"oh on, one of our nuke that capable to obliterate a entire army got stolen" "anyway, let's gather the majority of our military forces into one place and broadcast it to the world for our reputation"
Once you realize how much of a Hurculean effort it was to get the entire earth sphere space force into the same place for a naval review, what resulted can be a little more understood, or at the very least what the brass were thinking... It's no different than when it was done in war time during the OYW, once a force THAT big has a plan and commits to moving or gathering somewhere, its not that easy to disperse into smaller forces and move anywhere. They obviously weren't expecting the threat and they didn't think the ENTIRE FLEET would be threatened by a single MS, nukes or not. The end result was a mix of literally not being ABLE to do anything else once the force committed to move as one/ ignorance of the situational threat/ and their pure hubris- "one MS can't destroy the entire fleet!"(remember the Death Star in Star Wars? its kind of like that) A naval review of basically the entire fleet is going to require some intense planning far ahead of the event if it is to be executed successfully. Imagine telling an ENTIRE EARTH FLEET gathered in one place reports came in that Zeon has a single MS with a single high yield nuke, and it is out in space, somewhere, looking for some payback. What would the Admirals do? Would they IMMEDIATELY start dispersing the fleet in every direction in a panic? No, but that is really the only thing they could have done to try and survive what was coming. In reality you would most likely proceed AS PLANNED but you'd have the fleet on high alert. You'd probably think that even if this MS has a nuke, YOU are the one with the MASSIVE advantage and would WELCOME ANY mobile suit to take on the entire fleet. When you think it out, its not hard to reason why things happened the way they did, and what at first looks like a complete sucker move on the part of the Federation isn't so cut and dry after all.
This is actually one of the worst violations of the laws of physics in Gundam. There's no way that a single nuclear bomb could've done that much damage, in space - nukes in vacuum only release like 10% as much energy as they do in atmosphere. It's so common in sci-fi and media to see writers underestimate the power of a nuke, that a lot of people don't notice when writers egregiously *overestimate* the power of a nuke, as Stardust Memory did.
Exactly. They had next to no resources and very few experienced politicians, commanders, or civilian leaders. They'd have to put down insurgents in space and on Earth likely organized by very motivated One Year War vets and well-connected business and political leaders. It'd have been a mess. Plus, the Federation has huge resource reserves they could activate compared to relatively little reserves for Axis Neo-Zeon.
Char could do what he did canonically just fighting a 2 front war or he becomes Quatro again just with his own Neo Zeon and negotiating something to the Feds@@SudrianTales
The Earth Federation has to be the all time champion of pyrrhic victories in all of military sci-fi. And sure enough, as the chronologically latest works set in the Universal Century show, the strain of every conflict ending with a pyrrhic victory is eventually too much for the Federation to bear, as they lose all credibility throughout the earth sphere and basically collapse despite having no credible alternative or successor, leaving humanity in a new dark age.
Definitely. Even worse, those pyrrhic victories continuously convinced spaceanoids to keep fighting. Leading to the feds getting ground down by decades of conflicts playing whack a mole across known space.
Either that or the patron saint of the last minute comebacks. Like seriously the federation is clearly doomed 5 different times and the keep wining last second through a mixture of mass production and kids in prototype robots again and again
@@BioGoji-zm5phnah the Fed already in bad condition during Victory. Post Victory, their whole system just collapse and they just into chaos completely. Then dissolved with new one take over
@@unaiestanconapelaez2526 It's fun to watch the 'good guy faction' struggle to win when you're an audience member, but if you were actually living in that world, having your government be brought to the very brink of total defeat four times in twenty years would actually suck ass. The things that make for a good mecha space opera story wouldn't be fun at all if you had to live through them. Even if we use real world countries as an analogy, nobody wants to win a war because your side had more capability to absorb horrendous losses.
100% I imagine Earth Federation reservist units reactivating mothballed OYW era RGM-79 GMs and RGM-79C GM Kais, just what ever was in storage or in boneyards being desperately reissued to hastily assembled Federation units given the unenviable task of holding the line against Neo Zeon with obsolete kit
By that point, most OYW GM's had already been upgraded to GM II's, with a small number of GM Quell's, GM Customs, and GM Commander Space Types not having undergone the upgrades. All the various GM versions had largely been consolidated under the GM II standards, and it was noted that new-build GM II's, rather than GM's upgraded to GM II status, were of higher quality and performance levels, mostly due to the standardization involved, whereas OYW GM's were, until the GM Type C, mostly slapped together haphazardly and different factories had different standards for production that resulted in wildly different stats depending on the individual unit, much like WW2 SMG's and tanks assembled under emergency circumstances vs the same units made when more resources, manpower, and time was available to make them to higher standards.
Let's take the T-34 tank as an example: The WW2 tank, built under WW2 standards, often had substandard armor that was easily penetrated compared to the exact same tank built after WW2, or during WW2 when the USSR was no longer on the offensive. Parts used by earlier production tanks weren't necessarily compatible with later production tanks as a result of "slap anything that works into the unit and push it onto the frontline as quickly as possible" vs "let's actually meet the intended design goals instead of thinking of them as something that would be nice to achieve under perfect circumstances."
I mean that and Char was also out there, waiting for his chance to take control of Neo Zeon. It's likely he would have done a similar play Haman did way back in Zeta; wait until one of the forces is defeated and attack when least expected.
I have also a question. It was revealed in UC Engage, Char was already building his Newborn Neo Zeon while the First Neo Zeon War still occured, specifically after the Dublin Colony Drop, and a cutscene shows that Char already has a disposal of Geara Dogas in a hanger in some place (I assume it's the Colony Sweetwater), meaning Char had the capabilities, resorces and even allies to build and develop his own army, and he only returned from hiding after Haman and Glemy were killed so he can take advantage of the power vacuums from their absence, and create his own Neo Zeon group. What would happen if Char revealed himself and Newborn Neo Zeon during the First Neo Zeon War? How will things turn out?
10:00 me and my friends in discord were talking about things like the impact of the lapas box being kept hidden and a buddy brought up that gato technically got his victory against the earth federation by being the nuclear knife that stabbed the EF in the heart that just kept bleeding more and more until the late uc where it collapsed as a major power
The wars all seemed to be defined as Federation complacency vs the guarantee of Zeon infighting with Anaheim profiteering. Take out any one of those and things would be up in the air, with the Federation having a resource and manpower edge, if not always the technical advantage.
Didnt they basically win? The earth federation was ready to capitulate.. especially after the colony drop. If not for Glemy Haman would have wiped the floor with the war tired Federation. I mean they lost a hefty chunk of their military power in the form of the Titans and had little to nothing to replace them with. Meanwhile Hamans Neo zeon had all the state of the art weaponry and highly motivated soldiers.
Not at all. Remember their will to fight was contingent on fighting for the zabi heir mineva and she went mia after the first neo Zeon war. Plus the federation didn’t get involved until zeon started their in fighting
@@peacecraft2149 Well yeah, if it wasn't for the civil I'm pretty sure no one would've figured out Minvea was a fake + half of them were insanely devoted to Haman. Pretty sure Glemy didn't even know she was a fake. Also the Federation didn't get involved until the end of the fighting bc the Federation military virtually didn't exsit, didn't the capital fall in a few days of the earth invasion? Not to mention the force that mopped up Neo-Zeon were AEUG leftover who integrated back into the EFF. EFF high command/politicians was either wiped out from early days of the war/civil war or gave up.
@@peacecraft2149 Haman karn was the first neo zeon war though. She had mineva under her control, heck Char tried to assasinate mineva, hence why Haman came after him during the Gryps War and sorta kinda but not really sided with Sirrocco
Yes, Haman won the war, but then the series had to change for ratings sake, so Haman went Gihren 2.0 and dropped the colony to “strike fear”, for no reason basically. All it did was invigorate the Earth Sphere and give Glemy room to be the worst piece of shit ever.
@@BeyondDaX Why would it have? Kamille surviving the final battle wouldn't have just caused Haman Khan and her fleet to disappear or anything, nor would it change the fact that the AEUG was almost wiped out in the disastrous Gryps battle.
Honestly its a miracle that the Federation was still even a fighting chance by this period, honestly it reminds me of the situation that was the Sengoku Jidai then you mix in the clusterfuck that was the Boshin War, would be a interesting scenario to see that what if the fracturing of the Federation was even more severe that several more factions other than the AEUG and Titans with conflicting ideals pop up. I can totally see the Newtype Labs becoming their own faction instead of supporting Titan Remnants. Yes I am in a Total War Shogun 2 mode, the Federation's Sengoku Jidai.
I can’t deny the first Neo Zeon war was their best chance at winning. But Zeon has a unique talent for managing to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory. Once Haman’s colony drop succeeded while describing victory as ‘impossible’ would be a bit much, it would become much harder. Even Glemy was hardened to fight Zeon by that. And while some of the top brass saw the colony drop and just went ‘welp’ the last time this happened they made the titans so the federation would probably start putting up one hell of a fight. Admittedly I’m not sure if it would be enough to win, but Zeon would come away with less than ideal peace terms.
@@GrandAdmiralBatuKhan considering this conversation is about haman winning the first neo zeon war, those are irrelevant. You can very well beat the EFF with haman in GG. Menace of Axis V has a whole thing about char's rebellion for that specific scenario.
You know, i wonder what would have happened if Operation stardust/gundam development project wasn't covered up and it was revealed to everyone during Kou's hearing on who caused it. This includes Jamitov, Anaheim electronics board of directors, and the people in the federation's government. Would this have possibly saved albion's captain from firing squad? Would Zeon remnants get angry at being used and find another target for their anger? Would even Anaheim get Boycotted/halt of service/sued after said reveal? In my mind/head-canon, i would figure that instead of the titans getting formed, it would be something like a third party group made up of members between the Republic of Zeon and the Federation(sort of like bargest from the katana manga, but alot bigger). Mind giving me your thoughts on this Kakarot197 for the next question of the week?
@@rafaelferreirasantos7819 more like a ngo that investigates matters involving groups that can cause issues(terrorism included) and then reports it to those who will handle said situation. I say report as after the debacle of operation stardus, i would think they would be heavier limits on peoples access to ms.
@@TheWarmachine375 celestial being without terrorism, no mobile suits/armor, and they report the groups that will cause the problem to the authorities that will get that shite handled quick as they advised. Now that i think about it, they are kinda like the forecasters(like sumeragi) but the investigative kind.
Winning the war and keeping the whole thing together after words are two completely different things. While I fully agree that Neo Zeon had a decent chance at winning the war if the civil war had not kicked off I highly doubt they would have had the ability or political acumen to hold their new empire together for long before factions started stabbing each other in the back. I say this as a die hard Zeon fangirl too, I am a realist sort as well and frankly given the state of leadership of Neo Zeon at that time they had no real leaders with a true claim to either the Zabi thrown or Deikun's legacy. If Char had joined Haman and took on his birth name that alone could have solidified Zeon. It could also have brought a few neutral colonies on board too given the respect Deikun had across the colonies. However as things were given the times I doubt Zeon could have held anything together for long before infighting began. Just my opinion naturally but I'd welcome a chance for Zeon to rise again but more in line with how Zeon Deikun wanted and not the neo-fascist mutation of the Zabi's or revenge fueled Neo Zeon movements that really had no hope of ever doing more than terrorist attacks.
I have not watched ZZ recently, but didn’t Haman/Neo Zeon do well because they blitzed the federation after the Aeug and Titans exhausted themselves at Gryps and brought the war/destruction to earth really damn quickly. The Federation was going to capitulate after the colony drop because the upper brass were cowards but then went all in against Zeon after the Glemy’s rebellion. I thought Haman wanted a quick treaty in Neo Zeon’s favor because she was concerned the Federation could out manpower and out material Neo Zeon fairly quickly if they actually gave a damn.
