this is the future what we are seeing here, imagine when mac releases M10 most probably Macmini is going to be the answer for PS6, they need to work with game library and more developers.
because they run windows. So you have a higher compatibility. There is a major flaw. It delegates half the performance, So if you have a mac machine with only 8gb ram you'll have 4. Which is substandard. But crossover uses a form of linux which a unix system so it translates alot more smoother than windows virtual machines. If you have a machine with 16gb or more then parallels or vmware might be a better option.
@@SuperBarnab I believe they're pro using app converters vs virtualization with < 16 gb RAM bc as they've stated VM on Mac divide or cannot access all the resources available. The crossover (or converters) are using SW "magic" to better utilize all the available resources. But, they've listed a caveat, if your Mac has > 16gb RAM then Parallels or VMWare (VMs) might be better because teh amount of resources is still limited but 8-16+ gb RAM is well enough.
I tried all of this out as well and will say that making something playable, doesn't mean it is going to be fun. Especially the input lag is horrible. Fluctuating fps between 20-40 fps also isn't a good time. I love the M4 Mac mini and its' native apps and abilities. Retroarch and other emulators are making use of it. I wouldn't bother with the Crossover Windows side of things down the line apart from making a very old turn based game playable for example.
so heres the real question mate what if u installed cross over >>> steam >>>half life alyx VR >> connect meta quest 3 to mac , could that theoretically work?
It works fine with older games and esports titles, of course its not for competitive types and big AAA. I run a load of older stuff I enjoy to play regularly, still got my big PC desky for serious stuff, but its nice to not have to turn it on if I just want to play a bit of elite dangerous.
on the point. probably best video about gaming on macs I have seen so far. looks like for casual gaming it might be enough. I was planning to buy a console but I will give my new macbook a try first. what would you say
The only Mac I used for gaming was the 2019 i9 macbook pro with radeon 5600m. It was compatible with windows and I can play 3A games smoothly at least in the same year (2019 with DMC5). I still use it today and macos 15.2 isn’t really that bad on this macbnook pro.
High polling rate mice are perfectly okay with Crossover; Mac OS itself is capping the DPI for larger movements due to the default acceleration curve. It's incredibly dumb. To fix, you need to install a utility like LinearMouse to either disable mouse acceleration or set a custom acceleration curve (with no DPI cap). Side note: I did a bunch of testing with CS2 launch options with an M2 pro and an M3 and posted the results on Reddit. Most of the launch options are placebo or have been addressed in Crossover's CS2 bottle config (for example `-nojoy` is the go-to but that hasn't done anything for a year at this point). `cl_forcepreload` seems to be the game changer right now but CS2 is still quite choppy under any setup.
Even with linear aim, I still wouldn't recommend CS2 on Mac OS at all. A steam deck LCD for $300 on eBay has miles better input feel when using a mouse, all because of the lag introduced from the translation layers on Mac OS.
Great Review & i wait for 2 more gen for mac then i will buy for games and productivity till then i will stick to my gaming pc till then let see what future holds for mac
You mentioned certain tweaks for games and crossover but how did you find the correct tweaks and plug-ins that you need in order that you need to put them in?
What about running some native windows based benchmarks for comparison purposes... see how it stacks up against the latest intel cpu's albeit with emulation.
I think with where technology is today, 60 FPS consistently, should be considered the minimum for gaming. Anything below that I would consider not playable.
do you reckon the games will be able to use the maxed out m4 pro mac mini? it's not gonna work unless you can be competitive in multiplayer games - cs2 input lag sounds bad too
So that amazing mac gaming is actually linux alike and requires far more tweaking just to get you going. I don't really see the point. All in all another influencer machine for rendering and video editing. Ah forgot you have apple arcade that the type of games this machine can play really well.
i have a basic mini. I put my windows steam install on a fast USB3 SSD. The mini via whisky and crossover plays a load of games fine. Obviously its GPU is not as good as my PC desky with its big ARC A770, but it plays most of my usual games just fine. I just turn stuff to medium and it chugs along ok at 1440p. I mostly play older games and the M4 CPU is huge overkill. More demanding stuff runs fine, I just drop it down to 1080p.
Wait how can you play all that game ? What is crossover ? I can’t even play counter strike or diablo 4.. what do I need to do in order to play all these games ?
It's a software you buy that will basically emulate windows software on mac. Issue is that its very $$$. Basically $100 a year for the subscription. The price alone for me
Thanks for the vid 🙏 I’m considering buying a Mac mini however I have a cracked version of FL studio for Windows and I am wondering if id be able to use this crossover thing to run my cracked version of FL studio. Thank u🙏🙏
$75 per year subscription. That's a pass for me. Better to just use the money and save up to build yourself a PC as well or get like a steam deck. The price is way to high for me. If you want a gaming computer get a PC.
