Not really. Ask any old lifelong bicyclist. They'll explain it all quit well! Perhaps one who remembers their Mamma sewing a leather butt pad on the outside of one's britches, for riding their baby Bianchi in the Dolomites :-) Can you guess...why? Road bicycling & human anatomy have been around a looong-time. YT just saves one the trouble of really mingling with bikers who know. Pity. Heyyy... there are also dozen good books on the subject at, you may vaguely remember ...Libraries. Sempre avanti. Listen to your body!
Great advice. 40mm of spacers for me and an 80mm stem. I'm nearly 50 and this keeps me happy! You can still get into a tuck in the drops by simply bending your elbows. The pros have access to all kinds of physiotherapy and massages. I've got my sofa.
The great thing about James is that he doesn't just get you into a better fit, but he makes you feel better about yourself. I've never been so proud to be over 40, sat at a desk all day, and carrying a few extra k. It's great that he addresses each rider right where he or she is.
That's really insightful. One day I was talking with a mate who's lookin for a roadbike for his girlfriend - they were checking out the new emonda and what he said was "The bike is perfect for her, we only had to put the saddle all the way forward and point the stem up for it to fit. It's great!" - well, that's as far from being great as imaginable. Customers, but often also sellers, have no grasp of the fitting concept and the fact that bike can be not only wrong size for a rider but wrong geometry in the first place.
I spent most of my bicycle industry career (20 years) designing and developing bikes, then changing them for the "pro" sellable/marketable fit, all because the sales team says "we can't sell a non-race oriented bike. I just wish that James's message could get through to more riders/consumers, and have them experience a good fit and realize they have a better chance of riding fast and comfortably if they don't have a Chris Froome fit
Good one - lots of sound advice there. A lot really does depend on physiology. Over 50 now and still have the stem slammed. I was lucky enough to get a custom frame and fit from a legendary Italian builder. He told me I had remarkable flexibility for my age but told me to lose 10kg to get the best from the bike. Ouch! I did and he was, of course, correct.
Excellent video. James makes the point and uses the analogy I always do regarding Formula 1 cars and racing bicycles. Cyclists are always being sold an F1 car when they would do best with family sedan or maybe an affordable sporty coupe. Keep talking sense, James. This one's a gem. Thanks Francis.
I've been reluctant to visit another bike fitter on the grounds I will be treated as an unfit cyclist and get a second rate service. Listening to James gives me confidence he will not address my issues but get me into the best position to suit my abilities. Thank you for producing this video Francis Cade.
I dont understand whether you're saying this video makes you want to see second fitter or not. But if you're even considering going to a different fitter, you probably should.
@@koooolk. To find someone like James would be perfect. I went to a fitter who was "Retul certified" and all he did was go off charts to set me up. My fitness and flexibility is probably less than average and that wasn't taken into account. After he took my money he said I probably should have a shorter stem and a different saddle which he had nothing in stock. After James videos I know better but live in a different country. I
@@richardharker2775 There are plenty of good fitters around the place (Provided there are bike shops of course). I'd recommend visiting a bike shop/fit studio and trying to talk to them about what your looking for before scheduling. This will help you get a feeling for what type of person/advice you're dealing with and maybe they can steer you in the direction of a person who can help you best. I would def recommend letting whichever fitter you visit next know about your issues. Dont just take whatever they say at face value, let them know how your body is feeling and ask to clarify if you have question about certain decisions.
Tip: If you wan't to "slam that stem" buy a gravel bike. The stack on a gravel bike is generally higher because the fork is taller to accomodate larger tires. You will look pro without sacrificing comfort! *True but not a real tip.
James is spot on as usual, with his comment about the endurance bike. My Trek Domane is slammed and I ride on the drops all day on that. PS I' 56 and sit at a desk all day but I'm also skinny and flexible 👍😁
I’m enjoying this channel. I just had a bike fit last week, and my fitter agrees with everything on here. The first thing he told me was that I’d definitely got the right sized frame. Phew! That’s interesting because a lot of people think that it’s too small for me, but he reckons it’s the right size for my torso length. My torso is not particularly long, my legs are longish, and my arms are very long with big hands. He moved my saddle forward 20mm, because my weight was too far back. He then put me on a stem 25mm longer, and a bit lower. He made a number of minor adjustments to the angle of the saddle, bars and shifters. He even noticed that my shifters had been “wound in” slightly as if for someone with shorter fingers. So I ended up with a bike that looks a bit pro, even though I am pretty average. He predicts better breathing and more power, as well as better cornering with my centre of gravity further forward. So far it feels great!
Smashing video gents. Really good advice. Most of my fellow, reasonably experienced MAMIL's (and the ladies) are quite comfortable with the fact that very few of us are going to win a Grade A crit (or a D Grade crit for that matter), much less a Grand Tour.... As such, we are happy enough to buy the endurance bikes (Giant Defy Advanced in my case), and get a bike fit that is focused on comfort, not speed. Indeed, my understanding is that endurance bikes are the biggest sellers of most manufacturers line-ups. Which is nice to know that manufacturers are thinking about us non pro types. This is very important to point out to the newbies coming into the sport. With regards "Pro" setup, I think I may have made the point on this channel, and certainly on other channels, that I care about what pro's ride about as much as I care what computers other people use, it has absolutely no impact at all on my thinking.
