This had a theatrical film level budget and a 5-year production cycle, but because television animation is still the domain of impatient, penny-pinching morons they swapped animation studios after the very first episode over frustration with completion time and expense so we end up with this shit I love this industry so much 🙃
I think I never commented, but should start doing it to help boosting your channel. I always enjoy your videos and research behind it. They are unique and some of the best content in that nieche. Thanks for that peak content of yours.
Warner is horrible at producing everything. Terrible company nowadays. Honestly, it's a shame they own the greatest properties in the world. They don't deserve them.
Correction: 20:38 I must have gotten mixed up, Yuji Moriyama is an animation director who was all over Urusei Yatsura & the creator, writer and Animation director of Project Ako. He was not The General Director for either of these.
Stopped watching Uzumaki after episode 2, that quality drop was just too drastic. Thought I was already on the fence because I felt like ep. 1 speed ran thought so much that all the dread was gone, there was no buildup to the horror so I ended up being pretty bored despite the good animation
Absolutely not. Then the story would end up even more rushed. It needed to be longer and use it's budget better. Love action, 3d animation, then rotoscoping? Ridiculously unnecessary.
I remember coming home after a long weekend out, away from Social Media, ready to watch the second episode, only to be bombarded by the infamous beach scene on Twitter. I literally fell to the floor, with the words "five years" looping in my mind. I was really excited about this show not only because the trailer got me into Colin Stetson and the source material, but because I love when a show comes out that shows what the industry can do when it gets it's shit together. I know the show wasn't in production for the whole five years since it was announced, and was aware of the pandemic holding production back, but I didn't keep up with the bits of info that dropped over the past few years hinting at the major production issues, like with the disparity in credited studios in interviews and official outlets. I really thought this would be another Mob Psycho or Pluto in terms of industry passion projects that weren't held back by the usual. I hate that it didn't deliver, and I wish Nagahama gets another chance to create something special WITHOUT the BS.
@Stevem Yeah. I'm mainly glad that Maruyama and the staff were able to actually complete their vision for the show, even with the funding, but yeah that wasn't the best example for a show that had good conditions. From what I know, Look Back and Heavenly Delusion had good schedules and they were exceptional. And KyoAni's working conditions are some of the best in the industry apparently. I just hope more people pay attention to productions and studios that are better for its artists. Maybe it can lead to more and more productions following their lead. If that did happen it would take a long while, but even then, great, relatively ethical work should be spotlighted. Especially in the animation industry.
@@IAMA1 well its a bit more complicated to become such a studio, like if it were that simple everyone could have a large inhouse group of animators that are trained well in the studio with a limited amount of shows that they are very involved in the financing for, thus have more power over the schedule
@@Stevem True. It would be hard for studios to have all those variables, especially since the studios themselves don't have all the power on productions typically, but I'd hope that studios could do what they can to improve standards incrementally. The industry can't just keep growing forever in this state unless things change, even if they do very slowly.
id like to seee improvements id say moving back to a salary model would have better results and one that's a bit more inhouse, of course someone like kyoani also succeeds for two other reasons: They are not in Tokyo so they don't have the talent drain that they have there where all the best talent is sucked up by the biggest studios etc and the second one they may not openingly say but its a women friendly studio in which they have a better chance of going up the ladder (well prior now its so competitive a lot end up leaving after a certain position is reached)or less toxic environment
Junji Ito has been having a bad run of anime adaptations as of late. Anime is a difficult medium to do horror properly and that trend seems to be continuing.
Great analysis! I thought much the same regarding the overall presentation. It's a shame they struggled with production, but we got some nice episodes out of it. I think if you skip episode 2, the overall impression is much stronger. I also thought of the possibility of touchups being done for a Bluray release, but the effort might be too much, considering the state of the worst episode. I'd be interested in a crowdfund to get the studios to try to fix the worst aspects of the show, but I don't think they would be too interested. Overall, I'm disappointed in what we got, but it's definitely the best Junji Ito animation thus far. It's got a unique presentation with the manga styling and Stetson's music, and it truly delivered some frightening scenes (e.g. the hospital).
Great video, a nice surprise before I sleep. It's a shame that they didn't get to reach their full potential but they've definitely proved an adaptation can be done well. I think going black and white was smart, personally it stood out more for me than the really saturated colours of modern anime (which I love but still). Though the lovely manga colours could have worked as well, I'm pretty sure this was a choice for budget reasons as well. Perhaps experimenting with mediums could have helped? I personally don't think mocap was the way to go as it's quite expensive. Computer graphics are quite capable of doing many great things, it doesn't have to be only 3 dimensional graphics. Perhaps simulations could've helped? Let's take an example of many of the background swirls. I think it would be better to embrace computer graphics and have someone write a simulation for them. If you're worried about the strokes not looking right, I don't think that's necessarily true as one can see Moho create some really nice effects. But this would require you to hire at least one simulation programmer and maybe one dude for look and feel. They would save animators a lot of time and allow them to focus on the more difficult parts that a computer can't make look right: the humans. That being said complexity would increase and I think I'm being optimistic. While I don't think spirals would be complex for modern computers and a little magical compositing can change a lot, you never know until production starts. I feel if someone truly wants to adapt something on this scale they may have to spend a lot of time in pre-production. Satoshi Kon spent at least a year on storyboards? Redline's production time doubled since half of it was essentially getting the look right. But let's be honest, I don't know if studios are that forgiving today. How long has Miyazaki's latest film taken? That means that young directors probably have to do all (or most) the pre-production himself, test how they'd go about doing a scene so that the production pipeline is tight, finding out how to approach backgrounds differently so some poor chap doesn't have to bloody draw so many frames, find ways to creatively express themselves so that they don't have to stay true to the source and can go in a more animation direction... before they even pitch. Basically very unlikely. Redline got very very lucky and even then most people dislike it. I don't think any producer would truly give an infinite amount of time and money.
