The Yasaka Shrine Incident of May 2024
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- Опубликовано: 27 июн 2024
- The article that I referenced now seems to be hidden behind a paywall, but here it is:
www.thetimes.com/world/asia/a...
I'm a full-time guide, mostly up in Tohoku (northeast Japan) but I also guide groups up Mt. Fuji in the pre and post season as well as lead normal tours in places like Kyoto, Nara, and Tokyo when contracted.
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Edited by / hernieedits
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Since this has blown up a little in the wake of a link from some Japanese site, I want to be clear: I am deleting comments that are overly racist or just saying "go back to your country." Those are just hurtful and I'd rather not leave them for people to see. I may miss some, but I'm trying to keep this forum as clean (and kind) as possible.
報告：暴言、人種差別的な発言、国に帰れなどのコメントを消します。（それを書いたアカウントをブロックします。）コメントをする前にこのリンクを見てください: note.com/safe_newt9890/n/nbf8dee7663f1
お互いにやさしくしましょう。よろしくお願いします！
The tour guide should have been more polite by speaking in Japanese. He should have been more aware of the sensitivities of the Japanese people. I mean why do you even call yourself a tour guide if you cannot appreciate the local nuances. I can understand how that woman felt having to endure misbehaving tourists throughout the year. I don’t necessarily support what she did but she could have been pushed over the edge just like many of us who feel the same about misbehaving tourists. Perhaps it was not a justifiable response to a simple innocent mistake by someone. I have lived here for 10 years and I am not Japanese. I too feel disgust sometimes to a point of venting my frustration against these misbehaving tourists. These days when I visit a public toilet facility I see discarded rubbish like plastic and soiled tissues, something hardly visible when I first arrived. It’s gotten worse after Japan opened up last year. Now, I hear critics of Japan saying if Japan cannot appreciate tourism it should not open itself to foreign tourists. Now that is an unfair argument. Any host will feel insulted if the guests misbehave. Why should Japan be any different.
My only issue I have is that she did seem to be equipped for the incident, like she was hoping to get a result, and boy did she... She did admit she's been intentionally targetting tourists, which is quite alarming. This is really why I'd rather not go to the crowded parts if I got the chance to go to Japan, because this is more than just the tourists acting out of order, it's the locals too. I get that yes, over-tourism is an issue, but intentionally digging and annoying people to get artificially built up evidence, and then using that evidence to ruin someone's life is just not right. I get the feeling that she was also exploiting it to drive up traffic to her own stuff, which is just wrong.
the article google bought me too also shows another video of a seperate set of tourists vigourisly shaking the bell in an almost agressive manner, so i think this woman maybe was on high alert? I feel bad for the guy kind of but at the same time should he really be working that sort of job? i dont think im educated on the topic enough but i think the gut reaction is not really? and if he was to do it then to be extra considerate of locals
Your last point is the main point. He should be polite and congenial to locals as it's their environment he's making his living from. I'm sure he's been in Japan for a while, but the reality is he is seen as a guest himself, and he should act like one, and also police the behavior of his own customers. It's his apparent lack of humility that seemed to be the main issue.
@@TanukiDigital japanese people need to shut up and behave themselves with foreigners.
there is no such thing as being a 'guest' in any country.
if a foreign person is there they are entitled to all decency and respect that are afford to all people.
In this matter instant though they didn't do anything wrong, a racist japanese women targeted them.
Apparently she goes around harassing and watching tourist and posts about it on social media.
In this case she was already following and watching them closely before they even rang any bells.
her behaviour in the video, by japanese standards of behaviour, was straight up racist abuse of the foreigners.
only one solution for the over tourism issue - Go North Japan, lol. No seriously, govt should ensure the other prefecture's tourism gets promoted equally. as someone who has been to almost all the prefectures I find it hilarious that people just flock to a couple of cities only when there is so much to experience all over the country.
💯
I think its because a lot of the major tourist locations ( Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka ) are constantly promoted, for every like 10 videos I see on yt about Osaka, there would be one random location that any tourist should check out, but since a lot of these are like coined as 'the' place to go then that's where the majority heads for. On the other hand if you've done your due diligence on researching what you really want to visit, there's nothing stopping you :) Went to some major places, but I loved the fact that my homestay host told me things to check out like their festival, or a museum. You should try Nagoya, I thought I could cover the major stuff in a day, lol I'm mistaken. Even if they have deals to help save some yen, the Toyota Museum took almost half of my day xD wasn't able to utilize the bus pass as much, but i'm so glad they integrated these in the business infrastructure. Wouldn't have known about the discounts if the front desk lady didn't say anything.
The problem is that Japan stopped being a unique and singular place and now it's just another destination to people who have no interest in the culture of the country,so those annoying tourists see it like it was some kind of theme park for tourists like Pattaya or Barcelona (my city)
As someone who mainly go to Japan for snow sports I have no shortage of option outside these overhyped cities ☺️
I’m going Tohoku next trip 🥰
The lesson to be learned is don't jump to conclusions which many do. That's the lifeblood of social media.
The real lesson here is X, formerly twitter was a mistake.
The woman was courageous, but should have called the police immediately after being yelled at by the British man. Incidentally, the incident revealed that this British tour guide had been accused of fraud by a client for several years.
Also, this should be a series! We don’t get to hear the “tea” of things happening over there, and your delivery is stress-free 😅
Providing information on relevant scandals could be fun!
It could become it's own segment "Tea time"
This wave of complaints raised at foreigners/tourists is alarming... as someone who is seriously considering language school/Bekka programs in Japan... I am worried about the discomfort or hate I might face. :( I am very, very conscious about my behavior and I was really respectful when I was in Japan, but being a foreigner still worries me. If you have any advice, I'd love to hear it. I am unsure how much of this type of behavior you've faced but it would make for an interesting video. How being foreign and doing something Japanese dislike is a so much more magnified compared if locals do bad things.