Kind of like how Char did well in the second Neo Zeon war. Neo Zeon did well because they were only fighting against Londo Bell. If the Federation actually gave a shit , they would have put down Char’s rebellion fairly quickly.
More like char did his homework and make sure the Feddie "doesn't give a damn". Yes, he did something behind the stage to stall HQ Feddie's decision. But Londobell just seen how this will play if they wait for HQ, iirc char had some if not most of the Feddie's Bigwig "naughty list" book and used it as leverage
Haman essentially got character assassinated by Tomino so that the series’ rating would improve, ushering in the tried and true villain staples of “colony drop, big speech, civilian targets”, and Glemy got Scirocco’d by being woman manipulator, but even worse as “child groomer”. ZZ totally mishandles Haman’s character (among many others) and it’s a disgrace. She deserved a better legacy and also a better fate.
Zeon: *commits atrocities that make them feared around the Earth Sphere* Federation: "Those monsters! We'll defeat then, and then we'll make a task force to hunt them down!" Teetans: *makes mobile suits that look like Zeon suits.* Federation: "Yes! We'll bankroll you!" Teetans: *commits atrocities* Federation: "Maybe we'll not use that equipment." AEUG: *repainting captured machines knowing that they're still perfectly servicable.*
I once had this kind of convo with a friend and it leads to this: it would be a weird situation for Shin since his main reason on joining the army is to show to ORB that they're a big hypocrite and can't do shit, he is antagonizing Freedom not because of Freedom killed his family, but Freedom was the image of ORB's strength, so if he can shot down Freedom he can prove that ORB is weak. But if Kira dies by the end of SEED, Shin might not have any reason to join ZAFT and might just go the politic way to bash ORB in the face as a politician(or an apprentice of one which might be durandal)
@@Madao_Aniki Not really. The actual reason Shinn antagonize ORB is because their nation ideal: be a neutral nation, and yet start conflict with the Alliance in battle of ORB event Which cause him to lose his family, as well as why he antagonize ORB and Freedom. This also why Shinn antagonize Cagalli and her ideal in early SD. This is also pushed more during SD when ORB sided with Alliance and attack Minerva, which is justified too as ORB now not just go against their own ideal but also help initiate conflicts Shinn joined ZAFT military bc he wants power to able to do things he couldnt back then and to protect those he cares/loves with said power. But after Stella's death, Shinn was threw into belief that even with power, he is still the powerless boy who witness his family death. Thats why he believe in Durandal's DESTINY plan. To bring peace and prevent same tragedies happening again And to top it off, DESTINY Plan is very surely to work successfully too cause Martian in Cosmic Era have a style of life similar to DESTINY Plan. Which is also mentioned in SEED Freedom that the said plan is surely the better path
@Madao_Aniki in the HD remaster of Seed (I don't remember which episode I just know it's after the battle of ORB). One of the added seans was Shin in a zaft uniform. (Possibly his enlistment) he was part of Z.A.F.T. by the end of the Seed.
What do you would have happened if General Revil never escaped? The novelization written by Tomino himself said the Federation were ready to concede to all of Zeon's demands just before his famous speech but I've never learned what Zeon's initial demands were. Was it just independence for Side 3 or would it extend to all spacenoids? At the very least, Zeon probably would have lasted longer in the initial counterattack. M'Quve wouldn't have gotten such a lofty command, there would have been no disastrous invasion of Earth, and possible alliance with Side 6.
honestly even with the civil war all Neo Zeon needed to win the war is either 1. talk Haman out of her infatuation with Judau so she uses the funnels against him for the easy W (some just had to tell her they could make her a Char and she'd be happy) 2. talk to Haman to not throw away the win over her boy crush and have her use her dang funnels against Judau or 3. someone just use her dang funnels for her if she's really not willing to pull that trigger for her Char rebound crush she has no chance with (both in a relation and without the dang funnels like in the cannon) seriouly Neo Zeon lost cus no one bother to show Haman online dating or something!
The state of Earth Federation is worst during Neo Zeon War...still they manage to create an S - Gundam...with Alice system at that...between Gyrps War and Neo Zeon War...
@@RGM-0079 theres a moment in the sentinel novel where alice remembers she is being made/born. In the memory she can access, she sees ryu's mom acting like a parent toward her(ironically, this makes her ryu's sister). Then some federation troops coming in and killing everyone in order to nab alice. Her memory cuts off there upon seeing ryu's mom gets blown to pieces by the breaching charge they used to enter the room. It's highly possible alice went nuts upon seeing this, with the group grabbing her(they werent Titans as ryu's commanding officer was one of the people in the raid)and the reason she's sealed off in the novel is because she might have tried erasing herself, what with her becoming alot less developed compared to then. That is until the fight with the mark-v. You know, its really ironic that ryu joined the federation army after getting told some zeon remnants/terrorists killed his parent, only to end up working under the guy who pulled the damn trigger(and also recruited him in the first place to get alice working again).
Gihrens Greed: Menace of Axis V actually did this to an extent if you were to beat the EFF with Haman's Neo Zeon. Char comes out of the wood work to challenge Hamans rule of Zeon.
During the Bloody valentine war there were two sides to the conflict ZAFT and the Earth Alliance but what if there was a third side to the war? How would that effect both the progress of the war and its aftermath?
I have an idea for your Question of the Week. In the Gundam 00 timeline? Without Celestial Being intervening or existing at all. There are 3 Superpowers who dominate Earth by controlling the orbital elevators that generates or produce Solor power energy and with influence along with a strong military power, largest military forces including mobile suits, and strong economy. The 3 Superpowers consist of the Union, HRL, and AEU. Which of the 3 Superpowers was the strongest and would win in a all at war against each other? The Union lead by USA who controls all of North America and South America and along with Oceania and Japan, HRL (Human Reform League) lead by China along with Russia and India as it's core states and ruling most of Asia, or the AEU (Advance European Union) mostly all of Europe.
I think Haman wins just for the fact that she doesn't want the Earth like the Zabis did. She's perfectly content in dropping colonies until Zeon rules space and the Federation is reduced to the stone age , aka Gundam X or Turn A.
@@DIEGhostfish it's so funny to me that people treat Neo Zeon like it was an actual viable faction and not just a completely cranked death cult of isolated weirdos that lucked into a position of power and was so badly organised that they still fumbled it
@concon09090 Honestly, after Gottoj died up till Dublin, Neo Zeon seemed crazy but not notably worse than the what was left of the Feddies. Honestly, giving Leina back and releasing Puru from service to take Judau and friends out of the fight, plus NOT just randomly pulling a Gihren *On an Earth that was already basically surrendering* (something even Space Hitler, son of Space Stalin didn't bother with.) Were the two things that coulda had her running the show. Just, y'know, not for very long.
@@junker-f3m The problem with Axis Zeon was that it had too many different factions within itself. If you read through the extended lore including CDA, you would see they had a whole civil war after the OYW. You had the Gihren loyalists, kycelia loyalists, dozle loyalists, and the axis loyalists all pitted against eachother. It was a disaster. Even in the later episode of ZZ where Judau infiltrates the axis mines, you can see some original Zabi loyalists complaining about how Haman is controlling things.
the psycho gundams probably cost as much as 3 cruisers with full mobiles suits squadrons. and the titans made 2 of them. they squandered resources on too many prototype machines(zeon OYW mistake), they allowed internal factions to form (that's what you get when you grant autonomy to every upstart Ace/commander) if lets say Titans did these: technologically dropped the Baund Doc, gabthley and the psycho gundam Mk2 while pushing for Barzam Kai for team leaders and Barzam for their surbodinates, Gaplant teams as interceptors and Hambrabi team as flanking support. they probably could have dragged out the fight longer. either Axis would be forced to commit earlier or would have lesser remnants to fight against. now if char had a family in Axis, Neo Zeon would have ruled the the Earth sphere until UC 0097. Anaheim would have spies and stolen and refined Char's Psychoframe. we would see Vist foundation completing a more radical version of Hi-Nu for Amuro, Char would have a cross between Nightingale and Neo-Zeong. lalah would bitch slap both of them at the end of time. amuro would go join lalah while char would come back to his child and wife, this time pursuing peaceful methods with EF backed by Laplace Box. Mineva attends industrial 7 school alongside Vist foundation third generation heir, banagher but they just stayed as acquaintances.
QOTW: Following on from the conclusion of this video, was there any faction that _could_ both defeat the Federation and also maintain a lasting regime in the Universal Century? Londo Bell if Bright decides to do a coup? Cosmo Babylonia or Zanscare? Maybe the League Militaire? On that note, shoutout to CONSENT for actually managing it, although that was probably mostly the Federation collapsing on its own.
I love that you're such a hardcore fan who can go indepth elaborate detail about Gundam. This Gundam content is the best, god damn. I salute you soldier 🪖✋💀🚬.
They would probably put way less of a fight. Anahein has just bought zeon tech so those machines were cheap and strong, meanwhile the GMs kai were still being converted into Quels. Had they relied on fed tech only , then those machines would have gone to their enemies like the marasai. And worse, their behaviour would probably rally more people to zeon cause as more people would relate opression to fed tech. The issue wasn't the machines themselves but the absolute mess that was their supply chain
QOTW: If Anaheim was replaced by a company from either Marvel or DC, which one would make mobile suits that meet up with or surpasses those of Anaheim? Examples: - Stark Industries - Oscorp - AIM (Advance Intelligent Mechanics) - Wayne Enterprises - Lex Corp - Star Labs Just to name a few
I would like to add a possible question to the week that my friends in discord and i discussed a month back What exactly is the canon ending to the UC? We have events such as: 1. Post-Victory 2. Crossbone Dust (reverse tech progression) 3. God forbid G Savior 4. Turn A 5. G Reco While there are many other possible endings out there i just felt that these 5 make the most sense in terms of possible canonicity All of them have UC suits somewhere and each tell their own ending to the UC So… What really happened? Thank you so much if you read this and i hope you have a great day (And that seed freedom gyan strom is just awesome i really hope the pilot doesnt pull a mcquve and screw up in the film)
While at it, kinda want to drop mine too, the possible outcome of UC is depending to few small factors which is: 1. Did we in the TB/Origin timeline or OG timeline 2. Did Amuro had a child with Beltrochika or not 3. Did people took the laplace box reveal seriously or it got supressed by feddie or not (assuming that laplace box opening was an inevitable event) My reason is for each point: point no1: TB and Origin are confirmed different timeline that have not been officially explored yet Point no2: it would change hathaway's fate one way or another since before the Hathaway flash Movie, the only timeline where Hathaway would be Mafty is the Beltrochika timeline where he killed Quess by his own hands instead killed by chen Point no3: been having this discussion with a friend if the laplace box reveal is an inevitable event or there is a timeline where it was kept hidden, but in the end the only separating point is if people took it seriously or not/supressed by feddie. Because from what we believe, if ppl took it seriously, it would be the biggest spark to the establishment of cosmo Babylonia
Kakarot197 you said it well Earth Union Group Lol. But the stories from the Manga and anime are always amazing. My favs are always the GM Sniper 2, Zaku 3, Astreys, Ms,008 team, F-91, Heavey Arm Gundams, and the Gouf. But the resources were always changing the battle's end. Federations were always human hands. It would be so cool to see a Korean Gundam in anime they look so sick. It would be very cool to see the Composite Wing Gundam Vs. SD Qitian Dasheng Wukong Impulse Gundam who would win but only hand-to-hand combat no weapons be a kool subject. Keep up the Amazing videos Kaakrot197✌😎👍
I’m more curious about cloning in the series as it seems to have next to no side effects and was regularly used like with the Puru clones, so why wasn’t it used more often by both the Earth Federation and the various Zeon organizations?