I know your experience is valid but, at least so far, my experience with crossover has not been good. Steam will not run and although I finally managed to have the Rockstar Games launcher open, as soon as RDR2 get to about 20GB, it stops downloading. Do you have any suggestions?
It's not for gaming. If you want a gaming beats go for custom build PC or wait until apple make their MacOS suitable for gaming. It's a game changer for productivity based work without gaming.
I have a Mac Mini but it sits on top of my PC which has a NVIDIA 4090 graphics card in it so I don't bother using it for any gaming. The 4090 is just better for every single game.
@Cytygdgyff I don't know 5000 series but I have 3600ti and you can play anything at 1080p in full settings. I have 2K monitor and the GPU can do it awesome. So I guess 5060 would be the equivalent with less consumption. And 5060ti would be a 2K killer.
By the way, the best Mac/PC monitor is actually an LG TV. I use a 55” LG EVO 3 OLED TV and it has a native refresh rate of 120hertz, which is just enough for 4K gaming.
@@deyh5664 I've heard about dual-booting Windows back when Mac had Intel CPUs, but honestly don't know if Windows 10/11 would run on a Mac processor. It would be nice to have that flexibility though.
@ I don’t think it matters though, there are lots of loaders, I actually run windows on an external HD connected via TB, and set startup disk to it then restart, works great:
I wonder how a Linux based distro like Bazzite would run on this or if it can. Bazzite has all the Steam / Proton compatibility layers that make the Steamdeck run PC games so well on it's limited hardware. If Bazzite runs on the M4 with whatever Vulcan graphics are enabled - I think it would be an incredible couch/console like experience. Especially since Bazzite is designed to be run with a gamepad only.
The best solution for Mac owners is… Xbox Gamepass ultimate or Nvidia ‘s equivalent. Buying a Mac expecting to play something meaningful is nonsense. When Macs were x86 and had Windows x86 natively, then people could have (if they had a dGPU). But since the ARM shift and no bootcamp is allowed to AT LEAST run W11 ARM, then no solution is ideal. People are even better off buying a Mac mini and a Xbox/PS…
Why did you buy it for gaming ? Everybody treating the Mac Mini like it's a gaming console but it's a mini computer that can dabble in games but not made for that
There is just no SDK to work under Windows. And yet we have Linux SDKs and even for Playstation, it's just that Apple are insolent. So you could ask me why we don't code on Mac, it's trendy among young coders, it's simply because the machines we need would be way too expensive with the custom specs we need. A PC is easy to assemble, and it doesn't cost a fortune. And then.... 1.32% of Steam players are on Mac... it's just not worth the cost.
I have the Mac m4 . Jesus ! its not the whole grail of gaming like people make it looks so lmao . The gpu is as powerful as a very old gtx 1060. Launched like 10 years ago . The cpu is powerfull but the gpu is very weak. I played dota2 at max at 1440p and I was getting around 70 fps but after 20 mins the cpu temp went to 105 degrees celsius and because the GPU shares the same die as the cpu it started throttling . I hope no one believes the apple silicon with the cpu and gpu on the same die is some kind of amazing gaming console . Its not. It's as goof as 4 generation back of low tier Nvidia gpu cards .
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I've been playing Windows games via Parallels on my 2021 16" M1 Pro for 3 years now. It's nothing new, and it works really well.
Aren‘t most games compiled for x86?
Have you played valorant on it?
bro do you play cs2 like that? does it run well?
this is the future what we are seeing here, imagine when mac releases M10 most probably Macmini is going to be the answer for PS6, they need to work with game library and more developers.
@@TechGameDevcope
We have always wanted that for apple, never got it.
@@deyh5664 more AAA ports are coming every year and tons of indie games
@@deyh5664i think it’s coming. better they do
lol never
Bootcamp is not virtual machine. The popular virtual machine on Mac OS host are parallels desktop and VMWare Fusion.
because they run windows. So you have a higher compatibility. There is a major flaw. It delegates half the performance, So if you have a mac machine with only 8gb ram you'll have 4. Which is substandard. But crossover uses a form of linux which a unix system so it translates alot more smoother than windows virtual machines. If you have a machine with 16gb or more then parallels or vmware might be a better option.
@@SilverSheild I didn't quite follow, which tool/ways do you recommend using to run windows games on the mac mini?
Why complicate things with virtual machine if the mac can run games using vulkan on steam.
