The Guild Wars 2 Heart of Thorns Review | Masteries
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- Опубликовано: 19 апр 2017
- Those who have followed me closely since the release of Heart of Thorns may know some of my more controversial opinions towards the masteries system. Well here I hope to lay them all down and justify them!
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Honestly I can say that if masteries weren't account bound as a rather casual player it would kill my enjoyment for heart of thorns maps as I'm still not maxed out at this point and I'd be even farther from finishing them than i already am. It would simply be extremely frustrating having to re-get masteries I've already done. Perhaps if the requirements were significantly re-tuned it could work, but then you have people getting them even faster if they only play one character and its even less meaningful for them.
exactly, I bought HoT at release and only recently got 173 MPs
The thing to keep in mind is that a character bound mastery system would be *entirely* different than the current account bound system. It could be based around actually DOING small side bits with things to feel like you're ACTUALLY learning to make and improve a glider.
I'd be ok with them adding a new set of "mastery points" that are character bound and leave HoT and Core Tyria as account bound and on achievements
If masteries become character bound it would hurt people at this point. Think about raiders that want to swap chars or play a different class for once, gotta kill a boss first then do all the masteries again including full gliding tree for xera. That would hurt versatility for players. Same with fractals. The masteries there are very useful, the mistlock singularity is very helpful, imagine someone just wanting to swap class and not having acces to it.
Exactly, whether or not you agree or disagree with the Mastery System being account bound or not, its too late to change it now, the game has been designed around Masteries being a one time unlock per account and Raiding and Fractals were designed around that, the root of the problem isn't the fact they are account bound, the root of the problem is everything else WP talked about, the lack of lore and flavor, how boring the actual process is, how disjointed and "universal" the system feels, the complete lack of variety in how the Masteries actually work (especially in core Tyria) the developers NEED to refine how the system works, make obtaining the points much more interesting then some random collectable achievement that gives you a point...somehow, as well as making the actual skills themselves more interesting
Couldn't agree more.
True I was simply voicing my concern about the future. Considering these obvious flaws with the system we come to the question what happens next? Do we keep the mastery system and just try to make the masteries themselves better or is it best to add another new system on top which becomes character bound.
well it might be to late for hot but its never to late for the next exoac and its masteries
I feel the same thing is true for leveling characters and world completion.
Both about what ATotallyTrustworthyTeacup said, and thewaterguy17.
While not as crucial to rading or fractals; I generally stick to my main for dailies because everytime I pick one of the other 5 alts, I don't have that location unlocked.
And I generally don't have the time to walk my characters over to those locations.
It might add up over time, of course. But that'd be like telling me to not teleport at all to save a silver and a copper.
Doing 6 times the same thing isn't going to help either.
They need to put a big fat sign right at the start of the game "THIS IS NOT A TYPICAL MMO, RUSHING TO END GAME WILL YIELD LITTLE BENEFIT HERE, THE JOURNEY IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS THE DESTINATION" - After reading that, then the character creator should pop up ....
Aha, actually I think this would help a lot of people!
Can we include a note that the professions are to be seen as completely new and unique to gw2 and be understood and played as such even if they bear a superficial resemblance to your main in a different game? :p
The amount of people I've had to say this to is amazing. I usually don't ever see them ever again after helping them out and showing them how to level up.
The question i get the most from new players: "What is the fastest way to level?".
It only works if the journey is actually fun. I know many players who found it plain boring.
I'm in favor of them being account bound, because while it may have been magical at the launch of the expansion for everyone to be on a near even playing field and the experience of running on foot through the jungle may have been great, making masteries character bound isn't going to make that any more enjoyable or "magical" of an experience. If anything, as we near the two year post-launch mark, it would progressively become more and more of a chore to have to grind through even more than we already do with new characters and alts, and the argument that they "shouldn't have to be grindy" isn't a good enough excuse when the reality of the situation is that they absolutely would be a grind and a chore after the third time through.
And really, I kind of like the idea of the magic experience of everyone not having maxed masteries at launch actually being a magical experience to remember about the launch of an expansion. We got to experience it again to a lesser degree in bloodstone fen, and we'll eventually get to experience it once more.
As an addon to this, I don't want to imagine what it would be like to have to do the map meta events with everyone just being there for mastery points and having nothing they need unlocked on those characters.
There's only a handful of meta events that required anything more than updrafts and bouncing mushrooms though.
Exactly. WP might long for the magical first time experience, but that wouldn't return anyway. That's just the perk of being there on release.
Besides, levelling to 80 is a character-bound progression that most veterans now skip with the overabundance of scrolls and tomes. People would just end up playing much less on their alts as *any* reset of mastery progression on other characters would be a grind, or they'd just let the tomes work on masteries too, invalidating the whole concept.
Really disliked that masteries were tied to achievements, that sometimes were really stupid and has little to do with furthering your character; it's just doing content in a really awkward way. I dislike this more than the mastery themselves. I still have not maxed the masteries nearly, despite being really into the game world - I am just having a hard time doing some of the dungeon ones, due to being fearful and lacking time to join them. More, I feel like some events on the older HoT maps are so hard to complete, for one who missed the initial rush... still didn't ever kill the Chak gerent, for example. But that last bit is less about mastery system and more just a general design problem as the expansion ages.
same here. Dont event have explored all of the HoT maps because it is so confusing.
hmm interesting. in my case making an alt and exploring HoT maps is still one of the best parts of the game.
Violet Bliss I just hated the fact that you couldn't go around like in the core game
"Oh there is is Vista let me see on the map. Aha it looks like I have to go there and then I will figure something out". vistas for example are far better reachable in the core game as in HoT you have to go around the whole map to get on Vista.
Very few games get that real experience of exploration and adventure. People just need to realize that and not just be waiting for endgame. If that is the case they should go play WoW. GW2 is another level of quality.
I really like the exploration and such, so I definitely got all those mastery points overtime :) It's more the ones that require other game mode; I preferred before when I could do my thing and still progress even if infinite skill points definitely missed the mark in its own ways. I just wish masteries was a bit more like that, less finite locations and more a mix of rewarding locations and an over-time aspect that eventually leads you to max them anyway, in your own way of playing.
Agreed with everything apart from removing account-bound masteries. As someone who doesn't get quite as much time to play as I would like, I'm not forced to endlessly repeat the game's content. So if going into raids and fractals, or visiting Bitterfrost Frontier required me to complete a chain of masteries for every character to get the most out of the experience, I wouldn't have enough time to play the the content I most enjoy.
honestly the mastery would have been better as a optional benefits for making exploration easier. However, it did not go that way and Mastery was made into a requirement to explore into areas instead being new means to reach a location through alternate and easier means such as unlocking hidden paths and such.
