like they made normal mode really hard given that the enemies are more tanky and dozers can spawn while you're heisting. it's exceptionally harder when you're a new player and have no idea what a dozer is or does and you get attacked by multiple dozers in one area and that makes you fail your heist on solo.
Payday 2 as a game is WAYYY more nuanced and fun than payday 3. They got rid of so much in gameplay, less content, gutted the system for making buildsand simplified it too much, removed perk aces, and the perk system is a joke. So little content and removal of quality of life content and just genuinely good mechanics that vanished. FBI files was one of the coolest things in payday 2, but now it doesn't exist.
That being said, it has its strengths in its core gameplay. Payday 3 FEELS better to shoot and do things. I think it just needs a LOT more time in the oven. Like he said, it has lack of soul.
I think payday 3 will be an absolutly incredible game, but it'll take probably 2 or 3 years.
i just hope they don't abandon it man, its got great guts
I mean, pretty sure Starbreeze cant afford to abandon it, its either success or bankruptcy at this point.
Why add anything on launch when you can make dlc out of bullet types? Gage assault pack coming this christmas 10%off
Honestly with how they have treated the console community seeing the game come out like this is no real surprise