Costs and ethics, the purus were unstable both mentally and physically, training them and keeping them in shape was probably an absolute nightmare but given the breakthrough they did with cybernewtypes they gave it a shot and it wasn't enough. Marida relied on meds to keep herself stable, and i think gundam engage shows a bit more on that part
@@rafaelferreirasantos7819 thanks, I was curious because every time I tried looking it up I got Char Aznable Clones results. That would explain it, just not worth the cost or time over all in the end.
I don’t think there was ever really a chance for Neo Zeon. Not just in ZZ, but other Neo Zeon groups that followed. The industrial capacity is just not there for Zeon, let alone manpower. Even after the Gryps war Neo Zeon was still primarily operating out of hollowed out asteroids. While yes they did make some newer state of the art mobile suits they still very clearly had issues with actually fielding those units in sufficient numbers. Just as with the OWY, Neo Zeon would be absurdly hard pressed to fight a conventional war just based on the logistical challenge alone. Though in a way albeit never directly addressed to my knowledge, Neo Zeon leaders seem to be aware of this which is likely why they opt for shock and awe to try and end the conflict as quickly as possible.
Mars Zeon was allied with Axis, but their advance fleet turned around and avoided getting involved in the war with the EFSF because of the Neo Zeon civil war, since they didn't belong to either faction. And then when they returned to Mars, they ended up going to war with ReZeon, so they had other things to do. Honestly, if Glemy had been killed before his coup, the combined forces of Neo Zeon and Mars Zeon likely would have defeated the EFSF, and then they would have defeated ReZeon even faster than Mars Zeon did canonically. Unless Mars Zeon had some specific reason to oppose Axis/Neo Zeon, I think Haman stood a very good chance of holding on to her victory over the Earth sphere, and the best Char would have been able to do is revive some version of the AEUG with Anaheim's assistance and formed a resistance movement... but considering his own Neo Zeon movement basically decided the colony drops were the right choice, would Char have actually opposed Haman and Neo Zeon?
I'll give you a clear answer. That is between yes and no at the same. Even so, AEUG has hire junk collectors from Shangri-La Spirit young freedom fighters as Judau Ashta, and Gundam Team. Were just mercenaries. Meanwhile Roux Louka is the remain member. Since Judau is equally match against Haman's Quebeley of Enhanced ZZ Gundam after tough battles against Zaku 3 Kai and Quin Mantha. ZZ Gundam Full Armor used of it. It depends the situation of battle just as One Year War which Admiral Revil declare war against Principaity of Zeon lead by Giren Zabi. Its similar as WW1 and WW2 this kind of happened lots of battle. AEUG vs 1st Neo Zeon lead by Glemmy vs Haman's Axis, its unpredictable.
I can answer the question. Yes, she can. If you played Gundam vs. Zeta Gundam game Zeon storyline with alternate storyline and kept current characters lived (little spoiled killing amuro ray and destroyed Gundam keeps Garma lived) at end when you finish with Haman karn in the alternate end you get to see dozle zabi deam of Mass production of the Big Zam as a armada of them.
Question: Who really manufactured the Gundam Mk-II? Technically, it was made by the Titans, but the MG and RG kits of the AEUG variant have Anaheim Electronics markings on them. Did AE simply decide to take credit after the AEUG stole the three Mk-II units?
Not really, Aile is the most versatile. Athrun was at his best at the "Kira vs Athrun" fight. Launcher Strike is not going to hit anything; Sword would put up a good fight, but gives up on all range. Athrun is a melee master when motivated, proved by Justice feats.
@@mlo009 That's a pretty reasonable assessment. One could argue Kira has a chance of overpowering Athrun in melee with the sword striker since it's been shown anti-ship swords pack more of a punch than beam sabers, but the trade-off in agility would definitely make it harder to land a hit. Both pilots were in a berserker state and didn't seem to focus on defense so as far as which one Kira has the best shot of winning with, I might actually say sword. I don't think Athrun would be thinking clearly enough to capitalize on the range advantage he would have in that matchup
Watching 0083 way back in highschool, I never really fully processed just how devastating Gato's attack on the navel review really was until now. He and his crew really did give Zeon the chance to bounce back in a way that probably wouldn't have been possible otherwise. And it probably all could have been avoided if the Federation hadn't developed a nuke slinger like, as far as I know, they weren't supposed to be doing anyway.
You did a really great and thorough job here, great video. However I think I disagree with a good number of your points, in particular I don't think the nuclear attack at Solomon hurt them too badly. If we look at the bikini atol tests, when the US brought a lot of ships from the war for the sole purpose of being nuked, many of them were still deemed seaworthy after the bomb went off despite the damage. And if we look at the aftermath of the attack on Pearl Harbor, only the USS Arizona and a smaller ship were deemed total losses, and all other ships sunk in the attack were back in action by the end of 44. So despite heavy losses, I do not think the 100 ships the EFSF lost could be deemed total losses. We do infact hear distress calls from some ships that survived the blast discussing things such as dangerous air loss. However I think you are spot on with your point on leadership
Is it implied that the Oldsmobile Army took some cues from the Black Hares from advance of Zeta considering how they're able to catch up with most of the federation mobile suits at the time
Question(s) of the week: why did Earth sphere rely on Helium-3 mined out from Jupiter rathern than on the Moon even after the OYW? How actually work the control system of a MS?
How good is Gundam:Age when compared to other Gundam Universes? Also, how Federation form Age was able to hold of for so many years with just Genoace? I mean, Genoace were SO bad as they were described, but it is diffirence like beetween GM2 and Rick Dias in performance, and they were immiune to most Genoace wepanos. In novels, they are 60mm coil guns and beam dagers, so they could destroy enemy MS, but unitl DOTS rifle, most simply didn't have enough weapon to damaged Vagan MS to deploty on a large scale.
I am yet to see Gundam ZZ/ Double Zeta should it be aired on GundamInfo on RUclips But since I managed to get a glimpse of Haman back at Gundam Zeta: Haman’s Neo ZEON might win- IF SHE ISN’T TOO MUCH FULL OF HERSELF- and if she didn’t involve young Mineva Lao Zabi in the fray!!! *But of course gotta give credit to Haman- because if not for her- we wouldn’t have the Mineva Lao Zabi/Audrey Burne- Vist-Links that we know and we will still know after the events of Gundam Unicorn & Gundam Narrative😁
The simplest canonical answer is: Yes. The fleet that went in to take over Axis was the fleet that took the surrender note to Axis, well, not exactly surrender note but close enough. EF wanted to sign a treaty to stop fighting, highly favouring NZ. They got lucky that Glemy toto rebelled and Nahel Argama won, so they became the fleet to take credit. Also note that the Karaba is anti-Ferderation, so they will not help EF against NZ.
With ZZ being brought up, that's got me thinking, was the ZZ group of pilots just that much better then the group in Zeta, cause the Naheal argama was able to fight against newer machines from Neo zeon, and do better in the same suits from zeta, that struggled, like the Mk-II
Judau is generally considered an better natural/talented pilot and arguably a more powerful NewType than Kamille. Also they didn't have a dude named after a female body part meddling in the decision making.
Did you forget Axis Zeon had very small amount of competent pilots? Their force might appear strong, but as Haman herself admits in Zeta, it doesn't mean much when most of your mobile suits are piloted by total rookies. This situation continues up until the end of ZZ, which is probably why Nahel Argama crew survived the conflict. Not to mention double zeta is slightly overpowered.
Given that the scenario exists in the Gihren's Greed video games, could Zeon have found a way to bounce back and win the One Year War under the rule of Garma Zabi? The setup is this: 1.Garma Zabi suvives the destruction of his Gaw assault carrier, but is critically injured and comatose until the conclusion of Operation Odessa and the Zeon counterattack on Jaburo. Despite knowing he is alive, Gihren still gives his "Garma died a hero" speech in order to rally Zeon's military forces. 2. Garma wakes up and is appalled by what has happened while he is unconscious. Gihren's leadership is called into question and Char is ousted as a traitor to the Principality of Zeon for arranging the condictions leading to Garma's near death. During or just before the Battle of Solomon Degwin Zabi, Garma, and Dozle arrange a meeting with General Revil to discuss a ceasefire. 3. During the negotiations, Girhen launches a coup that removes his father from power while he is away and crowns himself the new sovereign of Zeon with Kycilia as his right hand. Being too old for this shit Degwin names Garma his successor and hands him the mantle of ruler in exile of Zeon. Zeon forces loyal to Garma, Dozle, and Degwin rally to them and the government in exile recieves the support of the Earth Federation to reomve the tyrant Gihren and his supporters from power. You can rework this however you like, but that is the gist of it.
I am about to finish watching Z, and i have 2 very big questions: 1) What was the AEUG actual strength at the start of the series? Were they actually capable to challeng the Titans (and to some extent the Federation itself) in a conventional war? Or were they simply a resistance force, their main goal being simply exposing the Titans to the Federation general public and political authorities, with their ships and mobile suits having the sole purpose of defending the colonies from the Titans retaliation? 2) How was it possible that Char stayed at Axis with the Zeon remnants after the OYW, when even a high school kid like Kamille knows that he assassinated the entire Zabi family? It doesn't make sense. There's only two options: either he managed to keep his vendetta a secret, remaining a hero to Zeon loyalists and a wanted war criminal for the Federation and the general public, or the thing became common knowledge and he had to run away right after the battle of A Baoa Qu and stay hidden under the identity of Quattro Bajeena for the whole time. Only the second option works with the plot of Z and AEUG propaganda, as it paints Char as the hero of the spacenoid cause, who also fought against the corrupt Zabi family, the only responsible for the crimes perpetrated by Zeon. This, as i said, makes it impossible for Char to stay at Axis, since he would be immediately executed by Zeon loyalists for being a regicide. Not to mention that him being the son of Zeon Zum Deikun takes any legitimacy away from Mineva's claim to the "throne" of Zeon. I mean, the adult son of the founder of the nation, who is also a charismatic leader, has a bit more legitimacy than the 5 years old grand daughter of a dead usurper. Let's be honest, Geoffrey Baratheon had a better claim to the throne of Westeros than Mineva had to the one of Zeon.
1. AEUG strength was way inferior, relying on stolen MS n ship, also require backing from major corporation. Yeah exposing Titan atrocities to the masses were their main goal. 2. In CDA, char was welcomed by the axis leader, of course some opposed it and planned a mutiny, because char was admired by common soldier. At that time no one knew he was the heir of zeon and he didnt even bother to declare it either. He only use quattro persona when joining AEUG.
It kinda floors me that Monsha, one of the most infamous and memetic pilots in all of UC Gundam, ended up as a drunken cripple hiding out on Mars with Zeon remnants and nobody seems to talk about it or want to see how it happened.
I have a question regarding Gundam SEED Destiny and that is what if Kira's kidnapping of Cagalli during her wedding caused Orb to cancel their alliance to the Earth Alliance and instead started a full-blown civil war manhunt for Kira and the entire Archangel. How would this affect the events of SEED Destiny and would Kira have gotten away with his actions the same way he did in the anime? Kira's actions in Yuna's wedding in SEED Destiny can be called out as a war crime so he was quite lucky to have gotten away with only an upset sister.
My future question is since we know some if not most mobile suits have had dangerous O.S.(Operation Systems) like the psycommu or even the NT-D System but between the Exam/Hades system and The Zero system which would be the better choice for pilots to use ?
Psycommu is better choice cuz by itself it only amplify pilot newtype power and relatively harmless, while Hades, Exam, zero system n NTD pretty much make their pilot gone cuckoo
I think the reason why we see Char the messed up way he was in CCA is more a symptom of real world Bandai meddling in production of ZZ and then wanting the big financial success of a movie as opposed to a series, like they had with the original MSG compilation movies. I like to think that if Kamille wasn't a vegetable he would've gone looking for Char and averted such a messed up timeline. I think that Char became so utterly depressed, guilt ridden, and nihilistic because of the end of the Gryps War and feeling like he failed people close to him including leading Kamille down a path that resulted in being crippled. Char cut himself off from real human connection and stewed in misery to decide that dropping colonies and asteroids was the best course of action.
