QUEER REPRESENTATION ON VISUAL MEDIA - ALLEGORY, CODING & QUEERBAITING | Video Essay
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- Let's take a short look at the history of how queer identities were represented on visual media.
(English adaptation of "REPRESENTAÇÃO QUEER NO AUDIOVISUAL | Alegoria, Coding e Queerbaiting" due to requests)
This video is criminally underrated
that scene from community where Shirley's perception of the devil comes in with a chain saw and shout's "GAY MARRIAGE" never fails to make me laugh
Community is golden
the cut away to the titanic after "wanna know what happened to the ship?" killed me lmao
I'm a trans man and literally there are only two movies I know of that have trans men. In the first one a trans guy is murdered and the other is a German romantic comedy...
This really, REALLY saddens me. It sucks.
I hope the guys with the checks are listening.
I never watched it but I know that the film "three generations" is about a trans man. Hope this helps
silence of the lambs ,psycho????
@@ariannajoellecorciulo3142 yes i've seen that film. sadly though the film is more about the way his mothers have to deal with his transition, rather than the actual trans character himself. but hey, at least its something.
theres a TV show called "The Fosters" that had two trans men characters, and one becomes a love interest. It was the first show/movie that i saw a trans man character in, actually.
19:54 I’m not even mad. I’m just disappointed they went so low for nothing. I’m not even a fan of the ship or the show and this still hurts my soul.
Me too, it made me so angry. It felt exploitative and unfair
i just came to the comments so i dont need to look at that im in pain
imagine being a die hard teen wolf fan and stereo shipper that shit crushed my spirit
Steve & Bucky were literally the *perfect* gay love story for a big Hollywood franchise - this is Disney so I never expected them to be canon but I'm still not over the missed opportunity
we as the LGBT community had *SO MUCH* to gain from it, whereas the straight audience really had nothing to lose. Yeah, in this continuity Captain America is bisexual with a believable male love interest...he's still Captain America. Even those who didn't personally interpret it as romantic, which is fine, have got to acknowledge the potential was there to go said route 😔
beyond that and the depression fest that was IT Chapter 2....2019 broke my little gay heart beyond repair
I hate it on how in Endgame they choose Steve to have an incest kiss than a gay kiss
(He kissed Sharon Carter then apparently married Peggy making Sharon his niece)
@@olivebutter4126 especially when, if Steve is gonna survive Endgame and settle down with somebody....who makes more sense?
- the woman he knew for only three years, had moved on with her own life & family, literally told him "sometimes it's best to start over" and who he got closure on
- the man he's known for pretty much his entire life, who defended and *saw* the real him when no-one else did, who he BECAME A FUGITIVE FOR and who he kept losing with no closure
IT 2 was an enjoyable movie but awful in terms of bury your gays. And no I'm not referring to the scene at the beginning, it was in the book so I didn't care and knew it was coming.
It was Richie's ending that was just fucking awful and morbid, frankly.
@@bisexualmajima I legit fucking cried over it on the drive back it was so bleak and depressing, no other film has done that (not a compliment). Just felt like the most soul crushing and hopeless depiction of being LGBT possible, with *no* uplift
Yeesss! In Endgame, when Steve was saying goodbye to Bucky before using the time travel thingy, I legit got a feeling that they were actually going to kiss, but of course they didn't.
And if that wasn't bad enough, Steve just leaves Bucky behind. I hate that ending so much. Steve knew how hard it was to get used to the modern world and Bucky was the only other person who knew what that felt like, but then he abandons Bucky to be with Peggy. Literally how to destroy an entire character in one scene, I still can't believe they made Steve do that.
Saw Sterek and clicked as fast as I could. It still doesn’t sit right with me to this day that they didn’t make it canon after hinting their romance in Teen Wolf and then suddenly just not progress it in any way at all or at least make Stiles bisexual. Queerbaiting is really hurtful and bad overall for LGBTQ+ community. It needs to stop. Awesome video
It seemed like the higher ups told them to squash it fast if they wanted to keep the show going. That's just my take.
