Hello Peter, maybe interesting to know: - The ‘Netherlands Organisation for Applied Scientific Research’ (TNO) does (among many other things) research on dust (I think ‘particulate’ is the correct English term) collecting performance of several tools. These tools can get a license for use in a professional environment. Usually it is a combination of tools, a specific sander and a specific dust extractor for example. Long story short: the Festool RTS 400 REQ with a dust extractor can be used for eight hours (continuously) without reaching the threshold for a healthy working environment. With the dust bag, it can be used for five hours per eight hour workday. I thought that was pretty amazing. :) - Even more amazing is the fact that Festool gets blown out of the water by the Rupes LE71TE with ‘dust bag’ (‘Greentech filter’). After eight hours of use the amount of measured particulate is less than 1/10th of the threshold for safe ‘daily intake’! What is interesting is that there is also a test available with the same sander, but a previous version of their filter. This combination got a license for ‘only’ two hours of use per workday. After improving the filter to what is now their standard (Greentech ) the license got upgraded. The filter apparently is a very important part of the tool from a health standpoint. The tests can be downloaded from the TNO website. For detailed information, check out the PDF’s at the very bottom of each specific toolpage. www.stofvrijwerken.tno.nl/gereedschappen?tested=100345,100344&tools=100579&
Peter, your videos are really informative and i do get it as to why people buy Festool. However, for many of your viewers the Bosch and previously the Titan plunge saw will win every time just because of their infrequent use. For professional such as yourself it would be Festool every time as you are measured on your quality of work. Great videos please keep uploading them, you are better than the TV lately.
The dust collection test sums it up for me. If I were making my living daily from these sorts of tools, the festool would win for me you'd pay more for less clean up. But as I make my living elsewhere and want the best I can afford, the Bosch would be a happy compromise. Would like to see a shakedown between the Festool Domino and Triton's Duo Doweling machine. (just a suggestion)
+Karl Pountney Yep. Oddly, the domino v doweller is the one I had planned, but sadly I'm struggling to get a Doweller that works! Been through 2 so far, suspected 'bad batch' 😕
That dust collection on the festool is very impressive. I know you're paying for it but still, that's a pretty clear and big advantage for some people.
It's great to see (or imagine) jow much work you put in these videos. I hope you keep posting and at somepoint will be able to make some money with this! PS. GREAT JINGLE
I used to think dust collection was an expensive luxury, until I connected my new Trend vacuum up to my Makita tracksaw. It was incredible what a difference it made.
The £200 difference between the Bosch and the Festool sanders is a lot of money, but spread over the life of the tool, I'm starting to think my health is worth it.
Hi Peter. I can not see the difference in sand finish in video. What sander would you recommend for a diy home cabinet refinishing. I am looking for an economical fine finish sander, not worry about dust collection or vibration.
I have two rts 400s one rts 400 qs has been used for 14 years and its still going....replaced the base plates and electric cords a few times....I am thinking of getting the cordless one soon......
Wow, a great side by side comparative test, very surprising that the bosch let itself down so badly with the dust, but there's the cash difference evidence right there!
The Uncle Fester Tool is nicer, but is it 3 times nicer? Call me crazy but I kind of expect some dust when I sand too. If you're working in someone's house you're probably going to have drops down, and vacuum up afterwards too. Good dust collection, or lousy.
First time I have seen the M&M test , try with peanut M & M next time , probably have wider scatter , fun test , is 160 sander your choice for money saving ? On to next video
Think this video makes me want to get an RTS. I'm very sensitive to any dust and I can't put a number on my health. Even if I'm working outside, dust collection is a must. What bothers me is that I need two sanders (DTS/RTS) and can't switch the baseplate. Since the RTS also can get into 90 degree corners, do I even need the DTS if I'm not working on super weird shapes?
With respect to the dust collection test I see 1 flaw, Since the Bosch comes with a vac adapter you should have hooked a vac to the Bosch as well, comparing vac dust extraction to a non vac dust extraction is comparing a apple to an orange. Having said that I think your videos are very informative and I really enjoy watching them. As far as the two sanders go, while the Festool is a fantastic product after watching this video, there just isn't enough difference between the two to justify the cost of the Festool IMO. Thank you again for another fun video.