Each explorable location could have had a Non-Mastery route to reach that location being the difficult route but basic route to go through in the start while the Mastery Routes are easier and provide some access to hidden secret locations and lores that can only be seen in the Mastery Route to reach a certain location.
Masteries could have gone in maaaany directions. I don't think the system is irredeemable at all, but I think they have a lot to hammer out to make me love them.
there is one thing i do disagree with tho. account bound masteries. sure it MIGHT bring constant progression on each character, but in the end it just the same leveling anyway.
It#s the nature of the beast that is the problem here. character based masteries would have sucked so massively for players who do not log on every single week or day but only every two weeks or more. but in the end either acount bound or character bound at one point people would have been done with them and there STILL would be a time where people do nothing do gain more mastery.
and then come the implication for things like raids.
BOY would that build a giant wall for casual raiders, specially if they would become more you wish them to, ways to work around raids in a different way, mostly make them easier with each new tier of mastery.
it would hurt raiding so much as it would require one player to level up raid masteries on several character before he can even go attempt to raid in a pug.
yes i know established groups are A solution to the problem, providing the constant role in the group, but who other then very dedicated guilds do have that?
having a group is a effective but lazy excuse to get around something, that technically allows solo/pug engagement of content.
at that point raid masteries would require to be not as essential to do raids, like they are right now.
Pro account bound masteries! I have 19 alts and i think i never would play they if i do have masteryfarm for everyone again.
Norwolferus 19 alts? wtf? Go get laid son
I can see your point with masteries, how they should be character based, and in a way I can completely agree... but I know personally if that were the case, if say arenanet were to release a new map today, that required me to need maxed gliding, mushroom bouncing and a brand new mastery specifically for this map. The likely-hood of me jumping on one of my many many alt characters to play the new content, or a main character who has already unlocked 2/3 masteries required... I would probably never go back to play any of my alts. Having to go back and re-earn all those masteries again just to play in this brand new map, just wouldn't be worth it to me, and then would be restricted to playing only one character in this map as all the others would be locked out. Part of the fun in playing my alts, for me, is not having to worry about if I have gliding unlocked or am I able to reach this area I need to get to to get this item or achievement on this newer character. I might be sick of playing an elementalist and want to play a guardian or warrior, something different to change up the play style, and then have the issue of oh, I need to re-unlock 4 masteries in order to have fun in the map I want to go play in.... that to me does not sound like fun lol
Just like you can level the character up by clicking consumable items (tomes, etc.) same could be done for masteries. Those who want to power level would do so in 5 min, those who want a deeper experience would do it the hard way.
It's worth getting into again (I have a f2p account with a lvl 80 character) and buy hot? I mainly do PVE and a bit of PVP
Every time I get a friend into the game and they reached Verdant Brink for the first time I go and join them. I help them with events, show them around, explain some of the more obscure parts of the map meta, etc, and one thing that sticks out every time I do this is just how big of a difference masteries make in getting around the map, because I'm forced to stay grounded and follow a friend who can't glide as far as I can and who can't follow me up mushrooms or through wallows. It's a hugely different experience, and it makes me think that people who say that masteries are only gating systems and don't really change the moment-to-moment gameplay much are just forgetting their first time through the jungle.
On the one hand, I would honestly love to have the chance to go through that journey again with a new character, experiencing the maps from the ground again before getting back into the sky, but I also have a dozen alts, and after the first few times having to regrind masteries would probably be a huge deterrent to actually playing them. I enjoy taking a fresh alt through the jungle doing the hero challenges and unlocking my elite spec every time I do it, but going through what amounts to the entire expansion experience again for each character? Several of which I try to give equal attention and always keep up to date? That would, at some point, become a detriment to my willingness to play those characters and thus the game. I'm not sure exactly at what point that would be, but I would eventually hit it.
The only real problem I have with masteries is what you made very clear: most of them are just boring. I don't care quite as much about the in-universe flavor like building your own glider or whatever, but so many of them are just completely pointless or so mechanically boring that they might as well not even exist.
About getting the masteries. Here is my story. I was an active player at that time so that was not a problem. However, I did not like the big mass events in HoT so much (this is something to keep in mind).
I completed the first map completely, then I did go into the second map and completed that as far as I could, however I could not complete it all because by the time I had completed what I could, I did still miss masteries required to unlock the rest of the map. So I did go on to the next map. There again I completed everything I could but was not able to complete everything because of missing masteries. I also still had nothing unlocked needed to complete the previous map. The next map on the list was not even a real map but basically one big event. There where some small fun events in the world I could still do, but they did not really draw my attention (partly because they where not available all the time, and getting tagged all the time while on your way there is also not fun).
The result was that I did go back to the vanilla maps and mostly to the guild-hall map. But there I did not get any new masteries.
Result is that after multiple months I still had no new masteries and till this day (have not been very active in the last year) I still don't have more masteries and are not able to complete those maps. The solution would have been easy, grinding the events, but I simply did not feel like doing that, and you play a game to do something you do like, right?
So while the idea was nice the implementation was horrible. Once you completed a map you should have unlocked all the masteries needed to completed the next map and so on (Maybe that works now? But thats to late). Now 'completing' a map can be a bit fuzzy, when do you complete a map? Again the lack of traditional quest are the real problem here (not the lack of xp / points). Completing a map basically means going to some locations. A traditional quest system where some quest where required to complete a map would have solved the problem (Example of how it should have worked with a quest: You need to do specific challenges to open a specific door to a new area in a map, meanwhile you earned the masteries you needed behind that door).
Maybe I made some bad decisions, not leveling the masteries I needed but some that I liked. However, if you design a map so you need to unlock masteries in a specific way then they should also make the masteries unlock in that same way.
I have a silly question. How did you get the percentage in your health bar? Is that an add-on?
hey, out of curiosity: what do you think of how the mount masteries were handled in pof? i personally had a lot more fun collecting and experiencing them this time around, and have a much greater appreciation for the features they provide
what set do u use on ur charr thief? he is amazing!
is ur charr female?
Hey dude, just wondering. Do you record with OBS or another capture software?
I think it would be too annoying to have to relearn all the masteries every time i want to make a new class for raids, or even fractals. Finding all those mastery points the first time was kinda fun since I get something I've never had before, but if i have to do it for all 9 of my characters it would be painful. They could have made getting the specialization a bit more involved instead, for example requiring to do each meta event once.
I remember the first time I walked into Verdant Brink. It was launch day of the expansion. Everyone and I had to walk the paths without a glider. We had to do the dragon egg event without gliding or mushroom jumping. This mean we the players had to do the event like a jumping puzzle. The event is trivialized when people have the masteries. This is an experience that can never occur again. I remember reading some complaint about the map being too hard to traverse without masteries. I on my thief in its full berserker armor had some trouble but not so much that I would complain about it. It didnt feel as unforgiving as the Ping pong between mobs that occurred with original release Orr.