2 years ago i did a great bike fit- i could ride this position for 6 hours with single coffee break and nothing did hurt. My bar is little higher than i expected and position is little shorter, but is feels great. This summer i tried much more agressive position with same reach, but lowered bar for about 3cm. It ended up with neck pain, shoulder pain, bottom pain, knee pain, etc. But it was way faster on the road, so slamming your stem makes sence if you can sustain that position. As for me, well, i can't and i switched back to same fitted position. All pain is gone. Don't slam your stem if it doesn't feel comfortable.
James is the Dr. Gregory House of bike fits. Last week, I almost spent £150 on a short nose saddle when you guys saved me from the temptation of trying to make a shortcut to a good bike position. Unfortunately, I live in Sweden and can not book a bike fit with you. Keep up the good work and let me know if you are in Stockholm and need anything.
My bike came with a 130mm stem and 46cm handlebar with an unnecessary long reach, resulting in shoulder and back pain. Now I've got a 100mm stem and 42cm handlebar with shorter reach and the pain is gone. Cheers guys!
i rode around seattle for a decade before i upgraded to a long low stem this was about the time greg lemond was extolling his seat up and back i tried that too, and improved my spin under intense effort felt easier to stretch on the bike between maximum efforts too pro position has all the benefits when working to your limits on the bike make changes gradually, and stretch until you start yawning
“Book a fit with James” Can I just come work for him instead, I’m completely disenfranchised with working for the largest UK retailer for bikes after 8 years and other items and his philosophy of fit first buy later has completely changed my approach with customers I deal with finding their right bike. Coming on too strong? 🤔😂😬 Again another awesome video highlighting this issue! 🙏🏾👌🏾
After many Bikefit Tuesdays (not necessarily on Tuesday) and sound advice I went from a race inspired Cannondale Evo to Cervelo C3 and I'll never look back. But I easily could, as I'm always pain free and comfy. (Slim/athletic recreatonal rider here)
In it for fun and adventure. Thanks, James and Cade. We tolerate bad roads, bad drivers, bad pedestrians, it's stupid to add a bad bike position to those challenges just to look pro. Question: About the 40 yr old dude who sits behind a desk most week. Wouldn't he be better served by 30mm+ tyres than anything below that to avoid medical complications - joint pain, undercarriage, arm pain etc? I've switched to 36mm wheels (contact patch of 1.8mm at 60PSI). I've seen no reduction in my average speed. Instead, I've found that I can sit on the saddle for longer without discomfort, get less tired from road chatter, and thus have more energy to focus on having a great ride. I'd love your opinion on this, maybe on a bike fit Tuesdays video.
These bike fit videos are always worth a watch. They have had me rethinking my own position as I get older and wider. Just saw that James did a fit for Tao. Any chance of a video where James talks of what pro fitting entails?
I was riding old bikes that have classic geometry with long top tube and short head tube for 6 years... like my 20 year old Stevens R.P.R. 3 or Trek 5500 OCLV 120 and it's insane how different the fit is to a modern bike... I bought a 2021 Trek Domane AL Disc, slammed it and put a negative 17degree 105 mm stem on it, because it feels so strange to me to have the handlebars so far up. But it also handles significant better with this setup, as compensation I use a 40 cm Specialized short reach bar. Even though 7,5 cm saddle to bar drop is very sporty for an office worker like me, this is the only way I really enjoy riding it, otherwise I ride in the drops the whole time.
I just bought a used bike and it's got like 120mm Zipp stem on it. I need to take it in for a fit and get the reach adjusted. I'm more than "a few extra pounds", and the position gives me a little back pain after about 30 miles.
yes my race bike (that various reasons i havent race last 4yrs) has 25mm under the stem and it is a touch long. however next size up is scary large and another cm out in frame reach (TCR). Prolly shouldve bought the defy. Lessons learned. my hard to lose gut, my age, and lack of outright flexibility sure screams 'not race bike'. strangely enough getting back to ride post-illness and injury (and 2 home moves eh francis!) right now as my body remembers how to ride and the wattage sucks, it is more comfortable to ride in the drops then long periods on the hoods. Time for a TT bike then ha. Perhaps a vakay in the UK would see me down to his shop for some fit work (and a newer pr of wide Lakes - tasty). -U10
As a side note - interesting that James called it 'core strength' (as opposed to core stability). I believe James did once refer to it as core stability which is not the same as core strength. Most notably core stability (or at least in how I teach and train my clients) relies on suitable flexibility in order to maintain stability of the pelvis, spine and shoulder girdle. As lack of flexibility creates either imbalance (mechanically and skeletally) or immobility which can masquerade as stability. Core strength doesn't technically rely on flexibility unless you consider the law of reciprocal inhibition which would suggest you inhibit activation of opposing muscles neurologically. That could alter core strength depending on what is tight. I've probably bored everyone into a coma by now...maybe I'll just go get on the turbo and switch netflix on instead lol
Great video as always old boy, one thing I can’t quite seem to get my head around is why measure the reach from the “nose of the saddle” to the hoods as you don’t sit on that bit of the saddle and in many cases now they’ve chopped the 👃 off, therefore this measurement will keep changing for every saddle not the rider ??? Am I being stupid ????
