Thanks, always hoping this is useful to someone. Of course results will vary based on your motors and props, but it’s a good base line for folks. I’ll be doing a follow up with 1300kv motors and some lighter 18650 packs, so stay tuned. Appreciate the comment and support, cheers!
@@joloaseniro that’s a tricky question, lower is generally more efficient, but you’d have to find a balance between performance & efficiency. So it really depends on your Goal/Use, Motor Size, Battery Type, & approximate AUW.
Molicel P42a 21700 Cells have changed the hobby for me. Especially fixed wings, but with 7" inchers blowing up, the more the merrier! And my cars, goggles, and Zorro also feel that Molicel love! Thanks for this great video!
Yea, Molicel even released newer P45b and P28b cells this year which are a nice little improvement. Thanks for watching and commenting, appreciate the support. Cheers!
By far best video out there. Thank you for your hard work on that. After building many smaller quads and some wings finally building 7" with 2807 1500kv. Hoping that I can run 4s and 6s DIY Li-Ions, 5 inch packs in parallel and also fixed wing bigger LiPos. This answered all my questions. Thanks again - awesome stuff 👍👏
By far the best comment out there! I do put a ton of effort into these videos, and so I appreciate the kind words, cheers! One random tip when making these packs: Check the voltage of each cell to make sure they are about the same before assembling.
This comment is Very much appreciated. I’m always testing things and then put in a ton of effort trying to share my tests with folks. So it’s nice to receive comments and support like this. Check out my other video and Stay tuned, cheers!
Great to hear, thanks. I’ll post a follow up at some point because I’ve recently started made some 18650 6s2p packs and really like them. Also I got some 1300kv motors so we’ll see how much more efficient they are compared to my 1500kv. Stay tuned, cheers!
Thanks I appreciate that comment. I spend so much time making these videos, but it’s because I have a vision of what I want to present and how I want it to look; which turns into weeks of filming and editing... So it’s nice to hear when people appreciate the effort, stay tuned, cheers!
Hey thanks, appreciate the comment! It’s a lot of fun experimenting with different battery setups and you can save a lot by making them. Stay tuned for more and good luck with your build, cheers!
The best comparison video format. Love how the info is laid out on the screen. Excellent! The font size is just perfect even when viewing the video on a phone.
Thank you for the feedback and support! I’m always playing with font size and layout to try and make it readable so that’s good to hear. Stay tuned for more, cheers!
That’s an interesting idea, with these 21700 cells you’d have 12000mAh and could fly forever! I’ll put it on the list of ideas, thanks for watching and sharing! Stay tuned, cheers!
But isn't the amp rating gonna be lower? BTW I'm very interested about doing mountain surfing but with LR 5 inch ..how different my experience gonna be?
Excellent comparison, I have many 1P packs and they do struggle when you need to get moving quickly, even the 21700s. Good to see some usable data displayed.
You can build a simple parallel connector with 3 XT60s, then you can run a couple packs together in 2p. I highly recommend trying it as you’ll double capacity, double Amp output max and reduce voltage sag! Thanks for watching, stay tuned, cheers!
Awesome flights man. HDZero looks breathtaking... And OSD!!! Also I don't know why it's so different, I built a 6s1p liion pack with p42a molicels and with 3850mah drawn on a chill flight (average speed 62kph) I was in the air for 18 min and covered 18.7km. My setup is a iflight titan dc7, emax ecoii 2807 1500kv (same as yours) AUW is 1150g with a hero 7 black.
Thanks man, appreciate the comment and support. Yea HDZero is great, really glad to be part of the evolution this year, its been a great system for mountain cruising here in Norway. It does seem you’re getting better flight time than me, but I’ll have to look back at the footage/do another test to confirm. Seems our setups are extremely similar so it’ll be interesting to see. Thanks for checking out the video, I’ll let you know if I can match your flight time and distance. Cheers!
@@NicholasLubbe yea, Norway is an incredible place, especially for FPV. I’m technically American, but moved here because it’s so great for FPV… haha! Just kidding, but it’s certainly a pleasant bonus of moving here.
Thanks Noel. Yup still snow, these tests were filmed at various times, but honestly parts of the mountains have snow year round here. Appreciate the comment! Cheers!
Thanks you for noticing the effort. These videos take forever to make but I want them to be useful, and also hopefully entertaining. Appreciate the support, cheers!
Did you solder or spot weld? If you soldered you might be able to pull 50A for a few seconds with no issues, likely you’ll get a ton of voltage sag though. Doing that a lot will reduce the life of the cells… I’ve noticed that one cell, (the one hooked to the negative terminal I think) wears out quicker than the rest on a couple of my packs from abuse. If you spot welded the Nickel strips/weld will quickly overheat and create a ton of resistance, so pushing the current (Amp draw) hard will be more of an issue. Hope that helps, thanks for checking out the channel, cheers!
I soldered it. Oh, that's great to know! I didn't know that what I did was better. WOOHOO! The lipo battery is for my 7 inch which I cruised at 25A-30A only. Thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate it a lot! :)
@@neilfpv yea spot welding is easier, cleaner, safer, more professional… but Nickel has higher resistance, and the Nickel tabs used are usually too thin. You’ll often hear people complain that their li-ion packs are really hot! Or caught fire, or have terrible voltage sag… all these issue stem from poor cell connections. It’s a huge debate, but I’ve always argued the benefits of soldering copper vs welding nickel. Fun Fact: Nickel can be “welded” because it’s electrical resistance is high enough to melt the metal. Copper can not be welded because it transfers electricity so well. That should be the main argument. Haha cheers!
Hey, great video, but I think I found a small error at 7:17. All 3 setups show exactly the same amp usage down to a ma, even though in the osd you can see different values. Is this on purpose, did I miss something? Anyways apart from that, for sure the best and most in depth analysis I got to date!
So the reason is because I adjusted the totals to account for the mAh used during setup. (Pre-flight Checks, acquiring GPS, etc.) Adjustments we’re 225mAh from the Top Left, 52mAh from the Top Right, and 448mAh from the Bottom. If you check back at the start when I arm and takeoff you’ll see I started with these totals. There is a small note about this at the end of the test, but I should have made this clearer. I was trying to be accurate… Happy to see you were paying attention though, thanks for watching, cheers!!
Great work!!! Hope to see more videos about long range flights on hdzero, nature amazing on your place))) Ps: about battery s: people usually dispute about 4s 2400kv and 6s 1700kv setups, do they have equal power and flight time)))
Power output aside, the reason 6s is more efficient aka more flight time is because the overall amperage for a given wattage is less, thermal loss goes down bringing efficiency up. Aside from that, even running a 4s on a 1700kv motor, the voltage sag is less, throttle is far more responsive and sharper (less power on 4s but far more controllability than 4s w 2400kv), and on 6s it gives that and far more motor torque.
I don’t really know for sure, always a lot of variables… I’d have to build a proper test setup to find out. I’m working on some more neat HDZero videos now, so stay tuned and thanks for the comment, cheers!
Great stuff, looking forward to seeing how the 6S 18650 packs perform. I'm going to be building a 7" long-range cruiser this summer and making my own 6s2p packs, but haven't decided whether to go with 18650s or 21700s.
Yea, most my long-range flights are under 15km so the 8000mAh packs aren’t really necessary and add a few hundred grams, so I’m excited to test out the lighter weight 18650 packs. Stay tuned and thanks for the support, cheers!
Really thorough data & presentation. Very impressive what you've done here. Great work! I fly 4S lipo & get pretty good range/time/efficiency on my 8" here in Alaska, but I'm always wondering about bigger range you know! Although I get more & more nervous the further out I get. Maybe if I were rich I wouldn't worry about it so much!
Really appreciate the comment. This video took some effort and it’s really such a specific niche topic… but as with all my videos, I was curious and figured I’d share my findings. Increasing range, flight time, cruising speed, and exploring new areas is what it’s all about. The fear and anxiety we get during the flight is what makes it so exciting! Good Antennas, GPS Rescue, Self-powered Buzzers, and Telemetry Logging are all key to improving recovery of a lost quad… but sometimes, in my case at least, climbing gear would be necessary. Haha! Anyway, long response, but I appreciate the comment, happy to answer any questions, and curious to hear about your new records. Stay tuned, cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy So it looks like flying slower saves a bit of power...that makes sense. I've gone just over 5 miles out with my set-up. Don't really need more than that.
I build some Chimera 7 by myself for Long Range cruising stuff. Together with DIY 6S1P Li Ion Molicel P42A / 4000mAh you get good flight time and for Fun you can use 6S Lipos around 3300mAh. I think Li Ion in 6S2P is too much weight. So this year I will swap out my 6S FC+ESC and try 8S. More Voltage means less current and more energie than 6S but only 2 cells more in one Pack. So i hope i can gain more flight time.
Nice, appreciate the comment. I recently made a 5200mAh 6s2p pack using Molicel p26a 18650 cells and really like it, weighs 300g less than my 8000mah pack and fits the quad better. I still fly 12-13km with it which covers most flights for me. Curious to hear how 8s works for you. Cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy The Molicel P28A looks very promising. 2800mAh / 35A discharge and only 46g each. So a 6S2P Pack of these weight roughly the same as 8S1P P42A. Both Packs have the same amount of energy 124Wh. But tue 6S2P will delivers more current. Thanks for sharing you Infos to us. I appreciate your work!
Thanks appreciate the comment. I recently made a 5200mAh 6s2p pack using Molicel p26a 18650 cells and really like it, weighs 300g less than my 8000mah pack and fits the quad better. I can still fly 12-13km with it which covers most flights for me.
Hey thanks for watching, I appreciate the comment. It’s fun to experiment with setups and I’ll always to try share my tests with the community. Cheers!
Interesting comparision, so the larger but heavier 6s pack doesn't really increase your flight time but gives you better performance. But why are you running such low pitch props? Shouldn't high pitch props be more efficient?
Given its 7 inch, 3.5 pitch is reasonable and no higher pitch props aren't more efficient it's the other way around. Reason being that the motor is essentially in a 'lower gear'. We'd think it would make it go slower but to a point it doesn't, at least not noticeably. Reason being is that the motor has the ability to spin closer to it's max actual rpm all while using less current, making it more efficient. Motors never reach their max capable rpm with props on anyways so they make up for the headroom.
I don't understand why mine is so different, running same p42a 4200mAH 6s homemade pack on my DC7 with exact same motors, AUW 1150g, I was in the air for 18min and covered 18.7km, average speed 62kph
Seems to be the case, but there’s a lot of variables. I was running 3.5 pitch props for efficiency but have a bunch of different props I’ll be comparing in an upcoming video so stay tuned. Higher pitch seems to “burn more fuel” but we’ll try to do some real side by side tests to find out for sure. Thanks for watching and commenting, cheers!
Great comparison “Cowboy” I took a few screen shots to study your stats…very interesting 6s always wins eh! I’m still waiting for a Auline 3300mah 6s to arrive for my Chimera 7”.. haven’t even considered Li-on yet Keep up the good work … beautiful place to fly 😊👍
Thanks man always appreciate the comments and support! It’s seems 4s could be beneficial if/when you’re cruising gently in flat terrain. For that situation the reduced weight of the 4s outweighs the increased power of the 6s. A really good 4s application with be with wings I bet.