@@10MinuteWorkshop why not use the same abrasives for both sanders? You didn’t use the Bosch expert abrasive that is designed to be used with that machine. But really the same abrasive should be used to make it a more fair test.
Im really impressed with festool in the dust test! I wonder how much the standard 8 big holes Bosch is using is causing the difference. Maybe there should be a new standard but i have no idea how hard that is to implement. Is there a big tool organisation with all the big brands like the electronic brands have when it comes to format standards?
Sleepydog I think it's pretty clear that the additional holes in the Festool sander and abrasives are making a big difference. No idea about the 'standards' re hole patterns; I suspect it was something that was implemented years ago and has become a de facto 'standard'. I don't think there's been anything stopping any other manufacturer changing the hole pattern, other than lack of inertia/willingness to buck the system and to their own way. 👍
Two things. It’s about the ‘out of the box’ experience and capability; Bosch paper with the Bosh sander, Festool with the Festool. And as well as proprietary hole patters, Festool also has proprietary hook & loop, so you need an interface pad to make third party abrasives stick. But yes, I am doing another with Abranet to see if it makes a difference. 👍
Peter. Quick question. Do you buy these cheap tools yourself or do manufacturers loan them too you. If you buy them then i can imagine your workshop will fast become a power tool storage area and making these videos will become personally expensive for you.
+Richard Rayson I buy everything I review, with my own money, like any punter would. If that ever changes (and I'd be very happy if a manufacturer offered...) I'll make that clear in the video beforehand. I cover this in a little more detail in the 'outro' of tomorrow's video, but part of the plan is to build up a 'cheap' tool collection that I can base my 'tracksaw workshop' series around 👍
By RUclips terms of service you have to disclose the fact in a disclaimer if you receive promotional materials. support.google.com/youtube/answer/154235?hl=en Which is to say you are obligated to say. Personally that fact never concerns me. I've seen plenty of folks slag off on stuff they were given to review on RUclips. If they're shilling that is pretty obvious too.
so the bosch is the winner its 3 times less in price the money you save could buy a earlex vacum for less than £50 also you need a vacume for the festol and festol vacums are expensive you get 3 pads with the bosch the festol you have to spend another £300 with the money you save you could buy more tools ie dril jigsaw and circular saw you can use any sandpaper for the bosch you got to buy festol sandpaper for the festol
There’s no ‘winner’ here unless they suit your needs. If the Bosch does then fantastic. If you value the things that Festool provide then, also fantastic - you’d just better start saving 👍
Hard to say Bosch is cheap tool. in my opinion Festool is much overpriced. Moreover there's a lot of movies with total different results than your so I suppose they are very comparable in daily use but price different is still huge.
I work for a hire company. In suit repairing power tools. I have to say this. Festool isn't as good as people think believe me. Bearings switches. Feild windings.. Good design. But very poor in engineering. I've seen hilti dewalt milwaukee outlast festool. 2 or 3 years more. When the warranty is up 3. 5 years.. Delawt 3 milwaukee 3 to 5. I've seen those last 8 years .heavy work. Festool. No is not worth the money. . Best reliable is hilti dewalt and milwaukee belive it not .