B&W was a creative choice, over budgetary. In fact they were ask about it in one panel and said something like there's as many shades of gray here as usual colours in anime so its not like it makes anything more compact not to mention the technical side of managing clarity in all gray and white. A simulation is going to up costs, since i dont think spirals in the bg is where they were spending much if any time that was likely the photography department nothing to do with the animators. Madhouse in the 00s was a different beast like spending a year doing boards in preproduction isnt crazy uncommon, the thing is madhouse was a full studio of salary workers with contacts and all. Kon's movies were budget things and redline was also made in a backroom, neither of them were full animation. Miyazakis latest movie took 7 years and is reported the most expensive anime movie of all time and originally the box office did not look optimistic, until the world release. I could not blame a producer for not giving infinite time and money there job is to worry about schedules and money, it would be silly to that kind of stuff has to be indie.
25:37 Reading that post, they definitely should have gone for option B. Like, "out of respect for all the hard work they put into it we are going to release this product that makes them look incompetent to anyone who doesn't know the context." is certainly a take.
For real though, "We realized that we overscoped and decided to just focus on making episode 1 the best that it can be." would have generated much more respect from me at least.
It's kind of a double edged sword that more people have been reading the manga because the anime was so bad. Whenever something like this happens (which is depressingly often) I'm glad there was never an adaptation of The Incal or Transmetropolitan.
U put in all the things I thought & noticed/"hope" for myself. It's incredibly rough in a good number of areas but I feel some things like the 1 scene in ep 4 were sensationalized too much when that was the closest to lookin as good as ep 1. I highly doubt it but it'd be nice if they could somehow improve things in a home release. How it ended up is unfortunate but I enjoyed it as an anime only even if it was dissapointin. Ep 3 to me was also the scariest part of the entire thing. They really tried & it was so ambitious but Covid, poor last min management, & lack of time really screwed em. I think this is the best vid on the whole thing
Seems to me that the main issue with all the Junji Ito adaptations is that they all take the source material too literally. They add no in-between scenes, no extra character development, nothing. They just seem to focus on animating it with as few changes as possible, even when the pacing wouldn't work in animation. Also, in regards to 19:00, there is actually a gekimation advertisement for this show on the Adult Swim RUclips channel. And it looks way better than the the walking scene in the actual anime XD
most adaptations nowadays are pretty literal and safe been such a way since a lot of those remake shows became popular, violence voyager is a movie and i think for what its going its very impressive
oh man, it such a shame too because the pilot and eps 1 is soo good. I really wanna watch it in one sitting after hearing Uzumaki came out. But now, I'll pribably stick with the manga
Protip: If you're going to be criticizing someone else's edits, cuts and composition, maybe take yourself out of frame so we can actually see what you're talking about. Several times throughout the video I would have loved to see more clearly the shots or animation you were talking about, but your body was in the way.
I didn't notice most of these issues, and if I did, they didn't bother me because it is so ambitious overall. They generally got the important shots and overall vibe right.
I know it's an impossible to know the answer question, but maybe you could help me understand certain decisions made here. How do you think it would have gone if they dropped the framerate overall? As impressive as episode 1 is, I can't wrap my head around that decision of doing things in 1s and 2s because it sounds like a masochistic ritual you can only pull off if you are Disney doing The Hunchback of Notre Dame or something like that. I don't know, I would have gone with something more conservative. Heck, since they banked so much on the source material, they could have gone more into more Gainax territory and make more still frames. I don't think people would have gone against that, just don't make it Bluelock s2.
because it was mocap at its core it could be quite hard to just lower it down smoothly youd have to retime and adjust everything and stilll draw it like if we're dropping from 10-14k how far are we going whille still using it without it feeling off, like you can roto on 3s with a certain feeling but from mocap youre losing fidelity to start with
@Stevem so it sounds it's the kind of thing you only do if you are 100% sure you will do it on time and budget or the producers are forgiving enough. Going back to that tweet, it sounds at some point they were promised backing but when things got out of hand the deal was broken and they already finished episode 1. Maybe it was around covid when that could have happened? It would have been possible to change the pipeline from mocap to traditional in the middle of the production or is that way more effort than just follow what's already stablished and deal with its shortcomings?
@@fordesponja i dont think its easy to break down, i dont think the money vanished it was just poorly used frankly. well if youre mocapping i wouldnt be surprised if they did the whole show in one longer session of renting out the studio, to stop using it is kinda gonna cook you because youre relying of the models because the designs are so detailed and specific from the hair to the style etc
@33:30 ish: Why do I get the feeling that there were lots of in-jokes in this episode - "how many times can I say Spiraling" or "It's a Roundabout way" Blooper reel to follow?
23:20 No, that's definitely the rotoscoping, They did that thing that always used to happen in early green screen where the depth of the animation isn't right so it becomes very obvious that they are jpegs sliding around each other. IRL it's usually a lighting problem, here I think it's because the animation is too flat. Also, back in the running scene, one of the biggest problems is the guy second on the left is "animated"(using that term loosely here) running in a straight line, but is drawn as if they are running at as angle.
well i might have said it poorly but yeah i was getting at hes running straight but moving sideways and it feels weird the perspective in general is off with people chasing them being too big
19:55 I found it really interesting when you said that there's a right way to rotoscope and a wrong way, and if you get it wrong it looks weird and uncanny. Can you elaborate on that? I'd be really interested to learn more about that, do you know of any good resources for that?
it's not a hard or fast ruleset, usually having an understanding of animation principles helps, because often its about knowing what frames to keep in my opinion, i think rotoscoping on ones is quite hard to get right so its better to lower it down to 2s or 3s, then its about choosing the right frames and how you adjust them for animation if youre adding smears and stuff. It can also be about the amount of detail you take from the motion I tend to prefer rotoscope that's selective about the details it keeps.