GepRc 7" here. Just made my first 6s, 4000mAh 21700 li-ion pack (Samsung 40T cells). It's 456g. My 5000 mAh, 6S lipo is 790g. I'm gonna make a bunch of these things. I can get 60% more capacity for 12% more weight in a 2P setup... it's a no-brainer. Li-ion is the way to go for 7" quads. The only time i'd go with a lipo is if i really feel the need to thrash it for 3 minutes. Then, i'd use a 2200 mah, high-C rating lipo for mad acro.
Yup, agreed. I fly almost exclusively Li-Ion setups. My new favorite battery is actually a 5200mAh 6S2P made with Molicel P26a 18650 cells. Its 300g lighter than the 6S2P 21700 packs, and physically more compact as well. Great for shorter faster runs, and I still get 13km round trips flying up to the mountains. I’ll do a follow up video at some point, Molicel also has P28 (2800mAh) cells, but I couldn’t find them here in Norway… Anyways thanks for watching and commenting, stay tuned cheers!
Haha, I love you left the battery juggling in at the beginning 🤣 Great tests and video as always, very well done. I use a Molicel 6s2p 8.4Ah, and a Samsung 6s2p 8Ah for my long range flights, but mine has the 1300kv motors, and get a very similar time using either of them, around 20 minutes cruising at 80-90kph. My overall weight with these packs is 1700g. This is using the Dal 7056c, and more recently the HQProp 7x4.5x3 composite props.
Yea thought the opening was pretty funny… 😄 appreciate the comment. I recently tried/started using the HQ J75 props based on a suggest you made about the Dal 7056 and man what a beast! So much power and control, and I can hear it miles away. Haha! I’ll be working on a propeller comparison soon using 4-5 different 7” props, should be interesting. Cheers Kev!
great comparisons - the challenge is always what batteries do I have on hand that are performing well for me today - I run both 4s and 6s on some of my quads and it isnt always clear what batteries perform best under what flying conditions - if I know its NOT going to be windy some 4s seem to work well - if I need the juice 6s is great to have on hand - flight times between 4s/6s always seem comparable - weight of 6s offsets the gains generally - but 6s hands down flies "juicy-er"
Thank you, and very well said. Your exactly right, the two packs seem pretty comparable except the 6s does feel a whole lot “juicy-er” which inspires more confidence as well. It’s nice to know you can “pull up” at the last second. I’ve been testing these J75 props recently and they are fast and loud beasts with the 6s pack, a lot of fun!
Very helpful video - thank you! Production quality with visuals is top notch. Are you still planning on doing a comparison with the 18650 Molicel P28A?
Thanks, I put a lot of effort into the “production”, so I’m always happy to hear when people appreciate it. I actually just made an 5200mAh 18650 6s2p pack using Molicel P26A cells which handles up to 70A. It’s a really nice addition to the larger 21700 packs, both as it’s 300g lighter and it’s also smaller in size so fits nicer. The flys noticeably lighter, uses less Amps, and feels more agile and quick. I’ve gotten 13km (8miles) of fast cruising from it, so it works great for most flights. I have not yet done an proper comparison to the bigger 21700 packs, but will try to do a follow up soon. Thanks for watching, stay tuned, cheers!
this is a great test thanks dude. It doesn't seem to me that the 6s2p is a whole lot better than the 4s2p? I guess weight has something to do with it, and also I've heard that the lower voltage is more efficient due to less heat loss...however in your case you are keeping the motor kv stable with different voltages which will mean lower rpm.
@@SupaflyFPV absolutely! For slower long-range flights 4s setups seem to outperform due to the lower weight. 6s just reduces voltage sag and is better for higher speed or recovering from a dive. I did an updated test a few months back that’s worth checking out. (Long Range FPV Battery Testing DJI | 30+ Minute Flight Time | 18650 vs. 21700 ruclips.net/video/EcUCdOszF9U/видео.html) Thanks for watching, cheers!
Very interested to know what weight and flight time the quad would be with a 4s2p or 6s2p configuration. Also how it would compare vs a LiPo battery of similar capacity (say a single 5000mah or 2x 3300mah). I'm pretty new to long range, but have questions about lion vs lipo performance since I'm getting consistant 10 minutes with 2x1550mah or 1x3000mah 4S batteries landing at 3.5v - Would LiPo not give you that extra "pop" in 4s configuration that you want?
In the video I thought I showed the weights and flight times for the 4s2p and 6s2p setups. But basically the: - 4s2p pack weighs 620g AUW w/GoPro is around 1400g, flight time 25+ mins. (And this pack is old and damaged, so should be more) - 6s2p pack weighs 925g, AUW w/GoPro is around 1700g, flight time 22min (but could be more with gentler throttle) LiPo vs Li-Ion: - LiPo have higher energy output abilities - Li-Ion have more energy per gram Ex: A 6s GensAce 4000mAh LiPo weighs around 600g, a 4200mAh Li-Ion weighs 450g. So 150g or 25% less, and actually 200mAh more. Also this is with larger 21700 cells. If you used 18650 cells you would save even more weigh but lose some current output. As far as which to pick, it’s a bit of a numbers and cost question that doesn’t really have a correct or perfect answer.
it's interesting but are we measuring power usage? The 6s battery is using a lot more power because the higher voltage at the same amp hours and it's heavier. it just doesn't look like the efficiency is taking in consideration the voltage with the amp hours. I think that's called Watts?
Yes, in hindsight I should have used Watts as the comparative figure. I was more focused on current (Amps) at the time I made this video simply because li-ion batteries generally have a low Max Current Rating. I’d like to redo this test comparing some of my new 18650 packs as well. They are lower capacity but also weigh less. Always lots of variables and thing to think about, so appreciate the feedback. Cheers!
Great video man that’s a ton of work thank you very much for sharing all this precious informations ! I have a Falcon FR7 and use dual 18650 vtc6 6s2p to get the longest flight but it’s quite a fat build 😅 1500gr AUW . For mountain diving lately I’m starting to like big lipo too, ( >3000mah ) but are very expensive and hard to find … PS: I’d curios to see your pids too even if it’s kind of personal
Hey thank you, it mean a lot when people recognize the amount of work I put into these videos. It always starts as personal curiosity but then I obsess about the presentation details. My build is 1700g AUW with a GoPro and 21700 6S2P 8400mAh packs… but lately I’ve been enjoy/using these 18650 packs I made with Molicel P26a cells. In 6s2p configuration it’s 5200mAh, handled 70A, and weighs 300g less. Want to build more of these, they actually have a P28a cell too, I just can’t find them here in Norway… agree about LiPos 🤑 Regarding PIDs I’m actually using a BF4.3 preset. The 7” one by UAV Tech and it’s working great, haven’t done anything other than follow his notes and then I adjusted the rates a little. I’d recommend trying it. Anyway, thanks for watching and commenting. Stay tuned, cheers!
Which jumper is better to use for assembling Molicell 21700 42A - 6S What thickness and width of the steel tape is suitable for peak loads of long-range quadcopters. I want to use metal tape and welding instead of soldering
Sorry for the delay. So I haven’t used nickel strips or a spot welder, but will say I see a lot failures with them because the Nickel strips have high resistance compared to copper, (like only 25% as conductive as copper) and the batteries can get hot when pull high amps. The strips can even melt. So, I can’t say what thickness but better to go thicker for sure. I personally have soldered copper wire on all one packs and have no problem even when pushing them really hard. Thanks for watching, cheers!
Are these Values for Efficiency, still up to date? I build a 7 Inch with 1300KV Motors (2807). When cruising arroung I get values below 200 mAh. In the first Run, I landed after 21 Minutes, with 2500 mAh Used and 3.7 Voltes left. Battery was a 6s1P 5000mAh with 21700 Cells from GNB
@@vhudxbjv i actually did an update jiT a few months ago where I tested 18650 & 21700 packs. ruclips.net/video/EcUCdOszF9U/видео.html Check it out and let me know your thoughts, cheers!
Very helpful test data. I am running emax 2807 1700kv motors and will settle for 5S1P molicel p42a. What props have you settled on? Looking forward to that video. Why arent many running bi blade like HQ 7x4.5 ? someone cliamed he cant get rid or the jello. Please recommend me some props shortly. Tanks
Honestly the favorite props are HQ J75 props. They’re a 7x5x3 prop that give really nice control and cruising speed. 2-blade props always felt underwhelming to me, like I have less thrust and control. High pitched 3-blade prop are obviously less efficient, but with these huge 8Ah packs flight time and distance is never an issue for me, enough to easily fly 14km (8 miles).
After trying p42a in 5S1P and 4S2P configuration, I am thinking of trying 6S1P next. They felt pretty similar. The 5s1p are light. The 4s2p deliver more current, but are pretty heavy. I keep coming back to your video to compare your results. What I'd really like to know, why you chose the 1500kv motors? I've tried 1700kv 2807, but they draw too high current at low throttle. Now I've switched to 1300kv. On 4S2P 1500kv motors might be better though 🤔
I picked 1500kv simply because I couldn’t decide between 1700 and 1900… however literally just yesterday I got a set of 1300kv that I’ll be testing next month. Curious to see how they compare. For my current setup I really like 21700 6s2p, but recently made a 18650 6s2p pack which I really like. It’s 300g lighter, and has less capacity, but I still get 13km round trips out of it, and it the quad flys noticeably better. I try to make a part 2 to this video, stay tuned, cheers!
Absolutely, I made some lighter 18650 packs and need to do a follow up video at some point, but thanks for watching and appreciate the comment. Cheers!
Appreciate the comment! For the Control Link I found the Bardpole worked good, but i Highly Recommend a diversity RX. I currently run 2.4ghz ELRS Diversity at only 100mW and have near perfect LQ even out 7km, and only using standard di-pole antennas. Cheers!
Yea, I think they’re still in testing, but they should be ready soon if imagine. I’m actually heading to the UK tomorrow morning, I’ll be down in Cornwall for a few days. So don’t be surprised if you see some Cornish footage in upcoming videos. 👍
With just the battery packs 6s2p I'm getting 1.5kg on my set up and your chimera frame weighs more than mine. And you have a go pro on board wow? Where did all my extra weight come from on these 21700 packs
My quad weight 1700g AUW with GoPro. So yours sounds about the same actually. For shorter missions I’ve started using 18650 6s2p packs (Rated: 5200mAh/70A) made with Molicel p26a, p28a cells are an even better option, saves about 300g and the pack itself fits nicer on the quad. Let me know if that’s what you meant.
@@elxero2189 yea I think I’ve managed 13km, up a mountain and back with the 5200mah pack. So the larger pack is much better for cruising and “scouting missions”.