@@SuperBarnab I believe they're pro using app converters vs virtualization with < 16 gb RAM bc as they've stated VM on Mac divide or cannot access all the resources available. The crossover (or converters) are using SW "magic" to better utilize all the available resources. But, they've listed a caveat, if your Mac has > 16gb RAM then Parallels or VMWare (VMs) might be better because teh amount of resources is still limited but 8-16+ gb RAM is well enough.
I tried all of this out as well and will say that making something playable, doesn't mean it is going to be fun. Especially the input lag is horrible. Fluctuating fps between 20-40 fps also isn't a good time.
I love the M4 Mac mini and its' native apps and abilities. Retroarch and other emulators are making use of it. I wouldn't bother with the Crossover Windows side of things down the line apart from making a very old turn based game playable for example.
I just bought mine and I use it with my 100 inch Samsung QLED smart tv with my Harman Kardon studio 2 Bluetooth speakers it’s awesome! 😻
Could you share the launch commands and a full guide to running CS2 smoothly?
library > csgo > properties > general > launch options
-nojoy -noclip +fps_max 0 +violence_hblood 0 +mat_disable_fancy_blending 1 +r_dynamic- -softparticlesdefaultoff +cl_forcepreload 1 -limitvsconst +mat_queue_mode 2 -disable_d3d9ex -r_emulate_g
so heres the real question mate
what if u installed cross over >>> steam >>>half life alyx VR >> connect meta quest 3 to mac , could that theoretically work?
To be honest, you’d probably need a higher model than the base or a custom Mac with a lot more RAM
It works fine with older games and esports titles, of course its not for competitive types and big AAA. I run a load of older stuff I enjoy to play regularly, still got my big PC desky for serious stuff, but its nice to not have to turn it on if I just want to play a bit of elite dangerous.
on the point. probably best video about gaming on macs I have seen so far. looks like for casual gaming it might be enough. I was planning to buy a console but I will give my new macbook a try first. what would you say
You can always get a second hand Xbox series S. Just make sure it hasn't been console banned by Microsoft before purchasing.
Great production and great way to demonstrate
The only Mac I used for gaming was the 2019 i9 macbook pro with radeon 5600m. It was compatible with windows and I can play 3A games smoothly at least in the same year (2019 with DMC5). I still use it today and macos 15.2 isn’t really that bad on this macbnook pro.
I love the dramatic power on sequence 😂
this is seriously freaking uber awesome and im so happy i can run some of my favourite indie games at least on my macbook air, thank you Andrew ! : )
Just buy a windows machine with strong cpu lol (if that's what you bought the apple for). It works 100 x better.
@@deyh5664 He doesn't only want it to game though..battery life, portability...
Crazy video man!
High polling rate mice are perfectly okay with Crossover; Mac OS itself is capping the DPI for larger movements due to the default acceleration curve. It's incredibly dumb. To fix, you need to install a utility like LinearMouse to either disable mouse acceleration or set a custom acceleration curve (with no DPI cap).
Side note: I did a bunch of testing with CS2 launch options with an M2 pro and an M3 and posted the results on Reddit. Most of the launch options are placebo or have been addressed in Crossover's CS2 bottle config (for example `-nojoy` is the go-to but that hasn't done anything for a year at this point). `cl_forcepreload` seems to be the game changer right now but CS2 is still quite choppy under any setup.
Even with linear aim, I still wouldn't recommend CS2 on Mac OS at all. A steam deck LCD for $300 on eBay has miles better input feel when using a mouse, all because of the lag introduced from the translation layers on Mac OS.
I use cursor sense for this which works as well.
Great Review & i wait for 2 more gen for mac then i will buy for games and productivity till then i will stick to my gaming pc till then let see what future holds for mac
The M2 iPad Pro does well at AAA games. I have an Xbox controller for it and a 240 HZ curved monitor. I’m getting a keyboard and mouse today. Awesome.
My favorite games, Canon Strike 2 and Stto Corsa
I never thought a Mac Mini could handle Windows gaming. Will definitely consider trying this setup. Thanks for sharing!
canon strike?
Have you tried a Mac friendly 3rd party mouse like from Logitech? I use the same Logitech mice on both my M4 Mac Mini and my windows gaming PC.
Crossover is similar to proton for steam?
Going Mac and apple this year. As a newbie
Yup, even apple porting testing tool doing the same using wine then translating to metal or vulkan to metal.
i booked mac mini m4 pro 48 gb ram. excited
You mentioned certain tweaks for games and crossover but how did you find the correct tweaks and plug-ins that you need in order that you need to put them in?
