Logically, sure you could say that no two of the same gear will sound the same ... but in many cases, even where there is clear difference heard when trying to null them, that difference is often impossible to perceived ... but people will believe they do. Sure, some *vintage* gear may vary so much from aging components that you can hear differences readily, but you can't trust your brain to not just imagine differences in perception.
@@natdenchfield8061 Most people can hear the differences just by looking at the logo batch on the unit, if it says Neve it sounds great, if it is not it sounds bad......
No 2 analogue units from the same brand will sound exactly the same, let alone 2 units from different brands.. the Null test has always been a joke to me!
It’s not just about “sound”. If you see it as an investment you care about reliability, consistency, maintenance, depreciation, etc… how many 33609 have lasted for decades and how many Berhinger KT will be operative or will have a repair support? If it is just an outboard gear to use, yes, it is damn impressive, but if it is an investment, it is not a 33609 not even close. Anyway, I will probably get one cause I love diode bridge compressors and for 500€ here in Spain I can afford it and play with it in recordings and mixes.
@@Justanothermusicproducer we are talking here multiplier of price. Not just 100% for example. There is no comparison. If the difference in sound is negligeble or very slim, it is a no brainer.
What I found out for the last forty years. If you like a certain aspect about a peace of hardware - that certain sound which is maybe only 5 percent - don‘t buy stuff that is „in the same ballpark“ aka „it also eqs or compresses“. Get the real thing instead buying five pieces of hardware or software which are „almost there“. You won‘t regret.
hey thank you so much for doing this; it may not be obvious to everyone, but making videos that come off so well is both time consuming and difficult! The null test proves what you showed in the previous video, the two units are different, but the difference is small.
For your next couple of tests, you should see if two units of the Behringer will null out, then do the same with two units of the Neve. All electronic components have minute differences, which are compounded as more circuit complications are added, plus the variability in accuracy of pots, switches, etc. I would be very surprised if two supposedly identical units actually nulled out any better than the A vs B test you did in this video.
When I saw your previous video, what I've felt was the difference how the Behringer bites the transients. And this video proves it. But other than that, it sounds quite close. Thank you.
Been appreciating these videos. I've preordered one of these units from Sweetwater and it will be used on my mixes right away when it arrives. Very exciting.
Good content and appreciate your honest assessment (through all three videos). I for one don’t expect two analog devices to sound the same. I’m also glad you stand behind your comments. Too often people on RUclips feel like they cannot express a particular view because someone will get offended (particularly those that feel they need to justify why they are willing to spend so much money on gear). I’m now a subscriber.
@@Studio22mix Thats cool, can't wait! I'm in north Italy so it takes longer, happy i did the preorder because now it seems it will take a few months.. I'm waiting to see the Grampian reverb clone avilable since ferbruary and still says a few months.. Very curious when the 369, the 1273 and the 646 are available.. Enjoy it!!!
@@bigmagos The threshold pots are indeed a little tight to rotate, hope they will last but other than that it’s a perfect piece of gear. I think you’ll enjoy it a lot. Looks very nice too, just did my first mix with it, no complaints whatsoever. I’m still thinking about pre-ordering the 1273 but still didn’t make my mind up about that one. I think I will save up for a Gainlab Empress which is more high end 👌🏼
@@Studio22mix plugged it in yesterday evening, sounds really cool! threshold knobs are fu...ng hard.. For now i have a tegeler crreme before (wanted to put it after) so i can use the output knob to control the threshold and don't have to touch them on the 369.. it really scares me to break the pots! but yeah cool to have it here, sounds good and seems really quite!!!
Awesome. This is a great addition to the other vids. I suppose the remaining question about the cheaper version is long term stability. As the analog components drift, will they mimic the more expensive gear or will it be very different/worse/better? 🤷 Regardless, you've presented a compelling case for those of us that can't afford the "real thing."
The bottom line is the behringer does what it’s supposed to do and very well I was shocked at how close it sounds in comparison. I have heard so many clones not even come close. Something really good and true about the behringer you can’t deny and I was always that guy that made fun of behringer 😂. I would actually buy this piece of gear.