One of my biggest complaints about the mastery system is what happens to exp when have maxed out the lines. Before there was a minuscule reward for refilling that xp bar. It was a nice thing that occurred that probably won't happen again.
I actually find this game cool and interesting, but would you recommend me getting into it now, considering it was released in 2012? Any info on GW3 or something like that? Also I've heard people say it kinda feels like a dead game lately, or that it needs some new interesting content to keep you there. Some opinions/advice? Thanks
What if they added an option that would allow you to optionally switch a character over to personal masteries that train faster, instead of using your account's masteries?
I'm one of the guys who are short in Mastery points. No problem in gaining the experience but I can't seem to get some points. So, any advice on how to complete all the points? Where to find and get them?
Do adventures, metas, and explore all the areas of the maps instead of rushing!
Though I don't agree that changing Mastery grind from account to character bound would be a good thing (especially with the daunting task of progressing 20+ toons). I do agree that there is a need for masteries to be more relevant.
What I'd love to see is mastery points and their associated capabilities being implemented like GW1 attribute points: you can only use X number of points at a time, limiting the masteries your character has while making decisions on which to use more strategic and relevant to how you play.
Something that I dislike about masteries is that if you are out of points you waste experience. This is especially compounded in HOT where if you have everything fully completed and you haven't unlocked the raid track as you don't raid, you waste experience. For a new player getting all those HOT and central tyria points is daunting and by wasting experience if you lack the points it forces you down the route of a pretty intense achievement hunter. Make masteries hard to get, that's fine, but don't punish players for not raiding and not being achievement hunters
In the same way, new players waste all experience they gain between reaching level 80 and starting Heart of Thorns. This encourages skipping large parts of the personal story (which admittedly could be argued is a good thing because it's shit) and the entirety of LS2 just to gain access to masteries and stop wasting exp. I believe if HoT accounts could start earning Core Tyria mastery exp directly after hitting 80, without starting Heart of Thorns, that would be less of an issue.
Or just simply have all experience go towards spirit shards if you can't unlock the mastery for whatever reason (out of points or don't have HOT). That will at least remove the feeling of having to rush to get them so you're not wasting experience
We've made a lot of comparisions between max level and Masteries already, so I feel like the best solution is to test Masteries like Levelling and give the players the choice on how they want to pace the accquistion of Masteries for Alts.
With levelling, while your first character will likely mostly be levelled organically through playing the game, after playing for even a short while you'll gain enough Tomes Of Knowledge to reduce the levelling time of your 2nd character significantly and all veteran players can easily have enough Tomes saved to bypass levelling entirely on any new characers.
Some people now skip levelling. I'm not one of them and even though the option is there to do so, I level up all my characters naturally.
I think a simillar philosophy with masteries would work best. It should be character bound, but with some means to make to make the progression a lot quicker or bypass it entirely on alts.
Are they still going to make new expansions for gw2? Or is there going to be a gw3 sometime? Gw2 is one of the best games I have ever played but sadly I lost interest in it and I can't really find reasons to start playing again. I guess that's mainly because I only played wvw and pvp. Rarely pve until HoT(which was really fun in the beginning) but I lost interest in that too. So are they working on anything else or nobody knows?
expansion 2 is TBA for this year. They have been working on it for a long while. Rumor has it that the coming weeks will give more information about it.
If mHoT was fun in the beginning, just playing trough the living story releases at launch might be an idea. A lot of people (including me right now) do it.
To a certain extend the glider skills in Bloodstone Fen were tied to the mastery system, in order to buy more advanced glider attack skills you needed the corresponding tier of glider mastery, though most players probably never saw the gating as they had maxed glider mastery far before reaching Bloodstone Fen.
I think the solution to Masteries not feeling like good progression (as in not actually making your glider, languages etc) can be solved by quests. Not quests like most MMO's where you find 5 wolf pelts or whatever, that's what hearts are for. Spend the Mastery Point for Itzel Language for example, and a lone Itzel whose taken a liking to you approaches, teaching you rudimentary words and the like. From there you can be sent around for cave etchings, books, whatever. In the end, it'll basically be the same effect (a new vendor and being able to understand the Itzel npcs) but the way an unlock is delivered can completely change "That's it?" to "Oh, that's pretty neat". Not to mention the potential for world building by just involving the world in a simple way.
ConchyJason and they showed they could do things like that with some of the living world "quests" we have. maybe they will do that...
ConchyJason in essence you are saying that spending a mastery point, or "similar" unlocks a collection, then completing the collection grants the associated mastery. which, very early on, I thought they would do; leverage collections with the mastery system and the elite specialization system to provide "quest" content to make progression feel meaningful.
Actually, though I didn't really go into details because I wanted to stay focused, I really don't want Collections for this sort of thing. You're right that it's basically a collection at the end of the day. But I don't want something buried in 3000 achievements that just has icons of trash items I picked up.
I really believe that the delivery can make all the difference, and there should be a dedicated quest panel/journal for just this kind of story content. I don't need any voice acting, just some kind of blurb describing the quest/results etc etc. Similar to the way the Personal Story journal is, but hidden like achievements (no obnoxious PS tab on the top of the UI).
For example, lets take the Ley Line Anomaly current event from a while ago. Have the way it plays exactly the same, but instead of unlocking a collection, it has it's own section in the Personal Story tab under "Side Tales". This tab already has the ability to update as you complete stories, as well as to account for goals being met outside of instances. I believe it can account for item pick ups as well, but I'm not sure. To me, being able to see it as a side quest when I receive it, as well as being able to reference back to it is leagues better than the Collection Achievement screen of a bunch of items. But the end result is still the same.
I first thought of this when the Current Events came out, so I'd probably need more thought into how it'd interact with the Mastery system as progression as opposed to stories. But it's all just random thoughts and not actual game design, so I'm sure folks can imagine it without me going off in another paragraph. Also, I know this is a crap ton more work than it sounds, in case anyone comes along to give me shit.
ConchyJason sure that would be great but it's a new feature system they would have to build instead of leveraging existing systems it's not optimal but probably more feasible, actually not even feasible if you look at how legendary collections needed to be abandoned. And the most frequent type of collection added is "get all the skins"
Great job on all the videos!!! I agree with most of the things that you've said. Let's just hope that they will focus more on deeper and better mastery lines in another expansion or LW. Again - thanks for great content :)
I've played a lot of a game called Warframe in the past, and their levelling up system seems like something that could be implemented into the GW2 mastery system. In order to level up there (gaining a new tier in your mastery) you would have to enter an instance and complete a trial. In that game, it would be shooting targets and doing parkour, but in GW2 it could be to complete a gliding track which requires the new mechanic, or an arena where you have to challenge, and defeat the nuhoch champion.
