@Matheus - Haha thank you mate, I really didn't intend to add that clip but it's court level and right behind me, plus the backdrop is perfect to see supination/pronation in action. Is there anything you'd like to see us cover in the near future? All the best Simon
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Hahaha Yeah, I agree that the angle was awesome and you are an awesome player! In terms of the content of the channel, I think that you guys are doing a way better job than I can suggest! Keep 'em comming! All the best from Brazil!
This is such a great explanation and breakdown of the technical elements of the pronation. No matter how many times others may explain using the same words there's nothing like an explanation that helps you also visualize whats going on with the serve. Great video.
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Any advice for how to maintain the continental grip after the racket drop? I find myself and others I know either pronate to early before full arm extension or we switch to the dreaded pancake grip right before ball contact.
There has never been such a detailed and proper explanation of pronation until now! This video instruction will benefit players of all levels. Well done, good sir! Simply relying on the wrist for pronation is a very common mistake and it will cause your serves to be "fluffy", rather than having that explosive sound when the ball comes off the racquet with easy power from proper pronation and timing. Thank you very much for pointing that out!
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial All of your videos are absolutely fantastic and world class! But since you asked; off the top of my head, not sure if you have any videos on grip-size? Racquet technology and Tennis Strokes have changed drastically over the past several years and tour players are using much smaller grip-sizes when compared to what they used in the 90's/80's and earlier. I feel that a proper discussion on this topic would be immensely helpful to the Tennis Community. I also really enjoy your match videos, you can never have enough of those so keep them coming and also perhaps some more equipment discussions such as racquets, strings, customizations, etc. If I think of anything else, I will hit you up. Thanks again mate for your wonderful contributions to the Tennis community! The knowledge that you share, along with fantastic instruction is priceless and more thorough than what you get with most tennis lessons.
Simon you have a talent for articulating how best to explain a point by point explanation of tennis strokes. I've never heard someone break down a complicated process the way you can.
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Yes there is. I would like to learn how to add a two handed backhand to my game. I currently have the old school one handed slice backhand which is effect for keeping the ball low. And a great many opponents are not use to seeing a kniving slice backhand coming at them. But with today's technology and speed of game it would help me to add a power stroke to my backhand side. And I thought a two handed backhand would potentially be more consistent than learning a powerful Top spin one handed backhand. Can you help me with that?
From 7:53 to 8:50 in the video was the key for me. Many tennis coaches say to the throw the ball to simulate service motion but the way you did it focusing on forearm rotation is powerful instruction. I was getting are strain by just trying to throw with the wrist and not focusing on the supination/pronation action of the forearm. Any instruction such as this which makes the swinging of a racquet intuitive and natural is the only way the learn in my opinion. The way you strike the ball in your match play shows you've made the biomechanics of swinging a racquet instinctive. Not many players and coaches can do that. Thank you.
Thank you this explanation is great. I was practicing the serve for a few days and didn't notice I was mainly moving the wrist instead of the arm as explained here. I got tendinitis for almost 2 weeks :( this video helps a lot to see what the movement of the arm need to be, it's really important to learn properly to avoid injury! Also to get a strong serve :)
Thanks for watching. Please don't forget to subscribe to the channel and turn on the notification bell so you get our newest videos as soon as we release them. All the best Simon
Thank you so much for this incredible explanation. The "just throw the ball" to serve explanation never worked for me, because I don't even know how to throw a ball properly. You really helped me understand these concepts, and I can't wait to apply them to the continental grip, which makes so much more sense now! I resorted to using my eastern grip when I couldn't hit it flat with continental. Now I know I wasn't supposed to hit it flat (as in part of my arm) to begin with. Thank you!!
Excellent Video Simon - Thank you. I began to play tennis as an adult, a few years before youtube clips were widely available; you wouldn't believe what a struggle it was to understand and learn the serve technique (even with local coaches). Its really a great privilege to have the full motion displayed in slow motion - plus explained too ! I separate video on the slice serve would be great - I have heard it described using several different techniques (in both take back and contact point). Thank again. Nb Please ignore the odd troll who makes sarcastic comments for the sake of it - your instruction is of the highest standard IMO.
Many thanks for the support John. Here is a video on the slice serve - ruclips.net/video/TzUvhOBrdnM/видео.html As they say, if you don't have haters, you're not doing it right! Any other topics you'd like to see us cover in the near future? All the best Simon
You sir just answered my problem. I love when a coach can use an example of something like throwing the tennis ball and you was completely right. I always throw a ball without flicking my wrist and when I serve, I've been flicking the wrist hence why my wrist is so sore today. With your tennis ball example, I am going to keep that in mind next time I play and I am almost certain my serves will improve to some degree. Thank you, you have just got a sub from me.
Great instruction , lacking real accuracy and power but 60-70% are in the box so getting better. Tried following through more and that really helped with my accuracy , more fluid movement maybe. Thanks Simon
great text and much better the video, never understood before the true extention of pronation in serve, now I can just see how it makes sense, I will start in that tomorrwow! great tutorial.
I finally understand supination using forearm and not my wrist which you explained so well. I can't wait to work on it.Can you please do one on the beginning phrase of serve loading ? I am still confused with front foot back foot loading . i am sure many people will benefit from it. Thanks.
This is excellence. I already knew about this, but it's always needed to be remembered. I always think you should be professional commentators as well, today no one cares about explaining anything related to techniques nor tactics during the maches (because they don't know shit about it, mostly). Luckily, in ESPN (Latin América) we have an ex player commentating who cares about these things sometimes (something is better than nothing, I guess). Every time I hear an US or Europe broadcast it bothers me a lot how many times they just state the obvious. It's vital to teach watching the masters.
Thanks for the lesson! Could you make a video about Kyrgios’s quick serve motion where he hits the ball when it stops for a moment at the peak of the toss? Also the pros and cons compared to the normal motion where we we hit the ball when it’s dropping?
