I believe the review would be much different with a carbon post. It would be interesting to hear what they thought about the ride if the post were swapped out, but I get it they are reviewing the bike as is. I have a Warbird with a carbon post, the ride is plush. The review is really spot on. Great job guys.
The 4K level Warbird is outshined by the stigmata only due to its spec choices. Why the Warbird has a cheap seat post verse the stigmata with an ec70 seat post and why the Warbird has cheap dt Swiss 370 hubs that are non upgradable verse the stigmata with the drastically better dt Swiss 350 hubs. It seems like they were trying to be $200 cheaper by cutting $800 worth in specs. My dealer only had this level of Warbird to try and it was nothing special compared to many other bikes in the $4,000 to $4,500 price range budget I had.
I like that they made room for 27.5x2" which is the same diameter as 700x32c - I think that's the sweet spot that most these bikes don't quite make it to (I'd like up to 2.2" for if I really wanted to go wild, but 2" is enough).
With all the mounts, I’d love to know how it handles with a bit of load. You know, for when you don’t want to see your family for days at a time (unless they ride with you.)
How does the Warbird compare to the Stigmata with respect to ride quality? I would think these two are closer to each other wrt geometry/purpose on the gravel spectrum than your sub categories suggest.
I'd say the Warbird offers a smoother ride. The Stigmata is pretty good, but this is noticeably more comfortable in my opinion. Handling between the two is pretty different, too. The Warbird is much more stable.
Funny I found the stigmata with its carbon seat (ec70, great seat post) post to be decently more comfortable and quicker turning, dt Swiss 350 star hubs over warbird more basic hubs. The Warbird was decent but felt the Stigmata was better and much better components and ultimately wound up with the Open UP, since my top budget was $4,500 usd range. Felt the Warbird could be so much more if they didn’t cheap out on components verse other bikes at its price point.
This is the WarBird. The WarRoad is also very handsome, but the WarBird is more beautiful: its chain stays are raised at the rear end have a more organic, finer shape than the WarRoad's.
It's unfortunate that Salsa removed the fork crown headlight mount in 2020 models. The reason was, apparently, that many halfwits used it to mount pannier racks rater than headlights, as intended. Still, Salsa shouldn't have done away with this extremely useful feature.
I own one of these, and find that it bobs terribly at high cadence. (Over 90 RPM). I've had 2 other riders try it and it happens for them as well. Climbs stiff! But the cadence issue is terrible on the tarmac.
The WarBird 2019 / 2020 is among My very favourite gravel / adventure bikes. It is a Beauty! And with a pair of proper wheels, it's fast! It's also compatible with both mudguards and a rear rack (the latter requires a use of a seatpost clamp or a seatpost collar with eyelets for attaching the top end of the rack to). I have the 2019 version, and, while it's visually indistinguishable from the 2020 models (save for the colour and the assembly), the 2019 model has one significant advantage over its successor: a fork crown mount for the headlight and even an internal hub dynamo cable guide. It is a shame that Salsa decided to omit these features from the 2020 model.
Great to hear you love this bike. The fork on the 2020 version does feature internal hub dynamo cable routing, but lacks the fork crown mount. The fork on the 2019 version was recalled and so this may explain why the 2020 version is slightly different. Dave Rome @ CyclingTips.
@@VeloVeloVeloTV Thank you for the clarification on the 2020 version. Correct, the early 2019 batch of forks was recalled, but by the time I bought mine (in May 2019), Salsa had apparently resolved the issue. I must say, one thing that still worries me a bit - is the brake calliper mounts, particularly the front one: the apertures for the calliper bolts appear to have very loose tolerances (and are neither perfectly round, nor perfectly oval in cross section) and the carbon around them does not look as rigid as one would expect (it looks frayed there). That's really the only complaint I have about the WarBird, really. I suspect, mine might have been from the recalled batch that wasn't sent back to Salsa because of logistic costs and complications, but so far so good: the bike has served me impeccably (save for some issues with the Sram Force eTap AXS, which gave me and the bike mechanics considerable headache, but was ultimately found out to have to do with incorrect installation of the front derailleur, not with the frame.
Wasupwitdat1 Mofiki definitely cheaped out on hubs as well, dt Swiss 370 which are not upgradable verse stigmata with dt Swiss 350, drastically better. Minus shimano specs everything else is bottom of the barrel, I guess they were hoping people will see group set plus carbon frame and not dig too deep.
