it is ok Adrian @Adrian's Digital Basement .... same here.... i use Redhat many years in my servers ... and VPS servers.. but first time i see his GUI... i also use CentOS ( same thing i never see his GUI neither)... always loved try to installing linux in my computers.... 99% of the times FAIL with something weird that I don't know how to fix... and the 3 times that I manage to running a linux on one of my machines... I looked at it for a while.. until I realize that I have absolutely nothing to do with it... the other two times.. Debian... with GParted Live on USB .... now that one is useful... and lately a Flash USB Linux Mint... and again.. I play with it for a while... until I realize that I have absolutely nothing to do with it... :-\
DosBox is perfectly capable of emulating Windows 3.11 and all dos games. Biggest advantage over the others is out of the box sound support with the ability to adjust CPU speed and all the legacy hardware quirks required for legacy DOS games to run. Biggest issue I've found with it so far is the lack of emulation for the networking hardware. It does support IPX, but not TCP/IP. DosBox-x even goes further by supporting network emulation and even decent support for Windows 9x, however I've been struggling to get it stable even with 3.11 and its mouse support. There is one crazy thing I'd love to try one day when I get the time. It has a build for DOS! In other words - you could boot in the host in FreeDOS and run DosBox-x inside as an emulator. This should allow you to have a setup with a bootable Windows 3.x/95 on something like an usb flash drive and it should work on any modern PC that can boot FreeDOS itself! P.S. Why is there no Windows 95 in the history chart? It was much bigger jump from 3.x to 95 than from 95 to 98, yet it is not there. Also, no Windows NT? No OS/2?
I was wondering where Win95 was as well, along with WinME even though I found ME to be hot garbage, I still think it's important to include because that's when MS really started to phase out DOS support if we don't count Windows NT.
Wasn't meant to be a fully detailed history chart ... just putting dos usage in context a little bit ... could have indeed also included NT / OS/2 , different unix / linux flavors / beos / ......
@@RetroSpector78 In the context of DOS itself - I believe Windows 95 would still have been more suitable than 98 (it booted in Windows by default), as the latter did no change anything over 95 in terms of integration with DOS. The next big change came with ME, and although arguably it still had DOS subsystem underneath, it was the first time Micro$oft attempted to completely hide it. As for the OS/2 and NT, they are indeed relevant to the chart because of their own DOS emulation at the time. Anyway, does anyone know anything about any built of DOSEMU 2.x for Windows 7/10? I can't seem to find any binaries / projects out there?
Dosbox swiftly bring dosemu to obscurity. The main reason are the fact than Dosbox contains their built-in DOS, and for many users it simplifies the task to run old DOS games.
Ahh, retro Linux machines makes me happy. :) This was the era when I tried to get Linux running on every machine I came across. It really wasn't easy back then, but it was lots of fun trying. Fun video. Not sure I ever played with dosemu, gonna have to look into it on some old machine. :)
Oh, the memories... I was using OS/2 Warp at the time, but I was looking to move to Linux on the desktop, as soon as it "matures enough". (Spoiler alert: I never really moved to Linux on the desktop, I ended up with Macs, eventually.) One of the blocker issues to me was being DOSemu absolute horse**** compared to OS/2 Warp's DOS Task, which was really _the_ single best solution when it comes to combining multi-tasking with a high degree of DOS compatibility, and I was using a ton of DOS apps on it. Most of them just didn't work all that well with DOSemu. Having said this, around 2002, I actually applied DOSemu in production. We were still running a bunch of DOS dBase III based "database" apps in production at the company where I was a sysadmin. This was across like 4 sites nationwide. On the largest site these were talking to a Netware 4 server, but some smaller sites had no server just a single computer running "standalone". No other computing infrastructure either, apart from a phone line. We normally drove to these sites every 2-3 months, retrieved the data, and made updates to the software. Then a new requirement came: we must be able to apply daily updates to these DOS apps and also download the data files daily from them, for data sync. Via a dial-in modem link, of course. So the programmers were in panic. But I solved this for them by customizing a Debian Linux install, to boot directly into console DOSemu, and then start the app via its AUTOEXEC.BAT. (Actually, this is how it was on the machine too, when it was running native DOS, it started the dBase app automagically on boot. So the users trained in using only this single app barely saw a difference.) Then - as this was before DSL times, and even ISDN was scarce on the countyside - I just configured pppd to accept incoming calls via an 56K modem, so you can literally chirp into the "Linux side" of the system, and download the data files you need, or update the app. I think I even made it possible via some scripts, to stop the running app, and start a new one over telnet(!) so the programmer could test their changes remotely. Then just restart the app on the local console. It worked really well, over 3 sites. Of course, shortly after I automated the downloading of data files too, via another Linux system, running on the main site, which just dialed in to the remote sides, and downloaded all the files via FTP, and slammed onto the Netware server. It was magic. I gained really huge amount of respect points at the programmers after pulling this stunt. :) Those were the days...
