Guess I have to be that guy: class D is not digital, it is analog. It uses high frequency switching for the amplification, but never converts the signal to a digital state. Nice build!
And also it is actually better to have the power of the amp be greater than the speaker to prevent it from distortion and therefore damaging the speaker. If you turn the speaker up way too loud it will get damaged no matter what.
I think it's "digital" in terms of the output state and pulse period, but not the pulse width. Obviously after the smoothing inductor it's just an ordinary sound wave.
@@buelow123 It depends. In multi way speakers, power distribution ratio gets shifted towards the midrange and treble as you increase the amount of clipping, so the midrange and treble will be better off with a more powerful amplifier within its clean limits, but the woofer will be worked harder. I mean it's also very variable with the type of music being played too. Using a more powerful amp will get you the most high quality performance out of the speakers you paid for, assuming you like it loud, but won't necessarily protect the speaker, even though it will sound better right up to its limits. This is a double edged sword as some people might push the speaker too hard as it is still sounding good. Though drivers do introduce their own version of clipping at mechanical limits, thermal limits can sneak up on you, even though those can change the sound signature too. It also depends on how speakers are power rated. A 200 watt speaker might cook with a 200 watt amplifier playing a sine wave. Many speakers are rated with music in mind, and it's nice to know that the kick drum going PHUT! at 200 watts for a tenth of a second won't damage it, while the rest of the music is at 10 watts. You have to be careful with more and more music having continuous bass and average levels creeping up so the speaker is staying at powers approaching the 200 watts more often and risking a voice coil overheat. Frequencies are another thing that I touched briefly up above. The power handling of a speaker is different depending on the frequency of the sound. Usually more in the bass and midrange and less in the tweeter. The tweeter can generally produce louder sound on the same power though, both due to its own sensitivity and your ears' sensitivity, which helps. Also at very low frequencies, the woofer can flap around and dent the voice coil former if it bangs into the back of the magnet. Best to filter those out especially in ported enclosures. It will also sound better if your bookshelf speaker isn't trying to reproduce 25Hz.
Class D is digital... PWM its not analog... Extremely high "sampling" of the analog input to give an indistinguishable signal from analog... P.S class D is technically the "cleanest", "purest" un coloured sound you'd get on a technical level with perfect filtering. 😅
Nice work. I've always been told to over spec the amp as you are more likely to blow speakers from clipping the amp than you are from overdriving the speakers.
Car audio guy since 95 ... always been told to have more power than you need...so you're not stressing your amp to its higher end/max...and was told by one VERY reputable family audio shop that they never had anyone blow subs from too much power, but have had a lot blow from under-powering them...this COULD have been a ploy to sell bigger amps. (This shop is still in business)
Overdriving the amp is worse than overdriving the speaker, though that applies far more to passive crossover speakers where the overdriven amp distortion puts more load on the tweeter. Speakers have two limits, sustained thermal and immediate peak
@@ralph90009 He actually mounted the lasers on top of the front speaker , pointing up and then used mirrors mounted on the ceiling so there is no risk of a person going in between the speaker and laser emitter. It's very clever, give the video a try. DIY Perks.
Lol- this is something so many youtubers fail to appreciate- the speakers will only ever sound as good as the ones the viewer is using to watch the video with.
I was curious if I can ear the difference on a good hifi shelf speakers (dynaudio), but yeah, no real diif, you really need an actual subwoofer to ear a difference.
@@lapindespices2806 There was a noticeable difference with an actual subwoofer. Not huge since mine is kinda shit, but there was one. I might consider making the one from the video.
Wow, beautiful build! One concern, though: the audio connector on the back of the subwoofer has now become an audio output instead of an input. If you connect it to the audio output of an amplifier via a cable, you could potentially damage the amplifier's output or the subwoofer's built-in audio receiver. To prevent this, you might consider adding a simple two-way switch. This would let you easily choose between the wireless or wired audio channel.
I would definetly add a simple toggle switch for feeding the amplifier wirelessly or by the terminals at the back. Back feeding a receiver can be an issue.
One thing I would highly recommend is T-nut fasteners and machine screws. These will add the ability to service the subwoofer indefinitely without concern for damaging the cabinet. Regular wood screws will stress the wood fiber and strip the threading material out of the hole after a few times in and out especially with the vibration and pressure a subwoofer can impart on the wood/fiber material over time.
As for power matching, Its always better for the amplifier to have more RMS power, than the speaker. This allows for more dynamic head room. When RMS is matched. You run out of head room and dynamics suffer when pushed to RMS. ..... RMS matching can create more stress on the amplifier, than the driver when being pushed! As a rule of thumb. I run twice the RMS power to my drivers. 1000 watt plate amplifier or a little more would give your design enough head room for dynamics and less stress on the amplifier to speaker relation. The drivers RMS can be passed just fine In on quick dynamic demand peaks. Even more if tuned. Without the danger of clipping the amplifier.
If you live in a flat I can recommend going for a dual opposing driver setup. Less vibrations transferred to the building. So less noise for your neighbors
@@peaceofvideo since the two drivers are opposing each other they don‘t cancel out. But the vibrations caused by the drivers do since they’re vibrating „against“ each other. The sonos sub is a good example for isobaric loading.
@@scarce911 I dont think he does, cuz in isobaric the drivers are facing eachother (most of the times) and they both move the same way (one has the wire polarity flipped to achieve this)
Sealed does not equal more compact. Depending on the resonant frequency you’re targeting a larger enclosure can be preferable. But, it’s mostly going to depend on the driver you’re using if you’re targeting efficiency. However, if you have a powerful driver, you can build a larger enclosure to get lower extension at a cost of efficiency. Enclosure design is definitely an art. Great job on the video! 😊
No no no, he's revolutionizing the way people build subwoofers! By utilizing off the shelf products made for this exact purpose, he's changing the way the industry works. Bravo! This video should be labeled: Complete guide on how to glue up some MDF cut by your CNC followed by trivial soldering.