Hello Peter, maybe interesting to know: - The ‘Netherlands Organisation for Applied Scientific Research’ (TNO) does (among many other things) research on dust (I think ‘particulate’ is the correct English term) collecting performance of several tools. These tools can get a license for use in a professional environment. Usually it is a combination of tools, a specific sander and a specific dust extractor for example. Long story short: the Festool RTS 400 REQ with a dust extractor can be used for eight hours (continuously) without reaching the threshold for a healthy working environment. With the dust bag, it can be used for five hours per eight hour workday. I thought that was pretty amazing. :) - Even more amazing is the fact that Festool gets blown out of the water by the Rupes LE71TE with ‘dust bag’ (‘Greentech filter’). After eight hours of use the amount of measured particulate is less than 1/10th of the threshold for safe ‘daily intake’! What is interesting is that there is also a test available with the same sander, but a previous version of their filter. This combination got a license for ‘only’ two hours of use per workday. After improving the filter to what is now their standard (Greentech ) the license got upgraded. The filter apparently is a very important part of the tool from a health standpoint. The tests can be downloaded from the TNO website. For detailed information, check out the PDF’s at the very bottom of each specific toolpage. www.stofvrijwerken.tno.nl/gereedschappen?tested=100345,100344&tools=100579&
![Four Festool Game-changers [Video 433]](/img/1.gif)
Hello Peter, maybe interesting to know:
- The ‘Netherlands Organisation for Applied Scientific Research’ (TNO) does (among many other things) research on dust (I think ‘particulate’ is the correct English term) collecting performance of several tools. These tools can get a license for use in a professional environment. Usually it is a combination of tools, a specific sander and a specific dust extractor for example. Long story short: the Festool RTS 400 REQ with a dust extractor can be used for eight hours (continuously) without reaching the threshold for a healthy working environment. With the dust bag, it can be used for five hours per eight hour workday. I thought that was pretty amazing. :)
- Even more amazing is the fact that Festool gets blown out of the water by the Rupes LE71TE with ‘dust bag’ (‘Greentech filter’). After eight hours of use the amount of measured particulate is less than 1/10th of the threshold for safe ‘daily intake’! What is interesting is that there is also a test available with the same sander, but a previous version of their filter. This combination got a license for ‘only’ two hours of use per workday. After improving the filter to what is now their standard (Greentech ) the license got upgraded. The filter apparently is a very important part of the tool from a health standpoint.
The tests can be downloaded from the TNO website. For detailed information, check out the PDF’s at the very bottom of each specific toolpage.
www.stofvrijwerken.tno.nl/gereedschappen?tested=100345,100344&tools=100579&
Thanks Maarten! That’s really interesting - I’ll definitely take a look! Unfortunately Rupes are quite hard to come by here, but not impossible. 👍👍
Peter, your videos are really informative and i do get it as to why people buy Festool. However, for many of your viewers the Bosch and previously the Titan plunge saw will win every time just because of their infrequent use. For professional such as yourself it would be Festool every time as you are measured on your quality of work. Great videos please keep uploading them, you are better than the TV lately.
+Richard Rayson Thanks Richard! I suspect that's more a reflection in TV than anything, but thanks anyway! 👍
The dust collection test sums it up for me. If I were making my living daily from these sorts of tools, the festool would win for me you'd pay more for less clean up. But as I make my living elsewhere and want the best I can afford, the Bosch would be a happy compromise.
Would like to see a shakedown between the Festool Domino and Triton's Duo Doweling machine. (just a suggestion)
+Karl Pountney Yep. Oddly, the domino v doweller is the one I had planned, but sadly I'm struggling to get a Doweller that works! Been through 2 so far, suspected 'bad batch' 😕
I really like your methodology! Here's to many more videos like this!
Thanks.
Jai Stanley Thanks! 👍
That dust collection on the festool is very impressive. I know you're paying for it but still, that's a pretty clear and big advantage for some people.
Thanks +eggypickle Yep, big difference, even against a pro-grade 'cheap tool' 👍
It's great to see (or imagine) jow much work you put in these videos.
I hope you keep posting and at somepoint will be able to make some money with this!
PS. GREAT JINGLE
+Achim Imboden Thanks! I have a behind the scenes video on the way 👍
This is a perfect example of 'you get what you pay for.'
Regarding vibrations - there is much more improvement what we get into hands than into sanding material.
Good video as always! I like that I only have to wait a day for the next part
+Not my name on youtube Thanks! 👍
I've always liked your videos. Great job and keep up the good work!
thank you Peter for a great video. I can sweep and shopvac a lot of dust for the 180 GBP difference. Festool is beyond compare for dust collection.
That’s fair. Wouldn’t want to do that in someone else’s home though! 👍👍
I used to think dust collection was an expensive luxury, until I connected my new Trend vacuum up to my Makita tracksaw. It was incredible what a difference it made.
The £200 difference between the Bosch and the Festool sanders is a lot of money, but spread over the life of the tool, I'm starting to think my health is worth it.
Hi Peter. I can not see the difference in sand finish in video. What sander would you recommend for a diy home cabinet refinishing. I am looking for an economical fine finish sander, not worry about dust collection or vibration.
Thank you for the video Peter. Again a thorough and informative message!