One of the reasons that Zeta is so special is that we get to see Char as a protagonist. Him becoming the biggest villain of all in CCA never sat right with me.
Damn it Judau!! It was a win win, you should've joined Haman. Together you would've had world peace, Puru one's survival, and your sister back plus a mansion. Hell even Rasara would've lived!!!
I think the real wonder of the Federation is that it managed to survive _despite_ itself, rather than that it lasted as long as it did. I've started drawing parallels with the late British Empire where 'status quo' was more important than actually improving things (let's face it, Rome went the same way).
It’s interesting that you bring that up because it correlates to what the owner of the diner had said to Mineva in Gundam unicorn he said that while there may be some individuals that could fight for the good of all people, but he admits that he has been always rather suspicious of those types Char being one of them It’s even further corroborated in Char’s Counterattack when Amuro was taunting him by saying that revolutionaries always have these grand ideas but their aims can be so unrealistic that they will stoop to drastic measures and ultimately these are doomed to fail because both Char and Haman tried to do overly aggressive things, and whether it was through Civil War, underestimating the enemy, or simple hubris, they would always be defeated
Prewatch: No, but she won my heart. The Captain of Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department Special Vehicles Section 2, Division 1. Post: (I kinda halfassed listened while doing work so I mightve missed some already said stuff) She could win depending on when Char decides to take action. But if we considered its just Neo Zeon and Feddies, Feddies may have advanced technology and advanced MS but they may not have the funds to upgrade their grunt MS. It's like the Nazi Germany situation where they funded the Panther, King Tigers, and other Wunderwaffes. Sure, they're formidable weapons, but they could've spent the fundings to improve the multitude of problems like fixing the weak transmission system of the Tiger 1 tanks or build more and improve Panzer IVs and other already existing weapon platforms. (I am not advocating Nazism just to be clear). I am viewing these advanced MS like Hyaku Shikis, Hazels, and etc as imperfect things (even the most advanced military vehicles of today have problems that needs to be brushed). So even if they are sent to the battlefield, they are probably super nightmarish things to maintain. In addition, Feddies lost a lot of experienced pilots, which could hamper the effectiveness of these advanced MS. The Gundam series love to show the impressive features of an MS but it also fails to consider how maintaining these MS would be. If we going by ZZ time, the feddies still use GMIIs, GMIIIs and Nemo, which aren't bad but probably are insufficient to counter Gaza-Cs and Neo Zeon seem to taken a lot of Titan's MSs. In addition, based on Zeta, Neo Zeon seems to have a good supply of Gaza-Cs, which could show that they probably been working on that model for a good while, which could mean that they are maintainable and replaceable. Even without the Gaza-Cs, the Zaku IIs (non-Kai ver) are inferior by the time of ZZ when compared to GMIIs, IIIs and Nemos, but they're still formidable as they are modular to situations, easier to maintain, cheaper to produce, and probably easier to train new people. Also, ammunition. Beam weapons may be expensive to produce, even with mass production, but kinetic weapons have existed for centuries (in UC time). It's just tried and true ammunition. It may not be as effective as beam, but the MS can have constant access to munitions, and they are probably easier to improve on compare to beam weapons (i don't think improved munition is explored in the series as a whole though). It's also probably a logistical nightmare to create beam munitions that meets the standard for a GM beam rifle and a Gundam/Hazel/Hyaku Shiki beam rifle. It may take a lot of Zakus to beat a Hyaku Shiki or Gundam MKII but, if we factor in pilot skill and numbers, it might just take three veteran Zakus to beat one recruit unlucky enough to pilot the Hyaku Shiki. And that's an expensive equipment lost against cheaper equipment. I am heavily biased towards the Zaku II as I personally think it's the best MS design ever and my favorite MS ever and I was super happy when the Borjanon series (I know these Zakus are built different) appeared in Turn A gundam but I also think modularity and low cost of the Zaku II is its greatest strength.
If we consider Char's involvement in the probability of Haman's victory against feddies, it will heaviliy depend on the writers: either char will compete with haman for the righteous throne of Zeon as a unifier, or collaborate with haman to defeat a common enemy and then compete for the throne or it ends up being a weird romance thing and they become King and Queen who knows its gundam romance. Politics is a messy thing and I don't feel like I have a grasp of gundamlitics but I think Haman will have difficulty maintaining control of Neo zeon as a whole. Char is a massive charismatic guy even to people who never met him. He served extensively during the one year war and has gained wide respect for fighting the white devil many times and lived to tell about it. I don't know if the Zeon population knows but if they do, he also fought to put an end to the Titans, which would be a massive respect boost from the spacenoids. He is also the son of Zeon Zum Deikun and a friend of Garma Zabi who many people probably still respect him for his bravery (and I doubt the populous ever found out that Char betrayed him). With a resume like that, Haman has some really difficult political competition. Her act in zeta is nothing more than to shutdown a competition. And then there's Minerva Zabi. I am not too familiar with Unicorn stuff (I didn't really pay attention compare to Tomino series) but from what I remember, Minerva has a different mindset from Haman which makes things even more complicated politically. She's well liked as the Daughter of Dozle Zabi who many people respected due to his final stand at Solomon. It's true she's riding on the coattail of her father but she also has a more sympathetic viewpoint where she prefers a peaceful means, which would resonate with zeonists who are tired of constant fighting. Gundam politics is a pain in the ass.
Haman's fight against the Federation would've been a slog and cost her forces dearly. The AEUG/Karaba wouldn't just roll over for them, especially with Amuro, Bright, and Hayato's leadership along with the plethora of aces like Yuu Kajima and Shin Matsunaga who would've opposed her.
How do handheld weapons get power from reactors, when it’s not connected to them (for example the Destinys high energy beam rifle draws power from its deuterion engine)
In Seed, each weapon have a plug that connect to the MS finger, that's why they unable to wield other faction weapon. UC handheld weapon meanwhile use E-cap thus not powered by the MS reactor.
In my honest opinion Haman couldn't win. There are a couple of factors that were into play 1. Haman couldn't trust Glemy and that lead Glemy into a rebellion taking along some of the most skilled pilots with him and the the newest mobile suit at the time, leading to a civil war 2. Haman didn't really a long term goal other then destroy the federation. That was something even pointed out in a couple of SRW and Haman will always say she has to destroy the federation and figure out later. 3. Haman didn't install loyalty in her troops. half of them were with her because she was in change not out of loyalty while half of them were loyal. 4. She literary had to use a decoy Mineva to lead. Though it dose to come into question how loyal she was to the Zabi family since a couple SRW and SD Gundam have her loyal to the family while some outright admit she is the true ruler. The mangas were kind of ambiguous on the subject. There are a couple more but ya there was no way she would of won. Fighting the Federation and fighting a civil wars that was entirely Haman fault.
Short answer: yes. ZZ's ending was a lazy, rushed rehash of the original Gundam's ending. ZZ itself is such a slap in the face to fans of the first two Gundam series.
The naval review is not a coincident event. It is theorized that the Titan founder manipulated the Delaz fleet through Cima to nuke the Naval review so there would be no opposition for the formation of Titan.
Could Haman's Neo Zeon win? Yes. Could they maintain control for any extended period of time? Probably not. If there's one thing that Zeon in any incarnation is well-known for, it's in-fighting.
Shouldnt we also adress how Neo Zeon in ZZ was portrayed to be filled by amateurs and also Haman not being ruthless as she was before in Gryps when she held meeting with feddie top brass?
![Why MS Got Smaller And More on GM II Vs. GM Custom [Question of the Week]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XLiBrOfwFkA/mqdefault.jpg)
The EFSF having the naval review anyway is like the citizens of Gotham going to the circus the same day the Joker escaped Arkham.
So, an average Thursday night in Gotham.
Having a whole nuclear mobile suit stolen was just as bad as going to the zoo not knowing if the escaped tiger was caught. Pure ineptitude.
"oh on, one of our nuke that capable to obliterate a entire army got stolen"
"anyway, let's gather the majority of our military forces into one place and broadcast it to the world for our reputation"
Once you realize how much of a Hurculean effort it was to get the entire earth sphere space force into the same place for a naval review, what resulted can be a little more understood, or at the very least what the brass were thinking... It's no different than when it was done in war time during the OYW, once a force THAT big has a plan and commits to moving or gathering somewhere, its not that easy to disperse into smaller forces and move anywhere. They obviously weren't expecting the threat and they didn't think the ENTIRE FLEET would be threatened by a single MS, nukes or not. The end result was a mix of literally not being ABLE to do anything else once the force committed to move as one/ ignorance of the situational threat/ and their pure hubris- "one MS can't destroy the entire fleet!"(remember the Death Star in Star Wars? its kind of like that) A naval review of basically the entire fleet is going to require some intense planning far ahead of the event if it is to be executed successfully. Imagine telling an ENTIRE EARTH FLEET gathered in one place reports came in that Zeon has a single MS with a single high yield nuke, and it is out in space, somewhere, looking for some payback. What would the Admirals do? Would they IMMEDIATELY start dispersing the fleet in every direction in a panic? No, but that is really the only thing they could have done to try and survive what was coming. In reality you would most likely proceed AS PLANNED but you'd have the fleet on high alert. You'd probably think that even if this MS has a nuke, YOU are the one with the MASSIVE advantage and would WELCOME ANY mobile suit to take on the entire fleet. When you think it out, its not hard to reason why things happened the way they did, and what at first looks like a complete sucker move on the part of the Federation isn't so cut and dry after all.
This is actually one of the worst violations of the laws of physics in Gundam. There's no way that a single nuclear bomb could've done that much damage, in space - nukes in vacuum only release like 10% as much energy as they do in atmosphere.
It's so common in sci-fi and media to see writers underestimate the power of a nuke, that a lot of people don't notice when writers egregiously *overestimate* the power of a nuke, as Stardust Memory did.
Winning is one thing. Maintaining control is an entirely different beast.
Exactly. They had next to no resources and very few experienced politicians, commanders, or civilian leaders. They'd have to put down insurgents in space and on Earth likely organized by very motivated One Year War vets and well-connected business and political leaders. It'd have been a mess. Plus, the Federation has huge resource reserves they could activate compared to relatively little reserves for Axis Neo-Zeon.
@QuintusAntonious and I doubt Anaheim would like getting IOUs from Neo Zeon.
Plus even if they did, Char would be a wild card
Char could do what he did canonically just fighting a 2 front war or he becomes Quatro again just with his own Neo Zeon and negotiating something to the Feds@@SudrianTales
Neo zeon: and I Would have gotten away with it too, if hadn’t been for those meddling kids and their gundam.
And Glemmy!
@@chaosgreyblood Glemmy Demmy Doo!
Haha that’s so funny 😂
The Earth Federation has to be the all time champion of pyrrhic victories in all of military sci-fi. And sure enough, as the chronologically latest works set in the Universal Century show, the strain of every conflict ending with a pyrrhic victory is eventually too much for the Federation to bear, as they lose all credibility throughout the earth sphere and basically collapse despite having no credible alternative or successor, leaving humanity in a new dark age.
Definitely. Even worse, those pyrrhic victories continuously convinced spaceanoids to keep fighting. Leading to the feds getting ground down by decades of conflicts playing whack a mole across known space.
Either that or the patron saint of the last minute comebacks. Like seriously the federation is clearly doomed 5 different times and the keep wining last second through a mixture of mass production and kids in prototype robots again and again
And eventually, someone invents the damn Moonlight Butterfly to finally put an end to it all.