Also they did the exact same shit with Liam and Theo... I lost hope for Sterek as soon as Stiles and Lydia finally started being canon, but I really thought Liam and Theo would actually be canon. I mean why the fuck did Theo glance at Liam’s lips in the elevator if he wasn’t gonna kiss him damnit
read that at shrek and i didnt even question it lmao
But what about Jackson travesty? In season 2 they made it a big thing about Jackson being so in love with Lydia that she was the only person capable of breaking through to him. And then some seasons later... Look he's suddenly gay! And everyone and their neighbor apparently knew about it. It felt cheap, undeserved and as a bone to gay audience.
Robert Shields Jr. the way it could’ve saved their already dying ratings but oh well...
i've seen and read many things about this topic but surprisingly your video still gave me some more insight:) it's a pity that great youtubers don't always get the audience they deserve
HOW HAVE SO FEW PEOPLE SEEN THIS?! your channel deserves more attention °^°
You can try to fix that by sharing the video around social media, y'know...
are we just gonna ignore that super brief Destiel clip?
I wonder if it would be an alternative for marvel to create a film that is an integral part of the MCU, featuring a gay character, fully addressing the fact that the character is gay but, hear me out, spending a much lower budget in order to be able to have a more limited international release (in particular avoiding Russia, China, etc). I think that would be a great foot on the door, as we would have our gay hero in places where it is legal, the hero will still be featured on ensemble films (without addressing the hero's sexuality) and international audiences will suffer in indirect punishment, fans of the MCU will notice they are missing out on parts of the full story due to their country's laws. If studios had a spine I think this would be possible. Alas, they don't.
Honestly, I can’t wait for the young avengers, I am so excited.
(Ps. I never read the comics; I just do research.)
Brilliant!!! Thoughtful and well presented! Thank you so much
the fact that little old me saw pictures of the "we are on a ship" sterek thing on tumblr and legit started to watch the show thinking the actors were in a relationship. The erasure of bi Stiles will forever be my bigest pop culture trauma
who gave you the right to end the sterek discussion with adele singing in the background??? I'ma read some 300k sterek time travel fix it au now *opens AO3*
Super happy I found this channel!! I love this kinda stuff and I'm so happy to find another channel that uploads long vids about lgbtq+ representation in media.
Let me try and explain what it was like watching this as a gay man: *plays same scene with wildest dreams playing in the background* 😂😂😂
Watching interviews where the actors say that, yeah, the characters do seem a bit gay, always makes me smile until I rewatch it and realize the audience is over there like HAHAAHA WHAT A FUNNY JOKE and then I’m sad all over again. No homo tho.
Damn this was so good! I found this through Allison's twitter, I hope this video gets the attention it deserves :)
Those stats you brought up at the end about TV are really encouraging. I'm only 22 and within my lifetime of watching TV I can definitively say I've seen a huge difference in explicit queer rep in TV and also movies to some extent. I really don't think something like Love, Simon could have been mass released in 2000. With the rise of streaming, TV shows seem to be the new frontier for artistic expression, and due to their accessibility on the internet (as opposed to cable in the past, where sponsors and TV networks could censor things much easier), I'm gonna be optimistic and predict that representation on TV will keep growing exponentially over the next few years. Hopefully movies (again, particularly streaming movies) will follow suit.
Thank you so much!
This was a really great video! You did a great job putting it together and really articulating your point well. I can't wait to see what else you make! :D
Thank you! Work on the second video has already started. ^_^
@@therainbowintheroom3038 Awesome! Its gonna be so awesome to see the final product ^u^
this is such a good video! A very thorough and interesting essay!
from what I've seen of interviews with Hochelin, Lydia's actress, and Dylan O'Brian, they were all for Sterek BUT they said others involved in the show didn't want it and when they'd put hints in their scenes for the last episodes (and others) they were cut out.
do you happen to have a ref for that interview?
That video is fantastic and very explanatory.
Thank you so much!