@@holden-p3r why are you so angry? bro made a cool thing for himself, and made a simple 20 minute how to, to document the process, and show it to people. What cool thing did you do? Watch the video, and instead of clicking off when you didnt like it, be a bit of an ass in the comments? Right... do better.
just a hint: wireless speakers have a slight delay and if someone puts on a microwave you have really bad sound. if its not nessesary, dont go wireless on speakers (especially satelites that need external power after going wireless are a bad idea)
You can avoid the interference from microwaves by opting to use a 5GHz system instead of a 2.4GHz system. Additionally, the delay introduced by digital wireless audio is less often than 1ms and imperceptible to even trained ears. This is such a negligible amount that slightly moving the speaker forwards by a dozen centimeters can compensate for any phase shift caused by delays of this kind, and even then most modern AVRs have built in DSP that allows you to customize delays per channel. The listener is never going to be in the "perfect" position either and our ears are not a singular point anyway, so getting this nit-picky over delays doesn't even really accomplish anything. As long as it sounds good, it is fine, and these aren't really factors that are going to cause any issues to people switching over to wireless. There is no major benefit other than cost to using wired vs wireless because of these reasons, both are just as good as each other.
@@basspuppy133 I can disagree - 1 ms equals to 34 cm distance of sound travel in the air, which is quite perceivable when we're talking about RELATIVE delay to other speakers. On top of that, wireless communication is going to introduce an inconsistent delay, which only makes things worse. I've been taught by car audio guys about timing alignment of speakers, and I can say from experience that it makes a huge deal in forming a proper sound stage. If we speak about the home stereo, I used to have two different 2.1 setups driven by a DSP, and aligning the sub with the front speakers by delays made for example a kick drum sound like a kick drum. Let me know if you want me to tell more, I'd be glad to!
@@agarmash_ I can only agree. I tried to double the center channel on my Anthem setup, because the center was too low in height and got blocked by feet, so had to have a smaller center above the TV, and i used the "Zone 2" amp on the receiver while sourcing the sound from the "Main zone" center pre out. The result was terrible, as the "zone 2" digital processing added delay, which meant phase issues. If i want to do this, i have to scrap the "zone 2" and use a proper "no latency" analog amp for the extra center speaker, or else, sod it....
It puzzles me why they cannot make a system with imperceptible delay. If human hearing reaches up to about 20kHz I gues achieving a delay of less than one quarter wavelenght would be enough. That's a delay of 12us.
Please please PLEASE WEAR BREATHING PROTECTION WHEN YOU'RE MACHINING MDF. That stuff is hilariously toxic and breathing in it's dust is AWFUL for you, PLEASE put on a mask of literally any description when you're cutting/sanding it.
Using wireless for your sub and not your speakers can result in delay, most noticable in mid-bass, because there can be up to a 35ms delay in the wireless signal that is not present in your wired speakers. Adjust your receiver speaker distance/timing or DSP to compensate.
The design of the Sub looks great and the wireless feature is a nice addition. But threes things: first the damping you used in the sub is made for car audio and therefore meant to be sticked on metal. For wood i would recommend heavy foam as it’s the best for Bass frequency’s. Second there’s a ~1cm gap as far as I can see where the port end couples to the front plate. Installing a small wood ledge would help reduce port noise (chuffing) drastically. And third I see the reason you choose this amp but the 500w would be a better option since these Dayton drivers can take a lot of power without breaking or distorting from my personal experience. Other than that it’s a great build and video!
I'd like to add something to the fact that you said you want to match the amplifier power as closely to the subwoofer as possible. Only that's partly true, the rating on amps are usually the max power they can deliver but at times that is with 1% to even 10% distortion which doesn't always sound good. So It's recommended that you use a more overpowered amp and set the levels at the power rating of your speaker so in that way you don't blow up your speaker but also don't have any unwanted distortion from the amp.
Thanks ! Some EXCELLENT coverage of some important points to remember , and how they affect the overall build . I'll use these "points to remember" in _my_ next build 👍!
What I can truly recommend is to replace the cable between the amp and the speaker with a thicker one (I find 4mm^2 to be a great choice). Basically, the resistance of the cable directly impacts the damping factor in reverse ratio, and generally you want the damping factor to be as high as possible for better control and dynamics
There are limitations like vent mach when tuning your box via the port size/length. Make sure the cabinet is appropriate size as well. Building a good sub actually quite easy.
Awesome build! 👍 Just one note: many people mistakenly think that class D amps are "digital". They're not. The audio signal that goes in is analog, the amplified signal is analog. There's nothing digital in that.
Bro, class D amps "operate by rapidly switching back and forth between the supply rails, using pulse-width modulation, pulse-density modulation, or related techniques to produce a pulse train output." This is a form of modulation used to represent an analog signal with a binary signal. Knowing that digital means that something is expressed as series of the digits 0 and 1 there is a lot of digital in class D so please stahp that bs.
I would have bought and then trimmed down a much beefier isolation pad for the base. I switched my klipsch 12 inch ported sub from those kind of feet to a big sound addicted pad and i can't even describe how much it fixed things. Walls and floor stopped shaking because the subwoofer spotted using the literal house itself as a resonance surface. I no longer have to readjust my pictures on the wall when i watch mad max fury road or Dunkirk. You could trim one of those pads down to fit the footprint of your sub. Also i would edit in some text to mention how dangerous it is to be working on that amp board after you've energized it. Bare circuits and huge caps can and do kill people. It's not ridiculously dangerous but caution needs to be taken. And last, as some other guy said, class d is analog. Still, gorgeous work! Love custom speakers, even if I'll probably never build my own. Still rocking two gigantic kenwood speakers i found on the side of the road on trash day and restored. Not the best, but passive 15 inch radiators gives them amazing midbass
The bass port should be rounded, i have one DIY car subwoofer as a home theater sub with 15" driver but the guy who made it and bought it from made a bass port sharp. At lower volume you can't hear it but i making a parties with my friends more often than you think and i couldn't whithstand the " flutter " sound comming from that bass port. Next year i'll be making a whole new enclosure tuned around 18Hz so it'll be pretty damn big thing in my living room. The second subwoofer will be some trashy Technics whatever it is for higher frequencies starting around 35Hz so they should overlap themself pretty nicely.
Pretty sure what you're referring to is called "chuffing", and I'd recommend DYI Perks' latest video when it comes to your harmonic overlap scenario, though it's geared more towards a complete speaker build than just being a subwoofer enclosure.