I have two rts 400s one rts 400 qs has been used for 14 years and its still going....replaced the base plates and electric cords a few times....I am thinking of getting the cordless one soon......
+Hovermotion Yep, Great sanders, but the cordless is tempting... 🤔
Wow, a great side by side comparative test, very surprising that the bosch let itself down so badly with the dust, but there's the cash difference evidence right there!
Thanks! The Bosch did much better when using a mesh-backer abrasive - see video #157 Mirka Abranet Test. 👍👍
The Uncle Fester Tool is nicer, but is it 3 times nicer? Call me crazy but I kind of expect some dust when I sand too. If you're working in someone's house you're probably going to have drops down, and vacuum up afterwards too. Good dust collection, or lousy.
+Paul Frederick Well, lets conclude the series and decide if it's worth 3x the price to you...
Use of Smarties for vibration test was brilliant, new unit of measurment; SPM..Smarties per minute :)
+S7tronic "SPM" - definitely a new unit of vibration measurement 😂
First time I have seen the M&M test , try with peanut M & M next time , probably have wider scatter , fun test , is 160 sander your choice for money saving ? On to next video
Fantastic head to head battle! Good job!
+luke giacobbe Thanks! 👍
Great show!
Think this video makes me want to get an RTS. I'm very sensitive to any dust and I can't put a number on my health. Even if I'm working outside, dust collection is a must. What bothers me is that I need two sanders (DTS/RTS) and can't switch the baseplate. Since the RTS also can get into 90 degree corners, do I even need the DTS if I'm not working on super weird shapes?
I had an older RT that I changed the base plate over to a delta pad, and found I rarely used it. I gave it away last year and don’t miss it. 🤷♂️👍
Peter, it’s great test. Do you expect the same result in dust extraction for ETS and cheaper random orbital?
I haven’t done a definitive test, but generally speaking I expect the Festool to be better than most. 👍
The Bosch does't even come near the Festool, because of it's faulty (i.e. cheap) design.
Golden just bloody golden!
👍👍
With respect to the dust collection test I see 1 flaw, Since the Bosch comes with a vac adapter you should have hooked a vac to the Bosch as well, comparing vac dust extraction to a non vac dust extraction is comparing a apple to an orange. Having said that I think your videos are very informative and I really enjoy watching them. As far as the two sanders go, while the Festool is a fantastic product after watching this video, there just isn't enough difference between the two to justify the cost of the Festool IMO. Thank you again for another fun video.
Watch the video again; both sanders were hooked up to the same dust extractor - as you say, it wouldn’t be any kind of a comparison otherwise!
@@10MinuteWorkshop why not use the same abrasives for both sanders? You didn’t use the Bosch expert abrasive that is designed to be used with that machine. But really the same abrasive should be used to make it a more fair test.
Im really impressed with festool in the dust test! I wonder how much the standard 8 big holes Bosch is using is causing the difference. Maybe there should be a new standard but i have no idea how hard that is to implement. Is there a big tool organisation with all the big brands like the electronic brands have when it comes to format standards?
Sleepydog I think it's pretty clear that the additional holes in the Festool sander and abrasives are making a big difference. No idea about the 'standards' re hole patterns; I suspect it was something that was implemented years ago and has become a de facto 'standard'. I don't think there's been anything stopping any other manufacturer changing the hole pattern, other than lack of inertia/willingness to buck the system and to their own way. 👍
Well done great display, very helpful when buying a new sander...
Thanks! If you’re in the market for a sander you may want to take a look at ‘which sander, when’ video #356. 👍👍
great stuff. subbed.
Thanks, and welcome! Be sure to check out the back catalogue 👍
Another informative video Peter. What did you use for the filler again Peter?
+Ian Rose Thanks! It's a regular one-part plus water Tetrion powder filler, nothing special. 👍
would be epic to do one with a dust extractors cheep vs festool
+Sam Holman Good shout - hadn't thought of that! Might have to come up with some visually-entertaining ways to show relative 'suckage' 😂
In that case maybe battery powered tools as that would make the most sense :)
For the absolute pro, the Festool wins, but for the 99% of other people, the Bosch wins hands down!
Why didn't you use the same type of sanding disc for the test? You will get different results with different sandpaper.
