Amazing video! I loved your analysis and all your interpretations! And the voice acting was on point. I have a full on crack theory that I've held close to my heart because I believe it's very sweet, that being the idea that there aren't actually 8 slugcats. Gourmie, Survivor, and Monk are their own kitties, but I like to think that the other 5 are the same slugcat reincarnating over and over and finding themselves drawn back to pebbles and moon, due to the lingering affections instilled into a tiny little spearmaster by Suns' care for Pebbles and by Moon's kindness. A compulsion that grew stronger when Pebbles assisted Artificer in the journey, later personified by the hunter, who returned to NSH to be purposed yet again into little Rivulet (because there's no way Riv isn't purposed) before finally culminating in the Saint. The arrant cycle, spinning in on itself forever to ascend all iterations of the iterators
You know what, I love this so much I'm going to pin it. There are dozens and dozens of very insightful comments but this is the first time I've seen this idea and I love it.
Oh!! I have a similar theory! That those slugcats are the same mind being reincarnated over and over again, but their inclination to search for Pebbles and Moon doesn't come from it being instilled in Spearmaster. It started w/ their mission, but that's all it was. Afterwards, though, it was memory. The ancients hated the cycles, because even after death, they'd be reborn into a different body, *but remember their past lives*, hence the urge to end it for good. In the same way, perhaps a slugcat too retains memory, and WE are that memory! We are that slugcat, time through time exploring this world, visiting the iterators, because we already know em Off topic, but it'd be funny if perhaps Rivulet and Saint start with the mark of communication, because after so many returns they just learned to understand them, or perhaps the mark became so integral to their being, that it just stayed through rebirth
@@apotoz Yes! I figured it had to be a given for incarnations to retain memory from their previous lives (some at least) because why else would the ancients want to escape? If it didn't actually affect their individual lives in some way there'd be no point. I love the point you made about the mark of communication especially since Saint doesn't have a mark at all! It really does seem like they just learned the language across their iterations. idk, even if there isn't that much to support the theory and it probably wasn't the intended interpretation either, I always felt like with all the talk of the cycle and reincarnation within the story it was always kinda missing a meaningful demonstration. We never actually see anything get reincarnated! Some say that when you die in the game the next time you respawn is a case of rebirth but that always rubbed me the wrong way since the story explicitly made clear that you don't wake up as the same thing any more. Unless I missed something, of course. Still, I do like one singular stubborn slugcat saves local gods over countless generations more :)
@@ashfall7006 Yeah yeah yeah!! And I heard it once explained that reincarnation does put you in a different body, we just don't see it happen with the player slugcat as a gameplay mechanic! a simplification, to make gameplay more seamless. So it doesn't discredit the theory! Also, I think we kinda see reincarnations? I think when you kill enough creatures, you may advance their lineage, and more difficult variants start appearing, which we could interpret as those ones you killed coming back, plus if you take a vulture's mask, they'll look for you through multiple cycles, even if you kill it, meaning they also come back and vaguely renember you!
The story in this game seems to be based off Buddhism and trying to escape the cycle of reincarnation and the way a Buddha is created is being reincarnated over and over and slowly building karma to eventually escape the cycle. In short I believe your theory is correct as I think the Saint and the Buddha share the same role of helping others escape the cycle.
Something is too funny about the random gods giving their monologues about anger or empathy and whatnot and the scugs are just backflipping and throwing spears into the walls and eating pearls
Kinda cute, ngl. I think that's sort of their point. They're unpretentious animals just enjoying life instead of being tormented by existential terror.
@Ved then why didn't the Saint assend? If all it lived for was ascending others, then why would ascending a giant noodle be bad? It doesn't know what the noodle is. It probably doesn't even know what ascension is. How could a being that pure and stupid not ascend according to the rules layer out so far? The only thing I can think of is that echos are assended. Based on that one echo that has accepted its state and realizing that chasing ascension was stupid anyway. What if ego and individuality is the key? Giving up leads to oblivion. Where as raging against reality lends the necessary strength to survive. After all, if simply disolving in the void fluid was all it took to ascend... then does that mean rocks and sediment are ascended? So to scend, you must lower yourself to being dirt? That seems backwards. It could be true, but so could the complete opposite. Once you realize that being dirt is stupid: that ascension is oblivion, then what you should really want is permanence. If the cycle is life and death, then to break the cycle you must choose Life OR Death. Some choose death (oblivion) but if you refuse to let go, refuse to die... what would unending life look like? I think the echos are a fair interpretation of unending life. They broke the cycle but ended up on the opposite end.
@Fabrizio_Ruffo I think its flawed to consider the life and death binary as the "only." Why would you NEED to choose one or the other? Has your consciousness perceived there is no alternative realities or methods of being?
Imagine being some random Iterator on the other side of the world, just vibing and doing quantum hypermath, unaware of the borderline Shakespearean Real Housewives of Rainworld shenanigans going down between Suns, Harassment, Pebbles, and Moon.
Bro you shoulda been watching the logs you won't believe what just happened!!! PEBBLES GAVE MOON HIS LAST RAREFACTION CELL DUDE IT'S INSANE! Right spoilers sorry
@@retraceyourvodsAlso, has anyone else seen a weird fluffy green creature, cause there's one in my facilty grounds and he's apporaching my can. -some random iterator's last broadcast.
YES it is dramatic to witness the consequences of random gods. YES it is also viscerally hilarious to be trying to say all of this and staring down at a slugcat doing quadruple backflips effortlessly in the reduced gravity of your chamber. These two opinions coexist.
I debated rerecording that footage, since I took it from my let's play, but I feel like Rivulet is already viewed as the energetic one and it was too funny not to leave in!
i absolutely love the way pebbles delivered the line "i struggle to accept being a bug..." it 110% sounded exactly how i imagine he would actually say that
@@cycy8699 what the void worm truly is cannot be understood. Perhaps some eldritch entity thats all knowing. Why else could it be eternaly long in the void sea, never seeming to die of age and neither being able to be ascended. Idk but i think the void worm is an entire other cosmic entity then everything else
@@cherrydragon3120 Call it a hunch, especially because...well, that's really all it is, but I feel like the Void Worm could be the perfected form of what Pebbles was trying to do when he made the rot! A being that can never die because its code constantly rewrites that answer out of the equation and constantly grows despite having nothing to eat It can't ascend because its bound to the eternal task of helping others ascend (ie: Saint) and exists solely for that one purpose, ending the cycle...granted, a slight hole in that theory is that not even the ancients knew what this worm was, or even that it existed beyond their suction pipes being mangled, but the means of how it came to be could be similar to Saint!
@@damienearl8302 not a theory, just a thought, that likely would fail upon further inspection, but... What if the worm IS the void? (Reference: Christianity, where the God-father, God-son and God-holy spirit are simultaneously three different aspects AND they are one God) Void-sea and void-worm may also be different aspects AND one. Just the worm is an aspect of void that is given... shape? Focus? Goal? I'm sorry for my comment being messy (I'm falling asleep and translating this to English in my head), but i hope you het the idea
Upon the ending of the saint campaign, the player gets an achievement called “the cycle”. Maybe the cycle isn’t life and death, as nothing ever dies. Maybe the cycle is ascension and repetition, and everything is eventually fated to meet the void sea. One of the echoes also questions how many civilisations existed before the ancients, how many had ascended. They all ultimately served the void, in their attempts to break the cycle, while not realising that this is the cycle.
Tbh doesn't makes sense since ascension succeeded Also saint can't leave cycle due to not being alive, he is an echo that has something that still doesn't allows him to leave cycle
"Are you okay, fellow slu-" "I AM MORE OKAY THAN I HAVE EVER BEEN! I AM FREE OF MY MORTAL CHAINS! I HAVE SEEN WHAT I'VE NEVER WANTED TO SEE, YET NEEDED TO SEE!"
I like how Moon's Overseers show an image of Monk carrying 2 neurons! And when Riv gets to her, Moon has 7 nuerons instead of the 5 we've always seen before. So the brave little yellow guy canonically took some time time out of their search for their sibling to help Moon!
I believe it's also where Moon's cloak comes from. It's hidden down in a new Downpour specific area (from Rivulet's campaign) but somehow possible to get as Monk.
@@SolemnSunday I saw a tutorial for how to explore the SS as Monk (or another slugcat) including how to get the cloak. Actually, if you deliver it to Moon as Hunter for example, she will be wearing it in Gourmand's campaign and onward.
The first ending for artificer is likely the canon one, due to the fact that the scavenger population seemed to peak around their story… and… become drastically reduced in future tales. It’s safe to assume that the artificer completed their mission set upon them by five pebbles.
@@explosionspin3422 after Gourmand's "canon ending" (where you lose control of the character and a cutscene plays) he settles down and creates a slugcat colony. Before downpour, Survivor didn't really have an ending like this, instead the only goal being ascension and learning. Now, after you've beaten the Gourmand ending, you get access to this slugcat colony they formed, which you can go to and settle down with other slugcats, officially giving the survivor a true ending. Monk, similarly, can find the Survivor at this new colony as well, and they have a nice reunion.
@@dakrashayashi2796 I don’t mean to be that guy but by indulging in the lowest level of karma, violence, artificer gets locked to it, unable to ascend. If you only count the gameplay wise version of needing to kill the king scav to lock the karma truly, then the scavs would still have a king. It would also explain why scavs are so inclined to kill any slugcat shaped objects unless they provide offerings or show they are not a threat now that I think about it. In all it’s very unlikely the artificer could kill enough scavs to drive them mostly away from the facility grounds (because they come back from cycles and would only disappear if they felt living in the area would be a bad idea, which living with a murderous cat slug creature is probably one of said reasons to leave). This also shows that the artificer may have more lore importance than thought, because she is a prime example of a creature that cannot ascend because something binds it to the mortal world, showing that the ancient’s religion surrounding karma may be more than just religious harbijarbin if it ACTUALLY works
@Kermeet the Frug Scavs are designed by ancients for pipe cleaning. That's why they have more advanced "engineering" degree. Slugcats were created as messengers and they kinda stil are.
the true giga chad... mans really said "NAH, if your eternity, IM ETERNITY PLUS 1. YAYEET" my mans stood in the face of god and said "ok but repent tho"
Strolled up to the worms that live in the void and said if you want to wiggle in the void soup, you have to obey the same rules everybody else who wiggles in it does. *ASCEND*
The Saint seems like a gift to a dying world to me. Where they came from doesn't matter as much as their purpose; to free everything from their struggles. Being sent back is, I believe, much simpler than being unable to ascend, or a punishment for misguided beliefs or a truly endless cycle. Being sent back is a message. 'Your job isn't done. Come back when you're finished.'
One idea I've seen floated around is that saint was created by SOS If so it's almost exactly mirroring the situation the iterators are in. The iterators were created as a solution to ascension who were unable to ascend themselves. And saint was created the same. Though of course this is just theory and not canon
@@wildfire9280starting to think the void worm is the overall most powerfull and omniscient being in that world. It wants not to be ascended maybe. Or only when all else is gone
Arti's ascension ending is almost certainly non canon, because in future timelines there are no Scavs on Pebbles can, seemingly suggesting her slaughter was successful. I guess you could argue she got as far as the Metropolis echo and turned back at its warning
@@unknownpeople4613 doesn’t it become straight up impossible post game w the bad ending? I mean, you normally have to collect every single echo in the game to get a chance to ascend anyway since you start at 1 karma and killing the scav chieftain removes all pre-existing karma and locks you to 1 IIRC. That being said, I haven’t tested if echos still spawn or work post-bad ending…perhaps you could pull it off if you never touched a single echo before the bad ending? Feel like I remember hearing that they stop showing up for post murder ending arty though
Given what happens to Pebbles below deck, I believe the rot simply consumed anything still unfortunate enough to live in metro, eventually. Rotted Metropolis would make a good fan made region!
This game is as much about redemption as it is about karma and death. The story of Five Pebbles maturing and owning up to his mistakes is great! The idea of self sacrifice to help another you have wronged is heartwarming in this case, despite the tragedy it caused on both sides.
I'm a big fan of his arc. I've noticed some have trouble forgiving him, which I can totally understand, but I don't have a problem with it. I think this may come from understanding and empathizing with his original position a lot more, though.
@@SolemnSunday it’s a redemption arc done well, and ranks up with Avatar: The Last Airbender for the best I’ve seen (although I still have to give the top spot to Avatar). People having trouble forgiving him shows me they did it really well, in that he made a real mistake with tangible consequences, then suffered the result of those consequences.
@accelerationquanta5816Disagree. Why wouldn't you help someone if you have a possibility of doing it "for free"? It is always good thing to help someone in need even without any kind of "reward". The feeling of that you've actually helped someone is pretty enough by itself. One of the best one :) The word's that you have said, strictly in my understanding, is what makes human "not a human" actually... It sounds really selfish and mercantile... But again, I can't judge.
Saint carries a greater burden than even the iteraters, able to save everyone but himself. And there is no cure, no redemption, no way to take away his curse. He will live to see civilizations rise, and fall until the planet crumbles to dust, and blows away. everyone, and everything he knows will be gone, but he will remain. Having this curse, and choosing to help everyone around him is the most powerful form of selflessness. saint had literally nothing to gain, nothing to get in return, and yet he gives them the gift he can never have, and the peace he can only dream of. Thus is the fate not of a slugcat, but of a benevolent broken god
Some (lengthy and rambling, sorry) thoughts: 1. Artificer is maybe more relevant to the story - or at least, the slugcats' story, if not that of the iterators- than this video implies. We don't get to see interactions between scavengers and slugpups at points earlier in the timeline than their campaign since they don't appear naturally without hacking the game, but at the points where we're meant to be able to encounter pups, the scavs are /universally terrified/ of them. Artificer's reign of terror leaving a lasting impression on scavenger society, perhaps? (It might also inform why Hunter starts with negative scav rep, being closest to Artificer in both timeline and appearance.) 2. Another possible interpretation for Saint and their ending? - Saint is possibly, for whatever reasons of nature or nurture, a bodhisattva (often glossed/summarized as 'a Buddhist saint'). The actual concept is a bit more complex in practice, but in simplified, Religion 101 terms, it's someone who has achieved the enlightenment needed to escape the cycle of death and rebirth, but voluntarily rejects transcendence and remains within the karmic world in order to help guide others to transcendence. Under this interpretation, the Saint becoming an Echo/ failing to ascend and waking back up in the cycle would be not by arrogance or attachment but by choice, crossing back over the metaphorical and literal rubicon so that they can continue to ascend others. 3. Relating to your closing thoughts... I'm still kind of sloshing this around in my brain after watching this, so it's not as coherent or well articulated as my earlier points, but I was really struck by the juxtaposition of Pebbles dismissing slugcats with 'I can't even help myself' (I'd never noticed that particular repetition before without having all the iterator dialogue laid out like this without all the gameplay in between), with his effort, in Rivulet's scenario, to help Moon even at great cost to himself, and their reconciliation as he finally accepts 'I don't have to go through this alone' and finally lets himself /BE/ helped rather than pushing everyone away. Even though the help and support she can offer him is so much less at this point than when they were both in their prime, it still feels like such a major high point in the game's storyline. Regardless of what one makes of the karma/cycles/void/echoes/rubicon/metaphysics stuff, I think you're dead on with your summary of Rain World's themes re: forgiveness, connection/openness, and hope. Thank you for taking the time to put together this vid, it was not only skillfully done but also great food for thought.