Giant ant cowboy i live in Maine near the white mountains in the USA. I was wondering if you would share any of your STLs from your antennna mounts. I wish for a day you could come fly the white mountains and Mount Washington with me than I could go there and fly your mountains. Also do you have w written guide on making my own Lions i buy mine right now and they are so costly
Hey appreciate the comment. Yea I wish I had time to just travel and fly different spots all over the world. What a thrilling experience it is to fly mountains and different landscapes! Which STLs are you looking for? Like which antennas? Regarding DIY batteries, I made a simple video about this which might be useful: ruclips.net/video/hnjgdUU3x5A/видео.html My favorite cells are Molicel P42a or P45b of building a large 21700 packs. And Molicel P28a cells if you want a lighter 18650 pack. Should be easy to get in the USA. Soldering batteries is no big deal, BUT you do not want to over heat them or connect them wrong. So: - Touch the cell with your finger while soldering and stop when it get warm. Work quickly, and take breaks to cool them as needed. - Makes sure all cells have the same voltage before you start soldering, ideally below 3.6v. This drastically reduces any risks involved when making these packs. Remember to take your time and make sure everything is wired properly; use a multimeter to check the pack. Happy flying, cheers!
sorry but i really dont understand, can a 90A battery burn a 50A esc like the speedybee f405v3 with 35.22A motors like IFlight XING-E Pro 2207 1800KV and how can I connect thoes 12 batteryes together?
• So a 50A ESC is the per motor rating, meaning that the ESC will actually handle up to 200A. • The Li-Ion battery I’m using will handle up to 90A for short periods of time. If you try to pull more it will damage the battery, and maybe even catch fire in extreme cases. • I build all my Li-Ion packs using Molicel Batteries and a Soldering iron. Here a quick DIY Video I made years ago - ruclips.net/video/hnjgdUU3x5A/видео.html Hope that all makes sense, thanks for watching!
Ideally I land before 3v, but my 4s battery packs are so worn out from a lot of abuse that they drop below 3v at like 80% capacity… I’ve killed these packs several times and have done high Amp maneuvers many times, so they aren’t in good shape any more. But still great batteries!
Sure, no worries. Most efficient longest flight time at slow speed was the 4s2p packs. If you skip to the last test it shows a comparison of my 4s2p vs 6s2p when doing gentle cruising. There’s a lot of variables of course and you’re setup will be different than mine but these were my results. Cheers
hy i've got some sony murata 3100 mah 35A curent cells to make a 6s2p pack , my concern i about how many nichel strips do i need to get 35A per series pack (35 per pack will lead to 70A discharge total 2p config), i have some 0.2x8 mm pure nichel strip that i've heard and tried that it doesn't like to stack multiple layers, and some nichel plated steel that weld better more buttery. Are 4 layers enough ? should i alter the strips to have steel nichel steel nichel ... also i think it is better to connect the cells in paralel at each joint of 2 parallel cells but i ask just to be sure
To be honest, I’ve never Spot Welded Nickel strips. I always solder mine. It’s a little more time consuming but I prefer to use Copper wire as it’s 4x more conductive than Nickel. (Also I don’t have a spot welder…) So unfortunately I’m not the best resource for this question. Definitely thicker is better. I often hear people complaining hot poor performing Li-Ion packs and suspect those packs are made with too thin Nickel strips. Keep me posted on how it works out though, always curious. Cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy That was a fast response :)) i didn't considered soldering as i've heard that heat damage the cells so i though to go on the safer side spot welding them. I would also be more comfortable with soldering them, i don't know if those spot welds will create enough surface area of contact betwen the first strip and the cell tab
@@alexandrugroza839 yea I’ve soldered a dozen packs and have used them for years. I run them pretty hard as well and have had no issues. The key to soldering is working in stages. Sand & clean each terminal before starting. Use Flux. Tinning might take a couple tries, but hold a finger on the battery and stop when it start to feel warm. Just move to the next one. Important: - Check that each cell is around 3.5v before soldering them together. - The outside of the cell is Ground (-) so be careful when soldering (+) terminals, and make sure the insulation on the (+) terminals is intact. Here’s a basic DIY I made years ago showing the process. ruclips.net/video/hnjgdUU3x5A/видео.html
I don’t actually know Ovionic, so I’d have to say Auline, 45c is plenty and 70g weight savings is a lot. However it is $23 more… Have you thought about getting or making Li-Ion packs?
That’s for that yes I was heading towards the Auline … I just put a GoPro session 5 on my chimera but got a lot of gyro noise in Gyroflow But the air unit recording was stable …so it looks like the GoPro is picking up vibration but the quad sounds sweet and flys smooth Any idears I know it’s a bit off topic Cheers Phil 😊
A couple things to check: - The GoPro mount should be firm and tight. - Install a new set of props if you have some. A slightly bent prop can cause a lot of noise. - Really you should record and review Blackbox logs and see how noisy your craft is; Not sure if you’ve done this before. - If your quad is noisy/has a lot of vibration and you can fix it, then you might actually have ignore my first suggestion and make the GoPro mount soft. Some people make a GoPro mount with zip ties that act like leaf springs. Let me know what you find out 👍
@@GiantAntCowboy thanks for your advice .. it’s a new build all new props good quality TPU GoPro mount … the raw footage is smooth and the video link is smooth I will try soft mount for GoPro And I really should get into black box logging just seems a bit overwhelming lol Thanks for your help 😊👍
I got some Lishen 45a 21700 cells a few months ago. Hoping to make a 4s2p pack with it, using 1700kv motors! Will probably need to limit my throttle! I wonder if you flying in a colder environment allows you to abuse the batteries a little more because they dont get dangerously hot?
One thing I didn't realize (at least to this extent) with liion, the more current you pull, the less mAH you will be able to get out of the pack (by hundreds of mAH). Same goes for cold weather. There are charts out there but I had a new liion that I pulled 3900mah out of (200mah less than capacity) flying chill on a warm day, and another guy with a similiar pack pulling more amperage on a cold day had a flat dead pack at 600-700mah less than capacity.
You should not have to limit your throttle or motor output for that 4s2p setup. Heat is definitely the enemy, and in hotter environments you will see some degraded performance. But if you keep the Amps below the Max output you should fine. Do some tests and feel to the batteries to be sure and get used to how the setup works. Thanks for watching, cheers!
Hi dude, thanks for your video! I was flying at some really high peaks around 25000ft, using 8000mah 6s lipo on my 10inch because I think lipo performs better at -20 degrees, but I'm curious what's the best match for my need if I'm trying Liion next time, probably 6s 3p?
Hey, appreciate the comment. Crazy mountains your flying to sounds like! Where are you flying? Regarding battery solutions: What’s the average current draw (Amp Range) you have while flying? Some options: If you made a 6s3p pack with Molicel P42a cells it might weight about 1300g (slightly more than your 8000mAh LiPo) but it’d have 12,600mAh and it’d handle up to 135A. Or you could use like Sony VTC6 cells in the same 6s3p setup and you’d have 9000mAh with 90A max current, but it’d only weight about 900g. So you’d save between 300-400g which could result in better range. Alternatively depending on Amp requirements, you could try some 4s setups, which saves a lot of weight, but reduces top-end power due to the higher current demand.
@@GiantAntCowboy Thanks for the suggestions, I'm in China, flying near the Himalayas so the mountains are over 18000ft in average, pretty insane. The flight time at this altitude drops to 60% of what you get at sea level, so the flight time needs to be over 35mins at least. I'm now getting 30mins on my 10" 6s 8ah setup but wanna change it to maybe around 10ah on 8"
With wiring the li-ion pack. Doesn't it not matter for balance cables which exact battery its on just like between b1 & b3.. between t3 & t4??? (Except for 1st positive and last negative ) I want to build a Molicel P45B pack 6S2P or 4P. Maybe a 3P 😆 🤣
I believe the order matters when using a balance charger, in fact I believe I actually got an error once when I swapped two leads on mistake. Basically it’s adding the voltage for cell and if, for example, the second cell shows more than double the first cell it thinks there’s a problem. (This shouldn’t be dangerous though.) ** The most dangerous thing that can happen is either overheating the cells while soldering, or accidentally shorting the (+) and (-) terminals of the battery. Remember that the outside of the battery is (-) and if you accidentally bridge solder, or a wire, from the (+) terminal to the battery case you could short the battery which can be dangerous. Tip: Never work on cells that are fully charged, and always check cells before assembling to ensure they are at a similar voltage. Sorry… lots of precautions, I just want people to be safe. I built a proper 6s2p pack using the smaller P26a cells and really like it. Nice size and weight, and can still get about 13km up into the mountains. The P45b cells looks really nice, I haven’t found any of those yet in Norway. Still using the P42a cells. You can certainly make bigger batteries, 3p/4p but since these are flying machines the capacity benefit eventually becomes negative due to weight. “Diminishing Returns” Curious to see and hear about your projects and findings, cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy meant the 2 batteries connected by a strip. i can just put it in the middle of the strip. might get spot welder might solder strip. not sure. doing a lot of research not to set house on fire lol
Whats the "absolut" longest flighttime with your 6s2p Liion ? Im a little bit confused about your flighttime 6s1p liion because i easily achived 25min with 4000mah, cruising slow as possible (never above 25a)
I could maybe squeeze 25min flight time with my 8400mAh 6S2P, but it would be a boring flight. What’s your setup? This is a Chimera 7 with 1500kv motors, carrying a GoPro 8, weighing 1700g. EMAX sent me a set of 1300kv motors recently that I’ll be testing soon, maybe that’ll help efficiency. But let me know about your setup, and thanks for watching, cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy after i sleep one night i recognize a significant different, the Distance 🤣 i never reached your Distance you have achieved. But my Setup is a geprc mark5 with egodrift jetstreams (2407) , 6s1p 4000mah liion and gopro, ~ 1200g
@@Quadtastrophe yea so many variables in this hobby. Impossible to do a perfect comparison. Weight is a huge factor for efficiency of any flying machine, but also my bigger motors might just consume more power. Thanks for the response.
You’re welcome, appreciate the comment. I’m running BF4.3 now, but haven’t really used GPS rescue since I upgraded to the version. Historical GPS rescue has been a little goofy, but it always came back when it needed too and even saved me a few times. I’ve thought about trying iNav so many times.. but it’s just another thing to set up, as it is I barely have time to go out and fly. Happy to discuss further, thanks for watching, cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy I tried setting up inav a bit and it looks similar to betaflight but just different enough to mess me up. My hdzero osd was having some glitches too. Characters overlapping or getting stuck. I think I'll flash betaflight again and set that up. Thank you!
@@Jeb223 yea. That’s what I assumed would happen to me… everything in this hobby turns into a huge project. In other news I’m using the BF4.3 UAV 7”Preset on the Chimera 7 and it does fly noticeably better, of course maybe I just did a crap tune previously…
Oh yea, that’s good to know. It’ll be curious to see how ours compare then. I recently switched to ELRS, but getting some interference noise now. What’s your range goals?