Actually getting experience from fractals wasn't introduced until months later with the first fractal rewards overhaul as fractals were giving ~6k exp per completion (close to nothing)
wp are you gonna cover pvp and wvw in the upcoming videos? just asking :3
I am, but probably not in as much detail as I think a lot of us are looking for. We'll see how we do.
even so, it would still be interesting to watch for me. :)
I can't help but agree with you on account binding the mastery system, being a mistake.
However I do think you come down on the system to harshly at large.
Yeah sure there are some masteries for all purposes, that have practically no value to them what so ever.
But like all new systems implemented initially its going to naturally stumble while trying to find its footing.
I think its honestly to early to have an overall opinion on the system as a whole, and ride it off as a failure.
ArenaNet have time and again shown they have an amazing capacity to learn from development mistakes very quickly and do indeed listen to their player base on ways to resolve problems such as these.
Maybe I'm being to optimistic, but I do genuinely believe we will see a more refined version of the mastery system come next expansion.
I love getting so many vids from you :D
This was worth the wait
I dont have enough thumbs to give i need more xD
I kinda agree with character-bound masteries, but ArenaNet would need to be very careful to balance the amount of work needed to earn a mastery the second time around. Maybe the first time you do one it's like normal, but then you get an account-wide 'Mastery Mentor' buff or something so that any other characters on your account only need, e.g., half the XP to unlock it. It could even be a stacking buff, so that the third character needs even *less* XP to unlock it.
Wow. Firstly, kudos to you for really diving into this topic and explaining it so thoroughly and clearly. Very well done!
I also found the masteries far too quick and arbitrary to complete. Not as much as you, perhaps, but I had spent about 1 week in each of the HoT maps for exploration, learning the meta, and finishing most achievements. Before the end, I had all of the masteries done. I was a bit eager to finish the gliding ones especially but didn't find any of it particularly challenging or satisfying.
In my opinion, masteries should have been acquired through gaining experience in the relevant location (such as it is) and completing associated objectives. Funny that you bring up the Bloodstone Fen merchant. I recall thinking that something like this idea would have been great for VB and gliding. Wait, don't kill me! Just... Imagine if you gain your exp while scavanging for airship parts throughout VB and return them to a pact vendor who is an engineer that has been building fleet airships. Their knowledge of flight and aerodynamics allows them to use the supplies you gathered to build your first glider. Ding, first tier of gliding done. The rest would be mastering this glider in a variety of other situations. Not that all masteries should start at a vendor, but I liked the idea of npc integration and a tie to the map to earn such things.
Masteries should be diverse experiences that put you into relevant situations to improve your skill in whichever line you have chosen to train. And they should absolutely be character bound.
I don't believe that they should be particularly difficult to obtain (maybe similar to getting lvl 80? If that...) but I think they should be used in difficult situations to ensure success much how like gliding is tied to the Mouth of Mordremoth event, for example.
I think one way they can improve on the mastery system in future expansions is to make it so future masteries must be discovered first before they can be trained. You still keep the required mastery point requirement and exp requirement, but now you need a quest to be completed in order for it to appear in your mastery list. This allows Anet to force you to experiencing a map as a danger or that "metroid" experience.
You forgot the aggrivation of having to complete all masteries to continue gaining spirit shards or just have the xp wasted if you don't have the points to activate a line once filled with xp. or have yet to beat a raid boss to even open that section
semi related what do you think of them adding infinite repeat lines that require no points just fill with xp and activate to gain thugs like spirit shards or other things that you can choose to train at any time once you hit 80
How much I would love to discuss these things with you experiencing all these things as a relatively new player.
In my opinion, If you would make the mastery system (we have today) and change it to a 'character bound' system, then you get an annoyingly grindy system that punishes playing more then 1 character (imagine needing to get all the mastery stuff 3 years from now, with no clear indication as to what zone belongs to what mastery tracks). You would need to 'grind' out the mastery points for each character and then get a LOT of exp. to get all the mastery points. You would risk people ignoring most of the masteries altogether because most of them are useless but somehow still feel like a grind to get.
I'm not saying 'character bound' would be a bad thing, but they would have to rework the whole thing. The whole idea that your character learns how to glide by doing stuff that has nothing to do with gliding is stupid anyhow. How about maybe adding an (optional) quest system to unlock stuff? I would love to have it character bound if it was something like this:
An npc from your order giving you a quest (yes making orders feel useful again), finishing that quest would mean they teach you how to glide, or they help you learn the itzel language, etc... HIde a few items on the (new) maps, or find an asura doing doing research in a specific place teaches you the 'Nuhoch Alchemy'; befriending the itzel and they teach you the 'Nuhoch Stealth Detection' (meaning you have to figure out their language first), etc...
But instead we got a grindy system filled with a lot of useless junk that you most likely won't need anymore once you have all the gliding stuff.
Hmm I'd never thought about the account bound masteries like that before but I think you are 100% right. Nice video.
I feel like they wanted a sort of overarching progress for "the expansion" and then character progression separate from that, and they decided it should be masteries and elite specs respectively. The reality is that elite specs ended up being pretty basic to unlock especially once everyone knew the maps and there were trains being lead, and also because they cut the amount of hero points you needed in half like a day or two into the expansion so you barely had to try to max out your elite spec. You can skip any of the hero points that are too challenging or hard to get to.
Hi WP, thanks for the video! It brings up a weird feeling having someone pull the mastery system out from under the carpet where we swept it but its definitely worth shining light on in the hopes that it'll be improved.
In regards to the "grind" and the "account bound" aspects, I would not have minded at all if it WAS extremely hard to complete the entire system on a single character. I would have loved that extra layer of character customisation.
"I'll hop onto my Warrior who has maxed out weaponsmithing AND maxed out legendary crafting masteries to work on getting a legendary"
Or "I'll use my Mesmer who has 100% world exploration done to learn language/lore type masteries so that I can interact with all the unique NPCs, vendors or lore rich areas scattered in obscure locations."
Or "My guardian who only ever sees play in WvW will delve done into some sort of mastery for WvW content"
My issue with masteries is that I was expecting them to have progression to them, instead of being "find this specific chest/spot and commune with it" or "get this achievement", for example with gliding, why do i not get better at gliding FOR gliding? so starting out with the first level in gliding you can glide, that's it, no maneuvers or anything special and that's what i felt like i was getting into when i loaded HOT for the first time, instead I was confronted with an achievement grind with some being tied to exploration. i didn't feel like i earned anything i just walked up to a marker, pressed f and i was done, of course i can see why they didn't tie it to actually doing the thing you want to master since implementing that with the exalted masteries would have been difficult. Although i did find it humorous seeing people who couldn't do certain events because they didn't have the poison resistance i feel like they should have made all the core parts of each mastery unlocked when you get the first tier, and then it builds upon it, so for example with the poison mechanic, you have a limited resistance to the poison, meaning that it's not going to just kill you for entering it instantly, but over time, making you play around it, but the more time you spend inside the poison the more attuned you become to it meaning it deals less and less damage ending with you becoming un-affected by it, *Mastering* the poison.