Great video ! If I may give two humble advice, you could consider adding a low pass filter, or a de-esser, I was listening to it on crappy built in speaker without access to headphones or hifi, had to eq down several db 16Khz and 8Khz on my built int sound card eq as I was barely able to understand or just stand the audio of you talking before that, I really hope few people experienced the same and didn't gave up as your content is really worth it ^^ There's also tricks to reduce "saliva" noise, might google that, as you exist mostly through your voice, I had the same issues when recording online lessons years ago, and I wasn't aware at that time there's things to mitigate that little "issue", I wish this helps a bit ^^
I am so upset! I only know Teen Wolf from Tumblr and this whole time I thought Sterek was CANON!
A very interesting and provocative analysis. I appreciate that, most of all. It is important to ask real questions, and I think that is what you are doing. Often we resort to what we know or think we know and do not question it. Please, continue your good work both personally and in public.
13:19 and judging by the amount of fanfics with Taylor Swift lyric titles, this is exactly what goes through the minds of a bunch of authors too. One of my favourite fanfics has a title from Treacherous by Taylor, and another has a title from the other side of the door
This was amazingly researched and put together, thank you so much for taking the time to make this and providing edjucation :)))
One of the biggest Sterek ironies is that those involved with the show went out of their way to say things like Posey's "Weird" comment, and Davis saying that "Fans don't control the show!" But then the show itself went out of it's ways to add in two different female characters to make that "Weird ship that Davis wouldn't be told to write!" a thing. Both of them were even related to Derek. Cora was Derek with boobs. With many of the same intense interactions with Stiles - clearly leading to a romance between them. Then her actress left, and they brought in Malia. Who again filled all the same tropes, but had no time for development because they needed to make it explicit that Stiles was straight. The show LOVED Sterek, they just loved Sterek when it was straight.
1:38 This clip is genuinely adorable and heartwarming. I hope the context to it isn't bad or used for comedic effect.. /g
Whaaat why does this have so few views!! It was really good and interesting!! I'll definitely subscribe, you make great stuff
This is such an amazing essay. Great job omg
good review/essay :)
It’s odd how late I’m seeing this but none the less I’m glad I’m seeing this
I'm binging all your content right now. Why did RUclips take so long to recommend this??
what a fantastic video
Brilliant video. I'm looking forward to more.
Amazing video! As an aroace, I almost only exclusively watch media if I know it has canonical queerness. Even if I’m not a gay man or lesbian, I’m attracted to their stories and chemistry. As far as I can tell, heterosexual romances as portrayed in media are far more predictable and packed with archaic gender power dynamics. Again, aroace woman so no thanks.
I feel like my favorite show Hannibal is an interesting example as the show hinges on two men falling in twisted, codependent love with each other and the consequences that has for them and everyone around them. While canon and queer, i wouldn’t really call it gay representation bc one is still apparently straight? At least, the show runner has said this multiple times after the shows finale where Will leaves his wife, stepson and life behind to run away with his cannibal boyfriend. The show runner, Bryan Fuller, an openly gay man, is convinced that if Hannibal and Will were to be in a sexual relationship on top of romantic it would be “sexualizing them”. Very strange to me, because this show has depicted these characters sweaty, shirtless, tied up and in sexual relationships with women, but ok. Sure. I’d say Hannibal is a step above Teen Wolf style queerbaiting but a step below Moonlight or Call Me By Your Name.
You want a good show with that kinda stuff? How about Sailor Moon?
Gahhhh you have so many good things to say in this video. But please don't forget the way Sterek shippers treated Tyler Posey leading up to and after he made that comment in an interview. He was sent SO much hate, including literal death threats, and hate mail to his mother, for disliking a ship. I'll never forgive the Sterek fandom for the way they treated Scott McCall and Tyler Posey.
Great video, really well researched too!
Amazing essay!! And teen wolf is something of a old conundrum for me, on one hand the shows lost it's interest to me after the third season, on the other hand i find a good chunk of the fandom... uncomfortable, to say the least, the amount of stiles x older men work is really freaky, like stiles x peter, stiles x chris argent, even with his own effing dad! and sterek is weird, in canon it was only bait and badly handled by actors and directors and in fanon, apart from the age gap debate, there are many fics authors that seems to go above and beyond to makes the story extra rapey, i know it's probably because of the very strong ABO influence in the fandom but still.
I think some people grab the whole Derek being an alpha thing and run with it without so much as bothering to read the Wikipedia summary of BDSM relationships.
