As someone who lives in a commune I'd like to explain: my community is still engaged in capitalism, while most of us don't have to deal with it directly. I don't have to think about spending, saving, investing or stressing about it. I don't like to deal with money so I like this lifestyle. It's not for everyone by any means.
@@onlyjazztoday that's a fair question. Generally, people in the income-sharing communes can retire in the communes they live in. They are taken care of until they die. That is to say, unless their commune dies before they do...
The comments makes my eyes bleed. Ya'll, selling something for a profit isn't automatically "capitalism". Markets and profits have existed long before capitalism. This is a socialist community, period. They collectively own the means of production and all produce according to need, and even receive an equal salary.
When people ask me about successfully implemented communism, I point to Twin Oaks. It’s not entirely communist, but it’s close enough to act as a window into what communism will be
This is absolutely capitalism. Who do you think is keeping the books for this place and seeing the profit? These people are simply slave wage workers while someone behind the curtain reaps the rewards. 😂
To me, the strong message that is sent through that short documentary is that worker owned and worker operated businesses can work, and that they are likely a lot more comfortable to work within than many other business structures. Democracy in the workplace is going to be an important battle in the future.
Well I guess it's very difficult to fully drop out of capitalism. Certainly in the US you gotta have at least some form of income to pay income tax and whatnot. And I think people also want to keep a certain standard of living with for instance modern health care and the usage of power tools which are things that you can't really make in your tiny commune
@@bbgamegodpnw that's a market, capitalism is having a boss that owns the business and gets the profit. They make their decisions democratically instead of having a boss.
@@maxwellvandenberg2977 They absolutely have bosses. They have a hierarchy of power, starting with a selection/rejection process for new members. When they don't fulfill their workload, there are punishments/expulsion. I'm happy it's working for them, but suggesting there aren't hierarchies or people with more power than others isn't accurate
I always suspected that half the appeal of zombie and post apocalypse movies and art was that it gives people an excuse to form or join an “intentional community” who are generally dissatisfied with our current state of society. I’m a union worker an activist for similar reasons that are described in this segment
these people didn't drop out of capitalism, they just found a different way to play the game. $600,000 a year profits and $120 hammocks are as capitalistic as it comes. to each his own. when you find people surviving WITHOUT playing the game for money, be sure to let me know, 'cause i'd like to know how they do it!
I mean, when capitalism is everywhere, you're kind of forced to play the game. They can't do everything themselves, here. The ideal way to do without capitalism would be to try to make a sufficent conglomerate of communes to have access to all industries. With enough people, it would definitely be possible.
@@wandererstraining Among others, yes. I do prefer Kropotkin, though. He's a man of science, and it shows through his methodical approach, and he writes quite well too. ^^
I was a member. You can't really expect a video like this to give you any more than a brief overview -- and that's all it does. It's all very distorted. Average length of stay there is 10 yrs only if you mess around with the numbers until 'average' takes on a whole new meaning. If you make a list of the people who are there right now and average it out (I wonder if they mean 'median' instead of 'average') then you probably get the 10 yrs figure. But I digress. I think the main takeaway from this is given between the lines. TO is NOT career oriented. The work that they do supports the community. If something you want to do doesn't support the community, you do it on your own time either at your own expense or you might receive a small stipend to buy some supplies you might need -- like paints and brushes if you are an artist. The community will not buy you a personal music instrument. If the community buys a drum kit, for example, it will be a public drum kit available to everyone. The result of all that being: if you want a "career" ... engineering, professional musician, website design, anything medical, etc ... you're wasting your time at TO. It's an interesting place to live and hang out for a couple of years, but anyone staying longer than that is there only for ideological reasons or because the interpersonal dynamics of living that closely with others appeals to them so much that the rest of their life tends to fade away. That dream you might have once had of being a travel consultant or an accountant just evaporates. If that's what you want to happen to you, then TO is your spot. Might also keep in mind that TO does not contribute to your Social Security account. If you stay there many years, then the prospect of receiving SS disappears as something you can depend on for retirement. Bottom line: people get stuck in community after a while and CAN'T leave (unless you want to live on the street and hope for a few bucks a day in donations to keep you from starving -- not a pleasant prospect for old age). Also be aware that the basic human desire to have children is not a decision you can make for yourself at TO. Children have to be approved by the community. Not only children arriving with their parent(s), but also pregnancies. Another thing, if diet is a major consideration for you, you don't have much control over what you eat at TO. Meals are prepared, and if you don't care for them then you go into the kitchen and cook something you like better. And yet another thing, if you live in a city you might have access to a million possible friends. At TO, you're stuck with the small number of people who are there on the farm at any one time. If there is no one there you are attracted to, then you're sort of out of luck. You can hope someone shows up eventually ... or you can leave. Many people just leave.
This is like farmers working together and taking care of everyone that creates an equal society where no one is competing with each other which makes all happy and contented with life.
Dropped out of capitalism? These communes make their own product and sell it to independent businesses im exchange of money --- this is the purest form of capitalism you can have.
If workers own the means of production which they do in said commune it's a socialist society. If everyone works and the receives according to their ability and need. That's communism
@@Stalin_Did_Nothing_Wrong curb that worked owned production bullshit , everything is government controlled in socialism . Either it's USSR or China , every communist country takes over the land owned by people and then forces them to work on it , under the garb of 'workers owned means of production' .
youre takin it to literally bud they mean they dropped out of conventional capitalism and are stressing the benefits of moderation, theyre neither all out socialist nor capitalist and it works for them. extremism ruins everything
@@bryantdidyourmom nawww they didn't drop out. They are selling their product at the highest price to the most amount of people. This is how they choose to live. In socialism the government won't allow this cult to even exist.
This raises a very old and forgotten distinction between capitalism and socialism, which unfortunately fell out after the communist countries after the USSR co-opted the term. Socialism is when the workers own the means of production, capitalism is when they're privately held. Engaging in a market isn't capitalism, which should be obvious because markets existed before capitalism.