I'm very curious to see how your quad would perform if you swapped the 7 inch props for 8 inch props on the 4s setup and see if that would do you better when compared to the 6s with a 7 inch prop... I suspect it would be surprising. yes it's not an apples to apples but if you're chasing better performance or better flight times it's worth wild to attempt this. I'm in the process of testing it myself however my props have yet to arrive
@@GiantAntCowboy ah I see. On my tbs source one 7 dead cat I'd have trouble fitting 8 inch as well however I'm going to flip the quad upside down and stagger my props that way it will fit
Yup, I use almost exclusively DIY packs. Mine are all soldered “with care” and work great. Generally I hear the argument that Spot Welding is better or the only way to go but have never had any issues with mine. Additionally I’ve heard many people with Spot Welded packs complain about over heating… part of me wonders if the thin nickel strips cause too much resistance at higher amp loads. Nickel is much less conductive that copper. According to IACS copper is 100% and Nickel is only 22%. I made a quick simple DIY video a while back if curious what I do: ruclips.net/video/hnjgdUU3x5A/видео.html Happy to answer questions about the DIY or different pack setups, cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy thanks for the reply. I agree the high current is a problem. I was going to spot weld using a coper nickle sandwich but now I think I'll do a solder through a hole in a thicker copper plate.
@@senditsamfpv I just use like 12awg wire soldered between, copper plates could certainly work. One word of caution: the body of the battery is Ground (-) so be careful when soldering the Positive (+) not to accidentally bridge the (+) connections to the battery body… hope that makes sense.
Interesting stuff. I have built a 4S1P P42A pack for my 6" build. I think I can keep it under 45A most of the time. I've not flown it yet. You say that things go bad if you draw too much current. How bad? Is it ball-of-fire bad like with a Lipo, or a little less extreme?
If you exceed 45A your voltage will sag/drop very quickly, and the cells will start to get hot. If you do this briefly, like a quick blip, it’s normally fine, but if you continue to push the pack it will get very hot and could theoretically catch fire, but would probably just lose power and crash. Repeatedly exceeding the max Amp output rating will damage the cells, increase internal resistance, and reduce their total capacity.
Yup, my 2P packs are just two 1P packs wired together with an XT60 adapter. I should have talked about this in the video. Thanks for watching, stay tuned for follow up videos. Cheers!
Well, a couple things. - At 900g, the 6S2P weights 300g more, which is 50% heavier than the 4s setups. - Also I think I push the 6s packs harder… so the test might not be totally accurate. Ultimately though weight kills efficiency, especially with anything that flys! I recently started using 18650 6s2p packs made with Molicel P26a cells. These packs save 300g offer 5200mAh, and can handle up to 70A. You lose a little range compared to the 8000mAh packs, but I still get 13km trips out of them and the quad flys quicker and more nimble. I’ll try to do a follow up video about this eventually, just been busy! Thanks for watching, stay tuned, cheers!
I watch your videos from India. At present I don't have access to any of these HDZERO vtx or Chimera frame here, but still your video inspires me and add knowledge to me that if i will make, then how i will make one. Presently have a five inch quad with analog vtx and 14 min flight time.
Thank you, appreciate the nice comment. Analog is simpler, cheaper and still a ton of fun! No need to go digital honestly, but obviously the image is better. Depending on your goals, 5” quads are pretty universal. Li-Ion batteries are great for increasing range, and helical antennas are cheap and easy to make if you need more video range. Thanks for watching, cheers!
@@elxero2189 haha! Thanks for the update. My experience with the 7.5” props seem to be that they are more efficient but feel slower to respond, but I haven’t done any solid back to back testing yet.
@@GiantAntCowboy I didn't do solid back to back either but the quad feels slower to respond yes have to do wider turns I was trying to maintain constant speed over all I'm noticing the same amo draw at the same speeds. Even though the efficiency numbers at the end of the flight show differences. I can only guess that since ethe only thing I'm changing are the props then I'd get the same power output. The only difference will be at what throttle and what speed. Which changes depending on the prop.
@@0baakYT with my latest 6s2p builds I’m getting much better flight times. Here’s the updated test which compares 18650 vs 21700 6s2p packs. (Long Range FPV Battery Testing DJI | 30+ Minute Flight Time | 18650 vs. 21700 Li-Ion Packs 6s2p DIY ruclips.net/video/EcUCdOszF9U/видео.html) These ones are awesome!
Nice. Mine is like 1700g with 6s2p, but recently I’ve been using a smaller 5000mAh pack that saves about 300g. Reducing weight is by far the greatest way to improve flight time and power efficiency with any flying vehicles.
@@GiantAntCowboy For this frame diminishing returns starts to weight hard at over 1200gr, so with minor diferences, really 4s,5s or 6s depends on your preference (and sag tolerability). Props are the most important in maxing the efficiency. Wish someone makes Mavic II Pro type propellers for 5mm shaft :) Nice tuning, stability on 4s is very telling for a good setup. Care to share PIDs if in INAV?
@@sakarrc5001 yea, for me it’s a mix of handling vs efficiency. Meaning I want decent flight time, but also enough power/thrust to fly fast and hard in the mountains. Currently I’m using HQ J75 props, not efficient but have great feel. Regarding PID tune I started using the UAV preset for 7” in BF4.3 a few months ago and really like it. Don’t think I’ve tweaked it since then.
I hope you are certified If not id remove the weight part of the video Could give you some trouble in the future Happened to me on videos i didnt say i had authorized flights Dig the video Have a good one
Thank you, appreciate the comment and support! These videos are really just theoretical tests made using a combination of CGI, creative editing, and of course long hiking trips! However, I’m a certified SCUBA diver if that helps… We do our best not to rattle any cages down at the government offices. Cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy I've run it on both, no limits, at the time I just assumed they were 6s capable because the BH equivalent motors were. The motors never got too hot or anything so I just kept running them on 6s, with a 55amp Esc.
I think the battery manufacturers lie to us. I've never seen a 18650 cell that can deliver more than 35A for more than one or two seconds without getting damaged and neither have I seen a high current cell that has more than 2600mAh. For motors over 22mm diameter I would always use 2p packs even if they are a lot heavier. Maybe biblade props can reduce amp draw but they tend to produce a lot of jello in the footage.
The 18650 Molicel cells say 35A max, I recently built a 5.2Ah 6S2P pack with them and I’m very happy with it. Saves about 300g compared to my 21700 8Ah packs, so it flys a bit nicer using less current and I managed a 13km trip the with it the other day. I run everything in 2P configuration for the most part unless it’s a quick gentle flight, and I prefer high pitch tri-blades. The bi-blades I’ve tried always felt dull, or lacking in thrust power after a dive or tight turn. Anyway thanks for watching and sharing some insights.
![☀ LiIon для народа - аккумуляторные сборки на любой вкус. [Li-Force LiIon Packs]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZGkV2WcwwqA/mqdefault.jpg)
Best long rage battery test I've ever seen. Wish I could have seen this earlier.
Thanks, always hoping this is useful to someone. Of course results will vary based on your motors and props, but it’s a good base line for folks. I’ll be doing a follow up with 1300kv motors and some lighter 18650 packs, so stay tuned.
Appreciate the comment and support, cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboywhat’s the best KVs on motors for long range flight on 5 inch?
@@joloaseniro that’s a tricky question, lower is generally more efficient, but you’d have to find a balance between performance & efficiency. So it really depends on your Goal/Use, Motor Size, Battery Type, & approximate AUW.
Molicel P42a 21700 Cells have changed the hobby for me. Especially fixed wings, but with 7" inchers blowing up, the more the merrier! And my cars, goggles, and Zorro also feel that Molicel love! Thanks for this great video!
Yea, Molicel even released newer P45b and P28b cells this year which are a nice little improvement. Thanks for watching and commenting, appreciate the support. Cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy I have a 6" LR running Upgrade Energy's P45b 6s pack. 21700's are so good.
@@The0nionKnight yup, I’d love to get some of those new P45b cells. Hard to order them here in Norway.
@@The0nionKnightWhat frame did you use for 6s 21700. Is there enought space to fit the battery
@carlitov9734 I’m using the iFlight Chimera 7 frame, but the FR7 and Falcon Rad frames also work for these packs.
By far best video out there. Thank you for your hard work on that. After building many smaller quads and some wings finally building 7" with 2807 1500kv. Hoping that I can run 4s and 6s DIY Li-Ions, 5 inch packs in parallel and also fixed wing bigger LiPos. This answered all my questions. Thanks again - awesome stuff 👍👏
By far the best comment out there! I do put a ton of effort into these videos, and so I appreciate the kind words, cheers!
One random tip when making these packs: Check the voltage of each cell to make sure they are about the same before assembling.
This. This is how you do fpv testing videos.
This comment is Very much appreciated. I’m always testing things and then put in a ton of effort trying to share my tests with folks. So it’s nice to receive comments and support like this. Check out my other video and Stay tuned, cheers!
Lots of great information condensed into a short time here, I'll definitely be rewatching this often in the future!
Great to hear, thanks. I’ll post a follow up at some point because I’ve recently started made some 18650 6s2p packs and really like them. Also I got some 1300kv motors so we’ll see how much more efficient they are compared to my 1500kv. Stay tuned, cheers!
Awesome work mate! Really fresh content you don’t normally find nowadays.
Thanks I appreciate that comment. I spend so much time making these videos, but it’s because I have a vision of what I want to present and how I want it to look; which turns into weeks of filming and editing... So it’s nice to hear when people appreciate the effort, stay tuned, cheers!
Just ordered a few 21700 cells to build a 6s Pack. This is the best comparison video if have seen yet!🔥🔥
Hey thanks, appreciate the comment! It’s a lot of fun experimenting with different battery setups and you can save a lot by making them. Stay tuned for more and good luck with your build, cheers!
The best comparison video format.
Love how the info is laid out on the screen. Excellent!
The font size is just perfect even when viewing the video on a phone.
Thank you for the feedback and support! I’m always playing with font size and layout to try and make it readable so that’s good to hear. Stay tuned for more, cheers!
I’d be. Very interested to see test between 4s3p vs 6s2p - with that setup the battery weight would be the same.
That’s an interesting idea, with these 21700 cells you’d have 12000mAh and could fly forever! I’ll put it on the list of ideas, thanks for watching and sharing! Stay tuned, cheers!
But isn't the amp rating gonna be lower?
BTW I'm very interested about doing mountain surfing but with LR 5 inch ..how different my experience gonna be?
Because my také off weight gonna be around 440-550gr with 4k 4s lion
Excellent comparison, I have many 1P packs and they do struggle when you need to get moving quickly, even the 21700s. Good to see some usable data displayed.
You can build a simple parallel connector with 3 XT60s, then you can run a couple packs together in 2p. I highly recommend trying it as you’ll double capacity, double Amp output max and reduce voltage sag!
Thanks for watching, stay tuned, cheers!
Yea some my drones the 1p packs land hot. Real hot.
Absolutly the best battery comparison in the Internet!!! Thank you very much for this awesome Work! This helps a lot
Appreciate the comment, glad to hear this was interesting, helpful, entertaining, cheers!