@@therainbowintheroom3038 yeah, lot of dub con/non con.
Transformative fandom is meant to be a fun sandbox where you can do anything with a piece of fiction or the characters/ships, so yeah, that includes noncon, incest and ships that would be awful or weird in canon or IRL; it's all just fanfiction at the end of the day. If people are minding their own business, shipping their ships and writing their own weird fics, tagging them correctly, etc., then there's nothing wrong with it and you shouldn't let it ruin your experience as everyone has NOTPs and remembering the principle of 'don't like don't read' is important.
I thought “gay brothers” was about two brothers who were gay as in happy and they’re dancing. Reminds me of when me and my brother slow danced in a small town party to trigger the locals 😆
*UNDERRATED VIDEO*
Such a great video on a topic that we don't hear much about
Fantastic video, you need more subscribers!
The thing I don’t like about love Simon was most of the people who saw it were straight woman and teenage girls... but it is a romcom ...
It doesn't change what it meant for gay people (especially gay boys/men). MLM media is always gonna attract a lot of straight women fans due to the lack of an imbalanced power dynamic as depicted in pretty much all media featuring heterosexual relationships.
Some are just fetichizing gay men, which is bad, but I don't think those are the majority.
The Rainbow in the Room I tend to always assume they are fetishizing us same as straight men do to lesbian but hopefully you’re right I just was hoping the majority word have been gay men
I don't know if that's true, i watched it with all my queer friends and a lot of people were dressed in rainbow for it
@@therainbowintheroom3038 also, straight women and teenage girls IS who normally watches romcoms. They are colloquially known as "chick flicks" for a reason.
@@therainbowintheroom3038
Why is it bad to "fetishize" gay men as a woman?
You can't help what turns you on, it's the same with lots of lesbian porn for a straight male audience.
This is fantastic!
Thank you so much!
I didn't think I'd hear the pixies in this video lol
This is a brilliant analysis of the whole Sterek bs. Thank you for making it.
Awesome video!
I have actually made the live stream for once! whooooooo! I love you guys!
Shows like Star vs the Forces of Evil walked so shows like Helluva Boss could run
And flip the Catholic church and the FCC while doing it
I live for a world where someone can say to the press ‘yes these two characters are gay and they are a couple.’ And then people just carry on.
In relation to the Teenwolf saga and Sterek, within the series there was much homosexuality context and actual portrayal of homosexuality of characters right to the end especially with Colton Heynes character of Jackson who ends up with Ethan played by Charlie Carver in a loving relationship, as for Stiles and Derek, as a gay man and researching this concept of sub plot and coding, surely this was put there for the viewer to summerise and draw their own conclusion without turning the whole series into a gay franchise that would not have marketed well with the straight majority watching? However it gives the gay population and viewers an ending of subconciousness on how the two characters percieve each other or end up together, if in your minds eye they end up together then the subcontext in my eyes have worked because it distracts from the series plot and allows you as a gay individual or other individual to interpret... much like reading a book where you have to imagine the settings, suroundings and emotion without the visualisation of an onscreen production... just a thought.
I DONT WATCH THE AVENGERS OR THE READ THE COMICS, AND I SHIP STUCKY OR WHATEVER IT'S CALLED
The first word in the title of this video is treated throughout as if it were an unproblematic umbrella term. This is not true... The word has a long history as a slur, which many gay men remember with a post traumatic stress visceral reaction which makes it unbearable to be around. We have a right to self-identify. I am gay. I am not that other word. Please don't use it as if it means the same as "LGBT+" because it doesn't.
"Queer theory" is the most used academic term for the theory devoted to the study of sexualities and gender identities outside of the cis-het spectrum (i.e. the point of my whole channel).
A reclaimed slur? Yes, absolutely and I understand why someone wouldn't want to use it to describe themselves - they don't have to - but it is the most inclusive broad-umbrella term for everyone who's not cis-het.
Context and execution.