Great video sir. This looks painful to do. It seems to me that putting that much torque on the elbow would lead to some serious injuries if you're not accustom to it. I think it would be prudent to break myself into this technique slowly so my body can build some strength before blasting serves with gusto. Thanks for the video, i learned a lot.
Thank you Simon. I want to ask more like how do you change the grip quickly for forehand and backhand during the game, and more over for the the slice ?
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial a couple of weeks ago, I joined a tennis stage with a new coach. He complimented me for the technique asking me who my trainer is. Surprised by the answer 😀TTT
Simon, Fantastic video! I’m curious about when the supination occurs. Do you begin to supinate at the top of the swing, when you begin the racket drop! Thanks!
It typically starts as you leave the trophy pose phase, but some players start the supination of the forearm prior to that position, so when they reach the power position they’re already supinating
Hi Simon, what's the point of the full pronation? doesn't simple pronation give you the same power or does the full pronation give you the extra pop? I really struggle with the full pronation, it doesn't feel natural to me, more like I'm forcing it... Any ideas?
Hi Christopher Full pronation does two major things: 1. It allows you to accelerate fully during the contact zone in the most natural way, without stressing your wrist/elbow 2. It allows you to finish the serve with a relaxed and fluid motion, again not stressing the arm in an unnecessary way. If you only pronate up to the point of contact, you will then finish with the wrist most likely flexing and this can lead to injuries if done at high speeds on a consistent basis. It takes time to master pronation on the serve. I suggest using progressive drills that will help you get the correct mechanics and build up the speed slowly. Serving from the service box is a great way to start, place your racket on edge (supination) and work solely on pronating the arm to make contact. Speed isn't important when you are getting the feel. Once you start feeling that motion you can progress further in the court and increase the swing length. All the best Simon
Top Tennis Training - Pro Tennis Lessons - Thank you for answering, and for your time. I really appreciate your work and I find it like call it : “ top tennis “ .! Very good job. Really helps me . About the answer, I will never thought ... Is strange. Couches teach players to do this? I mean every single player that I see , do this “ routine “. ( Maybe Nadal , it was like me! -didn’t know it for a while). Best regards!
The body bending as in shoulder over shoulder? It definitely impacts pronation, but plenty of players use shoulder over shoulder but don’t pronate properly. So it’s not the pre determining factor
Ok so I've been playing tennis for some time and my brother is getting into it now so I've been helping him learn how to play, would it be more beneficial for me to try and get him serving properly from the start of with just a basic slap serve like was shown at the start of the video? The reason I ask is because I can serve properly but for years as a kid before I started lessons etc I had already taught myself how to serve but then I had so many bad habits it was very hard when I did start playing at a club and getting lessons, he's not interested in lessons or joining my club yet as he thinks he needs to get better before he can join 🤷
I would get him doing a basic beginner style serve for now, let him have success with it, getting it in is the main thing. If he feels that success, he may end up going for lessons and working on a proper motion but the drive has to come from him. Get it in, he’ll feel good and be more motivated to play more. All the best Simon
The problem with me and many low intermediate is that, even with a continental grip, there is a tendency to open the racquet face too early and miss the supranation part. Any tips would be appreciated.
If you're using a true continental grip, it's very hard to open the racket face. Make sure you're using the real continental grip and not switching grips during the motion. Also, use progressions, that will help your body feel the motion. Thanks for watching. Are there any videos you'd like to see from us in the near future? Simon
Well, I don’t agree with that. Many WTA players pronate into contact and stop, limiting their range of motion and ability to accelerate the racket properly through the strike zone. Full pronation occurs after contact, resulting in the racket face turning towards the right side of the court
Hi Simon, I am not pronating fully. I am only pronating halfway (neutral position). Full pronating should be natural right? Do you know why I’m not pronating all the way naturally? I am able to pronate enough to hit the ball but not afterwards.
Top Tennis Training - Pro Tennis Lessons yeah I actually realized that I was pronating fully. I just sometimes wasn’t hitting the ball in the right spot. Just need to make my toss more consistent. I did watch you latest vid. Keep it up! I want to see another match with you and Yoan!
Hello, i use a continental grip on serve however i notice myself pronating my wrist prior to the trophy position. Whenever i try to wait to last minute to pronate i tend to miscue, so essentially, i start continental but as i release the toss ive already twisted my wrist left so when i reach contact point im flat, does this make sense?
Yes you need to work on keeping the string bed pointing down or towards you on the takeback for that you need to have your wrist relaxed throughout that phase. All the best, Alex
I know I'm late to the party, but does pronating add or reduce (or neither) shoulder strain? I ask because I'm trying to get back into the game after at least a decade off (old, out of shape guy here at almost 43), and I'm having major shoulder pain when attempting to serve, along with major consistency issues. I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong, whether I'm pronating correctly/enough (among other things), and in turn, whether or not my shoulder should feel like it wants to jump out of the socket during a serve when pronating correctly. Thank you in advance for any responses!
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Okay, that sounds much better. I'll try to make sure I'm concentrating on getting that forearm around, as well as work on other form-based issues. Cheers!
Pronation allows you to speed up the racket during the contact zone without stressing your wrist/elbow/shoulder and allows for a full range of motion through the throwing action. Pros pronate on all serves
Would you recomend going 100% on your first serve, or may be a littlebit less since it may enter in more frequently, and its not that risky as to hace to second serve more?