My pentium 2 system has the same case but in 2003 I sacraligiously painted it silver with spray paint. The case has a few gripes though, the top cover must be removed in order to remove the side panels and it’s always a bit stuck. I guess the paintjob made it worse. My case has 4 5.25” bays and I’ve populated them all. I moved the 3.5” floppy to one of those bays as well for convenience / cable management reasons as it had to be close to the 5.25” floppy. The two top bays are used for cd-rom and the zip drive. I covered the hole for the 3.5” bay. My experience with Linux is that nothing ever works smoothly and compiling something always seems to fail even when following instructions. I wish BeOS had gotten anywhere...... it combined the simplicity of classic MacOS but with a powerfull foundation which was ahead of it’s time. BeOS, the OS that could have been big in a different parallel universe.
Case looks like an Enlight which sold in huge numbers and were good values for the money. The insides were sharp and would cut you in a heartbeat so I deburred mine with the tang of a file before building the PC.
Interesting DOS environment. Never crossed my path. Such a cool lock back on older red hat as well. I did use 7.x at work for a few years around that time. Thanx for this great video!
Thx .... the build was pretty easy to fix, but working out all if the other linux kinks in 2020 is far from trivial ... googling redhat issues doesn’t yield a lot of 1996-2000 results, and have the impression there are still lots of people struggling with linux today :)
Ah yes, I remember using Dosemu in RH5/SuSE6 to run Terminate and Termail to dial into BBSes and do Fidonet echomail/netmail. As Dosemu had a way to shell into Linux from inside DOS, I could append my Linux system's uptime into my messages :D (Hi from Belgium btw - discovered your channel through Adrian's DOScember zoom stream)
I love that you use Stunts for 'benchmarking' this! I have spent sooooo much time playing Stunts on various machines over the years to gauge their performance and compatibility. The wonderful soundtrack is permanently stuck in my brain :) Also, I can't believe how functional this all was, even back then.
I have that same Inwin tower case. I has a dual Celeron ABIT BP6 motherboard and it ran Linux :-) I had 2 IBM 40GB ATA HDDs for the life of the computer.
I had a BP6 back in the day! Found a pair of Celerons on Price Watch and water cooled them with Danger Den blocks. I ran BeOS r5 on it. :-) I had three of the mid tower In Win cases like this. One had a red LED scheme and ran Windows Server 2003 (I was taking MCSE courses), one with green LEDs running Gentoo Linux, and the blue one with BeOS.
Great video! I remember spending a lot of time playing with Linux around this time but I never tried DOS emulation. Looks like it was working very well! It's interesting that DOSBox went with that name knowing that "DOS in a box" was already a thing. I suppose they weren't too bothered about the potential confusion.
Different time periods I guess ... not really sure when dosbox reallly took off but given the first release was in 2002 I can imagine it was quite a few years later when it really took off. Tried (and failed) at so many things during my first linux stint so many years ago :)
Wow amazing! Thanks for the trip down memory lane! I also had a Red Hat Linux machine back in the day, and I remember giving dosemu a try, but it didn't support the games I was interested in playing at the time (e.g. Wing Commander Privateer), so I kinda gave up on dosemu. Looks like I gave up too soon tho, if I knew it supported games like Doom, I definitely would have given it a lot more use :D Great video, cheers!
I’m going to grab dosemu and see if I can get IPX working over the built-in packet driver and run it through OpenVPN in tap mode for some multiplayer DOS gaming.
@@RetroSpector78 Mine housed an AMD 900Mhz system and later a Pentium 4 2.4Mhz system. I put coaster wheels in the flip out feet by epoxying them in and eventually it had a nice metallic blue and hammer blow graphite colour scheme. Of course with the obligatory side panel cut out and a blue florecent tube on the bottom.
Mine came stock with an Asus P2B-S and a SCSI tape drive. Was probably used as a server for a while. Now I have two Xeons in there, what a beast of a rendering/gaming machine.
Brilliant video, thanks a lot! I wonder just how compatible DosEMU is? Now .. Floppy drive, old laptop with lots of memory for Linux. Hmmm CRT screen I think I have all that stuff somewhere in my garage. Oh look, I found one of my old XT motherboards. I wonder if it still works!
I am currently watching this video on my main PC. It's using this exact case. What a coincidence :D And yes, it it awesome. I currently have a dual CPU E-ATX motherboard in there with two Xeons.
Just a heads up though to anyone interested in trying out Linux: WSL is far inferior to something like a LiveUSB for trying out Linux as a desktop OS. This is of course in reference to a modern system.
@@OfficialNukeDukem True. There are things WSL is pretty handy for, mostly when you don't want to or can't leave Windows. But even today, with WSL and virtualization stuff, the best mode of using Linux is running it as an OS on the bare metal hardware.
8:35 That one looks a bit more serious. Seems the assembler is interpreting the “#” as introducing a preprocessor directive, whereas it’s clear from the source that it’s supposed to be a comment delimiter. I would say, change the “.S” name to “.s” to bypass the preprocessor, and see if that helps.