I really liked my old Avanti Carbonio. Super short head tube, slammed 105mm stem, 38cm bars. Shame it was old and a 48cm frame that I quickly grew out of.
So right ! I see guys every day on your 'Specialized' whatever bikes with Shimano Dura Ace, and I'm like 'you spent too much money'. I ride a Merida Scultura 5000 with Shimano Ultegra. I love riding.
Everyone is different. At 73, I’ve enjoyed decades of cycling. Maybe that’s why I can and still can do enjoy a more aero position, even though I haven’t been in an “official” race since my 20s.
On the reach and how to adjust it topic, I now have a 65mm reach handlebar on an indoor bike thus needing to increase stem by a margin. Actually, long reach handlebars seem to me a waste of resources given that eats up on the stem thus reducing bike handling stability. I'm all for long stem, short handlebar reach.
Sometimes you can't get away from slamming (or getting close to it) a stem especially with carbon forks where the steerer tube can't physically cope with spacers. I agree with the reach comments I mistakenly thought that anatomic bars were better but the one I had increased the reach substantially to the point where it was incredibly uncomfortable to ride.
@@louKushh You are required to use an insert to prevent the steerer tube from buckling but manufacturers still specify a maximum stack height which often only allows for a maximum of 10-20 mm of extra height depending on the height of the stem on the steerer.
Do love James and your videos with him have definitely informed how i look at and experiment with my position but........spacers seem really, really convenient! .....at least for those who have yet to follow the fit first buy later mantra, ahem....
It's a shame that the new Emonda is only available in H1.5 . Much too long and low for me now. I'd consider the Domane instead, but crikey it seems quite heavy compared to other endurance machines, and expensive too.
As someone with extremely weird body measurements it can be really hard to get a bike that fits well 166cm tall, 81cm leg length and 175cm arm span means I need a longer top tube to get 100mm more reach than most. Have a 54 with saddle slammed back and 120mm stem and still need more reach.
The core message I can agree upon, but let's not forget that you can train flexibility and thus go lower on the bike if you really want to. But like power output, how quickly you will get those gains has a genetic component to it.
James Thomas is a bastion of knowledge. I wish I had found out about him before I bought a super duper bike that I don’t have the skills to ride 😩 I think a bike fit is due!
comfort = not feeling the wind breaking you imo. with that beeing said, my hands would always hurt. switched to TT-setup and now I am comfortable as hell in the aerobars
I am 53 been riding and racing 40 years I am only comfortable long and low I still ride 500hrs a year and weight 67kg I have rode bikes with a higher stack and less saddle to bar drop I ride with around 100mm with around half of that I was in aching after 2hrs but like he says everyone is different but what I can say is I descend much quicker with that extra weight over the front end👌
I'm a regualar rider that is running a "pro setup", I'm having no issues with it, fits like a glove. This video is more for the new / not so serious cyclist. I can do 300w for an hour in the drop position without a problem, I do train 3-4 times a week and try to be consistent in my training and I am used to this type of position.
I listen to James and I'm reminded of a tennis clinic I took years ago. We were going over serves and the instructor said to a student. "I see you jump off the ground when you serve like [Boris] Becker (then No 1 in the world). Here is why you shouldn't do that You're no Becker." Same advice applies here.
A question I would have is about fit for types of rides. There's a big difference between what is a comfortable position to hold for a nice ride out - perhaps on a club run or a training ride - when you are out for about three or four hours, and the position you feel comfortable with on a multi day bikepacking tour. Should you have a different set up for the different ride type (the saddle hieght and position is probably going to be the same so this is just the reach and 'cockpit" set up)?
@@Cade_Media I found myself barely touching the bars after a couple of days bikepacking - my fingers extended and touching the tops rather than wrapping round the bars. I realized my comfy position for very long periods would therefore have a much shorter reach than I otherwise find fine...
It's interesting, when I built my custom frame, the frame builder guiding me was more interested in what type of riding it would be used for rather than what position l was capable of riding in.
@@Cade_Media only what I brought with me from my own workings out, plus the bike it was 'replacing' (Trek Emonda SL5) - to be fair, he was bang-on with what I ended up with. Rode it today, and it's brilliant - I can ride it all day, no worries, and that includes setting the pace for my turn at the front! :) (It's a fillet brazed Road bike in Reynolds 653, made at Dave Yates' workshop)
I think the manufacturers are missing out. Most people want a light, stiff, sexy bike but need more relaxed geometry. We don’t want to ride an ugly city bike to the pub. That is why I bought a F12 Dogma. In 62cm it has 650mm stack and a 250mm head tube. I can have a nice looking bike with a tall front end so my back survives.
i thought the pros had to have long stems because to get the drop they need they had to size down and consequently got a frame with a shorter reach than they needed. one fit issue with still riding the bike i got in my early 40s but now being in my mid 50s is i do regret cutting the steerer with no spacers. i am ok for now but in a year or two i know i will have to flip the stem (and a slammed but positive stem is criminally ugly). A one spacer chimney at 44 looks better than a positive stem at 56.