Well does the 2x Neve 33609 null? I do not think so! All analog harwares are different, because component tolerances. I have heard bad sounding Urei 1176 and also fantastic sounding Urei 1176. But great video! Keep on rockin! Greetings from Finland
I've had a Neve 33609JD for ten years or so, it's an incredible compressor, probably my favourite for making things sound expensive. The Behringer doesn't seem to quite pull that off in these tests, (at least as far as I can tell) but it does sound really good and without a doubt worth the $$$. Thank you for doing all these tests by the way, really good stuff.
The one issue with null test, is that you get the combined difference. So you get a bit of the difference from each unit. I wish there was a test to subtract the difference from each unit. That way we could easier tell if there what is different between the units, possibly trim it. But also the null test, can be up to twice the difference between one unit and the other, if both adds equally amount of difference.
Great series of videos. One thing null testings don't really work in hardware, even if you take the same model (of the same company), but units from different years (not the same batch), you will get differences, ALL the electronics (caps, resistors,...) have error, the more expensive, the more accurate, but since we have 100's of resistors in a unit, and the most expansive are 1% error (gold), it adds up. Also you don't mach HW by eyes, meaning you would get a closer null test by playing with the Neve pots. so they would match the Beringer (or vise-versa). Even so, it's very close.
6:14 It is not possible to say which is contributing to the various aspects of the residual signal after the null test unless you raise the level in the box slightly for one then the other. Doing that will reveal which one was leaving in the transients, etc.
The main thing i ‘thought’ i heard in your previous test was that the behringer was a little brighter, and the trebly hiss on the null test of the pink/white noise satisfies that impression to me. The other differences while the music is playing just sounds like they grab a bit diff than each other
People have really unrealistic expectations for behringer’s performance. Every time a clone is released, people are quick to point out how it doesn’t sound 100% the same. A compressor is a tool and as long as the person using it is able to get the desired results that’s all that matters. Most people aren’t gonna have the ear to hear the difference of what gear you’re using. Only musicians are snobby about gear. Most hit recorded were all made by broke musicians using 2nd hand gear.
I don't think it will matter with this test, but it's allways a good idea to add the same plugin used to correct one half of the null test to the other half, just inactive (set to 0db trim), just to accoount for any weirdness that might be a result of the plug in. It shouldn't matter with a linear trim plug, but it's always good practise, just too ruel it out, and stop comments like this :P.
Channel imbalance is the issue in the first half. One of the 2 devices is not properly balanced and the level output is causing the partial null. If you gain match these channels, the null should be fairly complete. The other issue seems to be the attack time. If you measured the pulses you'd have a sense of how different the attack times are. It seems fairly drastic (maybe 10mS) so one design using a different value to the other. Worth trying to determine the value and see if this is a design error they could revise, or if they just went with the new attack time based on preference.
well done, one detail, one can import the files to RX (or similar) and match the phase because a latency difference will "sound more than it is. it can explain why the noise sounds the same and the material sounds more different
A good suggestion. My input lag is calculated and the round trip latency should be accounted for. Both units are coming in and out of the same converter so it should be identical as far as I am concerned!
Cool test, maybe adjusting the pots, will increase the similarities in sound, pots have generally 10% of tolerance, so the sound can vary a lot. Also just to blow people mind, can you make a null test between 2 channels of the neve ? They will ear the same kind of difference in sound
Were talking about 1 device that is brand new and 1 that is what at least a decade old. Cant imagine anyone would expect a null It would be interesting to hear the different between individual kick and snare samples and what the compressors are do the same and differently to them.
I’d really like to hear a null test between two copies of the Neve J series and two of the Behringers, To gauge the extent of product variation from the same factories. Also between a Neve J series and earlier Revision A and B versions with the Carnhill transformers.
I was thinking about this last night - try nulling two mono signals through the same comp to see what happens - My ( admittedly 25 year old) dbx 160S doesnt null and that was damned expensive when it came out - actually cost about the same in 2000 as the Neve does today.
It's pretty close right? Crazy! I mean, sure there are differences but there always will be between two any hardware units but generally speaking the Behringer is in the right ballpark!