I think if you are basically doing your best to be polite and kind, you won't have any problems 99.5% of the time! That said, Tohoku is a lot friendlier than Kansai (in my experience at least).
Japanese here.
Top tier foreigner better than Japanese tourists is who isn't much good at Japanese and try to like our culture humbly.
If you speak well,you are required to have higher manner.😅
Great Video and in my opinion professional summary of the incident and viewpoints. I share your conclusion. In the end we always react based on bottled up emotions from past experiences and in a way are all victims that are overwhelmed and unable to objectively deal with a situation that isolated from unresolved emotions from the past wouldn't actually be problematic.
@@Zasyr well said!
Typical Brits😂 Btw a British tourist was once arrested for trying to break into the Imperial Palace. It was an unprecedented incident Lol
WOW. Just wow.
Typical Brits eh? - I’m a Brit who doesn’t fit this stereotype. Like any nationality, we are not a monolith so don’t tar us all the same brush. When I was in Japan I was on my best behaviour yet I saw tourists from other nations behaving terribly. I won’t mention which nationalities.
Yeah, very good point! We're all people. No nation is a monolith, even the seemingly homogeneous countries like Japan. Individuals everywhere.
Whoa thats so crazy! Are you up Komagatake there? Looks familiar.
@@PeteLeong yup! On Medake for most of this.
@@GoNorthJapan Nice. Thought so. Love it up there.
Love your work Quinny
Hey thanks!
Always good stories from Quinny
The punishment does not fit the crime. Where I live in Mallorca Spain we are also dealing with mass turism and many people are resentful I suppose it can build up and come out in the most inappropriate manner. It's a shame people do not target politicians and make changes to help.
No, I watched the video. The guide was clearly being snarky. You're trying to paint the whole interaction as something else. Also not impressed with how you want to "set aside" the parts where the guide was being inflammatory and unnecessarily confrontational.
I respectfully disagree. The woman was filming and following them around for more than 2 minutes before the parts she posted. They did apologize to her. He was very rude, though it was after she used rude language and obsessively followed him. Then after all this she obsessively posted about him on Twitter and put out a call to others to share it and find his private information and publicize it. And exactly that happened.
If you watch her heavily edited video, it does make the British guy look terrible, and he did really screw up in losing his temper with her. That said, I think with just a touch of compassion and understanding, we can understand how that could happen to anyone. He did apologize initially, but she kept harassing him.
@@GoNorthJapan I'm afraid that is nowhere near convincing.
1. You weren't present during the incident, so everything you say about the events not captured on video is obtained secondhand. If you spoke to the tour guide, obviously he will portray himself in the best light.
2. As the experienced tour guide, it is his job to smooth the waters when conflicts arise with locals. He failed his duty to his clients, put tour guides into disrepute, and fanned the flames of the rude gaijin stereotype it took so long to settle. He should have known better. Frankly, I am surprised you are still taking his side after seeing the video, because it does not paint you in a good light to throw out excuse after excuse on his behalf.
@@purrfekt I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. I wish you the best!
@1:00 You can see at least one person in the blurry, foggy distance wearing red.
There were other hikers on that misty day!
Thanks, for letting me know how this story ascalated :D as I only heard bits of what happened in the beginning in some other videos :)
i love your hair bro
Really? Thanks!
You'd like Jon Ronson's, "So You've Been Publicly Shamed" check it out!
I did love that book!
Thank you so much for sharing this truly important message. I couldn’t help but reflect on some of the ideas brought forth by long-ago media sage Marshall McLuhan (I’m showing my age here!): we are indeed in a global village. And I guess the digital “village” is heir to all the human woes and shortcomings the ancient rural village displayed. It is profoundly regrettable that some tourists (seemingly unconsciously) can slip into a “theme park” mode of behavior - and equally deplorable that a small minority of locals can incite the very worst stripe of inhospitable behavior. Alas, it could happen almost anywhere on this planet now. But thank you for sharing this with us.
I'm glad you mentioned domestic tourism too. that's one thing that gets glossed over. these locations aren't just foreigners, it's domestic as well that contributes to the congestion, increased trash etc. kyoto especially as a cultural heritage site where everyone goes no matter who or where you are from in the country and has always seemed overwhelmed even like 10 yrs ago. however the media isn't going to acknowledge it because fear sells and foreigners are ruining the country gets more clicks than kyoto infrastructure struggles with influx of visitors.
I think for many areas 80% of the tourism is domestic still.
The guy was being such an ass, I don't understand how people can act like that. You can see why people got upset, even people online. Of course the internet always takes everything too far.
Thanks!
Thank you so much!
素直に注意に従わず暴言吐いたガイドが悪いんだろ。
確かに、そのイギリス人の行動は悪かったと思います。だからってアパートの住所と写真が投稿されて、ストーキングされて娘が学校行けなくなるほどバッシングされることではないと思います。
@@GoNorthJapan住所が晒されたのは確かに良くないけど、彼女を責めるようなコメントが多いのはおかしい
彼女のXでの投稿を見ると、かなり心を病んでたように見えました
彼女は恫喝されて、そのまま泣き寝入りしろって事ですか？
それどころか、外国人のアカウントで彼女を責める投稿が沢山ありました
@@user-ok3fj7xu8z それもよくないですね。ただ、そのイギリス人が全然投稿していないです。彼女は一週間ぐらいずっとそのイギリス人について投稿していました。何回も投稿していたし、イギリス人の個人情報とビデを出したことで注目を集めました。
僕はいじめ、バッシングなどSNSでの意地悪のこと絶対しないし、反対しています。犠牲者が仲間でもつながりのない人でも反対です。
@@GoNorthJapan 自分の記憶が正しければ投稿してましたよ。彼の会社のアカウントでずっと彼女に対して訴訟するぞと脅し、全く悪くないという態度をとってました。そして日本在住のイギリス人経営者の方も彼を擁護してました。
そもそも個人情報を出したのは彼女ではなかったと思います
@@user-ok3fj7xu8z 全然彼の投稿の話は聞いていませんでした。何かリンクかスクリーンショットありますか？
Thank you for your video.