Both Nagahama and Uki Sakate "Kirie" were in attendance for Otakon in Washington, DC this past Summer. Nagahama spent hours drawing for fans even after his allocated time. Uki was very kind to meet. While I was not able to meet Nagahama, I gained more respect for him going beyond expectations after hearing positive stories about the signing event. After watching the final product, i still enjoyed it despite the production problems of 2&3 that I agree still had some good cuts. I thought the ending stinger of the finale was really cool, too. I do believe a home release and some time could fix any further issues.
I'd love it if Junji Ito's work was adapted into a Visual Novel type game. Or perhaps he could make an original story and make it into a VN. Closest thing to it is the recent indie VN title World of Horror which is all in black and white Ito style, but also a callback to old Japanese PC98 games.
I think they hit it tonally which has been the main problem with other Ito's adaptations in my opinion, too bad the consistency and animation quality didn't get quite there.
Look, I never read this specific work, but I'm an Ito fan. Always heard about how great Uzumaki was. Always saw the famous panels floating around. I watched the show this week, thought it was absolutely great. I feel like the people complaining about this show are trying to hold this show to an impossible standard of the manga. I'm sure it's... frustrating, but I don't think the complaints hold up to anyone else. I don't get why we all continue to have such high standards given the clear constraints the industry puts on the medium. But I honestly thought the show looked great, and every time someone complains about this show I can't help but cringe a little. Seriously, the show looks fine, and these critiques come off to me, as a casual Uzumaki fan, nit-picky. The moments where animation looked uncanny or stilted, honestly felt additive to the style or unnoticeable. I remember the beach scene specifically feeling really interesting - I felt like their running was slow and off, and it legit reminded me of being in a nightmare where you try to run but move like a snail or feel off balance. Some of the clear animation errors created a release of tension, like it was almost for comedic effect, like the jack in the box scene. When we slow things down and analyze them, I'll admit that I definitely see the same faults you point out. But I was also just caught up in how the story was unfolding - since I was experiencing it for the first time! As an artist, I really value critique and think we need more of it as artists and creatives. But the amount of hate I've seen this show get feels so disproportionate to the quality of the final product, and how people who haven't read Uzumaki perceive it. I love horror anime, this was captivating in a way so many recent shows haven't been. It's so ironic that so many fans are willing to paint a stain the legacy of what is actually passable for others or even great. Feels entitled and so backwards to project so much a sense of failure on a process that you are so incredibly removed from - and again, something that was still great! Maybe no one reads this or you disagree, but if you haven't watched the show or read the manga, just watch the show! You'll enjoy it. If you read the manga first instead, I guess the old adage is true: the book is better than the movie. So maybe just read the book afterwards instead, you'll be satisfied with both.
I don't think there's anything wrong with not taking a lot of peoples reactions as gospel. Uzumaki is likely his most beloved story so there's gonna be a lot of pearl clutching either way, especially off the hype of so many years, but if you enjoyed it that's far more important than random responses online .
@ Thanks for the response. I get it. If someone butchered my favorite IP, I know I’d have a lot to say about it. And the story of the production hell it’s been in is interesting, worth covering, worth discussing - industry will continue to hinder true artistic expression, but it’s the system we live in. I just also can’t help but express how dissonant it feels when I know a lot of people who haven’t read the manga, but have watched so much analysis of this adaptation that now they think the show sucks because of what’s missing from the manga - which they’ve never read! I can’t help but feel like that’s is not how we should be consuming art - but it’s what’s happening. People are taking it as gospel. I hope people give this a fair shot for what it’s worth, even as something divergent from the quality of the written material.
@@usernamehandleyeah that's usually how the Internet machine is people watch someone else over watching the thing etc but over time it will be interesting to see how the response changes
This adaptation was big disappointment I've been waiting for this since 2020, and have thought that the long time it was taking was a good omen, it's sad to learn about the production hell it went through but its sadder to see it registered on the episodes that came after the first.
I feel bad for Nagahama I had no interest in this adaptation until I heard he was directing only to find out that he wasn’t even allowed to direct half the episodes and was only credited for the storyboards Ever since aku no hana it seems like he could never catch a break
The show already misstepped with ep´s one hurried pacing and the needlessly slavish devotion to do it exactly panel by panel but the rest was a near-comical crime. Adult Swim should have only released ep 1 as a special. Their anime output and the reputation of Ito adaptions, the middling live-action film somehow runs laps around this abortion, didn´t need another hit against their reputation. A truly bad adaptation Berserk 2016/17, TPNL S2, etc is worse than not having one. The stink on the IPs will remain for a decade or more. Imagine the drama if Calvin and Hobbes got one of these 2 to 3/10 adaptations.
I think, beyond the animation, the show suffered a lot from a rushed pacing and inconsistent narrative, even in episode 1. Right now, I dont see a way the production could have delivered without at least triplicating the number of episodes or cutting half of the manga.
I do not think that humans can meaningfully animate Junji Ito's works for now. Maybe in 40 years, if the AI actually mature and we get a handle of direct brain-machine interface. Before that, the man is too good on the graphic part - and his graphics too important to convey horror out of "thin air" - for any animation to pull off convincingly, within the limits of a normal budget .