I don't quite understand the handling aspect. Granted I'm used to S. Florida singletrack that is like spaghetti and riding slack 29er trail bikes so when I see 70.75deg HTA. I currently ride a Trek Boone Disc which is a bit slacker than most would think and only .25deg slacker HTA, negligible STA because I run a setback post. 10mm wheelbase (trek is shorter), I don't know the trail figures and I know that effects handling but I just don't see all this talk about handling... I know HTA and trail figures make a difference, but we can't really discount the long chainstays and larger tires creating more vagueness and less responsiveness. I'm on the fence though and considering this bike and the Warroad. A lot of reviewers are saying that the Warroad isn't as "spirited" of a ride as they hoped. Unfortunately I live in Belgium and its not exactly easy to test ride either one of them....
The Salsa Journeyman. Looks lille a tractor compared to the WarBird, but has an overall comparable geometry. It's aluminium, the welds, unfortunately, aren't smoothed, but otherwise it's fine.
@@antikytheramechanism7909 The DT Swiss they have is their bottom of the range aluminum wheelset, where the Giant has their own brand carbon wheels with DT hubs. You could buy that same DT Swiss wheelset and the complete Giant, and still have money left over before you got to the price of the Salsa. Also the Giant has Ultegra with the RX clutch, and Praxis carbon cranks, and still costs $500 less than the Salsa. If you'd like to pay more for worse spec, go for it
“Sub compact gearing” (48/32) is still fairly big for gravel/off road riding, especially if you’re not racing. I still don’t understand why companies don’t offer even more compact gearing? How do they expect for people who don’t race to spin up climbs or even people who use similar bikes fully loaded/for touring?
You have talked about how the bikes handle on the gravel but what about the road? I want to ride my bike to the gravel and back home. I live at 6500' and want to ride the trails that exceed 8000', so I would like to know about a bike that is capable of conquering the road and steep climbs of the gravel.
Don't worry, they aren't going to be selling to many more bikes at this price in today's environment. I think people are learning from this pandemic that they need to start banking more money for hard times.
For that money, you should be getting a carbon seatpost? That's just being a cheapskate... And a general question about Gravel racing; are there any races which would be considered 'gnarly' / rough or are they all relatively 'smooth'? I'm aware of races like the Dirty Kanza, Belgian Waffle, and the Dirty Reiver here in the UK.
Trying the Warbird, the bike cheaped out in a few areas for its price point, including wheels, the stigmata and some others give you dt Swiss 350 star hubs over the basic cheapest noisy dt Swiss 370 hub that can’t be upgraded so you’d have to replace the wheel set. Along with the seat post the stigmata again gives you an Easton ec70 seat post which are great. Warbird has lots of potential just poor choices in specs for the money and you’d wind up spending an extra grand to upgrade to others specs.
Mr xXx depends on what you like I have a titanium Moots gravel bike and carbon Open UP gravel bike. Being tall, both are XL frames, which makes the Moots two pounds heavier. The Moots was also still $1,200 more expensive. Titanium is a softer ride which on a large frame also means much less power transfer and the bike feels slow and harder to pedal up hill, granted the extra weight also helps with this. Which makes the titanium bike almost never used unless I want to go in some very rocky one track stuff and don’t want to chance ruining my favorite carbon gravel bike. Or if I’m taking some jumps with the kids and don’t want to possibly crash with my favorite bike. The titanium became my beater bike since it’s not as fun or fast or light as a daily carbon bike but it is very strong.
That Aussie guy or whatevah... He doesn't even know what he's talking about. The GRX 810 is not a generation, because all GRX's are first of their kind, and they were delivered (guess what), all together. So, it is a version, an iteration. But not a generation. At least that 27.2 carbon upgrade suggestion for the seatpost was good.
Aussie guy here. "Generation" was certainly the wrong choice of word ("version" is what I should have said). What's captured here is a wonderful combination of sleep deprivation and unrehearsed conversation. Dave @ CyclingTips.
If you are worried about buying things from China. There are some companies that make their stuff in the us. I bought a lynskey gravel , titanium, loaded (hydraulic ultegra) for a little over $3600.
If you want American made gravel bike in carbon there’s Allied Able, expensive but very nice, Santa Cruz Stigmata. Titanium there’s Moots but again expensive, heavier and softer ride with less power transfer. But most of your components will still be made in China. You can find some US wheel sets but group sets out side of China unless you can spend 10k on a custom build let me know, there’s really none.