In Japan, there has long been a saying that companies are public assets of society.
Conducting business and earning money means that companies are expected to give back to the community, creating a positive cycle of benefits.
Therefore, while tourists are not scrutinized too harshly, when it comes to conducting business and earning money, the expected standard of conduct becomes significantly higher.
She shouldn't have posted the video on social media, but considering that Kyoto has many temples and shrines that need to be treated with care and that even ordinary Japanese people find it complicated, I believe tour guides should be regulated by a permit system.
Just came back from my Japan trip, and yes, I found the tourists very annoying. Lake Kawaguchiko was an abomination, so very overcrowded the Red line bus couldn’t cope. I took the Green line bus instead, and enjoyed a peaceful day around Lake Saiko. The Enoden line was also unbearably crowded, so I didn’t get to see Kamakura this time and just visited Enoshima. But, you are right, Quinlan. Go North! I had the best time ever in Aizuwakamatsu and surrounding area. And I will definitely go further north up your way next visit.
Yeah! I was down by Lake Kawaguchiko recently and it was just unbelievable!! Too bad you didn't get to Kamakura, but Aizuwakamatsu is fantastic! Love that area! Definitely hope you make it up farther north next time!
As long as you don't go on a rampage at the shrine like this English guy and yell "fuck off" at the believing women who have come to pray, you'll be welcome.
0:22 oh, so the average day on the internet 😂
Hah, yeah pretty much!
@@GoNorthJapan 😅
If the guide had admitted his mistake without provoking the woman who warned him, there would not have been a huge uproar.
Without allowing her to provoke him you mean? (If you understand Japanese and watch, she was clearly trying to provoke him and hit the jackpot when she managed to make him lose it.) Anyway- he did act very poorly and was a jerk to that woman. But even still, does this mean he deserves to be doxxed and stalked by Japanese Twitter mobs, have photos posted of him and his apartment online?
@@GoNorthJapan
「If you understand Japanese and watch, she was clearly trying to provoke him and hit the jackpot when she managed to make him lose it.」
Please be honest. Do you really understand what they are saying? I assume you are not fluent in Japanese at least. It's sad that his actions caused harm to his family.
@@AMA00GR Actually I'm totally fluent in Japanese. I've been here for 24 years, and in 2004 passed the highest level of the JLPT... I may have an American accent when I speak, but my comprehension is fine.
@@GoNorthJapanYou do understand that his language is as bad as "fuck off," right? In contrast, she speaks in honorifics. There isn't a Japanese person, not even a yakuza, who would use the word "Omae/Bi*ch" for a woman. （except in an anime.🙄）
And his address is the one he made public when he threatened a lawsuit if she didn't erase the video.
@@shirankedo-ib8uv She did use "omae" for him first in the video. He only switched to rude language after she said that to him. But still, I agree there is no excuse. He should have maintained politeness no matter how rude she was to him. Especially since he was guiding a group. He behaved very badly. I agree with you that his language was unacceptable.
I saw his address and photos released far in advance of any talk of a lawsuit. Do you have any links or screenshots to back up these claims? I'm genuinely interested in the timeline here. I never saw his twitter account or any posts from him. I only saw his side through a newspaper article. As far as I saw, he never responded to the Twitter.
自業自得で草
This guys says basically: "You reap what you sow, lol"
About what I'd expect from Twitter.
確かにその通りだけど、家族がかわいそうだと思います。
Hi, Quinn! 😊
Hi!
The weakness of the Yen is the root cause for over tourism. I’m in Hawaii and it’s way too cheap to do a weekend in Osaka, like $1k RT. Hawaii had similar poorly behaved tourists after covid when LAX-HNL flights were like $500/rt. Now everything is expensive but the trashy tourists are gone & those that appreciate Hawaii will make the effort.
Like it or not we really stand out as foreigners. Because of that we have to be extremely careful of our behaviours. We have to be more cautious than locals because of that. There are drunk salarymen passed out in the street very night in Tokyo but nobody pays attention about them, they are Japanese. I can't count the number of times that someone told me they saw me somewhere away from home. Meaning, people are always watching and now, everyone of them has a camera. That said, the reaction was over the top but in a world of social media, almost any incident can go viral, hopefully, it's for a good reason. In this case, the tourists have gone home and have probably forgotten about it. But the guide may lose his business because of that incident.
Yes this is what I was going to say.
I’ve been living in Japan going on 30 years now and I have to remind myself sometimes that, generally speaking Japanese are extremely tribal.
They will defend one another over a gaijin in nearly all cases.
I ride a bicycle everyday to work, I do worry that I’m going to have a road rage incident from the aggressive, angry and even violent drivers. It would do me absolutely no good to ever confront a bad driver,
Even if I am in the right, because the gaijin will always be wrong-at least in the eyes of other Japanese.
And this story served to remind me well of that point.
sitting on the bamboo fence... why?
I think the guy was just tired. He was in his 70s.
Was a good summary of the events. The dude doesn't deserve to be dragged over the coals, but also it costs nothing to be nice. The dude speaks Japanese, why not just say "sorry that the people didn't know, they made a mistake, I told them and they apologized, please stop following us."
The saddest part is that this sort of stuff gets parroted around as "bad foreigners", which is probably why it became such a mess and a witch hunt. The people I had when I did tours in Japan loved the country, and were so excited to be there and to learn about the culture. I wish Japanese people got to hear more stories like that.
Over tourism doesn't make all Japanese hate foreigners.