I'm surprised this community is getting so much hate. They're just living together happily making hammocks and tofu. 😂😂😂 And they have a chill process to join. Others require 6000 dollars to go take a 5 week gardening class and if they like you then you can stay. So compared to all that they seem to have found a way to live in a communal sense but also survive in the real world. It seems much more relaxed than feeling like you're always having to compete with others, feeling isolated from one's community and like no matter how hard one tries, it's never enough. I have lived in a community vaguely like this and it was really really nice. Granted there was more diversity but we all had separate jobs based on interest and shared resources. We had a large garden that fed the people that lived in the house. Granted it was on a much smaller scale but it was still a nice moment in time while I resided there. I eventually left because my mom was going through some hard times and eventually died of sadness. After I stayed and took care of my father with dementia. And now my husband and I are looking into trying to create something similar to our community home in the future. But baby steps.
I feel like a lot of the negative comments are here because the title, but also because it's only 7 minutes. It's a really interesting subject, and I wish Vice would do more on the other communities they mentioned (kind of like their Kentucky Ayahuasca series but it's not following One Guy)
My brother tried doing this kind of living in Dexter, Or. He lasted a grand total of 3 months because of the crappy attitudes of people, crappy food, and crappy pay.
I don’t think people understand the difference between altering the social structure of a community away from capitalism...and abolishing the concept of capital. The title is clickbaity, I know. This community still exists within a capitalist society, but it’s clear that the institution of the community is not to bear profit or hierarchical economic structures, but to achieve an equilibrium between the participants, which is fundamentally not capitalist. It’s post capitalist. It similar to the relationships proto-capitalist societies had with “post feudalism”. It was a gradual transition. Not a socialist/communist. I merely think there is a fundamental difference between capitalism and what this community practices, regardless of any participation in the outer capitalist system.
I recently heard from someone who was there for three weeks that the commune essentially forces people to work in the tofu factory because that is where the money comes from and because working inside of a factory, instead of in the garden, is not enjoyable.
Yeah, that was kind of the idea I got. Nobody wants to do that, to the point that they needed a "morale booster manager" or whatever. Everything seemed amazing, except for that. It felt slavery-ish to me...
I have nothing negative to say about this story. Although I would go about the occupational system differently, for 15yrs I’ve been saying that this is an inevitability positive alternative to the grind. I’ve always dreamt of a hi-tech but energy renewable community. Communities integrating, stronger educations, better mental health...basically looking more @ a mindful future than a destructive past.
@@UMadBro13 we need a mixed of both ideologies for a perfect society. Neither crony capitalism nor communism is good. We need socialist ideas like workers welfare and capitalist ideas like free market trade.
@@pratyush4real workers welfare can break this kind of system. Any standardized health plan, and if the government makes it it will be standardized, usually breaks the back of communities like this because it will inevitably gatekeep the smaller and less profitable ones. Well there is the chance of abuse when there's no regulation, little to no regulation is what allows these kinds of things to exist. The correct solution to the problem of healthcare, is the freedom of the individual to move about. If the company, which is what this community basically is, does not provide sufficient resources to its participants, those participants will leave if they are able. Having other communities like this nearby allows those workers to move in and out between them, creating competition. This competition forces the communities to provide equivalent or better resources to attract more people. The problem of course, is it eventually one community Will rise above the rest providing the best benefits and monopolize the system. This is where the government comes in, but not to sanction the Monopoly. The proper solution is to offer the smaller communities a leg up to allow them to compete with the Monopoly. If this system is implemented from the beginning, the Monopoly can never truly rise, because the benefits will never be so much better that people won't gravitate towards the smaller communities. Basically, tldr, just apply the policies of Trump's economy to these communities, treating the communities like businesses.
4:49 Woman: relationships are less monogamous and thats why i like living here :) 5:07 Man: relationships can be really troubling, the pool can be really scarce and if you break up you cant get away lol wonder whos the guy getting all the girls
@@jackson7962 The evidence from evolutionary biology is clear, the natural state of a woman is muliple partners. That is how it was for almost all of human existance. There followed a few thousand years of patriarchy that enforced monogamy on women. That is only recently and imperfectly being dismantled. In the community in this video the women are free from material and financial dependence with the result that "relationships are less monogamous and thats why i like living here".
Dropped out of capitalism? I think someone needs to go re-read the definition of capitalism... This is literally exactly what capitalism is. People have truly become ignorant in the past few decades.
Title is clickbait. If you had actually watched the video, the man admits he still lives in a capitalist system, they just choose to participate differently.
They don't need to know that. if all the Communists decided that they wanted to do this and go live in these communities and not mess with everybody else, the world would be a much better place.
It would be capitalism if their commune was privately owned by one person that earns profit from their work. But its much more Communist because they all have everything according to their need and they provide according to their ability.
@@Ozzianman the point is that their system is not capitalist, its just an anarchist commune within the capitalist regime. If whole world was like that, they would still be an anarchist commune but within an anarchist society. They do not change the system they live in, they simply avoid it's opression. Like worker's coops.
@Essentialist yes i don't think that the people who work and stay there , at the end of the year, get to share the 600k amongst themself. they basically said that for the work they do there, they get food+shelter+healthcare + a small allowance per month for little pleasures like smoking and drinking.
Holy shit. You said it yourself, they are making good money from SELLING their products. They are basically a family of friends that thrive in capitalism, not drop it.
My family purchased what was to become Twin Maples Farm in upstate N.Y. in the early 1970's. It was definitely a commercial enterprise, although we were sometimes labeled as being communalistic. This was mostly due to our small- scale and "old- fashioned" farming practices (organics), and local prejudices that prevailed at the time. Anyway, we lost pretty much the entire place to foreclosure in the 1990's, small farms in N.Y. have had a hard time hanging on. (we only had a little over 150 acres to work with) With the economy seemingly sliding into another deep recession, I am now working on plans to revive Twin Maples. It wouldn't be on the original property, (the land was cut up and sold off following the foreclosure). It might not even be in New York state. I noticed in the graphic at the beginning of this video that upstate N.Y. is now apparently home to several communal communities, I wonder if anyone who is currently involved in one of these would care to chat, and give me some input and advice. Thank you.