Awesome flights man. HDZero looks breathtaking... And OSD!!! Also I don't know why it's so different, I built a 6s1p liion pack with p42a molicels and with 3850mah drawn on a chill flight (average speed 62kph) I was in the air for 18 min and covered 18.7km. My setup is a iflight titan dc7, emax ecoii 2807 1500kv (same as yours) AUW is 1150g with a hero 7 black.
Thanks man, appreciate the comment and support. Yea HDZero is great, really glad to be part of the evolution this year, its been a great system for mountain cruising here in Norway.
It does seem you’re getting better flight time than me, but I’ll have to look back at the footage/do another test to confirm. Seems our setups are extremely similar so it’ll be interesting to see. Thanks for checking out the video, I’ll let you know if I can match your flight time and distance. Cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy gorgeous country I'm jealous 😁😁
@@NicholasLubbe yea, Norway is an incredible place, especially for FPV. I’m technically American, but moved here because it’s so great for FPV… haha! Just kidding, but it’s certainly a pleasant bonus of moving here.
Auw is 1150g with gopro AND battery? Wow!
Wow Peter, still snow there.
Great video. Well presented mate!
Thanks Noel. Yup still snow, these tests were filmed at various times, but honestly parts of the mountains have snow year round here. Appreciate the comment! Cheers!
Wow. Your reviewing and presentation skills are fanstastic and clear all the time even video quality, cool bgm with beatiful scenery. Thanks^^.
Thank you very much, it’s nice to hear my efforts are appreciated, stay tuned, Cheers!
Sooooo nice made! All this great info while watching the video feed! Awesome!
Thanks you for noticing the effort. These videos take forever to make but I want them to be useful, and also hopefully entertaining. Appreciate the support, cheers!
Great video! I built a 6s li-ion using Molicel 4200mah 45A. How bad is it for the battery if I cranked it up to 50A for 3-5 seconds?
Did you solder or spot weld?
If you soldered you might be able to pull 50A for a few seconds with no issues, likely you’ll get a ton of voltage sag though. Doing that a lot will reduce the life of the cells… I’ve noticed that one cell, (the one hooked to the negative terminal I think) wears out quicker than the rest on a couple of my packs from abuse.
If you spot welded the Nickel strips/weld will quickly overheat and create a ton of resistance, so pushing the current (Amp draw) hard will be more of an issue.
Hope that helps, thanks for checking out the channel, cheers!
I soldered it. Oh, that's great to know! I didn't know that what I did was better. WOOHOO! The lipo battery is for my 7 inch which I cruised at 25A-30A only. Thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate it a lot! :)
@@neilfpv yea spot welding is easier, cleaner, safer, more professional… but Nickel has higher resistance, and the Nickel tabs used are usually too thin. You’ll often hear people complain that their li-ion packs are really hot! Or caught fire, or have terrible voltage sag… all these issue stem from poor cell connections.
It’s a huge debate, but I’ve always argued the benefits of soldering copper vs welding nickel.
Fun Fact: Nickel can be “welded” because it’s electrical resistance is high enough to melt the metal. Copper can not be welded because it transfers electricity so well. That should be the main argument. Haha cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboyhaha, very cool! Really great to know this information. Thanks for sharing! :)
@@GiantAntCowboysubscribed! :)
Hey, great video, but I think I found a small error at 7:17. All 3 setups show exactly the same amp usage down to a ma, even though in the osd you can see different values. Is this on purpose, did I miss something?
Anyways apart from that, for sure the best and most in depth analysis I got to date!
So the reason is because I adjusted the totals to account for the mAh used during setup. (Pre-flight Checks, acquiring GPS, etc.)
Adjustments we’re 225mAh from the Top Left, 52mAh from the Top Right, and 448mAh from the Bottom. If you check back at the start when I arm and takeoff you’ll see I started with these totals.
There is a small note about this at the end of the test, but I should have made this clearer. I was trying to be accurate… Happy to see you were paying attention though, thanks for watching, cheers!!
Great work!!! Hope to see more videos about long range flights on hdzero, nature amazing on your place)))
Ps: about battery s: people usually dispute about 4s 2400kv and 6s 1700kv setups, do they have equal power and flight time)))
Power output aside, the reason 6s is more efficient aka more flight time is because the overall amperage for a given wattage is less, thermal loss goes down bringing efficiency up. Aside from that, even running a 4s on a 1700kv motor, the voltage sag is less, throttle is far more responsive and sharper (less power on 4s but far more controllability than 4s w 2400kv), and on 6s it gives that and far more motor torque.
I don’t really know for sure, always a lot of variables… I’d have to build a proper test setup to find out. I’m working on some more neat HDZero videos now, so stay tuned and thanks for the comment, cheers!
Love the love the comparison glad you did it not very many people would do what you do and I do appreciate it
Thank you very much for the nice comment! Was a bit of work, and it’s nice to hear the effort was appreciated! Cheers!
Very well done! So much of the information I was looking for in one video
Thank you appreciate the comment and glad to hear you found the video useful. Stay tuned for follow up tests coming soon, cheers!
Great stuff, looking forward to seeing how the 6S 18650 packs perform. I'm going to be building a 7" long-range cruiser this summer and making my own 6s2p packs, but haven't decided whether to go with 18650s or 21700s.
Yea, most my long-range flights are under 15km so the 8000mAh packs aren’t really necessary and add a few hundred grams, so I’m excited to test out the lighter weight 18650 packs. Stay tuned and thanks for the support, cheers!
Really thorough data & presentation. Very impressive what you've done here. Great work! I fly 4S lipo & get pretty good range/time/efficiency on my 8" here in Alaska, but I'm always wondering about bigger range you know! Although I get more & more nervous the further out I get. Maybe if I were rich I wouldn't worry about it so much!
Really appreciate the comment. This video took some effort and it’s really such a specific niche topic… but as with all my videos, I was curious and figured I’d share my findings.
Increasing range, flight time, cruising speed, and exploring new areas is what it’s all about. The fear and anxiety we get during the flight is what makes it so exciting!
Good Antennas, GPS Rescue, Self-powered Buzzers, and Telemetry Logging are all key to improving recovery of a lost quad… but sometimes, in my case at least, climbing gear would be necessary. Haha!
Anyway, long response, but I appreciate the comment, happy to answer any questions, and curious to hear about your new records. Stay tuned, cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy So it looks like flying slower saves a bit of power...that makes sense. I've gone just over 5 miles out with my set-up. Don't really need more than that.
@@fpvflyriding absolutely, like in a car, the faster your go the more fuel you use. 👍
I build some Chimera 7 by myself for Long Range cruising stuff. Together with DIY 6S1P Li Ion Molicel P42A / 4000mAh you get good flight time and for Fun you can use 6S Lipos around 3300mAh. I think Li Ion in 6S2P is too much weight. So this year I will swap out my 6S FC+ESC and try 8S. More Voltage means less current and more energie than 6S but only 2 cells more in one Pack. So i hope i can gain more flight time.
Nice, appreciate the comment. I recently made a 5200mAh 6s2p pack using Molicel p26a 18650 cells and really like it, weighs 300g less than my 8000mah pack and fits the quad better.
I still fly 12-13km with it which covers most flights for me. Curious to hear how 8s works for you. Cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy The Molicel P28A looks very promising. 2800mAh / 35A discharge and only 46g each. So a 6S2P Pack of these weight roughly the same as 8S1P P42A. Both Packs have the same amount of energy 124Wh. But tue 6S2P will delivers more current.
Thanks for sharing you Infos to us. I appreciate your work!
Very good video and info. High confidence in my 6s2p build going forward.
Thanks appreciate the comment. I recently made a 5200mAh 6s2p pack using Molicel p26a 18650 cells and really like it, weighs 300g less than my 8000mah pack and fits the quad better.
I can still fly 12-13km with it which covers most flights for me.
@@GiantAntCowboy My thoughts exactly. I don't think I'll be building 21700 packs and will just stick to my p26's. It's plenty for my AOS 7.
I like seeing this sort of comparison video. Even though I use 3s on everything.
Hey thanks for watching, I appreciate the comment. It’s fun to experiment with setups and I’ll always to try share my tests with the community. Cheers!
Interesting comparision, so the larger but heavier 6s pack doesn't really increase your flight time but gives you better performance.
But why are you running such low pitch props? Shouldn't high pitch props be more efficient?
Given its 7 inch, 3.5 pitch is reasonable and no higher pitch props aren't more efficient it's the other way around. Reason being that the motor is essentially in a 'lower gear'. We'd think it would make it go slower but to a point it doesn't, at least not noticeably. Reason being is that the motor has the ability to spin closer to it's max actual rpm all while using less current, making it more efficient. Motors never reach their max capable rpm with props on anyways so they make up for the headroom.
I don't understand why mine is so different, running same p42a 4200mAH 6s homemade pack on my DC7 with exact same motors, AUW 1150g, I was in the air for 18min and covered 18.7km, average speed 62kph
Seems to be the case, but there’s a lot of variables. I was running 3.5 pitch props for efficiency but have a bunch of different props I’ll be comparing in an upcoming video so stay tuned. Higher pitch seems to “burn more fuel” but we’ll try to do some real side by side tests to find out for sure. Thanks for watching and commenting, cheers!
Great comparison “Cowboy” I took a few screen shots to study your stats…very interesting 6s always wins eh!
I’m still waiting for a Auline 3300mah 6s to arrive for my Chimera 7”.. haven’t even considered Li-on yet
Keep up the good work … beautiful place to fly 😊👍
Thanks man always appreciate the comments and support! It’s seems 4s could be beneficial if/when you’re cruising gently in flat terrain. For that situation the reduced weight of the 4s outweighs the increased power of the 6s. A really good 4s application with be with wings I bet.
GepRc 7" here. Just made my first 6s, 4000mAh 21700 li-ion pack (Samsung 40T cells). It's 456g. My 5000 mAh, 6S lipo is 790g. I'm gonna make a bunch of these things. I can get 60% more capacity for 12% more weight in a 2P setup... it's a no-brainer. Li-ion is the way to go for 7" quads. The only time i'd go with a lipo is if i really feel the need to thrash it for 3 minutes. Then, i'd use a 2200 mah, high-C rating lipo for mad acro.
Yup, agreed. I fly almost exclusively Li-Ion setups. My new favorite battery is actually a 5200mAh 6S2P made with Molicel P26a 18650 cells. Its 300g lighter than the 6S2P 21700 packs, and physically more compact as well. Great for shorter faster runs, and I still get 13km round trips flying up to the mountains.
I’ll do a follow up video at some point, Molicel also has P28 (2800mAh) cells, but I couldn’t find them here in Norway…
Anyways thanks for watching and commenting, stay tuned cheers!
Haha, I love you left the battery juggling in at the beginning 🤣
Great tests and video as always, very well done.
I use a Molicel 6s2p 8.4Ah, and a Samsung 6s2p 8Ah for my long range flights, but mine has the 1300kv motors, and get a very similar time using either of them, around 20 minutes cruising at 80-90kph. My overall weight with these packs is 1700g. This is using the Dal 7056c, and more recently the HQProp 7x4.5x3 composite props.
