I like how Brahms refrains from writing stuff that is undiomatic in the piano writing and would not fit with the rest of the movement. Sure he does his own harmonic language, but in terms of technique he does not do more than Beethoven would have done. When you compare Alkan's cadenzas to Mozart's 20th Concerto you see the clear difference. Alkan uses his own technique and goes way above anything that Mozart could even have played on a piano.
So I guess that's Brahms playing the piano part and Beethoven playing the orchestral score in piano form. I didn't know they had recording this good back then.
@@tarikeld11 That's nothing. I was three days old when I first played this cadenza faultlessly. And the next day I composed my own superior cadenza. Though Beethoven's own cadenza is still the best by a country mile.
It is a computer mock up, my attempt is to show what each of the cadenzas sounds like, since there aren't many recordings them, so that if people find an interest in all of these different cadenzas / would want to play them, they can get a basic sense of how they're supposed to sound. Of course this specific cadenza has a wonderful performance by Idil Beret, and everyone is welcome to listen to her playing of it :)
In meiner Wahrnehmung schön komponiert, aber etwas stilbrüchig. Ich kann mir nicht vorstellen, dass Beethoven selber eine Kadenz dieser Art gespielt hätte, aber vermutlich galten für spätromantische Komponisten nicht unsere heutigen Maßstäbe der historischen Aufführungspraxis.
As for candenze, is it an unwritten rule that all major motifs used in the candenza should be from the previous sections of the current movement? A quote of the Bach motif here is neutral and only arouses awe; quoting non-classical popular music is occational acceptable to me; but it would be another story if the pianist suddenly quotes a national anthem, or any melody with strong connection to political movements. Also a candenza cannot spoil important, especially unexpected climax moments in the uncoming movements or following works to be played at the same concert, I guess.
I don't know of any specific rules, in general from what I've seen there are many different opinions about what a cadenza should be. I'm just uploading the ones I'm finding regardless of their content, and whoever watches is welcome to share their opinions about the composition :) (In this case I personally find the Bach motif to be really cool, making the cadenza have elements of Bach Beethoven and Brahms, the 3 B's in one place)
Wow, this cadenza is really bad. I mean: REALLY. Almost Wilhelm Kempff atrocity level. Super disappointing from a genius like Brahms. I wish I hadn't heard this (the midi piano doesn't help either). Gotto clean my ears with Beethovens own cadenza played by Brendel now.
This is Brahms? If I hadn't been told, I wouldn't have known. It is unbelievable bad. Structurally it's off, and the midi performance does it no favours. However thanks for posting this, it's good to see what one of the great composers was like on an off day.
Brahms LOVED midi piano:)
Brahms quoting the BACH motif in his cadenza to a Beethoven work...that means all the three Bs come together in one piece.
"Two of them wrote symphonies
And one wrote Psalms.
That's Bach, Beethoven,
And Herr Johannes Brahms!"
I like how Brahms refrains from writing stuff that is undiomatic in the piano writing and would not fit with the rest of the movement. Sure he does his own harmonic language, but in terms of technique he does not do more than Beethoven would have done. When you compare Alkan's cadenzas to Mozart's 20th Concerto you see the clear difference. Alkan uses his own technique and goes way above anything that Mozart could even have played on a piano.
So I guess that's Brahms playing the piano part and Beethoven playing the orchestral score in piano form. I didn't know they had recording this good back then.
Bach quote was cursed af
Makes my belief more solid that the C-B-D-C# in the coda of his 4th symphony is no coincidence
so true
This would be really kind of controversial to play given the perfection of Beethoven’s own cadenza.
I'd argue it should be more controversial not to play an original cadenza :P
Wow, Brahms did? 🎉🎉
Idil Biret recorded it on a Bosendorfer
I heard it! Her interpretation helped me, a few things in my video are inspired by how she played the cadenza.
@@thelonesomepianist She.
Oh,das höre ich auch gern, Dankeschön 😊
4:02 that double trill in sixth OMG impossible to play
ah yes, this old chestnut
i remember playing this when i was 3 months old without having seen the music or hearing it
3 Month? I was not even 3 weeks old.
@@tarikeld11 That's nothing. I was three days old when I first played this cadenza faultlessly. And the next day I composed my own superior cadenza. Though Beethoven's own cadenza is still the best by a country mile.
@@williambunter3311 next guy wasn't even born when he played this 😂
@@tarikeld11 Yes, I know. That was my nephew.
Is this a 'computer mock-up'? The timing is weird and unmusical, and the voicing is practically non-existent. Very odd.
very perceptive
It is a computer mock up, my attempt is to show what each of the cadenzas sounds like, since there aren't many recordings them, so that if people find an interest in all of these different cadenzas / would want to play them, they can get a basic sense of how they're supposed to sound.
Of course this specific cadenza has a wonderful performance by Idil Beret, and everyone is welcome to listen to her playing of it :)
Quite good to be Musescore actually
The incredible musicality of Brahms. An unappreciated genius.
1:32 this is Star Wars or what?
It seems more like an excerpt from a Brahms piano sonata, not a cadenza.
In meiner Wahrnehmung schön komponiert, aber etwas stilbrüchig. Ich kann mir nicht vorstellen, dass Beethoven selber eine Kadenz dieser Art gespielt hätte, aber vermutlich galten für spätromantische Komponisten nicht unsere heutigen Maßstäbe der historischen Aufführungspraxis.
As for candenze, is it an unwritten rule that all major motifs used in the candenza should be from the previous sections of the current movement?
A quote of the Bach motif here is neutral and only arouses awe; quoting non-classical popular music is occational acceptable to me; but it would be another story if the pianist suddenly quotes a national anthem, or any melody with strong connection to political movements.
Also a candenza cannot spoil important, especially unexpected climax moments in the uncoming movements or following works to be played at the same concert, I guess.
I don't know of any specific rules, in general from what I've seen there are many different opinions about what a cadenza should be. I'm just uploading the ones I'm finding regardless of their content, and whoever watches is welcome to share their opinions about the composition :)
(In this case I personally find the Bach motif to be really cool, making the cadenza have elements of Bach Beethoven and Brahms, the 3 B's in one place)
@@zhihuangxu6551 i quote amogus in my cadenza
This cadenza is WAY better than Godowsky's!
The most ugly cadenza surely written for this concerto…just god awful. Did Brahms really compose this trash???
Maybe it's the AI piano?😅
What instrument is that, ugly
Wow, this cadenza is really bad. I mean: REALLY. Almost Wilhelm Kempff atrocity level. Super disappointing from a genius like Brahms.
I wish I hadn't heard this (the midi piano doesn't help either). Gotto clean my ears with Beethovens own cadenza played by Brendel now.
love it
Every pianist prioritising perfection should hear this😅
Wilhelm Kempff atrocity? Wdym?
@@epicaunleashed8764 If you had ever heard Kempff's cadenzas, you'd know what I mean... 😉
This is Brahms? If I hadn't been told, I wouldn't have known. It is unbelievable bad. Structurally it's off, and the midi performance does it no favours. However thanks for posting this, it's good to see what one of the great composers was like on an off day.