Junji ito no Bs is cursed when it comes to adaptations gyo was terrible the anthology maniac and the collection were pisspoor animated . And then this uzumaki the first episode good second episode terrible third episode improvement but the pacing was so Damn fast that it just was bad from there. I would say I don’t trust adult swim wit anime anymore 😂but idk rooster fighter and Lazarus is the final straw
I think it's always gonna vary on the production I don't even know if swim is the crutch for if it's anything in particular they've been producing anime in part for 20 years
I have to disagree with "animation unfriendliness" of manga's drawings. They are pretty simple. Other problem is that there is just not enough people who are good enough to draw even ok looking art. Twitter lies about quantity and quality of talent. Also there is management issues on every project like that and lack of sense in using 3d.
go draw a sequence right now with those designs that's on model and tell me how easy it is, you are contradicting yourself even in the second setense with people who are good enough thus it can't be eaasy if their arent enough, especially down to the hair or shading technique
I still think Uzumaki did not need an animation, nothing from Junji Ito needs animation. People are just so ravenous and hungry to consume shit they like they rather have slop quick than a proper meal. Maybe we don't need to animate every popular thing we find. Artists should know when to say no to consumerism greed to avoid the bastardization of their craft, but i guess money talks and care walks.
Well we don't need any adaptation ever really do we, but that's besides the point we live in such markets where you have to make money to survive so If any artist wants that it's not really a big deal even though realistically it's not their choice it's the right holder which is the publisher
@Stevem absolutely, stop adaptation altogether. Don't sell your soul for money. Let creatures keep their intellectual property and definitely don't sell it to a conglomerate.
there is no ¨need of it¨. but people are always wanting for a good animated adaptation of Ito's mangas because they know it could have a lot of potential if done right. it just would require true dedication, and the anime industry is rarely goig to do that
well to stop completely would be absurd, creators keeping their Ip rights is also a bit of a pipedream in a lot of instances because of how these industries work
5:41 no, it is not as difficult as you trying present it. It is at this point standard procedure. Sometimes only static images are used, sometimes full motion capture. But it is not making series twice. Mocap is made with rough approximation of a model, it can speed up the process quite a bit and serve as preview. In case of Uzumaki though, mocap doesn't seem to be great and it wasn't communicated to artists well enough how to work with it. Can't say anything about budget, probably not as expensive as you would think.
SOURCES
docs.google.com/document/d/1nlDWjh42TiMhrTJjy0jULUjMPI_3o775BzM2FjZOGOs/edit?usp=sharing
Ayo awesome stuff man! God bless ya and Jesus loves ya!
This had a theatrical film level budget and a 5-year production cycle, but because television animation is still the domain of impatient, penny-pinching morons they swapped animation studios after the very first episode over frustration with completion time and expense so we end up with this shit
I love this industry so much 🙃
They spent most of the time and budget on the first episode. The show might not have ever been finished.
Phoenix was always in some part involved the money situation is likely that each episode has it's own pool id assume
I think I never commented, but should start doing it to help boosting your channel. I always enjoy your videos and research behind it. They are unique and some of the best content in that nieche. Thanks for that peak content of yours.
I appreciate that!
Warner is horrible at producing everything.
Terrible company nowadays.
Honestly, it's a shame they own the greatest properties in the world. They don't deserve them.
Such is the case with any of them really
Also after merging with discovery, they're destroying cartoon Network
Correction:
20:38 I must have gotten mixed up, Yuji Moriyama is an animation director who was all over Urusei Yatsura & the creator, writer and Animation director of Project Ako. He was not The General Director for either of these.
My roommate watched my soul leave my body as we watched episode 2. I'd been hyping this up for YEARS
damn
i would have liked to have seen everything animated on 2's, except the spirals being animated on the 1's
Stopped watching Uzumaki after episode 2, that quality drop was just too drastic. Thought I was already on the fence because I felt like ep. 1 speed ran thought so much that all the dread was gone, there was no buildup to the horror so I ended up being pretty bored despite the good animation
pacing is always going to be trouble for sure
I think you are being over dramatic.
not a good comment..
I'll catch this later, I'm trying to watch a stream by this guy Stevem, not sure if you've heard of him.
Lol
I just missed that stream
@@StevemI would have given you manga copy of Uzumaki... but I am sure most RUclipsrs can afford it nowadays... unlike a nobody
This really should've been a movie. You can't put this much effort into a TV show without sacrifices.
it would have to be even shorter then
@Stevem Uzumaki is an anthology, too. This was going to be hard to adapt no matter what.
@@mrbanks456 yeah no ideal i suppose if its a film its best to pick and choose what chapters youll adapt etc
Absolutely not. Then the story would end up even more rushed. It needed to be longer and use it's budget better. Love action, 3d animation, then rotoscoping? Ridiculously unnecessary.
I remember coming home after a long weekend out, away from Social Media, ready to watch the second episode, only to be bombarded by the infamous beach scene on Twitter. I literally fell to the floor, with the words "five years" looping in my mind.
I was really excited about this show not only because the trailer got me into Colin Stetson and the source material, but because I love when a show comes out that shows what the industry can do when it gets it's shit together. I know the show wasn't in production for the whole five years since it was announced, and was aware of the pandemic holding production back, but I didn't keep up with the bits of info that dropped over the past few years hinting at the major production issues, like with the disparity in credited studios in interviews and official outlets. I really thought this would be another Mob Psycho or Pluto in terms of industry passion projects that weren't held back by the usual. I hate that it didn't deliver, and I wish Nagahama gets another chance to create something special WITHOUT the BS.
pluto was a real struggle that was like 10 years of production off and on trying to get funding etc almost bankrupting m2 etc
@Stevem Yeah. I'm mainly glad that Maruyama and the staff were able to actually complete their vision for the show, even with the funding, but yeah that wasn't the best example for a show that had good conditions.