The small differences are what make the difference. If I want the 33609 sound, I want that exact sound. If I wanted "almost the same sound" I would buy the plugin for 50$.
even if they don’t sound the same an analog compressor will always sound/react differently than a plug in and is much more fun to play around… i love mine as i love my other analog compressors (tegeler creme, bluey, rnla…)…
Two analog devices, in particular buss comp/limiters, will never totally null. This is due to: 1. **Component Variations**: Even identical models have slight differences in their electronic components. 2. **Non-linear Characteristics**: Analog devices introduce harmonic distortions and other non-linearities that differ between units. 3. **Response Time Differences**: Attack and release times may vary, causing different signal processing. 4. **Calibration Variations**: Small differences in control settings (threshold, ratio, attack, release) affect behavior. These variations prevent perfect phase cancellation, leading to partial cancellations with residual differences.
thanks by the test! one thing I saw on the other video as well but didn´t comment: what about that switch for limit flipped differently on the behringer? doesn´t it make a difference?
The differences are audible to me no need for null. However maybe preceed this with each one nulling against itself first to see what would be the genal differences added by each unit individually. That way we can compare to see what each unit is contributing to the test. Good idea want see more.
They were never going to null perfectly, that’s just a fact! No 2 hardware pieces sound the same, even two $2500 Neve 33609 of the same revision and year won’t null 100%. Great video! I just hope people can understand basic principles. The 369KT has custom MIDAS transformers while the 33609 supposedly has the Mariner transformers on it so! For $500 if it gets me closer to the real thing is no brainer! Hell, if it kicks butt thats enough to make it a great gear.
@@OliverShillito yeah it’s interesting for sure! Enjoyed the video nonetheless and I think it looks like the Berhinger is a good little compressor for the money!
I don't see the point due to the non linear responses of hardware. interesting none the less I guess. I think we would be more interested in your opinion now you have had them for a few days. Do blind tests and post them on slutz is really the best way. ps I really dig your intro track, well mixed
Thank you. Interesting indeed. Had a few people ask for them and so I thought I may as well deliver. For what it’s worth. Now I’ve had them for a few days. I do hear differences between them for sure but I still stand by my original view that in a mix, you’d likely never know. If you can afford the neve and want the extra X percent it offers then great but the Behringer is no slouch!
What about doing EXACTLY this: BUT EXACTLY!!!! Send a mono song to your sound card and to your NEVE comp, record on 2 mono tracks and flip the phase on one track. THEN come here and make dumb comments. BUT DO THIS TEST !!!!!!!
Well before i soo the comperrisin test didin't intrest it but null test take my attention, this test show the diffirents about to purcaising good (quality) cabels vs your own soldered balanced cabels quality whys is minnimum.
Huh, cool, first time here. I have 2 or 3 pieces of gear by Behringer, and as I always say, they all do their job pretty damn well! We are programmed to see "cheap" equipment as "bad". It's just a fact of our capitalist, or materialistic societies (maybe). But, what about an SM57? :D 99 bucks for THE most used mic in the history of popular music! Anyways, I even have one of those 5 channel Behringer mixers from the...90's? (Yeah I'm that old lol) It's still working, and it's got phantom and an analog compressor and 3 band eq for the main XLR channel, oh and USB lol And that thing used to gig around A LOT. The pots are perfect apart from dirty, sounds as nice as it did the first day whenever I used it for anything. The compressor pedal for guitar, same thing. So... HUGE bang for the buck as they say. Nice video, well done bro.
Hi and thanks for sharing your thoughts. What I hear in the null test is much more transient material than the body. This means that the difference between the two audio material is in the transient, thus where the compressor works. Mathematically the difference has a second order of values compared to the whole volume (110- 100 = 10 but 10% is a great difference). In fact white noise null test has less volume than the song because there is less transient there. While the bigger volume in the song is in the drum transients mainly. I do not know what this means qualitatively, but the two compressor are very different from this test.
So…this means these two units do not compress similarly at all. When you have music, the null leaves the top end, but more importantly all the transients. The compression character is completely different. This doesn’t show with pink or white noise because there’s no transients. EQ wise, yes close but there’s less bass and more top end with the behringer. If you’re buying this as a compressor…which is what this is, it’s not compressing the same
Keep in mind that The dials aren't likely to be tuned very closely.... Even on a lot of analog units of the same variety... Especially older ones before the tolerance has got tighter, You would have to have very different settings on different units to dial in basically the same settings... I still would be some real variance between units
@@ramspencer5492 He dialed them in as close as possible. Two calibrated analog units of the same model would null more than this test. I’m not saying the behringer sounds bad, I’m saying it doesn’t compress the same. That’s what this null test shows.