Japanese media has lots of TV programs about nice stories with tourists,at the same time a bad news.A bad news is going spreading quickly nowadays.
I want to double check my perception on something. Please tell me I'm wrong if so.
If I am in Japan and go into a shop or approach someone, speaking English, furthermore speaking quickly and in a complex way as if I was in the US or England. I would say that's a bit presumptuous and even a bit rude.
Now, English is a fairly universal second language and is so in Japan. Given that, if I ask someone, "do you speak English" before starting and English conversation, I do not understand how that is rude and I definitely do no see it as racist.
That is most certainly my perspective if a Japanese person is trying to talk to me (or arguing with me) and I am not confident in my Japanese.
Help me understand if this is not the case.
The way you frame it I wouldn't call it racist at all. Maybe not a great idea, but not racist.
Wow! 😵 This sounds like RUclips creator “drama”, much like the Sniper Wolf debacle. She actually got dragged for doxxing. Surprised this hasn’t happened here! But maybe I’m speaking too soon and I should just finish the video 😅
Always assume you are being filmed, and anything you do, say, or write will not disappear, but will be screenshot, recorded, permanently saved, and will be sharable forever, and shared with your most hostile critics. Assume that anyone you encounter will be able to find your home address, and those of your employer, or loved ones. This should have been clear to people since the earliest days of the existence of email and text messaging, but if this is not clear to you now, make sure you operate your life from here on out with this understanding.
Very thoughtful response! I wonder if the tour guide wanted to switch to English so the client who rang the bell too hard could also be involved and apologize and learn, or alternatively if he hoped that switching to English would either make communication easier for himself or so hard for her that she'd back off (if the latter, it really misfired! then again, sound like she wasn't going to be nice anyway)
Ha ha, I bet they wish they had overtourism in Sanriku!
Ahahaha, well maybe not overtourism.. but I do wish we had more people appreciating this gorgeous coast!
Have you forgotten that shrines are places of worship for the Japanese people? And they were only condemned because they did something barbaric on private property. The woman who warned you only put you on sns because you were verbally abusive and insulting. Either you have forgotten that actions come with responsibilities, or you think it is acceptable to insult Japanese people.
I think you're misunderstanding everything. I am not that British guy. I have never even met him. I was talking about the doxxing and stalking he suffered as a result of his rudeness. His wife and child were threatened. If you'd like to talk about religion, I'd love that. I'm passionate about Buddhism and Shinto. I've done 修行 with the 山伏 and have a deep love of Japanese spiritual culture.
@@GoNorthJapan彼の家族が脅迫されたと言うのは本当？彼が同情を引くために嘘を言ってる可能性はないの？証拠を見せて欲しい。捏造ではない、ちゃんとした証拠を。もし仮にそれが本当であれば、弁護士を雇って訴えるべきだ
@@user-tg3ru6sz2q 弁護士を雇っていると新聞に書いています。訴えるとも書いています。
www.thetimes.com/world/asia/article/japanese-hospitality-wears-thin-as-overtourism-takes-toll-r5w85b7qt
僕はこれ以上は知りません。あったこともないイギリス人です。でも彼のアパートに行くツイッターのストーカーが居たというのは本当の話です。ツイッターでその日本人ストーカーが撮ったアパートの写真が見ました。
そうですか。その記者は初めて見ました。彼についてなんとも言えないです。
僕はツイーターを見て、そのハラスメントは事実だと信じています。僕がこのビデオだけでかなり怒られています。そのイギリス人がこの１００万倍でしょう。恐ろしいと思います。
@@GoNorthJapan確かに日本のネットユーザーがやり過ぎな面がある事も事実。だけど、あのガイドも素直に謝罪してれば良かった。あのガイドがインスタで日本人の事を🐒だと侮辱してた事もあなたは知らないでしょ？素直に謝罪し火に油を注ぐような行為をしなければ、ここまで炎上する事もなかったと思います
Appreciate a balanced perspective. ❤
The reality is that if someone is on their first trip to Japan, almost all of them are going to go to Tokyo, Kyoto and probably Osaka, not Tono, Kessenuma and Ofunato -- and so that puts a lot of pressures on the most popular places. I do feel for the locals, but I'm a bit unnerved how tourism (both domestic and international) is increasingly being used as the excuse; when really attention should be pointed towards the leaders and those responsible for provisioning local services. Kyoto has a particularly bad public transport system for a city of its size and visitor numbers but is that really the fault of someone who with their own free will decided to holiday in Japan? Is it the tourists' fault that a locality in Ishikawa spent covid relief money on a giant fiberglass squid or something then provisioning for wider tourism?
Even yesterday some news reports were saying tourism was in part to blame to rising prices of rice, and a shortage, even though last year the headlines were bemoaning another decrease in rice consumption in Japan...Yes some tourists can cause issues, but they are a minority, the wider issue is more that people should be looking at their whole government and system and be asking them why is it they have failed time and time again to revive the Japanese economy since the peak in 1989.
I now live probably 45 minutes away from Nara City and Nara Park, and the contrast between there and where I live is stark, like nobody visits where I live, so I do understand why some locals may be irritated by the sheer number of visitors, especially after experiencing a couple of years of it being "peaceful" during the corona pandemic.
But by constantly raising the specter of tourists instead of looking at the more systemic reasons for some of Japan's problems is ultimately unhelpful to everyone. I could go on, but I won't, all I will say is that some areas of Japan could desperately do with an injection of tourism (domestic and international) to bring people into the less visited parts. However if Japan begins to earn a reputation for being unwelcoming rather than thinking ok, how can we better accommodate this, then that opportunity will be lost and many many small towns in Japan are going to have a sad decline that they don't really deserve.
Thank you, Quinlan, for being a responsible steward by putting this information out there. It's a gentle warning to visiting foreigners as well as foreigners who live and work in foreign countries to be respectful, kind and also have healthy boundaries. I think anyone with a platform that lives in a foreign country should be giving these reminders. It creates accountability for all, keeps everyone safe and lets everyone enjoy their visit/lives.