One thing I don't miss about those days are the early LCD monitors. The advantages of CRT can be argued even today, when LCDs have finally have catched up in terms of color, brightness and resolution (but are still much worse in motion perception, though). But in early days? LCDs were so much worse in everything except weight and volume :(
Pretty cool. DOSEmu uses (used???) VM86, a processor mode introduced with the 80386, in which the linear address computation works the same way as in real mode, but with all protection remaining enabled. This mode allows Windows 3.1 386-enhanced mode to preemptively multitask (or NT and Linux to run DOS applications). VM86 isn't available in long mode (x64's 64-bit mode), which is the reason why 64-bit operating systems cannot run DOS programs natively. Of course with the way CPU performance and JIT compiler technology have evolved VM86 isn't really necessary and true emulation of real mode is feasible.
Windows NT never needed the DOS kernel to work. Their NTVDM uses a trimmed down version of MS-DOS 5.0 (it was true even on Windows 10) to Run some DOS programs. DosEmu are basically the clone of NTVDM. Still Windows Me required MS-DOS 8.0 to boot, but this last version was modified to avoid loading of real mode drivers and load the VMM32 extender to start Windows.
Here's something kind of crazy, DOS did not originally support the CD\ command, it was a UNIX feature ported in MSDOS 2.0 because at the time (pre Windows) Microsoft's main OS was a UNIX derived OS called XENIX and so they added lots of compatibility for UNIX/XENIX command/functionality to MSDOS. So we're essentially watching DOS terminal emulation in Linux be used to type in UNIX commands, I thought it was cool xD
Man, that’s the tower I owned 20y ago. How is it called? Have to have it back! I also had this as a midi i recon. Edit: what a flashback! I had not also this tower but also red hat with gnome running back then
I never used DosEmu, althought I think that on mapped non-FAT drivers, it would trigger an exception, for which either Format gives an invalid drive or DosEmu would kill itself.
It was fun watching the build from source part too! I do it too, and modern Linux does like much the same. Did you change an asm file too in the build? Great initiative this #doscember. Will be watching your videos 🙂
I am in love with the Penguin! But Dos is ok too :-P I got to see a preview of Redhat 7 to find out it IS direct upgrade to Red hat 6.2! NICE! I will be upgrading my retro PC to 7 from 6.2. Yes! Linux back then was notorious for seg faults due to missing deps and even incomplete hardware drivers.. The way I fix alot of this now in 2020 is go to the old repos that are still available, and download and compile a cd with all the updated packages for the distro, and then add the cd to what ever package manager(gnoRPM), as an additional software source. The fact that you can run a full fledged DOS environment inside a Window in Linux back then would have been very helpful to know about when transitioning from Windows 95 to Linux lol! Ah well.. Better late than never :-P
However note that this is not cross compilation. It is merely calling a native compiler via emulation. Cross compilation means, that BC must run natively on Linux. Also, the term Cross-Compilation usually refers to the architecture of the system, not to the operating system. And with architecture it is the same CPU anyway.
Wow, Redhat 7.0, it feels like it was in a different life. I don’t feel nostalgic about early Linux distorts a bit, I am glad we have moved on, all versions and variations of DOS are a different story.
I have been looking for a place to get Redhat Linux 7.0 files for about a few months now. It directs me to Redhat Enterprise Linux instead. I even tried to put in the designated codename for the release but no dice. If there is anyone who can help me with this reply to this comment. I have a server and only Redhat 7.0 will work as stated by the previous owner. I have tried myself to install Redhat 5.2 and Slackware 7.0 but the either it will say wrong architecture, cannot find the drives, or it will lock up after I insert the install disk. If someone could help me find these disk files, I'd finally be able to get my dream server up and running.
@@RetroSpector78 Ah thank you. The poor thing has been eluding me for a while. Never thought to put enterprise there as I am looking for the original version that came out in the year 2000. Other than that, I did find Slackware 7.0 that I needed for another project on a Dolch PAC 65 Rugged portable. That one runs a 4 partition boot sequence that uses Windows 2000, XP, NT4.0 SP6 Workstation, and the Slackware mentioned above. Keep up the good videos, you have given me lots of help with my retro computing endeavors.
Through emulation you would have more functionality for sound cards like the Roland MT-32. And cycle clocking for very dated games vs newer more intensive ones. And EMS support which is lacking in many systems with a shared graphics card.
"You're not gonna be able to run windows games or applications on this" Is it incompatible with windows or is it that windows just isn't installed? On standard dosbox today Windows 3.11 can be installed pretty easily. Maybe freedos isn't compatible, but I wonder if a system disk followed by an MSDOS installation would work on this.
Well in 80ties and 90ties even with MS products there was a lot of tinkering. I remember I had few autoexec.bat builds for different games that wouldn't work in my normal mode with Norton Commander and drivers that took too much ram memory. In Win95 times it was so buggy you had to format and instal it anew few times a year, new devices had drivers but compatibity was big issue and it rarely worked out of the box. Then came 98 and finally cheap internet and the viruses and malicious software so even with antivirus software i sometimes had time where I reinstalled win98 few times a month sometimes even up to 3 times a week. WinXP was finally the thing that worked for a year without glich and drivers where working from the box.
@@WolfKenneth Yeah, that bugs the hell outta me! People kept saying that installing Linux was hard compared to using the DOS/Windows that came pre-installed on their beige boxes while completely forgetting that DOS - and Windows to a lesser extent - required a lot of tinkering as well at the same time. I can't be the only one that remembers the "joys" of using things like QEMM, tweaking AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS, installing Creative Plug-and-Pray device drivers, writing down IRQs and DMAs from IDE cards, fiddling with jumpers on motherboards and expansion cards, removing TSR software to free up more memory, setting up Netware IPX/SPX network settings and all that stuff just to get some games up and running!