I imagine you would probably get similar results with two Neves or two Behringers… At £500 who the hell can complain, jeez, make music not comments on the internet.
One man’s insignificant difference is another man’s significant difference. This video proves they sound different. How much? Well that’s up to you, what you value in sound, and quite frankly how good your ears are. That said the behringer sounds pretty decent. They’re so cheap I may buy one just because I want to shoot them out versus the best 33609 plugins.
An analog null test cannot work on analoge devices. With just one winding or 1 ohm more in a transfomer, anything would be differen. That only works on digital. With analog even 2 factory matched devices will be different.
It is the most incorrect method to judge especially analog hardware, in fact even the same machines of the same brand and of the same production series do not cancel each other out! 🤣 So as a test it has ABSOLUTELY NO value 😉
This is a good video those that work on and actually have expensive gear know why… I hate the other brand with a passion and not because I work on and have Neve. I hate the other band with no gear at all. I’ve never heard 2 compressors sound so close as show on the previous video. This link is to the warm audio vs Neve also as close some spots as close ruclips.net/video/aD9D-Wcw2zc/видео.htmlsi=z2_T3CqRmD8d0AOG Evidently clone this Neve compressor isn’t as hard as other gear
Not entirely. The noise test proves that the frequency response is almost identical. The music comparison proves that both do process transients a little bit differently.
Great videos, I'm sure if you did the same with two Neves you would get a similar result, this being analogue gear. I love Neve gear, mixed my last album on a Neve, but can't really afford to buy anything, so the Behringer has given me, and many like me an opportunity to get something close at a price I can afford. Also checking out the 1073 clone they've just released and this also looks to be similarly very impressive! If I had the money, I'd be Neve, they are just great units and have stood the test of time, but for now, the Behringer products definitely meet a need.
This is a great chance for it to be clear to many producing music. This test in itself is not what you need to focus on but the pure ignorance of those buying into the concepts. Some in the comments are stating this shows the 2 are not the same. Well no shit! The best a new producer should take from this is to not listen to others unless they know them well enough to be able to trust what they tell you. People don’t use these units because they sound exactly the same, they use them because they need the tool to work. It’s a bonus if it does something unique.
The dials are not going to dial in the same settings... You can just point them in the same spot and expect the same results... Yes they don't have the exact same components... They don't sound exactly the same.... But they are on point. I won't be shocked at all to find that much variance in two hardware units... Especially of older gear where it's not quite so machine automated
Great video, thank you! Take two Neves and you probably get the same result, its analog gear, no two will sound exactly the same.
Logically, sure you could say that no two of the same gear will sound the same ... but in many cases, even where there is clear difference heard when trying to null them, that difference is often impossible to perceived ... but people will believe they do.
Sure, some *vintage* gear may vary so much from aging components that you can hear differences readily, but you can't trust your brain to not just imagine differences in perception.
@@natdenchfield8061 Most people can hear the differences just by looking at the logo batch on the unit, if it says Neve it sounds great, if it is not it sounds bad......
why would anyone think two analogue devices would null 😂😂😂
Null is good to examine the spectral differences 👂🦻
Especially compression.
👍👍😂😂
No 2 analogue units from the same brand will sound exactly the same, let alone 2 units from different brands.. the Null test has always been a joke to me!
@@theCarouselPainter That's why you have to pay extra $ for a paired devices... 🙃
A new 33609 in the USA is $3995 and the behringer is $599. I definitely do not hear a $2700+ difference.
Well China appreciates that you cannot hear any difference.
@@nicefish10 Good for them, competition is good.
It’s not just about “sound”. If you see it as an investment you care about reliability, consistency, maintenance, depreciation, etc… how many 33609 have lasted for decades and how many Berhinger KT will be operative or will have a repair support? If it is just an outboard gear to use, yes, it is damn impressive, but if it is an investment, it is not a 33609 not even close. Anyway, I will probably get one cause I love diode bridge compressors and for 500€ here in Spain I can afford it and play with it in recordings and mixes.
@@Justanothermusicproducer we are talking here multiplier of price. Not just 100% for example. There is no comparison. If the difference in sound is negligeble or very slim, it is a no brainer.