1. Don't use your physical address for anything you do publicly; and keep it private as much as possible. Use a PO Box, or equivalent.
2. Both parties were in the wrong. Be on your best behavior, especially at culturally sensitive areas, and definitely don't argue with locals when you're in another country. You're don't have the home field advantage.
3. Karens exist all over the world. In this case, she was a Karen-san. lol
While I love the temples in Japan, I never take part in any of the praying and rituals for fear of any disrespect, and I try to always keep a distance from the main halls and the praying spaces. This “commercialization” of praying to gods you have zero faith in has always been very strange to me and while I don’t know what most Japanese think of it, it is very easy to see how that rubs actual believers the wrong way.
I live in a muslim country and there are lots of beautiful picturesque mosque around me, but as someone from a different faith I wouldn’t even dare to enter any of them, the consequence of doing anything wrong will be even more dire. So this treatment of praying space as a “tourist attraction” than anyone can waltz in has never sit well with me.
I agree with you, Quinn! Peoples behavior can be alarming. That’s why I’m selective with my online intake! Take care of your mental health, everyone, and be kind ❤
I totally agree with you, because it is so easy to pick a side (popular assumption) without knowing the whole story in both end and make a clear judgment.
Thank you for your videos 😁😊
Thanks for watching!! And happy you agree!
I agree with you. Saw the video a while ago. The British guide didn't react very professionally and is no victim in this incident. However, the public outrage and the following impact to his family (who are the true victims here) is very concerning and not at all how a civilized society should deal with a dispute like this. On a side note: The misty atmosphere in the video looks very nice. Is that Akita-Komagatake where you filmed? Looks a bit like it judging from the lake in the background.
Yes! I was on Akita Komagatake! Well spotted!
The Japanese Twitter community is notorious for its toxicity (well, the toxicity of Twitter as a whole aside). And while it is obvious that the woman who filmed the guide and kept harassing him, and the doxxers went too far, it is unfortunate that the British guide apparently couldn’t control himself (although I understand that impulsiveness as a reaction of being provoked by that woman.
Unfortunately is also that currently the news media in Japan are talking about foreigners doing this and that wrong almost on a daily basis at the moment. It’s almost a campaign after the recent issues that were caused by a minority of people in a time of overtourism, which is a real shame, because every day I see Japanese people disrespecting the law, by crossing red lights, riding their bike on the sidewalks or on the wrong side of the road, holding umbrellas, texting/being on the phone (I actually called put a woman driving her car this week as she was texting and driving and slaloming on the road as she fas focused on her phone instead of the road) or even drinking alcohol while riding their bikes, not using lights in the dark (both, cyclists and car drivers) and so on. I never see anyone calling them out, let alone see the police do anything about that.
You touched on the theme of a great book about people who made the wrong call in the heat of the moment, like the captain of the Titanic, whose crew were in a lifeboat and were calling for him to jump. He did and survived, but his life was ruined. Sorry I can’t remember the name of the book.
Huh, sounds interesting if you remember the title!
I agree with your analysis. There is definitely more to this episode than is shown in the video. I felt that the guy was reacting to the woman’s use of “omae” in the same way that she was addressing him; none of the Japanese-language comments I have seen about this mention that the woman used”omae” first…
I hadn’t heard about this at all so just going purely on what you’ve said I think agree with you. Even if the guy’s a dickhead stalking and making his family feel unsafe is way over the top. Hope they ease off the guy
I absolutely hate people like that. They start causing trouble and then they pretend to be the victim. So disgusting.
who caused the trouble and who is pretending to be the victim?
@@JackFN_VR64 Said lady in the video who sounds like the most extreme type of Karen to roam the earth in both cases. If someone did something wrong, you tell them, and if they don't do anything to upset you anymore you leave them alone. Not this Karen tho, who said in her mind "I'm gonna get my phone out and start filming because I got beef with the world."
@@adridesu1 She was determined to escalate the situation.
This reminds me of those particular church people who pickets on places and say the most vile thing in the name of their religion. Like we all know they just try to provoke people hard to incite violence so then they can sue people for damage.
Don't defend annoying Christians who destroy other religions. A British man vandalized a shrine and verbally abused a female believer who witnessed and warned him about it. The video shows him spewing outrageous insults. This shrine has been destroyed by this act for so long that we finally know who the culprits are. They have taken steps to restrict visitation to midnight. It is truly disturbing!
Defamation laws in japan is a big deal, I'm surprised he didn't use that against her for affecting his family.
Very likely the court will not side with the gaijin
@@RadenWA I wouldn't be so sure! There are lawyers who specialize in representing foreigners here in Japan, and it sounds like the evidence would very much be in the tour guide's favor. I'd honestly like to see legal action pursued here, as it sounds like it would set a good precedent for other "Karen-sans" who might attempt something similar in the future.
@@Wyrdwad Agreed, but the pace of civil courts in Japan is very very slow.
@@brentsutherland6385 on par with US courts with all the recent commotion as of late due to politics.
When the Japanese media were at the Lawson's site, they waited for ages for foreign tourists to do it before filming. Prior to their filming, it was Japanese tourists that were being a nuisance. A RUclipsr filmed them 😂 I understand their frustration, I truly do, but a firm word is all that is needed and the Japanese media don't help. If the person apologises then it's sorted. There's no need to carry it on and harass them.
Link??
You're correct.
He doesn't deserve this. It's a symptom of an unfortunate part of contemporary culture.
It would be completely annoying to have your city overrun by tourists, but they were granted visas, sold train tickets, hotels, etc. Japan has many rules. Some are common sense and some wouldn't even be understood by some tourists. This is what traveling is about. It's up to the tourist to want to learn and be respectful within common sense, and up to the locals to control their environment and help teach.