@@BioGoji-zm5phnah the Fed already in bad condition during Victory. Post Victory, their whole system just collapse and they just into chaos completely. Then dissolved with new one take over
@@unaiestanconapelaez2526 It's fun to watch the 'good guy faction' struggle to win when you're an audience member, but if you were actually living in that world, having your government be brought to the very brink of total defeat four times in twenty years would actually suck ass. The things that make for a good mecha space opera story wouldn't be fun at all if you had to live through them. Even if we use real world countries as an analogy, nobody wants to win a war because your side had more capability to absorb horrendous losses.
Ahh, Anaheim Electronics. Good old Space Raytheon.
100% I imagine Earth Federation reservist units reactivating mothballed OYW era RGM-79 GMs and RGM-79C GM Kais, just what ever was in storage or in boneyards being desperately reissued to hastily assembled Federation units given the unenviable task of holding the line against Neo Zeon with obsolete kit
I have a HG GM Kai, I'm thinking of making a custom based on your idea :D
By that point, most OYW GM's had already been upgraded to GM II's, with a small number of GM Quell's, GM Customs, and GM Commander Space Types not having undergone the upgrades. All the various GM versions had largely been consolidated under the GM II standards, and it was noted that new-build GM II's, rather than GM's upgraded to GM II status, were of higher quality and performance levels, mostly due to the standardization involved, whereas OYW GM's were, until the GM Type C, mostly slapped together haphazardly and different factories had different standards for production that resulted in wildly different stats depending on the individual unit, much like WW2 SMG's and tanks assembled under emergency circumstances vs the same units made when more resources, manpower, and time was available to make them to higher standards.
Let's take the T-34 tank as an example: The WW2 tank, built under WW2 standards, often had substandard armor that was easily penetrated compared to the exact same tank built after WW2, or during WW2 when the USSR was no longer on the offensive. Parts used by earlier production tanks weren't necessarily compatible with later production tanks as a result of "slap anything that works into the unit and push it onto the frontline as quickly as possible" vs "let's actually meet the intended design goals instead of thinking of them as something that would be nice to achieve under perfect circumstances."
I mean that and Char was also out there, waiting for his chance to take control of Neo Zeon. It's likely he would have done a similar play Haman did way back in Zeta; wait until one of the forces is defeated and attack when least expected.
I have also a question. It was revealed in UC Engage, Char was already building his Newborn Neo Zeon while the First Neo Zeon War still occured, specifically after the Dublin Colony Drop, and a cutscene shows that Char already has a disposal of Geara Dogas in a hanger in some place (I assume it's the Colony Sweetwater), meaning Char had the capabilities, resorces and even allies to build and develop his own army, and he only returned from hiding after Haman and Glemy were killed so he can take advantage of the power vacuums from their absence, and create his own Neo Zeon group. What would happen if Char revealed himself and Newborn Neo Zeon during the First Neo Zeon War? How will things turn out?
That scenario mostly played out in SRW game, which ended in 3 way war or either char or haman allied with the protagonist.
10:00 me and my friends in discord were talking about things like the impact of the lapas box being kept hidden and a buddy brought up that gato technically got his victory against the earth federation by being the nuclear knife that stabbed the EF in the heart that just kept bleeding more and more until the late uc where it collapsed as a major power
He didn't say it like that tho
The wars all seemed to be defined as Federation complacency vs the guarantee of Zeon infighting with Anaheim profiteering. Take out any one of those and things would be up in the air, with the Federation having a resource and manpower edge, if not always the technical advantage.
Didnt they basically win? The earth federation was ready to capitulate.. especially after the colony drop. If not for Glemy Haman would have wiped the floor with the war tired Federation. I mean they lost a hefty chunk of their military power in the form of the Titans and had little to nothing to replace them with. Meanwhile Hamans Neo zeon had all the state of the art weaponry and highly motivated soldiers.
Not at all. Remember their will to fight was contingent on fighting for the zabi heir mineva and she went mia after the first neo Zeon war. Plus the federation didn’t get involved until zeon started their in fighting
Pretty Much. Glemy probably did more to save the feddies than anyone else. Oh the Irony
@@peacecraft2149 Well yeah, if it wasn't for the civil I'm pretty sure no one would've figured out Minvea was a fake + half of them were insanely devoted to Haman. Pretty sure Glemy didn't even know she was a fake. Also the Federation didn't get involved until the end of the fighting bc the Federation military virtually didn't exsit, didn't the capital fall in a few days of the earth invasion? Not to mention the force that mopped up Neo-Zeon were AEUG leftover who integrated back into the EFF. EFF high command/politicians was either wiped out from early days of the war/civil war or gave up.
@@peacecraft2149 Haman karn was the first neo zeon war though. She had mineva under her control, heck Char tried to assasinate mineva, hence why Haman came after him during the Gryps War and sorta kinda but not really sided with Sirrocco
Yes, Haman won the war, but then the series had to change for ratings sake, so Haman went Gihren 2.0 and dropped the colony to “strike fear”, for no reason basically. All it did was invigorate the Earth Sphere and give Glemy room to be the worst piece of shit ever.
ZZ felt weird to me due to the focus of only 1 ship. Felt to me like they were the only one's fighting the whole war.
Remember, Gundam ZZ would have been prevented if Kamille didn't turn into a vegetable after his last battle. But I digress.
@@BeyondDaX In New Translation, Kamille did escape that.
@@BeyondDaX Why would it have? Kamille surviving the final battle wouldn't have just caused Haman Khan and her fleet to disappear or anything, nor would it change the fact that the AEUG was almost wiped out in the disastrous Gryps battle.
@@dark7element True but its often a question if things would have changed significantly if Kamile were around
The lack of 1st NZ War side stories is to thank for that.
Honestly its a miracle that the Federation was still even a fighting chance by this period, honestly it reminds me of the situation that was the Sengoku Jidai then you mix in the clusterfuck that was the Boshin War, would be a interesting scenario to see that what if the fracturing of the Federation was even more severe that several more factions other than the AEUG and Titans with conflicting ideals pop up. I can totally see the Newtype Labs becoming their own faction instead of supporting Titan Remnants. Yes I am in a Total War Shogun 2 mode, the Federation's Sengoku Jidai.
I can’t deny the first Neo Zeon war was their best chance at winning. But Zeon has a unique talent for managing to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory. Once Haman’s colony drop succeeded while describing victory as ‘impossible’ would be a bit much, it would become much harder. Even Glemy was hardened to fight Zeon by that. And while some of the top brass saw the colony drop and just went ‘welp’ the last time this happened they made the titans so the federation would probably start putting up one hell of a fight. Admittedly I’m not sure if it would be enough to win, but Zeon would come away with less than ideal peace terms.
Gihrens Greed explores this scenario to some extent with Menace of Axis V on the PSP/PS2
The colony drop pretty much made sure nobody would consent to live under a psycho who dropped a colony on an already basically surrendered earth.
We can always go through this scenario in Gihren's Greed games.
Those games are kinda outdated now due to the more recent Gundam series and lore
@@BeyondDaX Not really. Thunderbolt and Origin are their own timeline, so it only leaves the Laplace incident as not covered.
@@nikoladedic6623Also the Mafty Rebellion and late UC wars like the Crossbone Vanguard and Zanscare wars.
@@GrandAdmiralBatuKhan Yeah, but those are distant wars, not related to the ones covered in the games. Why do you think it's called Gihren's Greed?
@@GrandAdmiralBatuKhan considering this conversation is about haman winning the first neo zeon war, those are irrelevant. You can very well beat the EFF with haman in GG. Menace of Axis V has a whole thing about char's rebellion for that specific scenario.
You know, i wonder what would have happened if Operation stardust/gundam development project wasn't covered up and it was revealed to everyone during Kou's hearing on who caused it. This includes Jamitov, Anaheim electronics board of directors, and the people in the federation's government.
Would this have possibly saved albion's captain from firing squad? Would Zeon remnants get angry at being used and find another target for their anger? Would even Anaheim get Boycotted/halt of service/sued after said reveal?
In my mind/head-canon, i would figure that instead of the titans getting formed, it would be something like a third party group made up of members between the Republic of Zeon and the Federation(sort of like bargest from the katana manga, but alot bigger).
Mind giving me your thoughts on this Kakarot197 for the next question of the week?
So you mean evil AEUG?
You mean Celestial Being?
@@rafaelferreirasantos7819 more like a ngo that investigates matters involving groups that can cause issues(terrorism included) and then reports it to those who will handle said situation. I say report as after the debacle of operation stardus, i would think they would be heavier limits on peoples access to ms.
@@TheWarmachine375 celestial being without terrorism, no mobile suits/armor, and they report the groups that will cause the problem to the authorities that will get that shite handled quick as they advised.
Now that i think about it, they are kinda like the forecasters(like sumeragi) but the investigative kind.
Let's face it, aside from Haman and maybe, Rakan Dakaran everyone else in Neo Zeon was an idiot at that point in time.
Gotton wasn't but he also exploded.
Winning the war and keeping the whole thing together after words are two completely different things. While I fully agree that Neo Zeon had a decent chance at winning the war if the civil war had not kicked off I highly doubt they would have had the ability or political acumen to hold their new empire together for long before factions started stabbing each other in the back. I say this as a die hard Zeon fangirl too, I am a realist sort as well and frankly given the state of leadership of Neo Zeon at that time they had no real leaders with a true claim to either the Zabi thrown or Deikun's legacy. If Char had joined Haman and took on his birth name that alone could have solidified Zeon. It could also have brought a few neutral colonies on board too given the respect Deikun had across the colonies. However as things were given the times I doubt Zeon could have held anything together for long before infighting began. Just my opinion naturally but I'd welcome a chance for Zeon to rise again but more in line with how Zeon Deikun wanted and not the neo-fascist mutation of the Zabi's or revenge fueled Neo Zeon movements that really had no hope of ever doing more than terrorist attacks.
I have not watched ZZ recently, but didn’t Haman/Neo Zeon do well because they blitzed the federation after the Aeug and Titans exhausted themselves at Gryps and brought the war/destruction to earth really damn quickly. The Federation was going to capitulate after the colony drop because the upper brass were cowards but then went all in against Zeon after the Glemy’s rebellion. I thought Haman wanted a quick treaty in Neo Zeon’s favor because she was concerned the Federation could out manpower and out material Neo Zeon fairly quickly if they actually gave a damn.
Kind of like how Char did well in the second Neo Zeon war. Neo Zeon did well because they were only fighting against Londo Bell. If the Federation actually gave a shit , they would have put down Char’s rebellion fairly quickly.
More like char did his homework and make sure the Feddie "doesn't give a damn".
Yes, he did something behind the stage to stall HQ Feddie's decision. But Londobell just seen how this will play if they wait for HQ, iirc char had some if not most of the Feddie's Bigwig "naughty list" book and used it as leverage
Haman essentially got character assassinated by Tomino so that the series’ rating would improve, ushering in the tried and true villain staples of “colony drop, big speech, civilian targets”, and Glemy got Scirocco’d by being woman manipulator, but even worse as “child groomer”.
ZZ totally mishandles Haman’s character (among many others) and it’s a disgrace. She deserved a better legacy and also a better fate.
@@jakobvonbugmann Char got the Tomino treatment too. When he dropped an asteroid on TIbet for no reason.
QOTW: What are the most underappreciated warships used in the Universal Century?
Zeon: *commits atrocities that make them feared around the Earth Sphere*
Federation: "Those monsters! We'll defeat then, and then we'll make a task force to hunt them down!"
Teetans: *makes mobile suits that look like Zeon suits.*
Federation: "Yes! We'll bankroll you!"
Teetans: *commits atrocities*
Federation: "Maybe we'll not use that equipment."
AEUG: *repainting captured machines knowing that they're still perfectly servicable.*
I got an idea for the question of the week.