Hey, thanks for the big response. I love stuff like this! 1: I think you're right about Artificer and something I hadn't even considered was how much the scavenger population seemed to decline afterward. Maybe that's relevant, in hindsight. 2: I haven't heard of that before but I also haven't done much studying of Buddhism personally. I think that's an awesome interpretation and not something I've seen anywhere else (though I'll admit I didn't watch any other videos about this stuff in order to keep my video clear of outside influence!) 3: That really stuck out to me too. Dude is consistently defiant. It's mentioned in a broadcast/pearl I didn't reference that he's always been that way but has started to calm with time (and the help of SRS), if I recall. I didn't cover all of the pearls or content because I was hoping with the care I put into this that it'd reach the mainstream, and I wanted those viewers to still have content to explore in the game if it inspired them to play it themselves! By all means feel free to drop by the Discord if you want to talk about the lore more!
I really like your interpretation on Saint. Considering that The Cycle seems to have heavily inspired by Buddhist ideas, I think it's a very valid theory. I'll be taking the interpretation as my own head canon now, thanks. :D
I agree on that interpretation of Saint. Saint even starts at karma 2, which is associated with reproduction. Saint is an ascended being and wishes to make more of it's kind, "reproducing" by helping others ascend as well.
2. I think it’s also very likely the time we spend as the Saint isn't the first time they reach the void sea. I don't think the opening cutscene is a dream or vision; it their previous visit to the Void. I do think they successfully ascended Moon and Pebbles, and they didn't reset like Saint does. Afterall, something's been taking down iterators over the uncertain eons to make the world get cold. Maybe Sliver of Straws little creation has been busy for a while and is just now getting to Moon and Pebble's neighborhood.
@Cylus1527 .. God that sends a shiver down my spine. SOS sent the tripple confirmation that they had a globally repeatable means to of ascendance for the global population... It made the Saint.
This was honestly a movie of sorts. Rainworld lore is too beutifull man, had me teraing up for moon and pebles. The voice acting was absolutely top tier
If you loved the Rain World's lore, you'll love the Land of Lustrous manga and anime. Pretty much the same universe, but you'll get to meet the ancients.
@@Enceos you had to remind me of that depressing of a story but still it is a good manga it gave me a roller-coaster of emotions and sometimes switches faster than my mood swings could, to me at least. I'm still gonna read it again though
1:19:45 considering they don’t attack you, I’ve always interpreted that the Guardians actually wanted you to ascend them, perhaps since they no longer have the purpose of guarding the void sea and perhaps also cannot ascend through natural means
Why would they make it harder by summoning creatures in the room you're in then? Even if they're not the reason why the spawn there, why don't they lock their pipes too to ensure they get ascended?
@@xiloisalvl1artist368 makes it seem that the Guardians also want you to ascend all the other creatures as well. I don’t remember fully, but I think non-Rubicon creatures such as Squidcadas only appear in Guardian rooms. Scavs also don’t appear at all. Maybe these creatures cannot ascend normally due to the nature of their karma and the Guardians wish for Saint to ascend all of them
@@titadogelo5090 wow, just rebeat Rubicon for second time (it's now better that I thought) and never noticed that there is no scavs at all. Guess they are next civilization.
awwww. I always felt bad about forced to kind of kill them. Their design is just so cool! (I was mad as fuck at my survivor campaigns tho. I somehow found subterrarian as my third region and out of every fucking place i somehow found the depths first... I read max karma and farmed to karma 5 with pain and he still doesn't like me😢. Yeah my first playthrough was weird as fuck)
Guardians main purpose is to prevent creatures bellow required max karma to try to ascent. Trying to ascent bellow required karma will lead most certain fail ascension and become echo. Even with max karma isn't full proof, there is still chance to fail if they still remain any attachments or ego.
Honestly, I'm not sure that there's a definitive canon ending for Hunter. Permanently dying only affects the world if that's the ending you get on that save file. If you ascend, there's no HLL or karma flower left behind, whereas for Artificer we *know* that she killed the scavenger chieftain because there are significantly fewer scavengers left in the world after that point, and no more elite scavengers or their unique weaponry. Plus, the scavengers are still wary of slugcats by the time Hunter comes along. Then there's also the fact that dying is more of a fail-state than anything. It's the only ending without an associated cutscene. Also, Rivulet was absolutely purposed. They have a pearl containing a map straight to Pebbles' rarefaction cell! I think they were sent to take that cell and give it to Moon and it was just a happy coincidence that Pebbles wanted that anyways.
Why would killing 1 person mean there are less as a whole? If we consider that we get the drone and go to the King versus get the drone, visit all the regions, find all the echos, then use a scav to ascend... that would require a lot more kills and a lower population. The exception to this is if Artificer attempts to eradicate the Scavs from existence. Unfortunately Scavs are too neutral to future slugcats for this to be true.
@@Buglin_Burger7878 It's implied that artificer kills at the very least all of the scavengers on pebbles, hence why there aren't any at any point further in the timeline. Why would they stop after killing just one when they have a grudge against the whole species? Scavengers aren't neutral to future slugcats for a very very long time. The next one in the timeline is hunter, which comes a long while later, and hunter's base reputation with scavengers is terrible. That makes sense, given that hunter is also red and has a scar over one eye.
SOMA is great too! I love the ideas it put forth. Jacob Geller (one of my big inspirations) talks about it in one of his recent videos too, and it's really worth checking out! (It's the Head Transplant video)
Soma is such a head scratcher and philosophicaly mindfucking. I literaly had to sit down for a moment and think on the story that was told there that conciousness being copy pasted... is not living forever. Its just making copies of who you were but they'll live on to become someone else.
During moon's stage with Spearmaster, I feel as though it would have been prudent to leave in her "Scream" from in game. It is so powerful, especially after you've played the base game. They don't make sounds like that.
I thought about doing that with several sounds throughout the game, and it's probably one of my bigger regrets with the final video actually! (Which I guess means I'm pretty happy with the video overall but still!)
I finished Saint's campaign some days ago. Almost entirely spoiler free. Not gonna lie, seeing five pebbles in his dilapidated form, barely clinging to consciousness and replaying an off tune pearl because it's all he has left. Man, that shit broke my heart. Thankfully up until that point I hadn't seen anything about the campaign.
@@htspencer9084- To me it seems Life is the most brazen form of rebellion against a cold, unfathomably ancient, inconceivably immense and hostile universe. Hope? Hope is just next level insanity. Shine on you crazy diamond!
1:16:29 This her dialogue while an echo is active in her superstructure in the Saint’s presence. If you return after meeting the echo (she of course has no recollection of already seeing you), her dialogue is a lot more mundane, and she doesn’t seem to recognise anything special about you. Just relieved that some of your race still survive.
You didn't mention it, but canonically monk brings Moon about 4 neurons, as well as finding her cloak in the wreck of her body and giving it to her. Additionally Riv has a pearl that points to the location of the Rarefraction Cell, and given she has the mark of communication, it is not impossible that she was told to get it by her iterator.
@@SolemnSunday yep, a "maintenance order for linear power rails", which is the term for the region of pebbles that has the Cell, and also where Pebbles himself tells you to look
@@perplexedon9834 I have no idea how I missed that! I really do wonder where the Rivulet came from. I had a vague theory it was created by Moon, then she forgot during a shutdown. It can't be that though, because she couldn't possibly purpose anything in that state. We don't even see her give the mark post-collapse.
@@SolemnSunday it could be NSH, as he is known to produce green pearls (and has green overseers that can occasionally be seen in Subterranean) like the schematic Riv has, and Hunter's pearl, as well as having conducted the original rescue mission. This is what I favour. On Reddit someone suggested it was Pebbles himself, as Riv is the same colour as his overseers. The idea would be that Pebbles could not command a creature to directly kill him, but he could ask a creature to help a friend. He then wiped his memory, flushing Riv out of the facility into the garbage wastes and down into the drainage system in the process. It's a cool idea. Riv is also faster and can swim underwater vast distances, so it's also possible that she has travelled between iterator facilities in a way that would simply not be feasible for the other slug cats. Maybe she is an evolved descendent of Gourmand's tribe that heard the oral stories of Moon and Pebbles that Gourmand told. She could have actively and independently sought another iterator, got the schematics in case she needed reference and then set out to save the Passing God of her people's legends. Pebbles sure seems to think that the slugcat tribes are alive and well in Rivs time, as he references their Chittering language and doesn't seem to think she is purposed in the way Spearmaster is. This is the coolest idea to me, the idea of a maverick slugcat leaving her people behind to save an iterator. If not evolved, perhaps she was specifically designed and purposed for the current conditions of Pebbles and Moon's facilities, which could even fit SRSs modus operandi of designing creatures.
@@perplexedon9834 Man, this is a super well thought out response. I hadn't seen half of these theories! You ought to swing by the Discord, we have a whole channel for discussions like this you may enjoy!
VA acting across the whole video is 10/10. And your wife's voice just IS Moon in my headcanon now. She's perfect. Easily one of my favourite lore / story videos on YT
Man, thanks so much. It's wild to me how many views this has gotten. People have watched it already for almost FOUR YEARS worth of time and it hasn't even been out a month. I wonder how many others will hear us while playing. 🤔
i would interpret saint's ability to "perform an ascension" as being the same thing as having your karma level increased, and that saint's campaign simply offers a glimpse into the life of an echo.
that woukd certainly explain why visiting an echo sends you back to the beginning of the cycle with raised karma, you get brain-blasted to death and wake up the next day
@@Ribbons0121R121 You know... that honestly seems much more likely than I thought. We were left with the hanging question of "what did they discover" before they just seemingly immediately died. And here we are shown the saint going to multiple others and... well, we see what probably happened. Huh.
Wow, you're the only one who connected all the dialogues chronologically. I now see the story in a new light. Thank you so much. The universe of Rain World and the cycles of life remind me of the Land of Lustrous plot, where they also sought escape and ascension, and someone had the power to ascend others.
i think the idea of the slugcats having a "canon" ending doesn't vibe with the game, at least not with non-dp slugcats. ascension seems to grant the ascendee whatever they desired in life, so presumably hunter doesn't actually wake up with nsh again, but instead gives them a vision which sets them at peace? otherwise tho this is a really cool video! I'm glad to see more lore stuff out here
@@ashfur3453 i wouldn't say hll was non-canon per se, but rather just a different timeline. though, given what we know about ascension, if one hunter ascends so must all the rest
From what I've understood, nsh put a piece of himself in hunter, which is what causes the turbo cancer, but since hunter entering the void fluid means the piece does as well, nsh ascends with hunter, which was the second objective of hunter's mission
It wasn't that clearly stated in the video, and its not a big deal, but the Artificer becomes an echo after it tries to ascend, due to it's constant wrath holding it back.
@@SolemnSunday its not directly stated, but its implied since after the artificer meets her ascended pups she then dissapears, which is unlike the rest of the normal ascensions.
@@MrSirSquishy I’m not 100% certain this is the case, as what happens to Saint has a much clearer parallel to echoes and the effects are entirely different. Whereas Saint grows the weird tentacly things that echoes have, Artificer seems to just slowly dissolve into nothingness, with different particle effects. Granted Saint could be a special case, but it’s hard to say, we just have our interpretations to go off of.
@@MrSirSquishy Personally I've always been suspicious of the void sea and always liked the theory that Artificer might be the only one we see actually ascend using it. After all, the other scugs go down and see the earthly thing they desire most, the thing that would certainly keep them bound to the physical world. Artificer sees the same, and then she lets it go and disappears.
Spoilers below the break (if it’s even needed for this video) I actually legitimately found the Cell before I made it to Five Pebbles. Simply (“””simply”””) exploring his superstructure and surviving (“””surviving”””) the Uber-cancer that had spread throughout. Came across the Cell a little ways before I found Pebbles, and took it like a true curious slugcat would. Also I figured it was what was causing the shortened cycles and broken shelters, so… yoink.
@@SolemnSunday I feel as though the rivulet stumbling across the rarefaction cell mimics the conversion about bugs in a mazing stumbling upon a solution given enough time. In a game with cycles of death and rebirth, why can’t their be more than one canon?
@@SolemnSunday I _was_ planning on going up the wall as riv but the goddamn parkour section is cancer (pun intended) with the rot infestation. so I just said fuck it and went through pebbles. Finding out unfortunate development entirely faded away was fucking crazy though
Swear to god the only Rain World video that doesn't shitpost abridge the story and includes the actual texts and dialogues as it's presented in respect towards our own interpretations being able to take place
I believe the Saint is essentially Rain World’s Buddha. He achieves enlightenment, but instead of being content in his nirvana, and leave the world behind, he chooses to upset the process and tumble back down into the world so that he can lead others to transcendence. He will now give ascension to any creature who has desire of it
That seems to be the general consensus from the comments. It's definitely the interpretation I lean most toward. I'm going to be honest that I don't have enough of a background in Buddhism to really know what the Buddha represented, but having seen it explained in this context several times now I definitely agree.
@@SolemnSunday lmao I only learned about Buddhism just today in my Chinese Philosophy class. I knew I had to revisit Rain World because finally everything made sense!!
Perhaps that's why Saint ascends the void worm? For the other slugcats, the void worm drags them deeper into the void sea and allows them to complete their ascension, so Saint refusing to be dragged in could be their way of rejecting ascension so they can instead return to the mortal realm.
well at the very least the "canon" is very ambiguous, especially around most slugcats endings so you can take heart in that. take hunter for example, if you ascend with him he wont appear as a Rot in your gourmand run. He only appears if you fail your hunters run... intrestingly in the same room your hunter run ended.
@@lautarotazzioli6618 Moon Will always appear ""Repaired"", Even if You never revive her as Hunter, the Hunter long legs appears only if You fail a Hunter run tho, not if You ascend.
This game never fails to get me so emotional over the iterators' struggles, not just the slugcat's own adventures. But I think what hurts the most is knowing that Five Pebbles experienced the same pain that the ancients who became echos did, and in his torment he refused to reflect on his own faults and blamed everyone and everything else. Additionally, in regards to the Saint's ending, I believe that the attempt to ascend the void worm and becoming an echo as a result was essentially karma itself punishing the saint for abusing the gift it had been given. Not necessarily that the Saint was consciously attempting to circumvent the cycle out of pride, but for the transgression of denying others the journey to enlightenment themselves. At it's core the solution the ancients and the iterators saw was the antithesis of ascension yet even by chance and the machinations of infinity it can occur.
Some toughts: The voice acting is incredible Does this universe have space like ours does? Like can they go other planets or do other planets not even exist? If they do is the void fluid dust thing also happening with them? I find it quite ironic how the iterators tried to find the solution to the great problem which was a very low chance and they couldnt but lttm had the very low chance of interrupting 5p in a very crucial moment and was able to, rw is just a ton of things going wrong a lot of the time Also i dont think we need canon endings for some slugcats, ill post on the discord an image that represents it
1: I don't actually know and that's a good question. Perhaps there's an answer in some of the graffiti scattered around. Rockets or something. Maybe worth looking into? 2. I think it does an amazing job of creating that "right place at the right time" feeling. I can't think of many other games I've played that do that so well (Souls Series, notably Sekiro!) 3. I think that's fair. What happens to them isn't always entirely relevant since the bulk of the story is about the Iterators.