With the money I’ve spent on fittings, changing components etc...I should have just bought a bespoke frame. I really think it would have saved money in the long run
Is it OK to keep your reach the way you like it, but moving more to the front - with a longer stem and a saddle more forward? Seems to be a trend. I think I'll quite like it. A longer stem definitely makes the handling feel better.
if you move your saddle forward and put a longer stem on, you're essentially moving yourself forwards on the bike in relation to the BB, which will affect how you pedal
I was always under the impression that pro’s only had long stems and tall seat tubes because they went down a size or two in frame sizes for weight reduction?
Francis - regarding flexibility and becoming a more comprehensive rider, I’d love to see a video that involves cross training and/or some off the bike training & stretches (ways to become more flexible) for example. Just an idea. Keep up the great work. Cheers - Wesley
Am I right in assuming the increase in the use of spacers is also the result of the narrowing of the number of frame sizes? I bought a Dogma K (endurance) and found it much easier to fit with a normal stem rather than a high angle and fewer spacers, which, I may eventually remove if I feel good about it. Brilliant point on weight and core strength.
Need ur help guys. Ive been riding a gravel bike for 5 years (mostly on asphalt). Often do 50km rides, sometimes up to 150km. Now im thinking avout getting my dream bike - a racer Giant TCR Advanced. But videos like these make me doubt if a racer is the right choice. My body is kinda stiff, but not extrem. Im 25. Kinda atheltic. And the purpose would be going fast sometime and coffe ride other times. Kinda scared my back wont like my transition from half comfortable gravel to racer. Thoughts from fellow bikers here in the comments?
Definitely get the road bike. You can set it up with spacers to give a relaxed fit. If it’s pre owned, the previous owned might have already cut the steerer so look out for that. If you ride enough the geometry difference between the bikes won’t matter.
Any particular bike fit reason for tight and sore psoas after rides? During the ride is fine, but clearly some over activation causing soreness afterwards. As always, love the episodes chaps :)
I hope everyone appreciates the info James is sharing... this type of in-depth, comprehensive education usually comes with a fat bill...
Ask GCN, no Sir, Ask James
Not really. Ask any old lifelong bicyclist. They'll explain it all quit well! Perhaps one who remembers their Mamma sewing a leather butt pad on the outside of one's britches, for riding their baby Bianchi in the Dolomites :-) Can you guess...why?
Road bicycling & human anatomy have been around a looong-time. YT just saves one the trouble of really mingling with bikers who know. Pity.
Heyyy... there are also dozen good books on the subject at, you may vaguely remember ...Libraries. Sempre avanti. Listen to your body!
Great advice. 40mm of spacers for me and an 80mm stem. I'm nearly 50 and this keeps me happy! You can still get into a tuck in the drops by simply bending your elbows. The pros have access to all kinds of physiotherapy and massages. I've got my sofa.
You sound like me. An endurance bike, 40 mm stack, 90 mm stem, saddle is about 40 mm higher than the stem. 60 years old.
Do set it up like a pro. Just don’t wonder when your back collapses 🙈
or your hernia prolapses
@@Cade_Media but the bike will look great when you've hobbled away from it 😬
Just because it has a price, doesn’t mean it’s not worth paying
@@alynlambert4855 lol
Or your wrists lose their synapses.
I'm an absolute fan of James. He said the absolute Truth: Listen to your body.
Everything, exept the spacer debate..
what is the spacer debate?
Ummm its Friday lol
@@Cade_Media or even what is "spacer"? Does he mean the stem?
But my body keeps telling me "eat food NOW!" 😥🐷
The great thing about James is that he doesn't just get you into a better fit, but he makes you feel better about yourself. I've never been so proud to be over 40, sat at a desk all day, and carrying a few extra k. It's great that he addresses each rider right where he or she is.
That's really insightful. One day I was talking with a mate who's lookin for a roadbike for his girlfriend - they were checking out the new emonda and what he said was "The bike is perfect for her, we only had to put the saddle all the way forward and point the stem up for it to fit. It's great!" - well, that's as far from being great as imaginable. Customers, but often also sellers, have no grasp of the fitting concept and the fact that bike can be not only wrong size for a rider but wrong geometry in the first place.
I spent most of my bicycle industry career (20 years) designing and developing bikes, then changing them for the "pro" sellable/marketable fit, all because the sales team says "we can't sell a non-race oriented bike. I just wish that James's message could get through to more riders/consumers, and have them experience a good fit and realize they have a better chance of riding fast and comfortably if they don't have a Chris Froome fit
Exactly this!
"Guy in his 40s who sets at a desk and carries a few extra pounds" - That's me!!!!! 😂
Ditto, I got pence in my pockets, pounds in my belly! 🤦♂️🐷
*cough*... Now, there's no need to get personal ;)
You are not alone.
....quite a few extra pounds (a whole wallet full) for some... *cough*
Good one - lots of sound advice there. A lot really does depend on physiology. Over 50 now and still have the stem slammed. I was lucky enough to get a custom frame and fit from a legendary Italian builder. He told me I had remarkable flexibility for my age but told me to lose 10kg to get the best from the bike. Ouch! I did and he was, of course, correct.