(What if Kira died at the end of Gundam Seed? How would Destiny be different?)
Destiny would be a better show and Shinn would remain the main protagonist.
I once had this kind of convo with a friend and it leads to this:
it would be a weird situation for Shin since his main reason on joining the army is to show to ORB that they're a big hypocrite and can't do shit, he is antagonizing Freedom not because of Freedom killed his family, but Freedom was the image of ORB's strength, so if he can shot down Freedom he can prove that ORB is weak. But if Kira dies by the end of SEED, Shin might not have any reason to join ZAFT and might just go the politic way to bash ORB in the face as a politician(or an apprentice of one which might be durandal)
@@Madao_Aniki Not really. The actual reason Shinn antagonize ORB is because their nation ideal: be a neutral nation, and yet start conflict with the Alliance in battle of ORB event
Which cause him to lose his family, as well as why he antagonize ORB and Freedom. This also why Shinn antagonize Cagalli and her ideal in early SD. This is also pushed more during SD when ORB sided with Alliance and attack Minerva, which is justified too as ORB now not just go against their own ideal but also help initiate conflicts
Shinn joined ZAFT military bc he wants power to able to do things he couldnt back then and to protect those he cares/loves with said power. But after Stella's death, Shinn was threw into belief that even with power, he is still the powerless boy who witness his family death. Thats why he believe in Durandal's DESTINY plan. To bring peace and prevent same tragedies happening again
And to top it off, DESTINY Plan is very surely to work successfully too cause Martian in Cosmic Era have a style of life similar to DESTINY Plan. Which is also mentioned in SEED Freedom that the said plan is surely the better path
I see, good to know
@Madao_Aniki in the HD remaster of Seed (I don't remember which episode I just know it's after the battle of ORB). One of the added seans was Shin in a zaft uniform. (Possibly his enlistment) he was part of Z.A.F.T. by the end of the Seed.
What do you would have happened if General Revil never escaped? The novelization written by Tomino himself said the Federation were ready to concede to all of Zeon's demands just before his famous speech but I've never learned what Zeon's initial demands were. Was it just independence for Side 3 or would it extend to all spacenoids?
At the very least, Zeon probably would have lasted longer in the initial counterattack. M'Quve wouldn't have gotten such a lofty command, there would have been no disastrous invasion of Earth, and possible alliance with Side 6.
...Were there even that many spacenoids left by that point? Just 3 and 6 and one colony at 7.
@@DIEGhostfish Side 1 wasn't hit near as hard.
@@boxtank5288 I had thought Side 1 still lost its habitablity but was repairable (Shangri-la getting put back together)
@@DIEGhostfish Right but compared to Side 4?
honestly even with the civil war all Neo Zeon needed to win the war is either
1. talk Haman out of her infatuation with Judau so she uses the funnels against him for the easy W (some just had to tell her they could make her a Char and she'd be happy)
2. talk to Haman to not throw away the win over her boy crush and have her use her dang funnels against Judau
or 3. someone just use her dang funnels for her if she's really not willing to pull that trigger for her Char rebound crush she has no chance with (both in a relation and without the dang funnels like in the cannon)
seriouly Neo Zeon lost cus no one bother to show Haman online dating or something!
The state of Earth Federation is worst during Neo Zeon War...still they manage to create an S - Gundam...with Alice system at that...between Gyrps War and Neo Zeon War...
I could have sworn alice was made by ryu roots mom and was stolen in a raid(which killed said mom) by the federation?
@@nicholashoskins8266 really?...I don't know about that part of stories...
@@RGM-0079 theres a moment in the sentinel novel where alice remembers she is being made/born. In the memory she can access, she sees ryu's mom acting like a parent toward her(ironically, this makes her ryu's sister). Then some federation troops coming in and killing everyone in order to nab alice. Her memory cuts off there upon seeing ryu's mom gets blown to pieces by the breaching charge they used to enter the room.
It's highly possible alice went nuts upon seeing this, with the group grabbing her(they werent Titans as ryu's commanding officer was one of the people in the raid)and the reason she's sealed off in the novel is because she might have tried erasing herself, what with her becoming alot less developed compared to then. That is until the fight with the mark-v.
You know, its really ironic that ryu joined the federation army after getting told some zeon remnants/terrorists killed his parent, only to end up working under the guy who pulled the damn trigger(and also recruited him in the first place to get alice working again).
tbh the s gundam and alice along with the fazz and zeta plus were probably already built well before the events of zz
You should do a what if scenario based on this with the ultimate fate of AEUG and Karaba and the inevitable return of Char to challenge Haman.
Londo Bell and Axis Zeon team up to stop Char’s plan of bombarding Earth with multiple colonies causing similar effect to the Axis Shock.
Gihrens Greed: Menace of Axis V actually did this to an extent if you were to beat the EFF with Haman's Neo Zeon. Char comes out of the wood work to challenge Hamans rule of Zeon.
@@Truenofan86 The Dublin drop shows that Haman would have no issue with that.
During the Bloody valentine war there were two sides to the conflict ZAFT and the Earth Alliance but what if there was a third side to the war? How would that effect both the progress of the war and its aftermath?
I have an idea for your Question of the Week.
In the Gundam 00 timeline? Without Celestial Being intervening or existing at all. There are 3 Superpowers who dominate Earth by controlling the orbital elevators that generates or produce Solor power energy and with influence along with a strong military power, largest military forces including mobile suits, and strong economy. The 3 Superpowers consist of the Union, HRL, and AEU. Which of the 3 Superpowers was the strongest and would win in a all at war against each other? The Union lead by USA who controls all of North America and South America and along with Oceania and Japan, HRL (Human Reform League) lead by China along with Russia and India as it's core states and ruling most of Asia, or the AEU (Advance European Union) mostly all of Europe.
AEU had Africa in their pocket too
I think Haman wins just for the fact that she doesn't want the Earth like the Zabis did. She's perfectly content in dropping colonies until Zeon rules space and the Federation is reduced to the stone age , aka Gundam X or Turn A.
Haman Did Nothing Wrong. Even Char would come to agree by CCA.
Thanks for answering my question. I really enjoyed the video.
Brilliant analysis. I almost forgot how the New Desides figured into the situation, too.
I fully believe that if Glemy Toto hadn't rebelled, they would have won
yeah but he did, because Neo Zeon was an unstable clown state lmao
@concon09090 You live that far from the sun, and you either find Jesus or go space-crazt.
@@DIEGhostfish it's so funny to me that people treat Neo Zeon like it was an actual viable faction and not just a completely cranked death cult of isolated weirdos that lucked into a position of power and was so badly organised that they still fumbled it
@concon09090 Honestly, after Gottoj died up till Dublin, Neo Zeon seemed crazy but not notably worse than the what was left of the Feddies.
Honestly, giving Leina back and releasing Puru from service to take Judau and friends out of the fight, plus NOT just randomly pulling a Gihren *On an Earth that was already basically surrendering* (something even Space Hitler, son of Space Stalin didn't bother with.) Were the two things that coulda had her running the show. Just, y'know, not for very long.
@@junker-f3m The problem with Axis Zeon was that it had too many different factions within itself. If you read through the extended lore including CDA, you would see they had a whole civil war after the OYW. You had the Gihren loyalists, kycelia loyalists, dozle loyalists, and the axis loyalists all pitted against eachother. It was a disaster. Even in the later episode of ZZ where Judau infiltrates the axis mines, you can see some original Zabi loyalists complaining about how Haman is controlling things.
the psycho gundams probably cost as much as 3 cruisers with full mobiles suits squadrons. and the titans made 2 of them.
they squandered resources on too many prototype machines(zeon OYW mistake),
they allowed internal factions to form (that's what you get when you grant autonomy to every upstart Ace/commander)
if lets say Titans did these:
technologically dropped the Baund Doc, gabthley and the psycho gundam Mk2 while
pushing for Barzam Kai for team leaders and Barzam for their surbodinates, Gaplant teams as interceptors and Hambrabi team as flanking support.
they probably could have dragged out the fight longer.
either Axis would be forced to commit earlier or would have lesser remnants to fight against.
now if char had a family in Axis, Neo Zeon would have ruled the the Earth sphere until UC 0097.
Anaheim would have spies and stolen and refined Char's Psychoframe.
we would see Vist foundation completing a more radical version of Hi-Nu for Amuro, Char would have a cross between Nightingale and Neo-Zeong.
lalah would bitch slap both of them at the end of time.
amuro would go join lalah while char would come back to his child and wife, this time pursuing peaceful methods with EF backed by Laplace Box.
Mineva attends industrial 7 school alongside Vist foundation third generation heir, banagher but they just stayed as acquaintances.
QOTW: Following on from the conclusion of this video, was there any faction that _could_ both defeat the Federation and also maintain a lasting regime in the Universal Century? Londo Bell if Bright decides to do a coup? Cosmo Babylonia or Zanscare? Maybe the League Militaire?
On that note, shoutout to CONSENT for actually managing it, although that was probably mostly the Federation collapsing on its own.
I love that you're such a hardcore fan who can go indepth elaborate detail about Gundam. This Gundam content is the best, god damn. I salute you soldier 🪖✋💀🚬.
What if the Titans never used HiZack or other Zeon-Like MS's but instead used more Gundam-like or GM styled weapons.
They would probably put way less of a fight. Anahein has just bought zeon tech so those machines were cheap and strong, meanwhile the GMs kai were still being converted into Quels. Had they relied on fed tech only , then those machines would have gone to their enemies like the marasai. And worse, their behaviour would probably rally more people to zeon cause as more people would relate opression to fed tech. The issue wasn't the machines themselves but the absolute mess that was their supply chain
QOTW: If Anaheim was replaced by a company from either Marvel or DC, which one would make mobile suits that meet up with or surpasses those of Anaheim?
Examples:
- Stark Industries
- Oscorp
- AIM (Advance Intelligent Mechanics)
- Wayne Enterprises
- Lex Corp
- Star Labs
Just to name a few
For Marvel:Stark Industries
For DC: Lex Corp
I would like to add a possible question to the week that my friends in discord and i discussed a month back
What exactly is the canon ending to the UC?
We have events such as:
1. Post-Victory
2. Crossbone Dust (reverse tech progression)
3. God forbid G Savior
4. Turn A
5. G Reco
While there are many other possible endings out there i just felt that these 5 make the most sense in terms of possible canonicity
All of them have UC suits somewhere and each tell their own ending to the UC
So…
What really happened?
Thank you so much if you read this and i hope you have a great day
(And that seed freedom gyan strom is just awesome i really hope the pilot doesnt pull a mcquve and screw up in the film)
While at it, kinda want to drop mine too, the possible outcome of UC is depending to few small factors which is:
1. Did we in the TB/Origin timeline or OG timeline
2. Did Amuro had a child with Beltrochika or not
3. Did people took the laplace box reveal seriously or it got supressed by feddie or not (assuming that laplace box opening was an inevitable event)
My reason is for each point:
point no1: TB and Origin are confirmed different timeline that have not been officially explored yet
Point no2: it would change hathaway's fate one way or another since before the Hathaway flash Movie, the only timeline where Hathaway would be Mafty is the Beltrochika timeline where he killed Quess by his own hands instead killed by chen
Point no3: been having this discussion with a friend if the laplace box reveal is an inevitable event or there is a timeline where it was kept hidden, but in the end the only separating point is if people took it seriously or not/supressed by feddie. Because from what we believe, if ppl took it seriously, it would be the biggest spark to the establishment of cosmo Babylonia
I don't quite get what the question is. All of the ones you cited are technically canon enough to consider all of them happened.
I don't quite get what the question is. All of the ones you cited are technically canon enough to consider all of them happened.
I don't quite get what the question is. All of the ones you cited are technically canon enough to consider all of them happened.