Kyoto-jūin can be proud even with other Japanese. It's a bit of a city planning problem and a bit of a cultural challenge with scaling, growing, and adapting to the travelers who are not familiar with how things work there.
Of course being blatantly disrespectful and oblivious to your environment is unacceptable anywhere.
thank you for posting.
1. Japan is now in a heightened state due to overtourism. feelings are raw, many japanese are starting to feel the frustration. Lawsons, the bridge in fujinomiya, all putting up fences etc
2. During this sensitive period, pack mentality and mob mentality is very real
3. As foreigners, always lie low, keep your cool,and in dealing with Karens, learn to ignore and walk away. If you lose your temper in a foreign land, you lose the battle.
Always be careful of your surroundings in Japan and be kind. Never forget that you're in a highly indoctrinated society and if you deviate there are serious consequences for foreigners.
Japan is a truly wonderful country for tourists, and I am sad to hear such bad behaviours coming from locals and tourists alike.
If there's anything I can say, it's just that be mindful of local cultures and be empathetic, if your homeland is being treated the same way how will you feel?
I live in a country that is also heavily reliant on tourists, and certainly can understand the Japanese POV, but for sure we can always communicate better without tempers flaring, and I hope everyone can do that, and also help prevent that when they have the opportunity to tour other countries, not just Japan.
We are all sharing this wonderful world together after all.
When I was living in Kyoto in the early 90s, the worst tourists were the Japanese high school students on their school trips. Not enough teachers to watch all of them. Loud, obnoxious and left garbage all over the place.
You just making up stories bro !
@@adambane1719 Really? What part? I was on the JET Programme in Kyoto from 1989-1991 and then on a working holiday visa in 1992.
@@DadCanJapan ...and you 'like' your own comments too.... ffs !
@@adambane1719 Er no. You are making a lot of assumptions about me. What did I do to piss you off?
@@DadCanJapan Your foul inaccurate description of Japanese children. Get a life mate !
This was really interesting and very well told! Definitely an interesting situation, and a great example of a lack of context on social media - nothing new sadly. Also, while I totally understand that it's incorrect to ring the shrine's bell strongly, it was an older woman I think you said? I doubt she was doing it ridiculously strongly or in way that seems to cause harm, so it's bizarre to react that badly to it. Imagine if people followed and harassed tourists who get in the way of the guards in London (though I guess the guards have their own way of dealing with that!).
Great video, interesting to think about!
What is this British thing of shaking shrine bells like that though? Is it supposed to be funny??
I think it was more a mindless act with very little thought gone into it. Sad that it blew up the way it did. Unfortunate for all parties.
I never do that when visiting shrines or temples.
À few days ago I canceled my Kyoto stay to avoid over tourism, seems I chose well
yep...always stay home and and so zero problems for poor Nihon that makes billions of 💰from this bad tourists 🙈🙉🙊💩😉🤗😁😂🤣
Yeah, there are so many hidden gems in Japan that you can discover once you get off the beaten path!
I happen to agree with you Quinlan. I did think the man could have handled things better by ignoring the woman and leaving the shrine once apologising for the overly loud bell ringing (which is easy for me to say as I'm in the comfort of my home and not responsible for guiding a group of guests) however from the first time I saw the video it struck me that the woman wanted to continue and escalate the dispute. The online reaction/doxing is of course grotesque. I'm curious; were there significant numbers of Japanese people arguing against people harassing the tour guide even if they might have disagreed with his behaviour?
Over-tourism is a problem in many places and does raise strong feelings. Those tensions are of course also exploited by people with a xenophobic mindset, in many countries including my own.
You show a huge respect for and interest in the culture of Japanese society in all your videos so I can only assume that rubs off on the people who choose you to guide them. On a separate issue (well it might be related in some way to over tourism I don't know) I heard there were some deaths on Mount Fuji recently including that of a guide - when I first heard the news I thought of you and I wont deny I had a moment or two of irrational anxiety until realising none of those harmed were you. Take good care of yourself Quinlan even total strangers like me half way around the world care for your wellbeing!
On Twitter I didn't see Japanese arguing against the woman who posted, but there were hundreds of replies and I didn't read that many of them...
Yeah- I know someone that was on Fuji watching as they pulled out the first body. Really tragic. I think the 3 bodies they found after the first had been there for a couple months or more...
They did not ring the bell; it had been destroyed by their actions. The man who verbally abused the female believer is probably one of the culprits. If you can't understand the anger over the destruction of religious facilities of other faiths, imagine someone destroying a cross next to people praying in a church. In recent years, there have been frequent acts of vandalism and arson against shrines and temples. Should they lock the gates like churches and prohibit entry to non-believers, or charge an admission fee?
By the way, this English tour guide man is committing fraud by accepting money from his clients and then failing to show up at the designated location. In the reviews of this tour guide, there are several warnings from travelers to not use him because he is a scam.
Always two sides to a story and the truth can be somewhere in the middle.
Great video Q, a well balanced assessment of what happened. Both parties acted out of line at the time, there’s no denying that, but what came next was just incredibly sad. An embarrassing reflection of humanity at its worst. Nobody deserves to be put through what the guide and his family were, especially over something so petty. Well, I guess lessons were learnt on all sides.
Thanks! Yeah, it is really sad all around.
Hi Quinlan yes it's over population & the Japanese people r very proud & I respect that the harassment may have gone too far though but if u c what it's like in Australia a town in QLD - Noosa , if Uve heard of it is totally over populated & now crime has increased & is slowly destroying the place I've known since the early 80"s sad story of yours but it's the way the world has become 😢
Hi! Sorry to hear about that town, sounds really sad..