@ i've seen that video don't worry :D they must to overlap because i don't have any other crossover for them laying around and those are home built with agressive slope specially made for that purpouse. Big boy's crossover can pass through anything from 0Hz basically to around 25-28Hz which after that has 12dB/octave reduction and the smaller 10" sub has crossover that starts at 33Hz and ends up at 47Hz with 6dB/octave slope. Mids and highs are set via AV receiver to not be able to play under 60Hz because they are kinda weak though i burnt my center speaker few months ago because i set the equalizer wrong and i let the whole pallete of sound spectrum to enter the center channel while i was making a party and it died just after a few second after the Drum n Bass bass drop. And also i have bass boosted frequencies for those two subs but right now the big boy can't play efficiently below 30Hz you can barely hear it pass that frequency.. it is kinda mixed up all together but it sounds really good and it'll be even more after i make that 18Hz tuned box. I really want to push my window in to the street i really hope it will happen but if not i'm building another one fr
You can run both subwoofers. Sometimes it can help with dead spots which you probably will have, depending on placement of the sub. Place one on one wall and the other on an adjacent wall, run them 180 degrees out of phase. I have 2 Klipsch 12in ported subwoofers that go down to 24hz. Music at low volume sounds fuller because of the attenuated base and action movies can/will shake the house.
Zac, did you see DIYPerks built a wireless home theater that transmits the signal via laser?!? Theoretically zero audio compression as he replaced the TOSLINK output with a low power laser.
Very cool, the one thing I know would go wrong in my house is that sub would be a very tempting surface for accumulation. Maybe adding a glass shelf with rubber feet might help?
I have a really old book from the 80's titled 'Subwoofer Design'. It was only about 400 pages. It was 400 pages of math and design considerations.... :P
Your info on enough watts is incorrect, watts in speaker spec is only a thermal limit of that Rs315HF you've used, it could take a 1000wrms amp all day long because sound is dynamic the only time it will become a problem is if you feed it constantly from a tone generator(ie SPL car audio nuts)at high SPL's for several minutes. Also that sound deadening applied inside was a waste of it, you've already braced that cab well enough to not need it! All in all though its a nice build that'll last you many years, well done.
If anything adding another sub will help balance the room your not supposed to be able to hear where bass comes from but having more than one sub in room helps, if you want to go all out check out what rel do with their six packs that’s a whole new level again
You also ideally want more power from Amp than rated. Then you can max the sub ability. Underpowering speakers and turning up will cause more damage if the Amp signal clips and flat lines the sub
@@R4MP4G3RXD The switching is value-discrete but time-continuous, so it is not digital. The timing when the switching happens is analogue from a comparator, so for half the transitions, the switching doesn't happen at any of the discrete timesteps but when the sawtooth or similar timing signal happens to cross over the reference signal in analogue domain.
@@SianaGearz Yes but class D amplifiers have a carrier frequency which ultimately determines how detailed the spwm signal is; wouldn't that technically make it a discrete sampler? Also by that train of thought are asynchronous logic gates analog?
My Vizio sound bar / surround combo already has wireless connectivity to the subwoofer (which you plug the surround speakers into) Still an awesome build though
what id like to see is a compact subwoofer build. My truck in particular doesnt even have space for underseat subs. 05' Ranger standard cab, currently I have Rockvilles 12 inch sub behind the bench seat. box 4 inches on top and its base is six inches wide. dont remember how long it is off the top of my head. does sound surprisingly really good though. just enough room but no movement with the seat. would love an alternative I could build myself.
Nice choice. I used the Dayton UM18-22 and a behringer NX6000D amp for mine. Outperforms my Paradigm Servo 15 by a big margin and I have a second amp channel to add another UM18-22 in the future (which I will do). And cost wise it was $2.2k AUD to buy everything and build it
Man I miss my Servo, what a fantastic bit of kit that was, so far ahead of it's time! I got rid of mine in favor of a sunfire and later an SVS, wouldn't mind getting hold of another servo just for nostalgia.
Really cool you were able to get that done at 14:40, being able to customize with both wood and electronics makes for some really cool project like this one, glad YT put this on my feed today.
I built my bass amp with two 12s in a double cube cabinet. One side is ported, one side is not. While it does give me the best of both worlds, the drivers may or may not be in phase at any given frequency. With some sawtooth distortion and clipping from the amplifier stage, it's really hard to tell, though. Edit: While a personal fan of the black boring box, I built my box out of a large shelving unit that had maple veneer, and I made the grillecloth from a pair of Adidas track pants, with the stripes running across the face of the box. It's called the "Blyamp". Edit 2: Class D is not digital. It's just PWM.
Generally, what you opted for as off volume and tuning frequency could be better. As of now, this subwoofer has an f3 of 28.8Hz. If you opted to use the tuning frequency of 25Hz, you would get a f3 of 26.7Hz. But this driver is optimal in a box of 73L (not including port) and a tuning frequency of 25Hz to get an f3 of 24.6Hz.
You did not need the kill mat at all and half the bracing does nothing but take up space and make you feel better, but it looks good and more people should build things sweet box
You really f'd up that port, having the oval opening makes it smaller than the rest of the port length and will create turbulence. The port volume will be forced though a narrower opening and will make more unwanted port noise known as port chuffing. Also painting some of those areas before putting the WOOD glue down means the glue cant soak into the wood fibers properly which is very bad for the structural integrity of those joints.
I love how the actual important information regarding subwoofer design is completely missing from this video, and has been replaced with somewhat related information grossly misinterpreted. There is so much misinformation in this video it's painful, and seeing the comments following a similar trend of regurgitating mindless fluff as if it's fact just makes it worse.
If you know anything about speakers all of his DIY speaker videos are basically rage bait. I haven't even watched this one, I just came to the comments to verify it's business as usual.
You actually want a more powerful amplifier than the speaker. This is so you have headroom and are not driving the amplifier into clipping. This can cause the sub to still blow even at lower wattage. A perfect match for this sub would be a proper gain matched SPA-500.
My question for you: do you think there is a viable way to get power from speaker wiring/RCA? You could replace your current wired speakers that way ans still have power.
Great video! Quick note/question: does the vocal audio sound a little muffled to anyone else? It sound like there's a barrier between his voice and the mic to me
I can't even imagine the astronomical view counts you would get if you teamed up to build something with Drew Anger from Drew Builds Stuff. It needs to happen!