@@Peter-tc3ep Even the titanium and some steel metals/ tubes come to the US from China. All the US laborer building the bike has to do is know how to weld which I'm sure the Chinese know how to do also. Building a bike is not rocket science or even as complex as the electronics in our gadgets and devices and those devices can be had for way less. I can't understand how paying $5000 for a bicycle frame ever got to be acceptable but it's the main reason I will never buy from a US bike builder. I assume these builders think their talent is worth more than $100 and hour or more labor. The US buys Billions of dollars worth of goods from China every day so if you think you are not getting your monies worth when you buy a bike from China I don't know what to say to you except go spend your money foolishly, it's your money.
@@wasupwitdat1mofiki94 you might have a point on the location where they source their material, but on my part it is not about how much cheaper I can get it. It is about something I can afford where at least I know there are some people being employed manufacturing the things I need. It's not much but it is something.
![Yeat & Quavo - 5BRAZY [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4XxnTAwyxus/mqdefault.jpg)
I believe the review would be much different with a carbon post. It would be interesting to hear what they thought about the ride if the post were swapped out, but I get it they are reviewing the bike as is. I have a Warbird with a carbon post, the ride is plush. The review is really spot on. Great job guys.
I have the 2019 ultegra di2 with a carbon post and its easily the most comfortable bike I've ridden
The 4K level Warbird is outshined by the stigmata only due to its spec choices. Why the Warbird has a cheap seat post verse the stigmata with an ec70 seat post and why the Warbird has cheap dt Swiss 370 hubs that are non upgradable verse the stigmata with the drastically better dt Swiss 350 hubs. It seems like they were trying to be $200 cheaper by cutting $800 worth in specs. My dealer only had this level of Warbird to try and it was nothing special compared to many other bikes in the $4,000 to $4,500 price range budget I had.
What´s your take on the difficulty for turning that they mention?
@@GabrielBolanosR The bike is stable at the cost of sharp handling.
I like that they made room for 27.5x2" which is the same diameter as 700x32c - I think that's the sweet spot that most these bikes don't quite make it to (I'd like up to 2.2" for if I really wanted to go wild, but 2" is enough).
I own the 2022…so fast, and so easy on the body when banging around trails and bumps/cracks in the road.
With all the mounts, I’d love to know how it handles with a bit of load. You know, for when you don’t want to see your family for days at a time (unless they ride with you.)
That was something we were hoping to check out during the test trip, but we just didn't have enough time.
How does the Warbird compare to the Stigmata with respect to ride quality? I would think these two are closer to each other wrt geometry/purpose on the gravel spectrum than your sub categories suggest.
I'd say the Warbird offers a smoother ride. The Stigmata is pretty good, but this is noticeably more comfortable in my opinion. Handling between the two is pretty different, too. The Warbird is much more stable.
Funny I found the stigmata with its carbon seat (ec70, great seat post) post to be decently more comfortable and quicker turning, dt Swiss 350 star hubs over warbird more basic hubs. The Warbird was decent but felt the Stigmata was better and much better components and ultimately wound up with the Open UP, since my top budget was $4,500 usd range. Felt the Warbird could be so much more if they didn’t cheap out on components verse other bikes at its price point.
Thanks again for your content! Excited to hear about the warroad!
This is the WarBird. The WarRoad is also very handsome, but the WarBird is more beautiful: its chain stays are raised at the rear end have a more organic, finer shape than the WarRoad's.
It's unfortunate that Salsa removed the fork crown headlight mount in 2020 models. The reason was, apparently, that many halfwits used it to mount pannier racks rater than headlights, as intended. Still, Salsa shouldn't have done away with this extremely useful feature.
I own one of these, and find that it bobs terribly at high cadence. (Over 90 RPM). I've had 2 other riders try it and it happens for them as well. Climbs stiff! But the cadence issue is terrible on the tarmac.
It would have been interesting to also test these bikes with 650b wheels
Hopefully no more recalls regarding the fork
The WarBird 2019 / 2020 is among My very favourite gravel / adventure bikes. It is a Beauty! And with a pair of proper wheels, it's fast! It's also compatible with both mudguards and a rear rack (the latter requires a use of a seatpost clamp or a seatpost collar with eyelets for attaching the top end of the rack to).
I have the 2019 version, and, while it's visually indistinguishable from the 2020 models (save for the colour and the assembly), the 2019 model has one significant advantage over its successor: a fork crown mount for the headlight and even an internal hub dynamo cable guide. It is a shame that Salsa decided to omit these features from the 2020 model.
Great to hear you love this bike.
The fork on the 2020 version does feature internal hub dynamo cable routing, but lacks the fork crown mount. The fork on the 2019 version was recalled and so this may explain why the 2020 version is slightly different.
Dave Rome @ CyclingTips.