Just my thoughts at least. but i'd agree the core tyria masteries are just kinda tacked on and in my opinion should have just been added to core tyria anyway or had some meaningful perks to them instead of "haha +insignifigant percent of movement speed but ONLY in major cities where way-points are free anyway and the buff was already obtainable by NPC's within the city"
@ 18:14 "This suuuuucks." Loved it. Beautiful. Ten out of Ten would watch WP again.
I have to admit I was surprised when I swapped toons and found that masteries were account bound at HoT launch. Having to go get masteries in itself creates content. I have an alt account which I enjoy playing just as much as my main because of this feature. Having to go to SW or do TT etc is fun when there is a reason to do them other than just the loot.
I never found it to be much of a grind, i didnt specifcally go out to max my masteries straight away as i knew the xp would come anyway through just doing events and casually exploring the world. Just a side note on masteries, its all a bit confusing on the regions now especially with LS3 ones technically being magumma...but at the same time set in regions like the shiverpeaks and ring of fire. I hope they add more interaction with the actual world map and tidy it upa little. Maybe they could add more interactivity and being able to highlight certain zones etc...just a minor QoL that could help some people.
Should be interesting to see if some of the HoT masteries come into play in the next expansion though. Afterall, people with future expansions should get previous ones (make sense when you consider the account types are in a hierarchy and you can't really split up people who have Expac 2, not Expac 1, expac 4 etc). Maybe we will see gliding in some form on new maps but its just not the focus for this region, afterall you wont be able to train it in that region.
I thought the language stuff could be intersting but i dont know how we could have really gotten into this. I didn't mind that any xp contributed to a track but they could have perhaps given bonus xp for certain things. Doing Itzel events could add on some extra itzel progress et, doing fractals gives bonus fractal xp.
Im still getting through the video so thought id spit out some initial thoughts.
I was waiting for this series. Can't wait for next ep. Apropos this ep I really would prefer to get masteries again (character bound). Maybe not the max ones...because it was a pain to get points for them. They would have to change the way to get extra points after getting the map ones i guess... but it's too late for that. I really love HoT and wish it was perfect... Hmm but tbh they added huge changes to core game at beginning so why not to do this it expansion? We'd have to learn everything again how stuff works how it was with core but hey! Maybe that would make hot much better and more loved.
When I was working on my legendary crafting masteries, it actually added a bit to my experience.
It added quite a bit of furstration, because it forced me into content that I had trouble actually doing, such as scheduled events like Triple Trouble, or trying to solo the random spawn bosses in SW. This is because it was my last track, and therefore my sources of points were getting sparse.
However, it also added the feeling of actually doing those things. The last point I got was from the third head of the triple trouble wurm, and as such I was quite hyped when we got that kill.
I'm not a typical player though; I really don't like achievements in general, and I usually can't be bothered to do content unless I can do it at a time when it suits me.
Introducing a solution to this account-bound/character-bound mastery quandary: The Grandmastery!
The Grandmastery would be a mastery line allowing you to share masteries across all your characters.
Let's say the XP requirement for completing it would be insanely high - an equivalent of finishing all masteries across 4 characters. But, with each step you would get some bonus experience towards the regular expansion masteries on your alts.
If you have 3 toons you play regularly, maybe it's better for you to unlock the masteries individually on each one. Any more toons than that, you're probably tired of doing everything all over again, so you can instead put experience into the Grandmastery. AND this mastery line could be deactivated at any point, so fanatics like WP can experience the metroidvania feel again on alts.
A good video with fair points specialy about the masteries. Keep it up!
Hey WP when Areanet first started talking about masteries didn't they say something about being able to rip off bark of some of the creatures in the jungle?
Yeah that was a proposed mastery that never made the cut
I wonder why, that sounds like something that a mastery should be. Allows one to over come an obstacle more easily because they have fought them so much they know their weaknesses. Do you think we could see something like that in the next expansion?
Also thanks for the reply.
There's probably some sort of weird story element I mentally add to it that I enjoy in regards to account binding the masteries. In my mind I've banded various characters I've made into sort of groups not unlike a Destiny's Edge vs Dragon's Watch sort of deal (with a few pocket pairs and singles for flavor) and I guess I like the thought that my primary character paves the way for the other's in both groups (and friends/allies) to gain prowess and jungle smarts/abilities. Then again I like to imagine him as a crafty and ingenious fellow since he's born and raised in Iron Legion. He likely figured out some rudimentary glider builds, consulted with his human engineer buddy and they compiled both their thoughts into better and better versions. Probably checked with the asuran elementalist and maybe even my sylvari necro about the shrooms and whether they'd be useful or kill him. I have no doubt my norn thief was deeply involved in dealing with stealthed enemies so that sniper mordrem can now die by the hundreds if not thousands by any of their hands. Maybe not the coolest of reasoning behind why everyone can do the same things, but it's my reason.
I can definitely understand the allure of going through it a couple times as there was definitely fun in deciding what to progress next because training this one might lead to points towards another, or it might lead towards collection items for the elite spec ascended weapons. However I sure as hell wouldn't go after that Verdant Brink insight hiding at the end of the crash ship JP again. Granted it was probably made harder by doing it with a charr (and I'm just about convinced he doesn't jump at times purely to spite me), but even if that was the only point left that could finish one of the masteries on another character's progression through them I would skip that one. I felt proud as heck to get it, but once was enough for me. I will always enjoy how the masteries helped the player obtain further points down the line though be it reaching new places or giving you abilities even in adventures to help make them easier. Was totally blown away a couple weeks back when I wasn't insta-dying left and right in the charr car race one to the point I actively drove through bushes before the wiki told me it was thanks to poison lore. I still wish poison lore dealt with some of the clouds tendrils chuck, but hot damn it sure saved me some sanity getting at least bronze for the engineer's elite spec collection.
Watching it in 2022! Great info, great channel!
100% agree. When I compare how I imagined the Mastery System to be and how it ended up I also feel disappointed. That may in parts be my fault for letting myself getting hyped but is also due to ArenaNets perfectionised ability to make there new stuff sound much more epic then it actually is. I just remembered watching the HoT-Reveal-Presentation and hearing something like climb to the highest point of the map which is the flagship of the pact to earn yourself the ability to glide .... I just thought that you would complete an epic adventure throught the whole map to actually find that dam thing in the flagship .....