It may be a new concept to make the sub wireless, but it's not really anything new. I remember back in the early to mid 2000s, my family had a pretty decent home theater system and it had wireless rear speakers so we could put them all the way on the other side of the room and not run any cables along the floor to the DVD player (which had the amp integrated). They were technically passive, but still needed to be plugged into the wall for the receiver to work.
Bluetooth can add a bit of latency but overall if you want less cables that's the wat to go and btw i also suggest to hot glue the wires to the speaker walls because at low frequencies the wires can start vibrating and would start making a annoying rattling sound in the speaker
Hi Zac! A long time viewer here! You assumption about driver "watt" number should match the amplifier's "watt" number is blatantly wrong simply because of physics. The amp's rating of 300 watts has to be questioned, is it peak power at 10% THD? Or is it at it's maximum cleanest power before ramping up THD? USUALLY amplifier manufacturers will use power rating @1% THD, but some will omit the 1% THD and go for max power before blowing up. What kills your driver (or to be specific, it's voice coil) is the amp clipping - which will apply a constant high-ish voltage to your voice coil, getting it hot. When coils get hot, it's resistance increases up to a certain degree, after that, the coil will simply burn (the wire will burn off in a section of the coil). You can have a 1000 watt "rated" amp to drive a 300 watt "rated" subwoofer driver, what you get is HEADROOM where when your audio content requires a "punch" beyond "300 watts", your amp has it. FYI, let's say your 300 watts amp and your subwoofer produces 100dB SPL, to get the SPL to 103 SPL you need 600 watts, to get it to 106 dB SPL, you need 1200 watts. So the bigger the amp, the better you'll be simply because your speaker has smaller chance of burning out (hopefully you won't reach clipping level of your amp by having a HUGE amp). On the other hand, if you have a HUGE amp and your subwoofer driver's suspension system is not up to par, the one bad thing mechanically that can happen is that your cone/voice coil/former assembly will hit the bottom of the magnet, and at worst, it may "blow up", as in the suspension system can't hold on to the cone and the cone gets ripped off out of the suspension system - the visual will look like the woofer's cone got "blown away", ripping out the surround, spider, and wires...
really cool video as usual no way I have the skills, talent, or time for this so I'm likely to just buy an off the shelf solution but I love this kind of stuff
I have 4 x 18" sealed subs and never had an issue with my neighbors saying anything even though that room is right next to their house. And that was the same with my old 12" SVS trash-can style subs. I don't think sub waves pass through your wall into the outdoors and through your neighbor's house that easily.
Did I miss your video on your height speakers? I've been playing with some lower end atmos setups and have been terribly dissapointed. Was this part of a kit or purpose built by you?
Note that the wave link system's manual states a minimum audio response frequency of 20 Hz. Low enough for most. But some high-end receivers can go lower than that thus losing some quality.
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Guess I have to be that guy: class D is not digital, it is analog. It uses high frequency switching for the amplification, but never converts the signal to a digital state.
Nice build!
And also it is actually better to have the power of the amp be greater than the speaker to prevent it from distortion and therefore damaging the speaker. If you turn the speaker up way too loud it will get damaged no matter what.
I think it's "digital" in terms of the output state and pulse period, but not the pulse width. Obviously after the smoothing inductor it's just an ordinary sound wave.
@@buelow123 It depends. In multi way speakers, power distribution ratio gets shifted towards the midrange and treble as you increase the amount of clipping, so the midrange and treble will be better off with a more powerful amplifier within its clean limits, but the woofer will be worked harder. I mean it's also very variable with the type of music being played too.
Using a more powerful amp will get you the most high quality performance out of the speakers you paid for, assuming you like it loud, but won't necessarily protect the speaker, even though it will sound better right up to its limits. This is a double edged sword as some people might push the speaker too hard as it is still sounding good. Though drivers do introduce their own version of clipping at mechanical limits, thermal limits can sneak up on you, even though those can change the sound signature too.
It also depends on how speakers are power rated. A 200 watt speaker might cook with a 200 watt amplifier playing a sine wave. Many speakers are rated with music in mind, and it's nice to know that the kick drum going PHUT! at 200 watts for a tenth of a second won't damage it, while the rest of the music is at 10 watts. You have to be careful with more and more music having continuous bass and average levels creeping up so the speaker is staying at powers approaching the 200 watts more often and risking a voice coil overheat.
Frequencies are another thing that I touched briefly up above. The power handling of a speaker is different depending on the frequency of the sound. Usually more in the bass and midrange and less in the tweeter. The tweeter can generally produce louder sound on the same power though, both due to its own sensitivity and your ears' sensitivity, which helps. Also at very low frequencies, the woofer can flap around and dent the voice coil former if it bangs into the back of the magnet. Best to filter those out especially in ported enclosures. It will also sound better if your bookshelf speaker isn't trying to reproduce 25Hz.
Pffft what would this guy know
Checks username
Oh...
Class D is digital... PWM its not analog... Extremely high "sampling" of the analog input to give an indistinguishable signal from analog... P.S class D is technically the "cleanest", "purest" un coloured sound you'd get on a technical level with perfect filtering. 😅
Thats one chubby TIE Fighter!
I'm glad I wasn't the only one
I would always drive subs with amps rated for double the drivers power where possible. Nothing wrong with headroom especially with dsp control.
Exactly. I would go for something in the 500w range for this sub except for class AB amps then you’d be fine with 300 watts
Nice work. I've always been told to over spec the amp as you are more likely to blow speakers from clipping the amp than you are from overdriving the speakers.
Car audio guy since 95 ... always been told to have more power than you need...so you're not stressing your amp to its higher end/max...and was told by one VERY reputable family audio shop that they never had anyone blow subs from too much power, but have had a lot blow from under-powering them...this COULD have been a ploy to sell bigger amps. (This shop is still in business)
More headroom, more good
Agreed, always better to have some headroom for transients rather than hit the clipping
Overdriving the amp is worse than overdriving the speaker, though that applies far more to passive crossover speakers where the overdriven amp distortion puts more load on the tweeter. Speakers have two limits, sustained thermal and immediate peak
Is this more applicable to solid-state amps vs. tube amps?