What I found out for the last forty years. If you like a certain aspect about a peace of hardware - that certain sound which is maybe only 5 percent - don‘t buy stuff that is „in the same ballpark“ aka „it also eqs or compresses“. Get the real thing instead buying five pieces of hardware or software which are „almost there“. You won‘t regret.
hey thank you so much for doing this; it may not be obvious to everyone, but making videos that come off so well is both time consuming and difficult! The null test proves what you showed in the previous video, the two units are different, but the difference is small.
Thank you, appreciate the kind words!
For your next couple of tests, you should see if two units of the Behringer will null out, then do the same with two units of the Neve. All electronic components have minute differences, which are compounded as more circuit complications are added, plus the variability in accuracy of pots, switches, etc. I would be very surprised if two supposedly identical units actually nulled out any better than the A vs B test you did in this video.
I'd be perfectly happy using any one of these hardware units. They sound so close that the difference is negligible in a full mix.
When I saw your previous video, what I've felt was the difference how the Behringer bites the transients. And this video proves it. But other than that, it sounds quite close. Thank you.
Thanks for doing that. As you said at least now we know what the differences are. Good stuff!
Been appreciating these videos. I've preordered one of these units from Sweetwater and it will be used on my mixes right away when it arrives. Very exciting.
Good content and appreciate your honest assessment (through all three videos). I for one don’t expect two analog devices to sound the same. I’m also glad you stand behind your comments. Too often people on RUclips feel like they cannot express a particular view because someone will get offended (particularly those that feel they need to justify why they are willing to spend so much money on gear). I’m now a subscriber.
🙏
Thank you so much for this great video. The Null test was fantastic.
Question without reading comments. What if you did a null test with two 33609's.
😂👌👌👏👏👏
End of the week I will have one,
so I will hear it for myself 😊
Thanks for the video 🤟🏼
same here, shipped out today!! :)
@@bigmagos Got mine connected and tested out today, it sounds great 👍🏼 Tested it on the drumbus and the mixbus,
I like it very much on both 😊
@@Studio22mix Thats cool, can't wait! I'm in north Italy so it takes longer, happy i did the preorder because now it seems it will take a few months.. I'm waiting to see the Grampian reverb clone avilable since ferbruary and still says a few months.. Very curious when the 369, the 1273 and the 646 are available.. Enjoy it!!!
@@bigmagos The threshold pots are indeed a little tight to rotate, hope they will last but other than that it’s a perfect piece of gear. I think you’ll enjoy it a lot. Looks very nice too, just did my first mix with it, no complaints whatsoever. I’m still thinking about pre-ordering the 1273 but still didn’t make my mind up about that one. I think I will save up for a Gainlab Empress which is more high end 👌🏼
@@Studio22mix plugged it in yesterday evening, sounds really cool! threshold knobs are fu...ng hard.. For now i have a tegeler crreme before (wanted to put it after) so i can use the output knob to control the threshold and don't have to touch them on the 369.. it really scares me to break the pots! but yeah cool to have it here, sounds good and seems really quite!!!
Awesome. This is a great addition to the other vids. I suppose the remaining question about the cheaper version is long term stability. As the analog components drift, will they mimic the more expensive gear or will it be very different/worse/better? 🤷 Regardless, you've presented a compelling case for those of us that can't afford the "real thing."
The bottom line is the behringer does what it’s supposed to do and very well I was shocked at how close it sounds in comparison. I have heard so many clones not even come close. Something really good and true about the behringer you can’t deny and I was always that guy that made fun of behringer 😂. I would actually buy this piece of gear.
Well does the 2x Neve 33609 null? I do not think so! All analog harwares are different, because component tolerances. I have heard bad sounding Urei 1176 and also fantastic sounding Urei 1176. But great video! Keep on rockin! Greetings from Finland
thanks for the video!
I've had a Neve 33609JD for ten years or so, it's an incredible compressor, probably my favourite for making things sound expensive. The Behringer doesn't seem to quite pull that off in these tests, (at least as far as I can tell) but it does sound really good and without a doubt worth the $$$. Thank you for doing all these tests by the way, really good stuff.
Thanks for watching!
The one issue with null test, is that you get the combined difference. So you get a bit of the difference from each unit. I wish there was a test to subtract the difference from each unit. That way we could easier tell if there what is different between the units, possibly trim it. But also the null test, can be up to twice the difference between one unit and the other, if both adds equally amount of difference.