1: these is a moon in the sky (implying more celestial bodies) 2: Moon interrupted Pebbles not while he was trying to find the solution, but rather while he was trying to cross himself out. And this wasn't really a coincidence, but rather the natural result of Pebbles attempting something so dangerous while sharing the same groundwater as Moon.
It'd be super cool if you, your wife and some other people all Voice Acted Rain World and turned it into a mod, you guys' voices fit so well with the characters!
My perspective is that Saint is a Bodhisattva, the beings that put off their ascension to help others ascend. He needs to achieve max karma to gift others with max karma, an instantaneous release from the Cycles, as an Echo does, living out the dream of rejecting its own ascension that we start Saint run by seeing. Unlike Echoes, which indefinitely adhere to a location, unable to move on for any number of reasons, they all have one thing in common. They were, in some small way, decisions to hold onto something. Saint holds onto the dream, the goal of all things ascending. This held desire is the goal of the Bodhisattva. Also, when Saint interacts with the Void Worms at the top of Rubicon, he isn't approaching Ascension and being rejected. He's approaching reality from the other side, in a dream like the dreams we see at the end of every other slugcat's campaign. Saint falls into the Void Sea, falling and falling, not swimming, but the screen eventually goes blank and then suddenly we see Saint in the threshold between. The threshold has many barriers trying to keep entities from traversing, and I theorize these are like the guardians to the Garden of Eden. If the goal of the Cycle is to keep mortals mortal, then the goal of the guardians is to keep the immortals immortal. Or it would be if guardians and the beings in Rubicon couldn't be ascended with Saint's powers. While the mechanical Guardians, not merely the other denizens of Rubicon, are resilient and take multiple hits to ascend, they can be ascended, indicating they have some sort of purposeful resilience to ascension, presumably as a part of their function. They trap Saint in the room they are in, but allow other creatures to appear or leave freely. However, once Saint gets past them all, Saint ends up... swimming through Void Fluid, which they didn't do when they ended up in Rubicon originally. One thing I always felt needed to be pointed out is that the Void Worms have the same shapes and numbers of appendages as the Echoes. Slender, long protrusions leading to antennae-like tendrils, a pair of more generic tendrils. Saint acquires them after hitting the Void Worm with an Ascension, as if the Void Worm initiated them. The Void Worms also decide whether or not to drag the slugcats down to the depths of the Void Sea. Can it not be true that they also send the Echoes back, as they fail to pass the Rubicon test? That sending them back, sending Saint back, somehow makes them a little more like the Void Worms? And the fact that we don't see any Void Worms in Saint's run until Saint is on the Other Side seems to imply they can either switch sides... or the Void Sea dissolved them over the extreme timeframes between the others' and Saint's campaigns. Perhaps if it is the former, they sent Saint back. But, rather than becoming a true echo, Saint rejected the ascension in their post-ascension dream, having succeeded in their own natural ascension, leaving their dream self to suddenly be rewound in time and injected back into their physical body, further back in their cycle. We see this as a green slugcat glow just prior to the very end, with a flash, as their mind turns into an Echo, but their real body is not. This is their Cycle. TL;DR Saint ascended, but rejected ascension to ascend others. This made Saint have to return from the Other Side, back in an older part of their own Cycle.
When voice acting 5 pebbles you have an amazing way of portraying the bitterness and hatred in him, even when he's not angry or lashing out I can still hear a deep sense of malice and defeat in the iterators voice, you voice pebbles how harlan Ellison voices A.M, it's amazing
Watching this video is like reading an incredible dystopian philosophical science fiction novel where in the end it leaves a permanent mark. Thanks for making this! Amazing work.
@@minnarew See I wasn't too sure who GS and HR were, but they're anonymous and they're in very similar colors to SRS and NSH so I just went with those voices. Are they ever mentioned elsewhere and I missed it?
I’ve been wondering where my mental voice for moon came from for a while now, and randomly decided to rewatch this video today. I was… not expecting to get my answer immediately upon doing so lmao Also the zoom in on “land fish” absolutely ended me, and the high detail render when Pebbles basically describes Rivulet as “no thoughts head empty” had me borderline crying it was so funny. The wet mouse truly is a being
This is a phenomenal summary of the affairs of passing gods. The usage of only Rain World tracks for background music was a great idea! They were implemented in well and it shows even more of Rain World. I noticed lore being left out, still leaving things for players to discover. Although it is over an hour long, if you're someone reading this comment before watching the video, I highly recommend you watch the entire video. It *will* be worth your time.
Yeah I intentional left out a lot of passing details about the world that would be fun to discover (example, the memory crypts and Miros bird origin!) I also tried to show pretty areas without too much of a connecting path, so people can play and find the areas themselves. Really glad this didn't go unnoticed!
@@SolemnSunday Good job at giving the new people a chance to play the game while also peaking their interests. If I didn't know what Rain World was, I definitely would have stopped then and played before watching the rest of it!
I absolutely adore this video, it is a beautiful love letter to rain world. This game inspires such powerful emotions, and I think you were able to perfectly capture the game's tone here. The voice actors were incredible as well, especially moon and four needles under plentiful leaves.
Thanks a lot! Four Needles was my buddy. He'd been keeping up with the project and last minute I was like "Hey, you want to voice a short paragraph for this?" It's a funny story. He misread the line and said "My name was Snug", and when I noticed I had to overdub it, which is why it sounds like he sings "sung", since my voice is so much higher!
I always thought 5 Pebbles would sound less... scratchy, gravelly, deep? Listening to him speed ancient gives the impression he has a higher voice, like Moon, but a bit deeper. But, that is merely my opinion, and it works well enough
@@SolemnSunday yeah, for characters without an agreed upon voice, canon or fanon, no matter what you pick for voice acting, you are gonna get complaints that you did their voice wrong. Dare I say it's an... Unfortunate Development?
after explaining the lore to a friend of mine i came to an realization, correct me in anything if i'm wrong, but i believe that the iterators might have found the solution. during rivulet's campaign we can see that the other iterators in the background above the clouds are fine, but suddenly in the next campaign, they have all collapsed as we can't see any of them anymore, i used to think that this was because a lot of time had passed between saint's and riv's campaign but if so much time had passed i think that there would be much more signs of structural degradation all over the map, so i came up with the theory that the other iterators found the triple affirmative, ascended and collapsed all roughly at the same time, explaining how all of them are gone in saint's campaign, but since communication is impossible to pebbles and moon due to structural damage, they were never been sent the signal or made aware that the solution had been found, then i started thinking about suns and nsh, would they simply abandon pebbles and moon? if not how could they help? the only way for them to communicate with pebbles and moon is through a slugcat and even so how would moon or pebbles set the solution in action with how much little they can do in their state? then i realized, the saint, maybe suns and nsh did send a slugcat to help moon and pebbles, one that would not give them the information on how to do it but simply ascend them directly, that would explain why and how the saint exists and why and how he ended up there, he was sent by suns and nsh specifically to ascend moon and pebbles, this theory might have somethings wrong but it sounds very plausible as the devs confirmed that challenge 70 is not cannon
Holy shit I just found the perfect video ever regarding Rain World and it's lore- This is so wonderfully made, every single part of it, so obviously made by someone who cares deeply for this game and it's world. Thank you for this video, it's a work of art that I'll likely end up rewatching many times over.
Really nice lore video, thanks! I would like to write down a little clarification, still, just for funsies. So I'm warning you for SPOILERS. Sorry in advance for my english, it's not my mother language. Here we go. Rubicon is an inherited word from Italian. It doesn't really have a meaning. It's a name of an Italian river: Rubicone. That river is important for an old story that goes back to the Roman Empire and Julius Caesar. The short version is: Once, the Roman Empire forbade Julius Caesar to cross the Roman borders with an army, because the Roman politicians wanted him dead. Julius Caesar didn't accepted that and crossed the river Rubicone with an entire army. With that feat he later became the Emperor of the Roman Empire. Notable is the fact that, before crossing the river, he waited a little, thinking. Only then he crossed it, uttering the word "Alea iacta est" (the die is cast). I find this legend particularly similar to the final moments of the Saint: he refuses to kneel to a "state of things" and, by doing so, he became the most powerful being, by crossing a river and defeating its guardians. For anyone who is interested, the entire legend can be read here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Rubicon
God I would want to see a dubbing mod made by so much. I think i watched this video like 15 times yet it never stops to amaze me how well your voices fit all of the characters.
Yeah, it's still something I'd like to do it's just really unlikely because I'd have to rerecord everything, and then record everything we didn't already record. Then I'd also have to find someone who knows what to do with that audio!
Rivulet actually contains a pearl in it's belly that outlines the schematics for an iterator structure, and also highlights the location of the rarefaction cell. So it's entirely possible that rivulet could find the rarefaction cell before meeting pebbles.
Great video, man! I've never seen a Rain World lore video with this level of detail and care put into it. There's so much stuff that I now get thanks to you. I'll be on the watch for your future projects.
Thanks so much! I'm not sure what's coming next, but I love doing lore dives on games like this so if you have something in mind you're always welcome to drop by the Discord and suggest!
Not sure if anyone else still comes back to this video, but I use this as background noise to study to. Its soothing in a weird way considering the story that takes place but the music and dialogue help me focus.
I was actually playing rainworld when i was watching this, and the part where Moon says "Thousands of us" made me notice something. I was at the wall at the time, and i actually looked into the distance above the sea of clouds. In the game, we only hear about 4 of the iterators, but i never realized that there were really thousands of them. Wonder what they are like...
The amount of work and effort you`ve put into this is astounding. The voice acting for the iterators and sound distortions are great, and I love that you`ve structured the story chronologically, it makes it much easier to follow, and it`s very satisfying to see their inner turmoils progressing with time. Thank you very much for doing this, absolutely my favourite RW lore video.
i don't normally comment on videos, but this is seriously a great video. I know more than the average person about rain world and it's a game thats near and dear to my heart, but man, this is high quality stuff. Definitely going to share with friends to try and get them into rainworld.
I got this video in my recommendations a couple of months ago having no idea what Rain World is, and now I'm a new fan. Thanks so much for introducing me to such a gem of a game!
I've listened to this video multiple times at work and it's only today that I realize that the voice acting is not in the game, and is entirely this video. Absolutely beautiful work to whoever did the voices, genuinely disappointed I can't hear more lines from the characters in this way when I finally play through rainworld.
@@SolemnSundaylove your and your wife’s voice acting for this, you both captured the mood and chemistry of the characters perfectly ❤ love rewatching this video
it's theorized that the hunter's disease was some of NSH's microbes, and by hunter ascending, NSH was ascended by proxy, avoiding the taboo and it explains why we see NSH in hunter's ascension ending
I want you to know that I watched this video from start to finish without pause and was sad when it ended. This is incredible storytelling, congratulations
fantastic voice acting, cinematography, and wonderful organization of the lore in a digestible manner. kudos to everyone who worked on this immense project!! stuff like this really fuels my creativity
Thanks! It was just my wife and I. A buddy did the one echo voice near the end. Also of course the wonderful art from the artists but it wasn't made for this video!
i know nothing about rainworld but their cool ai engine, i watched the whole thing in one sitting and then sat there for some time just existing. what a great game. what a great story. i love pebbles and i love moon and i love all the slugcats and i love you for making this video, it was very easy to follow and extremely fun to watch
Your conclusion even though as you said there may be no ovearching theme still managed to make me cry. When you started listing the smaller thenes that can be observed, it finally dawned on me that I can relate to a lot of them and the feels got me
While the specific events are not cannon, the implications of arena challenge 70 are quite clear, the saint was likely created by SoS and is the triple affirmative, represented by the 3 dots on it's forehead. Like 5P and LttM say after they've been ascended, the solution was not possible to find as it was past a point of no return, even if any being found it, by nature said being would be unable to communicate it. SoS realized this and created a being that could come back from the point of no return and bring knowledge of the solution with it. That's what the opening cutscene of the campaign was, the Saint returning with the knowledge of the solution, that event likely happened long before the start of the playable campaign as just a memory Saint was recalling at that moment. The reason SoS broadcasted the triple affirmative but didn't communicate the Saint's existence was likely because they had only confirmed the triple affirmative at the very moment that the Saint acted on it's purposed design and started to ascend them, possibly even unwillingly. SoS just didn't have the time to convey any more information to the other iterators. The reason the Saint showed up so late in the timeline was because it was presumably ascending every other sentient being in the world as it was designed to do. I personally believe that 5P and LttM were the last two sentient beings in existence that the saint had to ascend, after which the Saint tried to ascend themselves, but their special ability became a curse, as like 5P mentioned after being ascended, he could not see an end or beginning to the Saint's tale, remarking on what a horrifying destiny they have found. The Saint was only able to release the iterators by being doomed to never be able to escape the cycle.
Really well thought out theory)write up. I didn't want to go into the Sliver of Straw challenge as I had heard the developers states it wasn't canon, and it's been unclear to me in what capacity it isn't. Fully? Just the silly gamey part? So I just avoided it in full. I probably could have addressed it though, in hindsight.
Also, I say the Saint only ascended sentient beings as they are the only ones truly aware of the cycle and suffering because of it. It was specifically designed to end that suffering, but non-sentient beings, even if they had an innate awareness of the cycle, did not fully comprehend it and therefore did not experience that same suffering. That and the fact to get what I consider to be the cannon ending only requires ascending 5P and LttM and and does not require ascending all other beings on the map. Although that may have just been done for the sake of gameplay and in the true cannon the Saint ascended all living things before attempting to ascend themselves.
Also also, the saint tried to ascend the void worm in an attempt to get it to stop it from preventing their own ascension, as we can see in the Artificer ascension sequence (and to some degree all other ascension endings), the void worm(s?) may play at least some part in whether a successful ascension is preformed, appearing to guide successful ascensions.
The algorithm started recommending me Rain World stuff about a week ago, and I've poured through everything since. This video was perfectly timed, and very well done. I hope it blows up
Custom theory of mine is that Saint is that "triple afirmative". Being able to "Ascend" everything. Its winter by the time we play as it, cause he was "made" in a far away land, reaching late to the game map. but idk
Love to see such a high quality rain world video coming out! I just adore the game and seeing something like this makes me happy there are other folks who might love it even more than I do. I remember watching someone play through the base game (because the games too hard for me to get through any of it lol) and thinking that story/lore was more about the ancients and their society and the cycles and how to break free. In a way it is about those things but obviously I see now that it was about the iterators. It really makes me sad to think about their story, how the Ancients built them and effectively abandoned them, made them with such little thought or little care for them. Idk it's just really tragic. I hope Moon and Pebbles and everyone else are happy in the Rubicon or wherever else. I can't help but be a little relieved that they are together there, at the end of it all.
There's a lot of information about the Ancients and their struggles and history that I didn't go into, actually! It wasn't really relevant to the part of the story I wanted to tell and would bog things down. Plus I wanted stuff for new players to find because it's inevitable someone will watch this and *then* buy the game, even if it's only one person. The story makes me pretty sad too, and I'm really glad we get to see them together. That's a bigger deal than I think it appears at first. Like meeting your close internet friend for the first time.