Me: *Looks at comments* "This is Capitalism." Me: *watching video* Video: Workers collectively owning the means of production. *Socialism intensifies.* Me after video: Damn lol this is deeply Socialist. I am more surprised the CIA hasn't shown up yet.
Cult is one that is based on extreme irrational dogma which can never withstand scientific analysis. But Even if a very small group is far away from majority lifestyle as long as their system os based on reason and rationale it can still be considered as mainstream but a minority of people's choice. You may create many prototypes but very few become practically useful and reach the production lines.... But that doesn't make your other prototypes meaningless
That's your free choice, but remember that it is in a capitalist system that this choice is yours to freely make. If you try to "drop out" like this in many other systems, the state will force you to conform, or just dispose of you.
now these people will be forced to go through another layer of bureaucracy because they have to get consent from all their fellow community members, in a capitalist society, the only thing that really talks is money, you work, earn money, then you can instantly get what you want without permission or approval from anyone else less the regulations and laws imposed of the jurisdiction you are in.
@@iamchillydogg Agree, that part is not capitalism, but some things need to be regulated such as.....highways, transits, airports, public schools, sewage and Water Treatment, militaries, Trash services, & and any other general infrastructure....things that an individual wouldn't nor shouldn't have to be burdened with. I'd be more than happy to pay taxes for a government to take care of these public services and inconveniences. I personally wouldn't want to have to be stopped by a toll booth every so many miles on a highway.
@@fobypawz418 The function of government is to defend liberty, period. Those services should all be handled privately. You know radio tags exist that let you just drive through the toll station right?
@@iamchillydogg in other words zero micro-management? Just leave all domestic affairs under the responsibility of the people and the markets? I'm for that!
What happens when someone who lives in the community becomes disabled due to an accidental injury? Or give birth to a child with a disability or severe health issues?
Hey! So I recently did a 3 week visitation there so I think I can provide some answers. 1.) If someone becomes disabled from an injury while there and they needed medical treatment that isn’t covered by Medicaid, Twin Oaks has a health fund and they will pay for what you need. There is a residential building designed for people with mobility issues (single story, wide hallways with railings, wheelchair accessible, handicap bathrooms, etc). They even have golf carts for people with mobility issues to get around the farm. To spite what is shown in the video, there are actually a fair number of older folk who live there (65+) that utilize these accommodations. If your disability prevents you from being able to do some kinds of work, you simply don’t have to do those jobs. There are plenty of office/ administrative jobs there that do not require much physical labor. 2.) I can’t say for certain what would happen as there were no kids with disabilities that I knew of while I was there. However, I am extremely confident that Twin Oaks would support the parents and the child and take care of whatever accommodations they needed. They take childcare and parental support seriously there.
So you work 40 hours a week on necessary tasks to sustain the community and sell hammocks and tofu for money to pay for the living expenses. Labor has varying credit based on the demands within the community.... Its literally just a job at a company but the company controls the living situation.
"infamous scientist B.F. Skinner" How do so many people not understand that infamous =/= famous. Unless you are saying that B.F. Skinner was a wicked man... Also, is this a re-upload? I'm positive I saw this video a year or two ago.
Behaviorism has been one of the most abusive "therapies" out there, especially for certain people like those with autism. It focuses on outward "behaviors" rather than the reasons behind them. This tends to leave a large gap in mutual understanding and communicating. Behavior can be a form of communication when a person becomes overwhelmed or misunderstood, particularly if they have trouble with language.
I think all the content (so far) on this channel is recycled. I haven't seen this particular video before but I've seen a couple of the others and I've seen comments like this on all of them.
The history of the community was actually that it was started by poor working class people in the 1960s that banded together and established a quality of life that they otherwise have not have been able to afford as individuals.
DaddyGirl I’m in Williamsburg/Newport News and it’s pretty blue around here as well. You have to go into Gloucester/Mathews/West Point and all those less dense population areas before you start seeing majority red. Northern Va always decides the state and they’ve been blue for a long time.
@@gartner101 Turns out this isn't a communist utopia, the sell products to pier one. I wonder how many people they kicked out since the 70's ? I wonder what thier immigration policy is?
@@justcause7521 it was only a short clip but I don't think they claimed to be a communitst utopia. They are a tiny little community that has to survive within the broad corporate controlled economy. To survive they need to select appropriate peope to join them and, like any society, it has rules that need to be followed if you are to stay.
Well if they wish to follow such a lifestyle, then it isn't a problem. Things get out of hand when one set of people wish to impose a certain lifestyle on others. (P.S. I'm personally a free marketeer, and I don't find anything wrong with this).
Their way of living is not very productive, they're capable of supporting themselves, but if everyone lived like that we would have to give up ressource intensive things like space exploration, most science and a large population.
And what occurs when a person refuses to help or do their part. What happens when a person commits an interpersonal crime against another person. What happens when one person trespasses on another person. What happens if a person decides to use drugs instead of working. What happens when a person gets seriously ill? Obviously, it's not a long-term solution just a good times plan. Plus, what's the point if your working as hard or harder than you would on your own?
This is NOT an example of a Capitalist Society at all. The people who wrote this do not understand what Capitalism is. That being said, there us nothing wrong with a VOLUNTARY socialist or communist community so long as it is not imposed on those who were there first, it remains voluntary, and residents are free to leave whenever they want.
@@avengerpat well it does not matter whose opinion it is, As long as it's true. So keep your insults, you are just making yourself look even more triggered about being proven wrong.
This is the difference between capitalism and freedom and communes and socialism. In a free and capitalist society you can be free to form a socialist community. It does not happen the other way around
They're working in a capitalist society but the community itself is socialist/communist. It won't be able to be fully socialist/communist unless the entire world worked like this. this is a small sample of what to come
@@sigmaballsnetwork I must disagree, I wouldn't call it a "safe" Blue, as in California blue. I can't drive too far away from home without seeing a trump flag. I can't even leave my neighborhood without seeing one! But, I also can't leave my neighborhood without hearing one neighbor complain about him. Edit: I meant to put wouldn't not would
“Dropped out of capitalism” seems like a misnomer. This community certainly provides compelling evidence for how a post-capitalist society could theoretically work, but it’s not really possible (at least in America) to truly live outside of capitalism. It’s everywhere.
This is the definition of capitalism. Be honest with yourself - Only reason people like the idea of such a community is to relieve themselves of responsibility and there is nothing wrong if you choose to take that route for yourself , just please don’t lecture other people how to live And blame them when they receive fruits from responsibilities they took on.
So how did they drop out of capitalism? They would not survive without it. As milton Friedman said "capitalism doesn't guarantee freedom but freedom requires capitalism." These people are able to what they choose because capitalism has given them the ability to live how they want
As someone who lives in a commune I'd like to explain: my community is still engaged in capitalism, while most of us don't have to deal with it directly. I don't have to think about spending, saving, investing or stressing about it. I don't like to deal with money so I like this lifestyle. It's not for everyone by any means.
Is there a way to learn more about your commune? Also in what country is it?
But what's ur retirement plan?
@@DoubleBob cambia community in Virginia usa
@@onlyjazztoday that's a fair question. Generally, people in the income-sharing communes can retire in the communes they live in. They are taken care of until they die. That is to say, unless their commune dies before they do...
@@gilbenmoshe9144 Your arrangement sounds cool. I'll look into it. Thanks!
The comments makes my eyes bleed. Ya'll, selling something for a profit isn't automatically "capitalism". Markets and profits have existed long before capitalism. This is a socialist community, period. They collectively own the means of production and all produce according to need, and even receive an equal salary.
Market Socialism?
@@zhcultivator it mostly isn't market socialism though. Most things are done without money. It's mostly communist.
Wrong
When people ask me about successfully implemented communism, I point to Twin Oaks. It’s not entirely communist, but it’s close enough to act as a window into what communism will be
This is absolutely capitalism. Who do you think is keeping the books for this place and seeing the profit? These people are simply slave wage workers while someone behind the curtain reaps the rewards. 😂
To me, the strong message that is sent through that short documentary is that worker owned and worker operated businesses can work, and that they are likely a lot more comfortable to work within than many other business structures. Democracy in the workplace is going to be an important battle in the future.
Worker co-ops have existed for centuries. If the circumstances are favorable of course they can work.
@@iamchillydogg I know. I should have formulated my comment better. Something like: "Yet more evidence that..."
Word
They work, and exist, quite commonally so. But as people are, mistakes are made.
It only works on a small scale. Would never work on a national basis in a country as large as the United States
“What we are doing is Capitalism”
Vice: “THIS COMMUNITY HAS DROPPED OUT OF CAPITALISM”
Well I guess it's very difficult to fully drop out of capitalism. Certainly in the US you gotta have at least some form of income to pay income tax and whatnot. And I think people also want to keep a certain standard of living with for instance modern health care and the usage of power tools which are things that you can't really make in your tiny commune
@@leaschmitt2496 because its intwine with human nature. Me selling or trading you something is capitalism. You can't stop it
@@bbgamegodpnw that's a market, capitalism is having a boss that owns the business and gets the profit. They make their decisions democratically instead of having a boss.
Harking back to 0:07 I also think he may be over the limit. Needs to be checked out.
@@maxwellvandenberg2977 They absolutely have bosses. They have a hierarchy of power, starting with a selection/rejection process for new members. When they don't fulfill their workload, there are punishments/expulsion. I'm happy it's working for them, but suggesting there aren't hierarchies or people with more power than others isn't accurate
Instantly respected this man when he acknowledged he was still living in a capitalist regime
Easy to earn your respect then 😅
@@ZahdShah the guy in the video isn't a sentimental fool. He knows what he's got himself into. If he's okay with it, more power to him.
@@saeseetiin5585 I agree
"He said a fact and I instantly respected him" are you buying bulls for your wife?
@cannabased and sign up for the involuntary socialism, batting 1000.
I always suspected that half the appeal of zombie and post apocalypse movies and art was that it gives people an excuse to form or join an “intentional community” who are generally dissatisfied with our current state of society.
I’m a union worker an activist for similar reasons that are described in this segment
"tofu moral manager to boost the happiness of the residents who spend their days hauling bags of soybeans"
The jokes writes themselves
But not with proper spelling or grammar. LMAO
😂😂
I bet the tofu moral manager is just a dude with a gun
Lmfao vice caught lacking once again
Tell me, does capitalism regulate these shitty jobs any better? If not, wtf is your point exactly?
these people didn't drop out of capitalism, they just found a different way to play the game.
$600,000 a year profits and $120 hammocks are as capitalistic as it comes.
to each his own.
when you find people surviving WITHOUT playing the game for money, be sure to let me know, 'cause i'd like to know how they do it!
Go to desert island and start a colony.
There occasionally are, but they're really rare, and as far as I know, it's mostly isolated individuals.
I mean, when capitalism is everywhere, you're kind of forced to play the game. They can't do everything themselves, here. The ideal way to do without capitalism would be to try to make a sufficent conglomerate of communes to have access to all industries. With enough people, it would definitely be possible.
@@hecagamer Wasn't it Proudhon who was in favour of an anarchist federation?
@@wandererstraining Among others, yes. I do prefer Kropotkin, though. He's a man of science, and it shows through his methodical approach, and he writes quite well too. ^^
I was a member. You can't really expect a video like this to give you any more than a brief overview -- and that's all it does. It's all very distorted. Average length of stay there is 10 yrs only if you mess around with the numbers until 'average' takes on a whole new meaning. If you make a list of the people who are there right now and average it out (I wonder if they mean 'median' instead of 'average') then you probably get the 10 yrs figure. But I digress.
I think the main takeaway from this is given between the lines. TO is NOT career oriented. The work that they do supports the community. If something you want to do doesn't support the community, you do it on your own time either at your own expense or you might receive a small stipend to buy some supplies you might need -- like paints and brushes if you are an artist. The community will not buy you a personal music instrument. If the community buys a drum kit, for example, it will be a public drum kit available to everyone.
The result of all that being: if you want a "career" ... engineering, professional musician, website design, anything medical, etc ... you're wasting your time at TO. It's an interesting place to live and hang out for a couple of years, but anyone staying longer than that is there only for ideological reasons or because the interpersonal dynamics of living that closely with others appeals to them so much that the rest of their life tends to fade away. That dream you might have once had of being a travel consultant or an accountant just evaporates. If that's what you want to happen to you, then TO is your spot.
Might also keep in mind that TO does not contribute to your Social Security account. If you stay there many years, then the prospect of receiving SS disappears as something you can depend on for retirement. Bottom line: people get stuck in community after a while and CAN'T leave (unless you want to live on the street and hope for a few bucks a day in donations to keep you from starving -- not a pleasant prospect for old age).
Also be aware that the basic human desire to have children is not a decision you can make for yourself at TO. Children have to be approved by the community. Not only children arriving with their parent(s), but also pregnancies. Another thing, if diet is a major consideration for you, you don't have much control over what you eat at TO. Meals are prepared, and if you don't care for them then you go into the kitchen and cook something you like better. And yet another thing, if you live in a city you might have access to a million possible friends. At TO, you're stuck with the small number of people who are there on the farm at any one time. If there is no one there you are attracted to, then you're sort of out of luck. You can hope someone shows up eventually ... or you can leave. Many people just leave.
Thank you for taking the time to write this, very interesting and informative.
This was really helpful, thank you sm!!
If you leave, what happens to everything you bought in to TO?
Ngl it sounds really controlling
@@danc101sounds like a vegan pro-abortion lobby group, yikes.
It’s a company town , with a heart.
There is no CEO because there is no legal framework to defend them.
Sort of. But the party who actually owns the property is not asserting any special privileges to micromanage the direction of the property.
This is like farmers working together and taking care of everyone that creates an equal society where no one is competing with each other which makes all happy and contented with life.
When politicians talk of Anarchy. This is what anarchy is.
But in a mass scale it doesn't work
that sounds a lot like communism to me
If you want to be a bum and have less wealth during retirement than you do that. Dont force me to be that way.
that would be nice wouldn’t it? doesn’t work with a lot of people and that’s sadly why it doesn’t work in today’s society
Dropped out of capitalism? These communes make their own product and sell it to independent businesses im exchange of money --- this is the purest form of capitalism you can have.
The video said dropped out of capitalism. They never said that. They labeled them and then said but our own label isn’t correct.
Did you watch the whole video?
That is the definition. This is a mico economy of capitalism
If workers own the means of production which they do in said commune it's a socialist society. If everyone works and the receives according to their ability and need. That's communism
@@Stalin_Did_Nothing_Wrong curb that worked owned production bullshit , everything is government controlled in socialism . Either it's USSR or China , every communist country takes over the land owned by people and then forces them to work on it , under the garb of 'workers owned means of production' .
"dropped out of capitalism", yet he is worried whole foods is lowering tofu prices because , he wont make as much selling it.. that's ass backwards.
youre takin it to literally bud they mean they dropped out of conventional capitalism and are stressing the benefits of moderation, theyre neither all out socialist nor capitalist and it works for them. extremism ruins everything
@@bryantdidyourmom nawww they didn't drop out. They are selling their product at the highest price to the most amount of people. This is how they choose to live. In socialism the government won't allow this cult to even exist.
I guess it's more of a state-run capitalist situation. not really that post capitalist
@@adog31095 yeah. Aka communism. But what happens when people don't wanna make that stuff anymore. Or one person is more productive than the other
@@shootmovecommunicate3322
.I b>
The man jumping at the end surprised me a bit with that agility lol
Isn’t that fun! 😂
Sasha Chifura lmfaooo
Isn’t that fun 🤩
This raises a very old and forgotten distinction between capitalism and socialism, which unfortunately fell out after the communist countries after the USSR co-opted the term. Socialism is when the workers own the means of production, capitalism is when they're privately held. Engaging in a market isn't capitalism, which should be obvious because markets existed before capitalism.
I'm surprised this community is getting so much hate. They're just living together happily making hammocks and tofu. 😂😂😂 And they have a chill process to join. Others require 6000 dollars to go take a 5 week gardening class and if they like you then you can stay. So compared to all that they seem to have found a way to live in a communal sense but also survive in the real world. It seems much more relaxed than feeling like you're always having to compete with others, feeling isolated from one's community and like no matter how hard one tries, it's never enough. I have lived in a community vaguely like this and it was really really nice. Granted there was more diversity but we all had separate jobs based on interest and shared resources. We had a large garden that fed the people that lived in the house. Granted it was on a much smaller scale but it was still a nice moment in time while I resided there.
I eventually left because my mom was going through some hard times and eventually died of sadness. After I stayed and took care of my father with dementia. And now my husband and I are looking into trying to create something similar to our community home in the future. But baby steps.
I feel like a lot of the negative comments are here because the title, but also because it's only 7 minutes. It's a really interesting subject, and I wish Vice would do more on the other communities they mentioned (kind of like their Kentucky Ayahuasca series but it's not following One Guy)
@Jarnal Singh Brindinwale Probably because of the very extreme white to black ratio
My brother tried doing this kind of living in Dexter, Or. He lasted a grand total of 3 months because of the crappy attitudes of people, crappy food, and crappy pay.
@@greatwhiteshark4931 i guess that's down to the people he was working with really
@Kyle A Huh? Maybe ask an adult to help you write the next one?
@Kyle A :)
I lived here for a couple of years, and I love it when the algorithms randomly put videos about it in my feed. Good times. I enjoyed my time there.
I don’t think people understand the difference between altering the social structure of a community away from capitalism...and abolishing the concept of capital. The title is clickbaity, I know. This community still exists within a capitalist society, but it’s clear that the institution of the community is not to bear profit or hierarchical economic structures, but to achieve an equilibrium between the participants, which is fundamentally not capitalist. It’s post capitalist. It similar to the relationships proto-capitalist societies had with “post feudalism”. It was a gradual transition.
Not a socialist/communist. I merely think there is a fundamental difference between capitalism and what this community practices, regardless of any participation in the outer capitalist system.
This title seems inappropriate
Correct, they say it at the end too
Should be 'This Community Harnessed Capitalism'
Indeed.
They are basically regular company, which priority is not profit, but "employees". This can work in small communities where are no freeloaders.
I recently heard from someone who was there for three weeks that the commune essentially forces people to work in the tofu factory because that is where the money comes from and because working inside of a factory, instead of in the garden, is not enjoyable.
Yeah, that was kind of the idea I got. Nobody wants to do that, to the point that they needed a "morale booster manager" or whatever. Everything seemed amazing, except for that. It felt slavery-ish to me...
I have nothing negative to say about this story. Although I would go about the occupational system differently, for 15yrs I’ve been saying that this is an inevitability positive alternative to the grind. I’ve always dreamt of a hi-tech but energy renewable community. Communities integrating, stronger educations, better mental health...basically looking more @ a mindful future than a destructive past.
" thanks to lack of zoning laws and LOW TAXES " - sounds very capitalistic to me.
Oftentimes ideas simply exist. Sure we live in a capitalistic society but there are several regulations in order that are socialist in nature.
@@UMadBro13 we need a mixed of both ideologies for a perfect society. Neither crony capitalism nor communism is good. We need socialist ideas like workers welfare and capitalist ideas like free market trade.
@@pratyush4real Market socialism >>
Low taxes isn't inherently capitalist.
@@pratyush4real workers welfare can break this kind of system. Any standardized health plan, and if the government makes it it will be standardized, usually breaks the back of communities like this because it will inevitably gatekeep the smaller and less profitable ones. Well there is the chance of abuse when there's no regulation, little to no regulation is what allows these kinds of things to exist.
The correct solution to the problem of healthcare, is the freedom of the individual to move about. If the company, which is what this community basically is, does not provide sufficient resources to its participants, those participants will leave if they are able. Having other communities like this nearby allows those workers to move in and out between them, creating competition. This competition forces the communities to provide equivalent or better resources to attract more people.
The problem of course, is it eventually one community Will rise above the rest providing the best benefits and monopolize the system. This is where the government comes in, but not to sanction the Monopoly. The proper solution is to offer the smaller communities a leg up to allow them to compete with the Monopoly. If this system is implemented from the beginning, the Monopoly can never truly rise, because the benefits will never be so much better that people won't gravitate towards the smaller communities.
Basically, tldr, just apply the policies of Trump's economy to these communities, treating the communities like businesses.
These communities have the potential to have a profoundly positive impact on the greater society.
4:49 Woman: relationships are less monogamous and thats why i like living here :)
5:07 Man: relationships can be really troubling, the pool can be really scarce and if you break up you cant get away
lol wonder whos the guy getting all the girls
Scrolled down to find this comment. Video is a repost and the sex thing is predictable af. Just look at the way it works on cruise ships between crew.
Monogamy has to be maintained by coercive force. It cannot persist in a society where women are free.
@@gartner101 women are free especially in the West. And many choose to settle down and marry a man lmfao
@@jackson7962 The evidence from evolutionary biology is clear, the natural state of a woman is muliple partners. That is how it was for almost all of human existance. There followed a few thousand years of patriarchy that enforced monogamy on women. That is only recently and imperfectly being dismantled. In the community in this video the women are free from material and financial dependence with the result that "relationships are less monogamous and thats why i like living here".
@@gartner101 until that woman gets pregnant and has dozens of children with no one to assist her...monogamy works
Dropped out of capitalism? I think someone needs to go re-read the definition of capitalism...
This is literally exactly what capitalism is. People have truly become ignorant in the past few decades.
Title is clickbait. If you had actually watched the video, the man admits he still lives in a capitalist system, they just choose to participate differently.
Robert Kennedy Jr. said IQ's in America have dropped 7 points per generation since WW2.
They don't need to know that. if all the Communists decided that they wanted to do this and go live in these communities and not mess with everybody else, the world would be a much better place.
It would be capitalism if their commune was privately owned by one person that earns profit from their work.
But its much more Communist because they all have everything according to their need and they provide according to their ability.
@@Ozzianman the point is that their system is not capitalist, its just an anarchist commune within the capitalist regime.
If whole world was like that, they would still be an anarchist commune but within an anarchist society.
They do not change the system they live in, they simply avoid it's opression.
Like worker's coops.
600K a month in profits?
DEFFENETLY sounds like they dropped out of capitalism l.
A year
@@PilliamWilliam Still tho!
@Essentialist yes i don't think that the people who work and stay there , at the end of the year, get to share the 600k amongst themself. they basically said that for the work they do there, they get food+shelter+healthcare + a small allowance per month for little pleasures like smoking and drinking.
@Essentialist yes people controlling the means of production is communism
@Essentialist yes basically you just defined COMMUNISM (the paper/ideal communism and not the actual thing that’s happening). Genius!
It's a leisure-based, fun-based commune where you work 40 hours a week carrying around bags of soya beans.
This vídeo is recycled
This isn't people dropping out of capitalism. They practice capitalism just not cronyism
Did dude literally in mid swing just ask someone watching him "isn't that fun"
Holy shit. You said it yourself, they are making good money from SELLING their products. They are basically a family of friends that thrive in capitalism, not drop it.
My family purchased what was to become Twin Maples Farm in upstate N.Y. in the early 1970's. It was definitely a commercial enterprise, although we were sometimes labeled as being communalistic. This was mostly due to our small- scale and "old- fashioned" farming practices (organics), and local prejudices that prevailed at the time. Anyway, we lost pretty much the entire place to foreclosure in the 1990's, small farms in N.Y. have had a hard time hanging on. (we only had a little over 150 acres to work with) With the economy seemingly sliding into another deep recession, I am now working on plans to revive Twin Maples. It wouldn't be on the original property, (the land was cut up and sold off following the foreclosure). It might not even be in New York state. I noticed in the graphic at the beginning of this video that upstate N.Y. is now apparently home to several communal communities, I wonder if anyone who is currently involved in one of these would care to chat, and give me some input and advice. Thank you.
This only works because it’s a relatively small place make it any bigger and it’s not gonna be such a smooth operation
Me: *Looks at comments* "This is Capitalism."
Me: *watching video*
Video: Workers collectively owning the means of production.
*Socialism intensifies.*
Me after video: Damn lol this is deeply Socialist. I am more surprised the CIA hasn't shown up yet.
November 2020: this video is old ... 👴🏻
I guess Vice are recycling content. Not much going on lol.
So what, the community still exists and I am seeing this for the first time.
I was thinking the same thing.
Beauty of capitalism, you can form “communist-style” communes
Indeed
It is pure utopian communism without a religious bigotry
I thought it me socialism because industry is owned by the worker and everybody benefits
It’s obviously a cult, this video is just a front
Cult is one that is based on extreme irrational dogma which can never withstand scientific analysis. But Even if a very small group is far away from majority lifestyle as long as their system os based on reason and rationale it can still be considered as mainstream but a minority of people's choice. You may create many prototypes but very few become practically useful and reach the production lines.... But that doesn't make your other prototypes meaningless
That's your free choice, but remember that it is in a capitalist system that this choice is yours to freely make. If you try to "drop out" like this in many other systems, the state will force you to conform, or just dispose of you.
now these people will be forced to go through another layer of bureaucracy because they have to get consent from all their fellow community members, in a capitalist society, the only thing that really talks is money, you work, earn money, then you can instantly get what you want without permission or approval from anyone else less the regulations and laws imposed of the jurisdiction you are in.
@@fobypawz418
If the law keeps you from getting what you want then you do need the permission of others which isn't capitalism.
@@iamchillydogg Agree, that part is not capitalism, but some things need to be regulated such as.....highways, transits, airports, public schools, sewage and Water Treatment, militaries, Trash services, & and any other general infrastructure....things that an individual wouldn't nor shouldn't have to be burdened with. I'd be more than happy to pay taxes for a government to take care of these public services and inconveniences. I personally wouldn't want to have to be stopped by a toll booth every so many miles on a highway.
@@fobypawz418
The function of government is to defend liberty, period. Those services should all be handled privately. You know radio tags exist that let you just drive through the toll station right?
@@iamchillydogg in other words zero micro-management? Just leave all domestic affairs under the responsibility of the people and the markets? I'm for that!
I love the whole " keep your debt but you're essentially taxed 100 percent"
What happens when someone who lives in the community becomes disabled due to an accidental injury? Or give birth to a child with a disability or severe health issues?
Hey! So I recently did a 3 week visitation there so I think I can provide some answers.
1.) If someone becomes disabled from an injury while there and they needed medical treatment that isn’t covered by Medicaid, Twin Oaks has a health fund and they will pay for what you need. There is a residential building designed for people with mobility issues (single story, wide hallways with railings, wheelchair accessible, handicap bathrooms, etc). They even have golf carts for people with mobility issues to get around the farm. To spite what is shown in the video, there are actually a fair number of older folk who live there (65+) that utilize these accommodations. If your disability prevents you from being able to do some kinds of work, you simply don’t have to do those jobs. There are plenty of office/ administrative jobs there that do not require much physical labor.
2.) I can’t say for certain what would happen as there were no kids with disabilities that I knew of while I was there. However, I am extremely confident that Twin Oaks would support the parents and the child and take care of whatever accommodations they needed. They take childcare and parental support seriously there.
I notice a huge lack of racial diversity, I’m going to have to call the SPLC to ensure they are enriched
>Dropped out of capitalism
You mean the urban grind?
Comment section is filled with experts on Capitalism and Communism, no need scroll further.
So you work 40 hours a week on necessary tasks to sustain the community and sell hammocks and tofu for money to pay for the living expenses. Labor has varying credit based on the demands within the community....
Its literally just a job at a company but the company controls the living situation.
And the "company" is controlled by the people who live in it. They own the means of production.
"infamous scientist B.F. Skinner"
How do so many people not understand that infamous =/= famous. Unless you are saying that B.F. Skinner was a wicked man...
Also, is this a re-upload? I'm positive I saw this video a year or two ago.
Behaviorism has been one of the most abusive "therapies" out there, especially for certain people like those with autism.
It focuses on outward "behaviors" rather than the reasons behind them.
This tends to leave a large gap in mutual understanding and communicating.
Behavior can be a form of communication when a person becomes overwhelmed or misunderstood, particularly if they have trouble with language.
I think all the content (so far) on this channel is recycled. I haven't seen this particular video before but I've seen a couple of the others and I've seen comments like this on all of them.
@@allisonschempf2230 Psychologists abuse behaviorism, not the other way around. Even Skinner himself disagreed with their methods.
Nothings wrong with capitalism...as long as you are sharing all profits(100% of it) based on employee contribution.
Well they use capitalism to make money
But within the community It’s all collective I get it
Think of it like a country trading with other countries
Better title: "Rich people decide to start a self sufficient life in rural Virginia".
Rich White people.
The history of the community was actually that it was started by poor working class people in the 1960s that banded together and established a quality of life that they otherwise have not have been able to afford as individuals.
I live and am from Va, and we are not a “red state”, and haven’t been that way in a while.
i mean, aside from big cities, the state is red. As is with most states, only the idiots in the cities vote blue hahahaa
@DaddyGirl Don't forget VA Beach area thats blue aswell
Democrat Governor, Democrat Senators, Democrat houses of state congress. Oh yeah super red state.
DaddyGirl I’m in Williamsburg/Newport News and it’s pretty blue around here as well. You have to go into Gloucester/Mathews/West Point and all those less dense population areas before you start seeing majority red. Northern Va always decides the state and they’ve been blue for a long time.
Prince Edward and surrounding counties are definitely red.
All I see is...... In a commune, you share what you EARN but you still have to EARN it just in more less private way.
These communes always collapse because over time you have 10% of people doing 90% of the work.
It's been running since the 70s
@@gartner101 Turns out this isn't a communist utopia, the sell products to pier one. I wonder how many people they kicked out since the 70's ? I wonder what thier immigration policy is?
I also wonder if the founder is sitting on a beach siphoning of 30% of that $600,000 a year.
@@justcause7521 it was only a short clip but I don't think they claimed to be a communitst utopia. They are a tiny little community that has to survive within the broad corporate controlled economy. To survive they need to select appropriate peope to join them and, like any society, it has rules that need to be followed if you are to stay.
@@modestproposal9114 fair enough, but many of these communes from the 60's that were based on communists principles collapsed.
Quick summary is people come and stay for the community they yearn for in their lives.
Well if they wish to follow such a lifestyle, then it isn't a problem. Things get out of hand when one set of people wish to impose a certain lifestyle on others. (P.S. I'm personally a free marketeer, and I don't find anything wrong with this).
What....like now with lockdown restrictions??lol
This is how people should live.
Their way of living is not very productive, they're capable of supporting themselves, but if everyone lived like that we would have to give up ressource intensive things like space exploration, most science and a large population.
Not dropped from capitalism but more like dropped corporatism
I feel like I´ve watched this video like a year ago, anyone else?
“red state america?”
virginia is a solid blue state, so not sure where they got that.....
You tell em!
Maybe they mean rural Virginia? Like a lot of blue states Virginia is only blue in and around the major population centers.
I wonder what the government thinks of this? I mean, what even is the legal implications regarding Twin Oaks?
These guys accidentally did the most American thing possible.
They are probably anti American, which is ironic
I know right. 🤣🤣🤣
@@bbgamegodpnw yeah thats the modern problem 😑😑😑 uneducated youth
100% taxation is not traditionally American
@@katieakin9397 lol. This is true. They used capitalism to create a socialist dream in the short term. Long term people tend to want things.
Misleading title, I want my 7 minutes back!
So where do the profits go?
And what occurs when a person refuses to help or do their part. What happens when a person commits an interpersonal crime against another person. What happens when one person trespasses on another person. What happens if a person decides to use drugs instead of working. What happens when a person gets seriously ill? Obviously, it's not a long-term solution just a good times plan. Plus, what's the point if your working as hard or harder than you would on your own?
Great series. Outliers are just early adopters. Good luck y"all.
Pier one recently closed down permanently anyway
"This Community Participates in Capitalism"
There, I fixed your title
"Inside a Post-Capitalism Community" explores how this commune engages in capitalism
They seem to act like a union at least where they share the surplus rather than one CEO keeping it
This is NOT an example of a Capitalist Society at all. The people who wrote this do not understand what Capitalism is.
That being said, there us nothing wrong with a VOLUNTARY socialist or communist community so long as it is not imposed on those who were there first, it remains voluntary, and residents are free to leave whenever they want.
I don't know how I feel about this video
Let them do what they wanna do
Have they dropped out of capitalism or created a corporation that actually insulates its employees from the economic system's pitfalls?
"Thanks to lax zoning laws and low taxes" hmmmm its like libretrians been saying this for a long time.
"The average stay at Twin Oaks is 10 years." .... Really? I think it's more like 3.5 years. Unless that's changed recently.
"This community dropped out of capitalism"
"They make profit by selling hammocks and tofu"
LOL
Nobody earns profit from their labour, only them
And nobody exploits their work.
They are free of capitalist opression.
@@comradeboris167 Nobody asked you commie loser
@@avengerpat is this how you handle being proven wrong ?
Comrade Boris its how i handle the opinion of worthless communist rats
@@avengerpat well it does not matter whose opinion it is,
As long as it's true.
So keep your insults, you are just making yourself look even more triggered about being proven wrong.
0:42 ....."thanks to lack zoning laws and low taxes.......In the heart of rural red state america"
imagine my shock
Feels like walking dead scene....
where do i sign up??
Concerning the ad before this video, do people really have butts so stinky they need deodorant? Soap and water can't handle it?
Ads are served based off your browsing habits. Maybe you should look inward first.
SWAGGED
This is the difference between capitalism and freedom and communes and socialism. In a free and capitalist society you can be free to form a socialist community. It does not happen the other way around
It's just capitalism in a treehouse
They're working in a capitalist society but the community itself is socialist/communist. It won't be able to be fully socialist/communist unless the entire world worked like this. this is a small sample of what to come
Lol this guy basically owns slaves. Change my mind.
Lol he just rebranded
He pays the people tho that’s not slavery
@@tarzan8470 100% tax. Sounds like free labor.
They are white supremacists look up there website💀
How do I sign up
This just seems like a cult with extra steps
Too social for my introvert butt
It’s not a red state. We have blue senators, blue governor, we aren’t even a swing state anymore
The area is red, not the state
I thought we have voted red recently? As in 21st century
@@ja-naeharris8193 yeah, but now it’s becoming safe blue
@@sigmaballsnetwork I must disagree, I wouldn't call it a "safe" Blue, as in California blue. I can't drive too far away from home without seeing a trump flag. I can't even leave my neighborhood without seeing one! But, I also can't leave my neighborhood without hearing one neighbor complain about him.
Edit: I meant to put wouldn't not would
“Dropped out of capitalism” seems like a misnomer. This community certainly provides compelling evidence for how a post-capitalist society could theoretically work, but it’s not really possible (at least in America) to truly live outside of capitalism. It’s everywhere.
After watching Midsommar movie I am scared that they can be the real one.
This video shows a cluster of communes that have evolved beyond corporate capitalism.
That just sounds like capitalism with extra steps
This is the definition of capitalism. Be honest with yourself - Only reason people like the idea of such a community is to relieve themselves of responsibility and there is nothing wrong if you choose to take that route for yourself , just please don’t lecture other people how to live And blame them when they receive fruits from responsibilities they took on.
Actually this is more like Anarcho-capitalism, and it's ok 👍
The man in the red shirt at the end has it all figured out
Next episode “community drops out of communism”.... never mind.
How do they retire? 😳
At some point it will be filled with the elderly people who need support
The first 10 seconds put me off. Work hard, play harder
What happens when the inevitable suffering starts. This place falls apart :/
why not sell not-for-profit? That's post-capitalist
More like they dropped out of socialism.
Thank god we have people today that are so much smarter then the people before them, you guys did it you fixed capitalism
This is gonna go downhill right
So how did they drop out of capitalism? They would not survive without it. As milton Friedman said "capitalism doesn't guarantee freedom but freedom requires capitalism." These people are able to what they choose because capitalism has given them the ability to live how they want