Nevertheless, in theory I think the Mastery System is quite cool and easily surpasses the old leveling systems. Not only does it make the need for upscaling/downscaling obselet, as all maps would have roughly the same power level and you get that masteries to propagate further into the dephts of a specific region. (Which btw makes adding new races much easier as you do not need lowlevel-tutorial areas). But you can also customize the way your Character progresses depending on race/class/background and even tie it to the lore.
Just image how cool it would be instead of just "leveling up" your Sylvary you actually work to fullfill your Wyld Hunt as a Mastery Line. Doing specific Story-Steps and Challenges (like killing a specific boss) to earn "Wyld-Hunt" Mastery points and getting some cool, fitting passive effects for each steps.
As a person who did not experience Living World Season 1, and had to purchase living world season 2, and has gone through a lot in HoT some six months after it came out, and quite enjoys fractals... I wish I had a surplus of mastery -points-. I would say I 'like' grinding, because then I'm going around and exploring the map, participating in dynamic events and it's not a hollow 'for the loot' thing, it's ... progressing a little yellow bar down the bottom of my screen towards a Reward. As such, I have struggled, quite extensively, to get enough mastery points to earn new masteries. I'm currently sitting on no less than three maxed out mastery point chains, where to claim that item as having been mastered, I need to go out and find those mastery point insights, to commune with places of power or to do my head in to get one, single, achievement that is preventing me from getting the mastery point for the whole collection ("I found it!" Tequatl, I'm looking at you!) or to gain the mastery points there is no pattern to follow in an adventure, there is No Way you can get those acheivements without a ridiculous amount of luck and skill memorisation and getting nauseous from spinning in circles (Shooting Gallery and Fallen Masks). And a lot of that is ... It's not ... -engaging-. I'm not going back and doing these things because I'm curious about them or I enjoyed the adventure or the collectionist in me is going 'must have all the shiny!' it's ... I literally need to do these things. It makes the game less 'fun' and more of a chore. Since I sink multiple hours into getting one (or two oooh) mastery points and ... it's ... not as much of an incentivized reward? So at the same time, from this perspective, I am super glad that I don't have to go get the mastery -points- again. It's ... complicated and complex and masteries could be better, or at least, the points be slightly less of a headache to get. I would love to see some of the RNG based adventures replaced with a "Murder this Thing" mastery point gathering, like with certain hero points where you're taking on a champion whatever. Then you felt accomplished on completion, rather than relieved because "I'll NEVER HAVE TO TOUCH IT AGAIN."
Full agreement on the inability to repeat the Mastery leveling! I didn't give it much thought when I went through it all on my main, but now it would be fun to go back and experience it again ... but I can't :-(
I didn't even realize it until now (even though you've talked about your opinions on masteries a few times) but I genuinely don't care about masteries anymore. Originally I had strong opinions about masteries: that they should feel more engaging to get, that they should be arranged in a tree or circle so that it's possible to add stuff like the Bloodstone Fen gliding skills and not have them require the entirety of the previous gliding line. That they should be more interesting and relevant (the fuck does the Exalted mastery line even do, it's 100% irrelevant), that I was disappointed I completely missed out on collecting Core Tyria mastery points because I retroactively got more than I can ever use.
I just don't care anymore, because it's not content. Masteries don't exist for me, not anymore. I did disagree with you on the past about character-bound masteries but I realize now that making them character-bound is the single most important thing to save the system, to make it actually be a system again.
Unfortunately I think that existing Core Tyria and Maguuma masteries are forever fucked. Their mastery points are rewarded by achievements (even the ones in the open world with map icons just complete an achievement) and those cannot ever be repeated on another character. Mastery exp could be character bound but ANet will (rightfully) never risk the unfortunately inevitable shitstorm that would happen if they resetted a current character's mastery exp. There is still some hope for future masteries, that those will require character-bound exp and will grant their character-bound points like Hero Points instead of achievements, but I doubt they'll want to split the system that way.
Interesting thoughts! And yeah, I said it a few times in the video but I regret not stressing it more: People just don't care about masteries anymore. They came and left. I really think that's a shit thing to look at.
Masteries would have to be actually interesting to be worth grinding it on each character and the ones we have are definitely not, not even close.
Now that they have tried "traditional quests" in current events, i think they would be a GREAT fit to tie to masteries and elite specialisation tiers.
They could give you additional lore, more feeling of actual progression and content while at the same time also guiding you trough the open world.
I hope they'll do something like that for masteries in the future. Becoming weh no su or ascended in GW1? Now thats a mastery.
I was short on points with masteries and here's why: I never really liked the HoT maps much, so I wasn't really inclined to explore them. I focused on raiding and unlocking elite specializations on alts, so I got plenty of xp without "rushing", but eventually, begrudgingly, farmed the points so that I wasn't locked out of raiding content.
Problem with making the masteries character bound is that, while it may work well in the short term, if they continue the mastery system into the second expansion it would be a lot to make up on every character. And if you're someone like me who is an altaholic and likes to have characters prepared for any occasion it would be quite the grind doing both regional variants. I do agree that a lot of the skills are lacking flavor though.
Never liked how they were not account bound myself, and did not enjoy the Mastery as it was laid out. As you said Wp with certain story held behind mastery points it triggered alot of anger from the more casual base that is honestly is 90 if not 95% of GW2 player base.
I think a split between personal and account bound masteries could work. See, I like to be able to rock a Level 1 and begin gliding immediately. Basic functional stuff like that I'd like to see stay account bound. What I totally would not mind is personal masteries requiring less experience to unlock, but having to be completed on multiple characters. It gives you something to do and re-earn after hitting level 80 on every alt.
It would be a very hard sell to the masses though; all the players who want everything for no effort. Imagine the number of times Colin would be quoted on his sword swinging statement.....
Even Bitterfrost Frontier is "Maguuma Mastery" area
i would be ok with non account bound mysteries IF we could keep the points (aka just get exp) because i hate most of the stuff to get the points (also would merit more people doing meta events in the HoT maps)
Then implement a prestige system that would allow you to get them over again for AP and/or map rewards
I think some kind of prestige system for masteries (start from scratch / do it all again / get a shiny new mastery symbol or something) would be a better thing to implement than character binding the mastery system. Being forced to experience it again in order to hit the new bar with an alt would probably make me neglect my alts much more heavily, maybe even entirely.
A completely re-imagined system might be able to get away with something like that, as you suggest. As it stands, the mastery system certainly does deserve some adjustments and improvements, I just think it should be more structured as an optionally repeatable endeavor rather than a mandatory progression hurdle for every single one of your toons in order to get them up to snuff / able to access all content / raid-worthy etc.