Oh my .. totally agreed with you Quinlan
まず日本語で発信しましょう。誤情報を発信するのはやめてください。
そうですね！このビデオを理解せずにコメントするのはおかしいですね。
@@GoNorthJapan 何を理解できていないのかを日本語で発信してください。お願いします。
@@DenkiRabbit このチャンネルは海外向けです。国内向けのチャンネルたくさんありますので、そこでお願いします！
@@GoNorthJapan 日本語を理解できない海外の方に誤情報が伝わるのが問題だと思っています。あのイギリス人ガイドの個人情報などの晒し行為は私も良く無いと思っています。しかしながら、ガイドが現地の住人とトラブルを起こした場合、せめて翌日にでも会社として謝罪すればコレほど炎上する事も無かったと思っています。この問題は日本の宗教施設での振る舞いに対して起こった事件です。海外向けや国内向けなどの区別は無いと思っています。
@@DenkiRabbit あ！僕も国内向けのビデオあります！どうぞ！
ruclips.net/video/k5Jf8QdyNuw/видео.html
Something similar just happened in America, where a woman on a plane filmed an alleged affair of a stranger, posted it online and her audience informed his wife. The lives of his wife and children are ruined as a result.
These types of actions should have repercussions. You shouldn't be able to ruin people's lives/livelihoods/relationships over a 90 second clip. Especially inciting violence towards someone.
Her actions could affect the victim's mental health for the rest of their lives.
Unfortunately, the guide was a victim of Kyoto's anger/resentment towards over tourism. As you mentioned, the woman is clearly looking for a fight and fuel to rile up people's already stretched emotions.
imo both parties might have overstep boundaries but social media blown it up real bad (she obviously farming engagement off it)
when I was in Ginza during 2017, there is a big boom of China tourist
some restaurants staffs actually ask if I'm from China, luckily I flash my malaysia passport.
they quickly usher me in while a tour bus of China tourist just pull up opposite of the road... I think they ban China tourist for being messy, loud & rowdy
🤔🤔日本で中国人を差別するなんて聞いたことないな。多分あなたがそう思っただけだよ
本当ですか？日本では中国人に対する人種差別が激しいですよ！何回も見ているし、聞いてるし。中国人うるさい、中国人嫌いなど何回も聞いています。韓国人に対する差別も多いです。驚くほどです。まぁ、どこの国でも人種差別ありますよ。日本が悪いと言いていません。ただ、中国人に対する差別は間違いなく多いです。
@@GoNorthJapan 嫌いといえば差別ですか？うるさいのもマナーが悪いのも日本人は嫌います。日本ではどんな人種も同じです。
この度、神聖な神社での行為はあなた方の国ではどう扱われますか？キリスト教の教会で破壊活動されても笑って許しますか？イスラムでモスク破壊活動を行えばどうなりますか？
韓国人は日本でそういった活動を山のようにしています、毛嫌いする日本人は沢山いますよ。
中国人はこの度、靖国神社でTOILETと落書きをして小便をした。その動画をSNSで投稿し多数の共感を得ました。
日本人だって怒ります。笑って許す優しい国の人間だと思っているのなら侮るのも大概にしたほうがよろしいかと
日本の神道はキリスト教やイスラム教と比べて下ですか？だから何をしても許されますか？それが差別です。
@@kulesu1129 あれ? なんでそう思いますか? 神道大好きですよ。山伏と修行しているし。そういう印象を与えること全然言っていない。
外人だからでしょう？？人種差別してるのは誰でしょう?
My impression is that the situation has warped into something different. The person seems to be reveling in the attention, especially now that the story has been picked up by major outlets.
Yes, definitely.
This is your call to block particularly vocal members of gaijin twitter
That certain maiko San is going to go on a rant about this video, I feel she goes out of her way to be "offended"
Someone must have tweeted about this video a few hours ago. Suddenly got about 20 thumbs down and a few Japanese commenters. I wonder if she just found it! But I feel like the Japanese commenters didn't understand what I was saying, given that my English is kind of fast.. I want to believe they wouldn't necessarily disagree if they understood the nuance I was going for. But probably I'm just naive. Anyway, I'm not afraid to block if people are just cruel.
Out of respect for her age I would avoid talking about the japanese lady involved , still there are civilized ways to point out a mistake after all we are human beings and we do mistakes no matter how hard we try to avoid them . As for the rest of the japanese people that reached the point of harassing that British person , I don't think they even deserve our condemnation , they are just a disgrace for the human race .
You kept saying he was a bit of a dick ( you said this about 5 times) but I think you’re being harsh yourself.
He was being harassed and became exasperated. People still have a right to stick up for themselves, especially when dealing with people like this. It seems your only sticking up for the guy due to the terrible outcome. I’d stick up for him even if he weren’t doxed etc.
As for the person who shouted about sitting on the fence, that was also rude and should have been handled more indiscreetly.
You can’t let people run all over you, it’s a slippery slope.
Totally agree. I watched that video and you can see the tour guide turning and pleading with the other Japanese bystanders in the area for some help or sympathy. It was only when she rudely referred to him as "Omae" that he finally lost it. The stupid Japanese nationalists who piled onto him never seem to address that point. They do love to pretend that he was asking her if she spoke English because it was some sort of racist act, when obviously to any English-speaker who watched it was because Japanese is not his native language and he could better explain the situation in English.
In retrospect I think you are correct. Since posting the video I was given a lot more information about the incident, and shown some text messages including the British guy's account of the events. I was too harsh on him. Just the heavily edited video did make him look bad, but that's what it was, a heavily edited video that intentionally tried to strip away some of the context.
@@GoNorthJapan It’s a really tough topic and you’re a braver man that I for tackling it.
It is a scary thought and I feel for the guy too, especially his family. I guarantee you everyone’s had a nasty 90 sec moment in their life, or just done something out of the heat of the moment that you instantly regret. To have that immortalized and plastered all over the internet for unbridled ridicule would be enough to drive anyone crazy. I try to teach my family that if someone’s recording you, it’s never for anything good..