Yea thought the opening was pretty funny… 😄 appreciate the comment. I recently tried/started using the HQ J75 props based on a suggest you made about the Dal 7056 and man what a beast! So much power and control, and I can hear it miles away. Haha! I’ll be working on a propeller comparison soon using 4-5 different 7” props, should be interesting. Cheers Kev!
@@GiantAntCowboy Yeah, I love the higher pitch props for power and control. Looking forward to the video.
Happy flying 😎
great comparisons - the challenge is always what batteries do I have on hand that are performing well for me today - I run both 4s and 6s on some of my quads and it isnt always clear what batteries perform best under what flying conditions - if I know its NOT going to be windy some 4s seem to work well - if I need the juice 6s is great to have on hand - flight times between 4s/6s always seem comparable - weight of 6s offsets the gains generally - but 6s hands down flies "juicy-er"
Thank you, and very well said. Your exactly right, the two packs seem pretty comparable except the 6s does feel a whole lot “juicy-er” which inspires more confidence as well. It’s nice to know you can “pull up” at the last second. I’ve been testing these J75 props recently and they are fast and loud beasts with the 6s pack, a lot of fun!
Very helpful video - thank you! Production quality with visuals is top notch. Are you still planning on doing a comparison with the 18650 Molicel P28A?
Thanks, I put a lot of effort into the “production”, so I’m always happy to hear when people appreciate it.
I actually just made an 5200mAh 18650 6s2p pack using Molicel P26A cells which handles up to 70A. It’s a really nice addition to the larger 21700 packs, both as it’s 300g lighter and it’s also smaller in size so fits nicer.
The flys noticeably lighter, uses less Amps, and feels more agile and quick. I’ve gotten 13km (8miles) of fast cruising from it, so it works great for most flights.
I have not yet done an proper comparison to the bigger 21700 packs, but will try to do a follow up soon.
Thanks for watching, stay tuned, cheers!
very nice testing!
Thanks, appreciate the comment. I’m actually editing a “Part II” to this testing with some different setups. So stay tuned, cheers!
Just did an update to this testing btw:
“18650 vs. 21700 Li-Ion Packs 6s2p”
ruclips.net/video/EcUCdOszF9U/видео.html
this is a great test thanks dude. It doesn't seem to me that the 6s2p is a whole lot better than the 4s2p? I guess weight has something to do with it, and also I've heard that the lower voltage is more efficient due to less heat loss...however in your case you are keeping the motor kv stable with different voltages which will mean lower rpm.
@@SupaflyFPV absolutely! For slower long-range flights 4s setups seem to outperform due to the lower weight. 6s just reduces voltage sag and is better for higher speed or recovering from a dive.
I did an updated test a few months back that’s worth checking out. (Long Range FPV Battery Testing DJI | 30+ Minute Flight Time | 18650 vs. 21700
ruclips.net/video/EcUCdOszF9U/видео.html)
Thanks for watching, cheers!
Very interesting Tests you made there! Helps me a lot. 🍻👍
Thanks, appreciate the comment. Nice to hear this stuff is useful to folks.
Cheers! 🍻
Very interested to know what weight and flight time the quad would be with a 4s2p or 6s2p configuration. Also how it would compare vs a LiPo battery of similar capacity (say a single 5000mah or 2x 3300mah). I'm pretty new to long range, but have questions about lion vs lipo performance since I'm getting consistant 10 minutes with 2x1550mah or 1x3000mah 4S batteries landing at 3.5v - Would LiPo not give you that extra "pop" in 4s configuration that you want?
In the video I thought I showed the weights and flight times for the 4s2p and 6s2p setups. But basically the:
- 4s2p pack weighs 620g AUW w/GoPro is around 1400g, flight time 25+ mins. (And this pack is old and damaged, so should be more)
- 6s2p pack weighs 925g, AUW w/GoPro is around 1700g, flight time 22min (but could be more with gentler throttle)
LiPo vs Li-Ion:
- LiPo have higher energy output abilities
- Li-Ion have more energy per gram
Ex: A 6s GensAce 4000mAh LiPo weighs around 600g, a 4200mAh Li-Ion weighs 450g. So 150g or 25% less, and actually 200mAh more.
Also this is with larger 21700 cells. If you used 18650 cells you would save even more weigh but lose some current output.
As far as which to pick, it’s a bit of a numbers and cost question that doesn’t really have a correct or perfect answer.
it's interesting but are we measuring power usage? The 6s battery is using a lot more power because the higher voltage at the same amp hours and it's heavier. it just doesn't look like the efficiency is taking in consideration the voltage with the amp hours. I think that's called Watts?
Yes, in hindsight I should have used Watts as the comparative figure. I was more focused on current (Amps) at the time I made this video simply because li-ion batteries generally have a low Max Current Rating.
I’d like to redo this test comparing some of my new 18650 packs as well. They are lower capacity but also weigh less. Always lots of variables and thing to think about, so appreciate the feedback. Cheers!
Great video man that’s a ton of work thank you very much for sharing all this precious informations ! I have a Falcon FR7 and use dual 18650 vtc6 6s2p to get the longest flight but it’s quite a fat build 😅 1500gr AUW . For mountain diving lately I’m starting to like big lipo too, ( >3000mah ) but are very expensive and hard to find …
PS: I’d curios to see your pids too even if it’s kind of personal
Hey thank you, it mean a lot when people recognize the amount of work I put into these videos. It always starts as personal curiosity but then I obsess about the presentation details.
My build is 1700g AUW with a GoPro and 21700 6S2P 8400mAh packs… but lately I’ve been enjoy/using these 18650 packs I made with Molicel P26a cells. In 6s2p configuration it’s 5200mAh, handled 70A, and weighs 300g less. Want to build more of these, they actually have a P28a cell too, I just can’t find them here in Norway… agree about LiPos 🤑
Regarding PIDs I’m actually using a BF4.3 preset. The 7” one by UAV Tech and it’s working great, haven’t done anything other than follow his notes and then I adjusted the rates a little. I’d recommend trying it. Anyway, thanks for watching and commenting. Stay tuned, cheers!
Which jumper is better to use for assembling Molicell 21700 42A - 6S
What thickness and width of the steel tape is suitable for peak loads of long-range quadcopters. I want to use metal tape and welding instead of soldering
Sorry for the delay. So I haven’t used nickel strips or a spot welder, but will say I see a lot failures with them because the Nickel strips have high resistance compared to copper, (like only 25% as conductive as copper) and the batteries can get hot when pull high amps. The strips can even melt. So, I can’t say what thickness but better to go thicker for sure.
I personally have soldered copper wire on all one packs and have no problem even when pushing them really hard. Thanks for watching, cheers!
Are these Values for Efficiency, still up to date?
I build a 7 Inch with 1300KV Motors (2807).
When cruising arroung I get values below 200 mAh.
In the first Run, I landed after 21 Minutes, with 2500 mAh Used and 3.7 Voltes left.
Battery was a 6s1P 5000mAh with 21700 Cells from GNB
@@vhudxbjv i actually did an update jiT a few months ago where I tested 18650 & 21700 packs.
ruclips.net/video/EcUCdOszF9U/видео.html
Check it out and let me know your thoughts, cheers!
Very helpful test data. I am running emax 2807 1700kv motors and will settle for 5S1P molicel p42a.
What props have you settled on? Looking forward to that video.
Why arent many running bi blade like HQ 7x4.5 ? someone cliamed he cant get rid or the jello.
Please recommend me some props shortly. Tanks
Honestly the favorite props are HQ J75 props. They’re a 7x5x3 prop that give really nice control and cruising speed.
2-blade props always felt underwhelming to me, like I have less thrust and control. High pitched 3-blade prop are obviously less efficient, but with these huge 8Ah packs flight time and distance is never an issue for me, enough to easily fly 14km (8 miles).
After trying p42a in 5S1P and 4S2P configuration, I am thinking of trying 6S1P next.
They felt pretty similar. The 5s1p are light. The 4s2p deliver more current, but are pretty heavy.
I keep coming back to your video to compare your results.
What I'd really like to know, why you chose the 1500kv motors?
I've tried 1700kv 2807, but they draw too high current at low throttle.
Now I've switched to 1300kv. On 4S2P 1500kv motors might be better though 🤔
I picked 1500kv simply because I couldn’t decide between 1700 and 1900… however literally just yesterday I got a set of 1300kv that I’ll be testing next month. Curious to see how they compare. For my current setup I really like 21700 6s2p, but recently made a 18650 6s2p pack which I really like. It’s 300g lighter, and has less capacity, but I still get 13km round trips out of it, and it the quad flys noticeably better. I try to make a part 2 to this video, stay tuned, cheers!
Good comparison. But you really need to switch to measuring in WattHours instead of AmpHours when comparing efficiencies of different voltage packs.
Very good point! I was manually calculating it when reviewing things but I’ll set that up for the future video. Thanks for the tip!
Really amazing! Could you tell what firmware&release is installed in your FC?
Thanks appreciate the comment. Not sure what I was running when I made this video, but I’m running BF4.3 now a days.
A very helpful and informative video. Thank you
Absolutely, I made some lighter 18650 packs and need to do a follow up video at some point, but thanks for watching and appreciate the comment. Cheers!
Thanks for your job!! From BRAZIL!! By the way wich antenna do you recommend for chimera long range ? BARDPOLE Would be good? Thanks
Appreciate the comment! For the Control Link I found the Bardpole worked good, but i Highly Recommend a diversity RX.
I currently run 2.4ghz ELRS Diversity at only 100mW and have near perfect LQ even out 7km, and only using standard di-pole antennas. Cheers!
looking to make a pack with the new mollicell p45b 4.5Ah 45A max discharge when they finally release
Yea those P45b cells look promising, hoping I can find a retailer in Norway when they are released.
@@GiantAntCowboy not seen any supplies yet in the UK
Yea, I think they’re still in testing, but they should be ready soon if imagine. I’m actually heading to the UK tomorrow morning, I’ll be down in Cornwall for a few days. So don’t be surprised if you see some Cornish footage in upcoming videos. 👍
Nkon in NL sells the
P45a cells. Pretty expensive
With just the battery packs 6s2p I'm getting 1.5kg on my set up and your chimera frame weighs more than mine. And you have a go pro on board wow? Where did all my extra weight come from on these 21700 packs
My quad weight 1700g AUW with GoPro. So yours sounds about the same actually.
For shorter missions I’ve started using 18650 6s2p packs (Rated: 5200mAh/70A) made with Molicel p26a, p28a cells are an even better option, saves about 300g and the pack itself fits nicer on the quad.
Let me know if that’s what you meant.
@@GiantAntCowboy right right I've just a few days ago built a p28a 18650 pack to try out so far I like it I may build an other not sure
@@elxero2189 yea, I love how it fits on the quad nicer, and also the 300g weigh savings I noticeable.
@@GiantAntCowboy yeah I noticed that too much lower flight time though but as you've said, it's for shorter missions
@@elxero2189 yea I think I’ve managed 13km, up a mountain and back with the 5200mah pack. So the larger pack is much better for cruising and “scouting missions”.