I prefer to run MS-DOS using Microsoft Virtual PC, although that product is discontinued. I don't use it for games, but it works well for serious applications.
What happened to Dosemu? I'm running Ubuntu 2.10 and just checked my repos and dosemu isn't there. I googled it and got this ancient looking website: www.dosemu.org/ According to the wikipedia article on Dosemu the last release was in 2007! That article is void of any further information on what happened. Why did the development of Dosemu stop?
I was just able to install it with no issues on my main PC which is running modern Arch Linux so I don't see why there wouldn't be a version online or in official repos for Ubuntu?
Dosemu2 add an internal 8088 emulator to handle the lack of virtual real mode on x86-64 CPU. However I think the most probable reason of the low usage of DosEmu was DosBox. Using a full CPU emulator enables to use real mode programs with non-standard extentions, unreal mode games (Ultima 7), protected mode programs that uses ring 0 which is the VCPI standard, or uses uncommom functions that prevent running on protected mode operating system. Any dos emulator that uses virtual real mode cannot use flat memory space beyond 1 MB unless uses DPMI provided by the DOS emulator.
Dosbox also runs on Android! I love playing my old dos games on my Snapdragon 855 SoC. I have 8GB RAM on my cellphone and a more powerful GPU than my GF's current laptop!
I'm impressed! I played with Linux back then but never this DOS in a Box stuff. Super cool!
it is ok Adrian @Adrian's Digital Basement
.... same here.... i use Redhat many years in my servers ... and VPS servers.. but first time i see his GUI...
i also use CentOS ( same thing i never see his GUI neither)...
always loved try to installing linux in my computers....
99% of the times FAIL with something weird that I don't know how to fix...
and the 3 times that I manage to running a linux on one of my machines...
I looked at it for a while..
until I realize that I have absolutely nothing to do with it...
the other two times.. Debian... with GParted Live on USB .... now that one is useful...
and lately a Flash USB Linux Mint... and again.. I play with it for a while... until I realize that I have absolutely nothing to do with it... :-\
🙂
Next year, we definitely need to make "*Nix November" a thing
November was already taken by #QLvember :) For Sinclair QL stuff...
@@chainq68k Well, is January available, since you don't need to have a matching letter to the name of the month
@@chainq68k ....that doesn't even make sense!
@lwvmobile So make it all about nix package management ;)
JUNIX then...
0:25 "excuse the ocalhost login and the assword..." lmao
DosBox is perfectly capable of emulating Windows 3.11 and all dos games.
Biggest advantage over the others is out of the box sound support with the ability to adjust CPU speed and all the legacy hardware quirks required for legacy DOS games to run.
Biggest issue I've found with it so far is the lack of emulation for the networking hardware. It does support IPX, but not TCP/IP.
DosBox-x even goes further by supporting network emulation and even decent support for Windows 9x, however I've been struggling to get it stable even with 3.11 and its mouse support.
There is one crazy thing I'd love to try one day when I get the time. It has a build for DOS! In other words - you could boot in the host in FreeDOS and run DosBox-x inside as an emulator. This should allow you to have a setup with a bootable Windows 3.x/95 on something like an usb flash drive and it should work on any modern PC that can boot FreeDOS itself!
P.S. Why is there no Windows 95 in the history chart? It was much bigger jump from 3.x to 95 than from 95 to 98, yet it is not there. Also, no Windows NT? No OS/2?
I was wondering where Win95 was as well, along with WinME even though I found ME to be hot garbage, I still think it's important to include because that's when MS really started to phase out DOS support if we don't count Windows NT.
Wasn't meant to be a fully detailed history chart ... just putting dos usage in context a little bit ... could have indeed also included NT / OS/2 , different unix / linux flavors / beos / ......
@@RetroSpector78 In the context of DOS itself - I believe Windows 95 would still have been more suitable than 98 (it booted in Windows by default), as the latter did no change anything over 95 in terms of integration with DOS. The next big change came with ME, and although arguably it still had DOS subsystem underneath, it was the first time Micro$oft attempted to completely hide it.
As for the OS/2 and NT, they are indeed relevant to the chart because of their own DOS emulation at the time.
Anyway, does anyone know anything about any built of DOSEMU 2.x for Windows 7/10? I can't seem to find any binaries / projects out there?
DOS and Linux in one video!? Oh yes!
indeed .... was prepping a linux video and all of a sudden #doscember came... so had to combine :)
Dosbox swiftly bring dosemu to obscurity. The main reason are the fact than Dosbox contains their built-in DOS, and for many users it simplifies the task to run old DOS games.
Ahh, retro Linux machines makes me happy. :)
This was the era when I tried to get Linux running on every machine I came across. It really wasn't easy back then, but it was lots of fun trying.
Fun video. Not sure I ever played with dosemu, gonna have to look into it on some old machine. :)
Pretty sure I tried it when I was running redhat 4 but probably couldn't get it up and running (like a lot of things on linux back then).