I suggest going full out on your serve when it's working, if you are having a good serving day, go for it. When it's not working, lower the speed and increase the spin rate, even on the first serve. Aim for bigger targets and build up some consistency, often when my students do this (and myself) the timing of the motion returns and you can start going for more. Consistency is key, every day is different and you need to find a solid base on any given day. All the best Simon
Absolutely. If you flex the wrist after contact (snap the wrist) it can lead to many injuries. Thanks for watching. Please don't forget to subscribe to the channel and turn on the notification bell so you get our newest videos as soon as we release them. All the best Simon
Hey Simon, was looking for a re-cap on serve pronation and re-watched this video. Oldie but a goodie! Technical strings question: do you think strings (& tension) make a big difference on serve pronation power? I mean, if I have Alu Power strings at 60 in one racquet & Wilson Multifilament at 50 another same racquet, do you think there would be much difference with the speed of the actual serve? Thanks
The tension/string elasticity will definitely impact the speed to some degree but normally it would be minimal. A few MPH in each direction. The real difference in power will come from your technique and RHS. All the best Simon
Hi Robert The best way to improve your racket drop is to increase your range of motion in the shoulder joint. It's also a great idea to work on your serve from that racket drop to help your body feel what you want to happen. All the best Simon
Is pronation just passively happening because of the motion of other parts of the body, or do we force it by arm muscles? ... I bet the answer is the former. And in order to produce speed and power, it has to be. How much of the details of the motion of your body, arm, and racket, including pronation, are you consciously aware, when you're doing a serve? For example, the racket face, the elbow position, the trajectory of the racket head at every stage of serve. We can check these from super slow motion, but how much of those details are you actually aware during a serve? ... I bet most of your attention is towards the ball and you don't really have time to worry about this many things. So pretty much everything is half auto-pilot after a lot of practices.
Pronation is happening because of good throwing mechanics and using the correct grip, as I demonstrate in this video. At first, when someone is learning pronation, you might have to isolate the motion and "force" it to begin with. When I say force it, I mean you are very much aware of the motion happening and you consciously use the muscles of the arm to use full pronation. After you master that motion, you won't have to think about it. It will already be a habit. Everything comes down to training in a smart way, using steps to master each element of the serve. Something our serve revolution course is built on. Thanks for watching. Please don't forget to subscribe to the channel and turn on the notification bell so you get our newest videos as soon as we release them. All the best Simon
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Thanks for the great answer. Many videos show about details of motion, but strangely I haven't come across one clearly talking about the difference between the "forced" learning phase and automated phase after learning. Maybe, you take this for granted as a coach, but it's good to hear the confirmation! Prior to starting tennis, I had read the book "Inner game of tennis" by Timothy Gallway (I bet you've heard of it) and it improved my musical instrument performance. Strictly following the concept of "Inner Game", just using focus and concentration should be enough for your body to instinctively find the right way. But I was overwhelmed by the difficulty of serve (perhaps, it worked for my forehand stroke though), and thought there was no way I could "instinctively" reinvent modern tennis serve. So I started consciously forcing pronation with video recording. After a few months, it seems my arm has learned what pronation is like. But the whole motion of serve is still far from fluidness (so it's slow and week), and now I need to "forget" details to make it automatic. And at this stage, the "Inner Game" concept appears to be helpful just as it did for my music playing...
I read the inner game and to be honest I found it didn't work for me at all. Letting go and allowing the body to "feel" works if you know what you're looking for. I read it as a junior and again later when I started coaching and in both cases, I felt I got nothing from the book. I've read a few tennis books that have really helped me, one was focused on breathing and tracking the ball. That's the best tennis book I've ever read, it helped me instantly.
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Wow, thank you for the reply! It's a very strong NO, but you tried it twice, so fair enough. The author wrote the "inner game" series for golf, ski and musical instruments, so I thought I can't ignore it. But nobody seems to talk about it on RUclips. BTW, is that book worked for you a secret?????? I'm really curious....
I know this is out of the topic but in my forehand backswing, I take the recquet to high which leads to late contact and when I try to take a short backswing, it automatically changes again while playing matches. What would recommend?
That's very normal, when we play matches we play on auto-pilot. You need to do enough repetitions of your new swing until that becomes the habit. Most studies say that it takes between 2,500-5,000 reps of the new swing until it can become a habit. All the best Simon
Thank you for watching. It does take time and practice to get this motion mastered, but it's worth it! Are there any lesson you would like to see in the near future? All the best Simon
It takes time and doing the right sort of drills. I suggest using progressive drills that will help you get the correct mechanics and build up the speed slowly. Serving from the service box is a great way to start, place your racket on edge (supination) and work solely on pronating the arm to make contact. Speed isn't important when you are getting the feel. Once you start feeling that motion you can progress further in the court and increase the swing length. Let me know how that goes, All the best Simon
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficialhi you didn’t mention the important key which is the role of non-hitting arm. Withou aware of it. The pronation will never happen naturally
@@taivan3697 If you want to mention the role of the non-hitting arm pulling down and away from the ball, then you'd also have to include the shoulder over shoulder motion, the leg drive which initiates the entire kinetic chain, the uncoiling of the upper body etc, it becomes a different lesson
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial thanks so much bro. I mean that tucking non-hitting arm shall help pronation. If not, you will overrotate and then push the ball
It takes time to master pronation on the serve. I suggest using progressive drills that will help you get the correct mechanics and build up the speed slowly. Serving from the service box is a great way to start, place your racket on edge (supination) and work solely on pronating the arm to make contact. Speed isn't important when you are getting the feel. Once you start feeling that motion you can progress further in the court and increase the swing length. Let me know how that goes, All the best Simon
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Agreed. My English could be better. Refund? Joke being it's free content and I shouldn't comment they way I have? Or is your meaning I have to pay to get a video with the content I suggested?
You’re complaining about me explaining the motion in detail (which many people wanted and loved btw) on a lesson that is free. There are plenty of other videos on the channel showing drills and exercises for the serve. You can watch them, for free and learn. You’re welcome
Great videos Thomas. Question for you: My son hard time "hitting on Edge" with his serve (he ALWAYS "waiters trays" it). I'm thinking about switching his grip to a more OPEN grip as it forces an "on edge" motion at the peak....I know the CONTINENTAL grip is the golden rule...so do you think this is a good idea?