Two things. It’s about the ‘out of the box’ experience and capability; Bosch paper with the Bosh sander, Festool with the Festool. And as well as proprietary hole patters, Festool also has proprietary hook & loop, so you need an interface pad to make third party abrasives stick. But yes, I am doing another with Abranet to see if it makes a difference. 👍
So it essentially comes down to the effectiveness of the dust collection a Festool 'USP'
+Norman Boyes Full roundup in the final episode tomorrow, but sure, in this comparison, that, variable speed, plug-it chord etc... 👍
Have you done a comparison against surprep?
Never heard of it I’m sorry. What is it, a sander manufacturer?
@@10MinuteWorkshop yes, they have a padded sander similar to the festool
Peter. Quick question. Do you buy these cheap tools yourself or do manufacturers loan them too you. If you buy them then i can imagine your workshop will fast become a power tool storage area and making these videos will become personally expensive for you.
+Richard Rayson I buy everything I review, with my own money, like any punter would. If that ever changes (and I'd be very happy if a manufacturer offered...) I'll make that clear in the video beforehand. I cover this in a little more detail in the 'outro' of tomorrow's video, but part of the plan is to build up a 'cheap' tool collection that I can base my 'tracksaw workshop' series around 👍
By RUclips terms of service you have to disclose the fact in a disclaimer if you receive promotional materials. support.google.com/youtube/answer/154235?hl=en Which is to say you are obligated to say. Personally that fact never concerns me. I've seen plenty of folks slag off on stuff they were given to review on RUclips. If they're shilling that is pretty obvious too.
so the bosch is the winner its 3 times less in price the money you save could buy a earlex vacum for less than £50 also you need a vacume for the festol and festol vacums are expensive you get 3 pads with the bosch the festol you have to spend another £300 with the money you save you could buy more tools ie dril jigsaw and circular saw you can use any sandpaper for the bosch you got to buy festol sandpaper for the festol
There’s no ‘winner’ here unless they suit your needs. If the Bosch does then fantastic. If you value the things that Festool provide then, also fantastic - you’d just better start saving 👍
Fairly confident that festool is still made in germany while bosch is made in china.
Hard to say Bosch is cheap tool.
in my opinion Festool is much overpriced. Moreover there's a lot of movies with total different results than your so I suppose they are very comparable in daily use but price different is still huge.
M&Ms ? :) haha
I work for a hire company. In suit repairing power tools. I have to say this. Festool isn't as good as people think believe me. Bearings switches. Feild windings.. Good design. But very poor in engineering. I've seen hilti dewalt milwaukee outlast festool. 2 or 3 years more. When the warranty is up 3. 5 years.. Delawt 3 milwaukee 3 to 5. I've seen those last 8 years .heavy work. Festool. No is not worth the money. . Best reliable is hilti dewalt and milwaukee belive it not .
Festool is clearly better and definitely worth it for those who can afford it.
Go Festool go
+Gamer97 👍
Nice vid but that fast forward noise is terrible.
Hello Peter, maybe interesting to know:
- The ‘Netherlands Organisation for Applied Scientific Research’ (TNO) does (among many other things) research on dust (I think ‘particulate’ is the correct English term) collecting performance of several tools. These tools can get a license for use in a professional environment. Usually it is a combination of tools, a specific sander and a specific dust extractor for example. Long story short: the Festool RTS 400 REQ with a dust extractor can be used for eight hours (continuously) without reaching the threshold for a healthy working environment. With the dust bag, it can be used for five hours per eight hour workday. I thought that was pretty amazing. :)
- Even more amazing is the fact that Festool gets blown out of the water by the Rupes LE71TE with ‘dust bag’ (‘Greentech filter’). After eight hours of use the amount of measured particulate is less than 1/10th of the threshold for safe ‘daily intake’! What is interesting is that there is also a test available with the same sander, but a previous version of their filter. This combination got a license for ‘only’ two hours of use per workday. After improving the filter to what is now their standard (Greentech ) the license got upgraded. The filter apparently is a very important part of the tool from a health standpoint.
The tests can be downloaded from the TNO website. For detailed information, check out the PDF’s at the very bottom of each specific toolpage.
www.stofvrijwerken.tno.nl/gereedschappen?tested=100345,100344&tools=100579&