Mandrake (Red Hat based) made installs quick and usually easy. It was a revolution when it came out vs. manually configuring XFree86 etc.
Never heard of DosEmu before, but I'm quite impressed. I saw that it also was updated in 2012 with native 64-bit CPU support.
Oh, the memories... I was using OS/2 Warp at the time, but I was looking to move to Linux on the desktop, as soon as it "matures enough". (Spoiler alert: I never really moved to Linux on the desktop, I ended up with Macs, eventually.) One of the blocker issues to me was being DOSemu absolute horse**** compared to OS/2 Warp's DOS Task, which was really _the_ single best solution when it comes to combining multi-tasking with a high degree of DOS compatibility, and I was using a ton of DOS apps on it. Most of them just didn't work all that well with DOSemu.
Having said this, around 2002, I actually applied DOSemu in production. We were still running a bunch of DOS dBase III based "database" apps in production at the company where I was a sysadmin. This was across like 4 sites nationwide. On the largest site these were talking to a Netware 4 server, but some smaller sites had no server just a single computer running "standalone". No other computing infrastructure either, apart from a phone line. We normally drove to these sites every 2-3 months, retrieved the data, and made updates to the software. Then a new requirement came: we must be able to apply daily updates to these DOS apps and also download the data files daily from them, for data sync. Via a dial-in modem link, of course. So the programmers were in panic. But I solved this for them by customizing a Debian Linux install, to boot directly into console DOSemu, and then start the app via its AUTOEXEC.BAT. (Actually, this is how it was on the machine too, when it was running native DOS, it started the dBase app automagically on boot. So the users trained in using only this single app barely saw a difference.) Then - as this was before DSL times, and even ISDN was scarce on the countyside - I just configured pppd to accept incoming calls via an 56K modem, so you can literally chirp into the "Linux side" of the system, and download the data files you need, or update the app. I think I even made it possible via some scripts, to stop the running app, and start a new one over telnet(!) so the programmer could test their changes remotely. Then just restart the app on the local console. It worked really well, over 3 sites. Of course, shortly after I automated the downloading of data files too, via another Linux system, running on the main site, which just dialed in to the remote sides, and downloaded all the files via FTP, and slammed onto the Netware server. It was magic.
I gained really huge amount of respect points at the programmers after pulling this stunt. :) Those were the days...
Computer newbie: Is my computer year 2000 compilant?
RetroSpector78: Yes
Is my computer a multimedia computer?
My pentium 2 system has the same case but in 2003 I sacraligiously painted it silver with spray paint. The case has a few gripes though, the top cover must be removed in order to remove the side panels and it’s always a bit stuck. I guess the paintjob made it worse. My case has 4 5.25” bays and I’ve populated them all. I moved the 3.5” floppy to one of those bays as well for convenience / cable management reasons as it had to be close to the 5.25” floppy. The two top bays are used for cd-rom and the zip drive. I covered the hole for the 3.5” bay. My experience with Linux is that nothing ever works smoothly and compiling something always seems to fail even when following instructions. I wish BeOS had gotten anywhere...... it combined the simplicity of classic MacOS but with a powerfull foundation which was ahead of it’s time. BeOS, the OS that could have been big in a different parallel universe.
Case looks like an Enlight which sold in huge numbers and were good values for the money. The insides were sharp and would cut you in a heartbeat so I deburred mine with the tang of a file before building the PC.
Interesting DOS environment. Never crossed my path. Such a cool lock back on older red hat as well. I did use 7.x at work for a few years around that time. Thanx for this great video!
Source won't compile, no problem, I got this... 16 hours later, SUCCESS! Seriously though great video.
Thx .... the build was pretty easy to fix, but working out all if the other linux kinks in 2020 is far from trivial ... googling redhat issues doesn’t yield a lot of 1996-2000 results, and have the impression there are still lots of people struggling with linux today :)
Okay, this is a freaking awesome video. This brings me back to running dosemu on RH6.2 on my Inspiron 7500. Thanks for sharing!
Glad you enjoyed it !
Yes sure I ever played with dos-emu, gonna have to look into it on some old machine. :)
Ah yes, I remember using Dosemu in RH5/SuSE6 to run Terminate and Termail to dial into BBSes and do Fidonet echomail/netmail. As Dosemu had a way to shell into Linux from inside DOS, I could append my Linux system's uptime into my messages :D
(Hi from Belgium btw - discovered your channel through Adrian's DOScember zoom stream)
I love that you use Stunts for 'benchmarking' this!
I have spent sooooo much time playing Stunts on various machines over the years to gauge their performance and compatibility. The wonderful soundtrack is permanently stuck in my brain :)
Also, I can't believe how functional this all was, even back then.
Seeing the binary finally compile I was cheering at my screen
That case is absolutely enormous, and I love it!
Took me back in a wonderful way. Don't forget booting into DOS to get those soundcard drivers loaded then using loadlin to get to Linux :)
I have that same Inwin tower case. I has a dual Celeron ABIT BP6 motherboard and it ran Linux :-) I had 2 IBM 40GB ATA HDDs for the life of the computer.