I know i'm a very very small section of the community that likes this type of thing but I do wish the itzel and nuhoc language masteries had been more involved. maybe having made it into a type of mini game using cyphers or something. I love it when i'm in the open world and see a book on some random shelf written in new krytan and want to know what it says. I remember one of my best feelings of personal accomplishment was few years ago in super adventure box of all places, in the now unaccessible genie room. I took the time to translate his text letter by letter and got that wonderful feeling of 'aha!' now i know what it says. If i recall didn't gw1 have a type of number cypher you needed to unlock charr battle orders in the ebonvanguard part of eye of the north?
core tyria had a bunch of heart quests where you are mixing concoctions and what not, could have been a neat way to introduce poison mastery. in your exploration of the jungle you could come across certain items that might be used in creating an alchemical potion that you could take to a frog guy and try and figure out the right combination of making a permanent tonic that makes you immune from then on.
gliding mastery I always thought it would of been fun to talk to a vendor (after you learn the language) and he could kinda give you guidance on finding the right type of wood, leather, etc to craft your first glider, maybe a type of soft gating system where as you go up through the tiers of gliding you learn to use better materials that effect the capabilities of the glider, almost like the legendary system but way easier/cheaper?
just my random thought would are very null at this point. Here's hoping for a better upcoming expansion.
also I understand how the character bound masteries is fun, but still glad they are acct bound ;)
Core Tyria masteries are effectively unavailable to be completed unless you purchase LW season 2. There are 49 points needed, there are 67 available, but at least 17 are locked up in season 2. Meaning you must get all but one of the available points. The most likely candidates for that are the rare collections where you have to spend almost 700 gold to get all racial armor unlocked or getting all the gold fractal weapon skins which I haven't even looked at the cost of.
I always had a hard time getting the mastery points because I'm really anti social. I got all the ones that I could solo. The ones that require dungeons, raids and fractals, I still don't have, and likely never will. I did pull together enough green masteries to unlock everything I need in HoT. I do wish that they would add more PVE type red masteries. Though using them for the legendaries is wasted on me as the steps require fractals.
A good solution would be having mastery points be account bound, but mastery experience be character bound. This way you only have to do the hard, achievement based tasks once, but still got to progress and build your alts in different ways later.
As someone who only got the HoT during last summer, i'm suffering with getting central tyria masteries QQ
OH I just remembered, does anyone else remember something along the lines of a mastery that you could use to man spearguns that could shoot Wyverns out of the sky or something? Or am I just imagining cool ideas for a mastery? I swear the developers talked about that as a mastery and then it was never brought up again
WP the big issue for me on masteries was lag screwing me over while doing the adventures, scrap field test. shooting gallery and fallen masks are good examples of how lag can seriously make it harder to get silver and gold
I think this is more appropriate for the section on adventures :D
I honestly am still hoping that they'll make the language mastery happen, letting us explore more lore about the Exalted and the various Nunoch and Itzel tribes hanging around there. I hope they'll take this approach when they're designing the second expansion. That said, you don't even need all the masteries to be useful/skillful in traversing the jungle. For example, the leyline area in Auric Basin? Reached it without that one particular mastery, it just took me waaaay longer than it would've taken me normally. But I was impatient to get Ydalir and wanted to challenge myself instead of gaining large amounts of experience. I think that, down the line, the masteries aren't bad, but have been poorly executed and have not lived up to the promises. However, as I don't play everyday, nor do I play for several weeks at some points in the year (and with me many more), I'd much rather stick to the whole account bound thing. I do agree that exploration of the jungle needs to be incentivized, for example: give us things to do at mastery point locations. Events, or little puzzles or something that will reward you for going there. Lore for example, that is really what I'm hoping for next expansion.
Thank you for wording it properly. I've been feeding the videos to a main topic on the forum, lots of people agreeing, and naturally a lot of people disagreeing with you.
They could have account bound and character bound masteries kept separate. So autoloot and such would be account bound, but the fractals, gliders, etc character bound. Lower the exp threshold, let you reuse masteries per toon, etc. And ensure that the Masteries are not required for most things.
Character bound Masteries could've worked. But they had to find other ways of aquiring some mastery points then (the ones through achievments). And maybe cut the XP required for subsequent alt's in half (before the XP buff from maguuma mobs)
My problem with masteries is also that I hate that I can't unlock the "raid mastery track" since I don't raid. Thus I'm locked out from gaining spirit shards in HOT maps QQ. I probably wouldn't even use them when I had to ability to gain them in HOT maps (I already have a crapload), but it just feels unfair that people who do not raid are left out of gaining them in HOT maps. Maybe make it so if you have no active mastery track you automatically collect shards.
Thank you WP!
They made me feel like I was crazy when I talked about the "PC bound masteries" topic on the GW2 Facebook group.
At least now I know I'm not alone in the craziness.
It looks like people don't play games because they enjoy playing games, they just enjoy to reach the goal: the faster, the better. And if you don't have to do it for all your characters, from their perspective it's even better.
I totally share your disappointment.
I think that masteries should be as the name implies, something you master. mastering how to use a glider makes a lot of sense, but mastering how to trade with frog people is a huge stretch of the term used and should really be based on completing quests or similar to really make them feel in keeping with the game. once again a brilliant video. Although I don't agree with all you say I do love the way you put them together. keep up the good work.
One year later, Path of Fire AND HoT maps are still packed with MP trains almost all day long. Would be a total NIGHTMARE to do map metas if the masteries were character tied.
I agree that an oportunity was missed with the glider construction, would have been a cool quest. Hey made a similar mistake with the mounts on PoF, the quests could have been more focused and detailed.
All in all, I still prefer account bound masteries.
In fact, I would love (and I'm not alone in this, mind you) to see the waypoints also account tied. I have 11 characters max level, fully ascended geared with a few legendaries mixed in, working on legendary armor. Sometimes I'd love to take a different toon to a map to farm, or hunt a collectible or something. It's a pain to see that I didn't unlock that way point on that specific character. So I have to swap tons and get the same one I have map completion with.
I agree with a lot said here, but I cannot agree with your last point. I am a fairly casual player (I tried raids and it was really unfun for me) who plays a lot. I have 3 characters who I spend a lot of my time on and a bunch of other ones I hop on every now and then. If the mysteries were account bound they would either be unnoticeable on my mains for how quick they'd be to get or I wouldn't got into HoT areas with my alts.
I think what you look for in mastery aquasition can already be found through the unlocking of elite specialisations, it would be even better if they made more of HP required with more spots to get them, but make them soloable.