Thomas? Not sure who that is 🤣 Changing the grip towards a more eastern forehand grip would make things worse. It’s better to keep the continental and work on keeping the racket on edge for longer in the trophy position. For any of my students who has had that issue, I always go back to trophy position work and don’t progress beyond mastering the correct throwing mechanics before we move on to a full serve. You have to be able to walk before you can run. Good luck with the improvements, All the best Simon
Do you want more help with your serve? Watch our FREE video lessons here -
www.top-tennis-training.com/serve-revolution-youtube/
Can you do this underhanded? ( I ask because I play pickleball and serves can only be underhanded.)
@@noexitnoproblem6037 if you play tennis you can not do that hahah sorry
Simon: "so let's see the pros in this position"
- includes a video of himself
That's acurate, Simon. I mean it!
Great video, keep it up.
Matheus Ferro Kunii lol you beat me to this comment
@@bigboybrayden5236 hahahaha I looked in the comment section before commenting, too! Nice thinking, bro.
@Matheus - Haha thank you mate, I really didn't intend to add that clip but it's court level and right behind me, plus the backdrop is perfect to see supination/pronation in action.
Is there anything you'd like to see us cover in the near future?
All the best
Simon
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Hahaha Yeah, I agree that the angle was awesome and you are an awesome player!
In terms of the content of the channel, I think that you guys are doing a way better job than I can suggest! Keep 'em comming!
All the best from Brazil!
This is such a great explanation and breakdown of the technical elements of the pronation. No matter how many times others may explain using the same words there's nothing like an explanation that helps you also visualize whats going on with the serve. Great video.
Many thanks 🙏
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Any advice for how to maintain the continental grip after the racket drop? I find myself and others I know either pronate to early before full arm extension or we switch to the dreaded pancake grip right before ball contact.
Tape your hand in the continental grip and practice serves with tape holding your hand in place
Excellent explanation and demonstration of pronation. No further instruction required.
Many thanks 🙏
There has never been such a detailed and proper explanation of pronation until now! This video instruction will benefit players of all levels. Well done, good sir!
Simply relying on the wrist for pronation is a very common mistake and it will cause your serves to be "fluffy", rather than having that explosive sound when the ball comes off the racquet with easy power from proper pronation and timing. Thank you very much for pointing that out!
Thanks for watching Stephen.
Any videos you'd like to see from us in the near future?
Simon
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial All of your videos are absolutely fantastic and world class! But since you asked; off the top of my head, not sure if you have any videos on grip-size? Racquet technology and Tennis Strokes have changed drastically over the past several years and tour players are using much smaller grip-sizes when compared to what they used in the 90's/80's and earlier. I feel that a proper discussion on this topic would be immensely helpful to the Tennis Community. I also really enjoy your match videos, you can never have enough of those so keep them coming and also perhaps some more equipment discussions such as racquets, strings, customizations, etc. If I think of anything else, I will hit you up.
Thanks again mate for your wonderful contributions to the Tennis community! The knowledge that you share, along with fantastic instruction is priceless and more thorough than what you get with most tennis lessons.
One of the best instructions on pronation serve, as it’s clear and easy to understand for a difficult technique. Thank you.
Thanks for watching
Are there any lessons you would like to see in the near future?
All the best
Simon
Great tutorial, serving is actually just like throwing a baseball, same pronation. Kudos!
Glad it was helpful!
Are there any lessons you would like to see in the near future?
All the best
Simon
Simon you have a talent for articulating how best to explain a point by point explanation of tennis strokes. I've never heard someone break down a complicated process the way you can.
Thank you for watching.
Are there any videos you'd like to see from us in the near future?
All the best
Simon
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Yes there is. I would like to learn how to add a two handed backhand to my game. I currently have the old school one handed slice backhand which is effect for keeping the ball low. And a great many opponents are not use to seeing a kniving slice backhand coming at them. But with today's technology and speed of game it would help me to add a power stroke to my backhand side. And I thought a two handed backhand would potentially be more consistent than learning a powerful Top spin one handed backhand. Can you help me with that?
Jackpot Simon. I practiced that supination to pronation ball toss up to the serve ball and voila the missing power in my serve. Awesome.
Great to hear and thanks for watching.
Are there any videos you'd like to see from us in the near future?
Simon
From 7:53 to 8:50 in the video was the key for me. Many tennis coaches say to the throw the ball to simulate service motion but the way you did it focusing on forearm rotation is powerful instruction. I was getting are strain by just trying to throw with the wrist and not focusing on the supination/pronation action of the forearm. Any instruction such as this which makes the swinging of a racquet intuitive and natural is the only way the learn in my opinion. The way you strike the ball in your match play shows you've made the biomechanics of swinging a racquet instinctive. Not many players and coaches can do that. Thank you.
No doubt this is the best explanation on the tennis serve pronation! Great job!
Thank you so much for the support Peter.
Is there anything you'd like to see us cover in the near future?
All the best
Simon
Thank you this explanation is great. I was practicing the serve for a few days and didn't notice I was mainly moving the wrist instead of the arm as explained here. I got tendinitis for almost 2 weeks :( this video helps a lot to see what the movement of the arm need to be, it's really important to learn properly to avoid injury! Also to get a strong serve :)
Thanks for watching.
Please don't forget to subscribe to the channel and turn on the notification bell so you get our newest videos as soon as we release them.
All the best
Simon
Thank you so much for this incredible explanation. The "just throw the ball" to serve explanation never worked for me, because I don't even know how to throw a ball properly. You really helped me understand these concepts, and I can't wait to apply them to the continental grip, which makes so much more sense now! I resorted to using my eastern grip when I couldn't hit it flat with continental. Now I know I wasn't supposed to hit it flat (as in part of my arm) to begin with. Thank you!!
This is now my reference vid on serve pronation - best breakdown / explanation available
Thank you for watching
Any lessons you would like to see in the near future?