From what I know, Look Back and Heavenly Delusion had good schedules and they were exceptional. And KyoAni's working conditions are some of the best in the industry apparently. I just hope more people pay attention to productions and studios that are better for its artists. Maybe it can lead to more and more productions following their lead. If that did happen it would take a long while, but even then, great, relatively ethical work should be spotlighted. Especially in the animation industry.
@@IAMA1 well its a bit more complicated to become such a studio, like if it were that simple everyone could have a large inhouse group of animators that are trained well in the studio with a limited amount of shows that they are very involved in the financing for, thus have more power over the schedule
@@Stevem True. It would be hard for studios to have all those variables, especially since the studios themselves don't have all the power on productions typically, but I'd hope that studios could do what they can to improve standards incrementally. The industry can't just keep growing forever in this state unless things change, even if they do very slowly.
id like to seee improvements id say moving back to a salary model would have better results and one that's a bit more inhouse, of course someone like kyoani also succeeds for two other reasons: They are not in Tokyo so they don't have the talent drain that they have there where all the best talent is sucked up by the biggest studios etc and the second one they may not openingly say but its a women friendly studio in which they have a better chance of going up the ladder (well prior now its so competitive a lot end up leaving after a certain position is reached)or less toxic environment
So close. The glimpses of perfection that we got throughout makes it hurt that much more. I just hope we can get something like this again one day.
On a slightly related topic on horror manga, RIP Kazuo Umezu.
rip
Junji Ito has been having a bad run of anime adaptations as of late. Anime is a difficult medium to do horror properly and that trend seems to be continuing.
Horror is hard to get right
Never thought I'd see an Uzumaki Stevem video, but this is exactly what I've been looking for
enjoy lol
Great analysis! I thought much the same regarding the overall presentation. It's a shame they struggled with production, but we got some nice episodes out of it. I think if you skip episode 2, the overall impression is much stronger.
I also thought of the possibility of touchups being done for a Bluray release, but the effort might be too much, considering the state of the worst episode. I'd be interested in a crowdfund to get the studios to try to fix the worst aspects of the show, but I don't think they would be too interested.
Overall, I'm disappointed in what we got, but it's definitely the best Junji Ito animation thus far. It's got a unique presentation with the manga styling and Stetson's music, and it truly delivered some frightening scenes (e.g. the hospital).
even a few corrections could go a long way id say
how did they think they could make this story in 4 episodes
Probs what was allocated
Great video, a nice surprise before I sleep.
It's a shame that they didn't get to reach their full potential but they've definitely proved an adaptation can be done well. I think going black and white was smart, personally it stood out more for me than the really saturated colours of modern anime (which I love but still). Though the lovely manga colours could have worked as well, I'm pretty sure this was a choice for budget reasons as well.
Perhaps experimenting with mediums could have helped? I personally don't think mocap was the way to go as it's quite expensive. Computer graphics are quite capable of doing many great things, it doesn't have to be only 3 dimensional graphics. Perhaps simulations could've helped?
Let's take an example of many of the background swirls. I think it would be better to embrace computer graphics and have someone write a simulation for them. If you're worried about the strokes not looking right, I don't think that's necessarily true as one can see Moho create some really nice effects. But this would require you to hire at least one simulation programmer and maybe one dude for look and feel. They would save animators a lot of time and allow them to focus on the more difficult parts that a computer can't make look right: the humans. That being said complexity would increase and I think I'm being optimistic. While I don't think spirals would be complex for modern computers and a little magical compositing can change a lot, you never know until production starts.
I feel if someone truly wants to adapt something on this scale they may have to spend a lot of time in pre-production. Satoshi Kon spent at least a year on storyboards? Redline's production time doubled since half of it was essentially getting the look right. But let's be honest, I don't know if studios are that forgiving today. How long has Miyazaki's latest film taken?
That means that young directors probably have to do all (or most) the pre-production himself, test how they'd go about doing a scene so that the production pipeline is tight, finding out how to approach backgrounds differently so some poor chap doesn't have to bloody draw so many frames, find ways to creatively express themselves so that they don't have to stay true to the source and can go in a more animation direction... before they even pitch. Basically very unlikely. Redline got very very lucky and even then most people dislike it. I don't think any producer would truly give an infinite amount of time and money.
B&W was a creative choice, over budgetary. In fact they were ask about it in one panel and said something like there's as many shades of gray here as usual colours in anime so its not like it makes anything more compact not to mention the technical side of managing clarity in all gray and white.
A simulation is going to up costs, since i dont think spirals in the bg is where they were spending much if any time that was likely the photography department nothing to do with the animators.
Madhouse in the 00s was a different beast like spending a year doing boards in preproduction isnt crazy uncommon, the thing is madhouse was a full studio of salary workers with contacts and all. Kon's movies were budget things and redline was also made in a backroom, neither of them were full animation.
Miyazakis latest movie took 7 years and is reported the most expensive anime movie of all time and originally the box office did not look optimistic, until the world release.
I could not blame a producer for not giving infinite time and money there job is to worry about schedules and money, it would be silly to that kind of stuff has to be indie.
@@Stevem fair
25:37 Reading that post, they definitely should have gone for option B. Like, "out of respect for all the hard work they put into it we are going to release this product that makes them look incompetent to anyone who doesn't know the context." is certainly a take.
For real though, "We realized that we overscoped and decided to just focus on making episode 1 the best that it can be." would have generated much more respect from me at least.
youd be spitting at years of working by doing that
Very stylish presentation 😁.
I do wish anime studios would explore animation friendly horror Mangas because they exist
Maybe one day haha
It's kind of a double edged sword that more people have been reading the manga because the anime was so bad. Whenever something like this happens (which is depressingly often) I'm glad there was never an adaptation of The Incal or Transmetropolitan.