Great series of videos. One thing null testings don't really work in hardware, even if you take the same model (of the same company), but units from different years (not the same batch), you will get differences, ALL the electronics (caps, resistors,...) have error, the more expensive, the more accurate, but since we have 100's of resistors in a unit, and the most expansive are 1% error (gold), it adds up. Also you don't mach HW by eyes, meaning you would get a closer null test by playing with the Neve pots. so they would match the Beringer (or vise-versa). Even so, it's very close.
6:14 It is not possible to say which is contributing to the various aspects of the residual signal after the null test unless you raise the level in the box slightly for one then the other. Doing that will reveal which one was leaving in the transients, etc.
if they are that close.
then i will go with Behringer and save some money
They aren’t,. Transients are way better on the neve, which this video proves. If you want mushy drums go for the behringer
The main thing i ‘thought’ i heard in your previous test was that the behringer was a little brighter, and the trebly hiss on the null test of the pink/white noise satisfies that impression to me. The other differences while the music is playing just sounds like they grab a bit diff than each other
People have really unrealistic expectations for behringer’s performance. Every time a clone is released, people are quick to point out how it doesn’t sound 100% the same. A compressor is a tool and as long as the person using it is able to get the desired results that’s all that matters. Most people aren’t gonna have the ear to hear the difference of what gear you’re using. Only musicians are snobby about gear. Most hit recorded were all made by broke musicians using 2nd hand gear.
I don't think it will matter with this test, but it's allways a good idea to add the same plugin used to correct one half of the null test to the other half, just inactive (set to 0db trim), just to accoount for any weirdness that might be a result of the plug in. It shouldn't matter with a linear trim plug, but it's always good practise, just too ruel it out, and stop comments like this :P.
Fair!
seems like you’d wanna use mono signals. and could null first upon itself left ch and right ch, see how those check out
Could you compare to the ART Optical compressor everyone one was loving years ago . I know it’s not like for like but maybe for better‽
Now someone should come up with a "replace-the-knobs kit" and it would be perfect! 😀
Great video! Will you also be getting/testing one of their new EQs they just announced?
I’m definitely considering it!
Channel imbalance is the issue in the first half. One of the 2 devices is not properly balanced and the level output is causing the partial null. If you gain match these channels, the null should be fairly complete.
The other issue seems to be the attack time. If you measured the pulses you'd have a sense of how different the attack times are. It seems fairly drastic (maybe 10mS) so one design using a different value to the other. Worth trying to determine the value and see if this is a design error they could revise, or if they just went with the new attack time based on preference.
well done, one detail, one can import the files to RX (or similar) and match the phase because a latency difference will "sound
more than it is. it can explain why the noise sounds the same and the material sounds more different
A good suggestion. My input lag is calculated and the round trip latency should be accounted for. Both units are coming in and out of the same converter so it should be identical as far as I am concerned!
Cool test, maybe adjusting the pots, will increase the similarities in sound, pots have generally 10% of tolerance, so the sound can vary a lot.
Also just to blow people mind, can you make a null test between 2 channels of the neve ? They will ear the same kind of difference in sound
Were talking about 1 device that is brand new and 1 that is what at least a decade old. Cant imagine anyone would expect a null It would be interesting to hear the different between individual kick and snare samples and what the compressors are do the same and differently to them.
I’d really like to hear a null test between two copies of the Neve J series and two of the Behringers, To gauge the extent of product variation from the same factories.
Also between a Neve J series and earlier Revision A and B versions with the Carnhill transformers.
I was thinking about this last night - try nulling two mono signals through the same comp to see what happens - My ( admittedly 25 year old) dbx 160S doesnt null and that was damned expensive when it came out - actually cost about the same in 2000 as the Neve does today.
Cheers Oliver! Great video
My pleasure!
Just need to adjust LR balance, one has the left side louder than the other and it will almsot null completely
Thanks for comparing!
Thanks for watching!
The fact two hardware compressors null out this much is f*¡g insane! I have a real itch to get this one!!!
It's pretty close right? Crazy! I mean, sure there are differences but there always will be between two any hardware units but generally speaking the Behringer is in the right ballpark!