All the best
Simon
Excellent Video Simon - Thank you. I began to play tennis as an adult, a few years before youtube clips were widely available; you wouldn't believe what a struggle it was to understand and learn the serve technique (even with local coaches). Its really a great privilege to have the full motion displayed in slow motion - plus explained too ! I separate video on the slice serve would be great - I have heard it described using several different techniques (in both take back and contact point). Thank again. Nb Please ignore the odd troll who makes sarcastic comments for the sake of it - your instruction is of the highest standard IMO.
Many thanks for the support John.
Here is a video on the slice serve - ruclips.net/video/TzUvhOBrdnM/видео.html
As they say, if you don't have haters, you're not doing it right!
Any other topics you'd like to see us cover in the near future?
All the best
Simon
Thanks for this great explanation that makes it easier to comprehend. I've been struggling with my serve for years lol
Glad to help!
Thanks for the videos brother, I'm getting better at tennis thanks to your videos and explanations
Thank you Edison for watching and the support.
Any videos you'd like to see from us in the near future?
Simon
Your the best tennis channel ive ever seen
Thank you for the support 🙏
Are there any lessons you would like to see in the near future?
All the best
Simon
You sir just answered my problem. I love when a coach can use an example of something like throwing the tennis ball and you was completely right. I always throw a ball without flicking my wrist and when I serve, I've been flicking the wrist hence why my wrist is so sore today. With your tennis ball example, I am going to keep that in mind next time I play and I am almost certain my serves will improve to some degree. Thank you, you have just got a sub from me.
This is also very helpful for badminton players too cause it's really hard to find a good pronation video for badminton on youtube thanks
Glad it was helpful!
I was failing do apply pronation for about two years. This video opended my mind. If I can finally do pronation correctly I´ll be your fan !
Thanks for watching.
Are there any videos you'd like to see from us in the near future?
All the best
Simon
Awesome lesson on pronating on the serve. Thanks!
Thank you for watching 👍
Are there any lessons you would like to see in the near future?
All the best
Simon
Great instruction , lacking real accuracy and power but 60-70% are in the box so getting better. Tried following through more and that really helped with my accuracy , more fluid movement maybe. Thanks Simon
Thank you for watching
Are there any lessons you would like to see in the near future?
All the best
Simon
great text and much better the video, never understood before the true extention of pronation in serve, now I can just see how it makes sense, I will start in that tomorrwow! great tutorial.
Thanks for watching.
Any other topics you'd like to see us cover in the near future?
All the best
Simon
Very helpful video. My instructor has been teaching me this serve. It's difficult, but I have made some progress. Looking forward to my nest lesson.
Thank you for watching 👍
Are there any lessons you would like to see in 2021?
All the best
Simon
Vous avez été très explicite et pédagogique Thank U guy
Merci d'avoir regardé.
Y a-t-il des leçons que vous aimeriez voir dans un avenir proche?
Bonne chance
Simon
I finally understand supination using forearm and not my wrist which you explained so well. I can't wait to work on it.Can you please do one on the beginning phrase of serve loading ? I am still confused with front foot back foot loading . i am sure many people will benefit from it. Thanks.
I struggle with pronating on my serve, but I think that this could help me a lot! Thanks!
Thanks for watching
Any videos you would like to see from us in the near future?
All the best
Simon
OMG this is exactly what I need right now!Thank you so much ❤ Greetings from 🇩🇪
Thank you so much for watching.
Is there anything you'd like to see us cover in the near future?
All the best
Simon
This is excellence. I already knew about this, but it's always needed to be remembered.
I always think you should be professional commentators as well, today no one cares about explaining anything related to techniques nor tactics during the maches (because they don't know shit about it, mostly). Luckily, in ESPN (Latin América) we have an ex player commentating who cares about these things sometimes (something is better than nothing, I guess).
Every time I hear an US or Europe broadcast it bothers me a lot how many times they just state the obvious. It's vital to teach watching the masters.
Thanks for the support mate.
We would be open to that, anyone at ESPN around?
Good discussion on pronation.
Thanks for watching.
Are there any videos you'd like to see from us in the near future?
Simon
Thank you very much Simon!
Thank you for watching
Are there any lessons you would like to see in the near future?
All the best
Simon
Great explanation. Thank you
I really did to really learn this proper serve
great explanation and would like to see video of all four serves demonstrating the pronation
Thanks for watching.
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Simon
Great video Simon, thank you!
Thanks for watching Hans
Any lessons you would like to see from us in 2020?
All the best
Simon
U R the bloody Best Simon ! Like no other
And you are number one Sebashtian!
Thanks for the support my man, I truly appreciate it.
All the best
Simon
Thanks for this video. Particularly, the timing of pronation and contact for flat, kick and slice.
Thanks for watching
Any lessons you'd like to see from us in 2020?
All the best
Simon
Thanks for the lesson!
Could you make a video about Kyrgios’s quick serve motion where he hits the ball when it stops for a moment at the peak of the toss? Also the pros and cons compared to the normal motion where we we hit the ball when it’s dropping?
Thanks for watching.
I've made an analysis video on Nick's serve, you can watch it here - ruclips.net/video/jwT5n9E6qjQ/видео.html
All the best
Simon
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Oh thanks I didn't know! So is there a reason why we don't see that many players with that serve motion on the tour?
I think it's down to the players being taught a different motion by their coaches
Great explanation😮
Many thanks 🙏
Also could you make vids on different stance for different shots?
Pls get this comment to 100 likes
If your comment gets 100 likes, I'll do it!
Nice Job, many thanks.
Excellent kick serve insights, kudos! :-)
Glad you liked it!
Are there any lessons you would like to see in the near future?
All the best
Simon
Good explanation
Thanks for watching 🙏
Are there any lessons you would like to see in 2023?