@@VeloVeloVeloTV Thank you for the clarification on the 2020 version. Correct, the early 2019 batch of forks was recalled, but by the time I bought mine (in May 2019), Salsa had apparently resolved the issue.
I must say, one thing that still worries me a bit - is the brake calliper mounts, particularly the front one: the apertures for the calliper bolts appear to have very loose tolerances (and are neither perfectly round, nor perfectly oval in cross section) and the carbon around them does not look as rigid as one would expect (it looks frayed there). That's really the only complaint I have about the WarBird, really. I suspect, mine might have been from the recalled batch that wasn't sent back to Salsa because of logistic costs and complications, but so far so good: the bike has served me impeccably (save for some issues with the Sram Force eTap AXS, which gave me and the bike mechanics considerable headache, but was ultimately found out to have to do with incorrect installation of the front derailleur, not with the frame.
A bike for over 4000$ shouldn't be keeping the pricepoint down with a bad seatpost! 6:19
No doubt they probably used cheap Chinese bearings throughout the bike too.
Wasupwitdat1 Mofiki definitely cheaped out on hubs as well, dt Swiss 370 which are not upgradable verse stigmata with dt Swiss 350, drastically better. Minus shimano specs everything else is bottom of the barrel, I guess they were hoping people will see group set plus carbon frame and not dig too deep.
I’m decking between the Warbird and a Niner RLT RDO, would the Niner be more agile?
Niner
Could you also test the warroad please?
Same here, reeeally want to hear the difference in those two
And maybe the Journeyman for the more budget conscious guys
Yes same here.
... and the Norco Search XR Carbon. And the Accent Feral. And the Accent Freak. And the Genesis Datum.
I don't quite understand the handling aspect.
Granted I'm used to S. Florida singletrack that is like spaghetti and riding slack 29er trail bikes so when I see 70.75deg HTA. I currently ride a Trek Boone Disc which is a bit slacker than most would think and only .25deg slacker HTA, negligible STA because I run a setback post. 10mm wheelbase (trek is shorter), I don't know the trail figures and I know that effects handling but I just don't see all this talk about handling... I know HTA and trail figures make a difference, but we can't really discount the long chainstays and larger tires creating more vagueness and less responsiveness.
I'm on the fence though and considering this bike and the Warroad. A lot of reviewers are saying that the Warroad isn't as "spirited" of a ride as they hoped. Unfortunately I live in Belgium and its not exactly easy to test ride either one of them....
are there any cheaper aluminium alloy version of warbird??
The Salsa Journeyman. Looks lille a tractor compared to the WarBird, but has an overall comparable geometry. It's aluminium, the welds, unfortunately, aren't smoothed, but otherwise it's fine.
I looked at this bike, and bought a Giant Revolt Adv 0.
Mint green with Giant brand wheels? No thanks. The Salsa has DT Swiss and GRX.
@@antikytheramechanism7909 The DT Swiss they have is their bottom of the range aluminum wheelset, where the Giant has their own brand carbon wheels with DT hubs. You could buy that same DT Swiss wheelset and the complete Giant, and still have money left over before you got to the price of the Salsa. Also the Giant has Ultegra with the RX clutch, and Praxis carbon cranks, and still costs $500 less than the Salsa. If you'd like to pay more for worse spec, go for it
“Sub compact gearing” (48/32) is still fairly big for gravel/off road riding, especially if you’re not racing.
I still don’t understand why companies don’t offer even more compact gearing? How do they expect for people who don’t race to spin up climbs or even people who use similar bikes fully loaded/for touring?
The gearing is actually 48/31 on the GRX. So with the 34t rear cassette you are getting better than 1:1
My point still stands, 32/31 is not a big difference? Even lower sub 1:1 ratios are needed for things I mentioned above.
AstrayAgrarian: I put GRX on my bike. Rear derailleur easily fits an 11-40 cassette. Low gear is 31-40, high gear is 48-11. That’s been a good range.
I think, 48/32 is about perfect, especially in combination with a Shimano rear cassette.
Go for an eThirteen 9/50 1x setup. Lightest out there with XTR derailleur. I use a 38t praxis chainring for climbing up to 20% grades.
You have talked about how the bikes handle on the gravel but what about the road? I want to ride my bike to the gravel and back home. I live at 6500' and want to ride the trails that exceed 8000', so I would like to know about a bike that is capable of conquering the road and steep climbs of the gravel.
It bobs like hell at higher cadence than 90. Drives me nuts, and I am thinking about swapping the frameset due to this.
I wasn't ready for the hefty price tag below 6k for the GRX version
Yeah it's overpriced for what you get in my opinion.