@@CoracaoAcidental98 drat
Kakarot197 you said it well Earth Union Group Lol. But the stories from the Manga and anime are always amazing. My favs are always the GM Sniper 2, Zaku 3, Astreys, Ms,008 team, F-91, Heavey Arm Gundams, and the Gouf. But the resources were always changing the battle's end. Federations were always human hands. It would be so cool to see a Korean Gundam in anime they look so sick. It would be very cool to see the Composite Wing Gundam Vs. SD Qitian Dasheng Wukong Impulse Gundam who would win but only hand-to-hand combat no weapons be a kool subject. Keep up the Amazing videos Kaakrot197✌😎👍
I’m more curious about cloning in the series as it seems to have next to no side effects and was regularly used like with the Puru clones, so why wasn’t it used more often by both the Earth Federation and the various Zeon organizations?
Supposedly it was, ReZeon based out of mars is run by a squad of Puru clone lookalikes claiming to be clones of Kacillia.
Costs and ethics, the purus were unstable both mentally and physically, training them and keeping them in shape was probably an absolute nightmare but given the breakthrough they did with cybernewtypes they gave it a shot and it wasn't enough. Marida relied on meds to keep herself stable, and i think gundam engage shows a bit more on that part
@@rafaelferreirasantos7819 thanks, I was curious because every time I tried looking it up I got Char Aznable Clones results. That would explain it, just not worth the cost or time over all in the end.
I don’t think there was ever really a chance for Neo Zeon. Not just in ZZ, but other Neo Zeon groups that followed.
The industrial capacity is just not there for Zeon, let alone manpower. Even after the Gryps war Neo Zeon was still primarily operating out of hollowed out asteroids. While yes they did make some newer state of the art mobile suits they still very clearly had issues with actually fielding those units in sufficient numbers. Just as with the OWY, Neo Zeon would be absurdly hard pressed to fight a conventional war just based on the logistical challenge alone.
Though in a way albeit never directly addressed to my knowledge, Neo Zeon leaders seem to be aware of this which is likely why they opt for shock and awe to try and end the conflict as quickly as possible.
QOTW: what if instead of Char it was another ace who found the V project like Ramba Ral the black tri-stars or the white wolf?
I got an idea for a question for the week.
What happend to sayla mass after the events of the original gundam?
In Zeta she was listening to her brother's speech in Dakar. In Double Zeta she was looking after Judo's sister at the end.
Honestly, while I dont think Axis could've dominated the Earth Sphere, freeing Side 3 was cerraintly doable.
Mars Zeon was allied with Axis, but their advance fleet turned around and avoided getting involved in the war with the EFSF because of the Neo Zeon civil war, since they didn't belong to either faction. And then when they returned to Mars, they ended up going to war with ReZeon, so they had other things to do. Honestly, if Glemy had been killed before his coup, the combined forces of Neo Zeon and Mars Zeon likely would have defeated the EFSF, and then they would have defeated ReZeon even faster than Mars Zeon did canonically. Unless Mars Zeon had some specific reason to oppose Axis/Neo Zeon, I think Haman stood a very good chance of holding on to her victory over the Earth sphere, and the best Char would have been able to do is revive some version of the AEUG with Anaheim's assistance and formed a resistance movement... but considering his own Neo Zeon movement basically decided the colony drops were the right choice, would Char have actually opposed Haman and Neo Zeon?
I'll give you a clear answer. That is between yes and no at the same.
Even so, AEUG has hire junk collectors from Shangri-La Spirit young freedom fighters as Judau Ashta, and Gundam Team. Were just mercenaries.
Meanwhile Roux Louka is the remain member. Since Judau is equally match against Haman's Quebeley of Enhanced ZZ Gundam after tough battles against Zaku 3 Kai and Quin Mantha.
ZZ Gundam Full Armor used of it. It depends the situation of battle just as One Year War which Admiral Revil declare war against Principaity of Zeon lead by Giren Zabi.
Its similar as WW1 and WW2 this kind of happened lots of battle. AEUG vs 1st Neo Zeon lead by Glemmy vs Haman's Axis, its unpredictable.
I can answer the question. Yes, she can. If you played Gundam vs. Zeta Gundam game Zeon storyline with alternate storyline and kept current characters lived (little spoiled killing amuro ray and destroyed Gundam keeps Garma lived) at end when you finish with Haman karn in the alternate end you get to see dozle zabi deam of Mass production of the Big Zam as a armada of them.
Question: Who really manufactured the Gundam Mk-II? Technically, it was made by the Titans, but the MG and RG kits of the AEUG variant have Anaheim Electronics markings on them. Did AE simply decide to take credit after the AEUG stole the three Mk-II units?
Honestly, Neo Zeon lost the First War because they messed with Judau Ashta and literally lost the War because they pissed off 14 years old kid.
Would Kira vs Athrun have gone differently had Kira used the sword or launcher skriker instead of the aile?
Not really, Aile is the most versatile. Athrun was at his best at the "Kira vs Athrun" fight. Launcher Strike is not going to hit anything; Sword would put up a good fight, but gives up on all range. Athrun is a melee master when motivated, proved by Justice feats.
@@mlo009 That's a pretty reasonable assessment. One could argue Kira has a chance of overpowering Athrun in melee with the sword striker since it's been shown anti-ship swords pack more of a punch than beam sabers, but the trade-off in agility would definitely make it harder to land a hit. Both pilots were in a berserker state and didn't seem to focus on defense so as far as which one Kira has the best shot of winning with, I might actually say sword. I don't think Athrun would be thinking clearly enough to capitalize on the range advantage he would have in that matchup
Watching 0083 way back in highschool, I never really fully processed just how devastating Gato's attack on the navel review really was until now. He and his crew really did give Zeon the chance to bounce back in a way that probably wouldn't have been possible otherwise. And it probably all could have been avoided if the Federation hadn't developed a nuke slinger like, as far as I know, they weren't supposed to be doing anyway.
How's this for a question of the week. Could the Federation have captured Solomon base during the One Year War with out using the solar flare system?
I love these videos!! It's got me wondering... what would have happened if Heero k!lled Relena at the dance on episode 4 of gundam wing?
You did a really great and thorough job here, great video. However I think I disagree with a good number of your points, in particular I don't think the nuclear attack at Solomon hurt them too badly. If we look at the bikini atol tests, when the US brought a lot of ships from the war for the sole purpose of being nuked, many of them were still deemed seaworthy after the bomb went off despite the damage. And if we look at the aftermath of the attack on Pearl Harbor, only the USS Arizona and a smaller ship were deemed total losses, and all other ships sunk in the attack were back in action by the end of 44.
So despite heavy losses, I do not think the 100 ships the EFSF lost could be deemed total losses. We do infact hear distress calls from some ships that survived the blast discussing things such as dangerous air loss.
However I think you are spot on with your point on leadership
Is it implied that the Oldsmobile Army took some cues from the Black Hares from advance of Zeta considering how they're able to catch up with most of the federation mobile suits at the time
Question(s) of the week:
why did Earth sphere rely on Helium-3 mined out from Jupiter rathern than on the Moon even after the OYW?
How actually work the control system of a MS?
How good is Gundam:Age when compared to other Gundam Universes?
Also, how Federation form Age was able to hold of for so many years with just Genoace?
I mean, Genoace were SO bad as they were described, but it is diffirence like beetween GM2 and Rick Dias in performance, and they were immiune to most Genoace wepanos. In novels, they are 60mm coil guns and beam dagers, so they could destroy enemy MS, but unitl DOTS rifle, most simply didn't have enough weapon to damaged Vagan MS to deploty on a large scale.
I am yet to see Gundam ZZ/ Double Zeta should it be aired on GundamInfo on RUclips
But since I managed to get a glimpse of Haman back at Gundam Zeta:
Haman’s Neo ZEON might win- IF SHE ISN’T TOO MUCH FULL OF HERSELF- and if she didn’t involve young Mineva Lao Zabi in the fray!!!
*But of course gotta give credit to Haman- because if not for her- we wouldn’t have the Mineva Lao Zabi/Audrey Burne- Vist-Links that we know and we will still know after the events of Gundam Unicorn & Gundam Narrative😁
Trust me, Haman isn’t really full of herself, moreso believe she is the only person she can trust. Because of her terrible upbringing.
I have a question: Will the Crossbone Vanguard able win the war against the Federation, and also what are the domino effect for future UC 100s era ?
The simplest canonical answer is: Yes.
The fleet that went in to take over Axis was the fleet that took the surrender note to Axis, well, not exactly surrender note but close enough. EF wanted to sign a treaty to stop fighting, highly favouring NZ. They got lucky that Glemy toto rebelled and Nahel Argama won, so they became the fleet to take credit.
Also note that the Karaba is anti-Ferderation, so they will not help EF against NZ.
With ZZ being brought up, that's got me thinking, was the ZZ group of pilots just that much better then the group in Zeta, cause the Naheal argama was able to fight against newer machines from Neo zeon, and do better in the same suits from zeta, that struggled, like the Mk-II
Judau is generally considered an better natural/talented pilot and arguably a more powerful NewType than Kamille. Also they didn't have a dude named after a female body part meddling in the decision making.
Did you forget Axis Zeon had very small amount of competent pilots? Their force might appear strong, but as Haman herself admits in Zeta, it doesn't mean much when most of your mobile suits are piloted by total rookies. This situation continues up until the end of ZZ, which is probably why Nahel Argama crew survived the conflict. Not to mention double zeta is slightly overpowered.
Given that the scenario exists in the Gihren's Greed video games, could Zeon have found a way to bounce back and win the One Year War under the rule of Garma Zabi? The setup is this:
1.Garma Zabi suvives the destruction of his Gaw assault carrier, but is critically injured and comatose until the conclusion of Operation Odessa and the Zeon counterattack on Jaburo. Despite knowing he is alive, Gihren still gives his "Garma died a hero" speech in order to rally Zeon's military forces.
2. Garma wakes up and is appalled by what has happened while he is unconscious. Gihren's leadership is called into question and Char is ousted as a traitor to the Principality of Zeon for arranging the condictions leading to Garma's near death. During or just before the Battle of Solomon Degwin Zabi, Garma, and Dozle arrange a meeting with General Revil to discuss a ceasefire.
3. During the negotiations, Girhen launches a coup that removes his father from power while he is away and crowns himself the new sovereign of Zeon with Kycilia as his right hand. Being too old for this shit Degwin names Garma his successor and hands him the mantle of ruler in exile of Zeon. Zeon forces loyal to Garma, Dozle, and Degwin rally to them and the government in exile recieves the support of the Earth Federation to reomve the tyrant Gihren and his supporters from power.
You can rework this however you like, but that is the gist of it.
Would you ever do a video covering the rx 78 2 and gundam Alex hybrid scene in one of the sd gundam specials where they visit the UC timeline
What if Quattro Bajeena gets his Delta Gundam?
I am about to finish watching Z, and i have 2 very big questions:
1) What was the AEUG actual strength at the start of the series? Were they actually capable to challeng the Titans (and to some extent the Federation itself) in a conventional war? Or were they simply a resistance force, their main goal being simply exposing the Titans to the Federation general public and political authorities, with their ships and mobile suits having the sole purpose of defending the colonies from the Titans retaliation?