@@LostSwiftpaw Glad you're enjoying it! That's one of the reasons I think this video has done so well; the game's just *really* hard. It got a lot of bad press on release for that if I recall, but it has somewhat of a cult following now.
This is a very late response, but I actually don't think the Slugcats aren't for cleaning pipes, I think they're purposed as messengers, since that's how a lot are used it seems. Scavengers however could be cleaners, as they have a tendency at collecting objects laying on the ground and have a high capacity of holding items.
I was wondering if someone would catch something like that. I had to record so much footage that I used warping. Surprised it took 5 days for someone to see though!
A thing I think is worth pointing out, is the Saint challenge minigame where you challenge another Iterator and avoid its attacks while repeatedly hitting it with your "Ascension gun". While I myself don't know for sure, I have heard people say and claim that this Iterator, which is unlike any other we see, is actually Sliver of Straw herself. and this Bullet-Hell minigame is a test that She employs the Saint to complete and prove it can survive out in the world, which ends, of course, in her Ascension and subsequent Death. The idea is that The Saint *is* The triple affirmative. But Straw's own Death prevented her from telling them what exactly the solution was, only that one existed, leaving the Saint to wander the earth alone, traveling through the regions and eventually coming across the grounds of Five Pebbles & Looks to the moon, long after everything else has happened as a result of her passing, such as the Rot Incident and collapse of moon and later Pebbles. The Saint is what lets them go past the point of no return. at least until their own Cycle begins anew, as they all do. it passes its elightenment onto them when they enter the rubicon, and for a moment, they realise that their problem was never going to be solved otherwise. not without ascension by the saint. The Saint was created to grant Ascension to beings that otherwise cannot Ascend themselves, or have no desire to. from the many creatures still scurrying around the facility grounds, to the passing Gods themselves, the Iterators, who's own Self Destruction Taboos prevented them from moving on. I think it's easy enough to deduce that this little green Creature, one who reaches enlightenment and passes it onto others, is closely if not directly inspired by *The Buddha* Himself. The Saviour of the world trapped in a cycle of Birth, life, Death, and Rebirth. One who would lead the world into Nirvana, into an eternal peace beyond life. The saint is its own version of The Buddha, stuck on its *own* Cycle, trapped as it reaches enlightenment while passing it down to others until perhaps, one day, its work may be done. but from what we see in its campaign, Its work is *far* from done. Even as it breaks others from *their* Cycles, it persists within its *own.* And that is its Terrifying Fate.
@@SolemnSunday Ahh, Fair enough. I imagine Saint might still have been what Ascended/Killed her, but the whole bullet hell minigame prolly didn't happen leading up to it.
@@krysmun Unfortunately, I was thinking the same thing but the dev who commented on it on the Discord specifically said "Sliver of Straw was long dead when Saint was born"... Now if we go with reincarnation theories, the Saint being reincarnated in different ways each time, I can get behind that. There's still plenty of ways it works out, in my opinion.
@@SolemnSunday ohh. I see now. ah well. was an interesting Idea I'd heard though. but Understandable. It just makes you wonder what Sliver's own method actually was now. would we ever know what her original Triple Affirmative was? who knows.
i have my own theory/head cannon on saint, perhaps Sliver Of Straw created the Saint, and gave Saint 3 objectives. 1: Accend Sliver of Straw. 2: if it was succesfull, sent out the triple affermative broadcast and 3: Accend all Itterators.
You're forgetting 1 glaring problem: Sliver of Straws ascended/died very long ago in the past before any slugcats campaigns, before 5P got rot, before moon collapsed.
@@1God1FuryThat could be why the world is freezing over in saint's campaign. Its been a long time and saint has already ascended all the other iterators, leaving the planet frozen because the only active ones left are also in complete disrepair.
@@BillThePillCosby Then other Iterators would have noticed or received another triple affirmative through communication or through slugcats sending pearls. I doubt Seven Red Suns and No Significant Harassment would simply leave 5 pebbles and The Moon slowly decay if they had important info to share with that could help them.
This video is amazing! thank you so much for putting in the work to do something like this. I've just finished my first campaign a few days ago (which btw I did while watching your old videos, this game can be very confusing at times xD) , and tbh I didn't understand a single thing story wise, so this just saved my life
id love to just say that i watched this video before playing rainworld and was immediately captivated. i decided to buy the game, and try it out, mostly so i could show my family just how amazing it is. the world building is impeccable. i now own it on switch (first version i bought) and on computer (downpour on pc as well. easier to play bc of mods and dev controls) id love to thank you for making this video as this specific video got me into, what i can now say is, one of my all time favorite games. i will 100% be watching this with my family once i complete the game for them. i love love love this video 💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜 (edited for spelling)
My interpretation of Saint's story is that, regardless of his beginnings or his origins, his ultimate purpose lies in the ascension of all other creatures but itself. Its job isn't complete until it guides every creature to ascension- *every* creature. Including the void worm. When the Saint tries to ascend the void worm, the void worm rejects the ascension (much like how the Guardians take three ascension attempts before theyre successful) and sends the Saint back to its beginning, as a way of saying, "your job here isn't done yet." Only once the Saint has successfully ascended every other creature will it be successful in its attempts to ascend the Void Worm. From there, maybe the Saint can finally achieve its own ascension, no longer bound to the cycle by an unfulfilled purpose. Or perhaps the saint remains within the cycle, with only the company of the Echoes left to inhabit the world.
Absolutely in love with this video and the work put into it. I've been obsessed with Rain World ever since the game came out, even before the first balancing patch that changed it so u didn't lose all your mental map progress youd made during a cycle upon death, and the game means so much to me. I was one of the head admins of the Rain World Amino for like 2 years (when i was like 12 lol) and i met many of my best friends still in the Rain World community. The Downpour DLC made me ecstatic for new Rain World content, and i thoroughly enjoyed playing all the new campaigns almost entirely blind. I love this game, I truly do. Thank you for making this massive video gathering the (otherwise very scattered) story of the game together. On another more specific note, I was surprised you didn't mention or bring up Challenge 60, since it brings light to some of the Saints past and the final fate of Sliver of Straw! I was waiting for you to mention it, but I do also understand that it is impossible to get every little bit, and I do suppose that maybe it could be argued that Challenge 60 isn't 100% guaranteed to be canon since the other challenges certainly don't seem to be? Either way, fantastic video, keep up the great work!
There aren't many games or medias in general that make me cry. Not because I'm tough or anything, just that it takes a lot of emotion. I feel attached, sad, that bittersweet release, or whatever. But a lot of times thats all. SOMA made me cry, and silly rain game did too. Both fairly consistently, watching friends play still hit hard. Rain world did so much with so little. Downpour did not fail to deliver. There is so much emotion in this game. So much pain, tragedy, triumph that still just isn't enough... All you can do is try to make things hurt less. The game is hard. Too hard for many. It makes it very rewarding to get better at, but it also makes the silent story telling hit so hard. When you ascend the first time as survivor, the feeling is hard to describe. Because its not just an ending, not just a triumph for the survivor. From the very beginning you were just as lost as they were. You died, stuck in the cycle. You learned, struggled, made it through difficult or frustrating situations, because there was no other way. And there you are, you've made it. You've finally found that release. You've finally escaped the cycle. And yet, is that what you really wanted? There's no going back. You have so many different feelings and having been forced to struggle through the survivors pain the whole way means what you are feeling is not for a character, you are feeling it for yourself. The other endings, things like moon reaching out to pebbles, are just heartwarming and heartbreaking. Knowing that you've triumphed, that you've defied logic and given such a huge gift to random gods. And yet, the best they have is struggling to remember things trapped in broken boxes barely able to talk to each other, let alone anything or anyone else. Destroyed broken bodies barely alive, pebbles stuck in the misery of hours and days and months listening to a short hymn remembering when he had people, when he was whole, unbroken. When he had purpose. Its a feeling i dont think a media besides a game could capture well, because you did it yourself. You didn't watch, you struggled and you succeeded. And you have to let that brief moment of 'i won!' sink down into reality and wonder where that leaves you. Rain world plays like nothing ive seen, has an ecosystem and world that i havent seen reproduced, and it has a story that takes so little, and cements itself into your being. It has existential level problems that you are stuck thinking about forever. Its funny, silly slugcat rain game where you run from lizards, hits my heart harder than almost anything else out there. Incredible. Its absolutely either my favorite or one of my favorite games of all time, and one of my favorite stories of all time. Like i mentioned, SOMA is another. Those two games are things i think about at least once a month, they will never leave me. What they showed me was too important to forget. Its a special thing when a story can become a part of you and shape how you interpret future problems. This was an amazing run through, not just an analysis but a borderline movie. It doesn't just explain, it shows. Its probably the closest thing I've seen to letting you experience the power of the story without just playing it. Of course its impossible to capture all the magic, saint in particular is such an absolute wild ride of emotions that i dont think can be gotten without living his cycles. But this was very well made. I'm obsessed with reviews, theories, and explorations of rain world haha. I've been watching basically every video essay or review or whatever since well before downpour. I can't get enough of this story. And this is one of the best explorations I've ever seen.
pretty cool summary of the story :D great job on va too, even if some voices are different from what i personally imagine, the delivery and the effects are really cool
What a beautiful game, what a beautiful STORY, this video ALMOST made me cry at the end there, especially the ending part with the animation, I actually watched a video before this one that had a different interpretation of the ending of the Saint's campaign, about how it was the only being able to pass the line of no return, but be able to come back afterwards. All around though, amazing video, I'm glad I watched it all the way through.
I never played the game, but the voice acting was so well done that I only realized by reading the comments that they are not original. So well, and great video too!
A lore video so good that I watched it out of curiosity, listened to the whole thing because of the sterling production values, and which got me into the game itself (a full five slugcats, seven runs, and seventy-five hours in). Absolutely brilliant.
I recall someone said that the Saint dream at the start was a dream of something it wanted or remembered, like other echos being bound to the spot they remember, but the fact Saint remembered/dreamt of max karma didn't allow it to become an Echo
Hey it's me from Reddit amazing video I can't watch the full video because I haven't beat the game yet but just looking at it I can tell it's a really high quality video keep up the good work man 👍
I like how the game gives us all the information and there are people who just play the game and never even know and never will know the gigantic and deep story that this game has. I love rainworld man
Amazing video! I loved your analysis and all your interpretations! And the voice acting was on point. I have a full on crack theory that I've held close to my heart because I believe it's very sweet, that being the idea that there aren't actually 8 slugcats. Gourmie, Survivor, and Monk are their own kitties, but I like to think that the other 5 are the same slugcat reincarnating over and over and finding themselves drawn back to pebbles and moon, due to the lingering affections instilled into a tiny little spearmaster by Suns' care for Pebbles and by Moon's kindness. A compulsion that grew stronger when Pebbles assisted Artificer in the journey, later personified by the hunter, who returned to NSH to be purposed yet again into little Rivulet (because there's no way Riv isn't purposed) before finally culminating in the Saint. The arrant cycle, spinning in on itself forever to ascend all iterations of the iterators
You know what, I love this so much I'm going to pin it. There are dozens and dozens of very insightful comments but this is the first time I've seen this idea and I love it.
Oh!! I have a similar theory! That those slugcats are the same mind being reincarnated over and over again, but their inclination to search for Pebbles and Moon doesn't come from it being instilled in Spearmaster. It started w/ their mission, but that's all it was. Afterwards, though, it was memory.
The ancients hated the cycles, because even after death, they'd be reborn into a different body, *but remember their past lives*, hence the urge to end it for good. In the same way, perhaps a slugcat too retains memory, and WE are that memory! We are that slugcat, time through time exploring this world, visiting the iterators, because we already know em
Off topic, but it'd be funny if perhaps Rivulet and Saint start with the mark of communication, because after so many returns they just learned to understand them, or perhaps the mark became so integral to their being, that it just stayed through rebirth
@@apotoz Yes! I figured it had to be a given for incarnations to retain memory from their previous lives (some at least) because why else would the ancients want to escape? If it didn't actually affect their individual lives in some way there'd be no point. I love the point you made about the mark of communication especially since Saint doesn't have a mark at all! It really does seem like they just learned the language across their iterations.
idk, even if there isn't that much to support the theory and it probably wasn't the intended interpretation either, I always felt like with all the talk of the cycle and reincarnation within the story it was always kinda missing a meaningful demonstration. We never actually see anything get reincarnated! Some say that when you die in the game the next time you respawn is a case of rebirth but that always rubbed me the wrong way since the story explicitly made clear that you don't wake up as the same thing any more. Unless I missed something, of course. Still, I do like one singular stubborn slugcat saves local gods over countless generations more :)
@@ashfall7006 Yeah yeah yeah!!
And I heard it once explained that reincarnation does put you in a different body, we just don't see it happen with the player slugcat as a gameplay mechanic! a simplification, to make gameplay more seamless. So it doesn't discredit the theory!
Also, I think we kinda see reincarnations? I think when you kill enough creatures, you may advance their lineage, and more difficult variants start appearing, which we could interpret as those ones you killed coming back, plus if you take a vulture's mask, they'll look for you through multiple cycles, even if you kill it, meaning they also come back and vaguely renember you!
The story in this game seems to be based off Buddhism and trying to escape the cycle of reincarnation and the way a Buddha is created is being reincarnated over and over and slowly building karma to eventually escape the cycle. In short I believe your theory is correct as I think the Saint and the Buddha share the same role of helping others escape the cycle.
Something is too funny about the random gods giving their monologues about anger or empathy and whatnot and the scugs are just backflipping and throwing spears into the walls and eating pearls
Kinda cute, ngl. I think that's sort of their point. They're unpretentious animals just enjoying life instead of being tormented by existential terror.
@@ved2360 what about fartificer?
@@pitpiccione1191 they're also enjoying life, just uhh... different.
@Ved then why didn't the Saint assend? If all it lived for was ascending others, then why would ascending a giant noodle be bad?
It doesn't know what the noodle is. It probably doesn't even know what ascension is. How could a being that pure and stupid not ascend according to the rules layer out so far?
The only thing I can think of is that echos are assended. Based on that one echo that has accepted its state and realizing that chasing ascension was stupid anyway. What if ego and individuality is the key? Giving up leads to oblivion. Where as raging against reality lends the necessary strength to survive.
After all, if simply disolving in the void fluid was all it took to ascend... then does that mean rocks and sediment are ascended? So to scend, you must lower yourself to being dirt? That seems backwards.
It could be true, but so could the complete opposite. Once you realize that being dirt is stupid: that ascension is oblivion, then what you should really want is permanence.
If the cycle is life and death, then to break the cycle you must choose Life OR Death.
Some choose death (oblivion) but if you refuse to let go, refuse to die... what would unending life look like?
I think the echos are a fair interpretation of unending life. They broke the cycle but ended up on the opposite end.
@Fabrizio_Ruffo I think its flawed to consider the life and death binary as the "only." Why would you NEED to choose one or the other? Has your consciousness perceived there is no alternative realities or methods of being?