About the wires, DIY Perks made a video about it a few days ago in case anyone missed it. It is worth watching
I dont think the laser line of sight limitation would make them easy to use in a house.
@@ralph90009 yeah, it was pretty interesting but looked unreliable, cumbersome, and expensive.
@@ralph90009 Limitations are limitations I mean why not just use a cheap Bluetooth speaker?
yeah worth watching to know what not to do xD
@@ralph90009 He actually mounted the lasers on top of the front speaker , pointing up and then used mirrors mounted on the ceiling so there is no risk of a person going in between the speaker and laser emitter. It's very clever, give the video a try. DIY Perks.
loved the side by side demonstration. really enjoyed it on my Creative Pebble V3 8W speaker.
Lol- this is something so many youtubers fail to appreciate- the speakers will only ever sound as good as the ones the viewer is using to watch the video with.
They sounded identical with my fairly high-end headphones.
Not very bassy on my iPhone 8 speaker…
I was curious if I can ear the difference on a good hifi shelf speakers (dynaudio), but yeah, no real diif, you really need an actual subwoofer to ear a difference.
@@lapindespices2806 There was a noticeable difference with an actual subwoofer. Not huge since mine is kinda shit, but there was one.
I might consider making the one from the video.
Wow, beautiful build! One concern, though: the audio connector on the back of the subwoofer has now become an audio output instead of an input. If you connect it to the audio output of an amplifier via a cable, you could potentially damage the amplifier's output or the subwoofer's built-in audio receiver.
To prevent this, you might consider adding a simple two-way switch. This would let you easily choose between the wireless or wired audio channel.
I would definetly add a simple toggle switch for feeding the amplifier wirelessly or by the terminals at the back. Back feeding a receiver can be an issue.
One thing I would highly recommend is T-nut fasteners and machine screws. These will add the ability to service the subwoofer indefinitely without concern for damaging the cabinet. Regular wood screws will stress the wood fiber and strip the threading material out of the hole after a few times in and out especially with the vibration and pressure a subwoofer can impart on the wood/fiber material over time.
@@erickvond6825 Yess, proper fasteners are so nice and with how common nyloc is there's no worry of accidental unscrewing.
As for power matching, Its always better for the amplifier to have more RMS power, than the speaker. This allows for more dynamic head room. When RMS is matched. You run out of head room and dynamics suffer when pushed to RMS. ..... RMS matching can create more stress on the amplifier, than the driver when being pushed! As a rule of thumb. I run twice the RMS power to my drivers. 1000 watt plate amplifier or a little more would give your design enough head room for dynamics and less stress on the amplifier to speaker relation. The drivers RMS can be passed just fine In on quick dynamic demand peaks. Even more if tuned. Without the danger of clipping the amplifier.
If you live in a flat I can recommend going for a dual opposing driver setup. Less vibrations transferred to the building. So less noise for your neighbors
Huh? Does it play the inverse of the wave?
@@peaceofvideoi feel like he's talking about isobaric configuration (push/pull)
@@peaceofvideo since the two drivers are opposing each other they don‘t cancel out. But the vibrations caused by the drivers do since they’re vibrating „against“ each other. The sonos sub is a good example for isobaric loading.
@@scarce911 I dont think he does, cuz in isobaric the drivers are facing eachother (most of the times) and they both move the same way (one has the wire polarity flipped to achieve this)
Sealed does not equal more compact. Depending on the resonant frequency you’re targeting a larger enclosure can be preferable. But, it’s mostly going to depend on the driver you’re using if you’re targeting efficiency. However, if you have a powerful driver, you can build a larger enclosure to get lower extension at a cost of efficiency. Enclosure design is definitely an art. Great job on the video! 😊
I thought you were going to build a servo subwoofer. I never thought of putting the wireless receiver inside the speaker. Good idea!
They make plate amps that already have wireless functionality.. Even so nice job
@Kevlar187 what’s the price difference
No no no, he's revolutionizing the way people build subwoofers! By utilizing off the shelf products made for this exact purpose, he's changing the way the industry works. Bravo!
This video should be labeled: Complete guide on how to glue up some MDF cut by your CNC followed by trivial soldering.
@@holden-p3r why are you so angry? bro made a cool thing for himself, and made a simple 20 minute how to, to document the process, and show it to people. What cool thing did you do? Watch the video, and instead of clicking off when you didnt like it, be a bit of an ass in the comments? Right... do better.
@@retroferret3424When he stops blatantly lying in his content, I'll dial back my snarky comments
I like the speaker of this video, and the wireless solution of diy perks. I'm gonna try to combine the two.
just a hint: wireless speakers have a slight delay and if someone puts on a microwave you have really bad sound. if its not nessesary, dont go wireless on speakers (especially satelites that need external power after going wireless are a bad idea)
Check out DIY perks who used lasers to eliminate lag
You can avoid the interference from microwaves by opting to use a 5GHz system instead of a 2.4GHz system. Additionally, the delay introduced by digital wireless audio is less often than 1ms and imperceptible to even trained ears. This is such a negligible amount that slightly moving the speaker forwards by a dozen centimeters can compensate for any phase shift caused by delays of this kind, and even then most modern AVRs have built in DSP that allows you to customize delays per channel. The listener is never going to be in the "perfect" position either and our ears are not a singular point anyway, so getting this nit-picky over delays doesn't even really accomplish anything. As long as it sounds good, it is fine, and these aren't really factors that are going to cause any issues to people switching over to wireless. There is no major benefit other than cost to using wired vs wireless because of these reasons, both are just as good as each other.
@@basspuppy133 I can disagree - 1 ms equals to 34 cm distance of sound travel in the air, which is quite perceivable when we're talking about RELATIVE delay to other speakers. On top of that, wireless communication is going to introduce an inconsistent delay, which only makes things worse.
I've been taught by car audio guys about timing alignment of speakers, and I can say from experience that it makes a huge deal in forming a proper sound stage.
If we speak about the home stereo, I used to have two different 2.1 setups driven by a DSP, and aligning the sub with the front speakers by delays made for example a kick drum sound like a kick drum.
Let me know if you want me to tell more, I'd be glad to!