2) How was it possible that Char stayed at Axis with the Zeon remnants after the OYW, when even a high school kid like Kamille knows that he assassinated the entire Zabi family? It doesn't make sense. There's only two options: either he managed to keep his vendetta a secret, remaining a hero to Zeon loyalists and a wanted war criminal for the Federation and the general public, or the thing became common knowledge and he had to run away right after the battle of A Baoa Qu and stay hidden under the identity of Quattro Bajeena for the whole time. Only the second option works with the plot of Z and AEUG propaganda, as it paints Char as the hero of the spacenoid cause, who also fought against the corrupt Zabi family, the only responsible for the crimes perpetrated by Zeon. This, as i said, makes it impossible for Char to stay at Axis, since he would be immediately executed by Zeon loyalists for being a regicide. Not to mention that him being the son of Zeon Zum Deikun takes any legitimacy away from Mineva's claim to the "throne" of Zeon. I mean, the adult son of the founder of the nation, who is also a charismatic leader, has a bit more legitimacy than the 5 years old grand daughter of a dead usurper. Let's be honest, Geoffrey Baratheon had a better claim to the throne of Westeros than Mineva had to the one of Zeon.
1. AEUG strength was way inferior, relying on stolen MS n ship, also require backing from major corporation. Yeah exposing Titan atrocities to the masses were their main goal.
2. In CDA, char was welcomed by the axis leader, of course some opposed it and planned a mutiny, because char was admired by common soldier. At that time no one knew he was the heir of zeon and he didnt even bother to declare it either. He only use quattro persona when joining AEUG.
It kinda floors me that Monsha, one of the most infamous and memetic pilots in all of UC Gundam, ended up as a drunken cripple hiding out on Mars with Zeon remnants and nobody seems to talk about it or want to see how it happened.
It's much funnier if we never see it.
I have a question regarding Gundam SEED Destiny and that is what if Kira's kidnapping of Cagalli during her wedding caused Orb to cancel their alliance to the Earth Alliance and instead started a full-blown civil war manhunt for Kira and the entire Archangel. How would this affect the events of SEED Destiny and would Kira have gotten away with his actions the same way he did in the anime?
Kira's actions in Yuna's wedding in SEED Destiny can be called out as a war crime so he was quite lucky to have gotten away with only an upset sister.
My future question is since we know some if not most mobile suits have had dangerous O.S.(Operation Systems) like the psycommu or even the NT-D System but between the Exam/Hades system and The Zero system which would be the better choice for pilots to use ?
Psycommu is better choice cuz by itself it only amplify pilot newtype power and relatively harmless, while Hades, Exam, zero system n NTD pretty much make their pilot gone cuckoo
really well done
When you lose control or prosperity is present….start a war.
Appearance wise, what characteristics do you like/look for in a Gundam? Follow up, which Gundams do you consider looking the least Gundam-like?
The large book vs small book meme where the large book is the Neo Zeon War and the small book is "the Neo Zeon War if Glemy hadn't kidnapped Leina"
Kakarot197: "I am the Watcher and I have seen many things from across the Gundam Multiverse."
I’ma simple man, 197 drops a video I watch it
Congratulations on 100k!
I think the reason why we see Char the messed up way he was in CCA is more a symptom of real world Bandai meddling in production of ZZ and then wanting the big financial success of a movie as opposed to a series, like they had with the original MSG compilation movies.
I like to think that if Kamille wasn't a vegetable he would've gone looking for Char and averted such a messed up timeline. I think that Char became so utterly depressed, guilt ridden, and nihilistic because of the end of the Gryps War and feeling like he failed people close to him including leading Kamille down a path that resulted in being crippled.
Char cut himself off from real human connection and stewed in misery to decide that dropping colonies and asteroids was the best course of action.
One of the reasons that Zeta is so special is that we get to see Char as a protagonist. Him becoming the biggest villain of all in CCA never sat right with me.
Damn it Judau!! It was a win win, you should've joined Haman. Together you would've had world peace, Puru one's survival, and your sister back plus a mansion. Hell even Rasara would've lived!!!
Question: If Junius Seven struck the earth whole, how do you think the series would have played out?
Uhh dont mean to be that guy but When are you going to get back to model numbers
I think the real wonder of the Federation is that it managed to survive _despite_ itself, rather than that it lasted as long as it did.
I've started drawing parallels with the late British Empire where 'status quo' was more important than actually improving things (let's face it, Rome went the same way).
Nah, Haman was too far gone to even lead Neo Zeon properly on the long run (so was Char later on too), freaking crazy weirdo(s)
It’s interesting that you bring that up because it correlates to what the owner of the diner had said to Mineva in Gundam unicorn he said that while there may be some individuals that could fight for the good of all people, but he admits that he has been always rather suspicious of those types Char being one of them It’s even further corroborated in Char’s Counterattack when Amuro was taunting him by saying that revolutionaries always have these grand ideas but their aims can be so unrealistic that they will stoop to drastic measures and ultimately these are doomed to fail because both Char and Haman tried to do overly aggressive things, and whether it was through Civil War, underestimating the enemy, or simple hubris, they would always be defeated
Prewatch: No, but she won my heart. The Captain of Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department Special Vehicles Section 2, Division 1.
Post: (I kinda halfassed listened while doing work so I mightve missed some already said stuff)
She could win depending on when Char decides to take action.
But if we considered its just Neo Zeon and Feddies,
Feddies may have advanced technology and advanced MS but they may not have the funds to upgrade their grunt MS.
It's like the Nazi Germany situation where they funded the Panther, King Tigers, and other Wunderwaffes. Sure, they're formidable weapons, but they could've spent the fundings to improve the multitude of problems like fixing the weak transmission system of the Tiger 1 tanks or build more and improve Panzer IVs and other already existing weapon platforms. (I am not advocating Nazism just to be clear).
I am viewing these advanced MS like Hyaku Shikis, Hazels, and etc as imperfect things (even the most advanced military vehicles of today have problems that needs to be brushed).
So even if they are sent to the battlefield, they are probably super nightmarish things to maintain. In addition, Feddies lost a lot of experienced pilots, which could hamper the effectiveness of these advanced MS.
The Gundam series love to show the impressive features of an MS but it also fails to consider how maintaining these MS would be.
If we going by ZZ time, the feddies still use GMIIs, GMIIIs and Nemo, which aren't bad but probably are insufficient to counter Gaza-Cs and Neo Zeon seem to taken a lot of Titan's MSs.
In addition, based on Zeta, Neo Zeon seems to have a good supply of Gaza-Cs, which could show that they probably been working on that model for a good while, which could mean that they are maintainable and replaceable.
Even without the Gaza-Cs, the Zaku IIs (non-Kai ver) are inferior by the time of ZZ when compared to GMIIs, IIIs and Nemos, but they're still formidable as they are modular to situations, easier to maintain, cheaper to produce, and probably easier to train new people.
Also, ammunition. Beam weapons may be expensive to produce, even with mass production, but kinetic weapons have existed for centuries (in UC time). It's just tried and true ammunition. It may not be as effective as beam, but the MS can have constant access to munitions, and they are probably easier to improve on compare to beam weapons (i don't think improved munition is explored in the series as a whole though). It's also probably a logistical nightmare to create beam munitions that meets the standard for a GM beam rifle and a Gundam/Hazel/Hyaku Shiki beam rifle.
It may take a lot of Zakus to beat a Hyaku Shiki or Gundam MKII but, if we factor in pilot skill and numbers, it might just take three veteran Zakus to beat one recruit unlucky enough to pilot the Hyaku Shiki. And that's an expensive equipment lost against cheaper equipment.
I am heavily biased towards the Zaku II as I personally think it's the best MS design ever and my favorite MS ever and I was super happy when the Borjanon series (I know these Zakus are built different) appeared in Turn A gundam but I also think modularity and low cost of the Zaku II is its greatest strength.
If we consider Char's involvement in the probability of Haman's victory against feddies, it will heaviliy depend on the writers: either char will compete with haman for the righteous throne of Zeon as a unifier, or collaborate with haman to defeat a common enemy and then compete for the throne or it ends up being a weird romance thing and they become King and Queen who knows its gundam romance.
Politics is a messy thing and I don't feel like I have a grasp of gundamlitics but I think Haman will have difficulty maintaining control of Neo zeon as a whole.
Char is a massive charismatic guy even to people who never met him. He served extensively during the one year war and has gained wide respect for fighting the white devil many times and lived to tell about it. I don't know if the Zeon population knows but if they do, he also fought to put an end to the Titans, which would be a massive respect boost from the spacenoids. He is also the son of Zeon Zum Deikun and a friend of Garma Zabi who many people probably still respect him for his bravery (and I doubt the populous ever found out that Char betrayed him). With a resume like that, Haman has some really difficult political competition. Her act in zeta is nothing more than to shutdown a competition.
And then there's Minerva Zabi. I am not too familiar with Unicorn stuff (I didn't really pay attention compare to Tomino series) but from what I remember, Minerva has a different mindset from Haman which makes things even more complicated politically. She's well liked as the Daughter of Dozle Zabi who many people respected due to his final stand at Solomon. It's true she's riding on the coattail of her father but she also has a more sympathetic viewpoint where she prefers a peaceful means, which would resonate with zeonists who are tired of constant fighting.
Gundam politics is a pain in the ass.
Haman's fight against the Federation would've been a slog and cost her forces dearly. The AEUG/Karaba wouldn't just roll over for them, especially with Amuro, Bright, and Hayato's leadership along with the plethora of aces like Yuu Kajima and Shin Matsunaga who would've opposed her.
QOTW: What is in your opinion the weakest world government in terms of military in the gundam universe?
im a simp for HAMAN-SAMA but the real thing is if you dont have a gundam you aint wining a thing in gundam lore
So how long could Neo Zeon maintain control of the Earth Sphere? And was a Zeon Civil War inevitable?
How do handheld weapons get power from reactors, when it’s not connected to them (for example the Destinys high energy beam rifle draws power from its deuterion engine)
In Seed, each weapon have a plug that connect to the MS finger, that's why they unable to wield other faction weapon.
UC handheld weapon meanwhile use E-cap thus not powered by the MS reactor.
@@trollinoakenshield9822 ahh that makes a lot more sense, I was mostly talking about seed since UC weapons have E-caps of some equivalent
Maybe if Haman didn't shoot Judau's sister...
In my honest opinion Haman couldn't win. There are a couple of factors that were into play
1. Haman couldn't trust Glemy and that lead Glemy into a rebellion taking along some of the most skilled pilots with him and the the newest mobile suit at the time, leading to a civil war
2. Haman didn't really a long term goal other then destroy the federation. That was something even pointed out in a couple of SRW and Haman will always say she has to destroy the federation and figure out later.
3. Haman didn't install loyalty in her troops. half of them were with her because she was in change not out of loyalty while half of them were loyal.
4. She literary had to use a decoy Mineva to lead. Though it dose to come into question how loyal she was to the Zabi family since a couple SRW and SD Gundam have her loyal to the family while some outright admit she is the true ruler. The mangas were kind of ambiguous on the subject.
There are a couple more but ya there was no way she would of won. Fighting the Federation and fighting a civil wars that was entirely Haman fault.
Short answer: yes. ZZ's ending was a lazy, rushed rehash of the original Gundam's ending. ZZ itself is such a slap in the face to fans of the first two Gundam series.
The naval review is not a coincident event. It is theorized that the Titan founder manipulated the Delaz fleet through Cima to nuke the Naval review so there would be no opposition for the formation of Titan.
Managing secret empire in space isn't the same as keeping Earth occupation.
I wonder have you seen the Orgin One Year War how things go in that timeline?
Haman-sama BANZAI!
Could Haman's Neo Zeon win? Yes.
Could they maintain control for any extended period of time? Probably not. If there's one thing that Zeon in any incarnation is well-known for, it's in-fighting.
Shouldnt we also adress how Neo Zeon in ZZ was portrayed to be filled by amateurs and also Haman not being ruthless as she was before in Gryps when she held meeting with feddie top brass?
Simple question, could the gundam fight work in UC and would it prevent the endless wars?
She won my heart.
Nope... Amuro is still alive. Give him a decent mobile suit, and he'll take out Haman's Neo Zeon single handedly.
"Could Neo Zeon Win the War?"
Judau Ashta: