Point of fact. FSG didn’t try to bump up ticket prices to £77. That is too basic a take. They actually looked at restructuring the ticket prices to make the very highest tier more expensive, pushing the rise onto the category of supporter who can bear that rise the most. Tickets were not going to be £77. The protest and walk achieved the noble outcome of scrapping the £77 price for the most expensive ticket, but making all tickets a bit more expensive for everyone. The problem with calling for fan engagement and consultation is that fans fly off the handle and act with hysteria rather than considering what is actually going on.
It wasn’t a Microsoft paint job, it was 115 page document which would have took months to prepare. They knew some sort of backlash would happen,otherwise why keep it so covert?
It wasn't kept quiet ... why lie ? It was public knowledge and planned for years. Not like updates and fifa habe clean records for corruption. Why does the f.a hold so much money ... what do they provide for there cut ? Choice is never a bad thing. Fans have turned in uefa and fa mouth pieces parroting sky news commentary pundits who care about their pay check above football.
I'm furious with FSG. At the same time, I was naive to think they wouldn't dance with this idea or similar ones to globalize the club further. Josh puts up a good arguement and I very much agree with him. And so does Dave when speaking about the risks of getting new owners. It's a thinker.
They made a mistake but let's not forget that UEFA is also corrupt. Fans complain that FSG doesn't invest enough compared to rivals but complain when they try to finance these investments from other alternatives to debt. The same people will complain if the company takes on debt.
Exactly lets step back abit and analyse.... i know the trend right now is to cancel and out everything.... i was FSG out 2 days ago lol then i thought about it.... we're throwing out the baby with bath water... if they honestly truely made a mistake! FSG was defendable before all this, now theyve made it so difficult to defend them as joshy says... i backed FSG to the hilt before all this..... So I get it!!! BUT getting rid of FSG is abit hasty too lol! FSG before all this was the right fit for Klopp and LFC or so it seemed! If they are seriously willing to apologise and prove to us and Klopp and are GENUINELY sorry then let them have the CHANCE to Prove it.... Gettng rid of FSG will set us back because they HAVE done good before they caught with hand in cookie jar.... Theres noone out there that is perfect an entity that is all about LFC and throwing money at LFC for shits and giggles... so we have to understand that getting american / foreign owners was always going to be abit naughty We should let them WORK their ASS off to prove to us! We NOW HAVE ALL EYES ON THEM, THEY CANT GET AWAY WITH IT AGAIN.... It should be us the fans who decide what to do, so WE the fans should USE FSG
@@antwango people seem to forget how much pain we went through with the previous owners. Nobody's perfect and people should realise that FSG need to make money on their investment. As long as it's not detrimental to the club I'm fine. We should admire the fact that they haven't taken a single penny out the club.
FSG get out and I don't want to hear "be careful what you wish for" they've messed up too many times like a cat with 9 lives, they only apologise because of the fierce backlash each time.
The fact FSG put Klopp top of their managerial list shows they DO have some cultural awareness of what works for Liverpool city. Klopp was not the obvious choice as an owner based on pure #'s ... unless you understand the culture. THEN it becomes obvious. Good point about the appointment of Edward's as GM being a very American approach , and the direction football has headed 8n general.
Your title describes things perfectly. They're definitely a sporting success but lack the morals to make it a complete package. Well balanced discussion. Keep up the great work fellas.
What do people want? Some Mother Theresa type billionaire owner? (They dont exist) The club is debt free, they Redeveloped the Main stand, plans in place for the Annie end, new high class training ground, a Champions League, a Premier League that we all madly craved and maybe most importantly they hired Jurgen. Are people forgetting about Hicks and Gillet completely? FSG aren't perfect, yes it hasn't been their only mistake either and need to be criticised for this 100% but no owner is perfect. Something tells me oil baron owners wouldn't be welcome in Liverpool either.
Exactly, they even sold a 10% stake in lfc. They are yet to take a single penny from the club. Those fans are ignorant, I bet they still believe UEFA are the good guys.
@@manemane5410 If an oil baron came in mate and spent a fortune and we won everything it would feel empty to me. FSG are probably the best of a bad bunch
Great analysis of why we should be careful in what we wish for. Too many are looking for any excuse to pillory FSG though here they have been incredibly stupid.
This whole issue is no more than a continuation of that set in place by the creation of the Premier League. It wasn´t done for the fans, it created huge profits for a few and the fans were conned into believing it was for them: new huge profits were and continue to be made by a few.... TV companies and their advertisers, kit and boot makers, club merchandisers and club owners. This sparked the huge increase in players and managers wages and ticket, kit & boot prices which we accepted because clubs like LFC etc were able to buy better players ans managers and fans thought this was great....but the real story was the huge profits that were made for a few of the mega rich sitting behind all this....it all would not have happened if they didn´t make enormous profits. We still think it was all created for our sakes, the fans. We did get some benefits of course but relative to the huge profits generated by the PL via the global marketing in the background, it was pennies but easy to sell to us, So we accepted increased ticket prices, cost of TV viewing of games, high price kits & boot, so the ´big sell´ to us worked and small numbers have been making fortunes in the background that we know nothing about! So, you could say football was sold to the profit makers in 1992, and they will continually look to make more profit..... which they will need to make look like it is for our benefit, and this time it didn´t work but don´t think it stops here!
Long time LFC fan (40 years), talking about the moral side, I have learned that Fenway group is NOT what they seem to be and they make most of their money from illegal operations such as money laundering. For people like that money is always first motivation and success comes next. When nobody object they keep demoing what they have always done as long as they can get away with it. This time however the fans as a collective stood against it. That proves we have more power than we thought and we can do similar thing to stop other bad actions from bad people.
I know we have gone down the data route heavily at Liverpool but do we still go and watch players and how many times do you think we watch a player in person before we buy them. Or do we just rely on data and videos?
lol you are proving the point!! of this whole big mess lol LFC players are the cheapest lol and you want to get players like Mbappe and Haaland in on cheap as well!!! This is why FSG is looking for alternate ways of funding.... this is what Perez was talking about... Players are getting more expensive! FCs are needing to spend more and more for no good divas and they need funding! Players are not going to take a pay cut and play for LFC if they can get paid 3X as much for city! or yanited.... what rock have you been living under by the way lol... i know lockdown and everything hahaha essentially no one is perfectly in the right or wrong fundamentally football is wrong and broken!
Really, it took this to realise our morals weren't good? Guys I've been preaching this since we sacked New Balance. Please, let us apply the same pressure to amend things with New Balanc3 and get them back. Not this Nike Trash. Please. New Balance cared and loved us through it all and made the best kits for us. As a designer I'm telling you we had it all with them.
@Darth Pepe then I'm afraid you've missed he point of it all. What we've witnessed in regards to our financial moral dilemma the past few days was only the fruit. The roots and seeds of this type of mentality began with things like the sacking of New Balance. Family is our key motivator in this club. New Balance were family. For divinity sake it even recommends.you honour your contracts in the Bible; we became shit because we lost our values. Period't.
@@whoknew2273 and it will be people like you that complain the most when you see the fruits of such decisions. Obviously missing the point completely. Fuck outta here. #bringbacknewbalance
I totally agree. Liverpool have done a deal with the devil under Nike. And look like complete hypocrites taking the knee while wearing Nike. Go woke go broke!
talk sport talk shite lol... its John Barnes nuff said really... John Barnes is our most intelligent footballer, this isnt his first time showing how fierce some and formidable he is with words... he proved this when jumped to Liam Neesoms defence on racism! Jonh Barnes should be LFCs fan rep!!! surprised John Barnes isnt working for LFC higher up in some way... he should be our say no to racism etc
@@asadashraf2128 yes if both people understand the phrase, of course . but if the person you are talking to doesn't understand , you would try to explain it with giving them the whole thing ???
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Point of fact. FSG didn’t try to bump up ticket prices to £77. That is too basic a take. They actually looked at restructuring the ticket prices to make the very highest tier more expensive, pushing the rise onto the category of supporter who can bear that rise the most. Tickets were not going to be £77. The protest and walk achieved the noble outcome of scrapping the £77 price for the most expensive ticket, but making all tickets a bit more expensive for everyone. The problem with calling for fan engagement and consultation is that fans fly off the handle and act with hysteria rather than considering what is actually going on.
It wasn’t a Microsoft paint job, it was 115 page document which would have took months to prepare. They knew some sort of backlash would happen,otherwise why keep it so covert?
It wasn't kept quiet ... why lie ?
It was public knowledge and planned for years.
Not like updates and fifa habe clean records for corruption.
Why does the f.a hold so much money ... what do they provide for there cut ? Choice is never a bad thing.
Fans have turned in uefa and fa mouth pieces parroting sky news commentary pundits who care about their pay check above football.
I'm furious with FSG. At the same time, I was naive to think they wouldn't dance with this idea or similar ones to globalize the club further. Josh puts up a good arguement and I very much agree with him. And so does Dave when speaking about the risks of getting new owners. It's a thinker.
They made a mistake but let's not forget that UEFA is also corrupt. Fans complain that FSG doesn't invest enough compared to rivals but complain when they try to finance these investments from other alternatives to debt. The same people will complain if the company takes on debt.
Exactly lets step back abit and analyse.... i know the trend right now is to cancel and out everything....
i was FSG out 2 days ago lol then i thought about it.... we're throwing out the baby with bath water... if they honestly truely made a mistake!
FSG was defendable before all this, now theyve made it so difficult to defend them as joshy says... i backed FSG to the hilt before all this..... So I get it!!!
BUT getting rid of FSG is abit hasty too lol! FSG before all this was the right fit for Klopp and LFC or so it seemed!
If they are seriously willing to apologise and prove to us and Klopp and are GENUINELY sorry then let them have the CHANCE to Prove it....
Gettng rid of FSG will set us back because they HAVE done good before they caught with hand in cookie jar.... Theres noone out there that is perfect an entity that is all about LFC and throwing money at LFC for shits and giggles... so we have to understand that getting american / foreign owners was always going to be abit naughty
We should let them WORK their ASS off to prove to us! We NOW HAVE ALL EYES ON THEM, THEY CANT GET AWAY WITH IT AGAIN.... It should be us the fans who decide what to do, so WE the fans should USE FSG
@@antwango people seem to forget how much pain we went through with the previous owners. Nobody's perfect and people should realise that FSG need to make money on their investment. As long as it's not detrimental to the club I'm fine. We should admire the fact that they haven't taken a single penny out the club.
FSG get out and I don't want to hear "be careful what you wish for" they've messed up too many times like a cat with 9 lives, they only apologise because of the fierce backlash each time.
The fact FSG put Klopp top of their managerial list shows they DO have some cultural awareness of what works for Liverpool city.
Klopp was not the obvious choice as an owner based on pure #'s ... unless you understand the culture. THEN it becomes obvious.
Good point about the appointment of Edward's as GM being a very American approach , and the direction football has headed 8n general.
Your title describes things perfectly. They're definitely a sporting success but lack the morals to make it a complete package. Well balanced discussion. Keep up the great work fellas.
Morals are subjective.
What do people want? Some Mother Theresa type billionaire owner? (They dont exist) The club is debt free, they Redeveloped the Main stand, plans in place for the Annie end, new high class training ground, a Champions League, a Premier League that we all madly craved and maybe most importantly they hired Jurgen. Are people forgetting about Hicks and Gillet completely? FSG aren't perfect, yes it hasn't been their only mistake either and need to be criticised for this 100% but no owner is perfect. Something tells me oil baron owners wouldn't be welcome in Liverpool either.
Exactly, they even sold a 10% stake in lfc. They are yet to take a single penny from the club. Those fans are ignorant, I bet they still believe UEFA are the good guys.
The greatest con is to condition people to fear the alternative. Thats how you hold on to power.
@@duffers7518 Very conspiratorial thinking there Stephen but not to be ruled out by any means!
@@manemane5410 If an oil baron came in mate and spent a fortune and we won everything it would feel empty to me. FSG are probably the best of a bad bunch
Nob
Great analysis of why we should be careful in what we wish for. Too many are looking for any excuse to pillory FSG though here they have been incredibly stupid.
This whole issue is no more than a continuation of that set in place by the creation of the Premier League. It wasn´t done for the fans, it created huge profits for a few and the fans were conned into believing it was for them: new huge profits were and continue to be made by a few.... TV companies and their advertisers, kit and boot makers, club merchandisers and club owners. This sparked the huge increase in players and managers wages and ticket, kit & boot prices which we accepted because clubs like LFC etc were able to buy better players ans managers and fans thought this was great....but the real story was the huge profits that were made for a few of the mega rich sitting behind all this....it all would not have happened if they didn´t make enormous profits. We still think it was all created for our sakes, the fans. We did get some benefits of course but relative to the huge profits generated by the PL via the global marketing in the background, it was pennies but easy to sell to us, So we accepted increased ticket prices, cost of TV viewing of games, high price kits & boot, so the ´big sell´ to us worked and small numbers have been making fortunes in the background that we know nothing about! So, you could say football was sold to the profit makers in 1992, and they will continually look to make more profit..... which they will need to make look like it is for our benefit, and this time it didn´t work but don´t think it stops here!