Seems like typical engagement bait that turns into a pile on. There were many examples of that in Jon Ronson's "So You've Been Publicly Shamed". That was written about 2014 era social media and I'd like to think general media literacy has risen to the level where we collectively can more readily avoid recreational outrage. My take away from the book is if you don't have something constructive to say that wasn't already said then you probably shouldn't. It will give less oxygen to attention seeking people who want to instigate a witch hunt to feel relevant
That was a great book! I also really like his podcast, Things Fell Apart!
Just goes to show that being doxxed that way is not just a Communist thing they do in China, it's a cultural thing that is done within East Asia in general.
Karens have to be Karens, even in Japan.
How is "Do you speak English" racist? I see no correlation between a person's race and their ability (or inability) to speak English.
Agreed! I think some people are getting overly sensitive recently.
@@GoNorthJapan Sensitivity is awareness of things that are there (not everyone can see, 'cause we're all wired differently). It doesn't mean being illogical, blowing things out of proportion and/or making things personal that aren't personal, which seems to be happening here. But I understand what you mean. :)
One thing that's not, to an American, right about Japanese defamation laws is it's not even an argument about the truth. That Internet troll 'defamed' him and hurt his family, that should make her hella liable for the doxxin.
I've seen the clips and well, I don't speak Japanese, so it's hard for me to judge how rude the interaction really was. To me it looks like both sides behaved badly at least a few times. If tourists are misbehaving (whether knowingly or not), it's fine to inform or warn them, of course... but to keep following them with a camera while berating them is just weird, no matter the country. At least in the second video, they had apologized and were on the way out already - she was looking to escalate and provoke them further and got exactly what she wanted. At least that's what it looks like to me (also looking at her Twitter feed). And yeah, even if he was being rude, disrespectful or even insulting - he doesn't deserve to be stalked and harassed at his home, nor does his family. If he did something illegal, sue him or get the police involved. Otherwise, leave the guy alone. Maybe if there's a long established history of him acting like an a-hole, but starting a crusade and ruining his life based on 1-2 minutes of video without the full context of the entire interaction between them is insane to me.
I agree.
Just need to be careful not to get rage baited. That woman filming was just waiting for that moment.
Even when being confronted, always be respectful. Never raise your voice. Always assume you're being watched and being recorded and any part could easily be misrepresented.
Solid advice.
All sides were in the wrong... but nobody deserves lasting punishment for simply being rude. I agree with your assessment.
The Old Woman harnessed resentment against rude tourists... The Japanese Internet pile on is very scarey stuff...
How is Doxxing not illegal in Japan?
Again Japan shows us its inability to draft common sense laws and basic protections.
Genuinely a shame.
Doxxing is a fairly broad term, and isn't even illegal in the US. It's not illegal to film someone. And most types of doxxing is done anonymously leaving you with no one to actually punish for it. It is also a fairly new thing still and isn't exactly easy to just draft "common sense" laws around it. King of weird how you try to single out Japan with this "again" crap.
In Japan, fault, or even cause, is almost always ignored when it is the person at fault.
Unless it is a very excessive act (at a life-threatening stage).
The security in Japan is based on the fact that people are "watched.
The "seen" is "God, Buddha, and man.
The foreign guide was the source of all these problems.
If he had any respect for Japan, its culture, and others, this problem would not have happened.
She is not Karen.
「Isn't that going too far?"」
「No. He was punished correctly in Japan.」😉👌
After listening to the story. He was wrong but they already apologized at the shrine. But she was being so rude. But on a different matter would it have helped if he went to the police for some help? What can foreigners do in that situation? If we are ones to be harassed by an unpleasant person?
That's a really good question. I think the best thing he could have done was after apologizing (like he did before the video she posted), is just ignore her and not engage. Just leaving the shrine and letting her follow them without reacting would have been safest. But in the heat of the moment, it's hard to know what to do of course.
The tourist who caused the issue acknowledged their fault and apologized. There is some measure of the guide being responsible for their group, but accidents will happen. That's just how people are. The lady took things WAY too far. And it was a bad look for the guide to ask her to speak English, but he was probably flustered by that point and may have been having trouble remembering Japanese to speak it. It's a hard language. It def doesnt warrent the continued harassment and nothing ever warrents doxxing.
I will not go to Kyoto, I feel like they are looking to dislike us. Getting tired of it. I want to be in the countryside, real tours small islands with ferry boats, also Beppu island and Onsens , 90 year old women pearl divers. By the way in the cities I had to get the police to get a taxi to take me, I am white and they just don’t want us. Another time in Asakusa in the pouring rain I had many taxis pass me. So now I take photos of them. Also ha, the won’t sit next to you on the train, fine. Why not take a cheap bus ride to Fuji and no dumb convince store? Sorry I am not a writer, I am a retired tourist , and remember there are better areas than the crowded unkind ones.
not a fan of the open mouth thumb nails :*(
She accused them of acting very poorly at the shrine, yet not a shred of evidence of that has been released. She edited in another video of an Asian man ringing the bell very wildly. The only video that was released was of her harassing and haranguing the tourists until the tour guide finally snapped. He was politely asking her to leave them alone the entire time and asked her if she spoke English probably because it would be easier for him to explain to her in his native language. He only got angry when she used the very rude tern "Omae" to him first. This lady is a supposed nationalist and she regularly targets foreigners and tourists for views. He should really sue her for this because there are laws against "誹謗中傷" or Cyber-bullying/Defamation.
Japanese “Karen” for sure. Poor guy.
Kyoto people are PARTICULARLY rude. I understand that overtourism has probably made it worse, but the way Kyoto people verbally attack you is something I've never experienced anywhere else in Japan. And I'm Japanese haha! I won't be going back to Kyoto any time soon. Great video as always!