@@agarmash_ I can only agree. I tried to double the center channel on my Anthem setup, because the center was too low in height and got blocked by feet, so had to have a smaller center above the TV, and i used the "Zone 2" amp on the receiver while sourcing the sound from the "Main zone" center pre out. The result was terrible, as the "zone 2" digital processing added delay, which meant phase issues. If i want to do this, i have to scrap the "zone 2" and use a proper "no latency" analog amp for the extra center speaker, or else, sod it....
It puzzles me why they cannot make a system with imperceptible delay. If human hearing reaches up to about 20kHz I gues achieving a delay of less than one quarter wavelenght would be enough. That's a delay of 12us.
Please please PLEASE WEAR BREATHING PROTECTION WHEN YOU'RE MACHINING MDF.
That stuff is hilariously toxic and breathing in it's dust is AWFUL for you, PLEASE put on a mask of literally any description when you're cutting/sanding it.
Just a little formaldehyde 😮😊😮😊😮😊
Using wireless for your sub and not your speakers can result in delay, most noticable in mid-bass, because there can be up to a 35ms delay in the wireless signal that is not present in your wired speakers. Adjust your receiver speaker distance/timing or DSP to compensate.
I love how perfectly the TV is mounted directly at eye level
So few people do it and so many people complain about sore necks!
nearly impossible to do when you have a full-size tv and not a tiny 55".
Lies, move your electronics to a shelf on the side and wall mount. Get rid of those gaudy tv cabinets@@FJB2020
No kidding. We need a dept of correct TV height and those people who put TVs high on mantels should be punished.
The design of the Sub looks great and the wireless feature is a nice addition. But threes things: first the damping you used in the sub is made for car audio and therefore meant to be sticked on metal. For wood i would recommend heavy foam as it’s the best for Bass frequency’s. Second there’s a ~1cm gap as far as I can see where the port end couples to the front plate. Installing a small wood ledge would help reduce port noise (chuffing) drastically. And third I see the reason you choose this amp but the 500w would be a better option since these Dayton drivers can take a lot of power without breaking or distorting from my personal experience. Other than that it’s a great build and video!
If I ever travel to Canada 🇨🇦 🍁 I want to hang out and build stuff with Zac 🤯
I'd like to add something to the fact that you said you want to match the amplifier power as closely to the subwoofer as possible. Only that's partly true, the rating on amps are usually the max power they can deliver but at times that is with 1% to even 10% distortion which doesn't always sound good. So It's recommended that you use a more overpowered amp and set the levels at the power rating of your speaker so in that way you don't blow up your speaker but also don't have any unwanted distortion from the amp.
Car Audio Fabrication enters the chat....
Thanks ! Some EXCELLENT coverage of some important points to remember , and how they affect the overall build . I'll use these "points to remember" in _my_ next build 👍!
You're going to want to fabric over your port , that close to the floor it will collect a lot of dirt and trash, otherwise great build
A super fine black plastic mesh would look great stretched over the entire front I think
But would have to be tucked behind the driver somehow
What I can truly recommend is to replace the cable between the amp and the speaker with a thicker one (I find 4mm^2 to be a great choice). Basically, the resistance of the cable directly impacts the damping factor in reverse ratio, and generally you want the damping factor to be as high as possible for better control and dynamics
0:52 “subwooper”
That's a beautiful build Zac, the look is so tidy, and that wireless module seems work a treat!
Those RS Dayton HF drivers are fantastic bang for your buck driver. Sound Quality is top notch. I know, I built a 15" version of this.
There are limitations like vent mach when tuning your box via the port size/length. Make sure the cabinet is appropriate size as well. Building a good sub actually quite easy.
Awesome build! 👍
Just one note: many people mistakenly think that class D amps are "digital". They're not. The audio signal that goes in is analog, the amplified signal is analog. There's nothing digital in that.
Bro, class D amps "operate by rapidly switching back and forth between the supply rails, using pulse-width modulation, pulse-density modulation, or related techniques to produce a pulse train output." This is a form of modulation used to represent an analog signal with a binary signal. Knowing that digital means that something is expressed as series of the digits 0 and 1 there is a lot of digital in class D so please stahp that bs.
Doesn't the metal FOIL of the sound dampening pads interfere with the signal as you screwed the wifi unit directly to it?
Always use WinIsd when designing a box. Especially a ported box, so you know where to set the high pass filter to protect from ultra low frequencies.
I would have bought and then trimmed down a much beefier isolation pad for the base. I switched my klipsch 12 inch ported sub from those kind of feet to a big sound addicted pad and i can't even describe how much it fixed things. Walls and floor stopped shaking because the subwoofer spotted using the literal house itself as a resonance surface. I no longer have to readjust my pictures on the wall when i watch mad max fury road or Dunkirk. You could trim one of those pads down to fit the footprint of your sub.
Also i would edit in some text to mention how dangerous it is to be working on that amp board after you've energized it. Bare circuits and huge caps can and do kill people. It's not ridiculously dangerous but caution needs to be taken.
And last, as some other guy said, class d is analog.
Still, gorgeous work! Love custom speakers, even if I'll probably never build my own. Still rocking two gigantic kenwood speakers i found on the side of the road on trash day and restored. Not the best, but passive 15 inch radiators gives them amazing midbass
The bass port should be rounded, i have one DIY car subwoofer as a home theater sub with 15" driver but the guy who made it and bought it from made a bass port sharp. At lower volume you can't hear it but i making a parties with my friends more often than you think and i couldn't whithstand the " flutter " sound comming from that bass port. Next year i'll be making a whole new enclosure tuned around 18Hz so it'll be pretty damn big thing in my living room. The second subwoofer will be some trashy Technics whatever it is for higher frequencies starting around 35Hz so they should overlap themself pretty nicely.
Pretty sure what you're referring to is called "chuffing", and I'd recommend DYI Perks' latest video when it comes to your harmonic overlap scenario, though it's geared more towards a complete speaker build than just being a subwoofer enclosure.