U put in all the things I thought & noticed/"hope" for myself. It's incredibly rough in a good number of areas but I feel some things like the 1 scene in ep 4 were sensationalized too much when that was the closest to lookin as good as ep 1. I highly doubt it but it'd be nice if they could somehow improve things in a home release. How it ended up is unfortunate but I enjoyed it as an anime only even if it was dissapointin. Ep 3 to me was also the scariest part of the entire thing. They really tried & it was so ambitious but Covid, poor last min management, & lack of time really screwed em. I think this is the best vid on the whole thing
yeah i mean i was very much thinking that while 4 also has rough spots its got some really strong cuts in it especially when it comes to fabric
We’re eating good
Lol
You don't get it, bad animation is part of the horror
horror of the production maybe
You've never created anything in your life have you
@ you’ve never been invited to a party in your life have you
Seems to me that the main issue with all the Junji Ito adaptations is that they all take the source material too literally. They add no in-between scenes, no extra character development, nothing. They just seem to focus on animating it with as few changes as possible, even when the pacing wouldn't work in animation.
Also, in regards to 19:00, there is actually a gekimation advertisement for this show on the Adult Swim RUclips channel. And it looks way better than the the walking scene in the actual anime XD
most adaptations nowadays are pretty literal and safe been such a way since a lot of those remake shows became popular,
violence voyager is a movie and i think for what its going its very impressive
oh man, it such a shame too because the pilot and eps 1 is soo good. I really wanna watch it in one sitting after hearing Uzumaki came out. But now, I'll pribably stick with the manga
Protip:
If you're going to be criticizing someone else's edits, cuts and composition, maybe take yourself out of frame so we can actually see what you're talking about.
Several times throughout the video I would have loved to see more clearly the shots or animation you were talking about, but your body was in the way.
Haha you're right that is the sound effect redlettermedia uses whenever they throw something on set 😂
Yes it's very deliberate
I didn't notice most of these issues, and if I did, they didn't bother me because it is so ambitious overall. They generally got the important shots and overall vibe right.
well im glad you enjoyed it
the term i like for that "literally just a jpeg bouncing" style animation is "frankensteined" - coined by the wachowskis
nahhhh it's gekimation that sounds very disrespectful
I’m very thankful that you brought up colin Stetson. I highly recommend anyone reading this to give his music a listen
great stuff
I know it's an impossible to know the answer question, but maybe you could help me understand certain decisions made here. How do you think it would have gone if they dropped the framerate overall? As impressive as episode 1 is, I can't wrap my head around that decision of doing things in 1s and 2s because it sounds like a masochistic ritual you can only pull off if you are Disney doing The Hunchback of Notre Dame or something like that.
I don't know, I would have gone with something more conservative. Heck, since they banked so much on the source material, they could have gone more into more Gainax territory and make more still frames. I don't think people would have gone against that, just don't make it Bluelock s2.
because it was mocap at its core it could be quite hard to just lower it down smoothly youd have to retime and adjust everything and stilll draw it like if we're dropping from 10-14k how far are we going whille still using it without it feeling off, like you can roto on 3s with a certain feeling but from mocap youre losing fidelity to start with
@Stevem so it sounds it's the kind of thing you only do if you are 100% sure you will do it on time and budget or the producers are forgiving enough.
Going back to that tweet, it sounds at some point they were promised backing but when things got out of hand the deal was broken and they already finished episode 1. Maybe it was around covid when that could have happened?
It would have been possible to change the pipeline from mocap to traditional in the middle of the production or is that way more effort than just follow what's already stablished and deal with its shortcomings?
@@fordesponja i dont think its easy to break down, i dont think the money vanished it was just poorly used frankly.
well if youre mocapping i wouldnt be surprised if they did the whole show in one longer session of renting out the studio, to stop using it is kinda gonna cook you because youre relying of the models because the designs are so detailed and specific from the hair to the style etc
100% with you on HXH 99
Oh God, yes. That logo was so low quality.
@@RexVergstrongyeah likely last minute I'm guessing
Thank you for making these incredible informative videos, I appreciate every single one of them. 🙌🏻
Glad you like them!
Stevem your drip is impeccable.
Haha thanks David
This needs to be a meditation. Slow methodical and lingering on the horror and weird world they find themselves in.
@33:30 ish: Why do I get the feeling that there were lots of in-jokes in this episode - "how many times can I say Spiraling" or "It's a Roundabout way"
Blooper reel to follow?
For me or them lol
cute hidamari sketch shirt
did not expect this but so happy i have it❤️
Enjoy
YOO, haven't had much time to watch but just saved a queue of a couple vids, and try to get through them this week, cheers and say hi to Stevems mum
23:20 No, that's definitely the rotoscoping, They did that thing that always used to happen in early green screen where the depth of the animation isn't right so it becomes very obvious that they are jpegs sliding around each other. IRL it's usually a lighting problem, here I think it's because the animation is too flat. Also, back in the running scene, one of the biggest problems is the guy second on the left is "animated"(using that term loosely here) running in a straight line, but is drawn as if they are running at as angle.
well i might have said it poorly but yeah i was getting at hes running straight but moving sideways and it feels weird the perspective in general is off with people chasing them being too big
19:55 I found it really interesting when you said that there's a right way to rotoscope and a wrong way, and if you get it wrong it looks weird and uncanny. Can you elaborate on that? I'd be really interested to learn more about that, do you know of any good resources for that?
it's not a hard or fast ruleset, usually having an understanding of animation principles helps, because often its about knowing what frames to keep in my opinion, i think rotoscoping on ones is quite hard to get right so its better to lower it down to 2s or 3s, then its about choosing the right frames and how you adjust them for animation if youre adding smears and stuff. It can also be about the amount of detail you take from the motion I tend to prefer rotoscope that's selective about the details it keeps.