Awesome video.
Regards from South Africa.
Keep on living your dreams.
Thanks bud, appreciate that! Cheers!
Hi what is the characteristic for 6S compare to 4S2P in term of flight time and speed
Do you mean a 6s1p vs a 4s2p?
Giant ant cowboy i live in Maine near the white mountains in the USA. I was wondering if you would share any of your STLs from your antennna mounts. I wish for a day you could come fly the white mountains and Mount Washington with me than I could go there and fly your mountains. Also do you have w written guide on making my own Lions i buy mine right now and they are so costly
Hey appreciate the comment. Yea I wish I had time to just travel and fly different spots all over the world. What a thrilling experience it is to fly mountains and different landscapes!
Which STLs are you looking for? Like which antennas?
Regarding DIY batteries, I made a simple video about this which might be useful:
ruclips.net/video/hnjgdUU3x5A/видео.html
My favorite cells are Molicel P42a or P45b of building a large 21700 packs. And Molicel P28a cells if you want a lighter 18650 pack. Should be easy to get in the USA.
Soldering batteries is no big deal, BUT you do not want to over heat them or connect them wrong. So:
- Touch the cell with your finger while soldering and stop when it get warm. Work quickly, and take breaks to cool them as needed.
- Makes sure all cells have the same voltage before you start soldering, ideally below 3.6v. This drastically reduces any risks involved when making these packs.
Remember to take your time and make sure everything is wired properly; use a multimeter to check the pack. Happy flying, cheers!
Very detailed and informative. Thank you.
Appreciate the comment, hopefully it’s useful to some people. Cheers!
sorry but i really dont understand, can a 90A battery burn a 50A esc like the speedybee f405v3 with 35.22A motors like IFlight XING-E Pro 2207 1800KV and how can I connect thoes 12 batteryes together?
• So a 50A ESC is the per motor rating, meaning that the ESC will actually handle up to 200A.
• The Li-Ion battery I’m using will handle up to 90A for short periods of time. If you try to pull more it will damage the battery, and maybe even catch fire in extreme cases.
• I build all my Li-Ion packs using Molicel Batteries and a Soldering iron. Here a quick DIY Video I made years ago - ruclips.net/video/hnjgdUU3x5A/видео.html
Hope that all makes sense, thanks for watching!
Do you land at 2.8? My samsung packs never give the full capacity until 2.8, probably discharge current is a bit too high for those at 12A
Ideally I land before 3v, but my 4s battery packs are so worn out from a lot of abuse that they drop below 3v at like 80% capacity… I’ve killed these packs several times and have done high Amp maneuvers many times, so they aren’t in good shape any more. But still great batteries!
Hey I guess I am impatient to watch the whole video. Which ones would you conclude are the most efficient for LR?
Sure, no worries. Most efficient longest flight time at slow speed was the 4s2p packs. If you skip to the last test it shows a comparison of my 4s2p vs 6s2p when doing gentle cruising.
There’s a lot of variables of course and you’re setup will be different than mine but these were my results. Cheers
Awesome information I subbed
Thanks, appreciate the support. I’m actually about to post an update to this video with some new battery setups, so stay tuned. Cheers!
P.s. just posted the update to this video:
“18650 vs. 21700 Li-Ion Packs 6s2p”
ruclips.net/video/EcUCdOszF9U/видео.html
hy i've got some sony murata 3100 mah 35A curent cells to make a 6s2p pack , my concern i about how many nichel strips do i need to get 35A per series pack (35 per pack will lead to 70A discharge total 2p config), i have some 0.2x8 mm pure nichel strip that i've heard and tried that it doesn't like to stack multiple layers, and some nichel plated steel that weld better more buttery. Are 4 layers enough ? should i alter the strips to have steel nichel steel nichel ... also i think it is better to connect the cells in paralel at each joint of 2 parallel cells but i ask just to be sure
To be honest, I’ve never Spot Welded Nickel strips. I always solder mine. It’s a little more time consuming but I prefer to use Copper wire as it’s 4x more conductive than Nickel. (Also I don’t have a spot welder…)
So unfortunately I’m not the best resource for this question. Definitely thicker is better. I often hear people complaining hot poor performing Li-Ion packs and suspect those packs are made with too thin Nickel strips.
Keep me posted on how it works out though, always curious. Cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy That was a fast response :)) i didn't considered soldering as i've heard that heat damage the cells so i though to go on the safer side spot welding them. I would also be more comfortable with soldering them, i don't know if those spot welds will create enough surface area of contact betwen the first strip and the cell tab
@@alexandrugroza839 yea I’ve soldered a dozen packs and have used them for years. I run them pretty hard as well and have had no issues.
The key to soldering is working in stages. Sand & clean each terminal before starting. Use Flux. Tinning might take a couple tries, but hold a finger on the battery and stop when it start to feel warm. Just move to the next one.
Important:
- Check that each cell is around 3.5v before soldering them together.
- The outside of the cell is Ground (-) so be careful when soldering (+) terminals, and make sure the insulation on the (+) terminals is intact.
Here’s a basic DIY I made years ago showing the process.
ruclips.net/video/hnjgdUU3x5A/видео.html
@@GiantAntCowboy thanks!
Hi “Ant” which would you choose for the Chimera 7” 1300kv
Auline 3300 45c $100 432g
Ovionic 3300 75c $77 500g
That’s 6s Lipo in Australia $ 😊👍
I don’t actually know Ovionic, so I’d have to say Auline, 45c is plenty and 70g weight savings is a lot. However it is $23 more…
Have you thought about getting or making Li-Ion packs?
That’s for that yes I was heading towards the Auline … I just put a GoPro session 5 on my chimera but got a lot of gyro noise in Gyroflow
But the air unit recording was stable …so it looks like the GoPro is picking up vibration but the quad sounds sweet and flys smooth
Any idears I know it’s a bit off topic
Cheers Phil 😊
A couple things to check:
- The GoPro mount should be firm and tight.
- Install a new set of props if you have some. A slightly bent prop can cause a lot of noise.
- Really you should record and review Blackbox logs and see how noisy your craft is; Not sure if you’ve done this before.
- If your quad is noisy/has a lot of vibration and you can fix it, then you might actually have ignore my first suggestion and make the GoPro mount soft. Some people make a GoPro mount with zip ties that act like leaf springs.
Let me know what you find out 👍
@@GiantAntCowboy thanks for your advice .. it’s a new build all new props good quality TPU GoPro mount … the raw footage is smooth and the video link is smooth
I will try soft mount for GoPro
And I really should get into black box logging just seems a bit overwhelming lol
Thanks for your help 😊👍
I got some Lishen 45a 21700 cells a few months ago. Hoping to make a 4s2p pack with it, using 1700kv motors! Will probably need to limit my throttle! I wonder if you flying in a colder environment allows you to abuse the batteries a little more because they dont get dangerously hot?
It is normal for lion warmed for 60°C, don't worry if it happens)
One thing I didn't realize (at least to this extent) with liion, the more current you pull, the less mAH you will be able to get out of the pack (by hundreds of mAH). Same goes for cold weather. There are charts out there but I had a new liion that I pulled 3900mah out of (200mah less than capacity) flying chill on a warm day, and another guy with a similiar pack pulling more amperage on a cold day had a flat dead pack at 600-700mah less than capacity.
You should not have to limit your throttle or motor output for that 4s2p setup. Heat is definitely the enemy, and in hotter environments you will see some degraded performance. But if you keep the Amps below the Max output you should fine. Do some tests and feel to the batteries to be sure and get used to how the setup works. Thanks for watching, cheers!
Hi dude, thanks for your video! I was flying at some really high peaks around 25000ft, using 8000mah 6s lipo on my 10inch because I think lipo performs better at -20 degrees, but I'm curious what's the best match for my need if I'm trying Liion next time, probably 6s 3p?
I need the flight time to be as long as possible, will need to cruise 5-6 miles to get to the mountain while the wind can be massive above.
Hey, appreciate the comment. Crazy mountains your flying to sounds like! Where are you flying?
Regarding battery solutions: What’s the average current draw (Amp Range) you have while flying? Some options:
If you made a 6s3p pack with Molicel P42a cells it might weight about 1300g (slightly more than your 8000mAh LiPo) but it’d have 12,600mAh and it’d handle up to 135A.
Or you could use like Sony VTC6 cells in the same 6s3p setup and you’d have 9000mAh with 90A max current, but it’d only weight about 900g. So you’d save between 300-400g which could result in better range.
Alternatively depending on Amp requirements, you could try some 4s setups, which saves a lot of weight, but reduces top-end power due to the higher current demand.
@@GiantAntCowboy Thanks for the suggestions, I'm in China, flying near the Himalayas so the mountains are over 18000ft in average, pretty insane. The flight time at this altitude drops to 60% of what you get at sea level, so the flight time needs to be over 35mins at least. I'm now getting 30mins on my 10" 6s 8ah setup but wanna change it to maybe around 10ah on 8"
Great comparison really helpful
Thanks appreciate the comment!
With wiring the li-ion pack. Doesn't it not matter for balance cables which exact battery its on just like between b1 & b3.. between t3 & t4??? (Except for 1st positive and last negative )
I want to build a Molicel P45B pack 6S2P or 4P. Maybe a 3P 😆 🤣
I believe the order matters when using a balance charger, in fact I believe I actually got an error once when I swapped two leads on mistake. Basically it’s adding the voltage for cell and if, for example, the second cell shows more than double the first cell it thinks there’s a problem. (This shouldn’t be dangerous though.)
** The most dangerous thing that can happen is either overheating the cells while soldering, or accidentally shorting the (+) and (-) terminals of the battery. Remember that the outside of the battery is (-) and if you accidentally bridge solder, or a wire, from the (+) terminal to the battery case you could short the battery which can be dangerous.
Tip: Never work on cells that are fully charged, and always check cells before assembling to ensure they are at a similar voltage.
Sorry… lots of precautions, I just want people to be safe.
I built a proper 6s2p pack using the smaller P26a cells and really like it. Nice size and weight, and can still get about 13km up into the mountains. The P45b cells looks really nice, I haven’t found any of those yet in Norway. Still using the P42a cells. You can certainly make bigger batteries, 3p/4p but since these are flying machines the capacity benefit eventually becomes negative due to weight. “Diminishing Returns”
Curious to see and hear about your projects and findings, cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy meant the 2 batteries connected by a strip. i can just put it in the middle of the strip. might get spot welder might solder strip. not sure. doing a lot of research not to set house on fire lol
Whats the "absolut" longest flighttime with your 6s2p Liion ? Im a little bit confused about your flighttime 6s1p liion because i easily achived 25min with 4000mah, cruising slow as possible (never above 25a)
I could maybe squeeze 25min flight time with my 8400mAh 6S2P, but it would be a boring flight.
What’s your setup?
This is a Chimera 7 with 1500kv motors, carrying a GoPro 8, weighing 1700g.
EMAX sent me a set of 1300kv motors recently that I’ll be testing soon, maybe that’ll help efficiency.