@ i've seen that video don't worry :D they must to overlap because i don't have any other crossover for them laying around and those are home built with agressive slope specially made for that purpouse. Big boy's crossover can pass through anything from 0Hz basically to around 25-28Hz which after that has 12dB/octave reduction and the smaller 10" sub has crossover that starts at 33Hz and ends up at 47Hz with 6dB/octave slope. Mids and highs are set via AV receiver to not be able to play under 60Hz because they are kinda weak though i burnt my center speaker few months ago because i set the equalizer wrong and i let the whole pallete of sound spectrum to enter the center channel while i was making a party and it died just after a few second after the Drum n Bass bass drop. And also i have bass boosted frequencies for those two subs but right now the big boy can't play efficiently below 30Hz you can barely hear it pass that frequency.. it is kinda mixed up all together but it sounds really good and it'll be even more after i make that 18Hz tuned box. I really want to push my window in to the street i really hope it will happen but if not i'm building another one fr
BTW I'm not dissing your work, you have a terrific project, just a few questions that came to mind.
You can run both subwoofers. Sometimes it can help with dead spots which you probably will have, depending on placement of the sub. Place one on one wall and the other on an adjacent wall, run them 180 degrees out of phase. I have 2 Klipsch 12in ported subwoofers that go down to 24hz. Music at low volume sounds fuller because of the attenuated base and action movies can/will shake the house.
Zac, did you see DIYPerks built a wireless home theater that transmits the signal via laser?!? Theoretically zero audio compression as he replaced the TOSLINK output with a low power laser.
16:02 🙏 I was literally just looking for some good recommendations for a 3d printer
Never been an audiophile, but it's funny I can't help but notice the difference in your lav mic in the woodshop.
Since you have the room and you're replacing a Klipsch branded subwoofer, I'm surprised you didn't go with a corner horn.
Very cool, the one thing I know would go wrong in my house is that sub would be a very tempting surface for accumulation. Maybe adding a glass shelf with rubber feet might help?
I have a really old book from the 80's titled 'Subwoofer Design'. It was only about 400 pages. It was 400 pages of math and design considerations.... :P
I’ve founded that most home theater subwoofers are tuned around 20hz my klipsch R-12SW is tuned to 29hz!
My 12sw is definitely not 😂😂 more like 40hz
Your info on enough watts is incorrect, watts in speaker spec is only a thermal limit of that Rs315HF you've used, it could take a 1000wrms amp all day long because sound is dynamic the only time it will become a problem is if you feed it constantly from a tone generator(ie SPL car audio nuts)at high SPL's for several minutes.
Also that sound deadening applied inside was a waste of it, you've already braced that cab well enough to not need it!
All in all though its a nice build that'll last you many years, well done.
If anything adding another sub will help balance the room your not supposed to be able to hear where bass comes from but having more than one sub in room helps, if you want to go all out check out what rel do with their six packs that’s a whole new level again
In my opinion, sealed Subwoofers with enough speaker area, and an audio-processor to expand the low-output is the best.
You also ideally want more power from Amp than rated. Then you can max the sub ability. Underpowering speakers and turning up will cause more damage if the Amp signal clips and flat lines the sub
Really love the video! But class-D doesn't mean digital. Also it looks a bit like a TIE fighter 😅
Thank you! I thought I misheard the “Class D” comment.
Well it could be classified a digital beacause it's switch mode, square spwm signal through a low pass filter
@@R4MP4G3RXD The switching is value-discrete but time-continuous, so it is not digital. The timing when the switching happens is analogue from a comparator, so for half the transitions, the switching doesn't happen at any of the discrete timesteps but when the sawtooth or similar timing signal happens to cross over the reference signal in analogue domain.
@@SianaGearz Yes but class D amplifiers have a carrier frequency which ultimately determines how detailed the spwm signal is; wouldn't that technically make it a discrete sampler?
Also by that train of thought are asynchronous logic gates analog?
@@R4MP4G3RXD Yeah... it seems like a digital amplifier to me, from whatever definition of digital I have stuck in my head.
This channel is so fun!
My Vizio sound bar / surround combo already has wireless connectivity to the subwoofer (which you plug the surround speakers into)
Still an awesome build though
what id like to see is a compact subwoofer build. My truck in particular doesnt even have space for underseat subs. 05' Ranger standard cab, currently I have Rockvilles 12 inch sub behind the bench seat. box 4 inches on top and its base is six inches wide. dont remember how long it is off the top of my head. does sound surprisingly really good though. just enough room but no movement with the seat. would love an alternative I could build myself.
Not using screened audio cable from the wifi receiver to the amp would keep me up at night. lol Great build!
Nice choice. I used the Dayton UM18-22 and a behringer NX6000D amp for mine. Outperforms my Paradigm Servo 15 by a big margin and I have a second amp channel to add another UM18-22 in the future (which I will do). And cost wise it was $2.2k AUD to buy everything and build it
I have two UM18-22s in the DIYSG sealed boxes with a single Crown XLi3500. Sounds amazing and shakes the house lol..
Man I miss my Servo, what a fantastic bit of kit that was, so far ahead of it's time! I got rid of mine in favor of a sunfire and later an SVS, wouldn't mind getting hold of another servo just for nostalgia.
awesome timing I been thinking what am I gonna do with this 10" and these 12's
Really cool you were able to get that done at 14:40, being able to customize with both wood and electronics makes for some really cool project like this one, glad YT put this on my feed today.
I wonder if the wirelessness makes some audio delay
Will the delay cause some problems, especially around the crossover freq? Perhaps for low frequencies it is okay. Otherwise a fancy build
I built my bass amp with two 12s in a double cube cabinet. One side is ported, one side is not. While it does give me the best of both worlds, the drivers may or may not be in phase at any given frequency.
With some sawtooth distortion and clipping from the amplifier stage, it's really hard to tell, though.
Edit: While a personal fan of the black boring box, I built my box out of a large shelving unit that had maple veneer, and I made the grillecloth from a pair of Adidas track pants, with the stripes running across the face of the box. It's called the "Blyamp".
Edit 2: Class D is not digital. It's just PWM.
Generally, what you opted for as off volume and tuning frequency could be better. As of now, this subwoofer has an f3 of 28.8Hz. If you opted to use the tuning frequency of 25Hz, you would get a f3 of 26.7Hz. But this driver is optimal in a box of 73L (not including port) and a tuning frequency of 25Hz to get an f3 of 24.6Hz.
You did not need the kill mat at all and half the bracing does nothing but take up space and make you feel better, but it looks good and more people should build things sweet box
I bet the curing at the window worked good enough, but aren’t typical windows intransparent to UV?