I totally agree! I remember really looking forward to my new Gliding Skills! I think they should have made them more visible and harder to get, so u really have to specialize in some way. Maybe they should even do some kind of class specific masteries. The System isn't real progression because u need it on the one hand to be able to play new content at all and on the other hand it's "normal", it's nothing special about them because the only really cool and visible things were the Gilder/Mushroom Masteries. The others didn't made anything useful in my opinion.
wait...what map is it you're running around on? i've never seen it :o
and as a returning player - that has returned months/years (when was it released? i dove back in about 2 months ago) after HoT was out and the hype died out - i found it rather tedious to grind the required masteries because i always seemed to be alone. there was nobody around to help me with elite events or events that just overwhelmed me by the shear amount of mobs that always pulled when i pulled only 1 or that patrolled into the fight after a while. neither can i get a lot of the skill points because the mobs on them are elites and nobody is ever around. so i got disheartened and stopped running around after i completed the story line. i found the jungle almost as bad as orr when it comes to trying to stay out of combat and not dying when you wanna walk around.
i'm at mastery lvl 6...even the rest of the world is dead...maybe it's the server i'm on? europe itself? the game in general?
I do not want to have to unlock all the mastery points 35 times....yes I have a problem...
I think the mastery locking for story could have been a good idea, had it given more natural growth. At first it's good, making you get a point in each mastery teaching you how the system works you know, then bam get the max level of the mushroom one. If they had done something like, oh get the level two mastery, then level 3 etc. would have been a much better flow
Im a long-time player and I really enjoyed the masteries in all its forms. I feel like some of your points on this video are mostly nitpicks and I don't think I agree with you on the majority of your points, but nevertheless I found it refreshing to get this alternative perspective. Very good quality video, Keep it up WP!
Now that I have all the Masteries (minus the Raiding ones) completed, looking back I still would have wanted them to be Account Bound. It would have sucked to have to relearn auto-loot on each of my alts. I barely play those characters and it would have required a certain investment of time on each alt just to play at the same level for basic things as my main character. Perhaps if I was an overachiver in the game and played much more, I could see it worth my time. But this is Guild Wars 2, the casual MMO.
I remember when I first tried a free account when Guild Wars 2 went free to play. I did this despite already having paid for the game. This is going to sound absurd but it was so fun being able to earn those achievements again. The account binding of achievements sorts of kills the game's replayability. As convenient as account wide unlocks are when making a visually attractive alt, there is very little rewards otherwise. What is the point of looking cool if there are no more adventures left to have once you've achieved/unlocked everything.
I don't wanna have to clear masteries on all of my alts because I don't want an endgame on all of my alts. It was fun on my main, but I don't wanna redo it. I have other things to do than relearn exploration habits on every character. They're not just a number, and when you are accustomed to playing a certain way, you don't want to be back to step 1 on another toon.
you've genuinely persuaded me. I'm kind of sad I won't be able to experience what you were able to in regards to masteries..
It'll be back for a flash in a pan with the next expac at least
I saw some footage an realised some of the stuff I the trailer looks completely different like tarir....
While, most of your points do make sense, I honestly don´t understand your point on masteries being account bound. I mean, your point on commune points is really good ! Those were places cool to get, like mini jumple puzzles, worked in a way like vista's and were really fun to do when I first experienced those maps. But that's not an excuse at all to make masteries character bound. I think that system should be a new thing entirely.
Having masteries character bound goes against everything what Gw2 is about. I don´t want to start a new character and not having gliding on it because I didn´t farmed the masteries yet. That sucks. Just like it sucks not having waypoints available on new alts if I already discovered them in other characters. You mention adventure games and that sorta thing, but adventure games don´t have anything else and you will be done with them in 60 hours, sometimes even less, to only come back (if you come back) years later just to remember. Gw2 is not a 60 hour game.
I think, masteries should be more interesting and meaningful, and more interactive, but I believe that should be made, for instance, like you said, having you craft your own glider, experience bars being higher and having the effects being more interesting.
Is players having max mastery points really that common?
My father and sister also play the game and they, and several others have complained about losing interest in the game and being extremely frustrated with the CENTRAL TYRIA masteries.... they're too difficult to get which has left them at a level where their experience no longer counts because they can't level up.
I think it's great that this encourages people to experience new areas of the game like fractals but I do agree with them in that the CTMasteries are just too difficult and there aren't enough ways to acquire them.
Easiest middle ground: have a special mastery tree for each profession woth the best story content they have to offer, unique to each one. But not elite specs. Like about being a thief or about being a revenant.
I'm a new player so idk if that exists woth unlocking elites already but I mean true story, events when you feel like a thief among thieves or a revenant learning about your lore
Masteries should have been split up, and i hope they are for future expansions, some account masteries (legendary crafting, raid masteries, fractal masteries, autoloot for example) and some character bound masteries ( stuff like gliding, jumping shrooms, language masteries, stuff like that.) having it one way or the other is just binding yourself to a standard wich is not needed. It could be done like this: green masteries are ones like we have them now, you can get mastery points for them trough achievements in HoT and they affect the entire account. Yellow masteries however, are character bound, mastery points are available trough world exploration. They affect character specific skills like gliding and jump shrooms. The only thing to worry about with that system is not using the personal masteries in the raid, or having a raid mastery that makes it so you can use all the personal unlocked masteries you at least unlocked once on all characters in the raids.
I honestly think masteries can be a great system, it has the potential to be, they just need to not be affraid to make it complex like that.
Yeah. The mastery system is at it's best when it lets you master new abilities like gliding that slowly lets you get access to new parts of the game. I agree that the account binding is a mistake. It may seem convenient but as you say, it's comparable to only having to level 1 character once in the entire game. It becomes content that you do once and then forget.
do you still think it's a mistake?
I totally agree with your stance on account-bound masteries. However, I am totally confident that had the devs split them into character-bound instead, they would have had to drag the majority of the playerbase kicking and screaming. Most people will always choose the most convenient option.
Tons of good points brought up in this video. Cant help but agree with the fact that, knowing how little so many of the masteries actually felt like they mattered, I would've absolutely just skipped them/"got them for free" if possible. The Zelda comparison definitely made sense there.
In fact.. I cant think of a single memory in game from the times farming exp or achievements for the masteries and this was around the HoT release where I played the most with friends. Shame really, they could've made a bigger impact than they did.
I personally dont feel any incentive whatsoever to even get the new masteries on the new LW3 maps. With that being said though I have truly enjoyed my time on those maps, masteries and time/value set aside.
I agree with the fact that the masteries should be character bound, but that would then have to change how you aquire the mastery points (most are from achievements, which cant be replayed). How would you suggest they make this change?
Isabel Ryborg My idea: the achievements Mastery points you collected are usable on all your accounts, only the communicate ones need to be Done on Every single character. (Or the adventure points and the story have to be redoable again on every single character something like that)
The only real indicator for prestige in Guild Wars 2 is achievement points. It displays how long you have played and how much of the game you have played, as it's impossible for newcomers to catch up instantly (rough said), as a lot of the achievement points require you to be a veteran (dailies).
As someone who doesn't play the game very much (compared to a hardcore player), unlocking all of the masteries on every one of my characters would basically make them not worth pursuing except for one character anyway, meaning it discourages me from using my other characters. Although if they were less grindy I don't suppose it would be as much of a problem.