Phil - where was your frame from?
Good for you! Losing 10kg is no mean feat. Well done
Another great bike fit vid
James nails it again
I went from a race bike to endurance bike, I can now ride longer and with a faster average speed
Excellent video. James makes the point and uses the analogy I always do regarding Formula 1 cars and racing bicycles. Cyclists are always being sold an F1 car when they would do best with family sedan or maybe an affordable sporty coupe. Keep talking sense, James. This one's a gem. Thanks Francis.
Always loves James’s passion. I always feel like he’s talking (yelling) directly to me!
Love BFT, on a Saturday.
I've been reluctant to visit another bike fitter on the grounds I will be treated as an unfit cyclist and get a second rate service.
Listening to James gives me confidence he will not address my issues but get me into the best position to suit my abilities.
Thank you for producing this video Francis Cade.
I dont understand whether you're saying this video makes you want to see second fitter or not. But if you're even considering going to a different fitter, you probably should.
@@koooolk. To find someone like James would be perfect. I went to a fitter who was "Retul certified" and all he did was go off charts to set me up. My fitness and flexibility is probably less than average and that wasn't taken into account.
After he took my money he said I probably should have a shorter stem and a different saddle which he had nothing in stock.
After James videos I know better but live in a different country.
I
@@richardharker2775 There are plenty of good fitters around the place (Provided there are bike shops of course). I'd recommend visiting a bike shop/fit studio and trying to talk to them about what your looking for before scheduling. This will help you get a feeling for what type of person/advice you're dealing with and maybe they can steer you in the direction of a person who can help you best. I would def recommend letting whichever fitter you visit next know about your issues. Dont just take whatever they say at face value, let them know how your body is feeling and ask to clarify if you have question about certain decisions.
James is the best bicycle fit adviser and Pro in his field ever. Others can only learn from Him !!! GREAT GREAT GREAT !!!
That's more like it bike fit Tuesday on a Friday. I get confused what day it is when you upload them on a Tuesday
James did a bike fitting for me about 3 yrs ago at sigma sports - very knowledgable and entertaining afternoon - worth every penny
James along with another Australian bike fit pro have been very helpful for me in understanding what a good bike fit should feel like.
Tip: If you wan't to "slam that stem" buy a gravel bike. The stack on a gravel bike is generally higher because the fork is taller to accomodate larger tires. You will look pro without sacrificing comfort!
*True but not a real tip.
It is a real tip!
My gravel bike has a negative 17 stem and looks siiiiick
Or buy a "endurance" model and run it without any spacers plus a -17 deg stem ;)
Thank you James for sharing your bike fitting knowledge. And Francis for putting together the video!
Excellent, always enjoy listening to James and his thoughts on all things cycling! Thanks!
I never get tired of James speak his bike fit truth.
I could listen to James talking about just about anything. That he's talking about bikes, well, that's just a huge bonus! Bike-Fit Tuesday forever!
James is spot on as usual, with his comment about the endurance bike. My Trek Domane is slammed and I ride on the drops all day on that. PS I' 56 and sit at a desk all day but I'm also skinny and flexible 👍😁
Show off! 😝
I’m enjoying this channel. I just had a bike fit last week, and my fitter agrees with everything on here. The first thing he told me was that I’d definitely got the right sized frame. Phew!
That’s interesting because a lot of people think that it’s too small for me, but he reckons it’s the right size for my torso length. My torso is not particularly long, my legs are longish, and my arms are very long with big hands.
He moved my saddle forward 20mm, because my weight was too far back. He then put me on a stem 25mm longer, and a bit lower. He made a number of minor adjustments to the angle of the saddle, bars and shifters. He even noticed that my shifters had been “wound in” slightly as if for someone with shorter fingers.
So I ended up with a bike that looks a bit pro, even though I am pretty average.
He predicts better breathing and more power, as well as better cornering with my centre of gravity further forward. So far it feels great!
Smashing video gents. Really good advice.
Most of my fellow, reasonably experienced MAMIL's (and the ladies) are quite comfortable with the fact that very few of us are going to win a Grade A crit (or a D Grade crit for that matter), much less a Grand Tour.... As such, we are happy enough to buy the endurance bikes (Giant Defy Advanced in my case), and get a bike fit that is focused on comfort, not speed. Indeed, my understanding is that endurance bikes are the biggest sellers of most manufacturers line-ups. Which is nice to know that manufacturers are thinking about us non pro types.
This is very important to point out to the newbies coming into the sport.
With regards "Pro" setup, I think I may have made the point on this channel, and certainly on other channels, that I care about what pro's ride about as much as I care what computers other people use, it has absolutely no impact at all on my thinking.
2 years ago i did a great bike fit- i could ride this position for 6 hours with single coffee break and nothing did hurt. My bar is little higher than i expected and position is little shorter, but is feels great.
This summer i tried much more agressive position with same reach, but lowered bar for about 3cm. It ended up with neck pain, shoulder pain, bottom pain, knee pain, etc. But it was way faster on the road, so slamming your stem makes sence if you can sustain that position.
As for me, well, i can't and i switched back to same fitted position. All pain is gone. Don't slam your stem if it doesn't feel comfortable.