Very nice video and what a beautiful subwoofer build. thank you for posting this.
You really f'd up that port, having the oval opening makes it smaller than the rest of the port length and will create turbulence. The port volume will be forced though a narrower opening and will make more unwanted port noise known as port chuffing. Also painting some of those areas before putting the WOOD glue down means the glue cant soak into the wood fibers properly which is very bad for the structural integrity of those joints.
He has "Atmos speakers" that point up.. I wouldn't take ANYTHING he says about speakers seriously...
I am so jealous of that shop.
Omg!! Zac is a big handsome baby !!!! 😍❤️
I love how the actual important information regarding subwoofer design is completely missing from this video, and has been replaced with somewhat related information grossly misinterpreted.
There is so much misinformation in this video it's painful, and seeing the comments following a similar trend of regurgitating mindless fluff as if it's fact just makes it worse.
If you know anything about speakers all of his DIY speaker videos are basically rage bait. I haven't even watched this one, I just came to the comments to verify it's business as usual.
Those wood grain speakers are sick! 🤩
I have that exact klipsch subwoofer. I also have klipsch front standing, centre and surround speakers
Personally i like sealed box, bcz it produces very clean sound.. 😊
First DIY Perks then you, I guess the universe wants me to buy a home theatre system. 😂
You actually want a more powerful amplifier than the speaker. This is so you have headroom and are not driving the amplifier into clipping. This can cause the sub to still blow even at lower wattage. A perfect match for this sub would be a proper gain matched SPA-500.
whats a good tip on figuring out mounting holes on a pcb i always struggle on getting that just right
My question for you: do you think there is a viable way to get power from speaker wiring/RCA? You could replace your current wired speakers that way ans still have power.
Great video! Quick note/question: does the vocal audio sound a little muffled to anyone else? It sound like there's a barrier between his voice and the mic to me
Sounds like some sort of noise reduction
Yeah I heard that too
Parts of the video definitely sound like his lav mic was under his hoodie. Pretty lame mistake for a video about sound equipment.
do the angles, edges, and volume of the butyl sheets that you stuck all over the internal surfaces interfere with the sound waves?
I can't even imagine the astronomical view counts you would get if you teamed up to build something with Drew Anger from Drew Builds Stuff. It needs to happen!
It may be a new concept to make the sub wireless, but it's not really anything new. I remember back in the early to mid 2000s, my family had a pretty decent home theater system and it had wireless rear speakers so we could put them all the way on the other side of the room and not run any cables along the floor to the DVD player (which had the amp integrated). They were technically passive, but still needed to be plugged into the wall for the receiver to work.
Bluetooth can add a bit of latency but overall if you want less cables that's the wat to go and btw i also suggest to hot glue the wires to the speaker walls because at low frequencies the wires can start vibrating and would start making a annoying rattling sound in the speaker
We have different ideas around MASSIVE! LOL Nice work.
Please do a passive wireless setup next! Its been a pain in the current products available
There's a pretty good reason you don't see many of those I'm afraid.
4:10 I forgot about this legendary video 😂
arg yes the CNC machine having kinda DYI, love that ... for you
Naiiiil Gun!
Looks odd. The rest of your setup is rather slim and close to the wall. You should build a tall slim sub next.
Actually best timing for me just was looking today about buying or should diy one sub thanks for vid bro you got a sub
Hi Zac! A long time viewer here! You assumption about driver "watt" number should match the amplifier's "watt" number is blatantly wrong simply because of physics. The amp's rating of 300 watts has to be questioned, is it peak power at 10% THD? Or is it at it's maximum cleanest power before ramping up THD? USUALLY amplifier manufacturers will use power rating @1% THD, but some will omit the 1% THD and go for max power before blowing up. What kills your driver (or to be specific, it's voice coil) is the amp clipping - which will apply a constant high-ish voltage to your voice coil, getting it hot. When coils get hot, it's resistance increases up to a certain degree, after that, the coil will simply burn (the wire will burn off in a section of the coil). You can have a 1000 watt "rated" amp to drive a 300 watt "rated" subwoofer driver, what you get is HEADROOM where when your audio content requires a "punch" beyond "300 watts", your amp has it. FYI, let's say your 300 watts amp and your subwoofer produces 100dB SPL, to get the SPL to 103 SPL you need 600 watts, to get it to 106 dB SPL, you need 1200 watts. So the bigger the amp, the better you'll be simply because your speaker has smaller chance of burning out (hopefully you won't reach clipping level of your amp by having a HUGE amp). On the other hand, if you have a HUGE amp and your subwoofer driver's suspension system is not up to par, the one bad thing mechanically that can happen is that your cone/voice coil/former assembly will hit the bottom of the magnet, and at worst, it may "blow up", as in the suspension system can't hold on to the cone and the cone gets ripped off out of the suspension system - the visual will look like the woofer's cone got "blown away", ripping out the surround, spider, and wires...
Now you need to build a second one :)
really cool video as usual
no way I have the skills, talent, or time for this so I'm likely to just buy an off the shelf solution but I love this kind of stuff
What about the latency of the wirelsss connection? How do you sync the woofer with the rest of the audio signal?
But how much did you spend versus the store bought?
I have 4 x 18" sealed subs and never had an issue with my neighbors saying anything even though that room is right next to their house. And that was the same with my old 12" SVS trash-can style subs. I don't think sub waves pass through your wall into the outdoors and through your neighbor's house that easily.
BTW, you absolutely can have an amp with more power than the driver can handle. It's great to have a bit of head room. No need to go overboard though.
Very nice project. How does the Monster Cable community feel about our Dayton wireless transmitter/receiver?? Seems kinda heretical.
If only i could live in your house! Its so futuristic!
I love your videos man they entertain me and my kiddos every time you drop a new banger
Did I miss your video on your height speakers? I've been playing with some lower end atmos setups and have been terribly dissapointed. Was this part of a kit or purpose built by you?
What is frequency response on that driver? I missed that if you put it out there.
So what was the total cost at the end?
Can you get some measurements ?
Note that the wave link system's manual states a minimum audio response frequency of 20 Hz.
Low enough for most. But some high-end receivers can go lower than that thus losing some quality.