The small differences are what make the difference. If I want the 33609 sound, I want that exact sound. If I wanted "almost the same sound" I would buy the plugin for 50$.
even if they don’t sound the same an analog compressor will always sound/react differently than a plug in and is much more fun to play around… i love mine as i love my other analog compressors (tegeler creme, bluey, rnla…)…
I'd be interested to see this test done in a handful or two of years after both units have aged considerably from now.
do non linear units null against themselves?
Two analog devices, in particular buss comp/limiters, will never totally null.
This is due to:
1. **Component Variations**: Even identical models have slight differences in their electronic components.
2. **Non-linear Characteristics**: Analog devices introduce harmonic distortions and other non-linearities that differ between units.
3. **Response Time Differences**: Attack and release times may vary, causing different signal processing.
4. **Calibration Variations**: Small differences in control settings (threshold, ratio, attack, release) affect behavior.
These variations prevent perfect phase cancellation, leading to partial cancellations with residual differences.
thanks by the test! one thing I saw on the other video as well but didn´t comment: what about that switch for limit flipped differently on the behringer? doesn´t it make a difference?
The differences are audible to me no need for null. However maybe preceed this with each one nulling against itself first to see what would be the genal differences added by each unit individually. That way we can compare to see what each unit is contributing to the test. Good idea want see more.
They were never going to null perfectly, that’s just a fact! No 2 hardware pieces sound the same, even two $2500 Neve 33609 of the same revision and year won’t null 100%.
Great video! I just hope people can understand basic principles. The 369KT has custom MIDAS transformers while the 33609 supposedly has the Mariner transformers on it so!
For $500 if it gets me closer to the real thing is no brainer! Hell, if it kicks butt thats enough to make it a great gear.
Please Oliver do this same video but add Arturia's Comp Diode 609 plugin to the null test!!!
If you can pop the covers and give us a peek at their board layouts, and component brands.
I don't think that the Berhinger should've been set to "fast attack." I say this because there's no such setting on the Neve from that era.
put an frequency analyser on the stereo buss and have a look before and after
I think you would probably see just as much difference between two 33609s as you do between these two units
I would agree but I’ve had so many comments asking for null tests it would be a shame not to!
@@OliverShillito yeah it’s interesting for sure! Enjoyed the video nonetheless and I think it looks like the Berhinger is a good little compressor for the money!
I don't see the point due to the non linear responses of hardware. interesting none the less I guess. I think we would be more interested in your opinion now you have had them for a few days. Do blind tests and post them on slutz is really the best way. ps I really dig your intro track, well mixed
Thank you. Interesting indeed. Had a few people ask for them and so I thought I may as well deliver. For what it’s worth. Now I’ve had them for a few days. I do hear differences between them for sure but I still stand by my original view that in a mix, you’d likely never know. If you can afford the neve and want the extra X percent it offers then great but the Behringer is no slouch!
0:12 Oh that's why this popped up in my feed then hehe XD
What about doing EXACTLY this: BUT EXACTLY!!!! Send a mono song to your sound card and to your NEVE comp, record on 2 mono tracks and flip the phase on one track. THEN come here and make dumb comments. BUT DO THIS TEST
!!!!!!!
You can't get the null result even for 2 same brand and model analog units...
Well before i soo the comperrisin test didin't intrest it but null test take my attention, this test show the diffirents about to purcaising good (quality) cabels vs your own soldered balanced cabels quality whys is minnimum.
Huh, cool, first time here. I have 2 or 3 pieces of gear by Behringer, and as I always say, they all do their job pretty damn well! We are programmed to see "cheap" equipment as "bad". It's just a fact of our capitalist, or materialistic societies (maybe). But, what about an SM57? :D 99 bucks for THE most used mic in the history of popular music!
Anyways, I even have one of those 5 channel Behringer mixers from the...90's? (Yeah I'm that old lol) It's still working, and it's got phantom and an analog compressor and 3 band eq for the main XLR channel, oh and USB lol And that thing used to gig around A LOT. The pots are perfect apart from dirty, sounds as nice as it did the first day whenever I used it for anything. The compressor pedal for guitar, same thing. So...
HUGE bang for the buck as they say.
Nice video, well done bro.
Hi and thanks for sharing your thoughts. What I hear in the null test is much more transient material than the body. This means that the difference between the two audio material is in the transient, thus where the compressor works. Mathematically the difference has a second order of values compared to the whole volume (110- 100 = 10 but 10% is a great difference). In fact white noise null test has less volume than the song because there is less transient there. While the bigger volume in the song is in the drum transients mainly. I do not know what this means qualitatively, but the two compressor are very different from this test.