Normally i use my Macbook air M1 to play Rimworld, heart of iron 4 and dave the diver, all work great
What about running some native windows based benchmarks for comparison purposes... see how it stacks up against the latest intel cpu's albeit with emulation.
I'd be curious at how much power the device pulls during a big game.
20-40w
I have just gotten the m4 pro which comes with 24 gb memory, I'm guessing the performance would be better for me then?
Which game controller is that?
I think with where technology is today, 60 FPS consistently, should be considered the minimum for gaming. Anything below that I would consider not playable.
Just get a geforce now ultimate and enjoy 4k 120fps on any device.
Can I use Any of these methods to play Warzone.. I've heard that their Anti-Cheat system bans you for virtualizations
Perfectly playable CS2 at 60fps? for a good experience you need a stable 200fps without stuttering...
do you reckon the games will be able to use the maxed out m4 pro mac mini? it's not gonna work unless you can be competitive in multiplayer games - cs2 input lag sounds bad too
Not if you never own a 4080S. It will be. 😂❤.
So that amazing mac gaming is actually linux alike and requires far more tweaking just to get you going. I don't really see the point. All in all another influencer machine for rendering and video editing. Ah forgot you have apple arcade that the type of games this machine can play really well.
What mac is he using? M4 Mac mini 16GB Ram and 256Gb storage?
i have a basic mini. I put my windows steam install on a fast USB3 SSD. The mini via whisky and crossover plays a load of games fine. Obviously its GPU is not as good as my PC desky with its big ARC A770, but it plays most of my usual games just fine. I just turn stuff to medium and it chugs along ok at 1440p. I mostly play older games and the M4 CPU is huge overkill. More demanding stuff runs fine, I just drop it down to 1080p.
I want to give this a go but is crossover stable to use for a m1 MacBook?
Yes. I’ve used it for years
Wait how can you play all that game ? What is crossover ? I can’t even play counter strike or diablo 4.. what do I need to do in order to play all these games ?
It's a software you buy that will basically emulate windows software on mac. Issue is that its very $$$. Basically $100 a year for the subscription. The price alone for me
Thanks for the vid 🙏 I’m considering buying a Mac mini however I have a cracked version of FL studio for Windows and I am wondering if id be able to use this crossover thing to run my cracked version of FL studio. Thank u🙏🙏
Doesn’t crossover cost like $75?
$75 per year subscription. That's a pass for me. Better to just use the money and save up to build yourself a PC as well or get like a steam deck. The price is way to high for me. If you want a gaming computer get a PC.
@ exactly how I feel
I don't get it whats this windows compatibility layer ?
Link to this? Is this a wine or?
crossover is a package that uses wine.
I would buy it if CSGO 2 would run natively. It is the only game I play so...I stick with PC, is much more powerfull.
Same, i want a macbook and the only game i play is cs2 lol
If I heard again about Resident Evil 4 i will start scream ..... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
try helldiver 2
Can you run Red dead?
Windows should make new Bootcamp.
Who is Windows 💀
I know your experience is valid but, at least so far, my experience with crossover has not been good. Steam will not run and although I finally managed to have the Rockstar Games launcher open, as soon as RDR2 get to about 20GB, it stops downloading. Do you have any suggestions?
What version are you using?
Use Whisky
yeah use whisky
@@stefansigmund1822 whisky is outdated compared to Crossover. It uses an older version of wine and gptk
@@stefansigmund1822 It also can’t use DXMT
Can I use my external ssd with crossover if it's format is APFS?
yes
Well 40-30 FPS and low 20 FPS...thats not playeble for WuKong.
Razer dav3 default designed at 4000hz polling rate bro. What a wast
Does anyone know Why when I try to Play a online game like apex or rust it tells me that crossover is a cheat
How about MSFS 2020 0r 2024?
Apple is not for gaming. They lag behind in that area
Wukong should not be able to run on a $500 Mac 😵💫
Its not great but the fact that it runs is nuts. Once mac releases a native mac version it will be even better. Cyber punk is also coming native soon.
Apple is not for gaming. They lag behind in that area
Mac(book) + PS5 Pro for the win baby
Is the step in the right direction!!!
at this point just buy a msi raider, under 2000$ much better, and install macOS on it with WSL (docker osh)
All that money for 40-60 FPS
Beats just about anything in productivity, yes it is not good for gaming but it’ll get there :)
It’s not a gaming device so obviously it’s not going to do well, but when it comes to litterly anything else it beats everything in its price range
All that money? It’s $500. People have tried to build a comparable pc for the same price and can’t. And this is through emulation, not native. 🤷♂️
GeForce now and you have 240fps
It's not for gaming. If you want a gaming beats go for custom build PC or wait until apple make their MacOS suitable for gaming. It's a game changer for productivity based work without gaming.
im not gonna spend that much for 30-50 fps on heavy gaming experience
Hope you can also test Dota 2. I know it's a decade old game, but I heard the high settings when playing it on M4 Mac Mini is not good.