Long time LFC fan (40 years), talking about the moral side, I have learned that Fenway group is NOT what they seem to be and they make most of their money from illegal operations such as money laundering. For people like that money is always first motivation and success comes next. When nobody object they keep demoing what they have always done as long as they can get away with it. This time however the fans as a collective stood against it. That proves we have more power than we thought and we can do similar thing to stop other bad actions from bad people.
I know we have gone down the data route heavily at Liverpool but do we still go and watch players and how many times do you think we watch a player in person before we buy them. Or do we just rely on data and videos?
🙏Please bring 🏴Wilson, 🏴Woodburn, 🏴Elliott, & 🇷🇸Grujic into the main team.👍
The Greatest Con Is To Condition People to Fear The Alternative.Thats how you hold on to power
Yeah yeah and he expands Anfield so that you all can watch the match stadium, you are all praise for him.Humans are fickle creatures tbh
Are the players going to take a pay cut, so fans don’t have to pay an arm and a leg to bring their family to the match
Its not in the hands of players to take a pay cut!
lol you are proving the point!! of this whole big mess lol LFC players are the cheapest lol and you want to get players like Mbappe and Haaland in on cheap as well!!!
This is why FSG is looking for alternate ways of funding.... this is what Perez was talking about... Players are getting more expensive! FCs are needing to spend more and more for no good divas and they need funding! Players are not going to take a pay cut and play for LFC if they can get paid 3X as much for city! or yanited.... what rock have you been living under by the way lol... i know lockdown and everything hahaha
essentially no one is perfectly in the right or wrong fundamentally football is wrong and broken!
Great point Colin. Players wages is something that needs addressed and no one talks about it
Mate Utd and Chelsea have better squads than us and we are 7th and out of Europe for a reason.
Fsg cut the cloth too short.
Really, it took this to realise our morals weren't good? Guys I've been preaching this since we sacked New Balance. Please, let us apply the same pressure to amend things with New Balanc3 and get them back. Not this Nike Trash. Please. New Balance cared and loved us through it all and made the best kits for us. As a designer I'm telling you we had it all with them.
@Darth Pepe then I'm afraid you've missed he point of it all. What we've witnessed in regards to our financial moral dilemma the past few days was only the fruit. The roots and seeds of this type of mentality began with things like the sacking of New Balance. Family is our key motivator in this club. New Balance were family. For divinity sake it even recommends.you honour your contracts in the Bible; we became shit because we lost our values. Period't.
@@OLskewL You can always follow local club down the road with Dodgy Dave Chippy sponsors 🙄
@@whoknew2273 and it will be people like you that complain the most when you see the fruits of such decisions. Obviously missing the point completely. Fuck outta here. #bringbacknewbalance
But sign all the best players and pay then 400k a week! Yeah? Yeah?
I totally agree. Liverpool have done a deal with the devil under Nike. And look like complete hypocrites taking the knee while wearing Nike. Go woke go broke!
Google John Barnes on Talkradio regarding this subject...
talk sport talk shite lol... its John Barnes nuff said really... John Barnes is our most intelligent footballer, this isnt his first time showing how fierce some and formidable he is with words... he proved this when jumped to Liam Neesoms defence on racism! Jonh Barnes should be LFCs fan rep!!! surprised John Barnes isnt working for LFC higher up in some way... he should be our say no to racism etc
Great show..... again
"Better the devil you know, than the devil you don't know"
Say the whole phrase before you try and explain it
I think the first line is all you need to be fair
@@jonnybred4499 one guy didn't know or understand the phrase and the other guy tried to explain it (not very well) by the first line only. Really ??
Most people, myself included, tend to just use ‘Better the devil you know’ to be fair.
@@asadashraf2128 yes if both people understand the phrase, of course .
but if the person you are talking to doesn't understand , you would try to explain it with giving them the whole thing ???
@@seth1455 yeah, you’re right.