I had a BP6 back in the day! Found a pair of Celerons on Price Watch and water cooled them with Danger Den blocks. I ran BeOS r5 on it. :-)
I had three of the mid tower In Win cases like this. One had a red LED scheme and ran Windows Server 2003 (I was taking MCSE courses), one with green LEDs running Gentoo Linux, and the blue one with BeOS.
Great video! I remember spending a lot of time playing with Linux around this time but I never tried DOS emulation. Looks like it was working very well!
It's interesting that DOSBox went with that name knowing that "DOS in a box" was already a thing. I suppose they weren't too bothered about the potential confusion.
Different time periods I guess ... not really sure when dosbox reallly took off but given the first release was in 2002 I can imagine it was quite a few years later when it really took off. Tried (and failed) at so many things during my first linux stint so many years ago :)
Great video!
Just a small correction: Windows ME was also based on MSDOS, just like 98/95.
So now i know why windows millenium was my last favorite windows version😀
DOSBox for Linux uses SDL, which was just starting to be worked on in 2000. It’s easy to forget what a game changer SDL was for Linux gaming.
Wow amazing! Thanks for the trip down memory lane! I also had a Red Hat Linux machine back in the day, and I remember giving dosemu a try, but it didn't support the games I was interested in playing at the time (e.g. Wing Commander Privateer), so I kinda gave up on dosemu. Looks like I gave up too soon tho, if I knew it supported games like Doom, I definitely would have given it a lot more use :D Great video, cheers!
mmm.... does this mean Dos Emu can give sound in DOS to AC97 laptops? that would be interesting
I have that case! It dual boots Slackware Linux and Windows 2000.
Nice!!! I remember Stunts :-D
We all do ! :)
Over here it was known as 4D Sports Driving. I used to spend lots of time making tracks in it.
@@ncot_tech me too
It looks a lot like Test Drive II
I have a state of the art OLED display, and I too have "asswords" due to screen shift designed to prevent screen burn-in (and failing miserably).
While the DOS prompt was hidden, wouldn't Windows Me be the last Microsoft OS with DOS?
I’m going to grab dosemu and see if I can get IPX working over the built-in packet driver and run it through OpenVPN in tap mode for some multiplayer DOS gaming.
Ah, the good old Inwin tower case... Had one of those for years. Modded the crap out of it.
It is a great case. Like it stock. Has a nice clean stock intel 440lx motherboard and the first intel pentium2 233mhz
@@RetroSpector78 Mine housed an AMD 900Mhz system and later a Pentium 4 2.4Mhz system.
I put coaster wheels in the flip out feet by epoxying them in and eventually it had a nice metallic blue and hammer blow graphite colour scheme.
Of course with the obligatory side panel cut out and a blue florecent tube on the bottom.
Mine came stock with an Asus P2B-S and a SCSI tape drive. Was probably used as a server for a while.
Now I have two Xeons in there, what a beast of a rendering/gaming machine.
Brilliant video, thanks a lot! I wonder just how compatible DosEMU is? Now .. Floppy drive, old laptop with lots of memory for Linux. Hmmm CRT screen I think I have all that stuff somewhere in my garage. Oh look, I found one of my old XT motherboards. I wonder if it still works!
I have that exact same case, and the machine in it runs win98 and Redhat 7.2
Really cool! Thanks mate
That tower is really darn tall lol
Yes it is :) wanted to get a nice shot of it for the thumbnail but couldn't get it into frame :)
It's an InWin Q500 case for reference, used to have the same one - awesome flexible case.
I am currently watching this video on my main PC. It's using this exact case.
What a coincidence :D
And yes, it it awesome. I currently have a dual CPU E-ATX motherboard in there with two Xeons.
So that is basically like reverse of the WSL in Windows 10. Cool!
Just a heads up though to anyone interested in trying out Linux: WSL is far inferior to something like a LiveUSB for trying out Linux as a desktop OS. This is of course in reference to a modern system.
@@OfficialNukeDukem True. There are things WSL is pretty handy for, mostly when you don't want to or can't leave Windows. But even today, with WSL and virtualization stuff, the best mode of using Linux is running it as an OS on the bare metal hardware.
8:35 That one looks a bit more serious. Seems the assembler is interpreting the “#” as introducing a preprocessor directive, whereas it’s clear from the source that it’s supposed to be a comment delimiter.
I would say, change the “.S” name to “.s” to bypass the preprocessor, and see if that helps.
One thing I don't miss about those days are the early LCD monitors. The advantages of CRT can be argued even today, when LCDs have finally have catched up in terms of color, brightness and resolution (but are still much worse in motion perception, though). But in early days? LCDs were so much worse in everything except weight and volume :(
Pretty cool. DOSEmu uses (used???) VM86, a processor mode introduced with the 80386, in which the linear address computation works the same way as in real mode, but with all protection remaining enabled. This mode allows Windows 3.1 386-enhanced mode to preemptively multitask (or NT and Linux to run DOS applications). VM86 isn't available in long mode (x64's 64-bit mode), which is the reason why 64-bit operating systems cannot run DOS programs natively. Of course with the way CPU performance and JIT compiler technology have evolved VM86 isn't really necessary and true emulation of real mode is feasible.