But let me know about your setup, and thanks for watching, cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy after i sleep one night i recognize a significant different, the Distance 🤣 i never reached your Distance you have achieved.
But my Setup is a geprc mark5 with egodrift jetstreams (2407) , 6s1p 4000mah liion and gopro, ~ 1200g
@@Quadtastrophe yea so many variables in this hobby. Impossible to do a perfect comparison.
Weight is a huge factor for efficiency of any flying machine, but also my bigger motors might just consume more power. Thanks for the response.
Wow fantastic video thank you !
Thanks, appreciate the comment!
Thank you for the video, do you run inav or betaflight? If betaflight does gps rescue work pretty good now?
You’re welcome, appreciate the comment. I’m running BF4.3 now, but haven’t really used GPS rescue since I upgraded to the version.
Historical GPS rescue has been a little goofy, but it always came back when it needed too and even saved me a few times. I’ve thought about trying iNav so many times.. but it’s just another thing to set up, as it is I barely have time to go out and fly.
Happy to discuss further, thanks for watching, cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy I tried setting up inav a bit and it looks similar to betaflight but just different enough to mess me up. My hdzero osd was having some glitches too. Characters overlapping or getting stuck. I think I'll flash betaflight again and set that up. Thank you!
@@Jeb223 yea. That’s what I assumed would happen to me… everything in this hobby turns into a huge project.
In other news I’m using the BF4.3 UAV 7”Preset on the Chimera 7 and it does fly noticeably better, of course maybe I just did a crap tune previously…
@@GiantAntCowboy ok excellent, I may have totally copied your build lol
Oh yea, that’s good to know. It’ll be curious to see how ours compare then. I recently switched to ELRS, but getting some interference noise now.
What’s your range goals?
Please compare Wh but not Mah for 4s and 6s.
Yes, some one else mentioned this and that IS a much better comparison tool. Thanks for watching and suggesting this, cheers!
extremely interesting, thank you very much.
Glad you found it informative, appreciate the support, cheers!
I'm very curious to see how your quad would perform if you swapped the 7 inch props for 8 inch props on the 4s setup and see if that would do you better when compared to the 6s with a 7 inch prop... I suspect it would be surprising. yes it's not an apples to apples but if you're chasing better performance or better flight times it's worth wild to attempt this. I'm in the process of testing it myself however my props have yet to arrive
So I don’t think I could fit 8” props, however I have a set of 7.5” props that I’ll be comparing in a man upcoming video. Cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy ah I see. On my tbs source one 7 dead cat I'd have trouble fitting 8 inch as well however I'm going to flip the quad upside down and stagger my props that way it will fit
Those packs look DIY. Did you solder them or spot weld them?
Yup, I use almost exclusively DIY packs. Mine are all soldered “with care” and work great.
Generally I hear the argument that Spot Welding is better or the only way to go but have never had any issues with mine.
Additionally I’ve heard many people with Spot Welded packs complain about over heating… part of me wonders if the thin nickel strips cause too much resistance at higher amp loads.
Nickel is much less conductive that copper. According to IACS copper is 100% and Nickel is only 22%.
I made a quick simple DIY video a while back if curious what I do:
ruclips.net/video/hnjgdUU3x5A/видео.html
Happy to answer questions about the DIY or different pack setups, cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy thanks for the reply. I agree the high current is a problem. I was going to spot weld using a coper nickle sandwich but now I think I'll do a solder through a hole in a thicker copper plate.
@@senditsamfpv I just use like 12awg wire soldered between, copper plates could certainly work.
One word of caution: the body of the battery is Ground (-) so be careful when soldering the Positive (+) not to accidentally bridge the (+) connections to the battery body… hope that makes sense.
Interesting stuff. I have built a 4S1P P42A pack for my 6" build. I think I can keep it under 45A most of the time. I've not flown it yet. You say that things go bad if you draw too much current. How bad? Is it ball-of-fire bad like with a Lipo, or a little less extreme?
Oh and another question. You flew with 2P packs as well. Are they just two of your 1P packs wired with a parallel XT60 lead, or a permanent 2P pack?
If you exceed 45A your voltage will sag/drop very quickly, and the cells will start to get hot. If you do this briefly, like a quick blip, it’s normally fine, but if you continue to push the pack it will get very hot and could theoretically catch fire, but would probably just lose power and crash. Repeatedly exceeding the max Amp output rating will damage the cells, increase internal resistance, and reduce their total capacity.
Yup, my 2P packs are just two 1P packs wired together with an XT60 adapter. I should have talked about this in the video. Thanks for watching, stay tuned for follow up videos. Cheers!
Thanks for the responses. Very helpful. I've subscribed.
@@Yith Great, let me know if you have any other questions or comment. Cheers!
Why does 4S fly longer than 6s?
Well, a couple things.
- At 900g, the 6S2P weights 300g more, which is 50% heavier than the 4s setups.
- Also I think I push the 6s packs harder… so the test might not be totally accurate.
Ultimately though weight kills efficiency, especially with anything that flys!
I recently started using 18650 6s2p packs made with Molicel P26a cells. These packs save 300g offer 5200mAh, and can handle up to 70A. You lose a little range compared to the 8000mAh packs, but I still get 13km trips out of them and the quad flys quicker and more nimble.
I’ll try to do a follow up video about this eventually, just been busy!
Thanks for watching, stay tuned, cheers!
do they have BMS?
I do not. Just cells wired together, and so I have to pay closer attention.
Great video, I don’t use LiIon but great place to fly.
Thanks, it truly is a spectacular place for FPV!
I watch your videos from India. At present I don't have access to any of these HDZERO vtx or Chimera frame here, but still your video inspires me and add knowledge to me that if i will make, then how i will make one. Presently have a five inch quad with analog vtx and 14 min flight time.
Thank you, appreciate the nice comment. Analog is simpler, cheaper and still a ton of fun! No need to go digital honestly, but obviously the image is better. Depending on your goals, 5” quads are pretty universal. Li-Ion batteries are great for increasing range, and helical antennas are cheap and easy to make if you need more video range. Thanks for watching, cheers!
Very interesting, thank you!
Thanks for the comment, stay tuned, cheers!
btw is this inav beta or ardu?
This is BF.
btw I tried the 8 inch props.. don't bother lol not worth it
@@elxero2189 haha! Thanks for the update. My experience with the 7.5” props seem to be that they are more efficient but feel slower to respond, but I haven’t done any solid back to back testing yet.
@@GiantAntCowboy I didn't do solid back to back either but the quad feels slower to respond yes have to do wider turns I was trying to maintain constant speed over all I'm noticing the same amo draw at the same speeds. Even though the efficiency numbers at the end of the flight show differences. I can only guess that since ethe only thing I'm changing are the props then I'd get the same power output. The only difference will be at what throttle and what speed. Which changes depending on the prop.
Nice video. Thanks!
Thanks man appreciate the comment. Cheers!
only 7-8 minutes? I see li-ion builds on youtube that get 20-30 or more, why is this one so low?
@@0baakYT with my latest 6s2p builds I’m getting much better flight times. Here’s the updated test which compares 18650 vs 21700 6s2p packs. (Long Range FPV Battery Testing DJI | 30+ Minute Flight Time | 18650 vs. 21700 Li-Ion Packs 6s2p DIY
ruclips.net/video/EcUCdOszF9U/видео.html)
These ones are awesome!
@@GiantAntCowboy sweet man watching now thanks for the reply
Same motors 5s2p on 1180g quad +cyclone7056 ultra!
Nice. Mine is like 1700g with 6s2p, but recently I’ve been using a smaller 5000mAh pack that saves about 300g.
Reducing weight is by far the greatest way to improve flight time and power efficiency with any flying vehicles.
@@GiantAntCowboy For this frame diminishing returns starts to weight hard at over 1200gr, so with minor diferences, really 4s,5s or 6s depends on your preference (and sag tolerability). Props are the most important in maxing the efficiency. Wish someone makes Mavic II Pro type propellers for 5mm shaft :)
Nice tuning, stability on 4s is very telling for a good setup. Care to share PIDs if in INAV?
@@sakarrc5001 yea, for me it’s a mix of handling vs efficiency. Meaning I want decent flight time, but also enough power/thrust to fly fast and hard in the mountains.
Currently I’m using HQ J75 props, not efficient but have great feel.
Regarding PID tune I started using the UAV preset for 7” in BF4.3 a few months ago and really like it. Don’t think I’ve tweaked it since then.
Great! Thanks.
Happy to share, appreciate the comment. Cheers!
Great! Keep working!
Thank you, appreciate the support. Cheers!
I tested 6S4P 18650 on 7" I turn into a 8" a few flights
Nice. Which cells are you using? I made a 6s2p from P26a cells that I really like, it’s my go to battery for fun medium range stuff.
@@GiantAntCowboy they are VTC6 cells
@@GiantAntCowboy I want to make a 6S3P or 4P with molicel P45B
verygood video ..
Thanks always appreciated, cheers!
Cool, thx
Appreciate the comment, cheers!
I hope you are certified
If not id remove the weight part of the video
Could give you some trouble in the future
Happened to me on videos i didnt say i had authorized flights
Dig the video
Have a good one
Thank you, appreciate the comment and support! These videos are really just theoretical tests made using a combination of CGI, creative editing, and of course long hiking trips! However, I’m a certified SCUBA diver if that helps… We do our best not to rattle any cages down at the government offices. Cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy im jelly.scuba diving is awesome
Me running my 2807 1700kv ecos on 6s... 😶
Thanks a beast I’m sure! LiPo or Li-ion generally? Any motor limits set up or anything?
@@GiantAntCowboy I've run it on both, no limits, at the time I just assumed they were 6s capable because the BH equivalent motors were. The motors never got too hot or anything so I just kept running them on 6s, with a 55amp Esc.
Ok just curious. I think unless you’re running at max throttle constantly the motors are perfectly fine on 6s.
I think the battery manufacturers lie to us. I've never seen a 18650 cell that can deliver more than 35A for more than one or two seconds without getting damaged and neither have I seen a high current cell that has more than 2600mAh. For motors over 22mm diameter I would always use 2p packs even if they are a lot heavier. Maybe biblade props can reduce amp draw but they tend to produce a lot of jello in the footage.
The 18650 Molicel cells say 35A max, I recently built a 5.2Ah 6S2P pack with them and I’m very happy with it. Saves about 300g compared to my 21700 8Ah packs, so it flys a bit nicer using less current and I managed a 13km trip the with it the other day.
I run everything in 2P configuration for the most part unless it’s a quick gentle flight, and I prefer high pitch tri-blades. The bi-blades I’ve tried always felt dull, or lacking in thrust power after a dive or tight turn.
Anyway thanks for watching and sharing some insights.
Zang!
Zipp! 🤙
Jason leave that body 😂
Not sure what that means.. cheers?
@@GiantAntCowboy Note sure of the translation 🤔 In fact i just wanted to say you totally look like Jason Statham, with your 3 day beard 🤩
@@in2theair67 I’ll take that. Thanks!