James is the Dr. Gregory House of bike fits. Last week, I almost spent £150 on a short nose saddle when you guys saved me from the temptation of trying to make a shortcut to a good bike position. Unfortunately, I live in Sweden and can not book a bike fit with you. Keep up the good work and let me know if you are in Stockholm and need anything.
👊
My bike came with a 130mm stem and 46cm handlebar with an unnecessary long reach, resulting in shoulder and back pain.
Now I've got a 100mm stem and 42cm handlebar with shorter reach and the pain is gone.
Cheers guys!
i rode around seattle for a decade before i upgraded to a long low stem
this was about the time greg lemond was extolling his seat up and back
i tried that too, and improved my spin under intense effort
felt easier to stretch on the bike between maximum efforts too
pro position has all the benefits when working to your limits on the bike
make changes gradually, and stretch until you start yawning
“Book a fit with James”
Can I just come work for him instead, I’m completely disenfranchised with working for the largest UK retailer for bikes after 8 years and other items and his philosophy of fit first buy later has completely changed my approach with customers I deal with finding their right bike.
Coming on too strong? 🤔😂😬
Again another awesome video highlighting this issue! 🙏🏾👌🏾
Absorption of disfunction, good name for a metal band :)
After many Bikefit Tuesdays (not necessarily on Tuesday) and sound advice I went from a race inspired Cannondale Evo to Cervelo C3 and I'll never look back. But I easily could, as I'm always pain free and comfy. (Slim/athletic recreatonal rider here)
In it for fun and adventure.
Thanks, James and Cade. We tolerate bad roads, bad drivers, bad pedestrians, it's stupid to add a bad bike position to those challenges just to look pro.
Question: About the 40 yr old dude who sits behind a desk most week. Wouldn't he be better served by 30mm+ tyres than anything below that to avoid medical complications - joint pain, undercarriage, arm pain etc? I've switched to 36mm wheels (contact patch of 1.8mm at 60PSI). I've seen no reduction in my average speed. Instead, I've found that I can sit on the saddle for longer without discomfort, get less tired from road chatter, and thus have more energy to focus on having a great ride.
I'd love your opinion on this, maybe on a bike fit Tuesdays video.
These bike fit videos are always worth a watch. They have had me rethinking my own position as I get older and wider. Just saw that James did a fit for Tao. Any chance of a video where James talks of what pro fitting entails?
I’m about to fly to England just so this man can tell me why my gooch hurts
He charges extra for that diagnosis I believe
Luke Pearce it’s true I do
Bikefit James hurty gooch gooooch
you gotta get your booty thicker, padded shorts are fine but a thick booty is just much better
There’s pills for that ;)
watched this over breakfast this morning, then spotted you doing laps in the opposite direction at Richmond Park.
I was riding old bikes that have classic geometry with long top tube and short head tube for 6 years... like my 20 year old Stevens R.P.R. 3 or Trek 5500 OCLV 120 and it's insane how different the fit is to a modern bike... I bought a 2021 Trek Domane AL Disc, slammed it and put a negative 17degree 105 mm stem on it, because it feels so strange to me to have the handlebars so far up. But it also handles significant better with this setup, as compensation I use a 40 cm Specialized short reach bar.
Even though 7,5 cm saddle to bar drop is very sporty for an office worker like me, this is the only way I really enjoy riding it, otherwise I ride in the drops the whole time.
I just bought a used bike and it's got like 120mm Zipp stem on it. I need to take it in for a fit and get the reach adjusted. I'm more than "a few extra pounds", and the position gives me a little back pain after about 30 miles.
yes my race bike (that various reasons i havent race last 4yrs) has 25mm under the stem and it is a touch long. however next size up is scary large and another cm out in frame reach (TCR). Prolly shouldve bought the defy. Lessons learned. my hard to lose gut, my age, and lack of outright flexibility sure screams 'not race bike'. strangely enough getting back to ride post-illness and injury (and 2 home moves eh francis!) right now as my body remembers how to ride and the wattage sucks, it is more comfortable to ride in the drops then long periods on the hoods. Time for a TT bike then ha. Perhaps a vakay in the UK would see me down to his shop for some fit work (and a newer pr of wide Lakes - tasty). -U10
HUGE fan of James. :-D All his arguments have been repeated over and over. But i stil watch the videos over and over....
As a side note - interesting that James called it 'core strength' (as opposed to core stability). I believe James did once refer to it as core stability which is not the same as core strength. Most notably core stability (or at least in how I teach and train my clients) relies on suitable flexibility in order to maintain stability of the pelvis, spine and shoulder girdle. As lack of flexibility creates either imbalance (mechanically and skeletally) or immobility which can masquerade as stability. Core strength doesn't technically rely on flexibility unless you consider the law of reciprocal inhibition which would suggest you inhibit activation of opposing muscles neurologically. That could alter core strength depending on what is tight.
I've probably bored everyone into a coma by now...maybe I'll just go get on the turbo and switch netflix on instead lol
Great video as always old boy, one thing I can’t quite seem to get my head around is why measure the reach from the “nose of the saddle” to the hoods as you don’t sit on that bit of the saddle and in many cases now they’ve chopped the 👃 off, therefore this measurement will keep changing for every saddle not the rider ???