Good make new video on same topic
I have a Mac Mini but it sits on top of my PC which has a NVIDIA 4090 graphics card in it so I don't bother using it for any gaming. The 4090 is just better for every single game.
And also 4x the price but to each their own
The 3060ti is million times better than any Mac M4. You don't need 4090.
@Cytygdgyff I don't know 5000 series but I have 3600ti and you can play anything at 1080p in full settings. I have 2K monitor and the GPU can do it awesome. So I guess 5060 would be the equivalent with less consumption. And 5060ti would be a 2K killer.
Cs2 Runs like crap through parallels
please send to description Counter Strike 2
Love apple but 600$ will get me a good console
By the way, the best Mac/PC monitor is actually an LG TV. I use a 55” LG EVO 3 OLED TV and it has a native refresh rate of 120hertz, which is just enough for 4K gaming.
somebody tried cs2 in bootcamp on m4 chips?
i wanna know to. lmk if u find out
Wouldn't you just run Windows on the M4 on a separate drive and avoid that hornets nest?
I did not even know that's possible lol. I can buy an external drive and install windows on it and run it while connected to the mac mini?
@@deyh5664 I've heard about dual-booting Windows back when Mac had Intel CPUs, but honestly don't know if Windows 10/11 would run on a Mac processor. It would be nice to have that flexibility though.
@ I don’t think it matters though, there are lots of loaders, I actually run windows on an external HD connected via TB, and set startup disk to it then restart, works great:
only way to have Windows on a Mac hardware is a virtual machine (Parallels, VMWare Fusion)
I wonder how a Linux based distro like Bazzite would run on this or if it can. Bazzite has all the Steam / Proton compatibility layers that make the Steamdeck run PC games so well on it's limited hardware. If Bazzite runs on the M4 with whatever Vulcan graphics are enabled - I think it would be an incredible couch/console like experience. Especially since Bazzite is designed to be run with a gamepad only.
I wonder why FPS games like Farcry call if duty don’t port to mac
Because people want high FPS. Macs can give that.
bootcamp is not a virtual machine. it runs windows natively on the Intel chip.
The best solution for Mac owners is… Xbox Gamepass ultimate or Nvidia ‘s equivalent. Buying a Mac expecting to play something meaningful is nonsense. When Macs were x86 and had Windows x86 natively, then people could have (if they had a dGPU). But since the ARM shift and no bootcamp is allowed to AT LEAST run W11 ARM, then no solution is ideal. People are even better off buying a Mac mini and a Xbox/PS…
Just like Apple dominate mobile gaming I predict they'll do the same to the pc gaming market over the next few years .... just watch
don't game on a Mac.. I regret buying. should have bought a windows. there is sooo much lag
Why did you buy it for gaming ? Everybody treating the Mac Mini like it's a gaming console but it's a mini computer that can dabble in games but not made for that
Definitely not kn a M series Mac😂 The 2019 MacBook Pro is really good for most games.
Apple should buy Rockstar and make GTA6 a mac exclusive
Is it a device playable for GTA 6?
There is just no SDK to work under Windows. And yet we have Linux SDKs and even for Playstation, it's just that Apple are insolent.
So you could ask me why we don't code on Mac, it's trendy among young coders, it's simply because the machines we need would be way too expensive with the custom specs we need. A PC is easy to assemble, and it doesn't cost a fortune.
And then.... 1.32% of Steam players are on Mac... it's just not worth the cost.
didnt look amazing to me
If you want to play with computer don't buy mac mini or all apple products its that simple
But for casual gamers, it's nice to know they have options!
Nope.
no
I have the Mac m4 . Jesus ! its not the whole grail of gaming like people make it looks so lmao . The gpu is as powerful as a very old gtx 1060. Launched like 10 years ago . The cpu is powerfull but the gpu is very weak. I played dota2 at max at 1440p and I was getting around 70 fps but after 20 mins the cpu temp went to 105 degrees celsius and because the GPU shares the same die as the cpu it started throttling . I hope no one believes the apple silicon with the cpu and gpu on the same die is some kind of amazing gaming console . Its not. It's as goof as 4 generation back of low tier Nvidia gpu cards .
I run a bunch of my older games and it drives them along ok. I don't get why anyone would think its like a 4090 lol