Great video sir. This looks painful to do. It seems to me that putting that much torque on the elbow would lead to some serious injuries if you're not accustom to it. I think it would be prudent to break myself into this technique slowly so my body can build some strength before blasting serves with gusto. Thanks for the video, i learned a lot.
@ C P - You're spot on when it comes to starting this motion slowly and really letting your body get the feel for it before you add any power.
Thank you Simon. I want to ask more like how do you change the grip quickly for forehand and backhand during the game, and more over for the the slice ?
Always the best! Nothing else
Many thanks 🙏
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial a couple of weeks ago, I joined a tennis stage with a new coach. He complimented me for the technique asking me who my trainer is. Surprised by the answer 😀TTT
Great video. Thanks
Thanks for watching,
Are there any videos you'd like to see from us in the near future?
Simon
Very helpful
Great explanation
Many thanks for the support
A year later and I still think so lol, didn't realize I had already seen this video
Thank you for uploading.
My pleasure 🙏
I wonder why some guys put thumps down in this crystal clear explanation from the coach I can’t figure it out ! can you coach?
Haters are gonna hate my friend.
The main thing is - do the people who want to actually improve, learn from us?
Hopefully the answer is yes
Probably rogue coaches who see others as a threat.
Simon, Fantastic video! I’m curious about when the supination occurs. Do you begin to supinate at the top of the swing, when you begin the racket drop! Thanks!
It typically starts as you leave the trophy pose phase, but some players start the supination of the forearm prior to that position, so when they reach the power position they’re already supinating
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Thanks!
Thank you ... Great !!
Thank you for watching Peter
Are there any lessons you would like to see in the near future?
All the best
Simon
Hi Simon, what's the point of the full pronation? doesn't simple pronation give you the same power or does the full pronation give you the extra pop?
I really struggle with the full pronation, it doesn't feel natural to me, more like I'm forcing it... Any ideas?
Hi Christopher
Full pronation does two major things:
1. It allows you to accelerate fully during the contact zone in the most natural way, without stressing your wrist/elbow
2. It allows you to finish the serve with a relaxed and fluid motion, again not stressing the arm in an unnecessary way.
If you only pronate up to the point of contact, you will then finish with the wrist most likely flexing and this can lead to injuries if done at high speeds on a consistent basis.
It takes time to master pronation on the serve. I suggest using progressive drills that will help you get the correct mechanics and build up the speed slowly.
Serving from the service box is a great way to start, place your racket on edge (supination) and work solely on pronating the arm to make contact.
Speed isn't important when you are getting the feel.
Once you start feeling that motion you can progress further in the court and increase the swing length.
All the best
Simon
Can I ask a question ? I did not find a answer till now!Why , the tennis players , make bounce the ball before serve ?
Mainly for focus and routine. The player is bouncing the ball but thinking about where they will hit the serve, their first shot, breathing etc
Top Tennis Training - Pro Tennis Lessons - Thank you for answering, and for your time. I really appreciate your work and I find it like call it : “ top tennis “ .! Very good job. Really helps me . About the answer, I will never thought ... Is strange. Couches teach players to do this? I mean every single player that I see , do this “ routine “. ( Maybe Nadal , it was like me! -didn’t know it for a while). Best regards!
Good... thanks
Thank you for watching
Are there any lessons you would like to see in the near future?
All the best
Simon
Hy badminton is same pronate. For smash?
Really good explanation about pronation but the body bending and ball heigh relation is not explained
The body bending as in shoulder over shoulder? It definitely impacts pronation, but plenty of players use shoulder over shoulder but don’t pronate properly. So it’s not the pre determining factor
thank you so much man!
Thank you for watching 👍
Are there any lessons you would like to see in the near future?
All the best
Simon
Can you please send your own serve full video. Flat serve
Here you go - ruclips.net/video/aFwFklEQrf0/видео.html
How do you pro nation on the slice serve?
Check out this lesson - ruclips.net/video/TzUvhOBrdnM/видео.html
my arm does the pronation but it doesn't turn to right, it just stays in the neutral position. Is that ok?
Ideally it would pronate fully. That will allow you to hit kick serves properly
Ok so I've been playing tennis for some time and my brother is getting into it now so I've been helping him learn how to play, would it be more beneficial for me to try and get him serving properly from the start of with just a basic slap serve like was shown at the start of the video? The reason I ask is because I can serve properly but for years as a kid before I started lessons etc I had already taught myself how to serve but then I had so many bad habits it was very hard when I did start playing at a club and getting lessons, he's not interested in lessons or joining my club yet as he thinks he needs to get better before he can join 🤷
I would get him doing a basic beginner style serve for now, let him have success with it, getting it in is the main thing. If he feels that success, he may end up going for lessons and working on a proper motion but the drive has to come from him. Get it in, he’ll feel good and be more motivated to play more.
All the best
Simon
Well explained (though you should dedicate a few seconds to demonstrating the continental grip)
Thanks for watching Dan.
Any videos you'd like to see from us in the near future?
Simon
Super video. Congrats.
Thank you so much for watching.
Is there anything you'd like to see us cover in the near future?
All the best
Simon
The problem with me and many low intermediate is that, even with a continental grip, there is a tendency to open the racquet face too early and miss the supranation part. Any tips would be appreciated.
If you're using a true continental grip, it's very hard to open the racket face.
Make sure you're using the real continental grip and not switching grips during the motion.
Also, use progressions, that will help your body feel the motion.
Thanks for watching.
Are there any videos you'd like to see from us in the near future?
Simon
Pronation is also used for slice serve
Yes
coach did you mentioned that full pronation should not be manufactured? you only need to pronate up to contact
Well, I don’t agree with that. Many WTA players pronate into contact and stop, limiting their range of motion and ability to accelerate the racket properly through the strike zone.
Full pronation occurs after contact, resulting in the racket face turning towards the right side of the court
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial so like an American football throw you would allow the hands to follow through pronate for max spin?