Don't worry, they aren't going to be selling to many more bikes at this price in today's environment. I think people are learning from this pandemic that they need to start banking more money for hard times.
@@wasupwitdat1mofiki94 lol this comment aged like milk
Salsa has such good Gravel and MTB's
Giant Revolt Advanced 0 with carbon wheels is about $3600....LOADED....and the NINER RLT RDO 4 Star are much better bikes for the money.....
Nice bike but súper expensive. You can get the canyon CF for almost half the price with better components.
Can you? This one is so much prettier! And it is fast!
No you cant
For that money, you should be getting a carbon seatpost? That's just being a cheapskate...
And a general question about Gravel racing; are there any races which would be considered 'gnarly' / rough or are they all relatively 'smooth'? I'm aware of races like the Dirty Kanza, Belgian Waffle, and the Dirty Reiver here in the UK.
Heard of Grinduro? Some sections are straight up single track.
They could make it full titanium for that price...
Trying the Warbird, the bike cheaped out in a few areas for its price point, including wheels, the stigmata and some others give you dt Swiss 350 star hubs over the basic cheapest noisy dt Swiss 370 hub that can’t be upgraded so you’d have to replace the wheel set. Along with the seat post the stigmata again gives you an Easton ec70 seat post which are great. Warbird has lots of potential just poor choices in specs for the money and you’d wind up spending an extra grand to upgrade to others specs.
Mr xXx depends on what you like I have a titanium Moots gravel bike and carbon Open UP gravel bike. Being tall, both are XL frames, which makes the Moots two pounds heavier. The Moots was also still $1,200 more expensive. Titanium is a softer ride which on a large frame also means much less power transfer and the bike feels slow and harder to pedal up hill, granted the extra weight also helps with this. Which makes the titanium bike almost never used unless I want to go in some very rocky one track stuff and don’t want to chance ruining my favorite carbon gravel bike. Or if I’m taking some jumps with the kids and don’t want to possibly crash with my favorite bike. The titanium became my beater bike since it’s not as fun or fast or light as a daily carbon bike but it is very strong.
3rd! 😂 good reviews got the canyon grail AL 7.0 Grx 👌🏻
okay so basically brand new Suzuki motorcycle and salsa bicycle cost almost the same ... ridiculous
That Aussie guy or whatevah... He doesn't even know what he's talking about. The GRX 810 is not a generation, because all GRX's are first of their kind, and they were delivered (guess what), all together. So, it is a version, an iteration. But not a generation. At least that 27.2 carbon upgrade suggestion for the seatpost was good.
Semantics, yawn.
Aussie guy here.
"Generation" was certainly the wrong choice of word ("version" is what I should have said). What's captured here is a wonderful combination of sleep deprivation and unrehearsed conversation.
Dave @ CyclingTips.
@@VeloVeloVeloTV Thanks for clarifying
To all carbon frame manufacturers if it’s not a BSA bb it’s an automatic skip, kick rocks sun.
Where is it made? I"m avoiding anything made in China from now on, as much as possible.
I'm going to be buying more from China. Some good companies are evolving out of there. Products elsewhere in the World are just to damn expensive.
If you are worried about buying things from China. There are some companies that make their stuff in the us. I bought a lynskey gravel , titanium, loaded (hydraulic ultegra) for a little over $3600.
If you want American made gravel bike in carbon there’s Allied Able, expensive but very nice, Santa Cruz Stigmata. Titanium there’s Moots but again expensive, heavier and softer ride with less power transfer. But most of your components will still be made in China. You can find some US wheel sets but group sets out side of China unless you can spend 10k on a custom build let me know, there’s really none.
@@Peter-tc3ep Even the titanium and some steel metals/ tubes come to the US from China. All the US laborer building the bike has to do is know how to weld which I'm sure the Chinese know how to do also. Building a bike is not rocket science or even as complex as the electronics in our gadgets and devices and those devices can be had for way less. I can't understand how paying $5000 for a bicycle frame ever got to be acceptable but it's the main reason I will never buy from a US bike builder. I assume these builders think their talent is worth more than $100 and hour or more labor. The US buys Billions of dollars worth of goods from China every day so if you think you are not getting your monies worth when you buy a bike from China I don't know what to say to you except go spend your money foolishly, it's your money.
@@wasupwitdat1mofiki94 you might have a point on the location where they source their material, but on my part it is not about how much cheaper I can get it. It is about something I can afford where at least I know there are some people being employed manufacturing the things I need. It's not much but it is something.
Guy's had too many beers...