Am I being stupid ????
Thanks Francis dan James, this is very important for regular cyclist like me...
I really liked my old Avanti Carbonio. Super short head tube, slammed 105mm stem, 38cm bars. Shame it was old and a 48cm frame that I quickly grew out of.
So right ! I see guys every day on your 'Specialized' whatever bikes with Shimano Dura Ace, and I'm like 'you spent too much money'. I ride a Merida Scultura 5000 with Shimano Ultegra. I love riding.
Love the videos. I’m not a pro. I’m in my fifties and would not be considered svelte by any means. Comfort is what I look for in my gear.
Just like the majority of bike riders!
This was a really nice episode packed with a lot of wisdom and experience.
Love these videos! Have quite an interest in these bike fits chats, and James language is easy to follow and beautifully direct! Chapeau to you both.
Love your BikeFit Tuesdays! I'm learning a lot.
Great info here. Personally, I slammed my stem and sent my saddle to the moon and haven't looked back. Works for me.
same.
I really hope you people are actually able to look ahead and practice road safety (for the sake of others).
Everyone is different. At 73, I’ve enjoyed decades of cycling. Maybe that’s why I can and still can do enjoy a more aero position, even though I haven’t been in an “official” race since my 20s.
James full of knowledge! Wonder if he could explain why i get numb toes and numb bottoms of my feet after riding for a duration of time
I think it might be worth explaining how spacers change bike handling, because I'm struggling to think of how that happens, or what effects occur.
On the reach and how to adjust it topic, I now have a 65mm reach handlebar on an indoor bike thus needing to increase stem by a margin. Actually, long reach handlebars seem to me a waste of resources given that eats up on the stem thus reducing bike handling stability. I'm all for long stem, short handlebar reach.
I love James's delivery. I want to drink beer with him. and love the Mount Francis xx
Sometimes you can't get away from slamming (or getting close to it) a stem especially with carbon forks where the steerer tube can't physically cope with spacers.
I agree with the reach comments I mistakenly thought that anatomic bars were better but the one I had increased the reach substantially to the point where it was incredibly uncomfortable to ride.
shouldn't you use a plug with a carbon steerer? if you clamp below the headset?
@@louKushh You are required to use an insert to prevent the steerer tube from buckling but manufacturers still specify a maximum stack height which often only allows for a maximum of 10-20 mm of extra height depending on the height of the stem on the steerer.
Do love James and your videos with him have definitely informed how i look at and experiment with my position but........spacers seem really, really convenient!
.....at least for those who have yet to follow the fit first buy later mantra, ahem....
Again, very good information. Especially the detail about reach. Thank you for all your invaluable insight on what can be a very bewildering subject.
James isn’t the only one who is way off their ‘racing weight’ 🤔🎥👍
Trek was onto it with the H2 fit on their top end "race" bikes.
Indeed
It's a shame that the new Emonda is only available in H1.5 . Much too long and low for me now. I'd consider the Domane instead, but crikey it seems quite heavy compared to other endurance machines, and expensive too.
cento10NDR!!
Such a shame they did not continue with building H2 geometry bikes.
I love listening to James.
As someone with extremely weird body measurements it can be really hard to get a bike that fits well 166cm tall, 81cm leg length and 175cm arm span means I need a longer top tube to get 100mm more reach than most. Have a 54 with saddle slammed back and 120mm stem and still need more reach.
The core message I can agree upon, but let's not forget that you can train flexibility and thus go lower on the bike if you really want to. But like power output, how quickly you will get those gains has a genetic component to it.
Wow so true. Loved the video, that man knows what he's talking about!
Love those bike fit Tuesdays 🥰 so much info. Loved to have such a great fitter in my hometown
James Thomas is a bastion of knowledge. I wish I had found out about him before I bought a super duper bike that I don’t have the skills to ride 😩 I think a bike fit is due!
comfort = not feeling the wind breaking you imo.
with that beeing said, my hands would always hurt. switched to TT-setup and now I am comfortable as hell in the aerobars
Give me a vanilla coke or beer or not, I'll listen to James through and out!
I am 53 been riding and racing 40 years I am only comfortable long and low I still ride 500hrs a year and weight 67kg I have rode bikes with a higher stack and less saddle to bar drop I ride with around 100mm with around half of that I was in aching after 2hrs but like he says everyone is different but what I can say is I descend much quicker with that extra weight over the front end👌
I'm 6ft 4 and I like my position slammed. Resting on the handlebars is more comfortable than 45 degrees for my back.
If only, I had have watched this 18 months ago, my home loan would look soon much better and my back would feel better too.
I'm a regualar rider that is running a "pro setup", I'm having no issues with it, fits like a glove. This video is more for the new / not so serious cyclist. I can do 300w for an hour in the drop position without a problem, I do train 3-4 times a week and try to be consistent in my training and I am used to this type of position.
The majority of bike riders in the world are not serious cyclists 👊
Brilliant and informative video 👍 love the way James delivers the info
again, I've learned so much from this series. wish James had done my fit!