P.S.: Also, I have to acknowledge that WHILE I'M NOT CLAIMING THIS TO BE THE CASE/INTENTION BEHIND THE ABOVE COMMENT, while plenty of may not use the word "queer" to describe themselves, the ones advocating for it not to be used tend to be feminism-appropriating trans-exclusionists who dislike how it's used to encompass lesbian, gay and bi/pansexual people as well as trans/non-binary folks, so I am very wary of this kind of comment and it's the first and last time I will ever address it.
@@therainbowintheroom3038 I know how common it is to use this slur, you don't need to inform me.. that is why I have a problem with it in the first place.
You don't reclaim a word by inviting outside groups to use it. Do white people get invited to use the N word? No. Because when you invite outside groups to use a term, it doesn't take back the language. It normalizes it's use. Also, it victimizes members of the community that are damaged by the casual use.
I am an older gay man who fought for hate crimes legislation and gay marriage. You wouldn't be on this channel, out and open if it wasn't for the work of people like me, whom you turn around and damage with this behavior. You are totally ungrateful for the work of your elders in this community.
You should be ashamed.
@@johnny196775 k bro
@@therainbowintheroom3038 Also, I have never supported the trans exclusionary movement in the past. However, if they discourage the use of the term and you don't, then I will support them going forward.
sooner or later you all tell on yourselves
Great video.
I was so sad when sense8 got cancelled 🥺
20:37 - I seriously disliked actor after this...just try to convince me he's not homophobic
It doesn't matter what the actors or the producers of the show say, it's queer by resonance alone and becomes canon by community.
cool vid!
It helps when LGBTQ people are tv showrunners like Dan Levy or Ryan Murphy.
nice vid, thanks for making and sharing
hello i love this video! are you comfortable with it being translate and used as a reference/source material? Thank you!!
As long as you don't repost it, knock yourself out.
there's a lot more ppl in the comments not getting it than I thought
Call Me By Your Name was a great movie
I never watched 90210 but HOW IS THAT STORYLINE NOT GAY??? Lmao
1990 broadcast network
gender idiocy. "men" can dance with each other no matter what their sexuality, and have been doing so throughout human history.
I have always found it ironic that Hollywood doesn't make more gay films when it is FULL of gays in the film industry
If this is the english adaptation, where can I find the original?
It's unavailable for ~reasons~
@@therainbowintheroom3038 well, then I'm gonna have to share it in english anyway! Thanks for the awesome video
Because Bucky and Steve can't just be friends right?
nope
Look. People can be gay and they can be not gay on a tv-show. That's okay. But hinting at something so that more viewers get hooked on your show, and even playing into the ship by having scenes where the two characters are very evidently not behaving entirely platonic, is basically showrunners eating their cake while they still can and playing and disrespecting audiences who were very invested in that ship and also had high hopes, hopes that the talents behind the show had INTENTIONALLY CONTRIBUTED TO, hopes that weren't there without very valid reasons. And the worst part is, doing so and then making the audience feel that they are a bunch of weirdos who just want to watch people of the same-sex hook up like some sex-crazed perverts, as if they themselves didn't ENCOURAGE THAT SHIP, albeit not openly. This is exactly what happened with Supernatural. And lets just say it- had a fandom made a heterosexual ship that they really believed in (whether or not the show eventually pursues it), nobody in the show would give as disgusted reactions as they give to "made up" LGBTQ+ ships.
Yay Lindsay!
As a trans girl, the only major representation I've seen is cis actors playing trans characters
watch Pose it's so good
Sense8!!!
first 30 seconds play
...am I in hell?
If you focus only on a character's sexuality, and don't make him or her complex, interesting, or even LIKEABLE, then it's a sign that it's nothing more than a pathetic attempt at queerbaiting. There is nothing wrong with a character being gay, or have a gay love story be a central theme or a subject in a story, but again, if the characters are not likeable in the slightest, NO ONE will watch it. This is why all the current attempts of Hollywood at focusing on gender and sexual preference are not only disrespectful to the LGBT community, since for hollywood, it seems that this community is nothing more than a source of money, easily lured by the sight of a same sex relationship on screen, but also continuing to go down this disrespectful mindset, because all thew sjw PARASITE in social media, in their even MORE pathetic attempt to look morally superior to others, continue to push Hollywood to behave like this, and Hollywood seems just fine in doing so. If the LGBT community want to have more place in the media in the proper respectful way, then they should demand to fire all sjws from the entertainment industry. Also, please, PLEASE stop trying to LGBTing fictional characters who have NEVER shown signs of being gay. For example, stop forcefully turning characters like Elsa to gay, it's really annoying, and lazy to try to ride the success of a popular character, just because people are being too lazy to write their own gay characters.
Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.
what is this sjw invasion I'm not aware of lol
there's no signs of Elsa being straight either tho why is it a problem if ppl want to make her gay? straight is not the default stop trying to make it that
Gay dean. 5* video. instant sub.
I think that if you are going to infer or imply an attraction between Cap and Bucky after stating that Hollywood and a great deal of other mainstream media has misunderstood or outright co-opted tropes to give villians a more effeminate slant, then you need to do more research on these two characters. Originally in the comics Bucky was 10 to 12 and Cap was his 23 year old mentor now does that sound like a good idea. Yes later on Bucky was aged up but not by much. He was made a 16 year old assassin who was covertly manipulate by the U.S. government to take on tasks deemed to dark for others. When they meet Cap was still 23 and tried to be a mentor and friend to him so he wouldn't become to damaged by the things he did. Now knowing that does it seem as though it's a good idea to imply a romantic subtext to the characters. And please don't be pedantic by saying you're only talking about the films when you didn't say anything about the subtext in the Schumacher Batman films or the subtext of the fox X-men films. And even if you want to go there you should know, there was an article written about Batman and Robin having a sexual relationship when Batman was at his youngest 21 and Robin 11. I'm not saying Cap shouldn't be written as being gay, you just need to think about his age and connections to the characters when writing him. Now to anyone who wants to throw out that Thor is older than Jane, I say she was an adult when they met, and he isn't human so we don't know what his life span is.
I made a video specifically addressing most of the stuff you brought up here: ruclips.net/video/K7lTK1tXxLo/видео.html
@@therainbowintheroom3038 Then why did you miss represent the comic by stating that it was the same as the film? If you don't want to talk about the continuity of the comic you shouldn't talk about the character otherwise you are furthering a half truth. It's like the people who want to ship Shiro and Keith in Voltron inspite of the fact that Shiro helped raise Keith. Or the people who want to ship Rogue an Mystique inspite of Mystique raising Rogue. Alot of the ammo that fundamentalist use against the LGBT is the assumption that it the same as pedifilia and you don't want to add to that misunderstanding by not giving the full facts.
i didn't once say stucky's history in the comics was the same as in the movies. the closest to that was mentioning the characters' origins for context.
also, i'd recommend coming to terms with the fact the mcu does not share the same continuity with marvel comics' 80 yo canon and that it is indeed important and sometimes (like here) preferable to separate both universes when analyzing a thing
if you or anyone else thinks discussing the homoeroticism between two grown men who were canonically adults in a series of movies is the same to saying or defending an adult cap/literal child bucky from the original 40's run pairing when i'm clearly making a distinction between the two, you are looking for anything to grasp and distort into this thesis and would've found a way to see it this way no matter what and it's frankly not my problem
@@therainbowintheroom3038I am sorry and I shot off without fully understanding the full context of sence I got hung up on. Rest assured that the friend who pointed it out quickly smacked me in the back of my head when we talked earlier today and I will be thinking long and hard before I post anything close to a negative comment. The point I got hung up onwas at the point in the video when you jumped from the statement about not wanting to go into 80 years of continuity then moved directly into describing the relationship they share in the film. My idiot gene kicked in and my brain hit on the jump peice. I am sorry and hope you can forgive my comments as well as my stupidity. Please keep making great videos and if you want to block me in the future I understand. Have a good day.
I appreciate you sending this message and thank you for your kind words and support.
CLex
who is more interested in gay representation...straight girls or gay men?
gay men. straight girls just want to see guys making out
Both of y’all are wrong. Those “straight girls” are overwhelmingly closeted trans men.
Wouldn't Queer Bating start from a fanbase's opinion of shipping 2 character's due to first impressions?
Nope.