Imagine being some random Iterator on the other side of the world, just vibing and doing quantum hypermath, unaware of the borderline Shakespearean Real Housewives of Rainworld shenanigans going down between Suns, Harassment, Pebbles, and Moon.
It's literally a reality show. You, as a random iterator, can read the story unfold in global chat.
Bro you shoulda been watching the logs you won't believe what just happened!!! PEBBLES GAVE MOON HIS LAST RAREFACTION CELL DUDE IT'S INSANE! Right spoilers sorry
sans?
@@retraceyourvodsAlso, has anyone else seen a weird fluffy green creature, cause there's one in my facilty grounds and he's apporaching my can.
-some random iterator's last broadcast.
All the iterators are just part of a massive world-wide Discord server watching as crap goes down with 5Pebbles & Moon
YES it is dramatic to witness the consequences of random gods. YES it is also viscerally hilarious to be trying to say all of this and staring down at a slugcat doing quadruple backflips effortlessly in the reduced gravity of your chamber. These two opinions coexist.
I debated rerecording that footage, since I took it from my let's play, but I feel like Rivulet is already viewed as the energetic one and it was too funny not to leave in!
I mean most of them are just animals
I find it emphasises the symbolism of it XD
i absolutely love the way pebbles delivered the line "i struggle to accept being a bug..." it 110% sounded exactly how i imagine he would actually say that
dudeeee and then you learn that the most impactful creature in the whole lore is a worm
And the Robot didnt disappoint either. It tried so hard to not be a bug that it almost killed its sibling AND itself
@@cycy8699 what the void worm truly is cannot be understood. Perhaps some eldritch entity thats all knowing. Why else could it be eternaly long in the void sea, never seeming to die of age and neither being able to be ascended. Idk but i think the void worm is an entire other cosmic entity then everything else
@@cherrydragon3120 Call it a hunch, especially because...well, that's really all it is, but I feel like the Void Worm could be the perfected form of what Pebbles was trying to do when he made the rot! A being that can never die because its code constantly rewrites that answer out of the equation and constantly grows despite having nothing to eat
It can't ascend because its bound to the eternal task of helping others ascend (ie: Saint) and exists solely for that one purpose, ending the cycle...granted, a slight hole in that theory is that not even the ancients knew what this worm was, or even that it existed beyond their suction pipes being mangled, but the means of how it came to be could be similar to Saint!
@@damienearl8302 not a theory, just a thought, that likely would fail upon further inspection, but... What if the worm IS the void? (Reference: Christianity, where the God-father, God-son and God-holy spirit are simultaneously three different aspects AND they are one God)
Void-sea and void-worm may also be different aspects AND one. Just the worm is an aspect of void that is given... shape? Focus? Goal? I'm sorry for my comment being messy (I'm falling asleep and translating this to English in my head), but i hope you het the idea
Upon the ending of the saint campaign, the player gets an achievement called “the cycle”. Maybe the cycle isn’t life and death, as nothing ever dies. Maybe the cycle is ascension and repetition, and everything is eventually fated to meet the void sea.
One of the echoes also questions how many civilisations existed before the ancients, how many had ascended. They all ultimately served the void, in their attempts to break the cycle, while not realising that this is the cycle.
The cycle is even bigger then that, much, much bigger. But to explain it would probably take a long time
Tbh doesn't makes sense since ascension succeeded
Also saint can't leave cycle due to not being alive, he is an echo that has something that still doesn't allows him to leave cycle
Slugcat then: "No... my family..."
Slugcat now: "COME MY SLUGGY BRETHEREN, LET US JOIN THE ENTITIES THAT MOULDED US, JOIN THEM IN THE VOID!"
"Are you okay, fellow slu-"
"I AM MORE OKAY THAN I HAVE EVER BEEN! I AM FREE OF MY MORTAL CHAINS! I HAVE SEEN WHAT I'VE NEVER WANTED TO SEE, YET NEEDED TO SEE!"
The duality of scug
Earliest Slugcat: ...
I like how Moon's Overseers show an image of Monk carrying 2 neurons! And when Riv gets to her, Moon has 7 nuerons instead of the 5 we've always seen before. So the brave little yellow guy canonically took some time time out of their search for their sibling to help Moon!
I believe it's also where Moon's cloak comes from. It's hidden down in a new Downpour specific area (from Rivulet's campaign) but somehow possible to get as Monk.
@@SolemnSunday I saw a tutorial for how to explore the SS as Monk (or another slugcat) including how to get the cloak. Actually, if you deliver it to Moon as Hunter for example, she will be wearing it in Gourmand's campaign and onward.
The first ending for artificer is likely the canon one, due to the fact that the scavenger population seemed to peak around their story… and… become drastically reduced in future tales. It’s safe to assume that the artificer completed their mission set upon them by five pebbles.
The main ending for all the scugs is probably the canon one. Gourmand met HLL, Survivor found Gourmand's kids, Monk found Survivor, etcetera.
nothing says they can't have killed a whole bunch still and gotten the second ending instead ;)
wdym by survivor met Gourmand's kids? (I haven't replayed survivor)
@@explosionspin3422 after Gourmand's "canon ending" (where you lose control of the character and a cutscene plays) he settles down and creates a slugcat colony.
Before downpour, Survivor didn't really have an ending like this, instead the only goal being ascension and learning. Now, after you've beaten the Gourmand ending, you get access to this slugcat colony they formed, which you can go to and settle down with other slugcats, officially giving the survivor a true ending. Monk, similarly, can find the Survivor at this new colony as well, and they have a nice reunion.
@@dakrashayashi2796 I don’t mean to be that guy but by indulging in the lowest level of karma, violence, artificer gets locked to it, unable to ascend. If you only count the gameplay wise version of needing to kill the king scav to lock the karma truly, then the scavs would still have a king. It would also explain why scavs are so inclined to kill any slugcat shaped objects unless they provide offerings or show they are not a threat now that I think about it. In all it’s very unlikely the artificer could kill enough scavs to drive them mostly away from the facility grounds (because they come back from cycles and would only disappear if they felt living in the area would be a bad idea, which living with a murderous cat slug creature is probably one of said reasons to leave). This also shows that the artificer may have more lore importance than thought, because she is a prime example of a creature that cannot ascend because something binds it to the mortal world, showing that the ancient’s religion surrounding karma may be more than just religious harbijarbin if it ACTUALLY works
I love how these god like robots are always finding themselves needing help from some sewer rats
YOU TAKE THAT BACK RIGHT NOW 😭
Can the same not be said of our gods?
@@gabrielabatista6016 the slugcats descend from an animal designed to clean the sewer pipes. So they are definitely closer to being like sewer rats
@Kermeet the Frug Scavs are designed by ancients for pipe cleaning. That's why they have more advanced "engineering" degree.
Slugcats were created as messengers and they kinda stil are.
@@calluxdoaron1903 it's literally said in the game scugs were made for cleaning pipes
The saint reaches the cusp of ascension, staring into the face of eternity, and chooses that eternity too must ascend.
the true giga chad... mans really said "NAH, if your eternity, IM ETERNITY PLUS 1. YAYEET" my mans stood in the face of god and said "ok but repent tho"
@@leoneyamada5408 "okay but have you tried repenting"
Strolled up to the worms that live in the void and said if you want to wiggle in the void soup, you have to obey the same rules everybody else who wiggles in it does. *ASCEND*
The emphasis on that “Land fish” sounded like such a slur 😂
Always that SAME BLANK EXPRESSION.
*wet mouse.*
I died at “Wet Mouse”
@@GhostGK21 RIP 🙏
Yo what’s the time stamp
The Saint seems like a gift to a dying world to me. Where they came from doesn't matter as much as their purpose; to free everything from their struggles. Being sent back is, I believe, much simpler than being unable to ascend, or a punishment for misguided beliefs or a truly endless cycle. Being sent back is a message. 'Your job isn't done. Come back when you're finished.'
The treatment he give to the void worm that inspects him makes me question this...
A dying.. RAIN WORLD?
@@foxxojones4757 Maybe the void worm has to be the last organism ascended. Has there ever been a void sea without one?
One idea I've seen floated around is that saint was created by SOS
If so it's almost exactly mirroring the situation the iterators are in.
The iterators were created as a solution to ascension who were unable to ascend themselves.
And saint was created the same.
Though of course this is just theory and not canon
@@wildfire9280starting to think the void worm is the overall most powerfull and omniscient being in that world. It wants not to be ascended maybe. Or only when all else is gone
Arti's ascension ending is almost certainly non canon, because in future timelines there are no Scavs on Pebbles can, seemingly suggesting her slaughter was successful. I guess you could argue she got as far as the Metropolis echo and turned back at its warning
Actually you still can go and ascend, it be a lot harder thou
@@unknownpeople4613 doesn’t it become straight up impossible post game w the bad ending? I mean, you normally have to collect every single echo in the game to get a chance to ascend anyway since you start at 1 karma and killing the scav chieftain removes all pre-existing karma and locks you to 1 IIRC. That being said, I haven’t tested if echos still spawn or work post-bad ending…perhaps you could pull it off if you never touched a single echo before the bad ending? Feel like I remember hearing that they stop showing up for post murder ending arty though
@@will-oy1wz haha sing bomb go brrr
@@will-oy1wz echoes still show, but they useless, you locked on 1 karma
Given what happens to Pebbles below deck, I believe the rot simply consumed anything still unfortunate enough to live in metro, eventually.
Rotted Metropolis would make a good fan made region!
This game is as much about redemption as it is about karma and death. The story of Five Pebbles maturing and owning up to his mistakes is great! The idea of self sacrifice to help another you have wronged is heartwarming in this case, despite the tragedy it caused on both sides.
I'm a big fan of his arc. I've noticed some have trouble forgiving him, which I can totally understand, but I don't have a problem with it. I think this may come from understanding and empathizing with his original position a lot more, though.
@@SolemnSunday it’s a redemption arc done well, and ranks up with Avatar: The Last Airbender for the best I’ve seen (although I still have to give the top spot to Avatar).
People having trouble forgiving him shows me they did it really well, in that he made a real mistake with tangible consequences, then suffered the result of those consequences.
@accelerationquanta5816Disagree. Why wouldn't you help someone if you have a possibility of doing it "for free"? It is always good thing to help someone in need even without any kind of "reward". The feeling of that you've actually helped someone is pretty enough by itself. One of the best one :)
The word's that you have said, strictly in my understanding, is what makes human "not a human" actually...
It sounds really selfish and mercantile... But again, I can't judge.
@@GelatinousMateYes but the feeling ,that you helped someone is the reward .
@accelerationquanta5816bro what
To whoever voiced moon in the pearl reading, this is the most calmed I've been in a rain world video
That'd be my wife!
@@SolemnSunday Tell her that it's the most calming voice ever!
The voices used here are now my canon interpretation of their voices. They’re so well done
@@SolemnSunday I could've sworn these were all AI generated, on account of all the weird-ass unnatural inflections.
@@michaelbuckers Nope! I guess that means I hit my mark though because I wanted them to sound robotic!
Saint carries a greater burden than even the iteraters, able to save everyone but himself. And there is no cure, no redemption, no way to take away his curse. He will live to see civilizations rise, and fall until the planet crumbles to dust, and blows away. everyone, and everything he knows will be gone, but he will remain. Having this curse, and choosing to help everyone around him is the most powerful form of selflessness. saint had literally nothing to gain, nothing to get in return, and yet he gives them the gift he can never have, and the peace he can only dream of.
Thus is the fate not of a slugcat, but of a benevolent broken god
-saint
The name is very fitting
A true saint
That's some SCP level shit and i love it
my beliefs is that saint can ascend and pass on, once he is done ascending everything and everyone else
Some (lengthy and rambling, sorry) thoughts:
1. Artificer is maybe more relevant to the story - or at least, the slugcats' story, if not that of the iterators- than this video implies. We don't get to see interactions between scavengers and slugpups at points earlier in the timeline than their campaign since they don't appear naturally without hacking the game, but at the points where we're meant to be able to encounter pups, the scavs are /universally terrified/ of them. Artificer's reign of terror leaving a lasting impression on scavenger society, perhaps? (It might also inform why Hunter starts with negative scav rep, being closest to Artificer in both timeline and appearance.)
2. Another possible interpretation for Saint and their ending? - Saint is possibly, for whatever reasons of nature or nurture, a bodhisattva (often glossed/summarized as 'a Buddhist saint'). The actual concept is a bit more complex in practice, but in simplified, Religion 101 terms, it's someone who has achieved the enlightenment needed to escape the cycle of death and rebirth, but voluntarily rejects transcendence and remains within the karmic world in order to help guide others to transcendence. Under this interpretation, the Saint becoming an Echo/ failing to ascend and waking back up in the cycle would be not by arrogance or attachment but by choice, crossing back over the metaphorical and literal rubicon so that they can continue to ascend others.
3. Relating to your closing thoughts... I'm still kind of sloshing this around in my brain after watching this, so it's not as coherent or well articulated as my earlier points, but I was really struck by the juxtaposition of Pebbles dismissing slugcats with 'I can't even help myself' (I'd never noticed that particular repetition before without having all the iterator dialogue laid out like this without all the gameplay in between), with his effort, in Rivulet's scenario, to help Moon even at great cost to himself, and their reconciliation as he finally accepts 'I don't have to go through this alone' and finally lets himself /BE/ helped rather than pushing everyone away. Even though the help and support she can offer him is so much less at this point than when they were both in their prime, it still feels like such a major high point in the game's storyline. Regardless of what one makes of the karma/cycles/void/echoes/rubicon/metaphysics stuff, I think you're dead on with your summary of Rain World's themes re: forgiveness, connection/openness, and hope. Thank you for taking the time to put together this vid, it was not only skillfully done but also great food for thought.
Hey, thanks for the big response. I love stuff like this!
1: I think you're right about Artificer and something I hadn't even considered was how much the scavenger population seemed to decline afterward. Maybe that's relevant, in hindsight.
2: I haven't heard of that before but I also haven't done much studying of Buddhism personally. I think that's an awesome interpretation and not something I've seen anywhere else (though I'll admit I didn't watch any other videos about this stuff in order to keep my video clear of outside influence!)
3: That really stuck out to me too. Dude is consistently defiant. It's mentioned in a broadcast/pearl I didn't reference that he's always been that way but has started to calm with time (and the help of SRS), if I recall.
I didn't cover all of the pearls or content because I was hoping with the care I put into this that it'd reach the mainstream, and I wanted those viewers to still have content to explore in the game if it inspired them to play it themselves!
By all means feel free to drop by the Discord if you want to talk about the lore more!
I really like your interpretation on Saint. Considering that The Cycle seems to have heavily inspired by Buddhist ideas, I think it's a very valid theory.
I'll be taking the interpretation as my own head canon now, thanks. :D
I agree on that interpretation of Saint. Saint even starts at karma 2, which is associated with reproduction. Saint is an ascended being and wishes to make more of it's kind, "reproducing" by helping others ascend as well.
2. I think it’s also very likely the time we spend as the Saint isn't the first time they reach the void sea. I don't think the opening cutscene is a dream or vision; it their previous visit to the Void. I do think they successfully ascended Moon and Pebbles, and they didn't reset like Saint does. Afterall, something's been taking down iterators over the uncertain eons to make the world get cold. Maybe Sliver of Straws little creation has been busy for a while and is just now getting to Moon and Pebble's neighborhood.