19:41 ivan the terrible and his son but with a robot and more anger shock than despair shock
theres the ref point
Both Nagahama and Uki Sakate "Kirie" were in attendance for Otakon in Washington, DC this past Summer. Nagahama spent hours drawing for fans even after his allocated time. Uki was very kind to meet. While I was not able to meet Nagahama, I gained more respect for him going beyond expectations after hearing positive stories about the signing event. After watching the final product, i still enjoyed it despite the production problems of 2&3 that I agree still had some good cuts. I thought the ending stinger of the finale was really cool, too. I do believe a home release and some time could fix any further issues.
lets hope, i heard in the NY con he said he wouldnt be taking any uzumkai questions before the series came out which is painted differently now
Really great insights here! Did you work in production at some point?
Doubtful lol
@Stevem sorry, I was curious because of how you described the pipeline! Thank you for your work, I really enjoyed the video.
@@meghanlands2247no worries I think I read that wrong I don't plan to join any production and I haven't in the past, glad you enjoyed the video
I had yet to read a fair review of this anime until now. Excellent video as always, STEVEM!
I'd love it if Junji Ito's work was adapted into a Visual Novel type game. Or perhaps he could make an original story and make it into a VN. Closest thing to it is the recent indie VN title World of Horror which is all in black and white Ito style, but also a callback to old Japanese PC98 games.
There is a uzumaki visual novel haha but it's not very good it's basically a digitized version of the manga
At first i thougjt you were doing a rod serling narrative
I love this channel so much
thank youuu
12:17 oh, fugaku.... Now it makes so much sense.
Glad u posted, thought u quit
i posted last week
I just like plain ol 2d animation without the use of 3d models, but with strong fundamentals with that touch of human imperfection.
i wouldn't be surprised if some shot are strictly 2d but yeah that's not the approach here
27:50 The production of Uzumaki spiraled out.... XD
I think they hit it tonally which has been the main problem with other Ito's adaptations in my opinion, too bad the consistency and animation quality didn't get quite there.
Best animation channel in all of youtube
thank you!!!!!
Detroit Metal City. That explains the bizarre feeling when I watch character animation in Uzumaki 😂
I mean I don't know if there's massive overlap staff wise outside the director
I’m so glad you’re back!
ayyeeee
Was going to be destiny for you to cover this at some point
lol i did have a thought of doing it before it came out but i was going to talk music but then this happened
WB more like 🛡Wanna Bee what we found in a background in _Perfect Blue_
Huh
@@Stevem ruclips.net/video/0hG2fUhmJWo/видео.htmlsi=EmZ1t1k7iNMypAc_&t=49 maybe a Warner Bros hilarious logo design parodie by Satoshi Kon 🤔
where have u been brother
I was working on an oshii series and last week episode 1 came out on urusei yatsura this week it's uzumaki next week dallos
Oooooh shit that was way sooner that expected!
Completely unrelated but RIP Umezz
yeah a big influence on Ito
Woah stealing Geoff’s thumbnail 😏jkjk
I made it first lol! I knew this would happen too slow lol
@@Stevem lol, still great work and actually adding color to Uzumaki
Look, I never read this specific work, but I'm an Ito fan. Always heard about how great Uzumaki was. Always saw the famous panels floating around. I watched the show this week, thought it was absolutely great. I feel like the people complaining about this show are trying to hold this show to an impossible standard of the manga. I'm sure it's... frustrating, but I don't think the complaints hold up to anyone else. I don't get why we all continue to have such high standards given the clear constraints the industry puts on the medium. But I honestly thought the show looked great, and every time someone complains about this show I can't help but cringe a little. Seriously, the show looks fine, and these critiques come off to me, as a casual Uzumaki fan, nit-picky. The moments where animation looked uncanny or stilted, honestly felt additive to the style or unnoticeable. I remember the beach scene specifically feeling really interesting - I felt like their running was slow and off, and it legit reminded me of being in a nightmare where you try to run but move like a snail or feel off balance. Some of the clear animation errors created a release of tension, like it was almost for comedic effect, like the jack in the box scene. When we slow things down and analyze them, I'll admit that I definitely see the same faults you point out. But I was also just caught up in how the story was unfolding - since I was experiencing it for the first time! As an artist, I really value critique and think we need more of it as artists and creatives. But the amount of hate I've seen this show get feels so disproportionate to the quality of the final product, and how people who haven't read Uzumaki perceive it. I love horror anime, this was captivating in a way so many recent shows haven't been. It's so ironic that so many fans are willing to paint a stain the legacy of what is actually passable for others or even great. Feels entitled and so backwards to project so much a sense of failure on a process that you are so incredibly removed from - and again, something that was still great! Maybe no one reads this or you disagree, but if you haven't watched the show or read the manga, just watch the show! You'll enjoy it. If you read the manga first instead, I guess the old adage is true: the book is better than the movie. So maybe just read the book afterwards instead, you'll be satisfied with both.
I don't think there's anything wrong with not taking a lot of peoples reactions as gospel. Uzumaki is likely his most beloved story so there's gonna be a lot of pearl clutching either way, especially off the hype of so many years, but if you enjoyed it that's far more important than random responses online .
@ Thanks for the response. I get it. If someone butchered my favorite IP, I know I’d have a lot to say about it. And the story of the production hell it’s been in is interesting, worth covering, worth discussing - industry will continue to hinder true artistic expression, but it’s the system we live in. I just also can’t help but express how dissonant it feels when I know a lot of people who haven’t read the manga, but have watched so much analysis of this adaptation that now they think the show sucks because of what’s missing from the manga - which they’ve never read! I can’t help but feel like that’s is not how we should be consuming art - but it’s what’s happening. People are taking it as gospel. I hope people give this a fair shot for what it’s worth, even as something divergent from the quality of the written material.