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial how many inches of acceleration is through and before contact? same as forehand?
Hi Simon,
I am not pronating fully. I am only pronating halfway (neutral position). Full pronating should be natural right? Do you know why I’m not pronating all the way naturally? I am able to pronate enough to hit the ball but not afterwards.
Check out our newest video, 3 serve drills
Top Tennis Training - Pro Tennis Lessons yeah I actually realized that I was pronating fully. I just sometimes wasn’t hitting the ball in the right spot. Just need to make my toss more consistent. I did watch you latest vid. Keep it up! I want to see another match with you and Yoan!
Hi administrator, kindly give me name of the racquet you used in this video. I love an full white racquet 😊
Hi Hai
The all white racket is a prototype.
All the best
Simon
Hello, i use a continental grip on serve however i notice myself pronating my wrist prior to the trophy position. Whenever i try to wait to last minute to pronate i tend to miscue, so essentially, i start continental but as i release the toss ive already twisted my wrist left so when i reach contact point im flat, does this make sense?
Yes you need to work on keeping the string bed pointing down or towards you on the takeback for that you need to have your wrist relaxed throughout that phase. All the best, Alex
I know I'm late to the party, but does pronating add or reduce (or neither) shoulder strain?
I ask because I'm trying to get back into the game after at least a decade off (old, out of shape guy here at almost 43), and I'm having major shoulder pain when attempting to serve, along with major consistency issues. I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong, whether I'm pronating correctly/enough (among other things), and in turn, whether or not my shoulder should feel like it wants to jump out of the socket during a serve when pronating correctly.
Thank you in advance for any responses!
Using full pronation will take a load off the shoulder
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Okay, that sounds much better. I'll try to make sure I'm concentrating on getting that forearm around, as well as work on other form-based issues. Cheers!
What’s your opinion on low ball tosses if your tall. Aka Nick Kyrigos?
I love it, try to use it myself.
Covered in this lesson - ruclips.net/video/sDtANEwOazA/видео.html
Wow this actually works. My tennis elbow disappeared.
my backhand sucks what should I do?
why pronation is usefull? sorry but I dont understand english.
and it needs for slice, kick or flat serve?
Pronation allows you to speed up the racket during the contact zone without stressing your wrist/elbow/shoulder and allows for a full range of motion through the throwing action. Pros pronate on all serves
Top Tennis Training - Pro Tennis Lessons very nice! Thanks a lot!!!
Would you recomend going 100% on your first serve, or may be a littlebit less since it may enter in more frequently, and its not that risky as to hace to second serve more?
I suggest going full out on your serve when it's working, if you are having a good serving day, go for it.
When it's not working, lower the speed and increase the spin rate, even on the first serve. Aim for bigger targets and build up some consistency, often when my students do this (and myself) the timing of the motion returns and you can start going for more.
Consistency is key, every day is different and you need to find a solid base on any given day.
All the best
Simon
Can one get pain In forearm / tennis elbow if there is no pronation ?
Absolutely.
If you flex the wrist after contact (snap the wrist) it can lead to many injuries.
Thanks for watching.
Please don't forget to subscribe to the channel and turn on the notification bell so you get our newest videos as soon as we release them.
All the best
Simon
Do we need to pronate for any kind of service
Ideally yes
Thanks
Thx for information dude
Thanks for watching.
Are there any videos you'd like to see from us in the near future?
Simon
Superb as ever mate. Thanks man. Where are you based, by the way?
Thanks for the support mate
Any other topics you'd like to see us cover in the near future?
We're based in London, UK
All the best
Simon
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial 😀👍
Hey Simon, was looking for a re-cap on serve pronation and re-watched this video. Oldie but a goodie! Technical strings question: do you think strings (& tension) make a big difference on serve pronation power? I mean, if I have Alu Power strings at 60 in one racquet & Wilson Multifilament at 50 another same racquet, do you think there would be much difference with the speed of the actual serve? Thanks
The tension/string elasticity will definitely impact the speed to some degree but normally it would be minimal. A few MPH in each direction.
The real difference in power will come from your technique and RHS.
All the best
Simon
What is the best way to get a racket drop?
Hi Robert
The best way to improve your racket drop is to increase your range of motion in the shoulder joint.
It's also a great idea to work on your serve from that racket drop to help your body feel what you want to happen.
All the best
Simon
Is pronation just passively happening because of the motion of other parts of the body, or do we force it by arm muscles? ... I bet the answer is the former. And in order to produce speed and power, it has to be.
How much of the details of the motion of your body, arm, and racket, including pronation, are you consciously aware, when you're doing a serve? For example, the racket face, the elbow position, the trajectory of the racket head at every stage of serve. We can check these from super slow motion, but how much of those details are you actually aware during a serve? ... I bet most of your attention is towards the ball and you don't really have time to worry about this many things. So pretty much everything is half auto-pilot after a lot of practices.
Pronation is happening because of good throwing mechanics and using the correct grip, as I demonstrate in this video. At first, when someone is learning pronation, you might have to isolate the motion and "force" it to begin with. When I say force it, I mean you are very much aware of the motion happening and you consciously use the muscles of the arm to use full pronation.
After you master that motion, you won't have to think about it.
It will already be a habit.
Everything comes down to training in a smart way, using steps to master each element of the serve.
Something our serve revolution course is built on.
Thanks for watching.
Please don't forget to subscribe to the channel and turn on the notification bell so you get our newest videos as soon as we release them.
All the best
Simon
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Thanks for the great answer. Many videos show about details of motion, but strangely I haven't come across one clearly talking about the difference between the "forced" learning phase and automated phase after learning. Maybe, you take this for granted as a coach, but it's good to hear the confirmation!
Prior to starting tennis, I had read the book "Inner game of tennis" by Timothy Gallway (I bet you've heard of it) and it improved my musical instrument performance. Strictly following the concept of "Inner Game", just using focus and concentration should be enough for your body to instinctively find the right way. But I was overwhelmed by the difficulty of serve (perhaps, it worked for my forehand stroke though), and thought there was no way I could "instinctively" reinvent modern tennis serve.