@Cylus1527 .. God that sends a shiver down my spine. SOS sent the tripple confirmation that they had a globally repeatable means to of ascendance for the global population... It made the Saint.
This was honestly a movie of sorts. Rainworld lore is too beutifull man, had me teraing up for moon and pebles. The voice acting was absolutely top tier
If you loved the Rain World's lore, you'll love the Land of Lustrous manga and anime. Pretty much the same universe, but you'll get to meet the ancients.
@@Enceos you had to remind me of that depressing of a story but still it is a good manga it gave me a roller-coaster of emotions and sometimes switches faster than my mood swings could, to me at least. I'm still gonna read it again though
I like how srs seemed more concerned over the fate of the Spearmaster than Five Pebbles.
I mean, if your friend was dying or your pet, who would you be sad over more?
@@Foxett25 I'm not sure.
@@Foxett25 was this question supposed to prove a point? this is a difficult question for anyone to answer
@@bonus8386 Kind of, I myself would grieve over my pet more. Probbably because i have no friends, but that's besides the point.
Nvm I have a friend and a crush in one
1:19:45 considering they don’t attack you, I’ve always interpreted that the Guardians actually wanted you to ascend them, perhaps since they no longer have the purpose of guarding the void sea and perhaps also cannot ascend through natural means
Why would they make it harder by summoning creatures in the room you're in then? Even if they're not the reason why the spawn there, why don't they lock their pipes too to ensure they get ascended?
@@xiloisalvl1artist368 makes it seem that the Guardians also want you to ascend all the other creatures as well. I don’t remember fully, but I think non-Rubicon creatures such as Squidcadas only appear in Guardian rooms. Scavs also don’t appear at all. Maybe these creatures cannot ascend normally due to the nature of their karma and the Guardians wish for Saint to ascend all of them
@@titadogelo5090 wow, just rebeat Rubicon for second time (it's now better that I thought) and never noticed that there is no scavs at all. Guess they are next civilization.
awwww. I always felt bad about forced to kind of kill them. Their design is just so cool! (I was mad as fuck at my survivor campaigns tho. I somehow found subterrarian as my third region and out of every fucking place i somehow found the depths first... I read max karma and farmed to karma 5 with pain and he still doesn't like me😢. Yeah my first playthrough was weird as fuck)
Guardians main purpose is to prevent creatures bellow required max karma to try to ascent. Trying to ascent bellow required karma will lead most certain fail ascension and become echo. Even with max karma isn't full proof, there is still chance to fail if they still remain any attachments or ego.
Honestly, I'm not sure that there's a definitive canon ending for Hunter. Permanently dying only affects the world if that's the ending you get on that save file. If you ascend, there's no HLL or karma flower left behind, whereas for Artificer we *know* that she killed the scavenger chieftain because there are significantly fewer scavengers left in the world after that point, and no more elite scavengers or their unique weaponry. Plus, the scavengers are still wary of slugcats by the time Hunter comes along. Then there's also the fact that dying is more of a fail-state than anything. It's the only ending without an associated cutscene.
Also, Rivulet was absolutely purposed. They have a pearl containing a map straight to Pebbles' rarefaction cell! I think they were sent to take that cell and give it to Moon and it was just a happy coincidence that Pebbles wanted that anyways.
Why would killing 1 person mean there are less as a whole?
If we consider that we get the drone and go to the King versus get the drone, visit all the regions, find all the echos, then use a scav to ascend... that would require a lot more kills and a lower population.
The exception to this is if Artificer attempts to eradicate the Scavs from existence. Unfortunately Scavs are too neutral to future slugcats for this to be true.
@@Buglin_Burger7878 It's implied that artificer kills at the very least all of the scavengers on pebbles, hence why there aren't any at any point further in the timeline. Why would they stop after killing just one when they have a grudge against the whole species?
Scavengers aren't neutral to future slugcats for a very very long time. The next one in the timeline is hunter, which comes a long while later, and hunter's base reputation with scavengers is terrible. That makes sense, given that hunter is also red and has a scar over one eye.
Hunter does have elite scavenger spawns
@@HYDROCARBON_XD far fewer!
I’d never heard of this game but was utterly captivated by the ideas presented here. This is the most remarkable sci fi game I’ve seen since Soma.
SOMA is great too! I love the ideas it put forth. Jacob Geller (one of my big inspirations) talks about it in one of his recent videos too, and it's really worth checking out! (It's the Head Transplant video)
Soma is such a head scratcher and philosophicaly mindfucking.
I literaly had to sit down for a moment and think on the story that was told there that conciousness being copy pasted... is not living forever. Its just making copies of who you were but they'll live on to become someone else.
You should absolutely give it a try - even though the full story is spoiled here, it's still worth playing for yourself.
@@SolemnSundayJacob Geller fans be like: Oh The Horrors ❤
@@SolemnSundayabsolutely LOVE Jacob Geller
During moon's stage with Spearmaster, I feel as though it would have been prudent to leave in her "Scream" from in game. It is so powerful, especially after you've played the base game. They don't make sounds like that.
I thought about doing that with several sounds throughout the game, and it's probably one of my bigger regrets with the final video actually! (Which I guess means I'm pretty happy with the video overall but still!)
@@SolemnSunday It's an excellent video with very few missed opportunities, it's just such a powerful moment.
She did say slag buildup is very painful.
What "scream"?
@@shilohmagic7173 Moon screams when she goes unconscious in the Spearmaster scenes.
I finished Saint's campaign some days ago. Almost entirely spoiler free. Not gonna lie, seeing five pebbles in his dilapidated form, barely clinging to consciousness and replaying an off tune pearl because it's all he has left. Man, that shit broke my heart. Thankfully up until that point I hadn't seen anything about the campaign.
I cried so many times as i listened to this during work. My coworkers must think im nuts. Its tragic... But so happy too.
Hope is the most brazen form of rebellion in the face of despair.
@@htspencer9084- To me it seems Life is the most brazen form of rebellion against a cold, unfathomably ancient, inconceivably immense and hostile universe. Hope? Hope is just next level insanity. Shine on you crazy diamond!
@@ColdHawkLife is hope manifest.
1:16:29 This her dialogue while an echo is active in her superstructure in the Saint’s presence. If you return after meeting the echo (she of course has no recollection of already seeing you), her dialogue is a lot more mundane, and she doesn’t seem to recognise anything special about you. Just relieved that some of your race still survive.
That makes so much more sense. Thanks for the correction!
You didn't mention it, but canonically monk brings Moon about 4 neurons, as well as finding her cloak in the wreck of her body and giving it to her.
Additionally Riv has a pearl that points to the location of the Rarefraction Cell, and given she has the mark of communication, it is not impossible that she was told to get it by her iterator.
Is that what's on Rivulet's pearl? I thought it was *just* an Iterator blueprint! That's very interesting.
@@SolemnSunday yep, a "maintenance order for linear power rails", which is the term for the region of pebbles that has the Cell, and also where Pebbles himself tells you to look
@@perplexedon9834 I have no idea how I missed that! I really do wonder where the Rivulet came from. I had a vague theory it was created by Moon, then she forgot during a shutdown. It can't be that though, because she couldn't possibly purpose anything in that state. We don't even see her give the mark post-collapse.
@@SolemnSunday it could be NSH, as he is known to produce green pearls (and has green overseers that can occasionally be seen in Subterranean) like the schematic Riv has, and Hunter's pearl, as well as having conducted the original rescue mission. This is what I favour.
On Reddit someone suggested it was Pebbles himself, as Riv is the same colour as his overseers. The idea would be that Pebbles could not command a creature to directly kill him, but he could ask a creature to help a friend. He then wiped his memory, flushing Riv out of the facility into the garbage wastes and down into the drainage system in the process. It's a cool idea.
Riv is also faster and can swim underwater vast distances, so it's also possible that she has travelled between iterator facilities in a way that would simply not be feasible for the other slug cats. Maybe she is an evolved descendent of Gourmand's tribe that heard the oral stories of Moon and Pebbles that Gourmand told. She could have actively and independently sought another iterator, got the schematics in case she needed reference and then set out to save the Passing God of her people's legends. Pebbles sure seems to think that the slugcat tribes are alive and well in Rivs time, as he references their Chittering language and doesn't seem to think she is purposed in the way Spearmaster is. This is the coolest idea to me, the idea of a maverick slugcat leaving her people behind to save an iterator.
If not evolved, perhaps she was specifically designed and purposed for the current conditions of Pebbles and Moon's facilities, which could even fit SRSs modus operandi of designing creatures.
@@perplexedon9834 Man, this is a super well thought out response. I hadn't seen half of these theories! You ought to swing by the Discord, we have a whole channel for discussions like this you may enjoy!
VA acting across the whole video is 10/10. And your wife's voice just IS Moon in my headcanon now. She's perfect. Easily one of my favourite lore / story videos on YT
Man, thanks so much. It's wild to me how many views this has gotten. People have watched it already for almost FOUR YEARS worth of time and it hasn't even been out a month.
I wonder how many others will hear us while playing. 🤔
i would interpret saint's ability to "perform an ascension" as being the same thing as having your karma level increased, and that saint's campaign simply offers a glimpse into the life of an echo.
that woukd certainly explain why visiting an echo sends you back to the beginning of the cycle with raised karma, you get brain-blasted to death and wake up the next day
@@slugcat6226 “you get brain-blasted to death and wake up the next day.” Well that’s certainly one way to put it lmao
personally i see saint as silver of straws solution, a karma gun creature
@@Ribbons0121R121 You know... that honestly seems much more likely than I thought. We were left with the hanging question of "what did they discover" before they just seemingly immediately died. And here we are shown the saint going to multiple others and... well, we see what probably happened. Huh.
@@JetBalrog Saint is able to ascend iterators too! attempting to ascend Moon and Pebbs will let you find them in the iterator can replica in Rubicon
Wow, you're the only one who connected all the dialogues chronologically. I now see the story in a new light. Thank you so much. The universe of Rain World and the cycles of life remind me of the Land of Lustrous plot, where they also sought escape and ascension, and someone had the power to ascend others.
i think the idea of the slugcats having a "canon" ending doesn't vibe with the game, at least not with non-dp slugcats. ascension seems to grant the ascendee whatever they desired in life, so presumably hunter doesn't actually wake up with nsh again, but instead gives them a vision which sets them at peace?
otherwise tho this is a really cool video! I'm glad to see more lore stuff out here
Yeah, I always considered hunter long legs to be non-canon
@@ashfur3453 I fully agree if any slugcat was going to be able to 20-25 cycle the echo's and pebbles it's hunter.
@@ashfur3453 i wouldn't say hll was non-canon per se, but rather just a different timeline. though, given what we know about ascension, if one hunter ascends so must all the rest
omg hi Bagels
From what I've understood, nsh put a piece of himself in hunter, which is what causes the turbo cancer, but since hunter entering the void fluid means the piece does as well, nsh ascends with hunter, which was the second objective of hunter's mission
It wasn't that clearly stated in the video, and its not a big deal, but the Artificer becomes an echo after it tries to ascend, due to it's constant wrath holding it back.
Ah is that the implication there? That's something I totally missed and that's a shame cause it'd be a cool detail to include!
@@SolemnSunday its not directly stated, but its implied since after the artificer meets her ascended pups she then dissapears, which is unlike the rest of the normal ascensions.
@@MrSirSquishy I’m not 100% certain this is the case, as what happens to Saint has a much clearer parallel to echoes and the effects are entirely different. Whereas Saint grows the weird tentacly things that echoes have, Artificer seems to just slowly dissolve into nothingness, with different particle effects.
Granted Saint could be a special case, but it’s hard to say, we just have our interpretations to go off of.
@@beakcartilage7840 yeah I always found that strange. But since the ending isn't cannon, its safe to imagine whatever we want.
@@MrSirSquishy Personally I've always been suspicious of the void sea and always liked the theory that Artificer might be the only one we see actually ascend using it. After all, the other scugs go down and see the earthly thing they desire most, the thing that would certainly keep them bound to the physical world. Artificer sees the same, and then she lets it go and disappears.
Spoilers below the break (if it’s even needed for this video)
I actually legitimately found the Cell before I made it to Five Pebbles. Simply (“””simply”””) exploring his superstructure and surviving (“””surviving”””) the Uber-cancer that had spread throughout. Came across the Cell a little ways before I found Pebbles, and took it like a true curious slugcat would. Also I figured it was what was causing the shortened cycles and broken shelters, so… yoink.
Yeah the more I think about that, the more I can see it happening. It's probably 50/50 on who goes through Pebbles vs. climbing The Wall.
did he have any special dialogue? like hey man wtf are you doing with that xD
@Ceiz It's the second set of dialogue during the Rivulet section! Right around 1:04:30
@@SolemnSunday I feel as though the rivulet stumbling across the rarefaction cell mimics the conversion about bugs in a mazing stumbling upon a solution given enough time. In a game with cycles of death and rebirth, why can’t their be more than one canon?
@@SolemnSunday I _was_ planning on going up the wall as riv but the goddamn parkour section is cancer (pun intended) with the rot infestation. so I just said fuck it and went through pebbles. Finding out unfortunate development entirely faded away was fucking crazy though
Swear to god the only Rain World video that doesn't shitpost abridge the story and includes the actual texts and dialogues as it's presented in respect towards our own interpretations being able to take place
That's because all of us are autistic and the only way we can relay information is through a vaneer of irony and comedy
@@Passw0rdYT average h*mestuck
Why is this actually true 😭@@Passw0rdYT
Incredible video! It's an honor to be featured at the end, you did an amazing job encapsulating the story of the iterators. I love this
I believe the Saint is essentially Rain World’s Buddha. He achieves enlightenment, but instead of being content in his nirvana, and leave the world behind, he chooses to upset the process and tumble back down into the world so that he can lead others to transcendence. He will now give ascension to any creature who has desire of it
That seems to be the general consensus from the comments. It's definitely the interpretation I lean most toward. I'm going to be honest that I don't have enough of a background in Buddhism to really know what the Buddha represented, but having seen it explained in this context several times now I definitely agree.
@@SolemnSunday lmao I only learned about Buddhism just today in my Chinese Philosophy class. I knew I had to revisit Rain World because finally everything made sense!!
Perhaps that's why Saint ascends the void worm? For the other slugcats, the void worm drags them deeper into the void sea and allows them to complete their ascension, so Saint refusing to be dragged in could be their way of rejecting ascension so they can instead return to the mortal realm.
The part where you showed what happened to hunter tore my heart apart, amazing video!
well at the very least the "canon" is very ambiguous, especially around most slugcats endings so you can take heart in that. take hunter for example, if you ascend with him he wont appear as a Rot in your gourmand run. He only appears if you fail your hunters run... intrestingly in the same room your hunter run ended.
@@jadefox6167 that's interesting, but what would happen if you ascend whiteout helping moon, that's a failed hunter run or is canon on its own way?
@@lautarotazzioli6618 Moon Will always appear ""Repaired"", Even if You never revive her as Hunter, the Hunter long legs appears only if You fail a Hunter run tho, not if You ascend.