Does Redhat 7 curiously not come with any package manager, that you raw extract rpm files instead of installing them properly?
Isn't that the same case Shelby aka Tech Tangents has for his Windows 98 machine? I don't remember the model, just that it's Inwin.
Same brand and model, different revision.
I remember getting RH 4.0 in high school... I feel old.
I use PC DOS 7 in dosemu.
Shoutout the YT algorithm for gracing me with yet another great new (to me) channel
3:21 I think MS dropped DOS officially when they released Win ME, in the power function, the "boot into DOS" function was removed.
Windows NT never needed the DOS kernel to work. Their NTVDM uses a trimmed down version of MS-DOS 5.0 (it was true even on Windows 10) to Run some DOS programs.
DosEmu are basically the clone of NTVDM.
Still Windows Me required MS-DOS 8.0 to boot, but this last version was modified to avoid loading of real mode drivers and load the VMM32 extender to start Windows.
Thoroughly entertaining video this 👍
Yes, I love that case.
Here's something kind of crazy, DOS did not originally support the CD\ command, it was a UNIX feature ported in MSDOS 2.0 because at the time (pre Windows) Microsoft's main OS was a UNIX derived OS called XENIX and so they added lots of compatibility for UNIX/XENIX command/functionality to MSDOS. So we're essentially watching DOS terminal emulation in Linux be used to type in UNIX commands, I thought it was cool xD
> ERROR: X support not compiled in
> not compiling it directly from the source code
Great video!
7:19 Back in the day; yes for sure. All the time. Nowadays I don't really see that anymore. The abi is pretty stable nowadays thankfully
Did you run ldd on the command to see what dependencies it was missing?
*$@word. Good way to describe the current year. ;) 2k was much better :) Seems good old RedHat did some time travelling.
Still going strong :)
That's an interesting concept,
There is a Dosemu2 fork which runs on modern Linux. I would like to a video on running FreeDos under it.
I just compiled the latest version of that dosemu (dosemu-1.4.0.8-180-g35054ba7) and it ran on my Ubuntu 20.04. Hmm, dosemu2 fork...
Gorgeous looking desktop on Red Hat there. So much nicer than Windows 10 and other modern GUIs.
Thx a lot ... was nice to fire it up again.
GUI's were popping up well before '92. I believe it would be more accurate to say they were becoming popular by '92.
Man, that’s the tower I owned 20y ago. How is it called? Have to have it back! I also had this as a midi i recon.
Edit: what a flashback! I had not also this tower but also red hat with gnome running back then
Rev1 InWin Q500N case. Glad you ejoyed it.
My favorite case. I have the mid tower version
I migrated from DOS to Linux. I used DosEmu.
Very nice tutorial, thanks for that ! And #DOScember FTW ;)
since c: is mapped to your home, what would happen if you format C: in dos in a box
I never used DosEmu, althought I think that on mapped non-FAT drivers, it would trigger an exception, for which either Format gives an invalid drive or DosEmu would kill itself.
Well, NextStep also had DOS emulation, and that was like way back in like ~1990.
what really turns me off with dosbox is the input and sound latency... it really really annoys me
It was fun watching the build from source part too! I do it too, and modern Linux does like much the same. Did you change an asm file too in the build? Great initiative this #doscember. Will be watching your videos 🙂
At 7:13, does the ldd command work to see what .so files it wants?
I am in love with the Penguin! But Dos is ok too :-P I got to see a preview of Redhat 7 to find out it IS direct upgrade to Red hat 6.2! NICE! I will be upgrading my retro PC to 7 from 6.2. Yes! Linux back then was notorious for seg faults due to missing deps and even incomplete hardware drivers.. The way I fix alot of this now in 2020 is go to the old repos that are still available, and download and compile a cd with all the updated packages for the distro, and then add the cd to what ever package manager(gnoRPM), as an additional software source. The fact that you can run a full fledged DOS environment inside a Window in Linux back then would have been very helpful to know about when transitioning from Windows 95 to Linux lol! Ah well.. Better late than never :-P
Ah, the In-Win Q500. What an amazing computer case. :)
However note that this is not cross compilation. It is merely calling a native compiler via emulation. Cross compilation means, that BC must run natively on Linux. Also, the term Cross-Compilation usually refers to the architecture of the system, not to the operating system. And with architecture it is the same CPU anyway.
Oh man, an InWin Q500 case. I miss my Q500 (lost it in a house fire)
Wow, Redhat 7.0, it feels like it was in a different life. I don’t feel nostalgic about early Linux distorts a bit, I am glad we have moved on, all versions and variations of DOS are a different story.
I have been looking for a place to get Redhat Linux 7.0 files for about a few months now. It directs me to Redhat Enterprise Linux instead. I even tried to put in the designated codename for the release but no dice. If there is anyone who can help me with this reply to this comment. I have a server and only Redhat 7.0 will work as stated by the previous owner. I have tried myself to install Redhat 5.2 and Slackware 7.0 but the either it will say wrong architecture, cannot find the drives, or it will lock up after I insert the install disk. If someone could help me find these disk files, I'd finally be able to get my dream server up and running.