So I started consciously forcing pronation with video recording. After a few months, it seems my arm has learned what pronation is like. But the whole motion of serve is still far from fluidness (so it's slow and week), and now I need to "forget" details to make it automatic. And at this stage, the "Inner Game" concept appears to be helpful just as it did for my music playing...
I read the inner game and to be honest I found it didn't work for me at all.
Letting go and allowing the body to "feel" works if you know what you're looking for.
I read it as a junior and again later when I started coaching and in both cases, I felt I got nothing from the book. I've read a few tennis books that have really helped me, one was focused on breathing and tracking the ball.
That's the best tennis book I've ever read, it helped me instantly.
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Wow, thank you for the reply! It's a very strong NO, but you tried it twice, so fair enough. The author wrote the "inner game" series for golf, ski and musical instruments, so I thought I can't ignore it. But nobody seems to talk about it on RUclips. BTW, is that book worked for you a secret?????? I'm really curious....
#EXCELLENT SUPINATION Neutral PRONATION EXPLANATION & Demonstration!
THANK YOU !!!
🙏🙏🙏🎾🎾🎾💯💯💯
Excelent
Thanks for watching.
Are there any videos you'd like to see from us in the near future?
Simon
How can i pronate in a second serve?
Here is a video on the kick serve (2nd serve)
ruclips.net/video/yjpi0cMrkyw/видео.html
More easily said than done.
Like with anything, it takes focused practice to master.
Thanks for watching.
All the best
Simon
I know this is out of the topic but in my forehand backswing, I take the recquet to high which leads to late contact and when I try to take a short backswing, it automatically changes again while playing matches. What would recommend?
That's very normal, when we play matches we play on auto-pilot.
You need to do enough repetitions of your new swing until that becomes the habit.
Most studies say that it takes between 2,500-5,000 reps of the new swing until it can become a habit.
All the best
Simon
Thank you sooo much and keep up the quality vids
Just started playing tennis and this does not feel natural. I have to work on this and build muscle memory.
Thank you for watching.
It does take time and practice to get this motion mastered, but it's worth it!
Are there any lesson you would like to see in the near future?
All the best
Simon
I fully understand the concepts of pronation, but whenever I try it on the court I fail miserably..I just cant seem to do it right ☹☹
It takes time and doing the right sort of drills.
I suggest using progressive drills that will help you get the correct mechanics and build up the speed slowly.
Serving from the service box is a great way to start, place your racket on edge (supination) and work solely on pronating the arm to make contact.
Speed isn't important when you are getting the feel.
Once you start feeling that motion you can progress further in the court and increase the swing length.
Let me know how that goes,
All the best
Simon
Thanks a lot for the useful tips Simon!👍
Hope I finally get it right 😀
Take your time and progress at your own pace, don't rush it trying to go for power.
Good luck and all the best
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Yup, Il do it slowly until I get that muscle memory 😀
I was doing the pronation wrong way and I have sick arm now
That's no good, rest up well
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial okay thanks but I play tennis everyday and I haven't got time for taking a rest
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficialhi you didn’t mention the important key which is the role of non-hitting arm. Withou aware of it. The pronation will never happen naturally
@@taivan3697 If you want to mention the role of the non-hitting arm pulling down and away from the ball, then you'd also have to include the shoulder over shoulder motion, the leg drive which initiates the entire kinetic chain, the uncoiling of the upper body etc, it becomes a different lesson
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial thanks so much bro. I mean that tucking non-hitting arm shall help pronation. If not, you will overrotate and then push the ball
the real extra "pop" happens when FULL pronation is completed at contact, creates racket head speed
Thanks for watching Michael.
Any videos you'd like to see from us in the near future?
Simon
Whenever I pronate the ball goes into the right of the net
It takes time to master pronation on the serve. I suggest using progressive drills that will help you get the correct mechanics and build up the speed slowly.
Serving from the service box is a great way to start, place your racket on edge (supination) and work solely on pronating the arm to make contact.
Speed isn't important when you are getting the feel.
Once you start feeling that motion you can progress further in the court and increase the swing length.
Let me know how that goes,
All the best
Simon
That’s probably because you suck
excellent example! me: 0.25-0.38 (repeat) ...
🤣
Ohh you're good ...as De Niro says to his shrink
2:00
A lot of talking. Show drills, exercises and common problems.😊
Shoe drill? Porblems?
Learn how to type firstly, then ask for a refund if you’re not satisfied.
Oh wait….
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Agreed. My English could be better. Refund? Joke being it's free content and I shouldn't comment they way I have? Or is your meaning I have to pay to get a video with the content I suggested?
You’re complaining about me explaining the motion in detail (which many people wanted and loved btw) on a lesson that is free. There are plenty of other videos on the channel showing drills and exercises for the serve. You can watch them, for free and learn. You’re welcome
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Sorry mate. Wasn't meant to be a complaint. Apologizes. Your videos are awesome. Not trying to diminish.
🙏
Great videos Thomas. Question for you: My son hard time "hitting on Edge" with his serve (he ALWAYS "waiters trays" it). I'm thinking about switching his grip to a more OPEN grip as it forces an "on edge" motion at the peak....I know the CONTINENTAL grip is the golden rule...so do you think this is a good idea?
Thomas?
Not sure who that is 🤣
Changing the grip towards a more eastern forehand grip would make things worse. It’s better to keep the continental and work on keeping the racket on edge for longer in the trophy position. For any of my students who has had that issue, I always go back to trophy position work and don’t progress beyond mastering the correct throwing mechanics before we move on to a full serve. You have to be able to walk before you can run.
Good luck with the improvements,
All the best
Simon
Great video-thanks
Many thanks 🙏