Fail a hunter run in five pebble’s chamber to get revenge for being such an ass. >:)
This game never fails to get me so emotional over the iterators' struggles, not just the slugcat's own adventures. But I think what hurts the most is knowing that Five Pebbles experienced the same pain that the ancients who became echos did, and in his torment he refused to reflect on his own faults and blamed everyone and everything else. Additionally, in regards to the Saint's ending, I believe that the attempt to ascend the void worm and becoming an echo as a result was essentially karma itself punishing the saint for abusing the gift it had been given. Not necessarily that the Saint was consciously attempting to circumvent the cycle out of pride, but for the transgression of denying others the journey to enlightenment themselves. At it's core the solution the ancients and the iterators saw was the antithesis of ascension yet even by chance and the machinations of infinity it can occur.
Some toughts:
The voice acting is incredible
Does this universe have space like ours does? Like can they go other planets or do other planets not even exist? If they do is the void fluid dust thing also happening with them?
I find it quite ironic how the iterators tried to find the solution to the great problem which was a very low chance and they couldnt but lttm had the very low chance of interrupting 5p in a very crucial moment and was able to, rw is just a ton of things going wrong a lot of the time
Also i dont think we need canon endings for some slugcats, ill post on the discord an image that represents it
1: I don't actually know and that's a good question. Perhaps there's an answer in some of the graffiti scattered around. Rockets or something. Maybe worth looking into?
2. I think it does an amazing job of creating that "right place at the right time" feeling. I can't think of many other games I've played that do that so well (Souls Series, notably Sekiro!)
3. I think that's fair. What happens to them isn't always entirely relevant since the bulk of the story is about the Iterators.
Spoiler break.
One of the Echos talk about space.
I agree! I love the fact that it was the precise moment that five pebbles didn't need to be interrupted yet lttm screwed the timing up lol
1: these is a moon in the sky (implying more celestial bodies)
2: Moon interrupted Pebbles not while he was trying to find the solution, but rather while he was trying to cross himself out. And this wasn't really a coincidence, but rather the natural result of Pebbles attempting something so dangerous while sharing the same groundwater as Moon.
@@Ibeachu100 which echo is it?
It'd be super cool if you, your wife and some other people all Voice Acted Rain World and turned it into a mod, you guys' voices fit so well with the characters!
My perspective is that Saint is a Bodhisattva, the beings that put off their ascension to help others ascend. He needs to achieve max karma to gift others with max karma, an instantaneous release from the Cycles, as an Echo does, living out the dream of rejecting its own ascension that we start Saint run by seeing. Unlike Echoes, which indefinitely adhere to a location, unable to move on for any number of reasons, they all have one thing in common. They were, in some small way, decisions to hold onto something. Saint holds onto the dream, the goal of all things ascending. This held desire is the goal of the Bodhisattva.
Also, when Saint interacts with the Void Worms at the top of Rubicon, he isn't approaching Ascension and being rejected. He's approaching reality from the other side, in a dream like the dreams we see at the end of every other slugcat's campaign. Saint falls into the Void Sea, falling and falling, not swimming, but the screen eventually goes blank and then suddenly we see Saint in the threshold between. The threshold has many barriers trying to keep entities from traversing, and I theorize these are like the guardians to the Garden of Eden. If the goal of the Cycle is to keep mortals mortal, then the goal of the guardians is to keep the immortals immortal. Or it would be if guardians and the beings in Rubicon couldn't be ascended with Saint's powers. While the mechanical Guardians, not merely the other denizens of Rubicon, are resilient and take multiple hits to ascend, they can be ascended, indicating they have some sort of purposeful resilience to ascension, presumably as a part of their function. They trap Saint in the room they are in, but allow other creatures to appear or leave freely. However, once Saint gets past them all, Saint ends up... swimming through Void Fluid, which they didn't do when they ended up in Rubicon originally.
One thing I always felt needed to be pointed out is that the Void Worms have the same shapes and numbers of appendages as the Echoes. Slender, long protrusions leading to antennae-like tendrils, a pair of more generic tendrils. Saint acquires them after hitting the Void Worm with an Ascension, as if the Void Worm initiated them. The Void Worms also decide whether or not to drag the slugcats down to the depths of the Void Sea. Can it not be true that they also send the Echoes back, as they fail to pass the Rubicon test? That sending them back, sending Saint back, somehow makes them a little more like the Void Worms? And the fact that we don't see any Void Worms in Saint's run until Saint is on the Other Side seems to imply they can either switch sides... or the Void Sea dissolved them over the extreme timeframes between the others' and Saint's campaigns. Perhaps if it is the former, they sent Saint back. But, rather than becoming a true echo, Saint rejected the ascension in their post-ascension dream, having succeeded in their own natural ascension, leaving their dream self to suddenly be rewound in time and injected back into their physical body, further back in their cycle. We see this as a green slugcat glow just prior to the very end, with a flash, as their mind turns into an Echo, but their real body is not. This is their Cycle.
TL;DR Saint ascended, but rejected ascension to ascend others. This made Saint have to return from the Other Side, back in an older part of their own Cycle.
When voice acting 5 pebbles you have an amazing way of portraying the bitterness and hatred in him, even when he's not angry or lashing out I can still hear a deep sense of malice and defeat in the iterators voice, you voice pebbles how harlan Ellison voices A.M, it's amazing
Watching this video is like reading an incredible dystopian philosophical science fiction novel where in the end it leaves a permanent mark. Thanks for making this! Amazing work.
Heads up that Rain world is on sale for 55% off, and Downpour 15% off, until the 23rd for the Steam Spring Sale!
GS is a she/her lol (and in my headcanon, very gay)
@@minnarew See I wasn't too sure who GS and HR were, but they're anonymous and they're in very similar colors to SRS and NSH so I just went with those voices.
Are they ever mentioned elsewhere and I missed it?
please tell me you got my other reply
@@minnarew I'm not seeing it!
@@SolemnSunday GIMME YOUR OTHER SOCIALS SO I CAN SEND THE COMMENT BECAUSE RUclips NOT WORK
I’ve been wondering where my mental voice for moon came from for a while now, and randomly decided to rewatch this video today. I was… not expecting to get my answer immediately upon doing so lmao
Also the zoom in on “land fish” absolutely ended me, and the high detail render when Pebbles basically describes Rivulet as “no thoughts head empty” had me borderline crying it was so funny. The wet mouse truly is a being
I'll never get tired of reading this. It means a lot that so many people love the voice acting from my wife and I!
This is a phenomenal summary of the affairs of passing gods. The usage of only Rain World tracks for background music was a great idea! They were implemented in well and it shows even more of Rain World. I noticed lore being left out, still leaving things for players to discover. Although it is over an hour long, if you're someone reading this comment before watching the video, I highly recommend you watch the entire video. It *will* be worth your time.
Yeah I intentional left out a lot of passing details about the world that would be fun to discover (example, the memory crypts and Miros bird origin!) I also tried to show pretty areas without too much of a connecting path, so people can play and find the areas themselves. Really glad this didn't go unnoticed!
@@SolemnSunday Good job at giving the new people a chance to play the game while also peaking their interests. If I didn't know what Rain World was, I definitely would have stopped then and played before watching the rest of it!
I absolutely adore this video, it is a beautiful love letter to rain world. This game inspires such powerful emotions, and I think you were able to perfectly capture the game's tone here. The voice actors were incredible as well, especially moon and four needles under plentiful leaves.
Thanks a lot! Four Needles was my buddy. He'd been keeping up with the project and last minute I was like "Hey, you want to voice a short paragraph for this?"
It's a funny story. He misread the line and said "My name was Snug", and when I noticed I had to overdub it, which is why it sounds like he sings "sung", since my voice is so much higher!
Land fish
Wet mouse
Gill rabbit
Water weasel
Damp rat
I always thought 5 Pebbles would sound less... scratchy, gravelly, deep? Listening to him speed ancient gives the impression he has a higher voice, like Moon, but a bit deeper.
But, that is merely my opinion, and it works well enough
Yeah, that's the unfortunate consequence of committing to a voice, for sure.
@@SolemnSunday yeah, for characters without an agreed upon voice, canon or fanon, no matter what you pick for voice acting, you are gonna get complaints that you did their voice wrong.
Dare I say it's an... Unfortunate Development?
I always gave him 343's Guilty Spark's voice. It kinda fits.
@@cameronmckillop6448 343?
after explaining the lore to a friend of mine i came to an realization, correct me in anything if i'm wrong, but i believe that the iterators might have found the solution. during rivulet's campaign we can see that the other iterators in the background above the clouds are fine, but suddenly in the next campaign, they have all collapsed as we can't see any of them anymore, i used to think that this was because a lot of time had passed between saint's and riv's campaign but if so much time had passed i think that there would be much more signs of structural degradation all over the map, so i came up with the theory that the other iterators found the triple affirmative, ascended and collapsed all roughly at the same time, explaining how all of them are gone in saint's campaign, but since communication is impossible to pebbles and moon due to structural damage, they were never been sent the signal or made aware that the solution had been found, then i started thinking about suns and nsh, would they simply abandon pebbles and moon? if not how could they help? the only way for them to communicate with pebbles and moon is through a slugcat and even so how would moon or pebbles set the solution in action with how much little they can do in their state? then i realized, the saint, maybe suns and nsh did send a slugcat to help moon and pebbles, one that would not give them the information on how to do it but simply ascend them directly, that would explain why and how the saint exists and why and how he ended up there, he was sent by suns and nsh specifically to ascend moon and pebbles, this theory might have somethings wrong but it sounds very plausible as the devs confirmed that challenge 70 is not cannon
Would explain how The Saint got ascension powers and used him as a gun to Oof themselves since iterators can't do it to themselves directly
Holy shit I just found the perfect video ever regarding Rain World and it's lore- This is so wonderfully made, every single part of it, so obviously made by someone who cares deeply for this game and it's world. Thank you for this video, it's a work of art that I'll likely end up rewatching many times over.
Really nice lore video, thanks!
I would like to write down a little clarification, still, just for funsies.
So I'm warning you for SPOILERS.
Sorry in advance for my english, it's not my mother language.
Here we go.
Rubicon is an inherited word from Italian. It doesn't really have a meaning. It's a name of an Italian river: Rubicone.
That river is important for an old story that goes back to the Roman Empire and Julius Caesar.
The short version is: Once, the Roman Empire forbade Julius Caesar to cross the Roman borders with an army, because the Roman politicians wanted him dead.
Julius Caesar didn't accepted that and crossed the river Rubicone with an entire army. With that feat he later became the Emperor of the Roman Empire.
Notable is the fact that, before crossing the river, he waited a little, thinking. Only then he crossed it, uttering the word "Alea iacta est" (the die is cast).
I find this legend particularly similar to the final moments of the Saint: he refuses to kneel to a "state of things" and, by doing so, he became the most powerful being, by crossing a river and defeating its guardians.
For anyone who is interested, the entire legend can be read here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Rubicon
YES, I love language responses. Thank you for this, it's very helpful!
God I would want to see a dubbing mod made by so much. I think i watched this video like 15 times yet it never stops to amaze me how well your voices fit all of the characters.
Yeah, it's still something I'd like to do it's just really unlikely because I'd have to rerecord everything, and then record everything we didn't already record. Then I'd also have to find someone who knows what to do with that audio!
belelele
Rivulet actually contains a pearl in it's belly that outlines the schematics for an iterator structure, and also highlights the location of the rarefaction cell. So it's entirely possible that rivulet could find the rarefaction cell before meeting pebbles.
Yeah, that's been discussed several times in the comments and I reckon it's about a 50/50 either way.
Great video, man! I've never seen a Rain World lore video with this level of detail and care put into it. There's so much stuff that I now get thanks to you. I'll be on the watch for your future projects.
Thanks so much! I'm not sure what's coming next, but I love doing lore dives on games like this so if you have something in mind you're always welcome to drop by the Discord and suggest!
Not sure if anyone else still comes back to this video, but I use this as background noise to study to. Its soothing in a weird way considering the story that takes place but the music and dialogue help me focus.
I was brought here because of dazgames, another rain world creator.
The presentation was great, especially the voices you gave.
Him sharing my video was very kind and I can't ever possibly thank him enough.
Calling Saint's loop a curse is repeating the mistake of the ancients of thinking the cycle is something needed to be escaped from in the first place
Fair point, actually.
I was actually playing rainworld when i was watching this, and the part where Moon says "Thousands of us" made me notice something. I was at the wall at the time, and i actually looked into the distance above the sea of clouds.
In the game, we only hear about 4 of the iterators, but i never realized that there were really thousands of them. Wonder what they are like...
The amount of work and effort you`ve put into this is astounding. The voice acting for the iterators and sound distortions are great, and I love that you`ve structured the story chronologically, it makes it much easier to follow, and it`s very satisfying to see their inner turmoils progressing with time. Thank you very much for doing this, absolutely my favourite RW lore video.
i don't normally comment on videos, but this is seriously a great video. I know more than the average person about rain world and it's a game thats near and dear to my heart, but man, this is high quality stuff. Definitely going to share with friends to try and get them into rainworld.
I got this video in my recommendations a couple of months ago having no idea what Rain World is, and now I'm a new fan. Thanks so much for introducing me to such a gem of a game!
I love the phrase "passing gods" as used by 5P (I'm pretty sure it was 5P). They are passing, yet stationary-- passing, as in, dying-- and they are
That was an awesome video!
I was waiting for an exploration of the lore of Rain World in a style like this.
I greatly enjoyed it
I've listened to this video multiple times at work and it's only today that I realize that the voice acting is not in the game, and is entirely this video. Absolutely beautiful work to whoever did the voices, genuinely disappointed I can't hear more lines from the characters in this way when I finally play through rainworld.
My wife and I are actually the two main voices! The only other one you hear is my buddy doing an echo near the end!
@@SolemnSunday I would literally pay money in US dollars to purchase a mod which contained your voices for the speaking characters.
@@SolemnSundaylove your and your wife’s voice acting for this, you both captured the mood and chemistry of the characters perfectly ❤ love rewatching this video
it's theorized that the hunter's disease was some of NSH's microbes, and by hunter ascending, NSH was ascended by proxy, avoiding the taboo and it explains why we see NSH in hunter's ascension ending
I want you to know that I watched this video from start to finish without pause and was sad when it ended. This is incredible storytelling, congratulations
fantastic voice acting, cinematography, and wonderful organization of the lore in a digestible manner. kudos to everyone who worked on this immense project!! stuff like this really fuels my creativity
Thanks! It was just my wife and I. A buddy did the one echo voice near the end. Also of course the wonderful art from the artists but it wasn't made for this video!
i know nothing about rainworld but their cool ai engine, i watched the whole thing in one sitting and then sat there for some time just existing. what a great game. what a great story. i love pebbles and i love moon and i love all the slugcats and i love you for making this video, it was very easy to follow and extremely fun to watch
Your conclusion even though as you said there may be no ovearching theme still managed to make me cry. When you started listing the smaller thenes that can be observed, it finally dawned on me that I can relate to a lot of them and the feels got me
30:28 i'm dying at how Spearmaster is just standing there with the pearl in its hand looking at Moon like "uh lady you ok?"