I listen to James and I'm reminded of a tennis clinic I took years ago. We were going over serves and the instructor said to a student. "I see you jump off the ground when you serve like [Boris] Becker (then No 1 in the world). Here is why you shouldn't do that You're no Becker." Same advice applies here.
A question I would have is about fit for types of rides. There's a big difference between what is a comfortable position to hold for a nice ride out - perhaps on a club run or a training ride - when you are out for about three or four hours, and the position you feel comfortable with on a multi day bikepacking tour. Should you have a different set up for the different ride type (the saddle hieght and position is probably going to be the same so this is just the reach and 'cockpit" set up)?
I definitely run a slightly shorter and higher front end when bikepacking. Depends how aggressive your "regular" position is though of course
@@Cade_Media I found myself barely touching the bars after a couple of days bikepacking - my fingers extended and touching the tops rather than wrapping round the bars. I realized my comfy position for very long periods would therefore have a much shorter reach than I otherwise find fine...
On the next BFT Can you discuss finding the correct Saddle Fore/Aft position?
Yep
Absolutely yes
gosh i cant wait to come get fit by james! i want to get a vamoots road built for ME
Is there a video from James about comprehensive ways to reduce the bike's reach without sacrificing handling?
It's interesting, when I built my custom frame, the frame builder guiding me was more interested in what type of riding it would be used for rather than what position l was capable of riding in.
Did he have any bike fit data to work from?
@@Cade_Media only what I brought with me from my own workings out, plus the bike it was 'replacing' (Trek Emonda SL5) - to be fair, he was bang-on with what I ended up with. Rode it today, and it's brilliant - I can ride it all day, no worries, and that includes setting the pace for my turn at the front! :)
(It's a fillet brazed Road bike in Reynolds 653, made at Dave Yates' workshop)
@@The_BenboBaggins cool!
Don't look at the pro AND don't look at instagram ! Great video again!!
Hahaha yes good point!
I think the manufacturers are missing out. Most people want a light, stiff, sexy bike but need more relaxed geometry. We don’t want to ride an ugly city bike to the pub. That is why I bought a F12 Dogma. In 62cm it has 650mm stack and a 250mm head tube. I can have a nice looking bike with a tall front end so my back survives.
I got frightened thinking weekend is still three days ahead 😃
i thought the pros had to have long stems because to get the drop they need they had to size down and consequently got a frame with a shorter reach than they needed.
one fit issue with still riding the bike i got in my early 40s but now being in my mid 50s is i do regret cutting the steerer with no spacers. i am ok for now but in a year or two i know i will have to flip the stem (and a slammed but positive stem is criminally ugly). A one spacer chimney at 44 looks better than a positive stem at 56.
James the passionate genius.
Nice video. And yes stem length is always important. 😉😆
James is the shit. Period.
With the money I’ve spent on fittings, changing components etc...I should have just bought a bespoke frame. I really think it would have saved money in the long run
Is it OK to keep your reach the way you like it, but moving more to the front - with a longer stem and a saddle more forward? Seems to be a trend.
I think I'll quite like it. A longer stem definitely makes the handling feel better.
if you move your saddle forward and put a longer stem on, you're essentially moving yourself forwards on the bike in relation to the BB, which will affect how you pedal
I was always under the impression that pro’s only had long stems and tall seat tubes because they went down a size or two in frame sizes for weight reduction?
They often choose to downsize their frames in order to achieve a shorter stack
So if you wanna look pro but don't want to kill your back you could run a slammed stem with Hover bars (15-25mm rise)
Look pro go slow top secret hacks
(which will probably make you faster anyway)
Francis - regarding flexibility and becoming a more comprehensive rider, I’d love to see a video that involves cross training and/or some off the bike training & stretches (ways to become more flexible) for example. Just an idea. Keep up the great work. Cheers - Wesley
Brilliant thanks
Will arrange a bike fit next time you are in Australia. 🇦🇺👍🏼
Am I right in assuming the increase in the use of spacers is also the result of the narrowing of the number of frame sizes? I bought a Dogma K (endurance) and found it much easier to fit with a normal stem rather than a high angle and fewer spacers, which, I may eventually remove if I feel good about it. Brilliant point on weight and core strength.
This in itself could save a lot of people a lot of moolah! Great job chaps👌🏻
Love to have a bike fit by James. Put him on a bike and send him my way in NZ!1
Need ur help guys.
Ive been riding a gravel bike for 5 years (mostly on asphalt). Often do 50km rides, sometimes up to 150km. Now im thinking avout getting my dream bike - a racer Giant TCR Advanced. But videos like these make me doubt if a racer is the right choice. My body is kinda stiff, but not extrem. Im 25. Kinda atheltic. And the purpose would be going fast sometime and coffe ride other times. Kinda scared my back wont like my transition from half comfortable gravel to racer. Thoughts from fellow bikers here in the comments?
Definitely get the road bike. You can set it up with spacers to give a relaxed fit. If it’s pre owned, the previous owned might have already cut the steerer so look out for that. If you ride enough the geometry difference between the bikes won’t matter.
👍 James knows his stuff
Any particular bike fit reason for tight and sore psoas after rides? During the ride is fine, but clearly some over activation causing soreness afterwards.
As always, love the episodes chaps :)