@@usernamehandleyeah that's usually how the Internet machine is people watch someone else over watching the thing etc but over time it will be interesting to see how the response changes
Really loved it even despite the hiccups last episode was an easy rewatch
The analysis I was waiting for.
enjoy!
love your videos
thank you!
oh i am SAT for this one
This adaptation was big disappointment I've been waiting for this since 2020, and have thought that the long time it was taking was a good omen, it's sad to learn about the production hell it went through but its sadder to see it registered on the episodes that came after the first.
pot_shatter.mp3
Fr
I feel bad for Nagahama
I had no interest in this adaptation until I heard he was directing only to find out that he wasn’t even allowed to direct half the episodes and was only credited for the storyboards
Ever since aku no hana it seems like he could never catch a break
hopefully something comes his way
Awesome video. Well done.
Thank you very much!
Oh shit it's the kurlan naiskos
Honestly I knew this would tank from the very start, but was hoping it would still be entertaining.
The show already misstepped with ep´s one hurried pacing and the needlessly slavish devotion to do it exactly panel by panel but the rest was a near-comical crime. Adult Swim should have only released ep 1 as a special. Their anime output and the reputation of Ito adaptions, the middling live-action film somehow runs laps around this abortion, didn´t need another hit against their reputation. A truly bad adaptation Berserk 2016/17, TPNL S2, etc is worse than not having one. The stink on the IPs will remain for a decade or more. Imagine the drama if Calvin and Hobbes got one of these 2 to 3/10 adaptations.
I don't think a disappointing or bad adaptation is the end of the world, they're often forgotten
I think, beyond the animation, the show suffered a lot from a rushed pacing and inconsistent narrative, even in episode 1. Right now, I dont see a way the production could have delivered without at least triplicating the number of episodes or cutting half of the manga.
well its 19 chapters you could have covered that comfortably in 7 episodes
I despise the use of cgi in anime. Takes me out of the story and is painfully noticeable every time
I do not think that humans can meaningfully animate Junji Ito's works for now.
Maybe in 40 years, if the AI actually mature and we get a handle of direct brain-machine interface.
Before that, the man is too good on the graphic part - and his graphics too important to convey horror out of "thin air" - for any animation to pull off convincingly, within the limits of a normal budget .
Well ep 1 looks good for the boat part a movie just might be a better format
lol this makes berserk 2016 look less bad except that first episode.
it seemed consistently better than berserk tbh, i dont even know if 2016 has any good cuts
1 episode is solid. all anime productions have issues because capitalism. glad something got made rather than throwing it all away.
yeah at least we saw it etc
Junji ito no Bs is cursed when it comes to adaptations gyo was terrible the anthology maniac and the collection were pisspoor animated . And then this uzumaki the first episode good second episode terrible third episode improvement but the pacing was so Damn fast that it just was bad from there. I would say I don’t trust adult swim wit anime anymore 😂but idk rooster fighter and Lazarus is the final straw
I think it's always gonna vary on the production I don't even know if swim is the crutch for if it's anything in particular they've been producing anime in part for 20 years
Just some advice, please have sponsor transitions that aren't meant to annoy the viewer.
hi stevem
Hi
10:06 bro the sound effect doesn't playyyy
nvm you played it later
@@SapLowI had to rerecord that section so maybe I had something else in mind at first lol I guess I could have fit it in that little hole too
@@Stevem all good brudda!
I have to disagree with "animation unfriendliness" of manga's drawings. They are pretty simple. Other problem is that there is just not enough people who are good enough to draw even ok looking art. Twitter lies about quantity and quality of talent. Also there is management issues on every project like that and lack of sense in using 3d.
go draw a sequence right now with those designs that's on model and tell me how easy it is, you are contradicting yourself even in the second setense with people who are good enough thus it can't be eaasy if their arent enough, especially down to the hair or shading technique
New disaster video!
❤❤❤❤❤❤
27:46 ba dum tss
I still think Uzumaki did not need an animation, nothing from Junji Ito needs animation.
People are just so ravenous and hungry to consume shit they like they rather have slop quick than a proper meal.
Maybe we don't need to animate every popular thing we find. Artists should know when to say no to consumerism greed to avoid the bastardization of their craft, but i guess money talks and care walks.
Well we don't need any adaptation ever really do we, but that's besides the point we live in such markets where you have to make money to survive so If any artist wants that it's not really a big deal even though realistically it's not their choice it's the right holder which is the publisher
@Stevem absolutely, stop adaptation altogether. Don't sell your soul for money. Let creatures keep their intellectual property and definitely don't sell it to a conglomerate.
there is no ¨need of it¨. but people are always wanting for a good animated adaptation of Ito's mangas because they know it could have a lot of potential if done right. it just would require true dedication, and the anime industry is rarely goig to do that
well to stop completely would be absurd, creators keeping their Ip rights is also a bit of a pipedream in a lot of instances because of how these industries work
5:41 no, it is not as difficult as you trying present it. It is at this point standard procedure. Sometimes only static images are used, sometimes full motion capture. But it is not making series twice. Mocap is made with rough approximation of a model, it can speed up the process quite a bit and serve as preview. In case of Uzumaki though, mocap doesn't seem to be great and it wasn't communicated to artists well enough how to work with it. Can't say anything about budget, probably not as expensive as you would think.
what are you on about they have to draw the entire show again they arent leaving the models on screen??? That's making the show twice
Great video!
Thanks!