While the specific events are not cannon, the implications of arena challenge 70 are quite clear, the saint was likely created by SoS and is the triple affirmative, represented by the 3 dots on it's forehead. Like 5P and LttM say after they've been ascended, the solution was not possible to find as it was past a point of no return, even if any being found it, by nature said being would be unable to communicate it. SoS realized this and created a being that could come back from the point of no return and bring knowledge of the solution with it. That's what the opening cutscene of the campaign was, the Saint returning with the knowledge of the solution, that event likely happened long before the start of the playable campaign as just a memory Saint was recalling at that moment.
The reason SoS broadcasted the triple affirmative but didn't communicate the Saint's existence was likely because they had only confirmed the triple affirmative at the very moment that the Saint acted on it's purposed design and started to ascend them, possibly even unwillingly. SoS just didn't have the time to convey any more information to the other iterators.
The reason the Saint showed up so late in the timeline was because it was presumably ascending every other sentient being in the world as it was designed to do. I personally believe that 5P and LttM were the last two sentient beings in existence that the saint had to ascend, after which the Saint tried to ascend themselves, but their special ability became a curse, as like 5P mentioned after being ascended, he could not see an end or beginning to the Saint's tale, remarking on what a horrifying destiny they have found. The Saint was only able to release the iterators by being doomed to never be able to escape the cycle.
Really well thought out theory)write up. I didn't want to go into the Sliver of Straw challenge as I had heard the developers states it wasn't canon, and it's been unclear to me in what capacity it isn't. Fully? Just the silly gamey part? So I just avoided it in full. I probably could have addressed it though, in hindsight.
Also, I say the Saint only ascended sentient beings as they are the only ones truly aware of the cycle and suffering because of it. It was specifically designed to end that suffering, but non-sentient beings, even if they had an innate awareness of the cycle, did not fully comprehend it and therefore did not experience that same suffering. That and the fact to get what I consider to be the cannon ending only requires ascending 5P and LttM and and does not require ascending all other beings on the map. Although that may have just been done for the sake of gameplay and in the true cannon the Saint ascended all living things before attempting to ascend themselves.
@@benjfinity No, no, I think you're actually onto something. This was my biggest hang-up with the theory that Saint had to "ascend everything"!
Also also, the saint tried to ascend the void worm in an attempt to get it to stop it from preventing their own ascension, as we can see in the Artificer ascension sequence (and to some degree all other ascension endings), the void worm(s?) may play at least some part in whether a successful ascension is preformed, appearing to guide successful ascensions.
@nibsthefroggirl8205 was interested in this perspective, hopefully this tags them.
The algorithm started recommending me Rain World stuff about a week ago, and I've poured through everything since. This video was perfectly timed, and very well done. I hope it blows up
Custom theory of mine is that Saint is that "triple afirmative". Being able to "Ascend" everything. Its winter by the time we play as it, cause he was "made" in a far away land, reaching late to the game map. but idk
Love to see such a high quality rain world video coming out! I just adore the game and seeing something like this makes me happy there are other folks who might love it even more than I do.
I remember watching someone play through the base game (because the games too hard for me to get through any of it lol) and thinking that story/lore was more about the ancients and their society and the cycles and how to break free. In a way it is about those things but obviously I see now that it was about the iterators. It really makes me sad to think about their story, how the Ancients built them and effectively abandoned them, made them with such little thought or little care for them. Idk it's just really tragic. I hope Moon and Pebbles and everyone else are happy in the Rubicon or wherever else. I can't help but be a little relieved that they are together there, at the end of it all.
There's a lot of information about the Ancients and their struggles and history that I didn't go into, actually! It wasn't really relevant to the part of the story I wanted to tell and would bog things down. Plus I wanted stuff for new players to find because it's inevitable someone will watch this and *then* buy the game, even if it's only one person.
The story makes me pretty sad too, and I'm really glad we get to see them together. That's a bigger deal than I think it appears at first. Like meeting your close internet friend for the first time.
@@SolemnSunday Hi! One person here, bought the game after watching the video. I did not expect the game to be this *difficult* but im having fun!
@@LostSwiftpaw Glad you're enjoying it! That's one of the reasons I think this video has done so well; the game's just *really* hard. It got a lot of bad press on release for that if I recall, but it has somewhat of a cult following now.
This is a very late response, but I actually don't think the Slugcats aren't for cleaning pipes, I think they're purposed as messengers, since that's how a lot are used it seems.
Scavengers however could be cleaners, as they have a tendency at collecting objects laying on the ground and have a high capacity of holding items.
Yeah, I had a big discussion with a dude rather early on about that and we decided that bit of lore was likely unrelated to their overall creation.
50:20 bro got to 5P in 1 cycle
I was wondering if someone would catch something like that. I had to record so much footage that I used warping. Surprised it took 5 days for someone to see though!
The voice acting in the video is the best...
(and now we need Rain World Vocalized mod)
A thing I think is worth pointing out, is the Saint challenge minigame where you challenge another Iterator and avoid its attacks while repeatedly hitting it with your "Ascension gun".
While I myself don't know for sure, I have heard people say and claim that this Iterator, which is unlike any other we see, is actually Sliver of Straw herself. and this Bullet-Hell minigame is a test that She employs the Saint to complete and prove it can survive out in the world, which ends, of course, in her Ascension and subsequent Death.
The idea is that The Saint *is* The triple affirmative. But Straw's own Death prevented her from telling them what exactly the solution was, only that one existed, leaving the Saint to wander the earth alone, traveling through the regions and eventually coming across the grounds of Five Pebbles & Looks to the moon, long after everything else has happened as a result of her passing, such as the Rot Incident and collapse of moon and later Pebbles.
The Saint is what lets them go past the point of no return. at least until their own Cycle begins anew, as they all do. it passes its elightenment onto them when they enter the rubicon, and for a moment, they realise that their problem was never going to be solved otherwise. not without ascension by the saint.
The Saint was created to grant Ascension to beings that otherwise cannot Ascend themselves, or have no desire to. from the many creatures still scurrying around the facility grounds, to the passing Gods themselves, the Iterators, who's own Self Destruction Taboos prevented them from moving on.
I think it's easy enough to deduce that this little green Creature, one who reaches enlightenment and passes it onto others, is closely if not directly inspired by *The Buddha* Himself.
The Saviour of the world trapped in a cycle of Birth, life, Death, and Rebirth. One who would lead the world into Nirvana, into an eternal peace beyond life. The saint is its own version of The Buddha, stuck on its *own* Cycle, trapped as it reaches enlightenment while passing it down to others until perhaps, one day, its work may be done. but from what we see in its campaign, Its work is *far* from done. Even as it breaks others from *their* Cycles, it persists within its *own.* And that is its Terrifying Fate.
So that is Sliver of Straw but it's confirmed non-canon. I like your interpretation too.
@@SolemnSunday Ahh, Fair enough. I imagine Saint might still have been what Ascended/Killed her, but the whole bullet hell minigame prolly didn't happen leading up to it.
@@krysmun Unfortunately, I was thinking the same thing but the dev who commented on it on the Discord specifically said "Sliver of Straw was long dead when Saint was born"...
Now if we go with reincarnation theories, the Saint being reincarnated in different ways each time, I can get behind that. There's still plenty of ways it works out, in my opinion.
@@SolemnSunday ohh. I see now. ah well. was an interesting Idea I'd heard though. but Understandable. It just makes you wonder what Sliver's own method actually was now. would we ever know what her original Triple Affirmative was? who knows.
i have my own theory/head cannon on saint, perhaps Sliver Of Straw created the Saint, and gave Saint 3 objectives. 1: Accend Sliver of Straw. 2: if it was succesfull, sent out the triple affermative broadcast and 3: Accend all Itterators.
You're forgetting 1 glaring problem:
Sliver of Straws ascended/died very long ago in the past before any slugcats campaigns, before 5P got rot, before moon collapsed.
@@1God1FuryThat could be why the world is freezing over in saint's campaign. Its been a long time and saint has already ascended all the other iterators, leaving the planet frozen because the only active ones left are also in complete disrepair.
@@BillThePillCosby Then other Iterators would have noticed or received another triple affirmative through communication or through slugcats sending pearls.
I doubt Seven Red Suns and No Significant Harassment would simply leave 5 pebbles and The Moon slowly decay if they had important info to share with that could help them.
This video is amazing! thank you so much for putting in the work to do something like this. I've just finished my first campaign a few days ago (which btw I did while watching your old videos, this game can be very confusing at times xD) , and tbh I didn't understand a single thing story wise, so this just saved my life
id love to just say that i watched this video before playing rainworld and was immediately captivated. i decided to buy the game, and try it out, mostly so i could show my family just how amazing it is. the world building is impeccable.
i now own it on switch (first version i bought) and on computer (downpour on pc as well. easier to play bc of mods and dev controls)
id love to thank you for making this video as this specific video got me into, what i can now say is, one of my all time favorite games.
i will 100% be watching this with my family once i complete the game for them.
i love love love this video 💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜
(edited for spelling)
This is one of the reasons I wanted to make the video. I'm glad you were able to experience the game because of it!
My interpretation of Saint's story is that, regardless of his beginnings or his origins, his ultimate purpose lies in the ascension of all other creatures but itself.
Its job isn't complete until it guides every creature to ascension- *every* creature. Including the void worm.
When the Saint tries to ascend the void worm, the void worm rejects the ascension (much like how the Guardians take three ascension attempts before theyre successful) and sends the Saint back to its beginning, as a way of saying, "your job here isn't done yet."
Only once the Saint has successfully ascended every other creature will it be successful in its attempts to ascend the Void Worm.
From there, maybe the Saint can finally achieve its own ascension, no longer bound to the cycle by an unfulfilled purpose. Or perhaps the saint remains within the cycle, with only the company of the Echoes left to inhabit the world.
I have watched this like ten times and it's now my comfort Video when I'm anxious. Thank you very much
This was absolutely wonderful! I can tell how much work you put into it. I really hope this gets more attention, it absolutely deserves it.
Absolutely in love with this video and the work put into it. I've been obsessed with Rain World ever since the game came out, even before the first balancing patch that changed it so u didn't lose all your mental map progress youd made during a cycle upon death, and the game means so much to me. I was one of the head admins of the Rain World Amino for like 2 years (when i was like 12 lol) and i met many of my best friends still in the Rain World community. The Downpour DLC made me ecstatic for new Rain World content, and i thoroughly enjoyed playing all the new campaigns almost entirely blind. I love this game, I truly do. Thank you for making this massive video gathering the (otherwise very scattered) story of the game together.
On another more specific note, I was surprised you didn't mention or bring up Challenge 60, since it brings light to some of the Saints past and the final fate of Sliver of Straw! I was waiting for you to mention it, but I do also understand that it is impossible to get every little bit, and I do suppose that maybe it could be argued that Challenge 60 isn't 100% guaranteed to be canon since the other challenges certainly don't seem to be?
Either way, fantastic video, keep up the great work!
*I meant challenge 70 😭 Damn, im a fake fan
I find watching Pebbles downfall just so depressing
Man, same. I really sympathize with the character.
There aren't many games or medias in general that make me cry. Not because I'm tough or anything, just that it takes a lot of emotion. I feel attached, sad, that bittersweet release, or whatever. But a lot of times thats all. SOMA made me cry, and silly rain game did too. Both fairly consistently, watching friends play still hit hard. Rain world did so much with so little. Downpour did not fail to deliver. There is so much emotion in this game. So much pain, tragedy, triumph that still just isn't enough... All you can do is try to make things hurt less.
The game is hard. Too hard for many. It makes it very rewarding to get better at, but it also makes the silent story telling hit so hard. When you ascend the first time as survivor, the feeling is hard to describe. Because its not just an ending, not just a triumph for the survivor. From the very beginning you were just as lost as they were. You died, stuck in the cycle. You learned, struggled, made it through difficult or frustrating situations, because there was no other way. And there you are, you've made it. You've finally found that release. You've finally escaped the cycle. And yet, is that what you really wanted? There's no going back. You have so many different feelings and having been forced to struggle through the survivors pain the whole way means what you are feeling is not for a character, you are feeling it for yourself.
The other endings, things like moon reaching out to pebbles, are just heartwarming and heartbreaking. Knowing that you've triumphed, that you've defied logic and given such a huge gift to random gods. And yet, the best they have is struggling to remember things trapped in broken boxes barely able to talk to each other, let alone anything or anyone else. Destroyed broken bodies barely alive, pebbles stuck in the misery of hours and days and months listening to a short hymn remembering when he had people, when he was whole, unbroken. When he had purpose.
Its a feeling i dont think a media besides a game could capture well, because you did it yourself. You didn't watch, you struggled and you succeeded. And you have to let that brief moment of 'i won!' sink down into reality and wonder where that leaves you.
Rain world plays like nothing ive seen, has an ecosystem and world that i havent seen reproduced, and it has a story that takes so little, and cements itself into your being. It has existential level problems that you are stuck thinking about forever.
Its funny, silly slugcat rain game where you run from lizards, hits my heart harder than almost anything else out there. Incredible. Its absolutely either my favorite or one of my favorite games of all time, and one of my favorite stories of all time. Like i mentioned, SOMA is another. Those two games are things i think about at least once a month, they will never leave me. What they showed me was too important to forget. Its a special thing when a story can become a part of you and shape how you interpret future problems.
This was an amazing run through, not just an analysis but a borderline movie. It doesn't just explain, it shows. Its probably the closest thing I've seen to letting you experience the power of the story without just playing it. Of course its impossible to capture all the magic, saint in particular is such an absolute wild ride of emotions that i dont think can be gotten without living his cycles. But this was very well made. I'm obsessed with reviews, theories, and explorations of rain world haha. I've been watching basically every video essay or review or whatever since well before downpour. I can't get enough of this story. And this is one of the best explorations I've ever seen.
pretty cool summary of the story :D
great job on va too, even if some voices are different from what i personally imagine, the delivery and the effects are really cool
What a beautiful game, what a beautiful STORY, this video ALMOST made me cry at the end there, especially the ending part with the animation, I actually watched a video before this one that had a different interpretation of the ending of the Saint's campaign, about how it was the only being able to pass the line of no return, but be able to come back afterwards.
All around though, amazing video, I'm glad I watched it all the way through.
gosh i love watching videos of people explaining the lore of my favourite games this is awesome
I never played the game, but the voice acting was so well done that I only realized by reading the comments that they are not original. So well, and great video too!
" L A N D F I S H "
W E T M O U S E
A lore video so good that I watched it out of curiosity, listened to the whole thing because of the sterling production values, and which got me into the game itself (a full five slugcats, seven runs, and seventy-five hours in). Absolutely brilliant.
I recall someone said that the Saint dream at the start was a dream of something it wanted or remembered, like other echos being bound to the spot they remember, but the fact Saint remembered/dreamt of max karma didn't allow it to become an Echo
I am honored to be in the credits keep it up.
Hey it's me from Reddit amazing video I can't watch the full video because I haven't beat the game yet but just looking at it I can tell it's a really high quality video keep up the good work man 👍
No worries! I broke it into chapters so you can easily find your place again!
Thanks again for watching!
I like how the game gives us all the information and there are people who just play the game and never even know and never will know the gigantic and deep story that this game has. I love rainworld man
Finding myself crying. This feels like an alive world, where I am helpless to help those who I wish I could save.