Even the same unit, recorded back to back - wont null with itself
not a fan of behringer , just wanted to say I love your drums 🔥🔥🔥
Even the current draw will be slightly different
So…this means these two units do not compress similarly at all. When you have music, the null leaves the top end, but more importantly all the transients. The compression character is completely different. This doesn’t show with pink or white noise because there’s no transients. EQ wise, yes close but there’s less bass and more top end with the behringer. If you’re buying this as a compressor…which is what this is, it’s not compressing the same
Keep in mind that The dials aren't likely to be tuned very closely.... Even on a lot of analog units of the same variety... Especially older ones before the tolerance has got tighter, You would have to have very different settings on different units to dial in basically the same settings... I still would be some real variance between units
You can just turn the knobs until it sounds good
@@ramspencer5492 He dialed them in as close as possible. Two calibrated analog units of the same model would null more than this test. I’m not saying the behringer sounds bad, I’m saying it doesn’t compress the same. That’s what this null test shows.
one is definitely faster than the other... it's close thou.
I imagine you would probably get similar results with two Neves or two Behringers…
At £500 who the hell can complain, jeez, make music not comments on the internet.
One man’s insignificant difference is another man’s significant difference. This video proves they sound different. How much? Well that’s up to you, what you value in sound, and quite frankly how good your ears are. That said the behringer sounds pretty decent. They’re so cheap I may buy one just because I want to shoot them out versus the best 33609 plugins.
An analog null test cannot work on analoge devices. With just one winding or 1 ohm more in a transfomer, anything would be differen. That only works on digital. With analog even 2 factory matched devices will be different.
6:09 Bro, I swear I was gonna yawn...and then....wtf? :O
the B eats the transients , such a shame
Damn ... they copy almost everything inside ahahahah
Not a true diode type compressor as the Neve.
I am 16 seconds on the video and I will tell you that there will not null, not 2 of the same would null
I think the behringer just lets out farts
This is dumb, they are analog gear, they are never going to null.
It is the most incorrect method to judge especially analog hardware, in fact even the same machines of the same brand and of the same production series do not cancel each other out! 🤣 So as a test it has ABSOLUTELY NO value 😉
This is a good video those that work on and actually have expensive gear know why…
I hate the other brand with a passion and not because I work on and have Neve. I hate the other band with no gear at all.
I’ve never heard 2 compressors sound so close as show on the previous video.
This link is to the warm audio vs Neve also as close some spots as close
ruclips.net/video/aD9D-Wcw2zc/видео.htmlsi=z2_T3CqRmD8d0AOG
Evidently clone this Neve compressor isn’t as hard as other
gear
One of the most pointless tests lol
Not entirely. The noise test proves that the frequency response is almost identical. The music comparison proves that both do process transients a little bit differently.
Great videos, I'm sure if you did the same with two Neves you would get a similar result, this being analogue gear. I love Neve gear, mixed my last album on a Neve, but can't really afford to buy anything, so the Behringer has given me, and many like me an opportunity to get something close at a price I can afford. Also checking out the 1073 clone they've just released and this also looks to be similarly very impressive! If I had the money, I'd be Neve, they are just great units and have stood the test of time, but for now, the Behringer products definitely meet a need.
The difference with the null test was dominant on the left channel. could this be a tiny level difference per channel?
This is a great chance for it to be clear to many producing music. This test in itself is not what you need to focus on but the pure ignorance of those buying into the concepts. Some in the comments are stating this shows the 2 are not the same. Well no shit! The best a new producer should take from this is to not listen to others unless they know them well enough to be able to trust what they tell you. People don’t use these units because they sound exactly the same, they use them because they need the tool to work. It’s a bonus if it does something unique.
The dials are not going to dial in the same settings... You can just point them in the same spot and expect the same results... Yes they don't have the exact same components... They don't sound exactly the same.... But they are on point. I won't be shocked at all to find that much variance in two hardware units... Especially of older gear where it's not quite so machine automated
with all due respect, this test is proof that you have no knowledge of how these devices are built
Perfect timing ⏱️:)
The transients on the drums null track are interesting to see the differences on attack between the units.