Google with “-enterprise” at the end :)
@@RetroSpector78 Ah thank you. The poor thing has been eluding me for a while. Never thought to put enterprise there as I am looking for the original version that came out in the year 2000. Other than that, I did find Slackware 7.0 that I needed for another project on a Dolch PAC 65 Rugged portable. That one runs a 4 partition boot sequence that uses Windows 2000, XP, NT4.0 SP6 Workstation, and the Slackware mentioned above. Keep up the good videos, you have given me lots of help with my retro computing endeavors.
I am on an Android tablet with a dosbox app installed.
emulating could be possible right?
MANNNN. I had that same version. First Linux I bought. Was a boxed version from a Software Etc.
Best times ever.
Just install DOS?
Through emulation you would have more functionality for sound cards like the Roland MT-32. And cycle clocking for very dated games vs newer more intensive ones. And EMS support which is lacking in many systems with a shared graphics card.
"You're not gonna be able to run windows games or applications on this"
Is it incompatible with windows or is it that windows just isn't installed? On standard dosbox today Windows 3.11 can be installed pretty easily. Maybe freedos isn't compatible, but I wonder if a system disk followed by an MSDOS installation would work on this.
The first dosemu had problems with protected mode DOS extenders. Windows 3.x had compatibility issues.
Thank you for demonstrating the kind of "tinkering" required to use Linux that loses the interest in Windows users.
Tinkering it is .... feels exactly the same like when I was 17 :)
Well in 80ties and 90ties even with MS products there was a lot of tinkering. I remember I had few autoexec.bat builds for different games that wouldn't work in my normal mode with Norton Commander and drivers that took too much ram memory. In Win95 times it was so buggy you had to format and instal it anew few times a year, new devices had drivers but compatibity was big issue and it rarely worked out of the box. Then came 98 and finally cheap internet and the viruses and malicious software so even with antivirus software i sometimes had time where I reinstalled win98 few times a month sometimes even up to 3 times a week. WinXP was finally the thing that worked for a year without glich and drivers where working from the box.
“DNFTT”, as they say ...
@@WolfKenneth Yeah, that bugs the hell outta me! People kept saying that installing Linux was hard compared to using the DOS/Windows that came pre-installed on their beige boxes while completely forgetting that DOS - and Windows to a lesser extent - required a lot of tinkering as well at the same time. I can't be the only one that remembers the "joys" of using things like QEMM, tweaking AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS, installing Creative Plug-and-Pray device drivers, writing down IRQs and DMAs from IDE cards, fiddling with jumpers on motherboards and expansion cards, removing TSR software to free up more memory, setting up Netware IPX/SPX network settings and all that stuff just to get some games up and running!
Yes! Linux!
I had the same PC Case!
Enjoyed? I love it! 😄
excuse but in the timeline you missed DR-DOS because DR-DOS was very popular in the ninetees
I wish lredir was a standard dos command
Windows NT had redir for the similar porpouse on NTVDM
I prefer to run MS-DOS using Microsoft Virtual PC, although that product is discontinued. I don't use it for games, but it works well for serious applications.
freedos/dosemu is great. but you should look into using a real version of DOS using qemu. in my experience it works a little better
Nice
3:45 where is win 2k
And NT
If you can trick Windows in to running on a non Microsoft dos, you could get Windows 3.1 to work in at least real mode.
Good video
Thanks for dosemu -dumb hint!
No worries .. enjoy.
And subbed!
“the ocalhost login and the ASSWORD”
What happened to Dosemu? I'm running Ubuntu 2.10 and just checked my repos and dosemu isn't there. I googled it and got this ancient looking website: www.dosemu.org/
According to the wikipedia article on Dosemu the last release was in 2007! That article is void of any further information on what happened. Why did the development of Dosemu stop?
It got forked / rewritten to dosemu2 (for legal reasons I think) You can find it on Github and I believe it is still being maintained.
I was just able to install it with no issues on my main PC which is running modern Arch Linux so I don't see why there wouldn't be a version online or in official repos for Ubuntu?
Dosemu2 add an internal 8088 emulator to handle the lack of virtual real mode on x86-64 CPU.
However I think the most probable reason of the low usage of DosEmu was DosBox. Using a full CPU emulator enables to use real mode programs with non-standard extentions, unreal mode games (Ultima 7), protected mode programs that uses ring 0 which is the VCPI standard, or uses uncommom functions that prevent running on protected mode operating system. Any dos emulator that uses virtual real mode cannot use flat memory space beyond 1 MB unless uses DPMI provided by the DOS emulator.
Dosbox also runs on Android! I love playing my old dos games on my Snapdragon 855 SoC. I have 8GB RAM on my cellphone and a more powerful GPU than my GF's current laptop!
Yeah! This will teach her!
😊
Create simple CI/CD pipeline using dosemu :D
Hehe ... I should think about making a parody channel :) streaming event processing in the cloud with GWBasic and microsoft lan manager :)
I want your case. :)
0:19 "tarting Sendmail"
Ahh, VGA LCDs. I don't miss ye.
Friends don't let friends log in as root. Even on a "play" machine.
4:07 Red Hat had a philosophy in the early days of installing everything by default. They eventually discovered this was a bad idea. #AskMeHowIKnow
Good thing you remembered your "assword" right away.